Supra Turbo vs. Corvette Z06

This is one hell of a thread. You have to read it...
http://www.carforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10952&pagenumber=1

I think my post is on page 22:).

Man, that Ice man is an idiot. Z06 will kill the supra

He is dumb. He said "Any car" and we picked the Z06, then he said "Any car in the Supra price range" and we picked the Z06, and every frigging excuse he made was backed up by the Z06. Less expensive, faster, better handling, quicker, etc...Mr.Z06Man helped us a lot, too.

I emailed him. We needed someone with direct experience to finally shut them all up.

TS1 is the biggest idiot there.

Yes, some very idiotic people, that actually think they are smart. Oh well, they can think whatever, but obviously the Z06 does pretty much everything better than the Z06 for the same price. It's as simple as that.

i HATE to say this but a Z06 would kill a supra . Theirs no doubt about it the Z06 is just badass from all the stuff i hear and read about it theirs no way a Supra would win :(

Hmm, correction on my part, I said:
but obviously the Z06 does pretty much everything better than the Z06 for the same price.

What I meant to say was, obviously the Z06 does pretty much everything better than the SUPRA for the same price. Just a typing error. And for some reason I couldn't edit my post to change it...

I'll take a C5 coupe over a SupraTT much less a Z06.:)

I'd take a Magnetic Red corvette with black interior and top with magnesium wheels, then I'd take a black Z06 with the red interior inserts, and finally I'd take a Magnetic Red coupe with chrome wheels. A stock hard top is my last choice...

It's a hands-down victory for the 'Vette in my ballpark. Better looking, better performing, and more widely recognized.

Oh well. One is better made with better materials. The Vette is a nice car indeed, but not compared to a Maranello.

Oops, wrong post, I meant to put the Supra is a nice car indeed, but not compared to the Z06...

Guess I am heavily outvoted on this one, but I can't even tell you how many times over I would take an MKIV Supra TT over a Z06.

I know, the Z06 is brand spanking new, while that Supra was first released in.. I guess about the fall of 1993? The Z06 will beat it in most performance tests, but dammit, the TT can support 700 horsepower with stock internals! These things can be made into the fastest cars on the road! That's what they were made for, and they are no slouch in handling or any other aspect of sports car performance.

Yes its older, yes it weighs like 300, 350 pounds more, but it would take a lot more than a Z06 for me to sell out on a Supra TT. One of the cars I have the most awe and respect for, even more than a Corvette Z06.

Fastest car on the road? I doubt it. That car would be V8 powered.

JD...if you want to compare cars of the same time period, take a '93 or later ZR1. 405 hp and capable of reaching speeds greater than 190 mph. This for about the same price as the Supra ($55,000).

YES JD THANK YOU!! That's my opinion right there

I hate how all of you love the Z06 so much, I like the supra more and that makes me original :D

I think a ZR1 would absolutely smoke a SupraTT.

So you're saying everylone LIKING a car is bad? If everyone likes something, it usually means it is good, even meagazines say it is. I think C/D got paid off. They said the Z06 only pulled 0.93 Gs whereas the Road and Track said it pulls 1.0 Gs. I believe R/T. Who is right?

oh theres nothin wrong with everyone likin a car, but that's one of the reasons i don't like it, it's played out

In every message board, on almost every topic (exagerating a bit) the Z06 gets brought into the conversation, i'm just getting sick of it

Well the first time C&D tested the Z06 they got something like .98 or .99g on the skidpad. they also got much faster acceleration times too. I don't know what went wrong.

i would have to go with the Z06 just for a few reasons like


Performance,Relyability,Interior,Gasmileage,style, heritage,sound, and last but not least Its image as "Americas Sports Car":)
:p

I haven't heard to much about the Supra, and I like the Z06's styiling, that's why it would be my choice.

