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Clutch master cylinder blown.


MazdaX
12-03-2006, 03:49 PM
Well I went out the other mornign to find a bunch of DOT3 all over my floor board driver side and I really didn't think much of it just shrugged and figured I spilled some somehow or somewhere but not so..I started, warmed my car up and went to push the clutch and it felt like I was pushing a cotton wad XD so soft...mmm...soft.

Anywho, seems the master is shot..Average prives for a new one runs 80 - 100 but I found the master cylinder rebuild kit for 20 and was wondering if the rebuild is just as good as a new or reman'd one ?

God it sucks having no clutch lol..

nofear39427
12-03-2006, 09:26 PM
From hearing my dad talk about mechanical issues it seems like it would be better just to buy a new one.Ofcourse we all have different oppinions about things like that.

scizzle
12-04-2006, 12:19 AM
I would definately agree. get a new one. The life of a home rebuild is not as long, or promised

Blackcrow64
12-04-2006, 12:43 AM
If done properly, any rebuild can be just as good as a brand new item... Of course, it will be much simpler and easier to just replace the entire thing with a new one. :)

Black99GST
12-04-2006, 03:19 PM
:1: ... but not cheaper...

MazdaX
12-06-2006, 07:41 PM
I went ahead and did the rebuild. I ordered a major kit, only ran me 21.00 for it all.
Anywho, it was fairly simple to do just a little pain staking to get it out as I am a fairly big handed guy and they cram packed it in the smallest corner they could.

As far as the rebuild, it went in less than 2 minutes. Procedure is a lot less expensive than taking it to a shop and anyone with a screw driver and a 12 mm socket can do it.

All there really is to it is a simple clip to hold the piston in , a small screw perhaps for volume control ? on the bottom and the new piston gromet cover for dirt protection. I did this all , reassembled the set up and now my clutch is smoother and working better than ever.

I have noticed something new though as I had been driving it for about a week having to kind of rev put in gear it is when it's idling in the mornings it sounds like there is a weird grindy noise coming from the tranny casing. Perhaps a little low on gear oil ?

Blackcrow64
12-06-2006, 11:19 PM
You may have air in the clutch lines... Did you bleed them through many times to ensure no air in it?... Also, it could have just worked tiny air bubbles out to the slave cylinder and might just need to be bled a little bit to be fine.

MazdaX
12-07-2006, 12:25 AM
Yeah I went through a pint of the DOT 3 to make sure no air was in there. The clutch pedal and slave/master are working fine. The problem I am speaking of sounds like it comes from inside the transmission housing...maybe like loose gears or metal pieces bouncing around.

Blackcrow64
12-07-2006, 12:32 AM
Yeah I went through a pint of the DOT 3 to make sure no air was in there. The clutch pedal and slave/master are working fine. The problem I am speaking of sounds like it comes from inside the transmission housing...maybe like loose gears or metal pieces bouncing around.
Oh, it only does it when you try to put it in gear from a stop?

Mikelb
12-07-2006, 10:49 AM
if this is a new problem... check that master cylinder...

Do you have full clutch pressure??? Did you prime the master cylinder before installing it?...
is anything leaking? any hoses pinched/punctured?


Does it only happen when cold???

The fluid may contract, make sure you have enough fluid in the reservoir. if there is any air in there, it will contract and compress in the cold, and especially under pressure...

It really sounds like the clutch isn't fully disengaging to me

Blackcrow64
12-07-2006, 11:15 AM
It really sounds like the clutch isn't fully disengaging to me
Thats what I thought at first too, but then the more I thought about it the more I realized it could be his 1st gear snycros... If they're going bad then of course he will have a hard time putting it into 1st when the car is cold from just starting. The same thing went for mine with reverse all the time... So it makes me wonder... Unless 1st and reverse doesn't have syncro's and they gears are just torn up. :2cents:

Mikelb
12-07-2006, 11:56 AM
Thats what I thought at first too, but then the more I thought about it the more I realized it could be his 1st gear snycros... If they're going bad then of course he will have a hard time putting it into 1st when the car is cold from just starting. The same thing went for mine with reverse all the time... So it makes me wonder... Unless 1st and reverse doesn't have syncro's and they gears are just torn up. :2cents:

IIRC, 1st gear isn't synchroed... I really wish I had taken pics from my rebuild... but I don't think that they were stock... I know reverse was synchroed... But 1st gear, you are supposed to be completely stopped to engage... Don't quote me on that... look it up if you need to know for certain... but I was just wanting to make sure the small/simple things were taken care of first... rather than spend big bucks...

