turbo project - diesel escort

my names Brandon,

i have a 87 escort lx 4 door
it has a original 2.0 diesel motor, 5 sp
and a gt body kit.

well i use to drive this thing for gas milage ( about 50 mpg) but it became a lawn orniment latly, i started to tear the car apart and turn it into a fun car.
sheet metal floors, removed the ac, and added a bar-b -que / homemade propane injection kit.
well i brought it to my high school nationals, for a kick, turn out it brought the biggest croud in, althouth it ran 23 sec 1/4
well i looking at bringing it this year ( late oct. 2006) and would like to TURBO it and surprise ppl.

i think this car has alot more in it. the diesel gives it GREAT torque but the top it is sad and it revs to albout 4500 rpms.


i came here looking for help as to wear to start in this project, and i started to read and found info on different ways to do a turbo, first my ideal was to weld a custom manifold but due to room and time im thinking about running a remotre turbo off about 3 feet of exhaust pipe from the header into the passager seat area. would this make a great boost lag? also would it be worth it to a diesel considering the boost wouldnt probaly hit till 3k rpms and ill red like at 4.5k rpms


well this is long already so ill stop here for now.

thanks in advice for any help

Brandon

Is this a UK spec car?
Because there was a turbo version of the desiel made.
I would forget about building custom stuff, when a factory turbo engine is already avlaible.
All you have to do then is source a bigger turbo, give it more boost, and provide more fuel. (I think a desiel just needs the more fuel to wind up more boost, as there is no throttle, as long as the engine can flow the air, the turbo will spin and make the boost).

DON'T GO REMOTE TURBO. do whatever you can to keep it right after the header. specially in a diesel where cold air isn't nearly as important and can actually help performance if you can keep your egt's (exhaust gas temps) low enough.

so, I'd get a turbocharger that could get you to 15-20psi (since this is a fun car and not a daily driver you don't need to keep it reliable) and that should run ok with your high compression. you're going to need to get alot more fuel into the engine. stock it probably runs extremely lean so you could run a crap load more fuel with boost.

I'm sure someone could help you with what turbocharger to buy, I'm not really the guy to ask about that. one thing you need to do is get a pyrometer to measure egt's. this is crucial to keep your engine running. if it gets too hot, get off the gas immediately, it'll burn up your turbo and valves. another thing i'd do is run straight pipes after your turbo, you don't need mufflers or any of the emissions crap that might be on there, it'll just lag up your turbo and rob power.

Are you in the US? Your language and avatar suggest so. Which is a shame as that's probably the hardest place in the world to pick up a turbo for a small diesel engine.

According to Turbomaster, you'd be looking for a TB02 garret or a 1749v (variable vane) if you want a much much wider boost range.

Of course finding a suitable turbo won't be easy, most petrol engine turbos will have exhaust housings that are way too large for your engine. Maybe the propane and lots of fuel will make up for that.

http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/applications/passenger_cars_model.php?fabricante=FORD&logo=ford

For reference I have a T2 off a 2.0 diesel Nissan Serena van kicking around.
Here're the specs.

Journal Bearing T2
Compressor A/R 0.48 48mm/34mm wheel, trim 50
Turbine A/R 0.35 42mm/35mm wheel, trim 69
144111-3C600
46694311a

It is a states car. the oversea version came with a 1.8 diesel and turbo diesel.

this will be a fun car and ran only at a drag strip once.. and i dont realy care if it blows its first time out, although i would like to get at least a half a track of it pulling hard.
Im looking for the balance between the easyiest/cheapest/pure performance way to get this car into the 16's? lol (hay that would be almost cutting the et in half!) Reliability means nothin to me on this build.
I guess my main questions are do u think the 1.8 td manifold would fit on the the us 2.0 version, i also know this motor is a mazda diesel and i think mazda puts a 2.0 diesel into one of there cars.. will its manifold fit?>
and of corse what junkyard/ebay turbo should i look for max performance, remeber a quick spool on this car is probaly more important then air flow since it revs out at 4.5k rpm

also dose anyone know how to increase the fuel in these engines? cus i do understand to a diesel fuel is power!.

thanks.

I guess my main questions are do u think the 1.8 td manifold would fit on the the us 2.0 version, i also know this motor is a mazda diesel and i think mazda puts a 2.0 diesel into one of there cars.. will its manifold fit?>




Ah haaaa!
The UK spec car is actualy a little differnt, while its based on the same chassis, and I think uses the same look body, it actualy uses a European designed engine. Its quite differnt to the Mazda engine. So no, the UK spec turbo engine will not fit, nor will any of the parts.

