DISCUSS:how to make better WIP thread

hello guys~in the last days of 2006 i did a look-over of my threads posted in 2006,i found i made crapy WIP threads.reasonless arranging of pics,lacking introducing,important steps,bad and unsized pics and so on.i always appreciate wonderful WIP threads like what MPWR,robi,gio,hiroboy and some other masters in AF does.and also stuned by very creative and impressive WIP thread like klutzie's 36H challenge or Mr.Ping&Pong's 15,000 miles double thread(that's my thread of the year :evillol: ) but there're also some very cool works without a decent WIP thread...i think WIP thread is the most important part for people to study and share,so i'd love to hear from you guys about this topic.what do you think are the factors of a decent,helpful WIP thread.what pics are necessary,what steps should be described detailed and what should be done compendiary?what kind of introductions are helpful etc.thank you very much guys!

em...one point,i always like to see people put the box of the model and stuff they will apply as a starting,i think that's necessary.i am always thinking of what kit this is when reading some one's thread,you know it's different among asia,europe and the US,we can seldom buy stuff like italeri,AMT etc.

I fully agree with you about WIP threads - for me they too are the most important part of AF (sorry to say, I rarely visit the completed section).

For me the perfect WIP shows and tells about the smallest details/techniques used, what went wrong and why, how problems were solved. LOTS of well lit, in-focus close up pictures sized to 640x480 and at about 50KB each.

What I like to read about is how the builder painted that difficult little part? what paint he used? what did he use to mask with? what is that metal gizmo he used for spark plugs? etc etc THE MORE DETAIL AND INFORMATION THE BETTER!!

I know from personal experience that this is time consuming and sometimes frustrating but I honestly see it as part of my "pay back" for all the help I have got out of this (and other) forum. If that extra time spent helps out someone else than that's good. Also it's a nice feeling when someone says "hey! that's cool!" :D

(sorry to say, I rarely visit the completed section).


same here :(

I think what I'm most tired of seeing are pics and no descriptions. It's especially rampant in the Completed section, but it certainly happens in the In Progress sections as well. What's the point of posting four pics of your latest completion and not saying anything about it? :banghead: If the builder can't be bothered to say anything about the model they put together, why should anyone else bother? :disappoin Show and tell.

What kit did you use? How did you build it? What paint did you use? How did you paint it? What did you do to it? How long did it take you? Do you like the car? Do you like the kit? Do you like your build? What would you do different? What are you particullarly happy with? What did you learn, and how did you learn it?

And it's exactly the same with a progress thread- just way more so. The best threads are those that provide the most details. (Unless I've got it all wrong. Hey, if I'm puting too many pics and words into my build threads, somebody needs to tell me! :uhoh:)

1st: Tang my friend, I guess is a bit unfair you put a badass asshole like me is side of those cool guys LOL BTW you forgot people that're REALLY master like skylinefan, hiroaky, scalemaster, rob, phil, and (forgot??) alex, and a lot following..


2nd: Andy: I agree and, despite it cost me much and I do shitty, I do too much unuseful word and some pics more than needed but: but I dunno blame peoles that write less or nothing: what times occurred that someone ask something that you already wrote? (well to be honest happened also to me to browse AF like a comic book when kid, just watching picts LOL)

BTW: first of all, increase members photo skills. Seeing at AFMOTY entries, someone done some street on this topic. I have to work in.

Anf for me and you Tang, may be useful learn a bit more of english LOL

ciao my friend

(mooning) LOL

sorry to say, I rarely visit the completed section

there's a completed section?

:p

klutz, MPWR et al have pretty much summed up my thoughts, but i'll add this - one thing i'm always thankful for is when someone explains a problem they encountered and shows us their solution. for example, the rear engine cover of Tamiya's F40 doesn't line up with the body and chassis, and MPWR showed us a relatively easy way of correcting it. tips like that are worth their weight in gold.

Hmm... I'll play the other side of the coin here. It may be partially because I'm so busy with so many builds, but I tend to do a fair bit of work, then take pictures, do an update, then do some more work, etc etc... And sometimes little things I could have photographed to make the WIP "better" get done before I can take pictures. It also has to do with sitting over on this side of the room doing work, and then having to carry everything over to the photo booth, set it up, light it, set up the camera, and then take the pics. For me it's a fairly huge hassle, and I mean that in the best possible way, because I *do* enjoy taking the pics and making a WIP thread for people to interact with.

