i have an '84 caprice classic with the 229, 3.8L V6.
the car only has 57,000 miles, and i am positive that it has not rolled over (the odometer that is)

the car is running like shit. there is a knocking sound at idle that sounds like collapsed lifters. the engine knocks and pings constantly, it gets bad gas mileage (15-17) and sucks at accelerating.

heres my question: do i keep the engine and re build it, or find an engine from a truck or big car and rebuild it then drop it in.

if i went the route of getting a different engine, i would be looking for a 305 or 350. i would take all the emissions shit off and put a holly or equivalent carb on. if i kept my current engine, i would do the same thing, but it would save me a lot of money.

the problem is that i am afraid that the engine i have is going to end up being a huge problem (as soon as i fix one thing something else breaks)


how should i find a decent engine to drop in that wont have the same problems as my current engine.

I think dropping a nice V8 in there would be awesome. The thing is, thats probably a lot of work, but i bet it would be worth it in the long run.

If you're gonna go the route of the V8, go with the 305 for fuel economy with a little kick, or get the mileage you getting now with a good amount of power using a 350.

If you live near a Pick'n'Pull, you can get yourself the complete 305 or 350 with wiring harness and all accessories for about $100 + tax/core. This might be a way to go.

is chesterfield auto parts a "pick 'n pull"

is chesterfield auto parts a "pick 'n pull"

Pick'n'Pull is the company name, so I'm afraid not.

Don't forget to get a new transmission with that new engine. What you currently have is likely either a TH-200 or TH-350. Neither of those will have overdrive, and probably don't have a torque converter lockup. If you want to get better highway fuel mileage with a 350 than you are currently getting from teh 229, you'll need to look into a TH700-R4 or TH200-4R. I'd suggest the TH700 if you have a choice.

You can get a rebuildable SBC V-8 for nothing. I usually do. 305s are a dime a dozen. A lot of people with 305s pull them in favor of a 350 or something larger, and seldom know what to do with the removed engine. Then again, $100 for a running engine is not a bad deal either. If you can "rob the cradle" (get the engine, trans, wire harness, ECM, crossmember and mounts) for a few Franklins, that wouldn't be a bad deal. There are a lot of compatible drivelines lying around wrecking yards.

i was thinking i would stick with my th-350 until it dies, then put a different trans in or rebuild it with more clutch packs.

to put in the 700 trans, i believe you need a different driveshaft because the trans is longer.

i believe that i have a locking TC, but i know i dont have OD.
thing is i have heard some very bad things from guys in a trans shop about 700 trans. the th350s, i've heard, will last forever tho.

I've never been a fan of the 3.8 229 cu in. engines in these late '70s early '80s GM vehicles, so I would opt for a V8. All the cars I've owned or that friends have owned with these engines were problematic. I've always pulled them out in favor of a V8.
While Pick N Pull is a name of a certain company, I would check your local phone book under "Used Auto Parts" to see if a similar type salvage yard exists in your area. Some salvage yard owners have adopted the concept of a Pick N Pull type operation, and you can go in and get what you need for a fixed price. We have 2 Pick N Pulls in our area within a 1 to 1 1/2 hour drive and another independant operation like Pick N Pull about 45 minutes away.

I would say go with the biggest engine you can find. With and od transmission, there really will not make a huge difference on gas milage. Your car has low milage, so it is probably worth the swap. I found an 85 wagon with that had just had a 400 dropped in it for dirt cheap. I added an edelbrock intake and q-jet, rebuilt the 700r4 with extra clutches and a shift kit, and added 3inch mandrel bent single exhaust, and it runs great. The 400 is stock internally, but I still knock down 15s at the track. Last week I was on a long trip and averaged 17mpg doing 75mph, and the lockup on my converter isnt even hooked up yet.

If you can do the work your self, it shouldnt cost much. A good engine will be a couple hundred at the most, my tranny rebuild cost 300 in parts, and the exhuast around 500, and that was getting some of the best parts for it.

I would say go for it.

Last week I was on a long trip and averaged 17mpg doing 75mph, and the lockup on my converter isnt even hooked up yet.

Be careful with that - running the 700R4 without lockup in OD is one of the fastest, most surefire ways to kill it!

dont get me wrong now. i HATE the 229 V-6 i currently have. i hate it with a passion. it has been nothing but trouble for the 6K miles i have driven it. BUT... as much as i hate that engine, i hate being broke even more, so i am trying to decide how to maximize my limited funds. in the long run, i think swapping the engine is the right way to go.

are the 305s reliable. with so many people swapping them for 350s, they should be dirt cheap...

i think the 305's are reliable. mine has 20 years and 141,000 miles of hard michigan driving and is begging for more.

Be careful with that - running the 700R4 without lockup in OD is one of the fastest, most surefire ways to kill it!

I thought that was only on the early 700r4's - 1984 and before. They would be done for if the lockup didn't work. On the later transmissions, it's not as big a deal. I know it's not good for them -- no lockup causes a buildup of heat in the torque converter, but it won't kill it right away, and i'm running a big cooler.

I thought that was only on the early 700r4's - 1984 and before. They would be done for if the lockup didn't work. On the later transmissions, it's not as big a deal. I know it's not good for them -- no lockup causes a buildup of heat in the torque converter, but it won't kill it right away, and i'm running a big cooler.