Blackcrow64
12-07-2006, 11:59 AM
but I was just wanting to make sure the small/simple things were taken care of first... rather than spend big bucks...
Of course. He assured me that he had it bled out fine though and that it worked better than ever. So I'm assuming that if its working better than ever then the problem lies deeper into the tranny... Just my thoughts though. We both could end up being wrong. lol

Mikelb
12-07-2006, 12:00 PM
Of course. He assured me that he had it bled out fine though and that it worked better than ever. So I'm assuming that if its working better than ever then the problem lies deeper into the tranny... Just my thoughts though. We both could end up being wrong. lol


True, but seeing as how the problem could potentially remain in the same system... I'd double and triple check it before taking time to do anything else... just my :2cents:

MazdaX
12-07-2006, 03:18 PM
Uhhm well 1st can be a real bitch to put in sometimes. Like it has to 'pop' in or something. Its almost like the car lurches when i put it into 1st and I also have a few issues once in a while with 3rd being a bastard as well but it goes in smooth when it goes in but 1 out of 10 times I have to double shift it into 3rd for it to go.

As far as I can tell, the clutch and master system are working perfectly.

The noises I get are only in cold weather , if I rev if gets way louder and harsher sounding. I also noticed, I had a new tranny mouont put on 2 months ago and its the one infront, already broken.

After the car warms up to operating temperatures, I never really hear the sound not in idle or driving..so i'm confused as hell.

Blackcrow64
12-08-2006, 01:42 AM
For 1st, do you have to rev it a little bit when it doesn't go in and then it'll go in but does the slight grinding noise? If so, mine did that and I've actually seen it on a lot of DSM's.

MazdaX
12-08-2006, 02:00 AM
For 1st, do you have to rev it a little bit when it doesn't go in and then it'll go in but does the slight grinding noise? If so, mine did that and I've actually seen it on a lot of DSM's.

No no grinding noise it more like makes the car jump a little when it pops in gear.

I can better tell the problem if I say the transmission sounds like it has rattling parts inside the smaller section of the tranny. like the opposite end of the bellhousing.

Other than that issue, my car runs smooth..seems to accelerate as it should, gears aren't funky when in gear and car just seems to operate normally other than that...i'm stumped.

Blackcrow64
12-08-2006, 02:12 AM
Hmmm... I am stumped as well then...


Too bad we never see our DSM guru Kevin around here anymore to solve this one. :(

MazdaX
12-08-2006, 02:43 AM
I'll record a video of it tomorrow morning with audio.

Mikelb
12-08-2006, 08:27 AM
hm...
.
..
...
..
.
ok... my assumptions are that you have a heavier clutch (than stock), the transmission isn't completely disconnecting when you push in the clutch...
I'm also assuming the problem with 3rd gear, is that the synchro is wearing out... I'm also gonna assume that there's a possiblity that you have reverse problems (getting into reverse, and a whine when in reverse)

Next time you are in the car, and have trouble getting into 1st, once you have it in 1st, with the clutch pressed, quickly rev the engine, if the car slightly rolls forward, the clutch isn't completely disengaging (clutch release fork bent, clutch fork pivot ball bent, or pressure plate is wearing out)



Also, (on a slightly different note) does your Throwout bearing rattle?
with a heavier clutch, you may want to replace the slave cylinder with an extension rod (or make your own, sry... I don't know the measurements)


I'm gonna think a/b the "rattling" you described... I can almost swear I've experienced something like this... I'm gonna try and see if I can recall what it was...

gthompson97
12-08-2006, 12:07 PM
My buddies 95 GS had sort of a rattle in neutral while it was running and we tore his fucking tranny out twice to try fix it. Once we thought it was a worn TOB and then maybe the clutch fork but it was neither. Then we completely ripped the whole thing apart, put it back together, installed it, and the rattle is still here today. Cannot figure it out.

Mikelb
12-08-2006, 12:12 PM
My buddies 95 GS had sort of a rattle in neutral while it was running and we tore his fucking tranny out twice to try fix it. Once we thought it was a worn TOB and then maybe the clutch fork but it was neither. Then we completely ripped the whole thing apart, put it back together, installed it, and the rattle is still here today. Cannot figure it out.

My TOB and fork went out (had a rattling since install) and busted the bell housing all the way around... (not to say the same thing is/will happen, but that's my experience... I'm trying to think a/b what on the other end of the tranny might rattle)

gthompson97
12-08-2006, 12:18 PM
Mazda, is it full of fluid? Try checking for a loose mounting bracket bolt or something.