But I do agree 100% on providing more details than just the pictures. I try my best to include thoughts on the progress so far, what parts I'm using, etc etc... Mind you I also tend to put together a more concise summary of those in my COMPLETED thread (which apparently many of you don't read :p ) ...

Here's a suggestion: How about we come up with a common template for both WIP and COMPLETED threads, which includes things like what kit, body colour, interior colour, wheels, engine, aftermarket parts, etc etc? Worst case people can just paste it in there and put "N/A" for the things they're not sure of yet... But it would help remind those creating the threads of what to put in it.

Just a thought.

Making more and more rules for how to operate here will just discourage posters. While I am a big, big fan of the detailed WIPs (which I am guilty of not supporting), it shouldn't be a prerequisite. I'd rather see things with no description than not see them at all. I can always ask questions, and hope the poster replies. Detailed threads are the best, of course, but anything is better than no thread.

I usually post updates as I complete different parts. Instead of showing a step by step of a motor build I will post the finished motor. I agree that it would me nice to see more detailed descriptions but wouldn't that turn the WIP into a "How To" forum? Which, by the way, I wouldn't mind seeing some new threads there. I think that if someone is going to use an "out of the orinary" building technique, or a really custom paint job that it would be nice to have a description and some detailed pictures of how it was done. I, for one, always want to learm more about how to build better models, especially body mods and lowering techniques. A template is not a bad idea for a basic starting point, but with too many builds I am not even sure what color I am going to paint until I am well into the project. :icon16:

i totally agree with you guys and enjoy reading your comments,thanks!
hi will:i agree with you honestly,each has his way to do anything,that's great to see something different!but i think we are not talking about some rules or criterions,just discuss about how to do better in our own way,so just pick up what you need.but i do think there's something could be used for reference,like puting your box on top of your thread,pics sized to 640X480(and remember typing an "Enter" after your pic links),trying to describe what you have done and why you do this and so on,sharing the problem you got and how you solve it...i think these are helpful and valuable anyway.
gio my friend:i'm sorry i forgot the masters you mentioned,there're too many,really!!but i'm sure i didn't put a wrong name in the list :sunglasse (anyway you're right he's a big badass LOL)
klutzie and D LaMz:i was just like you,seldom go to the complete section,but i gradually changed,i found it's full of fun going to the complete section and watching people's complete models,i really enjoy that now!!!it's amazing to see the final result after all the effort puting in front of you,and sharing the success of someone.you can also learn a lot from the complete model no less than what you can do from the WIPs. anyway it's unfair and make no sence to ignore a complete work after you devoted your mind to its WIP thread and was waiting for its finished,right?:grinyes:

I love a good WIP, but you guys that say you never visit the completed section are seriously missing out. I also feel it's a little insulting to the modelers that share their building techniques to not check out the finished works. I use the term "works" because to me, modeling is an art form and deserves to be viewed as such. You wouldn't watch a painter work on a painting and not want to see the finished piece would you? I just don't get it..

...you guys that say you never visit the completed section are seriously missing out. I also feel it's a little insulting to the modelers that share their building techniques to not check out the finished works... Just to be a little defensive here, I said "rarely" and not "never" ;)
I actually just checked and in fact I have posted in about 75% of all threads on the first page of the completed forum.

What I meant to say was that while I visit the WIP section several times a day, I tend to visit the completed forum section once per week.

In effect, I look in on every WIP but I'm sure I miss some completed - but that's the way I use the forum.

I show my suport for members by posting approval/encouragement/suggestions/thanks for tips etc. during the building process which I think is more usefull and just as "nice" as a pat on the back after it's all done ;)
I certainly don't think I am insulting anyone if I don't post in their thread as it is not possible/desirable to post everywhere - so let me say now WELL DONE to everyone whose thread I didn't post in :)

@ Tang - another important part of a WIP I think is typing clearly.

Use paragraphs and extra space between them to "lighten" the text and ease reading.

Avoiding long blocks of text encourages reading while long blocks (like yours above ;) ) are hard to read through to the end. :*

@ Tang - another important part of a WIP I think is typing clearly.

Use paragraphs and extra space between them to "lighten" the text and ease reading.

