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6.5L Diesel shooting out black smoke


johnnore
10-18-2006, 09:39 PM
I have a 95 6.5L diesel that is shooting out a lot of black smoke when you kick it down and does not go 75, would this be a injector problem, if so how would you diagnoise which ones it is and if not what are some other ideas

thanks
John

16th hippy
10-18-2006, 09:49 PM
don't have alot of experience with the 6.5's, but i know they are notorious for pump problems. this is not the best news for anyone, but i hope others can help more with the diagnostics. you could always take it to a shop/chevy dealer and pay them the diag fee, and go from there. Either way, the black smoke is a sure sign of "over fueling"....either the pump is pushing too much, or the injectors are leaking...or regulator(i think it is internal on the pump) is blown.

chrisk1500
10-18-2006, 10:19 PM
Is this truck a turbo?

If so this will most likely have NOTHING to do with the IP or injectors....

DON"T LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO START OFF BY SAYING THEY DON"T KNOW ANYTHING AND THEN START RATTLING OFF ABOUT HOW BAD THE IPs ARE!!!!!!

Scan your computer with a paperclip and see if you are getting a code 78....if so, check all of the vaccuum lines coming from the vaccuum pump up to the wastegate solenoid and from the solenoid to the actuator....

You will need to test for 15 inches of vaccuum on the line coming off of the solenoid....

alblogg
10-19-2006, 10:59 AM
My old Dodge Cummins use to put out a lot of black smoke but man it went way over 75!

chrisk1500
10-19-2006, 01:23 PM
Black smoke is wasted power......not a good thing......people who know what they are doing with a diesel are looking for as much hp and torque as possible with the smallest amount of smoke....

alblogg
10-19-2006, 01:34 PM
290k nothing but oil changes, filters and a water pump.

rrrj
11-29-2006, 12:38 AM
buy a well maintained cummins or 7.3 powerstroke. Or in other words.....................get a REAL diesel!! have 350k on my 97 7.3 and still hasnt skipped a beat. My old man made the mistake of buying a new duramax and got rid of it 2 months later cause he finally realized it was a chevy diesel? hahahahaha ABSOLUTELY LOVE CLASSIC CHEVYS THOUGH, HAVE A 77 K10 4X4 W/BB454 AND TH400. HAD A 68 Z-28 W/BB427 BUT GOT INTO TOO MUCH TROUBLE, BURNOUTS IN WALLYWORLD PARKING LOT= BAD IDEA

silicon212
11-29-2006, 12:51 AM
Now THAT'S the voice of maturity.

(sarcastic grin)

Back to the original question, my limited experience with diesels suggest possibly a leaky injector.

16th hippy
11-29-2006, 08:48 PM
well, since you wanna get real technical, it is an Isuzu engine....and if anyone wants to buy a used chevy diesel....i would reccomend a 6.6 over the 6.5, and make sure it is an engine code 2.....not a 1

chrisk1500
11-30-2006, 08:46 AM
If you are going to get techincal.....do it right!

The 6.2 and 6.5 were designed for GM by Detroit Diesel (owned by GM at the time)...

The 6.6 was designed by a company known as DMAX which is a partnership between GM and ISUZU.....

FWIW - the injectors are not the problem...

rrrj
11-30-2006, 10:57 PM
This is what my old man was doing when he bought a chevy diesel :banghead:
then he bought an f-350 king ranch and he was :p

EKJ
12-04-2006, 06:41 PM
Do you have a lightweigt version? Try to blend the EGR valve on the intake manifold. This often help, it is often caused by faulty Vacum valve or leaking EGR seals. Blend at valve in port to prevent engine light to come on. Best Regards Eyvind

Evsman
12-11-2006, 05:01 PM
Not getting enough oxygen. Check air filter, intake hoses from turbo to intake manifold. Check boost pressure. Listen for turbo spool up on acceleration.

