honestly, who cares what a guy in a cheap dime-a-dozen Mustang or Crapmaro thinks about you if he *might* win a 0-60 race? I used to own a 300ZX and now have an M3, and those Camaro guys constantly want to race and I just nod and go about my business. If I had one of the nice, new 350 Z's I would not waste my time on those type of cars.
By the way a guy here at work just bought one, and it's very nice, much better looking in person but has a smallish interior. Anyway, if I was a Trans Am/Mustang owner I would not come to this forum and brag about beating a new Z by a tenth of a second or so. A V-8 against a six cylinder, and all you can manage to do is *barely* beat it? Shameful.
Imagine if the Japanese decide to make a performance V-8? 8 against 8 I would put my money on the Japanese to win by a large margin. American cars are simply unreliable crap. Hell, the new BMW M3 has only 10 horsepower less than the Vette. The M5? More horsepower than the regular Vette. Anyway, I would not waste my time racing those
American F-Bodies/Mustangs because what kind of bragging right is that?
"Hey Joe, I beat a Trans Am today!" I REALLY dislike those cars, no refinement at all. A 0-60 race is only less than 1% of the time we spend in our cars, the rest is DRIVING so for me to put up with American bad reliability, rattles and shakes, all that exhaust racket, bad interiors and plastics, and the dime-a-dozen depreciation and satisfaction of owning a cheap vehicle that everybody and my Grandma owns, well it's not worth it just to say "I beat that Z car by a tenth of a second, but I can't corner worth a damn!" Those American Iron boys need to get a clue, it's not about 0-60. Hell, I bought my M3 so I could cut through mountain passes
with the precision of a surgeon, not for 0-60 races which are hard on vehicles. They can keep that. Heck, if your a good driver you can make up for that couple tenths of a second against those guys anyway!!!

You go man!!! He.He. I completely agree with you. My boyfriend has a '94 camaro and is thinking that he could beat a Z. I dunno, I think that the Z would do well in races, that kinda thing is fun for me. But you're right about the majority of American made cars, not all, but most are P.O.S. You have to drive a car for more than just racing. :smoka:

i own a 350 Z and i can tell you that this car will out perform almost any of the american v8s on the road. not only does it handle much better and get much better gas miles. it has a much sexier look than those damn mustangs that people by because they thing that they are getting a high performance car. if they were to drive a Z for one day they would most definatly change there mind about the hole american made only thing.

Hey Warped,
I'm still trying to decide whether to buy a Z or not. I've been hearing mixed opionions. Do you have any problems with the Z? Like maybe stereo or blind spots? Those are the most common complaints that I hear. :silly2:

Uh ZV3
Its not about 0 to 60 its about the 1/4 mile. its the rumble of a V8,not a 6 cylinder. Its the feel of pound feet of torque planting your butt in the seat. The loud exhaust ringing in your ears. If you don't get it you just don't get it. I drove a friend of mines brand new 350Z and i will tell you thats a mighty fine piece of machine they made. The body work,the wheels, the handling,the inside was awesome,all in all great car. I on the other hand drive a 2002 Trans Am WS6 LS1. Traded my 99 Camaro SS in on it. Mine 32k his 37k I love my car plastic and all. His didn't plant my butt in the seat, mine does. thats what i wanted thats what i got. i dont go lookin to race 350z's i want some competition like say a 03 Cobra,or a C5 Of course i had to add a little extra goodies like 3:73's a yank 3500 TC, SLP lid, loudmouth exhaust, etc etc etc but i knew that goin in. Its what you want from the ride. if you enjoy the Z thats great but no reason to put down f-bodies.:sun: Go ahead and dis the stangs though i'm all for that.

my 350z at the track ennis tx. 14.6 at98.7 a new ws6 13.5 at 105 new mustang cobra 2003 12.9 at 111. saw these times my self all stock and pretty close to road and track times and all about the same price. its all what you like.

i'll race anyone in any thing...i don't care...it's all for fun, when i'm lined up at the track with a vett or grand national or something, i know i'm gonna get burnt, but who gives a fuq really???

...comparing mustangs to almost any import is like comparing apples and oranges, they were designed for different purposes (in a racing point of view)...

p.s. why are you so pissed off at mustang/domestic car owners anyway? did something happen in your past that you would like to share with us?:rolleyes:

Thats right, dont bother racing an fbody because you know you will get your butt handed to you.;) In a sraight line that is.
Dont jump all over me , I am considedring buying a new Z and either keeping my SS or selling it. I really like the new Z's and since I have really got into auto x lately I think the Z might be a better car for that. I am really looking forward to seeing one at the auto x and see how they compare to my SS.

ZV3 you kind of sound like a sore looser.:p

Once there's an aftermarket I/E/H for the 350Z those f bodies are'nt even gonna hang in 0-60 let alone in handling.

Muscle cars and sports cars are apples and oranges. F bodies are great. American V8's have very flat torque curves which make them great for hauling boats, work trucks, even rockcrawling, etc. The new LS6 from chevy is a world class engine. There's a reason the vette is always mentioned in the same sentence as the high dollar sportscars. 1/3 the price of a Ferrari and can still hang... I have an old chevy 400 easily cranking out 425+h.p. with minimal $$ invested compared to what it takes to get power out of a smaller engine...especially high dollar import upgrades. I can pull my own engine, rebuild it completely, drop it back in, and have it fired up in a lazy weekend...or one day if I were pressed. There are advantages to antiquated american technology. Granted the LS1 engines aren't anywhere near the same as my old small block.

I'm planning to get a Z soon because for the money I think it is the best sports car available. If I get smoked by a F body oh well...I could hypothetically just go home, fire up the old chevy, and hope to run into him again. But I certainly will not belittle his choice of car because I lost a sophomoric freeway race to him. I know a guy who beat a Ferrari in an S2000! So you never know, the Z car might just spank the F body under the right circumstances and with the proper driver. But I will defend the latest generation of F bods as being very competent MUSCLE cars.

What's better.... a jet ski or a ski boat? Depends what you consider fun for the money. What's better...a sports car or a muscle car? I assume since this is a Z car forum everyone here prefers sportscars...but why trash musclecars? America makes the greatest straight line rolling missles on the planet. And I'm proud of all our long straight desert highways that let american musclecars shine in all their linear glory.

Moved to Car Comparisons; title tweaked slightly...

In regards to blind spots, it depends what kind of cars you've driven in the past. I've had Camaro and Ecli;se and the Z's visibility is about the same. But if you've never driven these types of cars it will be hard at first to bet used to it. Expecially backing up and lanes changes. So far I have 1100 miles on mine and I've raced a 300 ZX and two Mustangs on my brother-in law's and my boss. Beat all three. Not bad, I figure the car will get quicker once I have more miles on it. For those guys who like stop light races. Turn off TCS and lauch @ 1800 - 2000 RPM you'llget a little wheel sping on first and also when you first get into second. But you'll get those 0-60 in about 5.4 or 5.5 I mesaured by latter G got a .96 which is great on Pirelly P-Zero.

Careful ZV3...

You people are crazy.A Z WILL not beat a 2002 Camaro or Mustang or Vette.All of those would BURN the Z.I see you guys are more import freaks that are under the impression that they are the best.NEWS FLASH!!!:Your wrong!!!!!!!Dont get me wrong,imports are great beutiful cars and I love them but they arent the fastest cars on the road.

Since when was the Z an import?
It has more American than Japanese infulence in its design and enginering . :rolleyes:

Its not a Japanese car?

Originally posted by WakkaWu
Its not a Japanese car?


For it to be a Japanese car it would have to be designed and built excluisvly in Japan.
However much of the design and enginering for the new Z was done in the USA, the car was designed largly by Americans for Americans, and Nissan will be aiming to sell more in the US than anywhere else in the world.
Its like a lot of "American Domestics" are actualy designs from Ford or GM in Europe, and are made in Brazil, and the only conection they have with the US is that they are sold there. Yet many ppl still consider them "domestics" rather than "imports".
The whole distinction is archiehic, and should have been left in the late 70s where it had some truth.

big deal----the 350z without a turbo isn't going to scare any Eaton/Cobras----not the very least------specially when you open it up to slam down 500rwtq----needless to say, the 350z is pretty good------but pretty good doesn't put an 03 snake in your rear view mirror. The 350Z has a long way to go to put fear into any top dog. I love the carbon fiber driveshaft though. swap the gears though in the 350Z----and you have a sub 5 sec. car. Personally, 0-60 doesn't mean shit. 1/4 mile sprints are more of a tell all than anything---thats where power assessment has to be focused on.

Ah....classic argument with NO real winner....EVER. Oh well. I have a bitter hatred for muscle cars. As one post said....no refinement. However, it does come down to the tastes of the buyer. 5.4 0-60 is still REALLY fast....how fuckin fast does this famed stang that everyone is talking about go?! Can't be ALL that much faster! Besides...the Z is so efficient (did you know it's actually a LEV?...impressive for a sub 5.5 second 0-60 car...) that with a few mods, I don't think it would have TOO much trouble keepin up with just about anything you can sling it's way.

Another thing....1/4 mile races....never really understood em.....it's really hard on the car, it's so fuckin short...there's not much to it, really. Wanna race a mile race?

If you want the fastest thing on the road either A: buy a McLaren F1 (0-60 in 3.3 sec) or B: buy a super bike.

FUN FACT: The 1998 Mustang Cobra has a 0-60 time of 5.8 sec!!!....WORSE THEN THE Z!!!!! HAAAA.
Source: http://www.ventifrap.com/cobra/specs.html

The point is that the Z will not beat a Stang,Trans Am or Vette

is not even close. 5.4 is pretty fast----but a sad fast mark considering how close in price both the Z and 03 are. I have a buddy who just bought the G35 coupe----of which is very close to the Z----I've driven it on a highway----pretty quick------but not pretty fast. The 03 Cobra in stock form is still much quicker than the Z. Its the new Z06 running mate. The only reason previous Cobras just had no zip----is because they are all equipped with the lame as 3:27 gears. How the hell are you going to get anywhere fast with that rearend? Those cars were made for 4:10. and that 4:10 snake----still takes out the Z. But of course----there are many more ways to compare a car---other than straight sprint time----that much---I agree with you bro.:smoker:

u people are jus puttin a stock v-6 against a stock v-8!

what if u modifyed both of them......
i would have 2 go with the z cause in japan in 1 or those races where they put japs n american cars racing together the vq35dett (350zmotor) came in overall in 3rd place!
btw place 1 and 2 belongs to the supra!

wat im tryin 2 say is that once the turbo packages comes out for the 350z the will be a force to be recokned wit!

nuff said!
:sun:

But the Snake Vette and Trans all weigh much more than the Z.The Z is much lighter so the fact that its a V6 against a V8 shouldnt matter too much.And if you put 20 grand into both of them the Snake and F-bodies are still going to win.The Z has 287HP.Even with a turbo package do you think that it will beat the Vette which has 405HP,Snake with 390HP and Trans Am with 325HP?

a vq35de wit 20g invested into da motor can easily make over 450hp @ da weels
have u ever seen a tunned 300z
those have about the same motor except for sum minor changes.

so 20g into a 350z motor in a 350z and it will make 450+ hp no problem!!!!

Originally posted by sr20det2nr

so 20g into a 350z motor in a 350z and it will make 450+ hp no problem!!!!

Be fair here:
But 20grand into a small block chev and it will make a hell of a lot more then 450hp. More like twice that number.

450HP?I highly doubt it.Where are you getting your information?