Avoiding long blocks of text encourages reading while long blocks (like yours above ;) ) are hard to read through to the end. :*
thanks a lot for your kind suggestion buddy~~will follow it~~ :grinyes:

Hello,

excellent subject here, thanks !

Well, what I personaly try to put or how I put it in a WIP to make it interesting...?

- introducing the build: talking about the model is normal, but I think that introducing a bit the car too may people understand our personnal interest to the model. Why this car, Why this driver, Why this rally (for my part) etc ?

- showing the progress the closest possible: each part or almost each part could have its meaning in the model, especially what is scratch built.

- good pics: not easy for everyone, we are modellers ! :evillol: seriously I personnaly use a Canon EOS 300 D, with the autofocus close up pics are almost impossible to get perfect... But I try to, better will be the pics, higher will be the lust to follow the thread...

- Good explanations: I may have to check my own thread about that but "I painted the part" is less interesting than "How I painted the part" even if some of these things are so evident...

- updating often: of course it's easier to say than to do, but I think that keeping attention depends on how often you update a thread.
I take only one example: Sean Stratos Thread: following such a detailled thread day after day or almost take all its sens, according to me the most detailled are given the most often the thread should be updated, simply to really feel progressing with the build. What would you feel if someone is detailling a full engine and give updates all 2 weeks ? you may feel you're missing something...
Of course on the other hand updating for each bolt you put would be too much ! :iceslolan

- Answering questions : That's important, if you expect people to follow your work answer all questions the most precisely possible.
I personnaly let threads fall down because I was never answered... What' the interest in a thread if you get no interest when reacting to ?

- lot of pics but not too much : I don't have a very performing Internet band, so when the thread contents too much pics I sometimes let it fall down...
no need to put 36 pics of the front right or the exhaust.
Prefer checking you posted at least one pic of all the car sides and sens !
I sometimes have seen 8 or 9 pics of a sens view, and nothing about another sens view... (especially in completed section that's rigt, but sometimes in WIP section too).


that's what I think about WIPs ! :wink:
... and would have to do or improve myself ! :naughty:

Phil

hello guys~in the last days of 2006 i did a look-over of my threads posted in 2006,i found i made crapy WIP threads.reasonless arranging of pics,lacking introducing,important steps,bad and unsized pics and so on.i always appreciate wonderful WIP threads like what MPWR,robi,gio,hiroboy and some other masters in AF does.and also stuned by very creative and impressive WIP thread like klutzie's 36H challenge or Mr.Ping&Pong's 15,000 miles double thread(that's my thread of the year :evillol: ) but there're also some very cool works without a decent WIP thread...i think WIP thread is the most important part for people to study and share,so i'd love to hear from you guys about this topic.what do you think are the factors of a decent,helpful WIP thread.what pics are necessary,what steps should be described detailed and what should be done compendiary?what kind of introductions are helpful etc.thank you very much guys!

Personally I don't even bother to read text like this. Capital letters at the beginning of a sentence and punctuation at the end make a huge difference.

Personally I don't even bother to read text like this. Capital letters at the beginning of a sentence and punctuation at the end make a huge difference.

Try to do it in Chinese :D
BTW you're right :)

I agree with a lot of what's been said here. For me, I love threads showing the phases of how something was built. Not only does it give me ideas for building, but it motivates me. Andy, Rob, Stevenski, and Gio are perfect examples of this. I love how Andy will post a part, and then come back and repost with pictures showing each step for maching a part. His air cleaner on his Lotus S3 is a prime example, which can be viewed here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4473673&postcount=21).

I know how you say its a lot of work to set up for taking photos. I understand how that is. I have to take shots on a solid back drop for them to be acceptable for the magazine editor. I too have to clean off my bench, set up the backdrop, lighting, take the pictures, and then preview before I move on.

However, for work in progress pictures showing the build of a part can be taken on your bench, just move some of the clutter around it. Then the final part can be photographed with your backdrop and perfect lighting. Thats what I do when I am demonstrating how a part was machined on the lathe or mill.

For me, I try to take as many pictures as I possibly can and then I archive them for reference, tutorials, or use them to answer questions. I wont post all of them. I do post them all on my Fotki, and soon my website.

Just my $.02

First of all, the forum is not really made for making progress threads. It's a hassle. Uploading pics somewhere and linking them into each post etc. People change their picture accounts and old, but really interesting threads you want to read tends to die with the picture links...

