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Intermitten starting problem


Huney1
09-22-2006, 01:21 PM
Wednesday I had been running around doing errands and stopped by to see a friend and when I went to start it up it acted like the battery was just about to go dead and barely turned over enough to start it. The engine was normal temp, no sign of overheating and I had stopped and started it several times that day with no problem. I put a new battery in it May 12, 06 so it should be good. Got home shut it off and started it up and it turned over fast and started like it should.

Thursday all day it was OK and I was on the road doing service calls most of the day and in the evening we went out for dinner, no problem starting all day.

Today, Friday, it started fine, I did a service call then went to the bank and shut it off. In the bank about ten minutes and came out to start it and the same old yow-yow-yow real slow same as before like the battery was about to die or real weak. I sat a moment then tried it and it turned over slow but it started up.

In May 2006 I put a new Advance Auto Silver battery in it to the tune of $67.00 so I went there and they tested it and said nothing wrong with the battery and the alternator is putting out plenty of juice. I shut it off and started it five times and it kicked over fast every time. Said they have a magnetic starter and sometimes they will do that intermitten slow start thing and the only thing to do is get a new or rebuilt starter.

I know nothing about starters so what should I do now? I priced a starter and bottom line is $130. bucks. How hard is it to put one on a 2003 Vulcan engine? Any other tips or suggestions? The battery terminals and cables look brand new.

shorod
09-22-2006, 02:04 PM
Is there a time frame of sitting that usually causes you to have a problem?

You may have leaky injectors or a faulty fuel pressure regulator or something that is causing the cylinders to fill with fuel if it sits for 10 minutes or so as the fuel pressure bleeds off. The cylinders fill with fuel, causing near hydro-lock and the starter to struggle to turn the engine over. If the engine sits for a few hours, the fuel in the cylinders either evaporates, soaks in to carbon buildup on the valves, or leaks past the rings.

When the car finally does start, do you see momentary black exhaust? After it has sat for an hour or two, pull the dipstick and see if there is an odor of raw fuel in the oil.

-Rod

Huney1
09-22-2006, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the prompt reply. Come to think of it, you're on the money there because both times it sat about ten minutes. It's been sitting two hours now and I pulled the dip stick and no odor of gas at all, I put Mobil 1 in it and it has very little odor to it.

"When the car finally does start, do you see momentary black exhaust?" Didn't look for the black smoke but next time it does it I'll grab a passerby and ask them to look for me. I stuck my figers up the tail pipe and rubbed around and they come out almost clean, nothing brown or black on them at all.

Hydro-lock: Doesn't sound good at all and is there any chance I could bust a piston or bend a connecting rod? Only 43.6K miles on it and seems way to early to be putting big money into it for engine repairs. As for leaky injectors, when I bought it in April of 06 I put a few bottles of WalMart injector cleaner in it and it runs like a scalded dog and gets good gas mileage.

Hmmm . . . I have to run an errand and when I get back I'm going to let it sit five, then ten, then fifteen minutes and try cranking it and see what time frame makes it lug and watch the exhaust. Thanks much Rod, you da' man.

I found the starter no sweat.

Huney1
09-22-2006, 04:18 PM
Went to Advance Auto and got some whoop-dee-doo injector cleaner called "Sea Foam" suppose to clean 'em good and melt out any carbon or whatever build up in or on them. Had half a tank of gas and dumped it in and put two gals in to stir it up. Gas now $2.13 here so I'll do some cruising this week end and see if it clears up and if not I'll look for a shop that has a fuel injector cleaner-flusher machine.

I checked the maintenance records and the fuel filter was changed at 30K miles and air cleaner changed a month ago 43K mi. Ya'll have a nice week end and drive safe.

shorod
09-23-2006, 12:57 AM
I'm not sure I'd suggest you spend the money on the shops fuel injection flush machine. The Sea-Foam is probably better. When I worked at Dad's shop, we had a fancy Snap-On power fuel system cleaner. We tried it a few times and the customers soon returned, dissatisfied with the job and the expense. We re-imbursed them and put a bottle of $2.99 fuel injector cleaner in the tank. They came back in a day or two and apologized, saying the car now runs MUCH better. It could be that it just took a day or two for the Snap-On chemicals to do their work, but I'm not so sure.

As part of the routine oil change service, we would add a bottle of fuel injector cleaner to the fuel tank (along with checking the spare tire inflation, other tire inflation, belts, hoses, fluid levels and conditions, filters, wipers, and all exterior bulbs). The regular customers never had fuel system issues since we started the routine injector cleaner treatments. Even a few new customers would stop back the day or two after having their oil changed and express that they didn't understand why the oil change made their cars have so much more pep.

-Rod

Huney1
09-23-2006, 05:40 AM
Got'cha fine Rod and 'preciate you sharing your experienced hands-on info.
I cranked it a few times after I got back and it kicked right over no sweat and we're going to Savannah to look at those new portable A'C units so I'll put some miles on it and let the Sea Foam work. HA! The label on it sounds so good I might try rubbing some on old Arthur, (arthritis), in my knees.:yikes:

Once a week I go to out-islands 20 miles away so the engine has a chance to get good 'n hot. I stick it in passing gear a few times and let it wind out so shoudn't have that much carbon build up on pistons or valves.

