I changed my '93 3 cylinder's 5 speed manual transmission oil this winter.
(Posted in another thread)

The Chilton Manual says it should hold 2.5 quarts, but I could only get just
under 2 quarts back in it before it spilled out the fill hole.

Most folks find the same thing.

I think my transmish is noisy, however.

So I want to add more oil via that Clutch cable hold-down bolt on top of the
transmish that gooes thru to the inside.

OK....that said, does anyone see a problem with pouring another half-quart of
oil into the transmish...?

My transmish makes a lot of noise when I start the engine cold and allow it
to warm up.

If I push the clutch in, the noise stops.....

I'd like to have more oil in that sucker so that everything gets bathed in oil
upon startup.

As long as there is an air space above the oil, it should be OK - no?

Any comments?

DoctorBill

i see no problem either on oil except when you fill it up until it comes back out of hole that should be full..but if you have noise in clutch probably your throw-out bearing.....good luck...

scrapper...

Hey, Dr. Bill...I've been following your "Phoenix" adventure, & have picked up a few things, so maybe I can return one to you...Do NOT fill your gearbox beyond the level plug. Gearboxes need thier oil to be at a certain LEVEL, rather than a specific volume. Overfilling could cause excessive pressure (blown seals) and increased windage resistance (more drag & heat). As far as the noise, adding extra gear oil won't help. (unless you were bone dry, & I'm sure that you would have mentioned if you were). In the Chicago area, metro 5 speeds go for around 200.00, so , if it gets too bad to drive, just swap it out. Good Luck, & thanks for a great thread.

My 2 cents says Dont overfill it Doc! If the fluid is coming out of the hole......It's full! My 94 Metro 5 Speed was refilled with new fluid last year when I did an engine swap into it, when the fluid came out of the filler hole, I capped it off and haven't checked it since....I also installed a new EXEDY clutch kit before putting the engine in.....It's nice and quiet....Clutch out or pushed in.


Exedy clutch kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EXEDY-89-00-GEO-CHEVY-METRO-NEW-1-0-L-Clutch-Kit_W0QQitemZ150088561515QQihZ005QQcategoryZ33730Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I should record the noise I hear and put it on the Internet so you folks can hear it.

When I start the engine this winter, the transmission is loud and sounds like a
"dry bearing" - then when I push the clutch pedal in, the sound goes away.

Comes back when I let the clutch pedal out.

After the engine warms up, the sound is gone.

It is not coming from the engine block - from toward the right side of the Transmission.

I don't get the sound after driving (warm system), at stop lights with the clutch
pedal out, nor when starting up again when I stop at a store, etc.

What would be doing this - and should I worry about it...?

DoctorBill

might be the throwout bearing making noise

might be the throwout bearing making noise
+1 Doc....If you can milk it along till the weather gets warmer out, You should just buy the entire clutch kit I posted in the link. These are good clutch kits for our Metro's and the same kit I installed last year....They ship fast too! It comes with a new throwout bearing and pilot bearing for the flywheel too.....But you'll need to pull the tranny out to install the kit...:disappoin . When your ready, were here to help......The old clutch in my 5 speed had 110K miles on it, but it still worked! Not wanting to "Tempt Fate", I replaced the whole clutch setup while the old DOA engine was out of the car..... To install the kit either the engine needs to be out or the tranny needs to be pulled.......Now you know why?

Is there a thread in this or other forums where one is shown what to do...
with pictures maybe...?

I suppose my Chilton Manual has a half-assed explanation, but if someone would
post the method with pictures it sure would be nice....hint, hint, hint...

How difficult is this process?

What "Special tools" are required?

What costs are involved besides the kit you posted before?

Could a half-wit like myself do it without screwing the pooch?

DoctorBill

PS - how long before the transmish fails...?

What will I experience as the transmish goes south...?

i can get the jdm low mile trannys for about $150. i know you don't get over this way much but if you do you can use my shop and if you run into a problem i can help you. its about a 2-3 hour job to replace the clutch, you just pull the tranny and its not to hard if its up in the air

How many miles are on your car and is your 5 speed manual the original tranny Doc? If it's getting pretty high in miles, I'd say take Crvett69 up on the offer and replace the tranny with a low mile JDM he can get....You just re-did the engine Doc....Makes sense to me! Yes, If you rebuilt your Engine with help from this forum....You can easily pull your old tranny out and swap it or put a new clutch kit in it. I had never did a clutch kit on a Metro before and I (With the basic instructions in my Haynes manual) Did a complete clutch swap in less than an Hr but again, the engine was out so removing the flywheel to change the pilot bearing/Pressure plate/clutch assy was a little easier.....It's no big deal, even if the engine is in the car. The new throwout bearing goes on the tranny itself. When you decide what your going to do Doc, we can get into full details with pics unless your going the replacement route at Crvett69's Shop? (Easy and fast). I have access to a lift at my neighbors house across the street, but I didn't use it when I did my engine swap and a tranny swap can be done with the car on jackstands. Cant tell you what the symptoms of a 5 speed going south might be because I've never had one that did......Yet! I have a spare 5 Speed tranny, wrapped in plastic and sitting in the corner of my garage when mine finally does?