69Charger
12-16-2006, 08:18 AM
Is this truck a turbo?

If so this will most likely have NOTHING to do with the IP or injectors....

DON"T LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO START OFF BY SAYING THEY DON"T KNOW ANYTHING AND THEN START RATTLING OFF ABOUT HOW BAD THE IPs ARE!!!!!!

Scan your computer with a paperclip and see if you are getting a code 78....if so, check all of the vaccuum lines coming from the vaccuum pump up to the wastegate solenoid and from the solenoid to the actuator....

You will need to test for 15 inches of vaccuum on the line coming off of the solenoid....

Listen up weiner.. I know a thing or two about Diesels and I say that 6.5's have a problem with Injector Pumps.. I do at least 10 of them a year every year since the 6.5s started to come off warrenty. In fact.. I do more injector pumps than I do brake jobs on sunfires. And I do them because they wear out and overfuel the engine causing a severe black smoke condition...

chrisk1500
12-16-2006, 10:34 AM
Hahaha....you have no idea what you are talking about do you???

NYCEGUY01
12-16-2006, 12:16 PM
Hey moron , if it wasnt for idiots changing all those "faulty" pumps for no reason they wouldnt have a bad name.
If you think a faulty pump is causing a black smoke condition ( rich= too much fuel) youd better go back to the lawnmowers youre used to working on.
He has a classic boost problem. could be the vac pump or the wastegate, or maybe just a cracked vac line.

This stuff is diesel 101

dvdmacdaddy
12-16-2006, 12:32 PM
It is not the injection pump!!!!!!!!! Yes they are known to go out mine did after 150,000 miles, when they go out you get spiiting and sputtering, random shutoffs, problems starting. If you have leaky injectors you are going to get alot of smoke when you START the truck. I'd bet EVERYTHING I own on it being related to your turbo. It is either the ECM, wastegate controller, the wastergate vacume pot, or the turbo itself. If you want a real true answer got here. These people know what they are doing.

http://dieselplace.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21

69Charger
12-16-2006, 01:06 PM
I've had problems with pumps causing sputtering, black smoke, starting problems... Never had a comeback saying my diagnosis and repair is innacurate... I've also had trouble with vacuum hoses rotting off on those trucks, and very rarely I've seen turbo problems.. but never black smoke related to a turbo problem

69Charger
12-16-2006, 01:07 PM
I've had problems with pumps causing sputtering, black smoke, starting problems... Never had a comeback saying my diagnosis and repair is innacurate... I've also had trouble with vacuum hoses rotting off on those trucks, and very rarely I've seen turbo problems.. but never black smoke related to a turbo problem

chrisk1500
12-16-2006, 02:58 PM
Now who's the wiener (notice the spelling)....

69Charger
12-16-2006, 03:01 PM
Don't matter much to me!

chrisk1500
12-16-2006, 03:02 PM
but never black smoke related to a turbo problem


Wow....you must have worked on all kinds of diesels....hahahaha.....better go back to working on gassers.....you obviously don't have a clue about turbo diesels.....:rofl:

jifaire
12-16-2006, 05:40 PM
For what it's worth ... my truck has almost 300K on the original 5068 pump ... and most GM mechanics will tell you that everybody (including them) changed out about a million Injection Pumps on the 6.5

ONLY

because they didn't know what they were doing at the time.. the big problem with the 6.5 is the electronic driver (PMD) on the pump, and when you change THAT instead of changing out the whole pump, the sputtering/dying/missing issues disappeared.

But that's all irrelevant to this thread, because the problem has nothing to do with injectors or injection pump. You aren't getting enough air, which means your Turbo isn't spooling properly.

I strongly suggest that you check the vacuum pump and lines (should have over 20" between the pump and the Vac solenoid, and at least 15" at the wastegate controller.) If you have less than this, you may need to change either the vacuum pump (no vacuum), or the solenoid (vacuum before solenoid, but not after), hoses (loss of vacuum at any point in the loop), or just go with a mechanical wastegate controller, like I did.

