i looked up the curb weight of a H1 to see just how much weight they lug around, and its almost 4 tons!!! (a little under 8000 pounds). the H2 is not far behind at over 6000 pounds/3 tons. If you ask me, thats outrageous that some people will buy these things and use them only for going to the gas station to buy some gas, drive back home, then drive back to the gas station to fill up on gas again lol.

To put the h1 and h2 in perspective, my family has a 30 foot "fifth-wheel" camper that weighs 7000 pounds. that includes all the furnishings and everything else from top to bottom. granted, the walls are made of aluminum on 2x4 studs, but the rest of the stuff really adds up. there is a huge frame under this thing holding it up and all kinds of stuff inside like a full stove and fridge and everything it takes for the 7 people in my family including me. the fact that the h1 is heavier than this 30 foot behemoth of a camper makes me laugh, and also the h2 isnt far off either. a couple of typical fat-asses and a full tank of gas would make up the difference and then some. (no offense to fat-asses out there lol. i get made fun of for being a skinny and lanky mo-fo, at 6 foot 1 and only 175 pounds,so i gotta even the score:iceslolan )

my point is that we dont really need to be driving around cars that weigh in at more than 2 times what similar cars back in the day weighed. for example, the 1973-1987 chevy trucks in c-10 form weigh a "fluffy" 3800 pounds dry curb weight. maybe a little over 4000 with gas and a driver. they can handle much more than any hummer in terms of trailering (especially with the 454 that was offered in c-10's back in the day, or their version of the 454ss lol). in fact, an old truck with a good-running straight 6 and a 4-on-the-floor manual can get almost 20 mpg in the city, compared to today's sedans of which some struggle to reach this mileage. also, the new ford mustangs weigh more than my truck, so theoretically, my truck would beat one in a race with the same power in the motor, except for the fact that trucks get horrible traction in the rear, so i would get my ass kicked, as well as aerodynamics... but still, its appaling to think that stuff is so heavy these days.

i gotta give some leway for the fact that safety standards are much higher these days, with sensors and airbags and different ways of building things that make them heavier, but i still dont buy the fact that cars are so much heavier just due to that. i have noticed that wheelbases and width's of cars have been getting bigger and bigger and cars are taller and taller. its just a thought lol

Well first off, take this in no way as a defense for the H2 and H3. Being in the Military I have had many opporitunities to test an H1. There is really no comparison its weight is a product of its capabilities. It will out tow a big block truck I am sure and we have proven that it will do better off road than a TJ jeep sport with a small lift and mud tires (not to mention a handful of other popular 4x4s). That thing is a beast. As for the Mustang.....Sure it got heavier but if you want a rigid chassis, lots of power and overall performance, and still be safe enough to pass standards....its going to be heavy. Your trucks engine and traction issues (as broad of a subject as that is) aren't the only thing separating it from a new mustang, not only in terms of performance but safety, structural rigidity, and comfort. So in short I am not disagreeing that cars are heavier these days, but I am also not taking issue with it.

All I know is that the ride sucks, and I want one. I awlays thought it was cool and my uncle has a hummer.

im not bagging on people that actually use the hummer for what it's made for. im bagging on people that just get a hummer for no reason and have a fit when there are rain spots on the paint they just had buffed and "oh no i dropped a french-fry between the seats!!!" these vehicles were not made for civilian road use, though off-road i bet they are good.

as for out-towing a big block, i agree with the military version probably being able to, but i guarantee that the civilain ones with their gm newer style v-8 or diesel engines (regular duramax i assume), cant do chicken squat compared to a big block that is made for towing, or against a regular truck with the same diesel motor that is 2k pounds lighter. obviously, these vehicles are capable of a lot in terms of the military versions, as in a 73 chevy truck would probably get blown up in 5 minutes in a combat zone, but on the street, where the only combat you have is trying to out-pimp your fellow drivers with the biggest rims and all that crap, the hummer just seems akward. ill stick with my old pickup thats rusted out with the 15 inch ralley's lol.

[quote=jveik]these vehicles were not made for civilian road use, though off-road i bet they are good.[\quote]

I'm not an expert on this but the feeling I get from the off-roading community is that many of them consider the H2 to be an abomination, like a "wannabe" off-road vehicle that sucks. But again, someone who know better please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hummers are not that ridiculous. I have a Hummer H2 (2004) and it comes in very handy.

The pros:
Very fun to drive off road
Does not flip (safer)
I can run stuff over
Scares smaller car drivers :grinno:

The cons:
Hard to drive in city
Looks weird
Scares hot chicks :shakehead

All 'n' all, I have that and a 2007 Dodge Charger, the Charger is for the city and the Hummer is off road, I disagree with what you believe.

wait, did you just say you HAVE a 2007 dodge charger?

lol heres one pro for the hummer... im assuming it has horrible braking compared to smaller cars, though any large vehicle would. but anyways, as for the pro i have for it, if one has a smaller car that is kinda a junker and wants some good times, step one is to drive ahead of a hummer at about 5 under the speed limit, they will surely get pissed off (stereotype of hummer drivers lol) and start tailgating about a foot from your rear bumper. Step two is to slam your brakes as hard as you can and hope for the worst looking collision possible in the rear of your car (obviously do this on a slow road lol with no people in your rear seat or they will probably be hit in the back of the head with the huge grille of the hummer). Step three is to get out and harass the driver of the hummer by saying you have a rare edition 81 honda accord ("This is an 81 honda!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!) and then let them know you dont really care that much and drive off.

i actually did this one time with my old pickup truck when someone in a new beetle was tailgating me and honking (yuppie trash even had one of them cellphone headpieces that you can talk into, like she was all important or something). the real thing that made me mad was that i was already doing 50 in a 35, so i didnt see why i should have to be "courteous" and speed up any more for this lady. anyways, shes riding a couple feet away from my 100 pound bumper and hitch ball, so i get the idea to mess with her. i just tapped my brakes enough to make the brake lights go on and she would slam her brakes only to find me not having slowed down at all. after about the millionth time, she finally got it that i wasnt gonna actually use the brakes, so she didnt fall for it anymore. thats when i slammed that freaking pedal to the floor and she completely slammed into me. i destroyed the "grille" of her car beyond recognition, though she didnt hit me hard enough to completely demolish nothing. and then pulled over. she had the nerve to blame it all on me and say i would be paying for her bodywork and "new airbags" or something like that, though i dont think they went off, i never noticed. so what did i do? i bid her farewell and i drove off into the sunset in my rusty but trusty old truck, although the rear bumper was kinda bent on the bottom corner and there was green paint all over it lol. she must have been smart enough to know her car was unable to be driven, cause she didnt follow me or nothing. now that i think of it, i bet it would have drove because if i remember correctly, they have rear engines anyways, so a frontal collision would just look bad but still drive. maybe she didnt know that lol... the cops must have told her it was indeed her own damn fault when she called my plates in, cause i saw her write them down.

Road rage...it's not pretty

h1= ok, good for an offroad vehicle and the military.
h2= total crap, sucks at offroading, horrible gas mileage, slow, totally impractical and mostly bought by the ignorant.
h3= more crap, which now comes with a loweley 5 cyl and only gets 20 hwy mpg, what a total waste of a car.

wait, did you just say you HAVE a 2007 dodge charger?


Americans have funny model years. Most cars registered new in America right about now will be registered as 2007 cars, I think the new model year starts in the 3rd Quarter?

PS jveik, New Beetles are front engined.

lol oh well she didnt hit me hard enough to do anything anyways, she just smashed the "grille" a little, though i guess its just the "hood" lol. whatever you want to call it. if i remember right, it has that hood that serves as the front of the car? ive never actually looked to see what they exactly have lol. i just rememver something had about a football sized dent/crease in it.

lol oh well she didnt hit me hard enough to do anything anyways, she just smashed the "grille" a little, though i guess its just the "hood" lol. whatever you want to call it. if i remember right, it has that hood that serves as the front of the car? ive never actually looked to see what they exactly have lol. i just rememver something had about a football sized dent/crease in it.

Why didnt you exchange information and act like its your fault and then get your vehicle fixed through her insurance and raise her rates too?

Hey its not practical but the bottom line is you cant beat it for off roading.

Hey its not practical but the bottom line is you cant beat it for off roading.

Or can you?

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/nantucketnectars/h2recov.jpg

Hey its not practical but the bottom line is you cant beat it for off roading.

they're hopeless for off-roading, they're too big and with such weight they're underpowered too.

they're not designed for off-raoding, they're more suited to tough environments and desert work. (as opposed to forest-esque off roading.)

H2s are worse, i've seen video of their tie rods snapping while off-roading.

The original Hummer is heavy, but it has no trouble going off road. I can attest to its abilities. I have put them in some really shitty situations that no civilian vehicle would make it out of.