MazdaX
12-08-2006, 02:27 PM
Mazda, is it full of fluid? Try checking for a loose mounting bracket bolt or something.


Everything is tite as can be. As far as fluids go, I have no friggin clue..all I know is the car was extremely abused before I purchased it and it has only one service record of a mild tune up from the dealership excluding a timing belt and timing belt tensioner. Lol..the car has 175 000 miles on it and it's only a 1999 XD oh well...

Anyways, where would I pop off a inspection bolt to check the fluid level ?

Also here is the video, listen to the raspy sounding rattling after i rev it a little bit. - http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/ohjiro/Eclipse/The%20Mods/?action=view&current=MVI_0807.flv

Blackcrow64
12-09-2006, 12:06 AM
Ya know what... It almost sounds like the starter gear is grinding in the flywheel... See if it sounds like its coming more from that area... :2cents:

MazdaX
12-09-2006, 06:55 PM
I pulled the starter off to inspect the gears because if that was the case, running it more = damaging it more lol..starters and flywheel jobs aren't cheap and since I have no garage me no takey tranny out XD

However, the starter gear is in perfect condition with no visible wear signs, I had to replace it when I got the damn car...anywho so I think that eliminates the starter..

The best way to put it is there sounds like a bunch of plastic chip bags inside my tranny being crumbled up..gah..

Black99GST
12-09-2006, 08:04 PM
thats really odd... however, i have heard the same sound on several high milage 420A cas (even Neons) and people have tried tranny rebuilds, new clutchs, flywheels, all with little to no success, however, i'm concered with the way you say "the car jumps when i put it in first" what exactly do you mean by that? Jumps as in starts to roll? if so then your clutch defenatly isn't dis-engaging all the way :2cents:

MazdaX
12-10-2006, 12:56 AM
thats really odd... however, i have heard the same sound on several high milage 420A cas (even Neons) and people have tried tranny rebuilds, new clutchs, flywheels, all with little to no success, however, i'm concered with the way you say "the car jumps when i put it in first" what exactly do you mean by that? Jumps as in starts to roll? if so then your clutch defenatly isn't dis-engaging all the way :2cents:

Uhh by jumping basically..pop it into gear, goes in very firmly and rough but no gears grind when clutch is fully depressed. From there, once in the shifting motion the car basically jumps about a foot forward and then nuetrals out if I keep the clutch in. It only does that in first gear..hard to explain other than saying it jumps after shifting into first from a dead stop.

gthompson97
12-10-2006, 02:40 PM
Holy shit that sounds horrible, that's definitely not the noise my buddies car made. Check the fluid level in the tranny, it's probably bone dry. Do you have a Haynes or Chiltons manual? It shows how to do it in there, better than I can explain. But you have to pull off the right front wheel and then the splash guard and on the side of the tranny somewhat towards the top there's a rubber plug. If you pull it out and start filling with fluid until it starts to come out the hole, then it's full.

MazdaX
12-11-2006, 09:25 PM
I guess it doesn't matter now..lol The friggin slave cylinder has the shittiest design for a hydrolic clutch system I have ever seen.

stupid flange that bolts up to the mount for the slave broke, the piston jerked sideways and the slave split in half lol..great..Dealership wants 150.00 for a oem replacement and I think thats a bunch of BS for such a simple part..The master was only 80 new...wtf?

So does anyone know where online I can order a slave cylinder for my car ? lol..Engine - 420A. Year - 1999.

Blackcrow64
12-12-2006, 06:27 AM
What... I can get one for the 4g63 tranny for 50 bucks brand new from Shepherd... I think extremepsi.com too... Better start lookin around for a lower price man.

Mikelb
12-12-2006, 07:49 AM
$30-50 from Advance...


^looking back at earlier posts... I realized you have a 420A... oops, I was talking a/b the F5M33 transmissions... so, in your case... 1st might be synchroed, but with the car "jumping" forward, I'm assuming something is wrong with the clutch or disengagement...

After listening to the video (which I never did in the beginning), I'm gonna say the transmission has some serious internal issues...I don't know what that would be... possibly some sort of bearings?!?...
I wouldn't assume it was synchros b/c the car isn't going anywhere or isn't going into gear...
I wouldn't assume the differential bearings b/c the wheels aren't turning
I would assume it's something on the input shaft, since the car's in neutral...
possibly the input shaft bearings?!?