Originally posted by WakkaWu
But the Snake Vette and Trans all weigh much more than the Z.The Z is much lighter so the fact that its a V6 against a V8 shouldnt matter too much.And if you put 20 grand into both of them the Snake and F-bodies are still going to win.The Z has 287HP.Even with a turbo package do you think that it will beat the Vette which has 405HP,Snake with 390HP and Trans Am with 325HP?

Wrong

The Z06 is actually lighter than a 350Z
According to Car and Driver the 350Z Touring weighs in at 3363. I weighed my my Camaro SS at the track and it came in at 3340. That was with the backseat and spare tire out of the car. I dont have the exact weight of the Vette but it is about 200 lbs lighter than a Camaro. The TA for some reason is a tank and usually comes in just above 3500 lbs.

Also the 2000 and up Vette, Trans Am and Camaro are also LEV rated.

The engine code on the 350 Z engine is VQ35DE, not VQ35DETT. TT signifies a Twin Turbo, like the VG30DETT as in the Z32TT (90-96 300 ZX Twin Turbo). We'll make all you mother fuc*ers eat your words now. When we get a Z33TT, you'll fuckin choke on em.

The Z will not beat a Stang (YEA FUCKIN RIGHT, MAN) a Trans Am (wrong a-gaaaaaaaain) is a fuckin joke. Me and my neighbor raced a 4.6L gt stang and beat the shit out of him in his GTA Trans Am. MY 86 2+2 beat that TA in any thing he threw about an hour and a half ago. So I can beat the shit out of a stock 4.6 Stang, and a Stock GTA TA. The Vette would be a good race....especailly if it's a Z06 against the new Z. The regular new skool vette starts at 43K. That's a lot more then the base for a 350....and a LOT more for the Z06. I actually like the new vettes. Beautiful cars. The Z06 is one BAD bitch too. They're just really expensive. Who'd win against a new Z and a Vette...a Vette. But they're more expensive too. If I got the Track Z (~33K) and dumped the remainder that I'd spend on the Vette into the Z, I bet I'd win...and STILL be a LEV. The TA, Cam, and Vette are LEV...where'd you hear that? No where on the Chevy website do I see LEV for the Vette. I'm too drunk to look for the Camaro. I'm goin to bed soon. The Vette gets 18/19MPG in the city....you're tellin me THAT'S a Low Emission Vehicle???.....................

I think the new Z would make a lot more then 450hp if you dumped that much into it. Saying you could dump 20K into ANYTHING is just dumb...I could probably dump twenty thousand dollars into a fuckin Dodge Caravan and make it pretty fuckin fast, man. That's just stupid. That's a shit load of money.

I cannot find ANY 0-60 stats on a 2003 ShitStain Cobra. If that's the car that I'm thinkin of, it is pretty bad. But it's, once again, more expensive.


I'm gunna go pass out now.

--Peace out, Yo.....

Dont ya love posting while drunk! :ylsuper :ylsuper :ylsuper :ylsuper :ylsuper

Well i would say 350Z versus the Mach1 mustang has been answered by Car and Driver. The mustang beat the 350z in a straight line but got wooped on the track.


I would suspect that this will be the result of most fights between 350Z and f bodies/mustang. The v8's will win hand down in the 1/4 but lose on a track to the fairlady.

American car engineering is just way behind the power curve. Honda puts out a 4 cylinder 2.0 engine that puts out 240hp. The same as a mustang gt with an engine over twice the size. Yes the Mustang has a lot more torque but at the end of the quarter mile track the s2000 will come in first every time. My buddies sentra se-r has the sr20det j-spec engine, on 10lbs of boost (just 2 lbs over stock) he's beaten almost every slowmestic on the street, to include the elusive corvette, no it wasnt the zr1 or the z04, but a corvette nun the less. At the track he has hit 14.6's consistenely (at lacr, considered to be a slow track due to elevation). He paid 1500 for the car and 2000 for the engine talk about bang for the buck. And there are lots of cars like theese. Unfortunately due to the High emmission laws you do not see the japaneese engineering, and when you do it is toned down and overpriced. However they lower the emission standards for those crappy suv's people like which I dont understand but that is another subject. Japaneese engineers make so much more power with less, If theese american engineers are so great how come they dont do anything big with a four cylinder or a six cylinder. I take that back the new svt neon that is supercharged is coming out, I admit that it is fast and cheap, but its competition is the subaru wrx and the mitsubishi evo which comes out soon and the evo puts out close to 300hp although rated at 280. You can say yeah but they both cost over 10000 compared to the neon, but that is because you got those crappy taxes your paying for because no one wants to buy american, and that is the only way they can compete. The six cylinder mustang and camero gets you nowhere fast, comparable to a stock civic in speed.
If I can keep up with you if not beat you in my 2.2 prelude that runs 14.9 na take out 4 of your spark plugs to make it fair (I'll let you pick.) And you'll see how fast your slowmestic will get you with an engine comparable in size to mine

Dont ya love posting while drunk!
You are very correct there.lol.

The Z will not beat a Stang (YEA FUCKIN RIGHT, MAN) a Trans Am (wrong a-gaaaaaaaain) is a fuckin joke. Me and my neighbor raced a 4.6L gt stang and beat the shit out of him in his GTA Trans Am. MY 86 2+2 beat that TA in any thing he threw about an hour and a half ago. So I can beat the shit out of a stock 4.6 Stang, and a Stock GTA TA. The Vette would be a good race....especailly if it's a Z06 against the new Z. The regular new skool vette starts at 43K. That's a lot more then the base for a 350....and a LOT more for the Z06. I actually like the new vettes. Beautiful cars. The Z06 is one BAD bitch too. They're just really expensive. Who'd win against a new Z and a Vette...a Vette. But they're more expensive too. If I got the Track Z (~33K) and dumped the remainder that I'd spend on the Vette into the Z, I bet I'd win...and STILL be a LEV. The TA, Cam, and Vette are LEV...where'd you hear that? No where on the Chevy website do I see LEV for the Vette. I'm too drunk to look for the Camaro. I'm goin to bed soon. The Vette gets 18/19MPG in the city....you're tellin me THAT'S a Low Emission Vehicle???.....................



Well duh,of course it will beat a stock Mustang.I know it wont beat the a snake though(Cobra)Yea,it would probably beat an '86TA but a brand new Trans Am?Wake up from dreemland dude.Your crazy.A VETTE AGAINST THE Z?Are you mad?The Vette wold BURN the Z BY FAR!405HP against 287HP?wow.Sorry but when your drunk then you almost dont know anything.

Ok people you need to be more specific. Not just say the TA will walk all over the z. Specify on what kind of race. I mean take a z06 and go rally racing you won't finnish 1/10 of the course with all 400hp. Just brute force won't be enough to win certain type or races there are many other factors.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WakkaWu .NEWS FLASH!!!:Your wrong!!!!!!!Dont get me wrong,imports are great beutiful cars and I love them but they arent the fastest cars on the road.

Maybe not the fastest but overall performance is almost always better on imports than domestics. Not to mention reliability and effeciency. Import engine design is light years better. I'd take an M3 over a Vette any day.

450HP?I highly doubt it.Where are you getting your information?

well in a super street issue the skylines at a big race in japan competing in the gt-500 class were powered by vq35 motors, they then twin turboed those motors so they are now vq35dett motors and to be in the gt500 class they have to make 500hp,...

..so there for i think you can get an easy 500 hp form a twin turbo vq35,

also the vq35 isnt that much different from the old vg30dett dound in the 300z n if u no about cars u know that those motors can easily but out 600+hp, now the vq has .5 more liters so there for i think that it can put out a little more then 600 hp, but only time will tell!!

:cool:

Not to mention reliability and effeciency

My family owns a mechnics garage and I can tell you that 70% of the cars that go into that shop to drop in new engines or repairs are imports.
:)


also the vq35 isnt that much different from the old vg30dett dound in the 300z n if u no about cars u know that those motors can easily but out 600+hp, now the vq has .5 more liters so there for i think that it can put out a little more then 600 hp, but only time will tell!!


But they dont even put those in the Z.Would more than 5L even fit under the hood of a Z?

im not sure but the vg30dett would fit in the 350z cause the vq35 is also a v-6 but then again the vg has a twin turbo setup so it might take some time fitting it....
........but i would rather take the money and work the 350z and twin turbo that motor!

True,True

THE 350Z IS A NICE CAR.FOR $34500 YOU GET 287HP THAT RUNS 14.4 1/4 @98MPH AND PULLS .88GS IN THE SKIDPAD.THE CAR TIPS THE SCALE AT 3370LBS.THE 3.5 V6 IS A NICE ENGINE.THE ZO6 COST $52000 WITH 405HP AND RUNS THE 1/4 IN 12.85 @114 AND PULLS .94GS IN THE SKIDPAD.THAT CAR TIPS THE SCALE AT 3118LBS.MY COBRA COST ME $34750 WITH 390HP AND RUNS 12.84@114 IN THE 1/4.THE SKIDPAD IS .91GS AND TIPS THE SCALE AT 3665LBS.0-60 TIMES ARE 5.8 350Z,4.6 ZO6, 4.6 COBRA.0-100 TIMES ARE 15.1 350Z,10.7 ZO6 AND 10.6 COBRA.TOP SPEEDS ARE 153MPH 350Z,168MPH ZO6 AND 155MPH COBRA.THE 350Z IS OUT OF ITS CLASS COMPARED TO THESE TWO AMERICAN CARS.ON THE TRACK THE 350Z WOULD NOT STAY WITH THE ZO6 OR THE COBRA.THESE ARE STOCK CARS FROM THE FACTORY WITH NO CHANGES.DON'T TALK ABOUT PUTTING $$$$$ INTO THE ENGINE BECAUSE ALL CARS CAN GET FASTER WITH $$$$.THESE ARE NUMBERS FROM CAR MAGS IN THE U.S.I HAVE GONE 12.41@115 WITH A CHANGE OF SHIFTERS.IF ANYBODY CAN TELL ME WHY A 350Z IS BETTER PLEASE TELL ME.

as much as i hate american cars i got to give them respect cause for that price range the vette and the stang are better then the 350z right out the factory.i admit dat.(i feel all nasty now!)
but if u hook up these cars the 350z will rune the vette and stang out the water!

no disrespect to u cobraman but 4 $34750 i can have a 11s car or even 10sec using a sr20det motor in a 240sx.

ill leave it at that!

FOR $500 MY CAR CAN RUN 11S AND HAVE THAT NEW CAR SMELL.I LIKE IMPORTS BUT YOU CAN'T BY YOUR SPEED FROM THE FACTORY.

i no its a whole other ball game when u start hookin up your car
good luck wit ur cobra
my be 1 day when i get a car we'll race
who noes?

