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Blue smoke after boost


SilvrEclipse
12-15-2006, 10:17 AM
After I boost the car I get a good bit of blue smoke coming out the exhaust. I know that blue smoke means burning oil. As long as I am on the throttle there is no smoke but when I let off and the car is slowing down, especially when still in gear, smoke will puff out the exhaust. The turbo I put on there was used but seemed to be in excellant shape. Still has very little shaft play. I haven't had to time to do a compression check but I was just hoping this is a sign of the turbo going bad.

Mikelb
12-15-2006, 10:22 AM
I'm having a bad day and can't really think through things... but I might suggest checking the PCV valve... I know if that's bad it can build up pressure and cause piston ring blow-by... and I'm thinking that if the pressure can vent enough under boost, it might still have a problem venting when the TB is closed...

(forgive me if this sounds irrational, I'm having sugar problems this morn and can't think clearly)

SilvrEclipse
12-15-2006, 10:24 AM
The PCV valve is pretty new, I can still check it out to make sure.

Mikelb
12-15-2006, 10:29 AM
hmm... 420a @7psi... I'm trying to think... it might be awhile (waiting on everything to clear up...I didn't eat breakfast this morn and I'm suffering now)...

I remember your car, but I can't member when you got it turboed... how long has it been turboed? and when did this start?

And a/b where do your EGT readings sit?


What kind of shaft play has the turbo got? side-to-side? or in and out? some side-to-side is ok, but there should be no in and out...
I would think if it were the turbo, it would be dumping oil when under boost...

Have you checked your intercooler? if the turbo is really bad, there should be oil in there...

SilvrEclipse
12-15-2006, 11:08 AM
It has been boosted for a little over a month now. The turbo has no in/out play. My EGT's only hit 1400-1500 under boost. Im not sure how long it has been doing this, I can't see the smoke, you have to be driving behind me. But I believe that it has been doing this for a little while, it seems to be getting worse though. I will have some time next week to check everything out. Im still leaning toward the turbo because if I dont boost I dont get any smoke.

gthompson97
12-15-2006, 03:19 PM
A simple 5 min compression test could tell you alot. Rings that are *going* bad will most likely smoke under extreme pressure (under boost) but not while coming off. I'd say check the turbo.

jonnyboy9012
12-16-2006, 01:12 AM
Hey... i had the same problem when i turboed my PT (with a motor similar to the 420a... it is acutally a sub-division of that motor called the "EDZ"). The problem did turn out to be the turbo.I couldnt figure the damn thing out, i checked all the crankcase lines, compression checked... basically everything i could think of. I turned out to be the turbo seals on the inside, i bought a cheap ebay turbo (i know... i know, but i already got what is deserved and i was broke at the time) that lasted great for about 2 weeks, the outside of the turbo itself was of excellent quality but where the saved money was on the bearing housing, the seals where shot and it would blow oil. It blew oil because the seals had worn to allow tollerances to fall out of spec... i dont know how many thousands of an inch are supposed to be between the journal bearing and the shaft, but i know mine was enough to cause blowby. I still dont have an explination on why it did it when i lifted on the throttle, but it did... and the seals where the culprit. Hope this helps.

eclipsed at 3am
12-18-2006, 05:25 PM
your egt is 1400-1500 under boost? damn. i dont know if naturally-NA motors that are turbo'd run hotter than a naturally turbo car, but i know on my car, under full boost of like 20-21psi, my egt is about 1250-1300 and stays.

maybe your car is running lean. that could be heating up your engine and causing rings and whatever else to heat up really bad, and possibly fail. i dunno just my two cents. i cant really say a lot because i dont know much about 420a-turbo.

my 91 gs turbo puffed out a little blue smoke when i boosted. it was all stock. when i put another stock turbo on, the smoke stopped. maybe it is just your turbo. hope you figure it out, smoke and nasty smell coming out of the exhaust is embarrassing!

Mikelb
12-19-2006, 07:28 AM
ok... I'm not sure here... but I'm gonna say with EGTs that high, I think you're running lean... bump up your fuel compensation a little, and see those drop... I'm not certain on this, but that's why I gave everyone else some time to look and see what they thought.