Once you get enough air in with your fuel, the black smoke issue will disappear.

Why isn't the problem injectors? Is it running poorly? White smoke on startup? Is your power balance off?

Why isn't it the pump? Does it run? Is your SES light on? Do you have any codes stored (you can use a paperclip to read the stored codes... if you need help with this, look at http://dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1380656&postcount=4 ; put in the paperclip, turn on the key, and watch your SES light flash ... it will flash each code 3 times, like morse code. To clear the codes, push the pedals down like it says

Looking for a mechanical wastegate controller? Well, you can build your own for under $10, but I bought mine because I wanted it right. Check out the 'turbomaster' at Heath Diesel (www.heathdiesel.com (http://www.heathdiesel.com))

Get that thing running right, and you'll be in love with your 6.5... you'll kick butt on the 7.3 PSD guy above.

DavidPhillips
12-16-2006, 07:27 PM
Hey,


I had the same problem with my 95 6.5 and it had a broken vacuum line from the vacuum pump to the wastgate solenoid on the drivers side valve cover. The plastic lines get brittle from the heat of the engine and age.

It was very easy to fix.

If you are getting vacuum up to the wastegate solenoid with no broken lines look at the vacuum line that goes from the solenoid to the turbo. Check for vacuum there. Unplug it and see if the rod move freely with your hand.

Report your findings.

Injector pump is very expensive compared to a simple vacuum hose. Start with the simple stuff first.

There are some people that will give bad advice on this forum. Be careful if it means buying something before checking to see what's bad.

I have never heard of this problem being an injector pump. It's the last thing I would consider buying. Right after I tried to see if it was low air in the spare tire.

DavidPhillips
12-16-2006, 08:39 PM
It's me again.

Had to run for a minute but I thought I would just shed some light on the leaking injector theory.


If an injector is leaking fuel out of it you will get white smoke as the motor starts up due to the fuel that leaked into the cylinder. If it gets really bad you will find diesel in your motor oil. This conditions is refered to as making oil.

Black smoke is produced by extreme heat and lack of air.

Diesel that is just leaking out not burning is going to be white smoke.

If you don't get a lot of white smoke your injectors are not leaking down.

Getting white smoke? Still other things it could be.

DavidPhillips
12-18-2006, 11:10 PM
Once you check the intake air supply and turbo with this kind of problem you need to move on to the exhaust system and check for a restriction there.

69Charger
12-19-2006, 08:12 PM
heres what mitchell says


"obstructed air intake to turbo"
"obstructed air outlet duct from compressor"
"obstructed intake manifold"
"air leak in duct from compressor to engine"
"air leak at intake manifold to engine joint"
"obstruction in exhaust manifold"
"obstruction in exhaust system"
"gas leak in exhaust manifold to engine joint"
"gas leak in turbine inlet to exhaust manifold joint"
"Engine cam timing incorrect"
"worn engine rings or liners"
"internal engine problems"
"dirt caked on compressor wheel and/or diffused vanes"
"damadged turbocharger"

If theres excessive noise like the ones I work on
"incorrect pump timing"
"incorrect pump pressure"
"internal leaks"
"defective pump"
"engine coolant temp sensor reading is 5 degrees greater or less than temperature on cold engine"


I have a list of corrective repairs as well as proceedures if you need them let me know and I'll send them

chrisk1500
12-19-2006, 10:26 PM
but never black smoke related to a turbo problem

Seems Mitchells disagrees with you then....

69Charger
12-20-2006, 08:19 AM
Doesn't mean they don't happen, just saying I've never had one...
I always get a chattering sound, sputtering and black smoke..

GMMerlin
12-20-2006, 12:15 PM
Alright,
This has become a pissing match that is totally uncalled for.
Go back to your corners..the fight is over and the thread is closed

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