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talon turns off once warm????


lostsoul74
12-17-2006, 01:41 AM
Hey guys, new to this section, trying to save time rather then searching hours through old threads only to have half an answer answered ya know.

Anyways, heres the deal, i just scored a mint 96 talon esi lowered with rims and all for only 400. Supposively it needs a Crankshaft position sensor. but before i blow the loot and find thats not the problem, i wanted to run it by you guys to see if this sounds right.

Car starts and runs, though has some minor smoke out the back (it did sit for a while though). But after driving for about 15 minutes, around the time the engine reaches the half way point on teh thermostat, it will shut down. You have to wait till it has fully cooled off till starting again, if you try after only about 15 minutes and only semi cooled, it will try to start, sometimes will, but only on 2 cylinders, starts and runs fine (motor doesnt sound the best, a bit worn, but hey.... it was 400) Does this sound like a common diognosis for a crankshaft position sensor (i grabbed one off ebay for 5 bucks last week, but went to install today and the harness was different, mine is black capped, theother one was bare metal and slotted pins instead of rounded, so before i blow 50 on the right one, want to make sure this is what i need). Read in another post earlier that it may also be the cam angle sensor, got one of those too coming for 5 bucks, just replace them both i figured.
No, i havnt checked anything yet, just got it, the original owner said a professional shop said it was the crank position sensor, i just assumed so and didnt bother with anything else after i saw what i needed for 5 bucks on ebay ya know, figured for that price, i'd try that then go from there.

gthompson97
12-17-2006, 05:48 PM
It may be a CPS, but most likely not. Do a compression test and see what you come up with. I'm thinking that the motor is pretty worn out. How does it run before it warms up? Does it idle fine and what not? What color is the smoke? Blueish or more black?

MazdaX
12-17-2006, 06:52 PM
I had that happen to me multiple times in my Mazda MX-3 ..Every day once it hit operating temps, poot. would take about an hour of sitting to restart.

Anywho, what I found the problem to be is with the distributor getting hot and blowing the coil. Also the plastics inners of the disty seem to expand and contract with temp changes enough to throw off the crank sensor.

lostsoul74
12-17-2006, 06:58 PM
She idles fine, motor sounds a bit rough, but then again, shes been sitting for several months, computer may need to recurve, definately needs plugs, smoke is slightly bluish, I say crank position sensor cause thats what the original owner said a pro shop said, I did get a response on another site from a guy whos also had a bad cps, and he said the same thing, it would shot off after 15-20 minutes, and would try to restart on 2 cyl. Thanks guys, though the more i liston to this motor, i dont think it's gona last too long, may already be out the door ( you can hear the slightest knock on teh backside of the rev). Well, at least the rims and system will easily get my money back, too bad, this was one sweet looking ride.

gthompson97
12-17-2006, 07:02 PM
Change the tps then and give it a good tune up. Plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, oil change, run some injector cleaner, all that good stuff. It sounds like it's burning some oil. Even if it does go, for $400 plus a $700 for a different motor, you still got a sweet ride for $1100, which is still half of what it would be had you bought it with a good motor.

Mikelb
12-18-2006, 01:59 PM
if your car starts then stops when it's warm... sounds more like a fuel pump issue there...

but the motor does sound like it's worn... any way you could post pics/vids of the smoke, any sounds? CEL??? anything?

I think if it were the CPS, it wouldn't start regardless of being warm or not...

I think it's the fuel pump, b/c that happened to my mom's van...same symptoms (run till warm, then shutoff and not start, and if it did, it was barely running and shutoff a/b 15 seconds after being started)

lostsoul74
12-18-2006, 03:31 PM
From what i've read on the cps for the dsm's, this is the standard kaos it causes, its usually one or the other, the crank position sensor, or the cam angle sensor, the ecu gets confused or something, the code could be either, cant seem to find the right cps now on ebay or elseware used, so isntead of spending 75 new, i'm just gona modify the one i bought and sodder a pigtail on it to be used, i guess they sell the pigtail just for this reason for 30 bucks, but why waste the money for 10 minutes of time.
I'm not familiar with imports at all, so all feedback is helpful, but as far as the TPS, i've had tps problems in my supercoupe and old camaro, when it was bad, it just gave me hesitation when i floored it. I guess the cps issue seems to be a common thing with these 420a motors. I posted this question to try to save the time of searching around and only finding half answers, but after a week now, i've learned a bit more about this ride. Took it out again today, paying real close to the engine and yea, new plugs and wires, and that sensor, she should be good again, i got a real steal it seems... well... either way, i got a steal.