Here's a breakdown of what might happen, and shows most of the parts (this is for the F5M33, but I'm assuming the 420a tranny has similar)
http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/transmissionassembly.html


Ok, here's a pic, outlining the input shaft bearings (from an F5M33)... This is what I believe might be causing the problem...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/MikelBolton/Car%20parts/inputshaft.jpg

The reason I believe it to be them, is when the car is in neutral, no gears are engaged (shouldn't be synchros or gears), but the input shaft keeps spinning, so these bearings are constantly being used... With that many miles, it's possible that these are worn

First things first, replace that slave, and CHECK THAT FLUID...

MazdaX
12-13-2006, 01:33 AM
Damn..so difficult to find the slave cylinder for the 420A motor and tranny -_- I can find them left and right dirt cheap for the 4G ...-_-;;;

Mikelb
12-13-2006, 07:53 AM
Damn..so difficult to find the slave cylinder for the 420A motor and tranny -_- I can find them left and right dirt cheap for the 4G ...-_-;;;

Do you have an Advance Auto nearby?
How a/b an Autozone?

FUCK!!!
Here's the links for the parts
Advance Auto
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=TRQ&mfrpartnumber=CS360007&parttype=236&ptset=A

Autozone
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&UserAction=performMoreDetail&Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EClutch+Slave+Cylinder%7C%7ENO NE%7C%7EBECK_ARNLEY%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7EFALS E%7C%7E406149%7C%7E476%7C%7E072-9105%7C%7E1+per+car%7C%7E%2459.99%7C%7EMitsubishi% 7C%7EEclipse%7C%7E1995%7C%7E3+MO%7C%7E1.0%7C%7ENON E%7C%7EV

MazdaX
12-13-2006, 02:33 PM
The first one looks way different than mine and it doesn't evencome with a piston kit lol.

Autozone, yeah I have a few. I called em about it and they don't seem to be able to get one in a reasonable amount of time.

Mikelb
12-13-2006, 02:57 PM
The first one looks way different than mine and it doesn't evencome with a piston kit lol.

Autozone, yeah I have a few. I called em about it and they don't seem to be able to get one in a reasonable amount of time.

That's the slave cylinder for the 420A tranny... It has a piston in it... if it looks different, then I wouldn't buy it though... post a pic of your's and I'll try and help

Are you talking a/b the Master?
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=TRQ&mfrpartnumber=CM350087&parttype=234&ptset=A

MazdaX
12-13-2006, 03:03 PM
That's the slave cylinder for the 420A tranny... It has a piston in it... if it looks different, then I wouldn't buy it though... post a pic of your's and I'll try and help


F*** I feel like an idiot..lol...Trying to be all big and mighty when new to the eclipse thing..last time that will happen lol.

Anywho so heres what really happened...IT seems the CS has two mounting points , the top 10mm and the lower right 10 mm..anywho, I had been having a issue with shifting about 3 weeks after I got the car so I popped the hood and there was the slave moving around freely so I looked from underneath the front bumper and seen the top side 10 mm bolt and was like "Oh shit, better tighten that up" that worked fine until the other days events.

Anywho, Now that I have the slave off, I see there is two mounting points on it and the lower right one didn't even have a f***ing bolt in it so all the hydrolic pressure was on the little flange for the slave and eventually gave out -_-'''

Sorry, I assumed it was a one bolt system but I was wrong..thats a lot more than I can say for other people at least i'll admit it XD

Oh well, thanks for the link by the way i'll order one in a little bit lol.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/ohjiro/IMG_0837.jpg?t=1166043534

Mikelb
12-13-2006, 03:07 PM
No problem, glad you got it figured out

MazdaX
12-13-2006, 03:09 PM
No problem, glad you got it figured out

maybe i'll just super glue it back on ..think JB weld would hold ? Lol..

Does anyone know the pressure coming off the slave in PSI ?
Just curious..i was thinking maybe 200 ?

Mikelb
12-13-2006, 03:44 PM
maybe i'll just super glue it back on ..think JB weld would hold ? Lol..

Does anyone know the pressure coming off the slave in PSI ?
Just curious..i was thinking maybe 200 ?

maybe as a temp fix, I strongly suggest getting another one... I have I'd sell ya, but unfortunately it's for the turbo slave cylinder...

don't want that to break off and you get stranded somewhere though... I suggest buying another...

MazdaX
12-13-2006, 03:47 PM
maybe as a temp fix, I strongly suggest getting another one... I have I'd sell ya, but unfortunately it's for the turbo slave cylinder...

don't want that to break off and you get stranded somewhere though... I suggest buying another...

Ordered one :D should be here by the 18th.

Mikelb
12-14-2006, 10:05 AM
cool...

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