I would also like to be able to see if a thread with 14 new posts has actually been updated by the builder, or if it's just 14 posts saying "awesome"..

In a perfect world It should be more like a project page with possibilities for people to make comments.
But the good thing is the amount of activity. Theres plenty to see here every day.

I think one important thing is to select a few good pictures to post.
I try to think: What do I want to show with this pic?
Seeing 5 almost identical pictures with just slight difference in angle wich is not so interesting.

And as someone said, a standard curbside build maybe doesn't need to be wery detailed if there isn't a special detail or technique that could be interesting.

I agree with most of what has been said here. However, I find it difficult sometimes because I simply don't have TIME. The problem is that my only decent Internet connection is at my dad's auto repair shop. This is on our property; however, when I am there, he expects me to be working, not using the computer. So, I rarely get a chance to do updates.

As a result, my threads get buried and become hard to find (without search features), and my updates are huge. For example, I have started an AMT 1969 Firebird, to which I have done massive amounts of fabrication work (in an attempt to make the model somewhat realistic :disappoin ). I currently have 67 pictures of this model and have not yet posted! Such huge updates are undoubtedly overwhelming, scaring people from reading my thread if they only have a few minutes to look at it.

Of course, this is sort of a personal problem. But this is often the cause for insufficient textual details in my case. I am actually doing these posts from school, because I can do that. However, I cannot access Photobucket from school (it is a blocked site), and thus cannot make updates to my threads. Additionally, I can only view a few threads of other people, because in most threads, the pictures are all blocked...

Just my problems--but perhaps similar to other people's.

Well, to be honest, there is a lot of COMPLETED threads where there's nothing TO say except "awesome." I try to throw in specific comments about what I like or don't personally like (paint job, wheels) and if there's something that could use improvement, I then offer a critique. I expect the same in my threads.

I do agree that proper punctuation and capitals at the beginning of sentences really does make it a lot easier for me to read; but I also understand that there's lots of AFers who don't speak English as a first language, so I keep my mouth shut on such things. They're doing the best they can.

(sorry if someone has said this already, I'm in a rush)
One suggestion I'd like to make is that people should post updates of their cars right on the first post. For example, people should make their first post and later on when they made some progress they'd like to show, they should edit the first post, add a break and the date right after what was last written in that post and then add the changes with pictures listed.

The way people do it right now is really messy and unorganized. After a few weeks or so when modelers post their next update, there has already been about a page or two of comments between the update being posted and the update made earlier, which destroys the continuity. This also makes it a burden for those just looking at old WIPs because they have to find the next update etc.

Just a thought. I really think this is worth it.

Coming up with a wip that is both informative and interesting is something I still try to work on and develop. Descriptions are important as well as bright clear in focus pictures but I understand not all of us are as handy with a camera as an x-acto knife so that's ok with me. I dont feel having 37 pics of the exhaust from different angles is of interest to anyone. There are some very great wip's here and they are the ones where they take you from a box of sprue on an evolutionary trip to something that can be proudly displayed by the builder. It really doesnt have to be complicated and these builders dont even have to be great modellers. But when I open a wip for the first time and see an unpainted, untouched body sitting on 4 tires from 7 different exciting angles, I move on. Also, I dont understand why people smear some putty on a body, and take a picture of that, usually again from 7 different sensual angles. I mean, really who cares about that? How about showing how the putty is sanded and what grit was used for the people that are just starting to learn how to use putty. I also love the wip where a person installs the steering wheel and takes a picture of that. I feel most modellers here are smarter then they let on and the builder should recognise this and provide a wip that doesnt insult their intelligence, but providing a clear and constructive update on their project and it doesnt have to be only about things that most of us cant do. (making PE parts and casting and lathe work, for example) It can still be all about simple clean techniques to keep people coming back. I really enjoy a nice wip even if I dont learn a thing, as long as the builder is aware of people reading his notes and is happy to answer questions. If a person has a wip going and finds barely any responses to it, I would say that maybe he/she try a different approach. There are some builders here that keep me coming back and usually it's subjects I would never build or even be interested in building. They are just fun and I try to learn from them not just modelling techniques but the whole wip process.

Not to drag this thread on forever, but there is another frustrating occurance in the WIP section. The "short-on-time" post. It's usually a thread starting post that includes the apology "Sorry for the blurry pic but I'm headed out the door!" and a blurry pic from an odd angle, that frankly looks like it was taken while heading out the door.