Im a straight out Honda guy with a slight crush on cars such as the new Z, 94+RX7's and 94+ Supras,new M3, Mustang Cobra and NSX but since I cant offord those cars yet Im forced to pick on mustangs with my 1990Integra LS 1.8 killa Bmotor. Dont take it the wrong way I do love the sound of a V8 I just dont respect the trash talking I hear from the drivers. I love the look on their faces as my Integra with a stock engine runs past their V8's. I think its sad for a 1.8 V4 with some mods to spank a 5.0V8; these V8 drivers have set themselves up by always down playing little engines made for example by Honda. I have a friend with a stock 1.8Vtec GSR engine in his civic coupe and a computer mod beat a 5.0 that was at Hunts point burning rubber; the funny thing is my friend called him out while he was:rolleyes: burning rubber all over the place trying to empress everyone. Anyway to see a 1.8 4cyl stock keep up with the rumble of a 5.0 V8:p as the 1.8 4cyl missed 3rd gear and began to pass him when he finally got into 3rd correctly was a silly thing! You shoulda seen the mustang drivers face:eek: !LOL! Anyway just to let yah know you dont want the imports to go into V8 power cause american muscle or not the imports would win; you got enough trouble with their 4's. Once again dont take me in the wrong way I actaully plan on getting a mustang later on in life(cobra!) but all U import haters:finger: and I dont see how a stock mustang will beat the new Z unless it says saleen or Cobra on it! To the muscle heads who dont talk shit to the imports have fun racing and be safe but to the shit talkers have fun and be safe when your racing :finger: . Oh yeah compare your stock Mustangs to skylines, Rx7's, Supras, Z's, 3000GT turbo, S2000 and NSX's not the 1.8 4cyl eventhough we still beat you.LOL. later.

hey dave im from nyc, qnz
yo dat civic is a white hatch wit black rims?

ohh yea btw by postin dat story u know u starting alot of trouble rite?
hope u can handle it........
good luck..

o yea when waz u at huch point?

cause i go sum time when i get a ride up there.

5.0 MUSTANGS HAVE 215HP AND RUN 15S. STOCK MUSTANG GTS HAVE 260HP AND RUN 14.0@100.STOCK SUPRA 320HP 13.6@106.300ZX TURBO 14.5@97.STOCK 3000GT TURBO 320HP 13.9@100.STOCK S2000 240HP 14.4@98.STOCK NSX 290HP 13.1@107.STOCK RX-7 255HP 14@99.STOCK SKYLINE 276HP(YEAH RIGHT) 12.8@109.THESE ARE ALL BADASS CARS.THE MUSTANG GT COST $10000 LESS THAN THE S2000.THE INTEGRA TYPE-R WAS A NICE CAR BUT COST $25000 AND RUNS 15.4 1/4.THIS IS NOT IMPORT HATIN ITS JUST THE FACTS.

LOL. Damn:D By posting this I wasnt trying to get myself into any trouble!LOL. Anyway The civic that beat that mustang was a 1993coupe, its not a white one, this ones not even from the bronx! I wont describe this car because he has some other things in plan for it and if I tell exactly how it looks and how the driver looks than Im sure Im gonna cost him some cash; he's trying to keep this car a sleeper, and no its not covered in stickers or anything like that. Those guys who get completely upset over my first message and start to act up can kiss my azz. Yeah Im a Honda guy and Im gonna rep. it until Im tired of it and find something else which I really dont see happening. Notice I dont really attack other american brands, thats because Im just tired of hearing some NOT ALL mustang guys talk about imports like their nothen; those guys know who they are. Im cool with a couple of muscle car owners and yeah sometimes they get on the imports but thats kinda expected but they dont do it to the point where its just plain insulting. I've seen plenty of KillerMustangs and have even spoke to all their owners(yes if I like your car I will let yah know muscle or import), whether they where supercharge, turbo, or NOZ all those guys didnt act up when it came down to just talking about what car a racer drives. Hearing an azz say "oh you drive rice eater" gets kinda annoying; sure its funny at times jokes are jokes but anyone whose really into there car knows that certain things just need to be not said. Whether its an Import or a Muscle car each group deserves its respect. And for all you meanies :mad: I expect to answer this:flipa: just for you. Hopefully there are some guys/ladies who understand what Im trying to say. Im not a Muscle Car Hater just someone who gets pissed off when some people disrespect imports. I was at English Town a month ago and saw how badassed (meaning good LOL) muscle cars can get!!! I really dont care who I piss off and NO Im not gonna meet up somewhere to race your mustang LOL :smoka: I'll find you! I'll be that Black integra reving up right next to U at the light ready to wipe that smile off your face and go! Once again to all you :bloated: who get this message twisted:finger: I DONT HATE MUSCLE BUT I DO LUV MY IMPORTS! Import or Muscle make sure U have fun and be safe at doing it.:argue: LOL. Yall better pray I dont get my hands on that 1994RX7; Cant we all just get along?

you guys are arguing stock vs. stock----which is shit vs. shit. The 03 Cobra is 500rwtq capable-----and swap those 3:55s for 4:10s and that Cobra blows by a Viper & Vette. I could care less one of you guys chiming in well----the stock vettte this or the stock Viper that will beat a stock Cobra. Ford had to meet emission standards in order to build 8,500 blown Cobras. So they choked the hell out of the intake and exhaust----and ran a 8lb pulley. Were they able to get by the gov't restraints---we could have easily seen 15psi---and 600 flywheel hp off the floor. Would never happen if if they were allowed by gov't standards---because Ford wouldn't tread on its aftermarket arms---but you get the picture. The M3 is the total package as far as imports are concerned. Balance, luxury, affordability----overall bang for the buck ------- definetely the M3. Poer for the buck----thats definetely the 03 Cobra. I say power---because the stock K-member has to go----the stang needs coilovers, lowering springs, subframes, etc.----to be a force in a Gt race or slalom. But in reality------those mods I spoke of-----don't even get you to the price of a Z06 or an M3 coupe. The 03 is pretty damn wicked. Would rather have a 5.0 liter engine in it------because they will easily make more power than the current 4.6 slow poke.

Yo Cobraman:
you gotta consider these cars (all the imports U listed) are all Imports which mean they get taxed extra so that the American cars can remain more competitive in this market so the age old excuse of well their all too expensive can be directed to the government which do it so the Japs wont explode in the market. In all reality if the government alowed the Imports to sell their product(cars) without that tax to slow them down the american car sellers would have a big problem. Cars like the Type R are worth that much just because the public is willing to pay $25,000 for it; and to be honest the Type R which is probably my favorite shouldnt and isnt compared to Import SuperCars, its not made to battle against stock power like those cars its a well balanced (power and handling) car made to battle on road courses not the 1/4mile, you have to admit 195hp and 10rpm coming out of a 1.8 4 is deff impressive. And another thing do U have a Cobra? If yes which one and can I get the stock specs on it if you dont mind. Thanx.

To Sr20det2nr:
we were mostly at HuntsPoint this summer but near the end it got really dead cause the cops locked it down really bad; I mean they had road blocks at all the know racing spots. Right now its mostly a matter of going to the Point and praying the cops dont have it locked down.

Well, it looks like have to chime in here because there are a lot of stupid and ignorant people posting in this thread and only a few that know what the hell they are talking about.

This is an augment that will never have a winner, but one thing I can't stand is ignorance and misinformation. I will first address this handling issue. My old LeBaron GTC can out handle a lot of BMWs stock. For instance I was heading towards the freeway and the turn onto the onramp is pretty sharp. Well I raced a BMW 3 series off the line because I needed in that lane. He kept on it even after I passed him and when we took the turn I took it at 65 no problem, he tried and went off into the bar pit. Also a Civic Si, I raced him around a turn and he hit the curb while I took it even faster no problem and my GTC had STOCK suspension, that Si was lowered and had upgraded springs and shocks. Also I have four letters for you GTS-R, they dominated LeMans in 1998 so you can eat it that America can't make cars that can handle.

Now for power. I have one word for you, HEMI! Go ahead and make a V8 and watch it be eaten alive by a Hemi.

As for reliability, everyone makes shit. I have seen PLENTY of shitty ass imports driving around. We never have any abnormal problems with our Chryslers, just routine maintenance.

The person who started this thread is an ignorant asshole. I am all for constructive criticism, but what you are doing is plain being an asshole about it. While I like the Fairlady and plan to own one, I must say that you sir, don't know jack shit about cars.

Originally posted by Polygon
Well, it looks like have to chime in here because there are a lot of stupid and ignorant people posting in this thread and only a few that know what the hell they are talking about.

This is an augment that will never have a winner, but one thing I can't stand is ignorance and misinformation. I will first address this handling issue. My old LeBaron GTC can out handle a lot of BMWs stock. For instance I was heading towards the freeway and the turn onto the onramp is pretty sharp. Well I raced a BMW 3 series off the line because I needed in that lane. He kept on it even after I passed him and when we took the turn I took it at 65 no problem, he tried and went off into the bar pit. Also a Civic Si, I raced him around a turn and he hit the curb while I took it even faster no problem and my GTC had STOCK suspension, that Si was lowered and had upgraded springs and shocks. Also I have four letters for you GTS-R, they dominated LeMans in 1998 so you can eat it that America can't make cars that can handle.

Now for power. I have one word for you, HEMI! Go ahead and make a V8 and watch it be eaten alive by a Hemi.

As for reliability, everyone makes shit. I have seen PLENTY of shitty ass imports driving around. We never have any abnormal problems with our Chryslers, just routine maintenance.

The person who started this thread is an ignorant asshole. I am all for constructive criticism, but what you are doing is plain being an asshole about it. While I like the Fairlady and plan to own one, I must say that you sir, don't know jack shit about cars.
show em' how its done polygon! I agree you all need to take a step back and look at the biased arguments you been posting.

but maybe your civic is blasting by Mustang V6s----which is of no big deal to broadcast. But, I guess maybe where you live----thats your competition vette or viper :silly2:

5.0 MUSTANGS HAVE 215HP AND RUN 15S. STOCK MUSTANG GTS HAVE 260HP AND RUN 14.0@100.STOCK SUPRA 320HP 13.6@106.300ZX TURBO 14.5@97.STOCK 3000GT TURBO 320HP 13.9@100.STOCK S2000 240HP 14.4@98.STOCK NSX 290HP 13.1@107.STOCK RX-7 255HP 14@99.STOCK SKYLINE 276HP(YEAH RIGHT) 12.8@109.THESE ARE ALL BADASS CARS.THE MUSTANG GT COST $10000 LESS THAN THE S2000.THE INTEGRA TYPE-R WAS A NICE CAR BUT COST $25000 AND RUNS 15.4 1/4.THIS IS NOT IMPORT HATIN ITS JUST THE FACTS.


ah, the 300zx twin turbo can do 13.8 but does 14.1 more often, honda s2000 14.2 And the Type-R runs a 14.8. Hate to nitpick but those are the facts and half a second is significant.

oh and 300zx N/A does a 15.0 flat w/ 222hp so that is pretty comparable to the 5.0 but w/ a whole lot less displacement and a more refined engine.

And you have to say the s2000 looks impressive w/ its low horspower
and high revs.
And it may not be too related but watch out for the upcoming M5 that is supposed to have a V10 similar to the formula 1 engine
And SAAB's variable-compression engine, now that is a piece of godly work.