First - I will record th sound I get and set the file up so's you can hear it...

Second - even if the throwout bearing (or the other one?) is worn, how bad does
it have to get before I can't drive the car?

I don't want to do this Clutch Job until I really have to!
A "noise" is not a big deal if it doesn't mean permanent damage is occurring...

Third - Since I "did" the engine, I am of the mind that I might as well fix the
transmish and not just replace it....$105 for the kit (cost + shipping) versus
$150 plus shipping (or more?) for the JDM transmish (with unknown wear on it).

I like the concept of fixing something and knowing what's left when I am done
versus replacing it with an unknown part of unknown condition and hoping the
replacement is better than what I could do myself repairing it. (wordy explanation).

Fourth - Once I repair the clutch with that kit, would the transmish be likely
to go another 150,000 miles w/o problems? The gears themselves don't wear
very much do they? Do other bearings in the Transmish go out?

Fifth - the only other bad part of a "do it myself" job is that I can't do a
syncromesh repair....does syncro last a long time?

Sixth - once the transmish is out of the vehicle, to me it is 50:50 as to
replacing the Transmish versus repairing it myself...

So I am of a mind to repair the bugger myself - but only if it really needs it
and only if those two bearings and clutch plates are the only major items needing repair....

DoctorBill

only problem is what if you get it out and find out you can't repair it or its to expensive for whatever is bad. if you have a low mile one to put in you can have the car back on the road fast. you can always take yours apart then and see what it needs to fix it. if you look at teamswift under transmission there is a section on what it takes to pull it apart and go through it with exploded views. read that then decide if you want to tackle it

JDM tranny's are low mile Doc (40-60K on them) but bear in mind, the clutch assy is attached to the flywheel, which is attached to the engine so your unlikely to be getting a 40 to 60K mile clutch assy with your low mile JDM tranny.....Again I ask Doc......How many miles are on the tranny and is it the original trans?.....This would be the deciding factor for me in just replacing the clutch assy (Which requires pulling the trans) or replacing both the tranny AND a new clutch Kit to go with it also.

As for myself, I have tranny problems. BUT it shifts very smoothly, no grinding of any sort. Clutch slips though (only engages about an inch from top of pedal movement). So while I'm replacing my engine I'm putting in a new clutch set. Should solve the problem. I know original trannys last a long time if kept up properly. I still have the original tranny, however, with 159,000 miles. Probably original clutch too. Doubt if it's ever been replaced (the clutch).

GM Line Rat - Sorry, I forgot to answer your question.....I have a 5 second
attention span these days! No kidding!

I bought this car (The Phoenix) used in April of 2005. It had 148,000 miles
on it. It now has 161,000 miles.

I have not a clue what the previous owner(s) had done to it.

I can only assume that the 161,000 miles it now has is the original total.

Can someone tell me if the sound I am hearing at cold weather startup is BAD
or just a prelude to wear?

The only way I can describe it is the sound some bearings make when dry.

Why would it do that only when really cold out?

Startup in normal weather (above 32 deg) produces no such sound in the transmission.

As usual, if I hear some sound in a car, I worry about it....I'm nuts!

Let me understand this....even if I put in a JDR tansmission, I may still have to
buy the clutch kit....

Again - if my transmish is changing gears nicely, clutch not slipping, not
heating up, not making funny noises (besides the one described), then I am
likely in possession of a good tranny that may only need a throwout bearing...if anything!

And this car may work just fine for 50,000 more miles w/o any problem...yes?

DoctorBill

PS - HOW does the "throwout bearing" get lubrication?

Let me understand this....even if I put in a JDR tansmission, I may still have to
buy the clutch kit....

Again - if my transmish is changing gears nicely, clutch not slipping, not
heating up, not making funny noises (besides the one described), then I am
likely in possession of a good tranny that may only need a throwout bearing...if anything!

And this car may work just fine for 50,000 more miles w/o any problem...yes?

