It appears we have some varying opinions on tranny flushes and a should they be done or not and your vote in the poll would be appreciated. You may embellish your answer with a reason why or why not and include any tips for us like having the valve body cleaned and the pan dropped and fliter replaced.

Yes, I believe following the owners manual service schedule for flushing is good.
No, I believe flushes are a bunch of hooie and here's why.

I'll start the ball rolling with a resounding YES :grinyes: in favor of flushes simply because time and heating up and cooling off causes the fluid to lose it's properties.

(If I put this poll in the wrong place please feel free to move it where it should be.)
Thanks.

It appears we have some varying opinions on tranny flushes and a should they be done or not and your vote in the poll would be appreciated. You may embellish your answer with a reason why or why not and include any tips for us like having the valve body cleaned and the pan dropped and fliter replaced.

Yes, I believe following the owners manual service schedule for flushing is good.
No, I believe flushes are a bunch of hooie and here's why.

I'll start the ball rolling with a resounding YES :grinyes: in favor of flushes simply because time and heating up and cooling off causes the fluid to lose it's properties.

(If I put this poll in the wrong place please feel free to move it where it should be.)
Thanks.


Question: Can you define flush? Is it replace all fluid thru any means you deem correct, or is it replace the fluid with a machine pushing the fluid thru the tranny (aka Power Flushing).

I personally subscribe to the "Drop pan, replace filter, replace lost fluid", then sometime during the next interval (about 15000 miles I think), pull out what you can from the pan thru the dipstick and replace it with fresh. (I get about 4 quarts that way.)

At least, that's what I am doing now....

EDIT: Based on what I have read, I will NEVER get one of my tranny's power flushed...really BAD things can happen, or so I have read....
Z.

It appears we have some varying opinions on tranny flushes and a should they be done or not and your vote in the poll would be appreciated. You may embellish your answer with a reason why or why not and include any tips for us like having the valve body cleaned and the pan dropped and fliter replaced.

Yes, I believe following the owners manual service schedule for flushing is good.
No, I believe flushes are a bunch of hooie and here's why.

I'll start the ball rolling with a resounding YES :grinyes: in favor of flushes simply because time and heating up and cooling off causes the fluid to lose it's properties.

(If I put this poll in the wrong place please feel free to move it where it should be.)
Thanks.



Flush or no flush depends a lot on make and model of transmission and mileage.

Flushes have been abused and not done right as like a lot of quick lubes jiffie fushes causing in a lot of transmission damage from a improper flush.

Not even many manf. even recommend a flush.

A new filter and some fresh fluid is the best transmission service.

Here is a canned sermon on flushing
BY MT

To Flush or not To Flush ?
Just like Kenney Rodgers said you have got to know when to fold and when to hold.
If the fluid has high mileage 100K or over or is real dirty you had better hold.
On a trans that has had good regular service at 50K or sooner a flush is good.
But be ware of jiffie/quick/wallmart /fast lubes that offer power and fast flushes.
They have abused and over rated the trans flush.
They have a habit of using one fit all fluid out of the same barrel that fits all.
They just throw in a bottle of additive to make it fit all. Or worse they pitch in a bottle of cleaner or dope in it that can do more harm than good. And will tell you the filter does not need changing with a flush.
Just remember that all new fluid makes a high detergent cleaner that will break loose all varnish and dirt and grit in the trans and drop it in valve body and solenoids.
Always change the filter and go easy on or use no dope and cleaner.
Adjust/check the bands and linkage on the trans that have bands and adjustments.
Always use the trans fluid the trans/manf calls for. And be aware that some manf have changed the type of fluid specs since the trans was manf.
Some fords have changed the specs and a lot of cry/dodge have gone to the newer type of fluid on their trans service.
Also some fords have tsb’s and require a total complete trans flush to cure trans shifting problems. Some as low as 30K
If a person does not have a flush machine a old 5 gallon bucket and a couple of rubber hoses to connect to the cooler lines and with the other end in the bucket will make a good flush machine. Just put the hoses in the bucket and start the engine and start pouring fluid into the trans until the fluid running into the bucket gets good and clean.
It usually takes 16-20 qts. To get a good flush.
Flush or No flush always service the trans filter and trans on a good regular basic.
People that keep the serviced have a lot less trans problems.