Okay I guess your right I shouldnt be surprised that a Japanese 1.8 V4 beats a 5.0 V6 American car; 180stock Vs 215hp:bloated: damn that sucks. Anyway I guess this is when you start to pull out a Viper huh?LOL. Oh yeah it is a V10 so I guess that would be a fair comparison to a Jap 1.8 4cyl right? I know your not trying to insult me(thanx for letting me know that I appreciate it LOL) but V8 mustangs get it just as much as the old 6's do their no big deal either. Around my area we run into alot of mustangs and vetts too and believe me by next spring my integra wont be one of those imports that run away from V8 mustangs(I get those now LOL) and vetts; I'll be looken for them. A Viper I have to admit is way higher in the street level so give me till June of next year to beat one of those eventhough their rare I've seen a yellow one like 20min from where I live. Its just funny to me when we're hanging out to see one of my friends with a Type R hatch, Gsr civic and Corado VR6 run into their cars (chacearace)wheneva they see a mustang 6or8 "rumble" past us with that look saying look at those silly imports expressions on his face. WOW a 1.8 4 going after a V8 :eek: lol well around here thats not that surprising my friend:smoker2: Just give credit where its do; the imports are getting more and more competitive and Im not even talking about the superImports like supras,Z's,RX7's,3000GT turbos and the NA NSX. Oh yeah Im not one of those sticker imports, my car is a 1990 Integra with fucked up faded black paint, two cracked headlights, dented hood and a cracked side mirror LOL and its sad to say by next summer I'll be going after V10 Vipers to see how my car is doing:eek:lol. And by then I would have spent no more than $7000 dollars on my car and that includes the car itself:D . I do love the Viper but I try not to speak about it because I dont see them everyday but mustangs except for the SuperCharge Cobra I do see so its fair game. The Cobra eventhough its a supercharged V8(I wouldve like it if it came with alot more power, Im guessing 400hp I wouldve rather it be in the 450's or more) has gained my respect after getting destroyed by one in my sistas 97Vtec V4 accord on the highway:eek: LOL. Just kidding I didnt get to race him in the accord LOL but that Cobra I have to say is the best sounding(I know it has power too) mustang I've ever heard; so after seeing the guy driving it simply fly by everyone on the highway with a not eventrying look on his face I had to admit Ford came out with something really good. Just to give U an idea on what a LS(1.8nonVtecV4 140hp) engine in a little hatchback can do I recently got a mag with a girl that owns a 92-95hatchback civic with a stock LS engine in it turbocharge(this is a stock motor!); all she did was increase the fuel, and got a stand alone system and she's already in the 11's:eek: yeah thats by just adding a T3 homemade turbo kit to her 140hp stock integra engine and adding a little fuel and its a street driven car:smoka: . She expects 10's after just rebuilding the block. Once again I dont dislike Muscle cars just some of their drivers:bloated:LOL. Muscle or Import have fun racing but be safe out there. :uhoh: LOL.

well there is no answer to this question!
the 350z vs. mustangs and vetts only time will tell!

but i was just wondering i thing that always puzzled me with domestics(no offence to any domestic people put there)but why do some of you brag about beating a 4clyd in racing when most of the times you are 6+cyld. and the you complain when a 4clyd beats you? i mean that always gets me? why?why? why?

i mean god damm how do you put a car with 2.0L against a car with 5.0L or more. do you really expect the 2.0L to win? in a stock car against stock car race? damm...

but i do understand why you people are shocked when a worked 2.0L beats you. its because you guys have worked +5.0L and still a damm "rice rocket" beat me!

so there you have it why? why? why?

again NO OFFENCE TO DOMESTIC CAR DRIVERS

1

Originally posted by sr20det2nr
well there is no answer to this question!
the 350z vs. mustangs and vetts only time will tell!

but i was just wondering i thing that always puzzled me with domestics(no offence to any domestic people put there)but why do some of you brag about beating a 4clyd in racing when most of the times you are 6+cyld. and the you complain when a 4clyd beats you? i mean that always gets me? why?why? why?

i mean god damm how do you put a car with 2.0L against a car with 5.0L or more. do you really expect the 2.0L to win? in a stock car against stock car race? damm...

but i do understand why you people are shocked when a worked 2.0L beats you. its because you guys have worked +5.0L and still a damm "rice rocket" beat me!

so there you have it why? why? why?

again NO OFFENCE TO DOMESTIC CAR DRIVERS

1

What you don't understand, is that it really doesn't matter how you make the power, as long as you can compete.

Because Honda put $10,000 into the S2000 engine, does that make it any better than the $5000 Camaro SS engine that is more powerful?

Just because Honda wanted to do the small engine thing instead of the cheaper more powerful large engine thing doesn't mean it does it any better.

Also, displacement doesnt tell the whole story. The Civic EX makes less power and puts out more displacement per minute than the Ford Focus even though the Civic has more hp/l.

Why? Because even though the Civic puts out less displacement per cycle, it has to cycle more to make less power. Understand? I can post the numbers if you want them.

kol i get it now
thanks
1
:eek:

Who gives a shit how fast your car can go in a straight line. those damn rustangs camaros cant corner worth a shit, not only that but with the new Greddy TT or the rumored NISMO version runnin high PSIs The Z could kick a mustangs ass in a 1/4 mile

Who gives a shit how fast your car can go in a straight line. those damn rustangs

i so agree wid u you...
soon as those turbo kits for the 350z came out it will kill all!

at least i hope so....

damm quote didnt come out i meant for the part about the turbo to come out..
by bad:D :cool:

Well, it looks like have to chime in here because there are a lot of stupid and ignorant people posting in this thread and only a few that know what the hell they are talking aboutThis is an augment that will never have a winner, but one thing I can't stand is ignorance and misinformation. I will first address this handling issue. My old LeBaron GTC can out handle a lot of BMWs stock. For instance I was heading towards the freeway and the turn onto the onramp is pretty sharp. Well I raced a BMW 3 series off the line because I needed in that lane. He kept on it even after I passed him and when we took the turn I took it at 65 no problem, he tried and went off into the bar pit. Also a Civic Si, I raced him around a turn and he hit the curb while I took it even faster no problem and my GTC had STOCK suspension, that Si was lowered and had upgraded springs and shocks. Also I have four letters for you GTS-R, they dominated LeMans in 1998 so you can eat it that America can't make cars that can handle.

Now for power. I have one word for you, HEMI! Go ahead and make a V8 and watch it be eaten alive by a Hemi.

As for reliability, everyone makes shit. I have seen PLENTY of shitty ass imports driving around. We never have any abnormal problems with our Chryslers, just routine maintenance.

The person who started this thread is an ignorant asshole. I am all for constructive criticism, but what you are doing is plain being an asshole about it. While I like the Fairlady and plan to own one, I must say that you sir, don't know jack shit about cars. [QUOTE]


I totally agree.Okay,I know American muscle cars,the new ones,arent as fast as they should be but they will beat 70% of fast imports,maybe more.Better yet,put your Skyline up against a 1975 Hemi,you'll be shitting your pants.



[QUOTE]Who gives a shit how fast your car can go in a straight line. those damn rustangs camaros cant corner worth a shit, not only that but with the new Greddy TT or the rumored NISMO version runnin high PSIs The Z could kick a mustangs ass in a 1/4 mile


Of course it would beat a Mustangs ass,but not a Cobra or a Vette.


I think its sad for a 1.8 V4 with some mods to spank a 5.0V8




Well if thats true than who ever was driving the Stang didnt know how to race

said its outrageous (I know you didn't use this word) for a 2.0L to take out a 5.0L---don't forget about the new WRx STI----with its turbo. I guess what I mean to say----is that its not an engine against engine deal-----we have an entire car we are talking about----we have weight issues, traction issues, powertrain issues, that are factored in to what makes a car fast. Thats what it comes down too. To say a 5.0L vs. a 2.0L is unfair---is just crap. I say crap---because if its a 2.0L with a 10lb turbo----well-----its a worthy race. Naturally aspirated, blown, turboed----who cares-----it comes down to how efficient companies want to make their engines. The 03 Cobra is just insane for the price and the looks to boot! 500rwhp & 500rwt capable-----stock isn't crap on this car------when all the mods have already been done on this car----to prove that my claims are no bull! The viper can go naturally aspirated----but the Cobra has amazing potential to run with a Viper----you just have to go to the aftermarket-----to get it there!

Originally posted by sr20det2nr


i so agree wid u you...
soon as those turbo kits for the 350z came out it will kill all!

at least i hope so....

Throw a turbo kit on a Z28 and who wins now?

Mustangs and Camaros may not be the best handlers, but they handle well enough that their hp difference makes up for it on most tracks. Isn't that what matters?

You have to remember, the Mustang and Camaro are more competition for the G35, as they are 2X2s.

The big heavy Cobra R outhandles anything in Nissans linup. This shows that they don't have to be as sluggish as they are, but with their stock suspensions, they are. However, if you actually drive any of thses cars, you will find that the handling differences are VERY subtle.

is that there are very affordable suspension components outhere in the Ford aftermarket that will a Cobra or GT to easily exceed the Cobra Rs performance capabilities. Sorry to say, Nissan or Infiniti isn't even on the cusp of being able to do that for their Z or G35. Their aftermarket is still stuck in its baby phase of developing serious performance products.

The big heavy Cobra R outhandles anything in Nissans linup.

umm......
skyline!

i'd like to see it run with that! that would be a more fair race!


also you were saying throwing a turbo on a z28 that would be cool but i would still think if you tunned the 350z right the 350 would beat the z28.. if u tune it right!

Originally posted by sr20det2nr


umm......
skyline!

i'd like to see it run with that! that would be a more fair race!

Well I would hope the Skyline would win considering how much more it costs, but the best numbers I can find for the Skyline in the slalom is 68.3 and the best for the skidpad is .95.

The Cobra R puts down 69.4 in the slalom and over 1 G. on the skidpad.

also you were saying throwing a turbo on a z28 that would be cool but i would still think if you tunned the 350z right the 350 would beat the z28.. if u tune it right!

When bored to 427 ci and turboed, the LS1 puts out a reliable street legal 725 hp. Sticking with 350 ci, Lingenfelter coaxes out 550 hp.

I want to see the VQ3.5 put out even close to those numbers reliably and legally.

stutz knows a great deal considering he drives a pulsar

the vq35 should put out around 600hp easily when wrked cause the vg30dett easily put of 600+hp at the wheel reliably! now the vq has .5 more L... so i would say that a twin turbo vq35 will put out well ova 600hp+ reliabiy!

Originally posted by aznstylez
stutz knows a great deal considering he drives a pulsar

Don't judge me by more poor old beat up Pulsar. I also own a Jeep Cherokee and Chevy Citation, but don't drive them much except in the winter.

I just want people to stop saying stupid things about cars, like "my 3 cylinder can beat up on your V6. Whoop-ti-doo! I try to be as unbiased as possible.

http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/nissan/2003/z/home.shtml
According to the tuner, the blower probably won't be able to add more than 70-80hp. I don't know what the internal make up the engine is all about-----but judging from these 'weak' numbers----sounds like the internal engine components are cast metal. So, you guys talking about the potential of this car with a blower/turbo---better realize that its going to be quite expensive to root power into this 3.5L, because you are going to have to upgrade the internal pistons,rods, bearings, etc. I'm sure though in a few 2-3 years----when the the twin turbo hits the streets---the internal problem will be address. For the mean time though, looks like you'll be spending more money than just for the blower/turbo----to get power in that 'soft core' engine. :p

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cobraman03
[B]THE 350Z IS A NICE CAR.FOR $34500 YOU GET 287HP THAT RUNS 14.4 1/4 @98MPH AND PULLS .88GS IN THE SKIDPAD.THE CAR TIPS THE SCALE AT 3370LBS.THE 3.5 V6 IS A NICE ENGINE.THE ZO6 COST $52000 WITH 405HP AND RUNS THE 1/4 IN 12.85 @114 AND PULLS .94GS IN THE SKIDPAD.THAT CAR TIPS THE SCALE AT 3118LBS.MY COBRA COST ME $34750 WITH 390HP AND RUNS 12.84@114 IN THE 1/4.THE SKIDPAD IS .91GS AND TIPS THE SCALE AT 3665LBS.0-60 TIMES ARE 5.8 350Z,4.6 ZO6, 4.6 COBRA.