However!
There is, in that generation of car, a Mazda 626 Station Wagon with a 2L Supercharged Desiel. They use a pressure wave supercharger, not totaly sure how it works, but I believe its a routes type, with the out put side exposed directly to the inlet ports on the head.
However, I know its a very unreliable enigne, made in small numbers, and it takes up a lot of space in the 626 engine bay (626=telstar=contour in the stats I think), more space than I think you have in the 323 based Escort.

However, again, I wonder if the exhaust manifold and turbo of an 1800 Familia GTR or DOHC Turbo would fit?
Might be worth doing some realy diggy to check if they line up.

well i the 626 came in a 2.0 diesel and 2.2 gas ( which is the same as the probe) i believe. i know the 2.2 wont fit,

what i did look into once was a ford tranist 2.0 turbo diesel manifold, but there impossible to find info on. they also have a new 2.4 version, those i can find. but i have no clue if it will fit. i believe there powerstroke enigines.

All this leads me back to a remote setup. it would be easier to run, when it comes to working on cars ive done pretty much from swaps to transmissions ...ect but fabbing while im ok at i dont have the tools to do it. just a cheap welder as of now. so simplisity is key! so back with the remote ideal do you guys realy think running about 3-4 ft of exhaust pipe into the passager side of the car would create a great lag? what if i use a smaller exhaust pipe and a fast spooling turbo with a big air side? i mean i can launch in the boost and power shift to keep rvs around 2.5+ just an ideal.

also i have a front mount intercooler do u think it would help or make lag worse? bov? i heard there pointless in diesel but i still love the sound.

let me know if u guys want to see pictures of anything for reference or viewing pleasure.

thanks for the help,
brandon

the intercooler will make lag worse, you've got to pressurize that whole area which is alot more than piping. and a bov is absolutely useless on a diesel, it'll be a waste of money and won't get you ANY performance gains.

yeah its just i already have both of them, lol kpshhhhhh <---love the sound

anyone have experience with remote mount turbos? i would like so input of the lag issues.

yeah its just i already have both of them, lol kpshhhhhh <---love the sound

anyone have experience with remote mount turbos? i would like so input of the lag issues.

You don't want to remote mount a turbo.
For a start the exhaust will cool and contract on the way there, giving you a slower flow which won't spin the turbine well.
You'll have lost any pulse charging effect, which again will increase lag.
Then you've got the time for the engine to fill and pressurise the pipework.

Worst case is you run out of revs and have to change gear before the turbo has spooled.:grinno:

Using a smaller exhaust turbine or housing to compensate won't help. It'll just provide much higher exhaust backpressure which will sap more power (exhaust brake anyone?).

lot of bad talking about remote turbo's. Yes they will be less effective than mounting it close to the exhaust ports....but it will still work. Not quite as effectively, slightly slower spool (depending on how you design it) but it will still work just fine.

It would definitely outperform the NA design, no matter how badly messed it up :icon16:

Fueling might be a bigger issue though....we're not talking about an electronically controlled fueling system, are we?

no i believe its a manualy controled fuel system although i have no ideal how to up the fuel,

bottom line about the remote turbo i agree with u guys about there performance, although in this case i still like the ideal of the ease of install and since i only have a month to do so and work 50 hrs a week im leaning that way unless i can find a manifold made..

If you didn't have a time limit then i would suggest having ago at building your own manifold, then if it dosn't work mount it remotly.
But, since you do have a time limit, and as you have stated this dosn't exactly have to be a practicle car, its designed as much for spectacle as it is for function, then just go remote mount it. :D

just take off the stock manifold and weld a turbo flange to it. Done.

Nothing difficult at all....assuming you have the room, of course. Even if you don't, you can run a pipe from the manifold flange to anywhere you desire....in the engine compartment or outside of it.

Any hack with a cheesy 110V MIG welder could do this. Doesn't require any high level of fabbing. All it has to be, is high enough to allow gravity drain for the turbo, and strong enough to support its weight.

no i believe its a manualy controled fuel system although i have no ideal how to up the fuel,

bottom line about the remote turbo i agree with u guys about there performance, although in this case i still like the ideal of the ease of install and since i only have a month to do so and work 50 hrs a week im leaning that way unless i can find a manifold made..

A supercharger would be a nice solution to this problem.