ok now

stock for stock of course a z06 is gonna win

but the modding potential of a supra is huge

the supra engine can handle upto 800 rwhp on the stock engine w/o changing out the internals

so a modded supra vs a modded corvette
who would win
i say the supra cause it would be way cheaper to mod the supra

i remember seeing a corvette TT a while bak in motor trend or some mag and it was fast but htey said it cost well over a 100k maybe even 200k i forgot

oh ya i jus saw a corvette a min ago

how can u lower it 1 inch like someone said they did to theirs in this thread

the lower plastic guard was like 1 in from the ground
is it even possible to lower 1 inch

u'd be scrapin everywhere, jus forget goin through a speed bump

i think when that corvette passed through the gas station driveway the plastic guard hit the little 1 in incline from the driveway to the road!

3 points make and a question asked
point 1
"stock for stock of course a z06 is gonna win"
duh thats what we are saying!!

point 2
"but the modding potential of a supra is huge"
like modding a vette is hard 350 have been around along time people have been modding them for years and doing it cheep too.

point 3
"the supra engine can handle upto 800 rwhp on the stock engine w/o changing out the internals"
missing the point if you are doing mods do mods seen a vette in C/D with 1200HP. in mods more money means more speed mods are pointless in this comparison there was a 1980 sunbird at the track wednesday that ran 8.23 in the 1/4 faster then most modded vette or supra around.

question
"so a modded supra vs a modded corvette who would win?"
Whoever spent more money wiser would be faster. vetter with a slight edge do to it being faster to start with.

The ZO6 has much better grip and an easier to tune engine. So I take a ZO6 over the Supra Trubo. But, the Supra is still an awesome car. :cool:

Wait one minute, I have been reading magazines for quite some time now, but I have never ever seen a zr-1 go 190mph. maybe a viper gts.

97 viper gts

I like both the ZO6 and the Supra. They are both nice sports cars and both have a lot of aftermarket mods availiable. The only reasons why I would pick the Supra over the ZO6 is that, first, where I live, there are not many Supras while it is possible to a vette everytime I drive, and second, that the ZO6 comes only in the hardtop form. The styling of the vette hardtop, as you get to the end of the car, tends to be a little weird; the butt sticks out way too much. I have to say though, if the ZO6 was offered in the coupe form, I would probably pick the ZO6 over the Supra.

Btw, anybody kno of any Chevy plans to put the ZO6 engine in the coupe and convertible? Thanx!

Haha that what I thought until a I saw my first Z06. That car is absolutely beautiful. It looks sleeker and lower. And the back even looks better too. Oh my god and those rims, WOW! The rear tires a wide that mkaes it look a lot more proportional. the car was amazing! I don't know how they do it. They managed to make the ZR1 look a lot better than a regualr C4 coupe and now they did the same thing with the Z06. Definetely one of the best looking productions cars out today.

And yes ZR1s are capable of running past 190mph. I remember some mag tested one up to 187 mph and C&D had one up to 183mph. Of course that was when the speed limiter kicked in. If it wasn't for the speed limiter the ZR1 would most likey be a 190+++ sub 200mph machine. Also the ZR1 that set the 24 hour speed record (which was stock too, they had a modded L98 along with it) ran a little over 190 in the beggining of the run. But most of the time they were running it up to only 75% of it's potential.

the Z06 engine will NEVER be in the coupe or convertable:) why?:confused: beats the crap out of me:D

Chevy's explanation for that is because the coupe and convertible boddies can't handle the extra power. I don't believe this, though. Personally, I think they are trying to raise hardtop sales. Hardtops were never very popular, though most of the Z06s were sold. And if you noticed, in 2001 only coupe, convertible, and Z06 models were offered, no standard hardtops.

Why do u have NOS on a Corvette which already has like, o i dont kno i am bad with numbers, sumthing like 385+ hp? Isnt the nitrous kind of unnessesary?

O btw, I am too lazy to check the forum for this, but doesnt the 2002 zo6 get like 410-420 hp?

