Honda vs. Scion

ok. So Im getting a new car..

and its either the Scion tC or the Honda Civic si coupe (it will be 2007 or 06)

I want to use it for racing, and here is my problem... the Scion HP is 160 and the Hondas is 197. But I cant find any turbocharger that can get the honda past 250 hp, but the turbonetics can get the Scion tc up to 300 hp.
here is the scion kit
http://www.turbo-kits.com/tC_turbo_kits.html

and here is the honda kit
http://greddy.com/home/?id=203

Thy both have nice interior, but I like the hondas more, its got a digital headsup display for the MPH, and its a 6 speed. The scion is only a 5 speed.

The Si is pretty new, I'm sure there will eventually be a lot more kits out there for it. Infact there are probably already a few more out there. You also should think about emissions, one kit might pass while another will fail. Usually the more power you gain, the less likely it is to pass.

Ive been hearing alot of stories of otherwise idiots who keep destroying there engines in the tc's. You have to remember while one car makes 300 hp and the other makes 300 which one is lighter, which one revs higher, whats the gearing and trans layout, how much torque does it make. Like civicspoon said the si is still new while the tc has been out for a few years now. And if your going for a race car its usually better to build your own kit then to buy one, you can run standalone ecu and fuel systems, better/bigger turbo, tube manifold instead of cast. And before you go throwing 5-10 psi on a bonestock engine i would at least see what others have done to that specific engine. Casue either lower compression pistons might be in order, bigger fuel pump, injectors, and so forth. Race cars arent cheap, and daily driven race cars are even more expensive. I havent actually seen any of these destroyed engines, but since the honda is using the k-series which is starting to gain a very good reputation it might be the better bet. But its all into what you choose.

the honda is far superior than a tc. but its also more expensive. if your trying to race, theres no reason at all to get the TC. if you didnt know, the motor in the TC is EXACTLY the same motor as the base model camry has had for the last 15 or so years, just very slightly updated. in other words, its a boring sedan motor. if you learn more about modifying cars, the K20 is easily able to make more hp than the scion.

www.hondamarketplace.com

dont buy a turbo kit....you're wasting your money, rather, build one yourself and have a lot better stuff, more power and save money...


BTW Honda>Scion

Besides the mentioned facts, 6 speed vsd 5 speed, nore hp ect...and besides the fact the K-series is a more modern motor (new design vs the TC's 2.4 liter longstanding Camry motor), you also forgot the new Civic Si has a Limited Slip Diff.

Also, remember, people have been getting VERY good results out of the K both NA and Boosted in both the RSX and swapped apps. The aftermarket internal parts are plentiful, and with the swappablity of honda's will only get better. People have already proven the honda K series can perform.

I recommend a custom turbo kit, as the others said, unless you NEED a CARB exempt kit. In this case, you'll be restricted in what you can get. I don't like kits, they almost always use a fuel pressure reg. You'll be better off junking the fuel pressure reg and putting in bigger injectors, a bigger fuel pump and tuning it on Hondata. Don't let the numbers fool you, the Si can perform. The Tc has been out longer and might have a higher hp number from turbonetics but don't be fooled, the K series motor can perform. Don't let those numbers you quoted mislead you, I'd get the Si if you're looking to race it. Remember, it comes with an LSD out of the box. That is a big big + in my book. You start trying to lay power down or go fast, an LSD will be your friend.

even though the HP may be a little more you also need to look at curb weights of both vehicles... a car with 200HP that weighs 2400lbs will be quicker than a car with 200HP that weighs 3500lbs...

As i said dont just look at power you have to look at vehicles weight. And as far as tuning goes i think the k-series has far more potential.

K series ownz everything Toyota EXCEPT the 2JZ and the Tercel

The 2JZ will be like the 350 of toyota.

The tercel :screwy:

I like the potential of the AE86 chassis, but i think the best thing that toyota could have done was a corolla SR5/GT-S with a 3SGT-E placed in it.

meh the ae86 chassis is not spectacular. it is however light, rwd, and easy to modify. but the ae86 is VERY hard to make fast. its just not built for it. the only real path you have to go with that car if you want fast is to swap in a supercharged 4agze from a MKI mr2. even high compression 20V blacktop motors with ITBs arent that fast. but looking at weight, the new SI is 2900 lbs. so is the TC. no diff there. the 2jz is not the 350 of toyota. the 2jz is dead, or very close to it. and id say there are quite a few motors that are significantly better than the K series, but for the class of motor, there are only a few.

I never suggested to look at the weight because the weight between the 2 cars, as has since been said, is very similer.

Actually, the Scion tC is heavier by a tiny bit, 2905 lbs to the Civic Si's 2877 lbs.

So you take the slightly lighter curb weight of the Si, plus the fact it comes with higher hp (197 v. 160), Limited slip and a 6 speed, and I'd choose the Si, unless you just can't afford it. Plus, the 197hp is under the new rating system enacted in the last year or two. Under the old rating system, it would be around 210hp. So the tC does have a little more listed torque, 163 v. 139 and it comes at a lower rpm 4200 v 6100. The Si revs higher if that matter, 7800 v 6000. It has a slightly tigher turning radiust too.

In the end, since the curb weight is basically the same, I'd look other things. As has been said, higher hp, 6 speed versus 5 speed, LSD vs. No LSD, the motor has more potential IMO and the K-series has been shown lots of love the last few years from the aftermarket, and I'd choose the Si. That's my opinion. As I said though, the Si does cost more, but if I could swing the extra money I would.:2cents:

Click the links below for more specs and info on the 2 cars...

2006 Honda Civic Si (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/honda/civic/100677616/specs.html)


2006 Scion tC (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/scion/tc/100543677/specs.html)