Does it have a distributor style fuel pump or an inline one? (I'm talking about how the injector lines leave the pump).

ive been looking up what makes the fuel system a distribuated system, and the most i can learn is that where the lines come out of the pump is around it so each line gets its fuel with the right cylinder needs it.

from what i can tell it looks like a distribuated system considering one side of the fuel pump is powered by a belt to the cam and the other side has the 4 fuel lines placed around the center of the lid.

any way to increase flow?

btw, by no means do i know what im talking about up there^ could be way off

ive been looking up what makes the fuel system a distribuated system, and the most i can learn is that where the lines come out of the pump is around it so each line gets its fuel with the right cylinder needs it.

from what i can tell it looks like a distribuated system considering one side of the fuel pump is powered by a belt to the cam and the other side has the 4 fuel lines placed around the center of the lid.

any way to increase flow?

btw, by no means do i know what im talking about up there^ could be way off

It's a "Bosch VE" type pump. Do some googling and see what you can find.
My truck has an inline pump, I can't help you with the VE type.

hmm after a little searching i found that the eariler rams had a Bosch VE type setup and theres a few walk through on increasing fuel flow on those.

seem fairly simple with a power adjuster screw and a smoke adjuster screw and idler

i wonder if there similiar .. i might try it tomarrow since i have off work if i get time away from my 302 ranger swap..

well i pulled the car outta the weeds and it starts first turnover! i love this thing!

well i havent got time to adjust the fuel yet but i been maping on the turbo location and how im going to run the pipes.
what i need help on is picking the turbo. so what turbo?

details
20:1 compression or somtihng high not shure
remote turbo 3 ft from manifold
red lines 5.3 rpms
LOOKING FOR AROUND 30 + BOOST

i was wondering if i take a turno off a dodge cummins of power stroke and run alot of propane and launch at a higher rev to make up for the lag... or will it not have enough pressure to spool.

brandon

that's going to take forever to spool... literally, it will never spool. the cummins is a 5.9L, yours is a 2.2L. it's going to be way to big. I don't konw specific models but that's not going to work. anyways, going to bed, can't help any more.

yeah i figured so, just thought i would throw it out there since there easy to find.. and i dont think i can get the boost im looking for outta a t4 or sothing like that running to waste gate. ? any ideals? twin turbo? but i want to keep cost down as low as i can

yeah i figured so, just thought i would throw it out there since there easy to find.. and i dont think i can get the boost im looking for outta a t4 or sothing like that running to waste gate. ? any ideals? twin turbo? but i want to keep cost down as low as i can
The turbo from an Isuzu C223T could be a start. They're a garrett T2 frame.
A T25 would do if you overfuel it enough to get it to spool early. But on my 3.9L diesel a T25 (from a nissan CA18DET) wouldn't hit 15lb boost till about 2500rpm. It's quite conservatively fueled.

wow, surprised a T25 spooled that late.

T25 is the smallest turbo that you can get cheaply, that are plentiful. Anything smaller than that is harder to find, and due to that, is pricier.

As a cost effective consideration, i would go with a T25. Even if it spools late, it will work quite well and won't break the bank. You can pick them up for $100 used without too much shopping. They are (depending on the particular T25) good to 220hp or so. But also keep in mind, they start overspinning around 25psi. Thats the 200,000 RPM range. You don't really want to go over that.

wow, surprised a T25 spooled that late.

Yeah real shame too. Since they're a dime a dozen. It started to boost from about 1400rpm, but took longer to hit 15.

Yeah real shame too. Since they're a dime a dozen. It started to boost from about 1400rpm, but took longer to hit 15.

what was the exhaust AR?

what was the exhaust AR?

0.49

0.49
well, guess a .42 wouldn't have made much difference then....was hoping you'd say .6 something

I'm not as familiar with diesels as I am with gas engines, so its a little hard for me to wrap my brain around a 3.9L engine not spooling a T25 :)

But this is good info. The Mitsu Ecliple uses a T25-55 trim turbo, wiht a .42 AR on the exhaust....I'd suggest using that for this project, its the smallest mass produced exhaust AR that I know of.....although since this engine is nearly half the size of a 3.9L, it may not spool until redline.

Or, you could get a T3-45 trim turbo off a mercedes 300D, they used a .42 AR also....and had about the same HP rating as the T25. I doubt it would spool much differently, but they were good to 30psi

well, guess a .42 wouldn't have made much difference then....was hoping you'd say .6 something

I'm not as familiar with diesels as I am with gas engines, so its a little hard for me to wrap my brain around a 3.9L engine not spooling a T25 :)
I searched high and low for a .42 housing. The closest I got would have been a brand new one for 2-3 times the cost of the second hand turbo.

For reference, the stock turbo has 60mm wheels (both comp and exh) with a 0.42" A/R (11mm), it spooled slightly later but hit 15psi sooner.
My engine was sold in the US with a T25, but I'm struggling to find any info (housing A/R's, wheel trim etc), even armed with part numbers

so basicaly i would do better with lets say a t3-45 so it will spool faster and reach its top boost

so i guess ill start looking for one.

thanks,

did you get it yet?
How did it go.

no ive been looking for a turbo localy but with no luck, other than a lead..

ive been playing with the fuel and it made a great improvement alone but could realy crank it up with boost added