I am definitely leaning towards the seals in the turbo... from what I've read, it looks to be the culprit... I think that the bearings are allowing it enough shaftplay that once you come out of boost it blows the oil by and comes out the exhaust side...

SilvrEclipse
12-19-2006, 09:38 AM
I beleive that the EGT are fine, when the motor was n/a they would sit at 1400 @ 70mph. 1500 if the a/c was on. Also remember that the 420a has higher compression than the 4g63. I am going to try and get the compression tested this week. The motor is suppose to be hot right?

EDIT - I searched around on 2gnt for a little while and found out that on a good tuned motor they should be 1500-1600. So I am running a little bit rich.

gthompson97
12-19-2006, 06:30 PM
I wouldn't lean it out anymore though, just to be safe. Do you have a different turbo you can put on and test?

SilvrEclipse
12-19-2006, 10:03 PM
No, thats the only turbo I have. I can't lean the fuel out anymore, actually I can't adjust the fuel at all. Im just gonna run the turbo and see how long it takes to breaks. I might even put a 16g on it. Would there be any noticeble difference in performance?

jonnyboy9012
12-20-2006, 01:16 AM
If your going to have the turbo on their for longer than a couple weeks try some heavier weight oil... it helped mine stop smoking so bad for a little bit, but it still smoked like Ron White on a welcome back tour. And it will get worse very quickly so keep an eye on oil levels. I finally said enough is enough when a cop pulled me over and gave me a fix-it ticket for the sight and smell comin' out my exhaust. Good luck.

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 06:53 AM
Well damn, I just hope it will last a couple more months. Im going to the track tonight so we will see what happens. Hopefully it wont blow up

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 07:18 AM
eww.... I wouldn't suggest running a car hard unless you have its problems fixed first, b/c then it will develop new ones...

You don't need to run it hard until you know that it's really the turbo and not the motor, or that it could be running lean...

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 11:19 AM
ok, well I talked to a someone today about this and he said that the turbo might be getting to much oil. The oil pressure is to high. I have a 4-an line T-ed off of my oil pressure sending unit. After the motor is warm my ideal pressure is 20psi and driving its around 60psi. Is this to much for the turbo and blowing oil by the seals? Its sounds like a possibility, I haven't found any retrictors for this turbo but something could be made very easily.

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 11:42 AM
holy shit... that is extremely high... where's your turbo plumbed in at???

When I start my car, the pressure shoots up to a/b 40-60 psi, and I don't drive it til it drops back down... My turbo sees no more than 25psi (normally no more than 20 psi, flooring the gas)...

Mine is plumbed in from the heads...

edit: when idling, my pressure can sit around 10 psi...

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 11:47 AM
Its tapped in where the factory oil pressure sending unit was. I took that out, put in a T fitting with my autometer sending unit and oil feed line. So I guess thats the problem

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 11:51 AM
ah, yeah that down there has a lot higher pressure... The oil pressure gauge needs all that pressure to function right, but the turbo needs a restrictor or something to cut-down on that pressure... on the 1G's, they are tapped into the head, on the side of them... I'll see if I can get a pic...

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 11:55 AM
yea, I have no other place to tap the line. So here is my solution, I have a flat piece of metal. I'm going to cut it round so that it fits between the oil feed hole and the banjo bolt. And drill a very small hole in the center for the oil. Sound good???

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 12:09 PM
yea, I have no other place to tap the line. So here is my solution, I have a flat piece of metal. I'm going to cut it round so that it fits between the oil feed hole and the banjo bolt. And drill a very small hole in the center for the oil. Sound good???

it's worth a shot... let me know what happens...

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 12:12 PM
Well im gonna try it, i just dont know what size to drill out the hole, any ideas. And I wont know how much pressure the turbo will be seeing, still wont be as much as it is now. Thanks for all your help guys

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm really not the guy to ask that... but start as small as possible, and work your way up...

maybe this can help: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171317

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 12:37 PM
I saw that, I figured out a way to rig up a nitrous jet on my set up, but I think this will work better if I can get the right size hole. Im workin on it now so I will let you know how it works.