DoctorBill

PS - HOW does the "throwout bearing" get lubrication?
Yea Doc, the odds are that a JDM low mile trans will only come with a low mile throwout bearing since it's attached to the tranny itself, But Unless I'm wrong (Haven't had the need to buy a JDM tranny)......The clutch assy wont come with it since it's bolted to the flywheel/Engine itself. My car had 122K miles on it when I did the engine swap, The clutch in it was fairly worn, but still semi decent. I decided that since I was keeping the car for awhile (And the engine was out), I installed a complete clutch kit for approx $100.00......Call it "Preventative Maintainence but I would have been kicking myself in the Azz if I had driven the car another 10K miles and the clutch started to slip or a bearing started to go after I had an easy Opportunity to replace it with the engine out...And I didn't....:nono: . I know the former owner of the car and he let His 21 Yr Old Son drive it sometimes....Which led to the engine being toast also!....The car was Free and armed with the prior owner knowledge, I wasn't willing to "Roll the dice" on the clutch assy and bit the bullet and replaced it Doc.....In your case and with the mile info.....If it were me, I replace the whole clutch assy inc bearings if it still shifts good. Again, your going to have to pull the trans, even if your just putting in a new throwout bearing Doc.....Why not make the repair complete (Piece of mind) with a whole new clutch kit? As far as "this car may work just fine for 50,000 more miles w/o any problem...yes?.....That's a hard call to make Doc? It very well may do so? Then again, it may not!.....You'll have to use your better judgement on that decision but in my opinion, if the bearing is noisy now (In the Cold weather and quits when it warms up)......It's only a matter of time before it's noisy all the time and in any weather conditions!

you won't get a clutch set with a jdm tranny, its bolted to the motor. a throwout bearing will cost you between 20 and 30 for a new one. new kit with that and the clutch, presure plate and pilot bearing will run you around 100. its kind of like doing the rings when you rebuild the head. i would replace the whole set including putting in a rear main seal while you have tranny out. i though yours was a little hard to shift now?

My transmission shifts like butter right now.

I figured out why sometimes it "sticks"....

I have big clown feet and my shoes are 12's.

Very often when I go to push in the clutch pedal, my big clown shoes hit the
wheel well that curves in by the clutch pedal and I don't get the clutch pedal
down all the way to the floor.

The Geo Metro is not made for guys with big wide feet....

Also, I never noticed anything until I drained and changed the Transmission Oil to
this Valvoline Durablend SAE 80W-90 Synthetic Blend Gear Oil....(???)

I wonder what was in the transmish before I drained it....?

So, I think that I will just drive this bugger until some "badder" noise happens.

If indeed the throwout bearing is going south, I'd bet it has many many more
miles on it before I need to "fix" it.

I drive about 75% of the miles on 60 mph country roads and the rest in Spokane,
so I don't beat on the clutch too much. I let it out and don't hold the pedal down
sitting at traffic lights, either. I let it set in neutral at lights.

When it gets worse, then I will repair it.

I don't want to get "fix it" happy, yet....I'll just enjoy driving it.

What's this I read about the rear main seal...?

DoctorBill

there is some oil thats called red line synthetic transmission oil, its thinner than 80w so it might shift better when cold. i have size 11 W and never seem to have a problem with pedal lol. the rear main seal is a 1 piece unit behind the flywheel. if you pull tranny out to do clutch you might as well do the main seal at the same time. its only about $10 and one less place for the motor to leak as it gets more miles on it. on the jdm engines i always charge the front seal and the rear main and the timing belt before i put them in the car. the old ones might not leak but i hate doing the same job twice so i consider it money well spent

I'm in similar shape with 12 narrow feet. What I find is not that I hit the fender well but I sometimes get my feet too high on the pedals so that the toes of my shoes are contacting the control lever above the pedal making it MUCH harder to depress. After a little adjustment (on my part) I rarely do this anymore unless I am wearing boots.

Like you mention the throwout bearing probably has many miles on it before it becomes critical. It will probably drive you insane from the squeaking/squealing before it would fail.

If I am thinking about it, no problems....

But its when I am thinking about world problems such as Iraq and the Moslems,
or when I am pondering some nuclear physics delemma with sub-atomic
particles using Quantum Chromodynamics math.....

or maybe when I am lusting after a half-pounder Ron's Double Cheeseburger
with a Tub of Fries and a bowl of Chili with Cheese that I forget and press down
incorrectly on the clutch pedal....

I figured the noise was not some "fatal" sound that would cause my immintent demise....

DoctorBill

What's this I read about the rear main seal...?

DoctorBill
As Crvett69 allready mentioned Doc, the rear main seal is at the back of the motor (Crankshaft) and is accessable when you take the flywheel off.....I also changed mine while the motor was out......Cheap insurance....Ditto on the front seal and new timing belt too!......I only want to do these fixes......ONCE!

You'se guys have convinced me!

When I take out the Transmission and fix the clutch and throwout
bearing, I will do the main seals as well.....promise!

I just hope you are around when I do that job...

DoctorBill

You'se guys have convinced me!

When I take out the Transmission and fix the clutch and throwout
bearing, I will do the main seals as well.....promise!

I just hope you are around when I do that job...

DoctorBill
Trust me Doc, The job you did with overhauling the engine was harder than pulling the trans in a Metro....I have complete faith in ya Doc! Besides, we need another good "How to" pictorial to get started in here!....:grinyes: .