gthompson97
12-18-2006, 05:33 PM
Just splice in the connector from yours on to the other CPS. There should be no problems in doing that, I've had do that a few times for a coulpe different sensors. But I've never heard of the CPS being a common problem, actually this is the first time I've heard of it happening. I have heard of the ECU's going bad though, I had that happen to me and the car would just die randomly. But change the sensor and give it a tune up and let us know how it runs.

lostsoul74
12-20-2006, 10:11 PM
hey, just put new plugs in, the plug all the way to the right was filled with OIL??? meaning, as soon as i pulled the wire, oil was filled in the spark plug hole??? my neighbor said something about o-ring in the valve cover?? no idea what he meant, is it a problem?? is it difficult, should i get rid of it quick?? but anyways, after the new plugs, yea, she sounds better, and has alot more pep now, shes a keeper i think. Still got to do that sensor thing, cant find my sodder around the house to sodder to the new pins, I'll get to it soon. But yea, when i originally posted this, i posted this on like 3 different dsm sites in order to get some good answers (everyone has theyre guestimated opinions, but theres always a few that know exactly the problem.. been there done that), and yea, the cps and cas are common problems with the 95-96 talon/eclipse, at least thats what they said, and from all the posts on it, seems right. Keep you posted, but give me the heads up on this oil in the plug thing??? thanks

gthompson97
12-21-2006, 03:23 AM
The valve cover gasket has spark plug gaskets to seal the spark plug hole, the gasket is probably bad. You'll have to pull the valve cover gasket and replace all of the plug gaskets and VC gasket. You can't just replace one because when they get oil-soaked they expand and then you can't get them back in, just make sure you follow the directions in the Chilton manual to get it to seal correctly.

lostsoul74
12-21-2006, 05:44 AM
right on.... apreciate it.

lostsoul74
12-31-2006, 02:54 PM
well, yea, i replaced the crank sensor, stayed running fine afterwards, got the other headlight from ebay that was broken, replaced it today, took it out around the block a few times, revs great, but because of the valve cover ring letting oil around the spark plug, it fouls out a little. but i think i may have blown the engine, took her out, was running great, turned a corner hard and revved it a bit and a big thick cloud of grey smoke (not white, not blue) was in the rearview, pulled in, mild smoke on idle, a bit heavier at rev, took it back out a few times, no loss of power, no water in the engine, oil in the water.. etc. etc. Did I just blow the engine, or could this be related to the valve cover ring and oil is getting into the cylinder??

gthompson97
12-31-2006, 04:37 PM
Do a compression test. It sounds like you may have dropped a cylinder, but then the car wouldn't run hardly at all so who knows. It may be because of the oil in the cylinder (the one that leaks)

lostsoul74
12-31-2006, 06:05 PM
yea, i'm hoping thats all it is, got hooked up with a good quality cheap ass car painter local, so I got a sweet wing for it for 50 off ebay (the wide terminator thats on the net for 400), and got the rear bumper body kit piece off craigslist for 15 local, and was just about to grab the front nose body for 80 on bid that ends today (gona hold on that one...). I'm keeping the fingers crossed that thats all it is the valve cover ring, but i've had alot of beaters and seen alot of bad engines, and never heard of that one, I would think it would be blue smoke if that was the case though, well, either way, i've got the gasket coming and will know later this week. Sure, I could get a jap motor off ebay for like 5, but then another buck and half shipping, and a motor swap is beyond me, so another few hundred in that... just not worth it for me if it's something major.....

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