Electric Supercharger - Interest Poll

Hi all - I am currently working as a mechanical engineer for a company in the business of developing electric powered superchargers. I thought this would be a good place to poll the interest of possible consumers.

OK, I know Ebay is saturated with "electric superchargers" and it's all a big joke to everyone, but the reality is that this IS possible, if you have realistic expectations and good engineering. We have run these things for years on large turbodiesel engines for the purpose of reducing/eliminating turbo lag and have excellent results; the units have been used in several countries as pollution control devices in urban areas, and fitted on commercial fleets from garbage trucks to urban bus programs (frequent start/stop = high pollution while waiting for the turbo toget up on boost). We've also tested on small displacement engines and based on our old-technology compressors (much lower flow capacity than the units I'm working on now) we could make a 1.6L engine meet or exceed the performance of an equivalent 1.8L engine, with no sacrifices and better fuel economy. Additionally, I can tell you that just about EVERY turbocharger manufacturer is working on similar projects to create a workable electric assisted turbocharger. This is a very hot topic in automotive engineering right now, not just on Ebay!

I've also heard all the arguments - it takes too much power, the load will "bog" down the alternator, etc. Reality: the battery can provide enough power to operate a LARGE electric motor for 10-15 seconds, no problem. If high loads "bog" your alternator enough that you can feel it, you need to get your alternator checked. Once the current draw exceeds your alternator capacity, the battery takes over, and when the motor is switched off, the alternator recharges the battery at its leisure. An electric supercharger consumes about 50-75% as much power as your starter motor, and the starter motor does its job without the assistance of the alternator.

Like I said, you need to have realistic expectations. You will NOT increase peak HP or torque with an electric supercharger. Peak HP comes at or near redline, when your engine is consuming so much air that it would take a HUGE amount of power to compress it significantly. However, if the supercharger is optimized to create boost at low-mid RPM range, we believe it is possible to increase torque and HP in the 1000-4500 RPM range anywhere from 20-35% depending on the application. From 4500 RPM on up, the boost would taper off gradually to a 0% increase near redline. This is all projected for an engine from 1.6 to 2.0 liters in displacement. I'm bench testing these compressors right now, so I know for a fact the flow and boost is attainable, and I'm working on an integra install right now so we should be dyno testing in the next couple of weeks.

There have also been questions raised about intake restriction, and of course we have thought of that. The electric supercharger would be completely bypassed when it is either switched off or the compressor is incapable of flowing more than atmospheric pressure (like at high engine revs). In this state it will present no intake restriction.

The question is, would people be interested? My logic goes something like this: Most people in this hobby don't think twice about buying the typical I/H/E for anywhere from $500-1200 all together, and realistically gain very little torque, and perhaps 5-10 hp if they're lucky, by shifting the torque peak up a few hundred RPM. The next step is something like the JRSC or a turbo, where you'll usually spend $3000+ when all is said and done. What I'm proposing is a solution that can safely provide about 4.5 psi boost at low engine speeds, providing a torque curve very much like the JRSC up around 4500 RPM, and then blending off into the natural HP peak of the engine. For engines that are notoriously "peaky" like the Si, GSR/Type R, or the Toyota 2ZZ-GE (Celica/Matrix) I tend to think this would be very useful "low risk" solution for a daily-driven car, and installation should be a 1-2 hour job at most. We also would expect to seek CARB exemption (which we have previously attained for these superchargers in Diesel applications).

Now I'm just looking for feedback from enthusiasts like myself. My viewpoint is a little skewed since I've been in love with high-revving engines for years, and my current daily driver is a '96 Integra GSR with a B20/GSR turbo engine so I'm pretty well adjusted to making my power at high revs (although the B20 block does make the engine feel a lot happier down in the 3000 RPM range). Incidentally, I will also be pursuing applications of this same supercharger as a means to overcome any lag present in turbocharged setups.

I would just like to hear the viewpoint of others - is this a product you think you / your mom / other enthusiasts / the general public / kids with green tinted windows and huge spoilers / etc. would actually find useful? Please let me know - discuss in this thread or email me: mwillmon@boostingsystems.com

Thanks for taking the time to read my mini-novel here.