Why does everyone list the 350Z price @ $35,000? The enthuisist model is like $29,000- same engine, same suspention. And I'd rather spend my $ on some forged Volks over those Rays. So you're really comparing a $29,000, $52,000 and $35,000 cars. Just wanted to remind everyone that the 350Z IS CHEAPER THAN EVERYTHING that it is being compared too. Performance aside it looks generations better than any stang or F body. Love those fake intakes and hood scoops on the Stang ha, ha, ha...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cobraman03
[B]THE 350Z IS A NICE CAR.FOR $34500 YOU GET 287HP THAT RUNS 14.4 1/4 @98MPH AND PULLS .88GS IN THE SKIDPAD.THE CAR TIPS THE SCALE AT 3370LBS.THE 3.5 V6 IS A NICE ENGINE.THE ZO6 COST $52000 WITH 405HP AND RUNS THE 1/4 IN 12.85 @114 AND PULLS .94GS IN THE SKIDPAD.THAT CAR TIPS THE SCALE AT 3118LBS.MY COBRA COST ME $34750 WITH 390HP AND RUNS 12.84@114 IN THE 1/4.THE SKIDPAD IS .91GS AND TIPS THE SCALE AT 3665LBS.0-60 TIMES ARE 5.8 350Z,4.6 ZO6, 4.6 COBRA.

Why does everyone list the 350Z price @ $35,000? The enthuisist model is like $29,000- same engine, same suspention. And I'd rather spend my $ on some forged Volks over those Rays. So you're really comparing a $29,000, $52,000 and $35,000 cars. Just wanted to remind everyone that the 350Z IS CHEAPER THAN EVERYTHING that it is being compared too. Performance aside it looks generations better than any stang or F body. Love those fake intakes and hood scoops on the Stang ha, ha, ha...

I think the Mach 1 would be better compared to the 350Z(although, the G35C would be ideal). Though, the Cobra and Track Models are comperably equipped. Don't forget, you are paying for a back seat with the Cobra.

As for the 350Z in the looks department, no thanks. The Mustang is much better looking in my opinion. Now the 300ZX and G35 coupe, those are lookers.

who beleieve that a Z looks better than a GT or Cobra. Thats for sure. The $29K Z is definetely the bottom of the barrel model---with a weak suspension like a mustang V6. I say that for comparison sake. You aren't going to be able to get much more power in a turbo/blower---without replacing the insides of the Z stock engine. So you better dig deep son. The Z----well-----I guess you just have to have a like for oddly shaped cars----nothing pretty about iy :alien2:
I did want to mention----the Z06---well, an experienced shifter can get that car into 12.4s in the 1/4---and I'm not talking about adding slicks either. The Z06----is just all that. Definetely a tougher dog and better car overall than a Viper. Viper has more HP----but that doesn't warrant a car a simple pedigree. The Z06 can shame some cars outhere that are over $100K. The Z is still in the baby stages of everything----and the Nissan aftermarket---in particular for this car-----is nothing to be getting excited over lol. The stock scoops on the Gts and V6s---do suck----but they have killer aftermarket options.

I totally agree about the Z06 is can hang with cars twice it's price. It's the best bargain in performance cars. As for appearance prefferences to each his own. The suspention is the same on all the 350Z models I thought. There is stability and traction control and under body spoilers options for more $. You still get the LSD for $29,000 and I think that's the most crucial part. I just wanted to point out that for 29,000 you get 287HP, LSD and same suspention. Vettes and Cobras are faster but significantly higher priced.

Originally posted by Stutz
I think the Mach 1 would be better compared to the 350Z(although, the G35C would be ideal). Though, the Cobra and Track Models are comperably equipped. Don't forget, you are paying for a back seat with the Cobra.

As for the 350Z in the looks department, no thanks. The Mustang is much better looking in my opinion. Now the 300ZX and G35 coupe, those are lookers.

If you would acttually bother to read the posts instead of flaming you will notice my post that shows how car and driver already compared the two and the 350Z won the nr 1 place beating the pants of the Mach1 on the track. Ond btw they used the touring model wich is the slowest of the 350Z's.

Originally posted by Neutrino


If you would acttually bother to read the posts instead of flaming you will notice my post that shows how car and driver already compared the two and the 350Z won the nr 1 place beating the pants of the Mach1 on the track. Ond btw they used the touring model wich is the slowest of the 350Z's.

I am sorry for not wanting to read through 5 pages of this. If the Z beat the pants off of the Mustang, then good. But like I said, they aren't really direct competitors as the Mustang has a backseat.

Where have I flamed? Or was that just a baseless claim meant to drag me down. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Stutz
I think the Mach 1 would be better compared to the 350Z(although, the G35C would be ideal). Though, the Cobra and Track Models are comperably equipped. Don't forget, you are paying for a back seat with the Cobra.

As for the 350Z in the looks department, no thanks. The Mustang is much better looking in my opinion. Now the 300ZX and G35 coupe, those are lookers.


Ok so first you say that the Mach1 can be better compared to the 350Z and now you say that they are nor really competitors???

And ok maybe I was a little bit exagerated when i said that you were flaming but still you should read as many posts as you can in order to be part of the disscussion.

And that stupid Mach 1 can drive off a cliff with that damn imitation shaker hood! :mad:

Give me the 350Z any day over any Mustang, well perhaps the Shelby GT500, but that’s IT!

http://www.twinight.org/people/jra/pics/hayes_mopar_swap/Shaker_hood_detail.jpg
http://6pkshaker.homestead.com/files/6pkscoop.jpg

sorry bro----but the touring model at $29K does not have the same suspension and price for that matter as the top of the line Z. You mention price. The Cobra coupe sells for $36K----and it can be found for that price----so I don't want to hear about isolated dealer markup cases. Also, for $7K more---you get an engine with 500rwhp capability---better suspesnion than any Z version ofered----and, whats the word . . . .
brute force, power, suspension balance and mean, nasty aggressive looks. 500rwhp car at $36K with a blower???? lol How can we even argue about the bargain in this car. Hands down-----the Z maybe be cool to some-------but it is not a better bargain.
$88K for a 500hp viper (not even that good looking of car) , 400hp Z06--$50K. C'mon bro---be honest with yourself. The Z---doesn't quite cut into that argument. You should be ashamed of yourself to argue a point like that. :bloated:

Give me a 1972 Gremlin any day over a Chrysler Lebaron. You wear sunglasses and a baseball cap in that car???? :p

Originally posted by vortech
Give me a 1972 Gremlin any day over a Chrysler Lebaron. You wear sunglasses and a baseball cap in that car???? :p

You're one of about three people that have mocked the LeBaron, so that doesn't exactly make you funny nor cool.

Ok vortech easy on the double posting and flaming. And you shoud know that many people here (including some with very good technical expertise) respect him and his lebaron.

Also it sems that nobody seems to bring any proper proof about which car is better. A mustang or a z. I seem to be the only one to post a batlle between them. Please stop flaming and do bring some tangible evidence about your claims.

Originally posted by vortech
sorry bro----but the touring model at $29K does not have the same suspension and price for that matter as the top of the line Z. You mention price. The Cobra coupe sells for $36K. Also, for $7K more---you get an engine with 500rwhp capability--- 500rwhp car at $36K with a blower???? You should be ashamed of yourself to argue a point like that. :bloated:

As far as the suspension on the Z I was going by what is listed on Nissans site. They don't mention anything about an upgraded suspension in the higher models. Addmited I'm falable- but I they should advertise that. The cobra so what you're saying is $36K +$7K = $43K right? You will eventually be able to spend that same $ on a Z, preferabley turbo. I wouldn't be surprised with that $8K+ the Z will be around low to mid 400HP. And it'll be lighter than the Cobra. Not the Z06. Maybe the Z won't be quite as fast, but it'll be in the neighbor hood. And ultimately IMO looks are more important than performance. The Z is a much better looking car. And I would'nt be caught dead in a lebaron. Even with 1000HP.

you are pretty silly boasting about your car comparison proof------because you are referring to a car magazine that compared the Mach 1 & Z-----. This car magazine speaks nothing of the engine highs and lows. Who ever spoke of the Mach 1 being so great----is living in fantasy land. For all you guys talkin smack about just slapping on a turbo to Z------you are going to spend a ton of money on the current engine------because you have to UPGRADE TO FORGED INTERNALS! I'm not wasting my time explaining forged----because you are not running any kind of boost like the 03 Cobra----without upgrading the Z's internals------thats a steep price in the wallet. The 03 Cobra is forged equipped baby. And A Z is not going to make 500rwt like the cobra. Cobra may be heavier------but the monster torque makes up the difference.
Lastly, anyone who puts up a pick as ugly as a Lebaron ---- well----is going to get hiked on. Sorry, but that car is ugly. Could care less how fast it may be------its ugly. Let me repeat---its hideous. And anyone who says it isn't----you aren't being honest--an simply just want to start a wave to whack me. It is hideous-----and its not beautiful at all. May be fast, but the looks---are vomit material. I bet if I put up a pick of a neon with one of those rediculous wings that you see on Hondas----I get the same response. There is nothing wrong with indicating that a car is ugly. If you can't deal with an opinion and are too sensitive--then you need to go elsewhere ----where people speak no truth whatsover. What the hell happened to people-----nothing but pansies are being raised in this country. Its not flaming----that car is ugly-----and if I displayed that car------I'd get the same response from the board. Some of you guys ------ sound like absolute homos., No offense of course. :silly2:

ok you really should realize that what you are doing is flaming no matter that you say its not calling all of us homos is a dirrect attack. You are just lucky that no mods have seen your posts yet because you will get banned. Flaming is not tolerated.

For all you guys talkin smack about just slapping on a turbo to Z------you are going to spend a ton of money on the current engine------because you have to UPGRADE TO FORGED INTERNALS! I'm not wasting my time explaining forged----because you are not running any kind of boost like the 03 Cobra----

I'm not trying to talk smack. And I'm not a NOOB. I know what forged internals are. And I admit to not being fully read on the cobra. 500rwHP is a TON to the wheels. So what PSI is that on the cobra to get to that? FI will NOT require forged interals on the Z unless you want to run a lot of boost. Strictly guessing I think 8-10 PSI would be fairly safe for a daily driver. And I said above so the Z won't be the fastest. But you wouldn't lap it either. I prefer smaller, lighter cars. The Z is smaller and lighter than stangs, F bodies, vettes...and better looking. I don't care what huge amount of power you're putting to the wheels cause in everyday driving how often are you drag racing in a straight line? I don't care what kind of suspension you have but when your car is close to 4000lbs it will NOT handle very well. I'm looking at buying an enthiast Z for my daily driver. For $29,000+ I think it's a great deal. That's where my arguments are coming from.

Rahl that above post it was not aimed at you but at vortec. And if you would read my posts i acctually defended the Z.

So people stop flaming and bring some well good arguments with ACTUALL PROOF to back them up. Maybe we can actually still save this thread.

It's all good. I'm not trying to flame either. Just enjoying a good competitive conversasion. Always enjoy learning new sheet too.

Originally posted by Lord Rahl


FI will NOT require forged interals on the Z unless you want to run a lot of boost. Strictly guessing I think 8-10 PSI would be fairly safe for a daily driver. And I said above so the Z won't be the fastest. But you wouldn't lap it either. I prefer smaller, lighter cars. The Z is smaller and lighter than stangs, F bodies, vettes.... I don't care what huge amount of power you're putting to the wheels cause in everyday driving how often are you drag racing in a straight line? I don't care what kind of suspension you have but when your car is close to 4000lbs it will NOT handle very well. For $29,000+ I think it's a great deal.

Sheesh, where to begin!

You seem certain that the Z won't need forged guts to survive some boost, but in the next sentence you even say you're strictly guessing as to what it would be able to handle? Just seems like a bit of a contradiction to me.

It seems pointless to spend such a large sum of money on a turbo kit for a daily driver that will have severely restricted boost levels. It's almost as though you just want to be able to say you have a Turbo Z!