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 12:44 PM
take the measurements from that nitrous jet... or get a small bearing/washer, that you could find some way of inserting it in the plumbing somewhere...

I have a feeling it's gonna be something that's easy to do, but a PITA to figure out at first...

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 01:03 PM
Here's a pic of where mine is plumbed (ignore how crappy it looks, I am still putting the car back together)

and sry for pic quality... it was too bright outside and that was a camera phone
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/MikelBolton/Talon/engine2.jpg

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 02:34 PM
I have never seen anyone tap there oil line there on the 420a motor. I have finished my restrictor. Its a little piece of metal that fit inside the turbo, i put a spring in there also so that the plate would stay down. I heated up the metal and used a needle to make the hole. Its about 1/2 the size of the one in the turbo. How will I know if I'm not getting enough oil?

Mikelb
12-20-2006, 02:59 PM
sry, I forgot we were talking a/b a 420A... that's the stock location for a 1G-4g63...

Ok, from what I've read, no more than 15 psi at idle, I'd say anywhere from 5-12(15 on the high side) and you'd be good...


I have viewed a few peoples' sites, and they all seem to suggest a fitting with a .04, .06, or a .08 diameter hole... I'd play around with those... see what you get...

As far as high boost oil pressure, I'm not certain what it should be, but I wouldn't figure anything over say 25-30?!?

SilvrEclipse
12-20-2006, 03:11 PM
Well all I have is a pin hole for the oil to go through so it should be a little better. I took the return off and let the oil drain into a container and it seemed like it was still getting plenty, a constant flow. Im just going to drive it like this and see if its any better. Well I guess this is a gamble. If it doesn't get enough oil the turbo is gonna be fu*ked.

gthompson97
12-21-2006, 03:15 AM
Why don't you ask them on 2gnt.com? I know there are a bunch of turbo guys over there and they would know alot more about it than some of us. Where did GSgoinfast tap his into?

SilvrEclipse
12-21-2006, 09:32 AM
All of them are tapped into the same place mine is. But I have only seen 1 other person use a 14b turbo. I have searched around there and didn't come up with a lot of info. They use mostly garrett T3's so maybe they dont need a restrictor unless its a BB turbo.

scottsee
12-21-2006, 03:53 PM
I replyed to your Pm. It sounds alot like oil being pushed past the seals. I've had the same porblem on 2 other turbos. The oil feed line from the head has less pressure then the oil filter feed locations on the turbo modles. You can have as large of feed line as you like, the restriction will be limited to the smallest part of the line, ie the banjo bolt. If you are significantly worried about pressure you can drill the oil releave oil out larger on the oil pump, or install a restrictor valve into the line. I wouldn't worry about it with it, oil pressure is only a problem with turbos when you get into ball bearing modles.

Do as I suggested in the pm and see if you have oil residue in the LICP and intercooler. I didn't have much in my LICP, but had a bit in the intercooler.

Sorry to hear about your issues. Just don't let it get worse. I ignored the issue and ended up snapping the turbin shaft sending my exdure wheel into my front o2. It's a nice paper weight at the office, but caused alot of unwanted work. Good luck and Happy Holiday's..

Scott See..

vanilla gorilla
12-26-2006, 07:59 PM
I was just wondering regarding the turboing the NT topic....you said you can't adjust the fuel, so you aren't running any fuel management? I'm going to be running my SAFC 2 on mine so I was wondering what you were doing.

SilvrEclipse
12-27-2006, 12:01 AM
I am running a fuel managment unit. It works off of vacumm pressure. When boost builds it ups my fuel pressure to force more fuel into the motor.

*UPDATE* - I talked to a guy from turbochargers.com and he said that these turbos already have restrictors in them and my oil pres didn't mess up the turbo. It must have been waiting to go out.

gallacmic
10-28-2011, 09:06 PM
Hey man not sure if you are still having the blue smoke problem or not but I had the same thing happen and I ended up fixing it making my own home made turbo oil line regulator with a gauge. I made a youtube video of it too so you can check it out here. Hope this helps!:biggrin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z55QwB8H05k

SilvrEclipse
11-01-2011, 09:49 AM
This thread is 5 years old, Please do not bring back old threads.

It ended up being turbo seals

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