Now, I understand building a model, and sharing it, is exciting. I know that we're all eager to post pictures of our latest work and want comments as soon as possible. But you know what? All of us will survive waiting a day to post a model, and we'll all survive waiting a day to see a model. A fully fleshed out post is far, far preferable to a "teaser" post. If a builder hasn't time to tell us what's going on, then why should we waste time looking? Just wait until tomorrow, when you're not headed out the door, to take a couple more pictures and to think about what needs to be said about the model, before posting.

That's all that's really required. Effort into posts is as important as effor into models.

I don't care for the WIP threads that have no pictures when they're posted but promise pictures "soon". I really want to delete those threads.

I'd like to add something else. I don't mean to be a stickler or anything, but...

in the WIP forum, is it necessary to write "W.I.P" in the thread title?
( :P :P :P )

Personally I would like to see a completed gallery for each of the W.I.P. galleries. If I go into the completed gallery I only look at builds that I'm interested in seeing. How about a completed street, completed motorsport, completed motorbike and completed muscle car/hot rod gallery instead of just one for everything? I noticed that some of you don't look at the completed gallery, maybe if you could go directly to the gallery you are interested in you might look a little more. I like to check them out because there are so many great builds that I often get some ideas on what I might want to do.:2cents:

Personally I would like to see a completed gallery for each of the W.I.P. galleries.

Oh please, just don't go there. :disappoin I almost left AF after the last subdivision fiasco (anyone else remember the Memorial Day Massacre?). This place simply does not need to get any more subdivided and cliquey. I fondly remember the days before the divisions, when there was only In Progress/Completed, and all models and all modelers were welcome. At least we all still share the Completed area as common. What's next, a subdivision of the general area as well? :shakehead

Oh please, just don't go there. :disappoin I almost left AF after the last subdivision fiasco (anyone else remember the Memorial Day Massacre?). This place simply does not need to get any more subdivided and cliquey. I fondly remember the days before the divisions, when there was only In Progress/Completed, and all models and all modelers were welcome. At least we all still share the Completed area as common. What's next, a subdivision of the general area as well? :shakehead
I wasn't talking about the general area and I don't know anything about any "Memorial Day Massacre". That must have been before I joined. It was just my opinion, I didn't think I was suggesting anything that was taboo.

Personally I would like to see a completed gallery for each of the W.I.P. galleries. If I go into the completed gallery I only look at builds that I'm interested in seeing. How about a completed street, completed motorsport, completed motorbike and completed muscle car/hot rod gallery instead of just one for everything? I noticed that some of you don't look at the completed gallery, maybe if you could go directly to the gallery you are interested in you might look a little more. I like to check them out because there are so many great builds that I often get some ideas on what I might want to do.:2cents:

I like it the way it is already. I personally like to see finished models from every 'category', and generally look at every completed thread, so it saves me the hassle of clicking back and forth between forums. I think it's easy enough to see what threads you want to click on and which you don't, most are labeled clearly enough.. for those that are more "selective".

The idea of sub-divided completed galleries isn't by itself a bad idea; IF there was sufficient input to warrent it. If we were getting 50+ completed models every day for each catagory then fine but as it stands, it makes no sense to separate them into sub forums that might not get a new posting for x months.
There's also the fact that there is nothing wrong with a universal completed gallary.

One thing though, I think that you should think carefully about what you post as a comment in someone's completed thread. After all there comes a point when "wow, cool model" or the like doesn't really need to be said and I'm pretty sure that in most cases, that isn't what is meant when the author asks for "comments".

IMHO, once "we" divided the group into sub-forums, the "completed" sub-forum should have been also. Watching a WIP in the Motorsports sub-forum and then having to look for it among the mishmash that's posted in the "completed" sub-forum get's old after awhile.

Bill

IMHO, once "we" divided the group into sub-forums, the "completed" sub-forum should have been also. Watching a WIP in the Motorsports sub-forum and then having to look for it among the mishmash that's posted in the "completed" sub-forum get's old after awhile.

Bill
When I finished the build of my custom 68 firebird I noticed there were over 1000 views so when I posted in the completed gallery I also posted a link to the completed gallery in my last WIP post. I think this would be a good idea for anybody.