And a Z isn't lighter than as many cars as you'd like to think. The only saving grace to that arguement is that Mustangs have gotten pretty porky again. So did the last F-Bodies, but they had lots o' motor to go with it. A lot of Mustangs couldn't say the same thing, till about 2000.

I'd say you're still living in the sixties if you think a Z will 'smoke' all domestic sports cars in the twisties as well: January 2001 Road and Track tested 12 cars on a roadcourse. The Camaro SS had faster lap times than the BMW M Roadster, the Honda S2000 and the Porsche Boxster S. December's Car and Driver tested the Z against the S2000 and the S2000 beat the Z on a roadcourse. So if a Camaro SS beat an S2000 which beat a Z... All I'm saying is that you CAN NOT make the generalization that domestic cars can't handle well.

Now in that C&D article, the Touring Z DID beat the Mach 1 (with the solid axle) by a second on the roadcourse. But I'll bet you a dollar that the nearly 4,000 lb. Cobra would be a totally different story. In other words, that nearly 4,000 lb. Cobra DOES handle very well.

And if you ask me, a GREAT deal would be a WRX or a Mustang GT: Forced induction cars are WAY easier to mod than N/A cars. And the WRX is no exception. A good friend of mine has one with just exhaust that runs 14.1 in the quarter. That still costs less than a BASE Z, is just as quick, and who is going to say that a WRX can't handle? My brother has a bone stock '02 GT that he ran a 14.2 with this summer (he's a banker, too, not a car-guy). It may not handle as well as the Z, but it only cost him $21,500, loaded. With the left over cash and the Mustangs aftermarket, I'm pretty confident he could make it hang with a Z for a lower entrance fee.

So the Z is a kinda neat looking car, if you're into the horseshoe crab look. And if they do turbo the Z, it'll probably fare as well as the 300ZX Twin Turbo's did: yeah, they're pretty quick, but I can count the ones that I've ever seen on one hand.

that someone who understands the makeup of the cars in questions-----identifies what has already been shown to be prove. SPYVO----did bring up a great car---that I forgot about---that being the WRX---and its awesome handling. Anf for all you guys who missed it------he's 100% right about the being able to mod a mustang to some serious strict wickedness. The problem with some of these Z guys----is that they simply don't understand whats available in the mustang aftermarket-----and they sure as hell don't understand how close the 3,700lb 03 snake is to being pretty damn amazing. How close people say? I'll tell you what-----get a Kenny brown lowering kit suspension + remove the stock k-member and stock control arms-----then watch it be in blur in the mirror of the so called beats = Z06, Viper. Thats a fact fellas----and if you don't agree--then its simply because you don't know whats available in the mustang aftermarket- or you simply don't own a cobra thats been modded to the extreme. I may be brash fellas-----but I've spent the excess cash with this aftermarket equipment----and I know what an insane difference its made to my car.

I think a lot of you guys don't understand the relationship between a turbo, S/C, and cast internal parts. I keep stressing over and over again forged internals-------not to insult anyone's intelligence-------but simply to reinforce to all that you need to be very leary of what you read about 'simply' being able to slap a blower or turbo on anything. YOU NEEED FORGED INTERNALS for high levels of boost! End of story. Cast parts-----just can't take the toll for long.

Ok and you obviously don't undestand what stop double posting means.


Also repeat this: weight is your worse enemy in races.

Also there is only so much you can do to the suspension to improve handling. Because you can do very little about chassy rigidity and weight ratio.

A sports car has a light weight very stiff chassis and a 50/50 weight ratio. Examples: new viper is just above 3000 punds ferraris have a perfect 50/50 etc.


If you mod the car to radiacally alter those factors then that is practically a different car.

Originally posted by Neutrino
Ok and you obviously don't undestand what stop double posting means.


Also repeat this: weight is your worse enemy in races.

Also there is only so much you can do to the suspension to improve handling. Because you can do very little about chassy rigidity and weight ratio.

A sports car has a light weight very stiff chassis and a 50/50 weight ratio. Examples: new viper is just above 3000 punds ferraris have a perfect 50/50 etc.


If you mod the car to radiacally alter those factors then that is practically a different car.

lol you cant? you've never heard of chassis braces, stronger K members and subframe connectors have you? how about rollcages? that will stiffen up ANY car beyond its need. yeah thats not much.
weight is the enemy, it is not the deciding factor. it doesnt mean that if a car weighs alot it cant handle.

could not have said it better myself . . . FYRHWK1 understands the concept, take a lesson from him Neutrino
THIS IS WHY double posting has to go on----because of stupid remarks like this one: "If you mod the car to radiacally alter those factors then that is practically a different car." What the hell are you talking about??????? What do you think the point is with modifying a car------to reduce its performance. Go to a thread where no one talks about modifying stock cars---I mean--thats where your talents are better suited. You obviously don't know the kind of suspension equipment thats in place on a Viper or Z06. Let me sum it up for you---because your posts reflect that you just don't understand that those 2 vehicles have what is equivalent to what can be found in the mustang aftermarket. An aftermarket K-member offered by Kenny brown can give a cobra an extra inch and 1/4 in the wheelbase----and the aftermarket control arms developed------make the stock vs. aftermarket handling, seem like night and day. You obviously have never owned or driven a stang with these kind of suspension alterations. I live the argument------because my 01 cobra-----is just about as aftermarket as you can get----I don't even know why I bother to argue with some of you guys. There are so many stang owners who have done the same thing I have, and would call you out on your foolishness if they heard your remarks. Because some of you psoters don't know squat. Some of your vehicles mods probably don't even go beyond a chip, air filter, and exhaust. Some of you guys don't go any further than lowering springs------so how could you know what it takes to handle over600hp and outhandle the Z06s and Vipers. Some of you guys read car mags----yet don't know jack about the kind of equipment used in the cars engines, suspension, etc. Don't even know how it pertains to real, road contact. I guess that explains why we get retarded posts like 'don't double post'. Shoot your mouth off about things you know------because you sound foolish otherwise.:eek: :eek:

there are other aspects besides how much horsepower and torque-------like what kind of differential, rear end, transmission you have on a car. It isn't simply about horsepower and weight pal. You can rebuild a car's rear end and see an absolutely trremendous difference in performance. For argument's sake----a Cobra's rear end can be rebuilt----to handle wicked horsepower and at the same time have tremendous traction. Hell, you can do that to practically any car----as long as the aftermarket equipment is outhere. I've done it to my stang---and all for no more than $1,700 in parts. Thats still a heck of a lot less than you would think!

Originally posted by vortech
you are pretty silly boasting about your car comparison proof------because you are referring to a car magazine that compared the Mach 1 & Z-----. This car magazine speaks nothing of the engine highs and lows. Who ever spoke of the Mach 1 being so great----is living in fantasy land. For all you guys talkin smack about just slapping on a turbo to Z------you are going to spend a ton of money on the current engine------because you have to UPGRADE TO FORGED INTERNALS! I'm not wasting my time explaining forged----because you are not running any kind of boost like the 03 Cobra----without upgrading the Z's internals------thats a steep price in the wallet. The 03 Cobra is forged equipped baby. And A Z is not going to make 500rwt like the cobra. Cobra may be heavier------but the monster torque makes up the difference.
Lastly, anyone who puts up a pick as ugly as a Lebaron ---- well----is going to get hiked on. Sorry, but that car is ugly. Could care less how fast it may be------its ugly. Let me repeat---its hideous. And anyone who says it isn't----you aren't being honest--an simply just want to start a wave to whack me. It is hideous-----and its not beautiful at all. May be fast, but the looks---are vomit material. I bet if I put up a pick of a neon with one of those rediculous wings that you see on Hondas----I get the same response. There is nothing wrong with indicating that a car is ugly. If you can't deal with an opinion and are too sensitive--then you need to go elsewhere ----where people speak no truth whatsover. What the hell happened to people-----nothing but pansies are being raised in this country. Its not flaming----that car is ugly-----and if I displayed that car------I'd get the same response from the board. Some of you guys ------ sound like absolute homos., No offense of course. :silly2:

:rolleyes:

That post proves nothing more than the fact that you are unintelligent and ignorant. I never meant to flame, but you make statements that are PURE opinion and expect us to take them as fact. With all the bottom ends of the 4.6 going out, I would say that those FORGED internals need to be reworked. And 20 PSI, you think that is a lot, you are a moron. I could run over 25PSI on the stock engine and internals in my LeBaron. So nobody cares about 20 PSI, a DSM can run more than that on the stock engine and internals. It is nothing impressive. I know a lot about FI and you just seem to know what you have read in magazines. Your signature just makes me laugh, just throw a blower on a Viper and you can kiss your ass goodbye. Also the GTS-R can get over 750HP N/A so your 555RWHP is no big deal. You can't compare your car to Viper because it has more potential than your Mustang's engine could dream of. Comparing modded cars to cars that are stock is merely a way for someone to make themselves feel better. Big deal, my modded car can beat your stock car. Like I give a damn. At least driving a Viper isn't like driving an F-150.

As for you comment on my car, this confirms your ignorance. Once again that is simply your opinion, and you are one of few who feel that way, I have received a lot more great compliments on my car than I have bad ones. Don't go trying to pass your opinion off as fact. I like the looks of my car, that is all that matters, not your bad taste, and that is my opinion.

Also calling us all homos, real tactful. That might get some respect in second grade; it will get you none here. Also, please type a little more coherently; people might actually give you some shred of respect if you made an effort to portray some intelligence.

I am done, I won’t answer to anymore ignorant posts, only valid and informed intelligent posts.

I dont like the way this thread is turning out. It's also putting negative marks against some potential mods.

Originally posted by FYRHWK1


lol you cant? you've never heard of chassis braces, stronger K members and subframe connectors have you? how about rollcages? that will stiffen up ANY car beyond its need. yeah thats not much.
weight is the enemy, it is not the deciding factor. it doesnt mean that if a car weighs alot it cant handle.

Ok the point i was trying to make is that if you stiffen up the car you'll increase its weight quite a bit. In order to compensate for that you'll have to strip almost everything else out of the car or make some serious mods. Well at one point that car will have almost nothing stock therefore being basically a different car. You can make a geo metro into a super car with huge funds.

A car like the lotus elise on the other hand has a very lighweight chassis that is incredebly stiff therefore needinng no mods to make it into an awesome performer.

And vortec before flaming me you should read my some of my other posts and then judge my knowledge.
thanks for telling me about diferentials cuz i have no ideea about them. Oh wait except that i want to install a quaife lsd on my car but what do i know.

Btw if you really want to see a car expert about forced induction try talking to hybridsol i believe he can teach you a thing or two. Or show you his 10 sec dx with a turbo b18c on which he spent only 4k btw. And this comes from a person that does not like hondas the best but because of people like hybridsol i started to get more and more respect for their engines.


Also Kris it might be better to close this thread considering it is extremelly inflamatory starting with its title.

well yes you will increase the weight, and to make up for it you can go to lighter weight body paneling and suspension components, driveshafts, etc etc, theres tradeoffs for anything, you make it sound like the stock chassis is incredibly weak.
the mustangs i can agree to this on, i've seen quite a few reports about the chassis not handling the extra frontend load of the blower & iron block, this isnt so of every car, most domestics have a stiffer frame then a typical import because of the extra weight put into it.

and polygon, you seem to know FI pretty well, you must know that the PSI the turbo puts out doesnt mean very much in terms of part stress. pressurizing the air column more doesnt always force more air in if the turbo cant flow it, and a smaller engine will require more turbo pressure to make equal amounts of power.
its really just the amount of resistence within the motor, airflow tells how much power you'll make.