As the owner of a fairly large truck by most standards (longbed ext cab 4x4 f350 460 auto) Im afraid I just dont see a point to what your tryin to discuss. The h2 and H3 I agree are completly useless and Im still utterly baffeld that they are produced. However the H1 one wasnt intended for civilian use at first it was a military vehicle with a diesel motor. These c10s you say can outpull one are not stock the suspension isnt designed to be overloaded. I know I had to trailer my truck home once and a friend with his big and bad c10 couldnt beleive his frame was siting on the axle with one truck and a car trailer. Each individual has there own taste in vehicles and some people just dont care about alot of things so long as the vehicle forfills its purpose. Most people wouldnt see the need in a 1ton ford pickup but thats not going to change the fact that I use and like my truck alot and even less people would understand why I have a tubular push bumper bolted to the front. Gas mileage isnt really a big deal if the vehicle isnt used daily my truck gets 8mph yes 8 and thats on a good day. I know a H1 with a diesel motor gets better than that and im pretty sure a H2 even averages better than that. A cars weight isnt really an issue to about 80% of america the fact is america itself is becoming much heavier since the 80s. I watched on cnn the other day that all of the major motor companys have had to redesign their seating and floors to accomadate the growing weight of the average person. They also have had to change the airbag which is a scary thing to a guy that weighs 98lbs. Dont get me wrong I dig old trucks but You cant compare a hummer to a pickup its like comparing Rosie Odonnell to Beyonce.

I think the H2 and H3 were intended to look good rather than perform well off road. The H1 Alphas were pretty much the closest thing to an off-road exotic.

I think the H2 and H3 were intended to look good rather than perform well off road. The H1 Alphas were pretty much the closest thing to an off-road exotic.

For the sake of discussion,
What about the Lamborghini LM002;

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/56-lamborghini-lm002.jpg


http://blog.kornemuz.com/images/200605/20061022b.jpg

http://www.damox.com/cars/thumbs/Lamborghini/Lamborghini_LM002_offroad.jpg

It had a V12, and was originally designed for military use.

It was a replacement for this, a Lamborghini Cheetah;

http://www.timpelen.com/images/cars/cheetah_img01.jpg

http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/Cheetah/CheetahRear.gif

http://www.getz.lv/img.php3?carid=327

The Cheetah was designed for hardcore military use and sported a rear mounted American V8. But the designs were scrapped when they realized that engines mounted in the rear were absolutely shit offroad.
Lambo was hoping to sell these to the US military since, at the time (late 70s, 80s), they were looking for something to replace the jeep. However, their first and only prototype was annihilated during testing.

I read Lamborghini was thinking about reintroducing a SUV supposedly based on the LM002.
A few potential concepts, dubbed "LM00X";
http://www.neuralblog.com/_blogImages/Auto-News/largeImage/id295_Pg1_34338_image1a.jpg

or,
http://www.edmunds.com/media/il/news/2005/1004/lambo.lm00x.500.jpg

In my opinion, they both look pretty hideous and look like a pretty big departure from the original LM002. It isn't intended for hardcore shit like rockcrawling, and wadding through 10ft of mud. But more for shit like The Dakar Rally (although it would most likely be raped in its stock form), or for generally blazing through the desert at lunatic speeds.

H2s are worse, i've seen video of their tie rods snapping while off-roading.

No, you've seen ONE video of ONE tie rod snapping during a rock crawling event. That happens to the BEST of offroaders, especially when doing events like the Rubicon.

In fact, the H2 uses mostly GM 2500 series HD parts under it, with a number of specifically designed offroad parts, as well as a frame that is 2/3rds fully custom to the H2. Just because most people dont' USE them for offroading doesn't mean that suck at it.

Yes, the H2 is based on the Tahoe/GMT800 chassis. But that chassis has been beefed up, and everything in it has been reworked. Remember, that GMT800 chassis was based on the GMT400, which was the basis for some of the most serious work trucks GM has ever built. Only the center section matches the Tahoe, with new hydroformed front and rear frame sections specific to the H2, and designed around keeping everything protected, and allow for extremely short overhangs (the Tahoe and pickup trucks don't concern themselves with those things).

http://www.elcova.com/h2/cad5.jpg
http://www.elcova.com/h2/cad2.jpg

Seriously, if anyone think it's just a glorified Tahoe/Suburban with a different skin, they're grossly mistaken. 70% of the frame is all new, and specific to the H2, as is much of the suspension.

Bosch four-channel antilock braking/traction control system (ABS/TCS) provides optimum control on slippery surfaces. In addition, the ABS can detect and adjust its braking capabilities to rough off-road surfaces like gravel and potholes. The TCS also provides new-for-GM capabilities, including the ability to gain traction through a single wheel, if necessary. A new feature controlled through a separate driver control switch is the TC2 function. This provides for more wheel slip in the traction control mode for sand and desert racing conditions. Its extremely short overhangs, including a 32.6-inch front overhang and 34.6-inch rear overhang provide high approach and departure angles, allowing H2 to drive right into a hole and out again without getting hung up in front or rear. all components were packaged flush with or above the frame rails. This provides better protection during underbody impacts. It also allows the vehicle to slide over obstacles more easily on the frame rail or rocker protection.

The H2's front shocks contain unique features for off-road performance. They have a large, high-strength 40mm center tube and a secondary integral bump stop feature, which allows them to absorb jolts at two junctures. Full-size trucks typically have only one urethane front jounce bumper. When severe bumps push the suspension toward the frame, it acts like a final cushion to protect the suspension from hitting the frame. The H2 also has a secondary jounce bumper built into the shock. So, rather than taking all the load at the bump stop attached to the frame rail, it takes some of the load with the shock's built-in bump stop, slowing the suspension's travel before it hits its final cushion.

The problem people who sit around armchair-quarterbacking the H2 have usually centers around the twin facts that the H2 was designed to be more comfortable inside than the H1, and that most buyers won't use them for actual offroading. That does not negate the fact that the H2 was in fact designed from the ground up to go where there are no roads.

In fact, a lot of owners DO take them seriously offroad.

http://www.elcova.com/h2/randlallh2.jpg

http://www.elcova.com/h2/palzerh2-2.jpg

http://www.elcova.com/h2/palzerh2.jpg

http://www.elcova.com/h2/oleyellh2.jpg

http://www.elcova.com/h2/muddogh2.jpg

So next part of the discussion, pay NZ$150,000 for an H2 and get build quality worse than a NZ$19,000 Hyundai Getz....



Sounds like NOOOOOT a sweet deal




Worthless POS that only exists to cash in on White upper middle class Americans inferioirty complexes. I'll take a Landcrusier or Discovery thanks...

Ive seen exactly ONE Hummer in my city that actually looks like the owners take it off road. Most of the other ones are bone stock, perfect shiny paint, and usually some huge dinner plates for wheels. Pathetic what some people will do just to get attention. Waste of time, money, and resources. I cut off Hummers like those on purpose. I cant count the number of times ive been tailgated by some moron in a Hummer/Escalade when I was ALREADY going 20-30 over the limit. Whats the big deal?? Drive a normal sensible car that doesnt put you into debt. More importantly, stop beleiving that you are some mythical god that is better than everyone else. :disappoin

More importantly, stop beleiving that you are some mythical god that is better than everyone else.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing here, and when you cut people off on purpose? Hypocrite.

I don't drive and H2, nor do I want to own one. But I hope one runs your sanctimonious ass over one of these days.

yes yes, we get the message, WE MUST LOVE ALL CARS EQUALLY, even the shit ones.

The point is why do people need to live in such excess when people around the world (and in the US for that matter) will never even be able to touch a car in their lives because they are so poor.

The point is why do people need to live in such excess when people around the world (and in the US for that matter) will never even be able to touch a car in their lives because they are so poor.

Ugg I was onboard with disliking H2s until I read this.

Ugg I was onboard with disliking H2s until I read this.
:1:

Guess im missing something. If I want a car that can go off road, for $50k there are a hell of alot better buys than a hummer.

So basically once you hear an arguement that involves thinking about other people you call it shit. I see.

So basically once you hear an arguement that involves thinking about other people you call it shit. I see.

You know, the money you spend on internet service could easily feed 10 starving kids in Ethiopia.

such excess...

Also, we can't hate inanimate objects. However, we can hate the people who drive them.

http://www.boredstop.com/imgp/hbus.jpg



LOL

one less insult to the Hummer name.

http://www.boredstop.com/imgp/hbus.jpg



LOL

http://sessionghost.com/RockOn/Dude/hdhoag/HummerH2_images/hummer_asque.jpg

i'd rather have a Ram 3500..

No, you've seen ONE video of ONE tie rod snapping during a rock crawling event.

Actually, i've seen two.

my friend drives a '92 Hilux, his dad bought it for use on his farm. they used it for general farm use, travel, his dad circum-navigated the world in it over a 3-month trip, it's done over 1,200,000 miles on the chassis in the last 15 years, 920,000 on the oringinal engine and i'll it needed was regular servicing and maintenance.

you think a $50,000 hummer could ever come close to that? i don't think so. they can be beaten for off-roading. the H2 is what's known as a "soft roader" it looks like it should have total off-road ability, but it's actaully intended to stay on the road. H2s, X5s, Navigators, Range Rovers and Cadillac Escapades all have some off-road ability because they're sold as off-roaders. you can't sell a car in that sector if it has NO off-road ability. so they have some, just not that much.

looking at your pictures of them, they can cross fords and do small jumps, but they won't last long if you do that to them. take a real off-roader like a Hilux, Defender or F-250 and they can handle that over and over, because it's what they're built to do. H2s are built purely for use as a status symbol.