It can be done, it has been done, and your right, it , it can work.

one thing that your message had a little bit incorrect, was the power coming from the Alternator. Actually, on large current draws, it comes from the battery and the alternator replaces current in proportion to voltage drop OF the battery. So, a large load will bring the system voltage down, and then the alternator will respond by trying to replace the current based on the voltage drop of the battery. larger the voltage drop, greater the current from the alternator. a battery in good shape, can handle short duration hits of high current without issues.

The fact that the eRAM is a 700watt device, giving 1psi of net pressure change in the intake, is reason for its 5% gains on the dyno.


We actually need a Acura integra for an updated dyno run, if anyone is interested and lives in San Jose , Ca.

let us know,

mk

Alright If you can do Dyno's of several Integra's, GSR's and the LS's... also list what modifications it had done to it already (Intake/exhuast...) and if it proved to be a deisent increase i would probley buy one.... I'm still not sure i fully belive it, make more sence after reading your artical though

Kyle

sounds like crap... id be amazed if the electric one provided 1/4 of the power a regular sort would with the same pricetag.

of course if they are proved better, the line starts behind me :flash:

The gains are only 5% , or 10hp on a 200 hp to the rear wheel car.

Doesnt matter what you have done to your engine. even adds 5% to a mild turbo system, providing the max hp with the turbo, is under 240hp or so. (remember, total boost equals ambient pressure + boost pressure) we (the eRAM) changes ambient pressure by about 1psi.

yes, it does work, and works for all the right reasons.

We have a dyno guarantee on the site as well. check out the site and see the dyno runs. belive me, if it didnt work, it wouldnt be on our race car, (and others that we see every month at the diffenent events!)

MK


Originally posted by blazed on haze :\
sounds like crap... id be amazed if the electric one provided 1/4 of the power a regular sort would with the same pricetag.

of course if they are proved better, the line starts behind me :flash:

how exactly do you plan on bypassing the compresor wheel when its no longer making power?

as you stated earlier, our small displacement engines make power at very high rpms where there are high flow requirements. the problem with current electric supercharges is the restriction they cause. so you gain a little power (very little) on lower rpms only to lose it on high rpms where its really needed. not only does it taper off to 0%, but instead decrease well below stock.

"What I'm proposing is a solution that can safely provide about 4.5 psi boost at low engine speeds, providing a torque curve very much like the JRSC up around 4500 RPM, and then blending off into the natural HP peak of the engine."
so you're claiming a 40ft lbs torque increase from 4.5psi...I highly doubt that...on top of that you claim "no sacrifices and better fuel economy." come back to reality. if you want to make power you'll need to burn fuel. an electric supercharger, much like a turbo, will make the engine somewhat more efficient. just not 40tq worth. and btw a jrsc makes power much earlier than 4500rpm. even my t3/t04 is fully spooled by 4k rpm, a t28 spools like at 2.3k

I'd like to see dyno comparisons/pictures when you get them

I see this threads kind'a dead, But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested in the concept of an electric turbo. After browsing the forums I've noticed a lack of people who've had problems with them. A lot of people are dead set against the thought of them, but make no mention of trying them. And the people who've tried them are praising them or at least give them their OK.

I'm not counted cheap scams off of Ebay and the like, I'm talking about real companies that offer them and back them up with return policies and such.

Has anybody that's tried a brand name electric turbo had problems or didn't like the result?

I plan on giving one a try when I get a newer truck (hopefully within 6 months). I've got a '91 Cavelier now and it'd be too much of a hassle to equip any kind of turbo (it's TBI). When I try I'll post the results... Whether they be good or bad.

ill test it if ya give me one for free :biggrin: and ill make sure i tell everyone i know about it and so on so forth i have a 92 integra gs when doing this dont only test 3rd gen tegs make sure you do some 2nd gen's too also ya might go post a thread on www.g2ic.com in the products forum

i see electric blowers on ebay all the time.

Always believed they were just a load of crap, but you seem to have brought new light upon them.

plz keep us posted.