The 2002 Z06 has 405 hp

Oh, yeah, my logic behind the NOS is...You can never go to fast, can you?? I am thinking of taking out the NOS though, and turbocharging instead.:rolleyes:

I actually own a 2001 ZO6 and researched the TT before buying. Here are the numbers. They speak for themselves:

2001 ZO6: '97 SupraTT:

Price: $48,600 $41,000
Weight: 3115 lbs 3528 lbs
Engine: 385 bhp @ 6000 rpm 320 bhp @ 5600 rpm
385 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm 316 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
0-60: 4.0 sec 4.8 sec
Top speed: 171 mph 158 mph (gov)
1/4 mile: 12.6 sec (114 mph) 13.4 sec (107 mph)

comparing stock cars, the ZO6 is lighter, has more horsepower and torque, handles better and is flat out faster than the turbo Supra.

The 2002 Corvette ZO6 does get a bump in horsepower and torque, but on the track it doesn't change the current numbers. Still does 0-60 in 4.0 secs and turns low 12's.

I'm curious how much all those modifications costed and If you really notice much improvement over stock.
I owned a '95 Mustang GT before the ZO6 and spent about $12,000 on aftermarket parts for only mild to moderate gains on the track. I would have been better off just buying a C5 in the first place

I don't know I'm not reall sure but I geard theres a cam set or something that raises hp up to 500hp. That's not bad, plus you can put on some aftermarket exhaust too. THe Z06s are all underated anyway. Their pushin like 400hp now and with the boost it will be like 420-430 actual hp. I like it:D:)

Teh 2002 Z06 will have 405 hp. WHy would you take out NOS for a TT, keep the NOS for whenever you fell like having some fun!! Would you get the TT from Lingenfelter, for somewhere near 650 (probably more) hp, then with NOS you could have 800+:eek: Thats amazing. ANd the ZO6 is awesome around the track, the Supra is not very good, but it can generate excellent skip-pad, not so good in real life.

On looking at your vette stats, without NOS, you probably have 530+hp. If you had Lingenfelter TT, you should have 700 hp, then 850+ with the NOS on. I envy you.

the zo6 is a car... not a package...
the coupe and convertible are not as solid structurally... that is why they wont do it...
so that answers that one...

the other thought here is about the supra bein turboed to 800hp.. great... but a vette could do 800 n/a, and it is not all that hard... then you s/c or turbo that... damn.. kills a supra...
not that a supra is bad... its a good lookin car... i wouldnt mind havin either car...

one more thing to note on the zo6... look for skunkwerkes to make a convertible/speedster out of zo6s...
the company was started by the guy that originally designed the c5, and they are taking zo6s and choppin the tops off... this means that they are starting w/ a structurally sound piece that is a real zo6, instead of "making" one... badass cars, with the windshields leaned back further than the vert vette... it was in autoweek a while back...

Breathing mods are the best. Modern engines are like track stars breathing through straws.

Gotta argue with you here. Instead of formulating an argument, it has already been done:

http://www.theoldone.com/articles/The_Soft_Head_1999/

Here's the take-home message of this article (with regards to your statement above), boiled down to a couple brief sentences:


...cylinder pressure relative to crank angle was "critical" and that cylinder pressure (quality of the burn) was what rotated the crankshaft, rather than big airflow numbers. Sufficient airflow is indeed necessary, but the real key is creating a quick, complete burn and all other components need to be designed as support systems for the combustion process.

OK, but if you add more oxygen, the O2 sensor detects your running lean, so it adds more fuel, compensating for the effect. And, bang, more power. If it didn't work, then howcome all the dyno's in the country see more power with any and/or all of these simple breathing things: cat-back exhaust, mufflers, headers, high-flow filters, new intake pleniums, bigger injectors/carbs, etc. They work big-time, and just look at turbos (more air, so more fuel, so more power. The engine is just a big air pump)
Someone wanna back me up?