Ok i wasn't saying that the mustang frame was mush or that domestics have poor frames. If you'll look at what car i drive you'll see its domestic. The point that i was trying to pass was that suspension upgrades alone will no make the car handle perfect.

Originally posted by FYRHWK1
and polygon, you seem to know FI pretty well, you must know that the PSI the turbo puts out doesnt mean very much in terms of part stress. pressurizing the air column more doesnt always force more air in if the turbo cant flow it, and a smaller engine will require more turbo pressure to make equal amounts of power.
its really just the amount of resistence within the motor, airflow tells how much power you'll make.

Thanks, and that is very true. I guess my statements were somewhat rash. I know quite a bit about turbocharging and N2O, but I must admit that I have limited knowlege when it comes to superchargers.

Plus, s/c and t/c work too differently, they can't really be compared too well in respects of pressure output I suppose.

i realize you cant just throw suspension components (of any serious stiffness anyway) in there and expect the ultimate handling car, but the suspension has more play & give to it then the chassis does, you'll see a big improvement with just tires and springs on an F body, mustangs however, i know nothing about.

you have to look at the market of the cars, the F body was popular in a time when people liked to do all the mods to their cars, when things were simple and it just took an afternoon to throw the shit on and you were done.
plus they cost less then the elise, they're built with saving money in mind and letting the consumer modify it to their needs, and i cant think of any car more flexible in that regard then a ponycar, but i'm getting off topic.

yeah, SCs usually push alot of air without major pressurization, they rev up exactly with the motor so they're (supposted to anyway) going to supply it all the air it needs at that point, plus they flow a ton more air since the impellers/rotors/screws/whatever are so facking big, i dunno if you've ever held a weiand screw before but those bastards are huge :eek:

Yes a friend of mine had a 2001 trans am and he did some suspension upgrades and I was quite impressed by the handling. And a good supension upgrade will do wonders for handling but still there is no replacement for a good stiff lightweight and perfectly balanced chasis.

I was just giving the elise as an example because its such an amazing pure sports car. And from what i hear is not that expensive a little above 30k from what i hear.

Originally posted by warpedmindZ
i own a 350 Z and i can tell you that this car will out perform almost any of the american v8s on the road. not only does it handle much better and get much better gas miles. it has a much sexier look than those damn mustangs that people by because they thing that they are getting a high performance car. if they were to drive a Z for one day they would most definatly change there mind about the hole american made only thing.


God I really hope you get to read this sometime. If what you say is really what you believe, then you have not had the pleasure and thrill of driving a Corvette ZO6. Not only does a ZO6 have the torque and hp to blow the doors off of your 350 Z, but it will do better on a twisty road with sugical precision, it will handle on a twisty road with satellite laser guided precision. The ONLY cars to top a ZO6 would be the names of Ferrari, Porche, Jaguar, and so on. Think about those names, those are some high class, very well performing names, and Chevrolet, an American company is running right along with them, and will someday be right there within them. I know not everyone can like the same thing, i understand that, but you have to trust me, a 350 Z will never touch the power, handling, class, and most importantly, will never have the sophistication and history of a Vette. And if you might be one to really care about handling, a ZO6 will pull 1.01 g's. Thats some pretty damn good suspension. I have had the pleasure, only once, of driving a 03 ZO6, and until you're the one with one hand on the wheel, and the other slamming the shifter through the gears as you wrap up that tightly wound V8 and go literally screaming down the road and feels the g's pushing you back in your seat, you will never fully understand, the awesomeness of a ZO6 Corvette.

I thought i'd add one more thing, the Vette is a very docile car to, it's easy to get along w/. it is a very easy car to drive around in a down town area, for example, you can leave it in 3rd or 4th gear and just putt around town. thats pretty good. And it has enough trunk space for a small tent, sleeping bags, or a couple of golf clubs. Or whatever you have planned, it'll hold a little more than you think, it gets good props for that considering its size. So for a 400+ hp car, its very much still user freindly and easy to get along with.

Redlined_V8:
I have the utmost respect for the Vette. But I have to point out that while the 350Z hasn't been around very long, the Z has. Late 60's if my research is correct. So it does have heratige. Nissans Silvia, Skyline and Z have very long distinct pasts (esp for a 'import').

Our cars tend to be less expensive here, due to the tarrifs that are imposed on imports of all kind. Go to most other countries and the tables get turned. Our cars are a lil more expensive. If you were to use the prices in a vehicles home market (ie Nissan in japan BMW in Germany etc) you would see that all the cars are evenly priced.

If ya wanna look pretty get the Z, if ya wanna win races get the 2003 Cobra.

why did you guys resurrect this again?

Originally posted by flylwsi
why did you guys resurrect this again?

the struggle for suppremacy must continue!:bandit:

isnt thier anyone on this forum that loves cars ??? ALL CARS ??? I do , sure I love old f-bodies but so what ? I'd love to drive an rx7 , a supra , or one of them new turbocharges neons. hell I'd love to drive my moms colt vista she had when I was a child because I'm curious how it handled. I love cars , 4 wheels a motor and a steering wheel !!! Is anyone else with me on this ?

Also
""I beat that Z car by a tenth of a second, but I can't corner worth a damn!""

Did all of a sudden fbodies and vettes lose thier excellent handling ability ? My car is older than dirt and I can wing around a corner doing 50+ in my 20 year old 177k mile 305HO camaro !!! Sure a 350z would have my ass anywhere , but so what. My car rumbles and I like it that way , its cheap , its fast enough, it handles , and its loud !!! I love it. I think the 350z is awesome too and I'd love to drive one , but I think I'd stick with my ole girl because I love these cars in particular. But just because I prefer camaro's doesnt mean I hate everything else. Some of you peeps are way to one sided.

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28
isnt thier anyone on this forum that loves cars ??? ALL CARS ??? I do , sure I love old f-bodies but so what ? I'd love to drive an rx7 , a supra , or one of them new turbocharges neons. hell I'd love to drive my moms colt vista she had when I was a child because I'm curious how it handled. I love cars , 4 wheels a motor and a steering wheel !!! Is anyone else with me on this ?

Also
""I beat that Z car by a tenth of a second, but I can't corner worth a damn!""

Did all of a sudden fbodies and vettes lose thier excellent handling ability ? My car is older than dirt and I can wing around a corner doing 50+ in my 20 year old 177k mile 305HO camaro !!! Sure a 350z would have my ass anywhere , but so what. My car rumbles and I like it that way , its cheap , its fast enough, it handles , and its loud !!! I love it. I think the 350z is awesome too and I'd love to drive one , but I think I'd stick with my ole girl because I love these cars in particular. But just because I prefer camaro's doesnt mean I hate everything else. Some of you peeps are way to one sided.

Shoot man, that was what I used to think like before I joined here, but eversince, discussions here are about car comparisons, "bang for the buck, horsepower per liter, nice interior" It just gets you all wrapped up and you get this like brand loyalty and you hate anyone driving a car that's different from yours, I cant take it anymore, its eating me up inside!!!:alien:

I know , ive never seen more bias' in my life lol !!! every thread turns into a stress release !!!

Originally posted by pennyho

...removed...

Pennyho, you are making f-body driver look worste with that response to ZV3s post.

Originally posted by pennyho

...removed...

Umm......You have a 285 horse Camaro. right? The 350Z is 280 horse.
Now, the Camaro weighs approximately 300 pounds more than the 350Z. And if I'm not mistaken, the rule of thumb is 10 horses per 100 pounds. That's 30 horses. I realize that the Z28 has a good bit more torque than the 350Z, but consider the torque curve. The power of the 350Z VQ series engine(I would know, as I have one) is best after about 3500-4000 RPM. The torque in the LT-1 is around 2500-3200 RPM and may lag a bit after that. What that means is that the Camaro will have more spin off the line, then it will get pulled on by the later torque of the VQ. That=smoked Camaro

As for handling, we all know that the Z handles better, so lets not argue. Lower platform, stiff, but not too stiff suspension. Not built just to go into a straight line. Performance brakes, suspension, etc.

I'm not hating on F-body's because I love them, but I agree that there is no reason for a 350Z driver to risk his neck on anything short of a new WS6 Trans-am.

Originally posted by ZV3
who cares what a guy in a cheap dime-a-dozen Mustang or Crapmaro thinks...I would not come to this forum and brag about beating a new Z by a tenth of a second or so...all you can manage to do is *barely* beat it? I REALLY dislike those cars, no refinement at all...it's not about 0-60

Its so funny how you were talking about dime-a-dozen - how long has the new Nissan Z been on the market? 4-5 months?? I'm not sure but I can tell you I've seen dozens, literally dozens puttering around town lately (was at an AMC theatre two weekends ago and saw no less than 3 silver/champagne Z350's within a six or seven row radius). Just one other Camaro besides my baby on our side of the lot - an absolutely menacing black LS1 SS (no other Stangs or F-Bodies to be seen, and believe me I notice them if they're around). I'm not suggesting that there will eventually be an equal or greater volume of Nissan Z's on the road, but just wait and see how exclusive these cars will be in a few years. They will be changing the body on these models in two years - mark my word.

As for your righteous preach about luxury German engineering (or state of the art Japanese technology) v.s mass production 1950's American small block technology, bravo argument you buffoon. Like anyone in the market for a BMW would be comparing a Camaro as well, or vice versa? You are inappropriately comparing two different breed of men: the kind who put on pansy leather gloves and a fruity scarf to go for a boot in the mountains - and the kind who are not afraid to get their hands dirty changing oil or sparkplugs and who take pride in what the four stroke internal combustion engine was meant to sound like, in its glorious V8 incarnate (I don't know what sounds more hideous: these little four-banger rice-rods that sound like ill-tuned gas powered lawnmowers or your M-powered six cylinder that sounds like an electric weed-whacker).

My buddy happens to drive one of the only "real" M3's in our area, he's had it since '98, but everytime he rides with me or even see's me tuning my Z28 in the driveway he wishes he had never sold his '94 Z28. And I know better than to waste gas racing him - from a stop, rolling start, freeway tear-up, you name it - I've shamed him into his place far too many times now. You tell me how many tenths of a second a half dozen car lengths would be going about 270 KPH? And to think that these high priced-high tech European & Japanese cars CAN NOT even beat our cheap 1950's derived small block V8's by even a tenth of a second! Whose shame needs to be hidden by not racing, eh?

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28
I know , ive never seen more bias' in my life lol !!! every thread turns into a stress release !!!

I hear you buddy. I just found this site and am like "wow, HUNDREDS of threads!" and the very first one I read is just some turd's stupid philosophy. I feel stupid now having wasted my time responding.

Thats a sweet Camaro you got - I've always loved the '87-90 Z28's and IROC's. Those were the first cars that got me into this. Keep it beautiful!

Originally posted by DVS LT1


Its so funny how you were talking about dime-a-dozen - how long has the new Nissan Z been on the market? 4-5 months?? I'm not sure but I can tell you I've seen dozens, literally dozens puttering around town lately (was at an AMC theatre two weekends ago and saw no less than 3 silver/champagne Z350's within a six or seven row radius). Just one other Camaro besides my baby on our side of the lot - an absolutely menacing black LS1 SS (no other Stangs or F-Bodies to be seen, and believe me I notice them if they're around). I'm not suggesting that there will eventually be an equal or greater volume of Nissan Z's on the road, but just wait and see how exclusive these cars will be in a few years. They will be changing the body on these models in two years - mark my word.