Thanks for the reply Zombie. OK, here 'tis. 'Flush' means the same as 'rinse' whereby we flush/rinse it clean. Mr. Webster defines flush as;

A flooding flow or rush, as of water, (in this case ATF.)
The act of cleaning or rinsing by or as if by flushing. I checked the manual for my 'capacities' for my 2003 Vulcan and find the 4F50N tranny holds 12.8L or 13.5 Quarts and the AX4S tranny holds 11.6L or 12.2 Quarts. So, a flush would mean we take out ALL the fluid, (for sake of argument, call it 12 Quarts), and replace it with 12 quarts of new Mercon V.

The method suggested in the prior thread of taking the pressure side line loose and putting the line end in a bucket, crank the engine and let the tranny pump the old fluid out while pouring fresh fluid in the fill tube seems crude at best, but IMO it is feasable. However, Way2Old sez the procedure should be; first, drop and clean the pan and replace the filter with a new one, THEN do the flushing. Why? Because cleaning the pan & new filter would remove accumilated debris, dirt and foreign matter, . . . stuff we wouldn't want to circulate in the tranny with our flush job.

"Change," means we drop the pan and dump the six quarts or so that typically collects in the pan and replace the filter, so we replace approximately half of the total capacity of 12 qts with 6 qts of fresh, new fluid. That's basically what Zombie said below:

"I personally subscribe to the "Drop pan, replace filter, replace lost fluid", then sometime during the next interval (about 15000 miles I think), pull out what you can from the pan thru the dipstick and replace it with fresh. (I get about 4 quarts that way.)" Yup, we're on the same page there. I took 1/4 inch tubing and put down the fill tube and started it siphoning and let it siphon all night and I got a good 5 qts out of mine. That was at 41K mi and we bought it used and the former owner provided a big stack of service records but nothing indicating any tranny service. I noticed a diffecence in how it shifts so smooth and you can hardly feel it change one gear to another, except hard acceleration. If no problems and I keep it then at 60K miles I plan on a flush job done by none other than local Ford dealership. Might cost a few bucks more but I'll pay it.

So, to clarify the terminology; we FLUSH out ALL 12 Qts of the fluid and CHANGE the 6 qts in the pan.

MT-2500. Super reply and thanks much for sharing that good info!

As a person that has spent the majority of their specializing in gearboxes both as an assembler and a designer, I find no fault in hard flushing a transmission. Typically when a transmission is hard flushed and it develops a problems afterwards, it was not a result of flush, the transmission was all damaged.
Also on non-sealed valve bodies you should not flush your transmission but that doesn't matter since a jet nozzle wont fit into ATX/MTX with non-sealed valve bodies and a CVT tranny shouldn't be flushed, they are typically built to drain like an oil pan.


FYI:
You know it really pisses me when a bunch of people with a novice amount of knowledge on a subject merge together to debate what they think it best weather it be mechanical, medical or political/economy related.

You should be allowed to give your opinion and reasons but you should not call others opinion's wrong unless you have a degree in engineering, medicine or law/economics.

"As a person that has spent the majority of their specializing in gearboxes both as an assembler and a designer, I find no fault in hard flushing a transmission." (And etc, etc.) There you go, that's what we're looking for, down in the trenches with hands on experience.

"FYI: You know it really pisses me when a bunch of people with a novice amount of knowledge on a subject merge together to debate what they think it best weather it be mechanical, medical or political/economy related."

About the only avenue us novices have is, he said - she said and without some authoritative guidance all we can do is debate the best we can, you share your ideas, I share mine and we learn together.

"You should be allowed to give your opinion and reasons but you should not call others opinion's wrong unless you have a degree in engineering, medicine or law/economics."

Agreed. Opinions are like noses, <Grin>, everybody has one and they are entitled to it. My field of expertise is pesticides and we go there and I can tell you if you're right or wrong. Yup, unless someone has vast experience and training in a particular field and can speak with a voice of authority, then saying someone is wrong amounts to trolling a forum, and we all know what trolls are.

Okey Dokey, we makin' progress and we're all learning together.
Next participant, . . . batter up! Like Colonel Potter use to say in "MASH," . . . . "belly up to the bar Hawk Eye . . . ."

That is the purpose of these forums. To allow each member his input to the posed question. I don't feel that there should be anyone here that is degraded for their answers on anything posted, as long as it pertains to the subject. We do not use a flush machine in our shop because of the frequency the Police tear out transmissions. If we get 50k from a trans, it is deemed a miracle. So I guess you could say, since we rebuild under 50k, we do a complete flush on every one we have. Keep the comments coming and please respect the other posters opinion, even though they may be different from yours. Thamks. way2old

Do not flush,all I hear are horror stories.I have replaced one transmission because it was flushed,acted up after being flushed.My father knows someone that has his own transmission shop that does valve body cleanings,someone had their transmission flushed.The lines are above the filter and valve body and where does the dirt,crud go?The dirt and the crud also called "Kooties" get pushed back into the valve body and the valves inside the valve body stick.If you want a REAL flush not using the machine and does a better job than the machine,remove the bottom line from the radatior and point it to a pan.Start pouring fluid in while the vehicle is running and make sure not to run the transmission dry.Stop when the fluid is clear,put the line back on and check the transmission fluid level.

"That is the purpose of these forums. To allow each member his input to the posed question. I don't feel that there should be anyone here that is degraded for their answers on anything posted, as long as it pertains to the subject."

Roger all that! I once told an old gentlemen I wanted to ask a question but was afraid he would it think it was dumb. He smiled and replied, "the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask and it went unanswered so you remained ignorant." Intimidation is a terrible thing and it's the best way to cause someone to go elsewhere for answers. No doubt about it, this is a superb forum for learning and we have some of the best technicians you could ask for right here ready and willing to help.

Turning out to be a good thread and poll and we're on a roll here, so please keep the votes coming in! PLAY BALL!

"The lines are above the filter and valve body and where does the dirt,crud go?" Hmmm . . . Interesting observation wafredrick and thanks for the input.

Do not flush,all I hear are horror stories.I have replaced one transmission because it was flushed,acted up after being flushed.My father knows someone that has his own transmission shop that does valve body cleanings,someone had their transmission flushed.The lines are above the filter and valve body and where does the dirt,crud go?The dirt and the crud also called "Kooties" get pushed back into the valve body and the valves inside the valve body stick.If you want a REAL flush not using the machine and does a better job than the machine,remove the bottom line from the radatior and point it to a pan.Start pouring fluid in while the vehicle is running and make sure not to run the transmission dry.Stop when the fluid is clear,put the line back on and check the transmission fluid level.

The method you are describing is the similar to the one suggested in the Ford Service manual for the 97 taurus / sable. I was thinking of going that way, but was advised against it. Still not sure why.

Do not flush,all I hear are horror stories.I have replaced one transmission because it was flushed,acted up after being flushed.My father knows someone that has his own transmission shop that does valve body cleanings,someone had their transmission flushed.The lines are above the filter and valve body and where does the dirt,crud go?The dirt and the crud also called "Kooties" get pushed back into the valve body and the valves inside the valve body stick.If you want a REAL flush not using the machine and does a better job than the machine,remove the bottom line from the radatior and point it to a pan.Start pouring fluid in while the vehicle is running and make sure not to run the transmission dry.Stop when the fluid is clear,put the line back on and check the transmission fluid level.
The Pan and Filter are suppose to be removed during a flush.

If the transmission has had regular flushes(During each fluid change), I say do it. But other than that, I think there's too much chance of crud dis-lodging and winding up stuck in the valve body..

If my numbers are correct, thus far we have 3 NO, 2 YES, 1 Bucket Flush and 2 in between depending on prior tranny maintenace. Have some very good comments and food for thought on the board and I believe bronekantimatter summed it all up with; "The Pan and Filter are suppose to be removed during a flush." IMO, bucket flush would be good provided we complied with removing the pan and filter because that is where all the crud collects. After all, that's what the filter is there for. Then to, it gives us the oppurtunity to look and see what has collected there and if we find bits and pieces of unknown material then we collect it and take it to the Ford place or a tranny shop and find out what the bits and pieces are.

However, there are a lot of bolts around the pan and I doubt many DIY mechanics would tackle the job removing the pan. MT-2500 tells us using the bucket flush, "It usually takes 16-20 qts. To get a good flush." Advance Auto sells their brand of MerconV for $3.00 so that would be $60. bucks for tranny fluid plus the cost of a new filter and pan gasket, and don't forget your time and labor. Lets say fluid and parts $70. to bucket flush. I had a Chevy Venture van tranny fluid 'change' at the Chevy dealer and it cost $60. and an hour of my time while I read a magazine and didn't get my hands dirty. They told me a 'flush' was $130.

I just called the Ford dealer and a FLUSH is $100. but they do not drop the pan nor replace the filter. I asked how many come backs they had and the service writer said none he can recall. I know him and he has worked there a looong time. I asked about a 'change' and he said the flush is so cheap they don't do changes because it only gets out 5 qts of fluid and the flush gets out all 15 quarts. I saw no need to get into a debate over pan dropping so I said thank you, have a nice day and hung up.

My vote: I'm to old to lay on my back dropping the pan then bucket flushing so I'll opt for the $100. flush and hope for the best. Only other recourse would be take it to a trany shop and have a $60. 'change' where they drop the pan and clean the filter, THEN take it to the Ford place for a flush. Total cost thee would be $160. which is steep. OH! Ford place said the filter runs about $40. so that's what they don't replace them.

Anyway, please keep the votes and comments coming and have a wonderful week end and drive safe!

A man named Paul Nimz over at Taurus club posted this method and it has worked very well for me. All of the fluid gets replaced as well as the pan cleaned and a new filter. Anyone that has experience with a Ford Taurus knows the weakness of this car is the tranmission.

Anyway I have no intention of arguing the whether this is right or wrong.
I have three taurus in my driveway and this is how I do maintenance on all of them.

Mike
:smokin:


Here's the easiest and cleanest way to change the ALL the fluid and filter.

You may still spill some fluid when dropping the pan. Best just spread out the oil dry before starting.
Jack up the car and place on jack stands.
Next disconnect the line on the drivers side of the aux ATX cooler. Put the tranny side line in a five gallon bucket. Attach a piece of 3/8" hose to the cooler where you just disconnected the line and place it on the bucket.
Start the engine and wait until the fluid almost stops. There will be a definite difference in the amount flowing out.
Stop the engine.
Start loosening the bolts on the pan. There is still 3-4 quarts in the pan. Position a drain pan under the tranny pan and on the drivers side. Loosen and remove all the bolts but two on the passenger side. This will let the drivers side tip down as you then slowly loosen the remaining two. After the pan is mostly down and the fluid is in the drain pan remove the pan completely and replace the filter. Be sure to remove the rubber ring that will stick up in the tranny filter mount. Just bend it in with a screwdriver and pull it out with a needle nose. Do not scratch the aluminum tranny filter holding housing.
Reusing the OEM gasket and in a three pass sequence progressively tighten every other bolt until all are tightened. Do not over tighten as they really just need to be snug. Use a 1/4" ratchet drive socket.
Then add 10 quarts. Start the motor and wait until it almost stops pumping fluid out or until you see new fluid coming out. Better to waste a quart or two of new fluid to insure all the old stuff is out.
When the flow has almost stopped, shut off the engine and reconnect the hoses.
Add 5 quarts, idle motor and check level keeping it on the low side on the dipstick.
Then drive the car for a while to heat up the tranny fluid and recheck and top off the fluid.

The pan gasket is reusable if it is the OEM rubber one. Total system capacity is around 14-15 quarts. Buy a couple of extra quarts to get all the old stuff out.