GREAT - Now the tranny fill plug ...

is leaking.

I do remember seeing a black type sealant that once was around the ring of the bolt on the fill plug when I pulled it off last weekend - well that sealant had begun to peel off, but I took a chance at not doing anything extra and just putting it back in.

Well, it's been dropping more and more fluid everytime I park, I initially thought the tiny leak at the seal above the handshifter was getting worse, but it's definitely the fill-plug bolt - cheap fix, hopefully.

I called Isuzu dealership looking for a whole new bolt (with black sealant), he said all I need to get is a new copper gasket/washer??

Does this sound right?

The pits of it is, this truck has to be driven 50 miles today, I'm in nice clothes, don't have time for another shower, and it bugs me as I know it's already lost 1/2qt if not more - easy! Oh, and I don't even HAVE a copper gasket here!!!

This sounds correct, many drain plugs have copper crush gaskets that create a more than adequate seal.

You may be able to pick them up at either a automotive parts store or a hardware store, if you have another vehicle I suggest taking the bolt with you to test fitment. Just make sure the one you get isn't too much larger in diameter than the head of the plug. Also it should be a close fit around the threaded part of the bolt.

You can also try getting some Permatex silicon gasket maker and spreading a little (by finger) onto the flat inside head of the bolt before putting it in, alternatively you can try using standard silicon caulk sometimes referred to as RTV. AFAIK most if not all of it is oil resistant. Just try not to get a lot up into the trans pan.

-Phil

Yes, the older pan bolts used a washer that had an o-ring bonded to it. The rubber tears away if they are loosened/tightened, forcing you to replace it. Later on they just went with a copper crush washer. My 2002 had copper crush washers. I never had a problem just re-using those. I never over torque them, so they seem to last, or you can just flip them over & use the clean side.

Joel

Cool - well, it made it, almost wanted to unload the #500 pounds of play sand (in 50# bags) into the Xterra. But, I REALLY didn't want to.

I also didn't feel like driving all the way back into town once I got the Rodeo home, so I just bought a few different sizes of copper washers, one of them is bound to fit.

Tranny's way way too hot with this 98F heat we're having and with having driven it on the highway for a half hour each way - so I'll tackle it in the morning, and just do another drain/refill while I'm at it. That way I can be all done with getting most of the older (36k+ mile) fluid out.

I'm just glad it's a $.2 fix versus the $200 part for the seal that is weeping - thought I was going to have to replace it sooner.

Thanks!

Question though - while I have the actual drain bolt out, although it still has quite a bit of the black sealent on it remaining, should I put a washer on it anyway?

My fill and drain plugs have never had a washer, but some kind of thread sealant which I've never had to replenish. I like the copper washer solution better than sealant.

I think I would try to clean all the black stuff off. Might pevent the copper washer from sealing properly.

ok, well, I ended up with some Gold washers - thought for sure they were copper in the store. One of these still ok to use, i.e. Gold washer?

Gold??? Never heard of one. If you can get it to seal I'm sure almost any washer would work. Just remember, tight enough to prevent leaks and not vibrate out. Roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn after the surface of the washer is contacting both the pan and the head of the washer. (ie: 17 - 22 ft. lbs.)

-Phil

Ok, well I actually found 2 copper washers stashed away that came with my OEM oil filters for the oil drain bolt; they are about 1/2" in size - these are what I used on both transmission bolts, i.e. drain and filler plug. They're just a slight tad bigger then the threads, so we'll see.

For now, I put them both back in, filled her up, and there IS a very slight tad bit of weeping around both bolts, I've been ever so slightly giving each one tabs on the torque wrench, then waiting a few, etc.

This time, I had lost 1 qt in 1 weeks time - OUCH!!!

But, believe it or not, other then the crossmember, the underside of the truck is clean - how strange is that?

Appearently I have a chronic case of UNDER-torqueing. After I shut the truck off earlier, thinking the bolts were done weeping, I come back out an hour later to find two tiny tiny puddles of ATF under both bolts.

Gosh darnit! Is what I was thinking, finally gave up and pulled out the torque/LB wrench, I had way under-torqued them.

All is good, took it into town 40 miles round-trip, shifts even nicer then when I swapped fluid out last week.

Beginning to believe Surferfletch - his opinion was his tranny shifts smoother everytime he exchanges fluid.

But, this is IT! At least for 10k or so, I must've gotten quite a bit of the old (36K+ mile) fluid out between these last two drain/refills, which equals a total of 3 drain/refills in the last 5mnths/6k miles. I'd say that's good enough for now, as the fluid was not much different then what came out of the bottle.

Glad to hear everything is straightened out!

