i now hate someone just as much as i hate gordon, that what absolute bullshit what he did, it may have not been done on purpose(yeah right...) but come on you take out #'s 1 and 2 just to win the race, what if one of them were killed, and he did it to his team mate no less, that was jr's race and he should have won it, i now officialy hate brian vickers

To say 100% it was done on purpose, only one person can say that and that is Brian Vickers himself.

I do believe there were a few factors here,

1) the 48 which did not have on it's usual charge to the front and stay there all day appearence to it. I do believe that the car slowed, not abundandtly, but still slowed as soon as it hit open air attempting the pass.

2) the 25, with Vickers being intent on winning a race this year before leaving Hendrick Motorsports, and has been close, was hungry and maybe not paying attention. or thinking that Johnson was ready and able to make a run on the 8 and did not notice for that split fraction of a second the 48 slowed. I do believe that the 25 followed way to far up under the 48 at that point in the ending straightaway.

3) This is at Talladega, these guys are running WOT all day long for 500 miles. I don't know about you, but once that white flag flies, I'd be dropping that hammer through the floor and never lifting for anything.

Here in lies the problem, and it's not really Brian Vickers in my opinion. It's Nascar. Nascar is quick to throw up those "scoring loops" all day long. They can sit there all day long aswell and tell you in a pack of 43 cars, running nose to tail and seperated by seconds from 1st to 43rd, whose running where at exactly what point by computer telemitry. I still fail to understand why Nascar has such a problem determining who was where in what order and at what point the yellow came out in every situation just like this.

Judging by the coverage, I say Kahne was in front the time the yellow actually flew. But, I also say that the caution which occured at the front of the pack, the yellow should have flown the instant the 8 and 48 went sideways to protect Nascar's ojective of providing a safe but action pakced brand of motorsport for it's fans.

Also, Nascar has the ruling that if your are the cause of the caution, you don't get the free pass. I also believe that it should apply to the win. This makes the latest of several occasions this year where a race had been determined by a last lap "accident" in which the winner of the race was in some way directly related.

Dunno, I just want to see:

1-The exact lap time of the top 10 cars from the moment the spin begain to the moment the yellow was issued, including time delay in the events.

2-the in car telemitry from both the 48 amd 25 from the take of the white flag to the moment the accident occured. Let's face it, the point of the draft is by staying tucked up behind the car in front of you, your saving power in 'reserve' since that car has broke the air for you. But once you step our, and your not strong but another car behind you is.......

Lastly this in the dagger in which Nascar stabs it's top competitiors in the interest of providing "excitement" for it's fans. By locking them in a 10 way dog fight, with 33 unkowns looking for food in the same pit.

^ thats a good post.

i dont think vickers did it on purpose, i think what chad knaus said was dead on the money, and i dont particularly like knaus. vickers is just incompetent to some degree on those races, not completely. it was without a doubt entirely his fault imo and even though it wasnt intentional i think he should not have been allowed to win. if that means black flag then so be it. frankly i am shocked that dale jr wasnt irate. JJ certainly wasnt too happy. i dont like jimmie but i really did feel sorry for him and jr. what needs to happen is that nascar needs to find another solution to these damn restrictor plates. and for gods sake, drop one of the talledega races and add a decent track like rockingham or iowa, or another road circuit.

i agree, brian vickers shouldnt have got the win, he may not have done it one purpose, but he was still at fault, i can understand why JJ is mad, id be super pissed iif my team mate did that to me to, but hey, theres a plus, JR is still ahead of JJ and gordon in the points chase. I LOVE IT!

and for gods sake, drop one of the talledega races and add a decent track like rockingham or iowa, or another road circuit.

What's not decent about Talladega (except the plates)? I think NASCAR should go to a V-6 or put aero restrictions on the cars rather than carb plates, but the track itself is brilliant. Where else can you really see whether your car can take 500 miles of pedal-to-the-metal racing? I agree that the Rock needs another race and that the circuit needs either some more road races or none at all (I vote for more). But if you're going to cut a race, make it a cookie-cutter mile and a half track rather than a track with real character like 'Dega. I really think we need to add North Wilkesboro or another of the original tracks back into the mix. So what if it doesn't seat 400,000 fans? The TV money more than makes up for that.

What's not decent about Talladega (except the plates)? I think NASCAR should go to a V-6 or put aero restrictions on the cars rather than carb plates, but the track itself is brilliant. Where else can you really see whether your car can take 500 miles of pedal-to-the-metal racing? I agree that the Rock needs another race and that the circuit needs either some more road races or none at all (I vote for more). But if you're going to cut a race, make it a cookie-cutter mile and a half track rather than a track with real character like 'Dega. I really think we need to add North Wilkesboro or another of the original tracks back into the mix. So what if it doesn't seat 400,000 fans? The TV money more than makes up for that.

i agree that there are to many cookie cutters too. and talladega deserves a race imo. i just dont think it needs two races. and when you say whats not decent about talladega except the plates, nothing, i just cant stand the plates. i wouldnt mind as much if they did something else. like lower the cubes or take a couple cylinders out. just something else.

:1: For bringing Rockingham back.