At the least, with gas prices being what they are (even though they are coming down), not using lockup is throwing $$$ in the trash. Whatever the stall speed of your converter is - that's how much higher RPM the engine will run without lockup vs. with, under load.

At the least, with gas prices being what they are (even though they are coming down), not using lockup is throwing $$$ in the trash. Whatever the stall speed of your converter is - that's how much higher RPM the engine will run without lockup vs. with, under load.

I realize that -- it's on the list of things to do. It's the pressure switches in the tranny though, so I have to drop the pan -- just haven't gotten around to it. After that, I'll be back over 20+ mpg, and that's with a 400.

By all means, use a 350 in such a large car. A 305 would get about the same mileage without any of the power. In an '84, there is very little involvement with the computer. For a professional, it's illegal to tamper with it. For a DIY kind, it's okay. But the carb and distributor from a non-computer car will cure all woes...

Be advised, most 229s had TH250 behind them. While it appears the same as TH350, it has a band adjustment "lug" on the outside of the case. Aside from that, it looks just like TH350. Probably not a big deal unless you're after high performance.

Chesterfield Auto Parts? Talk to Jim H. there. He's a good customer of mine, and will make sure to pick you a "cherry". I live in Chesterfield, and my shop is in Burkeville. I can certainly help you sort it all out! Call me or e-mail. Please, don't try the personal message thing. I can't ever see them (some computer glitch thing...)

Jim

www.centralvirginiamachine.com

How about the Goodwrench 350 - very reasonably priced for a completely new engine.

Be advised, most 229s had TH250 behind them. While it appears the same as TH350, it has a band adjustment "lug" on the outside of the case. Aside from that, it looks just like TH350. Probably not a big deal unless you're after high performance.

how can i tell if i have the 250 then.

i took it to a shop and they said it was a 350, but they also said i had OD, and i dont...
is there an obvious way to tell?

How about the Goodwrench 350 - very reasonably priced for a completely new engine.

Hmmm... reasonably priced my *Foot*
sorry, but to me, anything over $500 is not reasonable (especially when the car itself is only worth $900 max)

how can i tell if i have the 250 then.

i took it to a shop and they said it was a 350, but they also said i had OD, and i dont...
is there an obvious way to tell?

On the passenger side of the transmission, above the 1-2 accumulator (that horizontal cylinder thing), there is an intermediate band adjustment. It's near the top and it aims down. There is a locknut on it. The TH350 lacks this feature. The TH250 of those years also has a deeper, notched (or 'shelved') pan, with an "X" for reinforcement stamped onto the bottom of it. The TH350 has the standard depth pan, with no reinforcements stamped into the pan.

Hmmm... reasonably priced my *Foot*
sorry, but to me, anything over $500 is not reasonable (especially when the car itself is only worth $900 max)

Depends upon what you want to do with your car, how much you like it, and how long you intend to keep it. If you're considering a V6-to-V8 swap, then you must be considering wanting to keep the car for a while - in that case, the $900 net worth of the car shouldn't matter. Remember, the appraised monetary value of the car only means something if/when you sell it. Here's another thing to consider: With the current surge in popularity of these cars now (boy do I love being a trailblazer in this area!), their worth is going to go in no direction but up. It may be worth $900 now, but in 5 years it might be worth a couple grand, and those figures are only going to go up.

If you can get the engine/tranny combo for free, I'd say your $500 limit is reasonable. If you have to pay for it, it's out the window. At any rate, do not run a V6 transmission behind a V8 to save money - you'll wind up spending more. That V6 tranny will not live more than a month or two behind a V8 - it just simply does not have the torque capacity. There are less plates in the clutches. Here's why the TH250 is not desirable behind a V8 -

The TH250 has three clutches - forward, direct and reverse. It has a low-reverse roller and an intermediate roller. It also has an intermediate band.

The TH350 has four clutches - forward, intermediate, direct and reverse. It too, has the low-reverse and intermediate rollers, and the intermediate band.

The big difference between the two are how 2nd gear is handled. On the TH350, both an intermediate clutch and intermediate band are used in 2nd, but the intermediate band only performs when the output shaft turns faster than the input (in other words, during engine braking - also called compression braking). The torque of the engine flows through the intermediate clutch, which has 4 or 5 plates. On the TH250, which does not have an intermediate clutch, the engine torque flows through the 1-1/2" thick intermediate band for drive as well as compression braking. This setup is fine for the relatively low torque of an I4 or V6, which it was designed for. It won't, however, handle the torque of a decent V8 (not including the 267 LOL) for very long.

Therefore, if your car has the 250 and you want a V8, you're still doing a tranny swap. If you don't want to shorten the driveshaft, get an overdrive TH2004R. It'll handle a 305 just fine, and give you overdrive as well. It's got a .67 overdrive, meaning your engine will turn 1/3 fewer RPMs on the freeway than with the TH250/350. This translates to much better economy.

I have an '84 with the 305 and 700R4 combo. It is 100% emissions compliant and has plenty of power with 160k miles on it. Look for a scrap wagon or sedan that has relatively low miles.

My TC solenoid has been unplugged for at least the past 50k miles and works great. Most of my driving is on level roads and I do check the tranny fluid regularly. I may have to add a pint here and there, but as long as you keep the fluid up there it should last a while.

Bob