'92 LeSabre DEADLY BRAKES!

Hey fellas. I'm really impressed with this board, very good thing you have going on here!

Here's my issue, I have a '92 LeSabre with (I think) a 3800 Tuned Point Injection motor (I don't know if that's even relevant) and I've had a BIT of trouble with the brakes.

First off, my rotors were F-----. I'm a fairly poor man, so I replaced them myself. It was fun, because I'm an artsy musician queerbo who most everyone thinks couldn't lift a finger when it comes to car work, but I've also replaced a water pump on my old '78 Nova (HELL YEAH), anyway, after replacing those rotors everything was great.....until last Sunday. I'm driving down the street, and there are cars and pedestrians everywhere when all the sudden there is a routine red light. I press the brake down and it just goes "FSHHHH" all the way to the floor, and I'm still going. Luckily I am a videogame nerd and my puzzle instincts kick in and I swerve my way effortlessly through traffic and end up taking a left. I then take a deep breath and step on the brake. It totally works this time. Since then I've had to drive my car to work everyday and everyday I have this problem (of course as soon as I almost died the first time, I figured a way to work around it...a very bad idea!)

Here's how I work my way around it: As soon as my brakes die out on me (almost EVERYTIME I USE THEM) I quickly take my foot off the brake and tap the gas pedal and reapply the brake, and it works.

Here are some conditions it seems to not work in:
-When I'm in second gear, not sure if this is part of it, but it seems to be ok if I'm going fast or really slow, but not when I'm going about 30 mph.
-When I've been stopped for some time. The brake pedal slowly gives way and I start rolling into whatever is in front of me (THANK JESUS FOR THE PARKING BRAKE)
-When in reverse.

I've popped the hood and my brake fluid is plentiful, although a nasty color of black, which I'm not sure is natural or not, but I've never heard of someone having to drain their brake fluids. All other fluids seemed ok, I can use a tad bit more oil and the trans fluid is a little TOO full (I hear this can be a pain, but it's BEEN too full for some time).

I'm sure you're all reading this and thinking "WTF IS THIS GUY DOING DRIVING?!?!" But like I said before, the cash situation is at an all time low this month, and I have to wait til Friday to actually DO anything about it, and even then I don't have NEARLY enough dough to take it anywhere. So any advice on what I can do myself will be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks a bunch!

PS- Mileage = 118368

First, clear an entire Saturday and be sure to find a friend who's done car work.

I think your problem is a bad master cylander. Mushy, soft brakes is generally related to a faulty MC. A new MC is about $40. You'll need new fluid and you will defintately need to bleed all the lines to get the old black fluid out. The fluid is supposed to be a nice light brown/amber color. You may also want to look into replacing your brake hoses (if they are rubber) too. As they slowly deteriorate, they can change the color of the fluid.

This is a very time-consuming job though, especially if you don't have a lot of experience working on cars. For example, this job (new MC, new lines, bleeding) took me close to a week to finish...granted this is around work and school and nasty weather. This is also a potentially frustrating job as the fittings on the lines are generally difficult to remove as they want to strip before they spin :( Also, I had to clean parts of road grime and an annoying anti-rust crap that was sprayed on the underside of the car with a MAPP torch...

Wow, this is with a doubt, the most graphic and dramatic description of a failing master cylinder, I have ever read.:rofl: You need to change the master cylinder ASAP, before your “video game” driving skills and luck runs out! :crying: While you are at it, have the complete system flushed and new rubber hoses installed. Contrary to popular belief, it is a wise investment to flush the old brake fluid out every few years. When things corrode on the inside, the result will be similar to yours.:naughty:

BTW: Welcome to AF!:newbie:

Thanks a bunch for the speedy answers guys! This Friday, Saturday and Sunday are all cleared and my Uncle is a great mechanic. I'll let you guys know the results...and I hope it doesn't include me hitting something on my way to work tomorrow!

Thanks again!!!

PS- You guys are some of the most welcoming l33t people on a message board I've ever seen. I make music and draw comics, and most of the forums I go to for either one are full of really bad spirited people. Good lookin out!

You're very welome to the board :) In general, people are friendly but an odd one who thinks too much of themself or their car crops up once in a while and turns a thread into a contest of who has the biggest....erm... Ego

As HotZ said, the brake fluid is supposed to be changed every 2 years as it breaks down over time (and absorbs water) just like any other fluid. As you described your fluid as being black, I'd definately say that it needs to be power flushed instead of simply bled out. A power flush will help to remove any debris and bits of corroded rubber line out of the system.

Good luck this weekend, and feel lucky that you've got a mechanic nearby for this very potentially frustrating job. A lift and air tools are immensely useful for certain jobs, while other jobs it is just helpful to have somebody around who has experience.

Did a (non-power) flush on my dark, nasty looking brake fluid a few weeks ago. Basically, just kept bleeding at each corner until the clearer fluid started coming out. This was done in conjunction with master cyl replacement.

I had a bit of misfortune in that 1 bleeder screw was seized and ultimately broke off. Fortunately, front calipers are not too expensive.

After driving for a couple of days, I re-bled the system and the fluid was pretty clear after just a couple pumps.

Just be advised, the bleeding pattern is likely not the old school longest to shortest method. It's probably criss-cross pattern RR, LF, LR, RF.

: While you are at it, have the complete system flushed and new rubber hoses installed. Contrary to popular belief, it is a wise investment to flush the old brake fluid out every few years. When things corrode on the inside, the result will be similar to yours.:naughty:

BTW: Welcome to AF!:newbie:

Do you mean each of the rubber hoses from steel lines to the wheel cylinders should be changesd? Are you saying they're likely to have deteriorated from older brake fluid that's "bad" or from age?

I change my fluid every two years by bleeding at each wheel cylinder until clear. (My wife supplies the power for the flush by pushing the brake pedal.)

Definately do as suggested and replace the M/C, most come with a self bleeding system now and aren't that bad to bench bleed, but flush the junk in the lines out as well.

If I may, i suspect this problem was caused by not opening the M/C fluid reseviour when resetting the caliper pistons.

Yes, the rubber hoses that connect the hard brake lines to the caliper. You do not have the rubber lines in the rear if you have drum brakes, so we are only talking about two, @ 10 bucks each. The hose deteriorates due to age and usually on the inside first, where you cannot see it. The first indication of a hose failure is uneven braking. I.e. car pulling to left or right when the brakes are applied. :crying:

When the inside breaks down, the hose acts like a balloon under pressure, therefore, the hose absorbs the line pressure, rather than the pressure being applied to the caliper. Any hose more than 10 years old, should be replaced! In addition, if you, or your trusted mechanic abused the hoses by letting the caliper hang by the hose while changing brake pads, of course, they would require changing more often.:nono:

One additional thought while on this subject; when you change brake pads, loosen the caliper bleed screw while compressing the caliper. This procedure will force the old fluid out of the caliper, into a waste container, rather than back into the master cylinder where damage can occur. Remember, always add new fluid to the master cylinder, when the job is complete.