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Too nice???


erb
09-28-2006, 07:28 PM
I don't mean to be a prick but, I see alot of peoples threads that everyone is sayin its amazing beautiful or stuff along that line and not giving help where it is needed. I wonder if this is off limits or anything because I see alot of the same mistakes over and over again. Can anyone help me with this?

DAVE

Jay!
09-28-2006, 07:39 PM
Constructive criticism is always welcome.

erb
09-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Alright thanks Fubaz.

willimo
09-28-2006, 08:26 PM
A lot of people do like constructive criticism, but most don't unfortunately. And a lot of people are able to give criticism as well, but most people just say something like "I don't like it/the wheels/the color," which may be valid if properly supported, but most often is not. That's why you'll see a lot of "That's greats!" and no other posts. Personally, unless I know the builder, I tend to refrain, because comments are often taken poorly. So, I often won't say anything at all. I think that is, unfortunately, the norm around here.

freakray
09-28-2006, 08:26 PM
Constructive criticism is welcome, being downright rude is not.

Dean23
09-28-2006, 09:46 PM
I would like all kind of responses in my threads....advice or good comments or hey if you do this it will make things better... I dont mind, but I dont want rudeness.

Flea
09-28-2006, 09:48 PM
what i have done... when i look at one if it is something that i see ... that i think i have a better way to do it .. i will send the person a PM ... i rarely reply to a thread on a model less it is to receive updates in mail about it ...

73superduty
09-28-2006, 10:17 PM
I recently ran into this with one of my builds. I sent a PM to the person about his comments.
What he meant too say cannot be accessed throught the computer screen. So we were reading it different. He did agree that tact would have been much better instead of being blatant.
That's the whole thing right there. being tactful when offering constructive criticism.
I too come from the old school of, if you haven't got something nice to say then don't say anything at all.
The people who truly want to help you grow with your modleing will be the ones who put forth the extra effort in a pm, or the tactful constructive criticism instead of calling it out and being flat blatant about the whole thing.
Anyway, that's my take.
Chris

alakai
09-28-2006, 10:36 PM
Being one of the "that's great!" posters that Willimo mentioned, I totally agree... you never know how someone will react to criticism, and some people can be downright rude with their opinions. The problem is that you're not only offering a critique on someone's modeling skills, but also their styling taste as well.
I'll usually comment on obvious errors or if someone states that "comments and suggestions welcome."

tigeraid
09-29-2006, 12:08 AM
I don't see how it's hard to simply word it carefully. "This is great build--paint looks a little dull, might I suggest a wetsand with such and such and some polish?"

or "The interior detail is great so far--have you thought about adding some homemade seatbelts?"

If someone can't take constructive ideas like that in stride, then IMO they shouldn't really be posting their work here, especially not the WIP threads. That's what they're there for, as far as I'm concerned.

RallyRaider
09-29-2006, 02:43 AM
It's always more encouraging to accentuate the positives of somebody's hard work, which I think is why all the "beautiful work" comments are made. Why harp on a small point of construction/finish if the overall build is a personal best for the modeller in question? For sure, most people in the quest to do better next time should welcome constructive criticism. Realistically no build is perfect and can always be improved, nobody knows that better than the masters.

Feel free to offer advice but be respectful enough to make sure you are tactful, relevant and have your facts straight before you start. Proper use of the English language would add a touch of class too. ;)

RallyRaider
09-29-2006, 02:50 AM
If someone can't take constructive ideas like that in stride, then IMO they shouldn't really be posting their work here, especially not the WIP threads. That's what they're there for, as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly - I personally appreciate criticism during my WIP threads, when there is still opportunity to correct the issue. I'm not so fond of it after the model is finished and nothing can be done! :lol:

potsie
09-29-2006, 04:46 AM
I agree with all the comments here. One thing I find a real problem in the modern era of impersonal communication (especially professional emails) is the inability to judge someone's tone and meaning from those archaic skills such as reading facial expressions. The way a particular sentence is interpreted by a reader can vary greatly depending on there own mood. I think people need to be very careful to write clear, unambiguous messages.

As for criticism, pointing out a way to improve skills, such as suggesting the use of decal softener or warming a spray tin before use to reduce orange peel, should be encouraged. Remember, we all start with no skills or experience, and if no-one shows you of a better way you will never progress. On the other hand, comments such as "I don't like the colour" or "those wheel look rubbish" are pointless, rude and only serve to highlight the intolerant nature of the person making such remarks.

Rant over.

pirata12
09-29-2006, 05:35 AM
Also some criticism may be given in a language that in not one's native one so they may battle to express themselves? Luckily for me I can't ever give constructive criticism because I'm no where near the level as most people on this forum. So I just learn as I go along. I love criticism but I find some people wary to give it for fear of offending. I think rudeness is out but I try take things with a pinch of salt.

white97ex
09-29-2006, 08:00 AM
I always encourage constructive criticism in my thread. as long as they aren't bashing my build technique or offending me, I take it as good intentions, and examine their views to help me become a better modeler. I try to refrain from giving it, unless, like willimo said, I know the builder or have posted in a lot of their threads. I'll make suggestions on how to do this or that. I have read some critiques on here that were down right rude and bordering on hateful, no matter how you look at the post.

slk320
09-29-2006, 10:47 AM
I am always honest - sometimes I point mistakes and suggest solutions, sometimes I say nice things becuase I actually mean them. I would not give a "fluff" compliment randomly.

Slippery
09-29-2006, 11:19 AM
I agree with most of the comments here....With anything I build I dont want to hear that it sucks I just want to hear ways that I can improve and grow. Use tact and try not to be too blunt
If you cant take any kind of negative comment then you really shouldnt post

MPWR
09-29-2006, 11:38 AM
Another part of the problem is that not all of us post builds for the same reasons. Some of us (perhaps some of the less experinced builders) are genuinely looking for guidance in how to make their builds better as they go. Some want artistic opinions (do these wheels make me look phat?). Some of us think that we know it all and got it wired, and post mostly to show off- or to show what can be done. Some of us are trying to share and teach techniques. And some are probably hoping that a string of 7 or 8 "dude, cool build" kind of responses will help bolster morale and prop up their senses of building ability. But if you misjudge what the poster is looking for , they may not appreciate your input in the way it was intended.

Constructive criticism can be a great way to learn and to encourage modeler's skills to grow- however it's also hard to judge what will be useful to a builder and what won't. Someone who posts in one of my threads "nice paint job, but you should darken the panel lines" may recieve the electronic equivalent of an eye roll. Not at all that I don't appreciate the interest in my build and the effort to post a comment (I do), or that I will get upset/offended/pissed off (I won't, I promise)- it's just that the appearence of the panel lines is something I've likely already considered. However, someone who posts and says "hey, that oil line running out of the cooler goes to the scavenger pump first, not straight to the reservoir" will certainly have my appreciation. But then, I certainly can't expect most people to know what would be useful for me (or even useful for other people watching my build).

This topic does come up pretty regularly (2-3 time a year), and always gets a discussion- but nothing ever comes of it. :disappoin Sure, there seem to be many of us who would have things otherwise, but until we actually discuss what we want to do about it nothing will ever change.

As Phil pointed out, constructive criticism can be useless/irritiating on an already completed build. However, for the past few months we've had Completed threads segregated from In Progress ones. When the idea of the segregatoin was first brought up, it was suggested that the In Progress areas could well be run as clinics- where building techniques and ideas can freely be demonstrated and excanged. There's nothing at all wrong with "dude, that's cool" in the Completed area, but if we want them to be the In Progress areas can be more than that.

To get that, we would likely have to discuss, decide on, and declare an expected and accepted level of critical participation (we're probably talking polls, discusions, and stickies here). People posting In Progress builds may not get constructive criticism, but they would have to recognise the possibility of it. If you post, it's an open invitation for people to constructively criticise- even if what they offer may not be of interest, use, or relevance for you. Yes, your thread may occasionally get sidetracked as two people discuss the finer points of a technique you're not going to use. But we all may (or may not) learn someting more. And of course, "Ooo, I like it" posts will still be welcome, too.

So is this what we want? Do we want to do something about it? (Or have we all vented enough to get us through to March?)

bhop73
09-29-2006, 11:44 AM
If it wasn't for criticism, I (or anyone) would never improve. If i'm doing something that has some issues, I want to know what my weaknesses are, even if I don't see it myself, so that I can work on improving those weaknesses for future builds.

Personally, I can take any kind of criticisms that are thrown at me, it comes from my years as a graphic designer I guess, it just comes with the territory. In this profession, if you can't take criticisms, you don't survive long... but admittedly, most people aren't the same way, so as someone mentioned earlier, tact is best for public forums like this or else things could get confusing and someone might get offended

klutz_100
09-29-2006, 12:54 PM
(Or have we all vented enough to get us through to March?)
:rofl::rofl: - the acid man is BACK!!! YAY!!!! ;)

Dave5.0
09-29-2006, 01:12 PM
I have alot less experiance thanmany of the guys on here, so I look forward to somebody pointing out what I could do better or improve for next time. I have not posted to mush of my work on here but with winter coming will be at the bench alot more and should have time to post some of my progress on differnt projects.

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