Tranny/Torque converter ??'s

Having what seems to be a pretty common problem.
2001 Grand Am GT auto.
Fresh tranny fluid.

1-2 shift....sloppy. VERY sloppy. Seems to shift fine under light load, but if you are on it, it takes 4, 5, 6 seconds to make the shift. 2-3 feels fine under WOT.

Another issue that creates another question.
Heading uphill in 4th (OD) gear. Car needs a little more RPM to stay at speed, but it doesn't need to shift into 3rd gear.
Under those conditions I will start to get a surge. Now...this isn't throttle surge, it feels more like the TC being confused. It wants to lock or unlock (I can't recall which one) but can't seem to figure it out. I have recently noticed this even when trying to get the car to downshift. Seems to take more throttle than it should. But once it downshifts, it does it just fine.

So....
1. Is the torque converter a removeable part?
2. Can it be replaced without replacing the tranny?
3. Is the tranny computer controlled by RPM/TPS or is it controlled by vacuum?

4. Ideas??

1&2 yes when you remove the 4t45e trany :(

Many sensors control the trans, the shifts are controled by the PCM.

Have you ever taken it in to see if thiers any trans codes stored. They usually dont trip any lights.

But that surging sounds like a pump issue.
I dont do a whole lot on these buggers, drop'm now and again.
Hav a 4t45 that I "started" taking apart about 3months ago :lol: Its just been coverd with a towel for now, letting it rest :D

Take it for codes. AutoZone or does the dealer need to pull those??
Does this sound more like an issue with the tranny or the TC???

I think autozone can pull trans codes, but I'd call first just to make sure. Does that trans use a filter and if so, was that changed too? I've never owned a car with an auto trans, never had to deal with this stuff.

I dont think the Zone can do trans codes or abs.

By TC you mean torqueconverter, it could or could not, its really hard for me to say without driving/testing it. Since you change the fluid as frequent as you do, I'd say NO.

Heres something I found, kinda sound simular to your issues Mr Luos. But this one would hav the SES light illuminated. Though it does refer to line pressure issue, and thats what your simptoms point to. this is a 2003 bulliton.

#03-07-30-021 Neutral Flare and/or RPM Flare While In Drive, No 1-2 Upshift, SES

Neutral Flare and/or RPM Flare While In Drive, No 1-2 Upshift, Service Engine Soon (SES) Light Illuminated, Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P1810, P1815 Set (Replace TFP Manual Valve Position Switch) #03-07-30-021 - (05/15/2003)
Neutral Flare and/or RPM Flare While In Drive, No 1-2 Upshift, Service Engine Soon (SES) Light Illuminated, Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P1810, DTC P1815 Set (Replace Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) Manual Valve Position Switch)

1995-2003 Chevrolet Cavalier
1997-2003 Chevrolet Malibu
1999-2003 Oldsmobile Alero
1995-2003 Pontiac Sunfire
1998-2003 Pontiac Grand Am
with 4T40E Transmission (RPO MN4) or 4T45E Transmission (RPO MN5)
Condition
Some customers may comment on a neutral flare and/or RPM increase while in drive or no 1-2 upshift and/or the Service Engine Soon (SES) telltale may be illuminated. On 1995-2002 model vehicles, the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) may set a DTC P1810 while on 2003 model vehicles, the PCM may set a DTC P1815.

Cause
The cause may be the transmission fluid pressure (TFP) switch (also known as the pressure switch manifold (PSM)). It will be referred to as the TFP switch in this bulletin.

Correction
Follow the diagnosis and service procedure below to correct this condition.

Perform the following diagnostics to correctly repair this condition
For diagnosis of DTC P1810, refer to DTC P1810 (SI Document ID #854362).
For diagnosis of DTC P1815, refer to DTC P1815 (SI Document ID #854374).

Important
Before installing the new TFP switch, inspect the date code stamped in the switch. The date code MUST BE 2308 or higher. Refer to the illustration above.


Replace the TFP switch. Refer to Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) Manual Valve Position Switch Replacement (SI Document ID #803989).
Clear the code and road test the vehicle.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

24226580
Switch, Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) 1

My GT had a surge when I bought it, especially up big hills and felt like it would loose power, and surge.

I used some Lucas Oil transmision stuff, ran the crap out of it. But while doggin it, I manually shifted up and down. When I got the surge up hill, droped into 2nd and surged the throtle real fast timing it to the trans surge.
Then I changed the fluid & filter after about 100mls.
Seems fine, never had any codes, just been babied to Long :lol:
Yes I am rough on my vehicles :D
Can I drive your TA now Mr Luos ??

Sure.
But you have to come out here. :lol:


Manually shifted it today from 1 to 2.
No slip.
Figures.

I will look into that switch. I get no noise from the tranny, no chips, and every other shift feels fine, so that might make sense.
Thanks!!

No prob Mr Luos.

