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po172 & po175???????


prendy
01-13-2007, 04:00 PM
i thought these codes might be attributed to the isolater bolt issue thats going around so i just got done with it and im still having the same problem that i started with which is stalling and surging. the van just got a full tune-up, iac valve, dpfe and frustration is setting in. i know the codes i,m having are (system adaptive fuel to rich bank 1) and (system adaptive fuel too rich bank 2) does anyone have any idea what these codes actually mean and what might be causing it?? could the mass airflow sensor be the culprit? or some other type of sensor. thanks in advance

reekor
01-13-2007, 06:00 PM
Your Mass Air Flow Sensor could be dirty or faulty.



i thought these codes might be attributed to the isolater bolt issue thats going around so i just got done with it and im still having the same problem that i started with which is stalling and surging. the van just got a full tune-up, iac valve, dpfe and frustration is setting in. i know the codes i,m having are (system adaptive fuel to rich bank 1) and (system adaptive fuel too rich bank 2) does anyone have any idea what these codes actually mean and what might be causing it?? could the mass airflow sensor be the culprit? or some other type of sensor. thanks in advance

prendy
01-13-2007, 06:58 PM
thanks but would a bad MAF throw these codes of p0172 & p0175?

wiswind
01-13-2007, 07:34 PM
If you decide to clean the MAF, I posted pictures that show where to spray with non-residue electronic cleaner.
The idea is to spray the cleaner so that it flows through the hollow cross member, and out the hole on the opposite end and side.
This will clean the 2 thermal sensors that are located inside.

I do not know if the MAF would cause those codes or not....but it is one of the cheaper things that you can do.

reekor
01-13-2007, 07:53 PM
P0175 OBD-II Trouble Code
Technical Description

System Too Rich (Bank 2)
What does that mean?

Basically this means that an oxygen sensor in bank 2detected a rich condition (too little oxygen in the exhaust). On V6/V8/V10 engines, Bank 2 is the side of the engine that doesn't have cylinder #1.

Note: This DTC is very similar to P0172, and in fact your vehicle may show both codes at the same time.
Symptoms

You will more than likely not notice any drivability problems, although there may be symptoms such as a misfire.
Causes

A code P0175 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

* The MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor is dirty or faulty. Note: The use of "oiled" air filters (K&N, etc.) can cause the MAF to become dirty if the filter is over-oiled
* There could be a vacuum leak.
* There could be a fuel pressure or delivery problem

Possible Solutions

Possible solutions include:

* Inspect all vacuum and PCV hoses, replace if necessary
* Cleanthe MAF sensor. Consult your service manual for it's location if you need help. I find it's best to take it off and spray it with electronics cleaner or brake cleaner. Make sure you are careful not to damage the MAF sensor, and make sure it's dry before reinstalling
* Inspect fuel lines for cracks, leaks, or pinches
* Check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail
* Check the fuel injectors, they may be dirty. Use fuel injector cleaner or get them professionally cleaned/replaced.
* Check for an exhaust leak before the first oxygen sensor (this is unlikely to cause the problem, but it is possible)


P0172 OBD-II Trouble Code
Technical Description

System Too Rich (Bank 1)
What does that mean?

Basically this means that an oxygen sensor in bank 1 detected a rich condition (too little oxygen in the exhaust). On V6/V8/V10 engines, Bank 1 is the side of the engine that has cylinder #1.

Note: This DTC is very similar to P0175, and in fact your vehicle may show both codes at the same time.
Symptoms

You will more than likely not notice any drivability problems, although there may be symptoms such as a misfire.
Causes

A code P0172 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

* The MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor is dirty or faulty. Note: The use of "oiled" air filters (K&N, etc.) can cause the MAF to become dirty if the filter is over-oiled
* There could be a vacuum leak.
* There could be a fuel pressure or delivery problem

Possible Solutions

Possible solutions include:

* Inspect all vacuum and PCV hoses, replace if necessary
* Cleanthe MAF sensor. Consult your service manual for it's location if you need help. I find it's best to take it off and spray it with electronics cleaner or brake cleaner. Make sure you are careful not to damage the MAF sensor, and make sure it's dry before reinstalling
* Inspect fuel lines for cracks, leaks, or pinches
* Check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail
* Check the fuel injectors, they may be dirty. Use fuel injector cleaner or get them professionally cleaned/replaced.
* Check for an exhaust leak before the first oxygen sensor (this is unlikely to cause the problem, but it is possible)

prendy
01-13-2007, 08:10 PM
wow! reekor thanks thats exactly what i was looking for at least now i have something more to go on. it did mention fuel delivery issues, this may be a stupid question but when i changed the fuel filter i assumed that the arrow on the filter pointed towards the front of the vehicle. is this correct

reekor
01-13-2007, 09:09 PM
The arrow shows flow direction, since the gas flows from rear to front (tank to engine) this is correct. Check your fuel return line make sure that it is not plugged/ blocked. I have seen someone change their filter and clamping the plastic fuel return line to the hose clamp that holds the fuel filter into its housing and they started getting the came codes as you are. Just a thought.


wow! reekor thanks thats exactly what i was looking for at least now i have something more to go on. it did mention fuel delivery issues, this may be a stupid question but when i changed the fuel filter i assumed that the arrow on the filter pointed towards the front of the vehicle. is this correct

prendy
01-14-2007, 02:09 PM
I have been tooling around trying to figure out what is ailing this van while the vehicle was warmed up i shut it off and unplugged the maf electrical connector and restarted the van and it ran fine without stalling i ran it through all gears(didn,t stall) and shut the vehicle off then reconnected the maf connector tried starting it and stalled everytime after starting. i did this a few times as to knock out coincidence. i priced the maf sensor at the local auto parts and they wanted $147 for it. does this sound like it could be the problem as i don,t want to shotgun any more parts.

wiswind
01-14-2007, 02:50 PM
You might have luck on ebay......in fact.....It would be a true OEM part.
A number of salvage yards list parts on ebay....and I see quite a selection.
Do a search under...... 'your year' windstar 'part name' to find parts.
I have read posts where people questioned the quality of the aftermarket units....but I do not know from personal experience.

However, I would try cleaning yours first....as it is possible that is all it needs.
Does not take much dirt to really mess it up.....and it is so simple to clean.

While you are at it.....in the flex hose....there is another sensor....you will find it by the wires going to it......you can spray it off with the same non-residue electronic cleaner.......don't touch it.
This sensor is the intake air temperature sensor.

reekor
01-14-2007, 10:59 PM
I have very rarely seen them go bad, but they do from time to time. Try cleaning it with brake cleaner and see if that helps, if not try eBay or the wreckers for another one.


I have been tooling around trying to figure out what is ailing this van while the vehicle was warmed up i shut it off and unplugged the maf electrical connector and restarted the van and it ran fine without stalling i ran it through all gears(didn,t stall) and shut the vehicle off then reconnected the maf connector tried starting it and stalled everytime after starting. i did this a few times as to knock out coincidence. i priced the maf sensor at the local auto parts and they wanted $147 for it. does this sound like it could be the problem as i don,t want to shotgun any more parts.

huskerdooo
01-18-2007, 04:05 PM
My 2 cents:

If you have a scan tool, see if while the MAF is disconnected the system is still in the closed loop mode. Removal of the MAF may make the thing go open loop. If that is the case, open loop operation might be ignoring another issue that isn't the MAF. (System runs in a defualt mode of operation)

If you do have a scan tool... you can view the MAF value anyway to see if its in a valid range.

Other than that, Ford says the following will cause rich codes:

Fuel system:
Excessive fuel pressure.
Leaking/contaminated fuel injectors.
Leaking fuel pressure regulator.
Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel.
Vapor recovery system.

Induction system:
Air leaks after the MAF.
Vacuum Leaks.
PCV system.
Improperly seated engine oil dipstick.

EGR system:
Leaking gasket.
Stuck EGR valve.
Leaking diaphragm or EVR.

Base Engine:
Oil overfill.
Cam timing.
Cylinder compression.
Exhaust leaks before or near the HO2Ss.

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