Don't get me wrong, this approach works; but, it should not be mistaken for the be-all end-all approach for making power. What that article is all about, among other things, is that engines are not glorified air pumps. The author has done research showing that a better approach for making power is combustion enhancements, i.e. swirl and ideal combustion space at the correct phases of the piston stroke. And if you want to continue to increase engine efficiency and output, this approach will yield much more power in the long run than simply getting your engine to aspirate more air. Utilizing a given engine's air and fuel to achieve more thorough combustion the correct crank angles is truly forward thinking.

you guys are both 100% right there...
it just comes down to how you define breathing in an engine...
the "breathing mods" that people think of are the intake and exh.... simple and effective... but what jd is talking about is also breathing, it just depends on what the "breath" goes into... getting more "breath" into a motor is important, but how you utilize it is also important...

when you talk about plenums and carbs and inj's, you yourself are way beyond the normal breathing mods...
but they are still breathing mods...


so chris is saying "get more air into the engine"

jd is saying "use the air efficiently once it is inside the motor"

both say the same, just more in depth... both right

I read everything again, and JD is right. You have to be careful about efficiency, though. Usually, the factory should have it very good (with comprimeses, of course). For instance, there is a device called a Tornado, which is supposed to make the air flow better, but it doesn't work. It may work in a modded engine, but not always. So you have to be VERY careful.
The best solution: Cram in as much air and gas, get it out quickly, and use it wisely, just like a funny car (top fuelers, not really, they aren't to meticulus)
And BANG, power!!!! (The room erupts in cheers:cool: )

I too was thinking about my argument after I posted it, and I realized that Chris, you are right as well. Establishing engines as not just being air pumps is not contradictory to what you are saying, just sort of parallel. Both need to be done together. And, while I personally feel that the quest for more efficiency coupled with more power is more a question of tweaking and improving upon combustion technique at this point, say we perfect that someday (because there is a 100% theoretical ceiling to this), than the remaining factor to turn to will be increasing aspiration rates, once again.

(Now picture that scene at the end of the Naked Gun when all the baseball players are beating each other up, and when they see Leslie Nielson and Priscilla Presley on-screen they stop, and all start crying and hugging each other... well that's us right now)

tear (of mushyness)

you guys make me sick...

Group hug? Of course, with flylwsi at the center:D

Right on.

I am wasting so much time on here these days... ok, so I didn't go back far enough to read about anything pertaining to supra turbo vs corvette z06, so I'll start it up again. I'm a Z06 fan, but its not the vette I'd get. Ligenfelter just came out with a 427 package for the vette, and if you put on the z06 cylinder heads, its worth 50 more hp, the kit is good for either 500 hp or 550 hp (with z06 heads), I can't remember, its in this month's C&D. So, thats an instance of both better internal and exernal flow and air/fuel mods. Z06 heads allow for greater "breathing" but the bore and stroke job on the block itself is about as internal as it gets, short of completely remodeling an engine for direct injection... Now, for the Supra. I'm also a Supra Turbo fan, but for fewer reasons. The Vette is the best Vette yet, I'm not sure that the Supra does justice to "supra" its an entirely new animal relative to its crappy heritage of nice celicas. Even though its dead, and its "successor" won't be called the supra, most likely, the Supra is basically as good as Japanese cars available in the US have gotten, unless you are counting the NSX, which we won't b/c an all-aluminum mid-engined structure that can't in any way be traced back to a sedan platform isn't normal japanese stuff. (3000gt from galant, eclipse from galant, 4 degrees of camry: camry-->lexus es300-->lexus sc400-->supra... hell, anything Toyota can in some way be traced to the camry....). I have heard nutty stories of people getting insane hp levels out of supras, I think HKS has a mass-produced supra program that offers up to 650... anything up from there is someone's backyard creation. Its at the top of the tuner craze, but its roots are humble (it starts out with 320 hp, whereas eclipses and civics and crx are no higher than around 200 to begin with), so I don't know how to judge the lat supra turbo. However, if you want to use the z06 as a vantage point, then the supra is a bit mainstream (this is in comparison to a vette. obviously, a supra is not an accord), and a standard model that pulled out all the stops and didn't have a backseat would be a better competitor. The Z06 is the factory hot rod version of the vette. The Supra Turbo was a doctor's car, with a backseat when picking up the kids from his x-wife's, and plenty of grunt for the fun stuff. My Dad drives a Jag, even though I begged him to get a viper. it was the right decision for him, because in this argument, he's closer to the supra guy. A Viper driver, if he'd had less cash, would have been more likely to get the vette, right?