If I'm ever out your way,
I'll look ya up for that drive :D :lol:

this is a great post, i like the info that you provided XI. Some of this may help explain my tranny whoa's that i have dealt with for the past 3+ years.

I would say my symptoms are the same as Mr Lous but, mine will shift into neutral between shift 1 and 2 at a lower speed range then slip into 2nd or sometimes it will slam into gear.( ex: your going 40 mph, slow down to 20 mph, then go to accelerate you'll get the shift lag) I can also sometimes hear and feel it come out of gear at a stop, with either a crack or pop noise, then the car will jerk. At WOT the car basically revs then slams into gear, i can't do manual shifting cause then the car is worse in regular drive mode. No codes were ever found in the system, and so far no one can find, feel or figure out what's wrong. Do you think I'm looking at the same problem? Any suggestions?

Honestly I Dont know grfnkl.

Though my SE has simular simptoms at times.
When I'm taking off hard then let off before 1st winds out, it'll slip(like in N)but then catch and "slam" into gear.

Or it'll just slip like your riding the clutch out till it grabs.
And it used to act realy flakie after running the DS out of it, or manualy shifting.

I know it improved greatly just with the trany cooler.
Since I've been on top of the F&Filter change,
and switched to Synthetic its been running realy well. (knock-on-wood)!

So grfnkl, when was your last Fluid & filter change?
It sounds like your trouble might be the same as Mr Luos's.
And that your clutches between 1 & 2 are probly stuck together.

I'm real hard on mine.
I manually up shift & down shift all the time. :shakehead
Drop it into 2 @ 50mph to slow down :nono:


I am really :disappoin in the 4t45s ,
they should hav kept the 4t60s in the GA. :shakehead

at least then you can check you fluid level :P

Mine doesn't go into neutral for the 1-2 shift....it just seems like it can't decide if it wants to actually shift or not. RPM's hang near redline for a second, then slowly find their way to where they should be in 2nd.
Sucks...

Any idea where the switch is on the car/tranny??

Not exactly sure Mr Luos,
but its inside the trany on the drivers side,
probly between #1 and #18 (in red circles) in this pic of the first exploded veiw..

......... well photodump's taking a dump ! :angryfire:
I'll post those two pics in a while !! :thumbsup:

This is why I stick to manual transmissions. I was looking at the 99-up gt's, didn't buy one becasue I couldn't get a manual transmission. Good luck with it Luos, when you find the problem let us know.

I am going to go ahead and try that switch.
My girl works for a GM dealership, so the part won't be too expensive.

It all depends on how hard it is to access.

The TFP switch is a PITA to replace. Same as doing a PCS solenoid. It is located on the valve body which is under the tranny side cover assembly.

Here is a general procedure applicable to any GM car with the 4T45E and/or 4T65E autotransaxles. This is just to get the side cover off.


Disconnect the battery ground (negative) cable. Refer to Battery Negative Cable Disconnect/Connect Procedure in Starting and Charging.
Remove the throttle body air inlet duct. Refer to Air Cleaner Intake Duct Replacement in Powertrain Management.
Install the engine support fixture. Refer to Engine Support Fixture.
Remove the engine mount strut. Refer to Engine Mount Strut Replacement in Engine.
Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Vehicle Lifting.
Remove the left front wheel. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the left engine splash shield. Refer to Splash Shield Replacement - Engine in Body and Frame.
Remove the stabilizer shaft links from the lower control arms. Refer to Stabilizer Shaft Link Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the left tie rod end from the steering knuckle. Refer to Steering Knuckle Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the wheel speed sensor harness connector. Refer Wheel Speed Sensor Jumper Harness Replacement (Front) in Brakes and Traction Control.
Remove the left lower ball joint from the left steering knuckle. Refer to Steering Knuckle Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Disconnect the left drive axle from the transaxle. Refer to Wheel Drive Shafts Replacement (Left) or Wheel Drive Shafts Replacement (Right).
Secure the drive axle to the steering knuckle/strut. Caution: Failure to disconnect the intermediate shaft from the rack and pinion stub shaft can result in damage to the steering gear and/or damage to the intermediate shaft. This damage may cause loss of steering control which could result in personal injury.
Remove the pinch bolt at the intermediate steering shaft. Refer to intermediate Steering Shaft Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the intermediate shaft from the steering gear. Refer to Intermediate Steering Shaft Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Disconnect the three-way catalytic converter pipe to the right (rear) exhaust manifold. Refer to Catalytic Converter Replacement in Powertrain Management.
Support the right side of the frame with jackstands.
Support the left side of the frame with jackstands.
Remove the transaxle mount bracket. Refer to Automatic Transmission Mount Bracket Replacement.
Remove the transaxle mount. Refer to Automatic Transmission Mount Replacement.
Loosen the engine mount lower nuts. Refer to Engine Mount Replacement (Front) and Engine Mount Replacement (Rear) in Engine.
Loosen the right side frame to body bolts. Refer to Frame Repair in Frame and Underbody.
Remove the left side frame to body bolts. Refer to Frame Repair in Frame and Underbody.
Adjust the jackstand to the lower left side of the frame.
Position the drain pan under the transaxle.
Remove the wiring harness connector.
Remove the case side cover bolts..