Good Job! :thumbsup:

-Phil

I hope this is it for tranny threads for awhile. Everytime I see one I want to swap a few quarts. Tranny paranoia!

Now, now Surferfletch, take DEEP breaths! It's alright....Kidding!

Honestly, if I wouldn't have had that leak at the gasket, I wouldn't have messed with the transmission, as it had 5 qts of new fluid, filter, and such; but the darn thing wouldn't quite weeping, and I can't stand a vehicle that marks it's territory on my driveway!! :cwm27:


The good thing is, is the fluid is most definitely clean and good for at least 10k miles or 3-4yrs before I'll accrue another 10k miles.

There is a good chance that you got the largest percentage of the contamination out of the trans pan, at least. Anything else there which is ferrous should be stuck to the big magnetic doughnut, or will be too large to make it through the filter. And most of the potentially broken down oil should be fortified with fresh oil. Short of draining both pans, that's about the best you can do. Some people completely ignore their trans oil, so you're at least doing a lot better than that.

Some people completely ignore their trans oil, so you're at least doing a lot better than that.

Figure that's the least I can do - this tranny has had a hard working life considering it's size, and I never thought it'd make it this far, changing it's fluid constantly I guess, is the least I can do to see just how far I can go.

My washers looks like star from inside edge, they original from factory but I not remember any rubber gasket part . I use hightemp cooper RTV. Every time I open tranny, I clean washers from old RTV and put new in. It works very well, no leaks, did this already many times. It leaks without RTV. One time I tried to get away from RTV, I tried some aluminum washers but since surface around hole not flat anough it was leaking ATF.

Copper washers alone are not working. Worked for a day and it's allowing a slight amount out of both bolts - this is REALLY starting to aggravate me.

df2000 - you mention using copper RTV hightemp sealant, are you applying a small amount to the threads and/or just the inside head of the bolts?

One of the guys on planetisuzoo.com (protetype) was having the same problem. Had to have the tranny replaced and the new one was leaking from the plugs. The place that did the tranny ordered new plugs which were supposed to be in last monday. I havent heard back yet if it worked.

Some of the guys on the m'cycle board I used to go to all the time swear by Hylomar sealant for leaks they have trouble getting to stop. I have no idea where to get it here, that board is based in sweden. Aparently Hylomar has a factory in the US too though.

From their site..
Solvent free version of HYLOMAR Universal Blue which is the leading non-setting gasket and sealing compound in use world-wide. The product is used by many of the world’s major automotive manufacturers.
FEATURES

Non hardening and non setting
Unlimited assembly time
Vibration resistant
Allows metal to metal contact
Resistant to combustion products, water, enginecoolant, petroleum, lubricating oils, kerosene and fluorocarbon refrigerants
Seals surface imperfections
Withstands rapid variations in temperature
Flame, dust and moisture proofing properties http://www.hylomar.co.uk/

i had the same problem with mine after changing the trans fluid. the old star like washer had some sort of rtv on it that kept it sealed up. i put mine back together after a pan drain and presto both bolts leaking. i went to autozone with the bolt and bought a metal washer coated in rubber. works like a charm. you have to ask for it because it was behind the counter in a multiple washer box. they have all sizes of them. something like 19 cents each. i also have reused them once with no problems. mike

2000Isuzu - cool! Do you remember what size? I'd prefer something such as this versus an RTV sealant.

I don't mind redoing it, my issue is I have nothing to store the ATF that's going to dump out, and I really do not want to have to buy more ATF - it's CLEAN for pete's sakes.

i forget the size. i did take the bolt in while the trans was draining and matched it up. the new rubber coated washer was snug enough on the bolt that i had to thread the bolt through the new washer due to rubber coating overhanging in the hole. it was a good tight seal.
i'd like to meet the corporate accountant responsible for the star washer. but i guess if you are gullible enough to believe the owners manual, that these tranmissions have life time fluid in them, then you have no reason to muck with the drain plugs and washers. good luck with gettin her sealed up!

Ok; think we got it this time!!!

I took your advise and went back to Autozone and got the 1/2" metal washers coated in rubber, got MORE ATF fluid, this time they were out of Pennzoil ATF (Gee - couldn't imagine why :rolleyes:).

So, I now have probably 5.5 qts of Pennzoil and 3.5 qts of Maxlife HM ATF in the sump now; hopefully this makes for a good combo.

Took it for a drive - and yes, it shifts really really really smooth - it BETTER after 3 drain/refills in less then a month; so far NO LEAKING!

Good, cause I'm getting SICK of smelling ATF.

You know, I think it's the little things on vehicles that just make you want to kick the bee-jeebies out of them. :crying: :crying: :crying:

RF: Sorry for late response. OK, washer already on the bolt, I make a gasket from RTV on star part of the washer on the side which touch pan, nothing on treads, wait 10-15 min for RTV to cure somewhat and it ready to use.

