That it seems to you 350z?
pitilin1
09-20-2002, 02:07 PM
As they are your impressions of 350z, I have been reading analisis and segun some "professionals" the car is not great thing to apesar of its motor, emphasize that it has many negative aspects, gustaria to know to me if it is certain that the car is not as good as thinks
digerydingo
09-20-2002, 02:34 PM
Dude, I don't know what you where really trying to ask but from what I have heard is that the car is great except for two main areas. The weight and the inherent understeer through corners. Now, seeing as how I am used to driving very light and nimble cars, this was a huge turn off for me, until I heard about the track package and the potential in the aftermarket community. After researching it some more I decided to go with the 350Z over the Honda S2000 because of what I saw comming on the horizon and the big fat 18' Volks.
With the car needing to shed a good 150-200lbs I figure Carbon Fiber hood and titanium exhaust are good candidates. Shifting weight to the back, like moving the battery to the trunk and halfing some of the fluid resevoirs should help with the understeer problem. If in the end I am still unsatisfied, I plan to slap on a larger rear anty sway bar and that should neutralize the cars handling good.
I think the 350Z is an excellent car.... for it's price. There will always be sacrifices when dealing with a production car but if it's in your price range it will spank anything equal and lower then it. If you matching it versus cars 20Gs or more, it'll give them a really, really hard time but in the end you get what you pay for and I'm getting a 350Z!
With the car needing to shed a good 150-200lbs I figure Carbon Fiber hood and titanium exhaust are good candidates. Shifting weight to the back, like moving the battery to the trunk and halfing some of the fluid resevoirs should help with the understeer problem. If in the end I am still unsatisfied, I plan to slap on a larger rear anty sway bar and that should neutralize the cars handling good.
I think the 350Z is an excellent car.... for it's price. There will always be sacrifices when dealing with a production car but if it's in your price range it will spank anything equal and lower then it. If you matching it versus cars 20Gs or more, it'll give them a really, really hard time but in the end you get what you pay for and I'm getting a 350Z!
Ophitoxaemia
09-20-2002, 03:59 PM
weight distribution actually doesnt have that much effect on the steer characteristics of a car (oversteer/understeer) in my experience tuning autocross and track cars.
sway bar tuning is the most desireable way to tune steer characteristics. spring rates also work, but then you are changing the relationship to the shocks (which tend to be extremely refined these days)
typically car companies tune the suspension, then "dumb it down" by adding understeer which is easiest for the general public to deal with. the rear bar is one of the easiest and safest ways to do this.
so the fact that virtually all production cars understeer isnt anything thats built into the car, nor is it difficult to fix.
-james
sway bar tuning is the most desireable way to tune steer characteristics. spring rates also work, but then you are changing the relationship to the shocks (which tend to be extremely refined these days)
typically car companies tune the suspension, then "dumb it down" by adding understeer which is easiest for the general public to deal with. the rear bar is one of the easiest and safest ways to do this.
so the fact that virtually all production cars understeer isnt anything thats built into the car, nor is it difficult to fix.
-james
dbiggss
09-20-2002, 04:04 PM
As they are your impressions of 350z, I have been reading analisis and segun some "professionals" the car is not great thing to apesar of its motor, emphasize that it has many negative aspects, gustaria to know to me if it is certain that the car is not as good as thinks
Translation???:rolleyes: :hehe:
Translation???:rolleyes: :hehe:
pitilin1
09-20-2002, 04:53 PM
Sorry, I'm from spain and I don'nt speak english, I use a traslaitor english-spanish.
digerydingo
09-20-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Ophitoxaemia
weight distribution actually doesnt have that much effect on the steer characteristics of a car (oversteer/understeer) in my experience tuning autocross and track cars.
sway bar tuning is the most desireable way to tune steer characteristics. spring rates also work, but then you are changing the relationship to the shocks (which tend to be extremely refined these days)
typically car companies tune the suspension, then "dumb it down" by adding understeer which is easiest for the general public to deal with. the rear bar is one of the easiest and safest ways to do this.
so the fact that virtually all production cars understeer isnt anything thats built into the car, nor is it difficult to fix.