FIrst of all, F-bodies are badass, and I love them. But there are a few things we have to cover. First of all, I rarely see a V-8 F-body(Z28 or SS). And it absolutely pisses me off that these companies make cars like this. A lot of peop are like, "yeah, that's my camaro over there," trying to sound bad-ass, but all they have is a damn V-6. I just hate. The F-body, in my opinion, is going down the drain becuse of this.

and pick. the 350Z (Z33) has 287hp not 280.

Originally posted by TatII
and pick. the 350Z (Z33) has 287hp not 280.

OK, which is even more my case and point.;)

Somebody on this thread actually had the nerve to cut down other cars then admitted owning a M3. Let me tell you about the M3. The newest generation M3 has had to have the first years cars recalled due to oiling failures that have caused hundreds of complete engine failures. It was so bad that BMW has extended warranties. I owned a 2002 M3, paid for in cash, for about four months. What a dog!!! The car is good looking but gets lost in the crowd when lined up with its competitors in its price range. Heck my Mini Cooper S gets more looks than my M3 ever did. I own a brand new 2003 ZO6 that is supercharged and is getting a 427 stroker motor installed as we speak. That ZO6 does everything that the M3 does ,except blow up, and does it better. On top of that you cannot upgrade the horsepower of the M3 to any great extent. That little inline 6 is at its limit. My "crappy" Corvette can be upgraded to make over 600hp and still drive with the AC on. I suggest that before anyone flames another car that they look at what they drive first. :devil:

i worked at a nissan dealer and drove 350z's, maxima's and 3.5L SE altimas all the time, needless to say this "350z" has nothin on my 89 iroc, my 89 iroc has nuthin on an ls1, maybe out of the hole to the 330 or 1/8th. the 350 is quick but just doesnt have that torque that makes u go into the seat, i took one up the street first into 2nd gear and i wasnt impressed, my car felt stronger when it was bone stock. the other thing i dispise is the interior, it feels like a death trap, very crowed and hard to see out of the damned thing. maybe the ls1 and 4.6L guys should be the ones ignoring the little nissans?

Originally posted by Pick


Umm......You have a 285 horse Camaro. right? The 350Z is 280 horse.
Now, the Camaro weighs approximately 300 pounds more than the 350Z. And if I'm not mistaken, the rule of thumb is 10 horses per 100 pounds. That's 30 horses. I realize that the Z28 has a good bit more torque than the 350Z, but consider the torque curve. The power of the 350Z VQ series engine(I would know, as I have one) is best after about 3500-4000 RPM. The torque in the LT-1 is around 2500-3200 RPM and may lag a bit after that. What that means is that the Camaro will have more spin off the line, then it will get pulled on by the later torque of the VQ. That=smoked Camaro

As for handling, we all know that the Z handles better, so lets not argue. Lower platform, stiff, but not too stiff suspension. Not built just to go into a straight line. Performance brakes, suspension, etc.

I'm not hating on F-body's because I love them, but I agree that there is no reason for a 350Z driver to risk his neck on anything short of a new WS6 Trans-am.

the 93-97 LT1 fbodys started otu with 275hp, in 97 the SS was optioned with 305hp, the ls1s are a totally differnt beast and if ur going to compare a high 13 low 14 second nissan to a high 12 to low 13 ls1 ur gonna see that SS/T/As tail lights get smaller and smaller as it pulls from ya. remember horsepower sells cars, torque wins races, the 350z might have 280hp but it certaintly doesnt have the torque of an LT1 or and definitly not the potent ls1.

Originally posted by 1BAD305


the 93-97 LT1 fbodys started otu with 275hp, in 97 the SS was optioned with 305hp, the ls1s are a totally differnt beast and if ur going to compare a high 13 low 14 second nissan to a high 12 to low 13 ls1 ur gonna see that SS/T/As tail lights get smaller and smaller as it pulls from ya. remember horsepower sells cars, torque wins races, the 350z might have 280hp but it certaintly doesnt have the torque of an LT1 or and definitly not the potent ls1.


I don't think a 350Z can beat an LS-1. I think that it can beat any Z-28, however. You stated that torque wins races, and that is my point exactly, The torque of the VQ35 engine comes at the right time to win the race. THe LT-1 gets an early jump, then the VQ eats it up after that. A good race, but I still say 350Z in the end. BTW, the 280 torque of the 350Z can be partially made up by it having 300 lbs. on the LT-1.


Also, are you sure you worked at a Nissan dealership and drove Z's, because most Nissan employees would know that the 350Z is 287 horse. I made a mistake, and I'm beginning to doubt your 'not as strong as my 305' spiel

Originally posted by 1BAD305
i worked at a nissan dealer and drove 350z's, maxima's and 3.5L SE altimas all the time, needless to say this "350z" has nothin on my 89 iroc, my 89 iroc has nuthin on an ls1, maybe out of the hole to the 330 or 1/8th. the 350 is quick but just doesnt have that torque that makes u go into the seat, i took one up the street first into 2nd gear and i wasnt impressed, my car felt stronger when it was bone stock. the other thing i dispise is the interior, it feels like a death trap, very crowed and hard to see out of the damned thing. maybe the ls1 and 4.6L guys should be the ones ignoring the little nissans?

Are you kidding me? "Doesn't have the torque to put you in the seat.":rolleyes: It has a 280 torque VQ engine. I have 205 torque and I can plant myself into the seat. The VQ plays a lot bigger than its displacement. Its a strong little motor. You should know that.

Originally posted by jak112460
Somebody on this thread actually had the nerve to cut down other cars then admitted owning a M3. Let me tell you about the M3. The newest generation M3 has had to have the first years cars recalled due to oiling failures that have caused hundreds of complete engine failures. It was so bad that BMW has extended warranties. I owned a 2002 M3, paid for in cash, for about four months. What a dog!!! The car is good looking but gets lost in the crowd when lined up with its competitors in its price range. Heck my Mini Cooper S gets more looks than my M3 ever did. I own a brand new 2003 ZO6 that is supercharged and is getting a 427 stroker motor installed as we speak. That ZO6 does everything that the M3 does ,except blow up, and does it better. On top of that you cannot upgrade the horsepower of the M3 to any great extent. That little inline 6 is at its limit. My "crappy" Corvette can be upgraded to make over 600hp and still drive with the AC on. I suggest that before anyone flames another car that they look at what they drive first. :devil:

That made little to no sense. The M3 is not a dog. It may not be as fast as you want but its certainly not that. Why in the world would you buy a Z06 to put a stroker into it :confused: A stock C5 would have been a much better choice. I don't like to scream bullshit on the newbie very often but putting a supercharger on a motor just to swap it out is wastfull even for the filthy rich.

Because you are a F&(*&%^$^%kin idiot I will enlighten you. The M3 is a dog. I bought the ZO6, which it isn't any of your business why, because I like the hard top look better and I didn't want to buy a used car. I made the post to make the point that you shouldn't flame other guys rides when your own is suspect. The supercharger is going on the 427 motor also. It's not a waste and it's not for you to decide if I'm spending my money the you would.

Originally posted by jak112460
Because you are a F&(*&%^$^%kin idiot I will enlighten you. The M3 is a dog. I bought the ZO6, which it isn't any of your business why, because I like the hard top look better and I didn't want to buy a used car. I made the post to make the point that you shouldn't flame other guys rides when your own is suspect. The supercharger is going on the 427 motor also. It's not a waste and it's not for you to decide if I'm spending my money the you would.

Really?

What size pulley are you running and what kind of supercharger is it?

And also, how much did the 427 cost? I'm interested.

Originally posted by jak112460
Because you are a F&(*&%^$^%kin idiot I will enlighten you. The M3 is a dog. I bought the ZO6, which it isn't any of your business why, because I like the hard top look better and I didn't want to buy a used car. I made the post to make the point that you shouldn't flame other guys rides when your own is suspect. The supercharger is going on the 427 motor also. It's not a waste and it's not for you to decide if I'm spending my money the you would.


woaa..take it easy on yogs...his concerns were legitimate...and he did not flame you...he is one of the few guys in this forum that never flames anyone.....

I can't say the cost of the supercharger because Vortech made a deal with me to use my car. The pulley was sized to make approx 6psi with the stock 5.7 motor. Now that Iam going with the 427 we are going lower compression and more boost. The blower will have to be changed out to accomidate more CFM needed.
The guy who flamed me, was questioning why I would bother buying a ZO6 when a C5 coupe would be much cheaper. The ZO6 is stiffer to start with and I think the hard top look is better. That's my opinion. My ZO6 has been tubbed to accomidate 19x12.5 rear wheels and 345/30/19 Pilot Sport tires. When the car gets out of the dyno I will try to post numbers.

cant say the cost, heh, thats rich, the pulley was sized to make 6 psi? thats lower then the LOWEST stock vortech system for a LS1, and that still didnt answer his question of the actual pulley size.

Originally posted by jak112460
I can't say the cost of the supercharger because Vortech made a deal with me to use my car. The pulley was sized to make approx 6psi with the stock 5.7 motor. Now that Iam going with the 427 we are going lower compression and more boost. The blower will have to be changed out to accomidate more CFM needed.
The guy who flamed me, was questioning why I would bother buying a ZO6 when a C5 coupe would be much cheaper. The ZO6 is stiffer to start with and I think the hard top look is better. That's my opinion. My ZO6 has been tubbed to accomidate 19x12.5 rear wheels and 345/30/19 Pilot Sport tires. When the car gets out of the dyno I will try to post numbers.
http://smiles.sprintmax.com/bsflag.gif


Sorry dude, but you got some explaining to do. The Vortech supercharger's
stock PSI is WELL over 6, plus you don't even know what size pulley you are running.
:rolleyes: As for the 427, what is the displacement of the motor? ANd what is the stroke?

Because you are obviously trying to question my inegrity I will have you call the people doing the tuning on my car. Cerra Racing 309-793-3278. Vortech makes many different blower units for different applications. There isn't one only that makes over 6psi. The supercharger I have is a complete package with aftercooler etc. It's made for the LS6/LS1 motor. Slightly lower psi for the LS6 because of compression ration. The 427 is a common setup. Go to MTI.com and they offer this as 422. The stock block cast in cylinder sleeves are cut out and Darton replacement sleeves are pressed in and then bored to the desired size. I assure the motor being done for my car is 427cid and the blower originally put out around 6psi. The new set up will do about 10 psi but with lower compression. If you are going to question somebody and imply they are full of shit then at least check for yourself first to see if what is being said is possible. You could simply go to Vortechs site and find out about the C5 blower kit. Then you can go to Cerra and talk to them. Simply call and ask if they are doing a blown 427 setup fro Jeffs car. Ask for Mike and if he isn't there then ask for Chris.

Originally posted by jak112460
Because you are obviously trying to question my inegrity I will have you call the people doing the tuning on my car. Cerra Racing 309-793-3278. Vortech makes many different blower units for different applications. There isn't one only that makes over 6psi. The supercharger I have is a complete package with aftercooler etc. It's made for the LS6/LS1 motor. Slightly lower psi for the LS6 because of compression ration. The 427 is a common setup. Go to MTI.com and they offer this as 422. The stock block cast in cylinder sleeves are cut out and Darton replacement sleeves are pressed in and then bored to the desired size. I assure the motor being done for my car is 427cid and the blower originally put out around 6psi. The new set up will do about 10 psi but with lower compression. If you are going to question somebody and imply they are full of shit then at least check for yourself first to see if what is being said is possible. You could simply go to Vortechs site and find out about the C5 blower kit. Then you can go to Cerra and talk to them. Simply call and ask if they are doing a blown 427 setup fro Jeffs car. Ask for Mike and if he isn't there then ask for Chris.

Ok, that's all I needed. You presented some really sketchy facts.;)