Good to see you got 'er done...I've started another thread but would like to know how you filled the tranny? A big syringe or what?? thanks

I use screw on the jug hand pump. It cost $6 and fit 1gal bottle, get it at Pepboys, Advance Auto. Works well.

So what's the deal with running vehicle while adding? To not overfill tranny?
I need to change tranny oil, so can't I just remove drain plug, let drain and then refill, or is there residual in tranny itself or the small rectangular reservoir
that needs to be drained also? Haven't messed with tranny on this vehicle yet. And I'll make sure
to get rubber coated washers!! Thanks

If your simply "checking" the level of fluid -

1. Start engine and let idle for 3-4 minutes on level surface. (I recommend starting this procedure first thing in the morning, before any driving, or 45-60 minutes after having driven for more then 4-6 miles.)

2. Shift transmission through all of the gears at least 3 times.

3. Put transmission in neutral, pull the emergency brake, and leave engine running.

4. You'll need a 19mm socket, lots of shop towels.

5. VERY slowly pull the overfill bolt on the transmission.

6. If fluid dribbles out, your level is fine. If nothing comes out, insert more fluid until it starts to dribble out.

7. Reinsert bolt - highly recommend a 1/2" metal washer coated with rubber on the bolt; does not take much torque to retighten bolt. Do NOT overtighten and crush the rubber on the gasket or you will be redoing it.

If you're wanting to do a partial drain/refill (getting rid of some old fluid) -

1st off, it's impossible, with a drain/refill, to get all of the old fluid out all at once; the only way that's possible is to have your transmission flushed, which I do not recommend if you have more then 40k miles on your current transmission fluid.

With the drain/refill procedure, you will dump out roughly 3-4qts from the pan itself, the 4L30-E transmissions hold a total capacity of 9.1 qts - so by doing a drain/refill you are replenishing about half of the fluid.

I would do one drain/refill, wait about 3-4k miles, and do another drain/refill, then you should be good to go for 15-20k miles or so; after 2 drain/refill cycles, over 90% of your fluid should be clean.

1. Start this on a cold, already leveled truck (from the night before).

2. If you like your garage floor and do not want it to look like a murder scene, I suggest laying out a tarp, followed by a big piece of cardboard, a bucket/oil pan that can hold 4 qts, many many shop towels and the tools, pump, and new transmission fluid.

3. Pull the drain bolt on your transmission, I let mine drain for 15 minutes or so.

4. Put a new 1/2" metal washer (with rubber) on the drain bolt and tighten it back up, again, don't overtighten - previous poster listed the torque specs.

5. This step isn't one that you have to do, but I did just for peace of mind - measure the amount of fluid that came out of the transmission pan as this gives an idea of what needs to go back in.

6. Unbolt your fill-plug and pump in enough fluid that it just starts to dribble out - close to 3qts or so.

7. Loosely put your fill-plug back in, just enough to stop fluid from dripping out, no need to tighten it yet as you're not done.

8. Start the engine, shift to neutral (no need to shift through gears yet), get back under truck, slowly pull out the fill-plug and keep pumping in fluid until it starts to dribble back out at you.

9. Each time that it just starts to dribble back out at you, loosely put the fill-plug back in, get in truck and shift through all of the gears, stopping for at least 9-10 seconds in each gear. Aim to do this step at least 3-4 times before calling it good.

10. Try not to go over 30 minutes total time in doing step 9, as you want the transmission pan to be warm, but not hot by the time you're done - if the fluid gets too hot, it expands, and will give you incorrect level.

11. Don't forget to tighten down the fill-plug when you're all done.

Thanks Ramblin for the complete process. I just want to add back what I've lost, but it can't be put possibly a half qt. at most, since it hasn't been leaking that long and its a slow leak. At 100k I'll prolly do the whole deal.

Truthfully, I wouldn't wait till 100k, waiting till 70k on THIS particular transmission is pushing the limits already.

This transmission is designed by GM code # 4L30-E (incase it's not already mentioned in this thread) - this transmission literally requires very frequent fluid changes, 30-35k max, and without it, most of them kill off by about 90-100k miles.

Personally, if you're gonna keep it, I'd start doing a few fluid drain/refills now; this is not a cheap transmission to replace, and in fact, can be kind of pricey because it's literally an obsolete transmission and shops HATE this one.

I went to Autozone and asked about the rubber coated washer. The guy at the counter said they carry no such product.

Hmmm, I had no problem, once I realized what I was after. Ask him if he has a container behind the counter that holds washers, take a look in there - it's not something they keep out front.

Try asking someone else or a different store, he may not be aware.