-james
Very true, but from almost all the articles I've read pertaining to the Z is that you need to enter a corner aggressively fast, bordering on too fast, and then use generous amounts of throttle (without TC of course) to get the rear to step out. This tells me the car has a more then the usual understeer problem that may not be as simple to overcome. Reviewers of cars with similar HP usualy mention a nice power oversteer when the throttle is applied but in the Z sound as if they had difficulty preventing the car from plowing, even when they really wanted to slide the back around. Plus there's the rear multilink set-up I don't know too much about. How a sway bar connects, would it affect the underbody aerodynamics and such.
Transfering weight actually makes a big difference provided you can move enough of it. If you can pull enough weight off the front to shift at least 1 more percent to the rear, it would help the neutralize the car much more. That's the reason most race teams would rather pull weight off the car (especially off the extremities i.e. in front of the wheels) if they can and add it as ballast in the drivers compartment to better distribute the weight and still make minimum. Autocrossing has an abundance of sharp left to right trasitions where it is more easy to exceed the traction of the tires long before the weight can be properly trasfered. Try a track you can really open it up and add as little as 50lbs in front of the front wheels for say 10laps then take it away, you'll notice it, big time.
weight distribution actually doesnt have that much effect on the steer characteristics of a car (oversteer/understeer) in my experience tuning autocross and track cars.
sway bar tuning is the most desireable way to tune steer characteristics. spring rates also work, but then you are changing the relationship to the shocks (which tend to be extremely refined these days)
typically car companies tune the suspension, then "dumb it down" by adding understeer which is easiest for the general public to deal with. the rear bar is one of the easiest and safest ways to do this.
so the fact that virtually all production cars understeer isnt anything thats built into the car, nor is it difficult to fix.
-james
Very true, but from almost all the articles I've read pertaining to the Z is that you need to enter a corner aggressively fast, bordering on too fast, and then use generous amounts of throttle (without TC of course) to get the rear to step out. This tells me the car has a more then the usual understeer problem that may not be as simple to overcome. Reviewers of cars with similar HP usualy mention a nice power oversteer when the throttle is applied but in the Z sound as if they had difficulty preventing the car from plowing, even when they really wanted to slide the back around. Plus there's the rear multilink set-up I don't know too much about. How a sway bar connects, would it affect the underbody aerodynamics and such.
Transfering weight actually makes a big difference provided you can move enough of it. If you can pull enough weight off the front to shift at least 1 more percent to the rear, it would help the neutralize the car much more. That's the reason most race teams would rather pull weight off the car (especially off the extremities i.e. in front of the wheels) if they can and add it as ballast in the drivers compartment to better distribute the weight and still make minimum. Autocrossing has an abundance of sharp left to right trasitions where it is more easy to exceed the traction of the tires long before the weight can be properly trasfered. Try a track you can really open it up and add as little as 50lbs in front of the front wheels for say 10laps then take it away, you'll notice it, big time.
Ophitoxaemia
09-20-2002, 06:53 PM
ive had to use the technique you describe (toss in and claw out) with most of the recent production cars ive autocrossed (oh man the WRX for one!)- i think its because they are engineered to be SO stable it is frustrating for experienced drivers to get it out on an acceptable slip angle.
on the big track you are right, you can notice smaller changes in balance cuz you spend longer in each corner. after i got a real road race car (an ITS-240Z) ive given up driving street cars on the big track. oh a fully sorted 240Z is FINE. :)
i sure hope these testers you are talking about nuked the active stupidity controls. cant tell sh!t with those on.
im looking for a decent street car i can spend some time in thats not too boring and not too expensive. now, i just have to convince myself the 350Z looks ok.
-james
on the big track you are right, you can notice smaller changes in balance cuz you spend longer in each corner. after i got a real road race car (an ITS-240Z) ive given up driving street cars on the big track. oh a fully sorted 240Z is FINE. :)
i sure hope these testers you are talking about nuked the active stupidity controls. cant tell sh!t with those on.
im looking for a decent street car i can spend some time in thats not too boring and not too expensive. now, i just have to convince myself the 350Z looks ok.
-james
RAB350Z
09-25-2002, 10:41 AM
I actualy just got my 350z track and its a dream, it handels better than my old 87 twinturbo 300zx around corners so i im very happy with it. im not big on the track but doing 120 in traffic with this car is nothing.
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