Hi all,

We just bought this park avenue a few weeks ago to replace one that was rear ended. Superb condition and has given no problems until today. Parked in the driveway and a little while later tried to start it and nothing! All lights come on, power everything is working, but nothing coming from the starter. The usual clicking from various engine components, but not the starter.

I feel like it is probably a security thing as there was no indication of anything failing. Could this be a problem with the ignition key? How can I tell? We only received one key when we bought it.

Tim

Welcome to AF!
Does the security light come on and stay on? Do you here any “clicking noise” from the starter? If it is a security problem, try to start it again after ten minutes. If it starts, then yes, it is security related and you need to have the key checked for proper resistance.:grinyes: Also, check the battery for full voltage and the alternator for proper output.

Welcome to AF!
Does the security light come on and stay on? Do you here any “clicking noise” from the starter? If it is a security problem, try to start it again after ten minutes. If it starts, then yes, it is security related and you need to have the key checked for proper resistance.:grinyes: Also, check the battery for full voltage and the alternator for proper output.

Thanks for the reply, I have been out there checking on some things. Security light is blinking. Battery is full voltage, however there is no drop when trying to start the engine. I say no drop, but there is a slight movement of the voltmeter needle. Not enough for the starter to be pulling any current. I have 12 volts on the big wire at the starter, but I could not find any on the purple wire. There is no noise from the starter at all. I don't think the alternator is a problem as the battery is fully charged. I guess the question now is what keeps voltage from being applied to the solenoid? Keeping in mind that there was nothing noticeably wrong witht he car before this happened.

Tim

Ok, it sounds like you have either a failure of the key recognition circuit, VATS control module, or the starter enable relay. When you turn on the key, do you here the fuel pump run for a few seconds? Here is how the security system works: VATS systems motorage PDF (http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf)
You might want to try the bypass here: GM Vats System Bypass (http://www.12vp.com/info_resistors.htm)

Thanks again. Yes, the fuel pump runs. I will check out the two links. Hopefully the answer will lie in one of them.

Tim

If the fuel injectors are plusing, that is an indication that it is not a security problem. The VATS system shuts down both the fuel injectors and starter enable relay. When you said that you did not have power to the purple wire at the starter solenoid, was that with the ignition switch in the run or start position? See if you can jump the main power supply to the starter and the purple wire at the solenoid.

I had already checked for 12 volts on the purple wire with the key in run and in start. 0 volts. I tried jumping from the positive terminal to the solenoid with the key in run. The wire sparked when making a connection, but nothing happened. I am kinda over my head when it comes to the newer cars and all their electronic "features". The old days you just bang on the solenoid and it started. :)

:banghead:
Just for the heck of it, disconnect both battery cables to check the condition of the terminals and contact surfaces. Clean everything and tighten well, then try to start.

The fact that your security light is flashing is an indication that the TDM has recognized the key and should enable the fuel injectors and starter circuit. It is strange that you do not get power to the solenoid purple wire.

I am not sure if your car is Passkey 1 or Passkey 11. On VATS and
Passkey I, the TDM is buried deep in the dashboard. On Passkey II, the TDM is in the Body Control Module (BCM). You might try the reprogramming procedure (from the link above) just to verify that the security system is not the problem.

This is a 30-minute programming procedure that does not require a scan tool.
1.Turn the ignition switch to START, then release it to the ON position (the engine will not start).
2. The “Security” light should be ON. After 10 minutes, it should turn OFF.
3.Turn the ignition switch OFF and after five seconds, repeat steps 1 and 2.
When this procedure has been done three times, turn the ignition switch OFF.
The control units will exchange the correct commands during the next start-up attempt. If programming is not completed correctly, either there will be no theft protection or the system will lock in antitheft mode and the engine won’t start.
Try the programming procedure again. Note that this will not reprogram key recognition, only the information transmitted on the Class 2 data link.

I really appreciate all the help. I finally had it towed to a local mechanic that worked for a GM dealer. He jumped the solenoid and the car will run about 10 seconds then shut down. He found the wires under the dashboard to the security system have all been cut and taped back together. He said it looked like a "buy here pay here" box was installed at one time. Not really sure what that is...

Anyway, he said the disable mechanism is buried deep in the dash so I guess I have passkey 1. I now have it at the local dealership waiting on their evaluation and terribly outrageous bill. For all interested readers I will post the final solution when I have it.

Tim

Drove my car home today. Dealer replaced the ignition cylinder and ignition key. My understanding is the 'cylinder' is what reads the information from the key and either allows starting or locks out the system.

Glad to here you got it back on the road! You had a failure of the key recognition circuit (resistor reader), so therefore you could have used a resistor of the correct value, to bypass the system. How much did the dealer charge for this work?

One piece of information that is still not clear; you said that the security light was blinking. Was that true immediately after you’re failed to start attempts, or did it show a continuous security light for the nest ten minutes after trying to start?:screwy:

Yep. pranks, you are right. I just worked on a '97 today with the same problem. Charged the person $20 to bypass the PK system. That way, it'll never do it again.