Since I replaced the O2 sensor she idles smooth as silk and when I stick it she really honks, plus I siphoned out and replaced 12 qts of Mercon V so can hardly feel the tranny shift. The former owner is an old Dude like me and took real good care of it. They lived up North so it made a few trips on the Interstate when they moved South. Think I'll hang on to it awhile because it's paid for and doesn't burn any oil, it rides and drives good and has plenty of leg room for a long legged feller like me. 43.6K miles on her and she's just gettin' broke in good. :grinyes:

Huney1
09-26-2006, 09:27 AM
Been four days and about 150 miles since I put the Sea Foam in and it hasn't balked once, so here's hoping it's fixed.

Huney1
10-08-2006, 07:34 AM
It has been 16 days since it did it, then yesterday it did it again. Had been running errands and shut off the engine then tried to start it up again in maybe five seconds and no go. Just like the battery was real weak and barely turn the engine over, shut the AC off and tried to crank it and it would only click like the battery had suddenly gone almost completely dead. Let it sit about 15 minutes then came back and it fired right off like nothing ever happened. I stopped two or three more times during the day and always cranked right up.

I put a new battery in a few months back and had it tested and it is good and the alternator is putting out like it should. Last evening I cleaned the battery terminals and cables but they already looked spic and span.

Baffled . . . .

shorod
10-08-2006, 02:18 PM
...shut the AC off and tried to crank it and it would only click like the battery had suddenly gone almost completely dead. Let it sit about 15 minutes then came back and it fired right off like nothing ever happened.

Was this a single click, or a rapid series of clicks? If a single click, then you may have a failing starter. If a rapid series of clicks, then what happens next time if you have a door open or a the headlights on when you attempt to start the car. Do the lights dim considerably? After a few attempts, is the positive battery cable warmer than ambient?

-Rod

mwt878991
10-08-2006, 03:06 PM
Check all of the wires that are part of the starting circuit.

Hot wire from battery to megafuse,

ground wire

from battery to starter

Mike
:smokin:

Huney1
10-08-2006, 04:02 PM
"Check all the wires part of the starting circuit."
I believe it has something to do with the wiring because it acts like it's not getting a good connection somewhere. Only has 44K miles on it so I hope the starter isn't going out already. I know better than to hold the key to crank when it ain't gonn'a happen 'cause you are apt to make a bad situation worse and fry something and the instant I realize it isn't going to crank I let the key go.

"Do the lights dim considerably? After a few attempts, is the positive battery cable warmer than ambient?" It was daytime and the AC was on but I did notice the fan slowed waayyy down when I turned the key to crank it and the engine rolled over real slow. Turned it of and turned the AC off then tried it again and that's when it clicked a few times, then I turned it off to wait awhile. Today it did fine and I was in and out a few times so next time it does it I'll feel the battery cables. Tomorrow I'll check the cable connections to the starter and ground and make sure they're making good contact. Thank ya'll very much.

shorod
10-08-2006, 09:33 PM
If the starter relay/solenoid is clicking a few times, that would indicate low voltage to the relay and/or solenoid. If the starter were engaging, just not able to turn the engine over, you'd probably only hear one click, the battery cable would get warm, and if the key were left in the start position long enough, you'd start seeing smoke.

Sounds like you should focus on making sure all connections are clean and tight, the battery cables are OEM style molded cables, not the bolt-on temporary ends, then look into the relay and ignition switch (not key cylinder switch, but the ignition switch module).

-Rod

Huney1
10-09-2006, 10:15 AM
I cleaned the power connection cables and battery terminals and will wait to see if it does it again. I'm to old to get under it because of a bad back so called a mechanic and said labor to replace the starter $80.00 and I priced new one on line and it's $130. so about $210. to replace it so no financial disaster.

Since I bought it I put 6K miles on it and all I did was replace an O2 sensor for $41. and a few other minor, inexpensive things, so I believe I got myself a good used 03 Taurus and I have no problem spending a few bucks on it. Beside all that, IT'S PAID FOR! <Grin> Gas went down again and now $1.97 here. <Grin again>

Huney1
11-09-2006, 02:44 PM
Yesterday I was at a friends house and when I tried to crank it all it would do is click, starter dead as a door nail. Had a wrecker haul it to an auto electric shop up the street and they rebuilt the starter for $138.30 labor included. Guy said the brushes were shot and the brush holder and something about the armature. I turned the key and fired right off so good to go now.

Ryan44
02-26-2010, 10:58 AM
Wow, this site is great. I've been experiencing the same problem on and off for a couple months now and have had it at two different shops. Telling each one that I think it could be the starter after having replaced the battery myself and having the Alternator checked out as fine. They both said they couldn't recreate the issue. Funny when I got in to drive it away from each, it was still sluggish. Well after two blizzards here and plenty of driving my truck, I go to start my car the other day and zippy...Radio, lights and dash all illuminate and come on and just a single click when I turn the key...Called a third shop to come tow it and have it fixed. Frustrating...

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