Bravo. Another interesting and inspired post. I too read about the Lingenfelter 427 (428?) Vette. I just can't help my overwhelming fascination with that ever-so-versatile MKIV Supra TT. And I am amazed by the power their engines can put out with stock internals (I've heard they're good for 700 hp with stock bottom ends!). However, I know that Supras can't hold a candle (so I've found) to Z06's on a race track. The Z06 bites at the heels of the Ferrari 360 Modena, in terms of handling, balance, stability, and good manners under a variety of conditions.

Besides that, I think with cars of this nature, it becomes a question of which technology captures your imagination better. Either one is faster than sin. I don't think that many (any?) decisive arguments can be made to declare one the superior car over the other.

I will agree that I think part of my fascination with Toyotas, Hondas, and other go-fast imports is their "underdog" economy-car heritage (the NSX of course being a few and far between exception to this rule).

i am scared by all this kindness i am getting here...

back to the point at hand then...
if we r talkin bout both cars and mods...

the zo6 STOCK has way better handling, and it can only be increased when you add some more power...
the supra disadvantage is the suspension then, not the motor, as the zo6 is practically a racer susp... whereas the supra needs mods that cost money... that money could go into zo6 motor upgrades for more power...
so the supra needs money to make it handle like the zo6, and money to get the power up there... all this on top of a not cheap price already... if you really like the car, go for it...

if you like a racer out the box, zo6 is it... susp worthy of cars twice and thrice its price, and hella power.... and relatively cheap mods...

but, on the other side, if you gots the dough to buy either one and mod it for hella power, it doesnt matter, and as previously stated, it comes down to the tech you wanna go with, and where you wanna start...
if you buy a supra and make it outhandle a zo6, im impressed... not as much with the zo6... know what i mean?
its like makin my lude outhandle the zo6...
that would raise eyebrows, just like the supra

oh, and on the internals, i am sure the vette internals can handle a shietload of hp stock also... im sure that the 750 # is easily attainable on stock innards...

Apparently, a stock Supra can generate awesome numbers, but isn't a good track guy. If you have enough money for either car, but want something a bit more and have, say, 10 grand for mods, the Z06 will always emerge the victor. If you have tons of money, then go for what you want.
Again, I'll take the Z06, what a car (and far better than Cobra R, heah,new thread!):silly2:

yep, if you're gonna compare them stock then Z06 wins hands down, but if you're gonna modify both of them, the things might turn around, considering I just saw a video of an 870hp++ Supra being dynoed last night again.... :D

And I just saw a dragster with 1300 hp in a chevy 350 on tv. I also saw a lingenfelter with a 427 vette motor with 550 hp. Put on his twin turbo package and theres 900+hp. HA:D

Originally posted by Chris
And I just saw a dragster with 1300 hp in a chevy 350 on tv. I also saw a lingenfelter with a 427 vette motor with 550 hp. Put on his twin turbo package and theres 900+hp. HA:D

and are they also street legal?

cmon people ive seen ls1 blocks with over 3000 hp :)

Originally posted by vettemaan
cmon people ive seen ls1 blocks with over 3000 hp :)

man, u guys talk like these super horsepower engines are an everyday thing!

an LS1 block with 3000hp is a race engine, not street

u see drag cars and such with super high hp engines all the time but theyre not street legal, ppl dont drive them on the street

this supra is street legal!! thats seems like quite a bit of horsepower to put down on the street if u ask me