Ya Bob thats about all of it :lol:

I hav PICS now ! :D

Heres an exploded view.
Exploded (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/SeCond%20Hand/transparts2.jpg)

Heres a close up of the valve body..
VB & Solenoids (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/SeCond%20Hand/TSB010t2.gif)

Hope that helps giv you an idea of where the switch is.

It can be done DIY.
You put that motor in your TA,
and thiers not that much to do if you hav the proper equipment.

Good Luck

Yikes.

I don't mind working on the Trans Am...but having to do something like this just bugs me. :lol:
Might talk to the dealership about the service bulletin.

Yikes.

I don't mind working on the Trans Am...but having to do something like this just bugs me.
Might talk to the dealership about the service bulletin.

Its a good 8hr job, which it doesnt take that much more time to just remove the whole trany and engine.

Definitely do some "social engineering" at the Stealership before you just go and do a taredown :thumbsup:

I did a PCS solenoid replacement DIY and added a Trans Go valve body kit in my GTP about 3 years ago and I still get nightmares about it. :crying:

Personally, I would not touch the tranny unless a scan with a trans capable scanner or GM Tech II machine shows any stored DTC error codes consistent with replacing any internal components.

The $500-$600 to pay a good tranny shop to do the work is probably worth it as long as they don't talk you into a rebuild which can be expensive.

I did a PCS solenoid replacement DIY and added a Trans Go valve body kit in my GTP about 3 years ago and I still get nightmares about it.

Personally, I would not touch the tranny unless a scan with a trans capable scanner or GM Tech II machine shows any stored DTC error codes consistent with replacing any internal components.

The $500-$600 to pay a good tranny shop to do the work is probably worth it as long as they don't talk you into a rebuild which can be expensive.


:iagree:

Could be many things MAF TPS PCS can all cause sluggish/long shifts. 4T40e's have pump bearing issues this causes a lockup hunt or is severe cases no lockup all. I would get it scanned before you throw parts at it.

all i can say is that, no matter who i've brought my car too, or how many times they've scanned it and checked it, it still continues. On Top of that it's been doing this for four years now, and amazingly the car still goes!:uhoh: The last time I had the fluid changed though was about a year ago maybe pushing two now, I know i'm due for it again , but it doesn't make a difference in the way the tranny acts. So for the moment I've given up on worrying about it, until the car craps out on me.... or with my luck as some of you know, maybe someone will total it :cwm27: .

So for the moment I've given up on worrying about it, until the car craps out on me.... or with my luck as some of you know, maybe someone will total it .



Hey Paul, what a positive attitude :rofl:

LOL,:grinyes: That's about as positive you are gonna get from me on a Monday at work while it's pouring rain outside...

What, you hav the "mondays" :lol:
They tend to be hecktic.

Its been raining more on then off for the last three days here also :shakehead
Wouldnt be bad if it made it cooler, its only getting more humid :rolleyes:

Could be many things MAF TPS PCS can all cause sluggish/long shifts. 4T40e's have pump bearing issues this causes a lockup hunt or is severe cases no lockup all. I would get it scanned before you throw parts at it.
Please explain how the MAF would cause a sluggish shift.

I can see a faulty computer...but that should throw a code of some sort. Might not be the right code...but it should show something.

I could see the TPS causing problems. But not with shifting. Unless the tranny uses that signal to shift. Again...you should see a Service Engine Soon light.

Scan....coming soon. But I am almost willing to bet it shows nothing.

the computer uses MAF/TPS of those to determine engine load. The computer then uses those inputs to determine shift time and if need be increase line pressure to help stop any slip. GM has a TSB about using oiled air filters and messing up the MAF causing erratic shift or even failure if driven to long

Ya troy1,
I bet GM has 1000's TSB's on Grand Ams ,
and thier funky ways :lol:

:shakehead ..... I'm beginning to see why they discontinued this car..... :rolleyes:

In case you guys did not know Troy is a Professional GM Tranny Tech and knows his stuff. I'd take my tranny problems to him any day but too bad he's out in the middle of nowheres. :lol:

Yes Bob, Troy knows his stuff.

I've read several posts of his "hitting the nail on the head" so to speak :D

WOW! he does live out in the middle of no where :lol:

the computer uses MAF/TPS of those to determine engine load. The computer then uses those inputs to determine shift time and if need be increase line pressure to help stop any slip. GM has a TSB about using oiled air filters and messing up the MAF causing erratic shift or even failure if driven to long
Thank you.
Sometimes I regret buying an automatic. At least with a manual it is much easier to tell the problem apart from others.

Car runs great....I can't imagine it being the MAF. But I can always clean it and see if that helps.
I will try it.

If only the Trans Am got slightly better gas mileage...I would just daily drive that. :lol: