I was watching a re-run of Top Gear (A British car show) in which several cars had been put up against each other in a grudge match! Great fun, around 10 cars all sat on the line ready for a good blasting! The cars on the line were a Ford RS Cosworth Escort (Pre-focus) Aston Martin, Ferrari and a few others. Also, a small little 1600cc caterham 7 put in as a presenters losers ride!

The race was over a mile from standing, the viper with the hugely, silly and pointlessly large engine was slated before they even started for being all grunt no action! It was demoted to coming around mid to bottom table!

As the race set off, it was clear the ugly viper was having trouble keeping up with the rest! In the eventual ending, The viper, and all its ugliness came a very distant last!

Ever since I understand the viper has been dropping in price, as people are embarrassed to own one!

(Beaten by a little Caterham 7 running a 1600cc engine, oh the shame! The Shame!)

Not to worry, typical American car really!

Aston Man

The car that won the race by a long shot was the TVR Cerbera (0-60 in 3.9 seconds, 0-100 in 8.1 seconds and 0-150 in 17.9 seconds, the Cerbera 4.5 is one of the fastest road cars in existence, and a hell of a lot more sexy to look at then that monster viper)

lol, wish i had seen that. I really dont rate Viper's, they are heavy and slow, and everyone i know that has driven one says they are a bag of shit. The Caterham wouldnt surprise me, was it just a plain 7? even they are fast.

Man you all are some real assholes. I don't think I'll ever understand Europeans.

I don't know what the heck a Caterham 7 is but it sounds like a tiny little car like a Mini Cooper. I'm not even going to argue with you about that cuz that is bullshit.

But you Penzoil, heavy and slow? You drive a Clio. You wouldn't stand a chance in hell against a Viper. And for a muscle car it isn't heavy. It weights almost the same as a Trans Am or Z28 Camaro.

Man, Viper 10 needs to come in here and teach you guys a lesson. What was it, a Fiero with a Viper body kit? :rolleyes:

That is one of the most ignorant loads of bullshit I have ever read.

well get this DEVIL im not european and i DISGUST the Viper its a cheap piece of ugly underpowered over priced SHIT! All everyone knows about the viper is that when you mod the hell outta it is could be pretty fast. I mean i was at a car show and some moron went up to the viper and said.. this thing could kick every other cars ass, i wanted to go kick his ass cuz he was stupid and a moron!

And you really cannot said that you are a car fanatic when you dont know what a SUPER 7 IS. And you flame other people because they drive clio's when you drive an s10 that would have no chance against any decent car.

BTW, The Super 7 is a lightweight high hp/weight ratio that is known for its pure speed and light weight which makes it an incrediable competetor (sp?) towards any other decent car.

Originally posted by SilverLotus340R
well get this DEVIL im not european and i DISGUST the Viper its a cheap piece of ugly underpowered over priced SHIT! All everyone knows about the viper is that when you mod the hell outta it is could be pretty fast. I mean i was at a car show and some moron went up to the viper and said.. this thing could kick every other cars ass, i wanted to go kick his ass cuz he was stupid and a moron!

You don't know jack shit about the Viper, so maybe you should stop calling DeViL ignorant and a non-enthusiast. You are showing nothing more than the fact that you know very little about a car you say you disgust. Slow, ugly, cheap, overpriced? I am betting you like the Skyline a lot don't you? :rolleyes:

Hmm... British car won on a British car show? You don't say! American car came in last? I don't believe it! :o :rolleyes:

I wonder if American cars win on American car shows... :bandit:
I wonder if Japanese cars win on Japanese car shows... :smoka:

I know we have at least one Viper owner on the board; are there any Seven owners to [legitimately] represent them? And even then, what are the chances of a fair comparison? :p

Anyone who compares the viper to a escort cosworth or caterham 7 is just ignorant. I realize the top gear presenters are very knowledgeable in their fields and have racing experience, but when it comes to heritage american muscle, they are absolutely clueless.

A viper is all about brute power and style. It was never meant to compete on a road course and it was never meant to set hp per liter records. It was meant to turn heads and smoke tires. Why then test it against a caterham? The only problem I see is the fact that chrysler decided to sell it overseas where no one wants a big, stylish boulevard brute.

Its also over a DECADE old!

as people are embarrassed to own one!
Pretentious bullshit. Price is going down because there is no market for such a car in england, and because the next viper is coming out before the years end (which will certainly crush many an aston on a road course).

Not to worry, typical American car really
Not to worry, typical (insert nationality here) obnoxiousness. Were you not touting the Escort RS a moment ago? Did you know ford owns aston martin?

Originally posted by Polygon


You don't know jack shit about the Viper, so maybe you should stop calling DeViL ignorant and a non-enthusiast. You are showing nothing more than the fact that you know very little about a car you say you disgust. Slow, ugly, cheap, overpriced? I am betting you like the Skyline a lot don't you? :rolleyes:


well spoke Poly.

Jesus some of you guys are so close minded I wouldn't be supprised to find out your in the kkk or any other type or racist close minded organization, just cus a person likes a particular that makes them a stupid moron? How does that work?
I can understand that maybe you don't like a car for a any particular reason but just because some one ells does wouldn't have any effect on there intelligence (unless of course they said something like "yea man this car is so awesome, it can go 200 miles an hour" and they are talking about a Yugo. That's ignorance.) But what you guys are so hell bent on exploiting is just someone else's opinion, shit. Open your Fuc<ing mind and quit coming in here and start ragging on people because they don't share the same point of view as you do.


And DEVIL, What the hell is this load of crap "But you Penzoil, heavy and slow? You drive a Clio. You wouldn't stand a chance in hell against a Viper."

Well no shit captain obvious. You I don't remember him saying once that he could beat a viper in his car, so were the hell do you get off talking smack about the car he drives?
O, and by the way My dad could beat up your dad. :flipa:
WTF?????????????

polygon, actually your wrong i dont like the Skyline much. And i am right about the viper it sucks ass and it falls apart little by little. A neighbor arond here bought a viper BRAND NEW and he drove it for a week and by then he had to replace 3 fuses inside and his exhaust had fallen completly off....so i think that qualifies as LACK OF QUALITY

Originally posted by Fliquer
Anyone who compares the viper to a escort cosworth or caterham 7 is just ignorant. I realize the top gear presenters are very knowledgeable in their fields and have racing experience, but when it comes to heritage american muscle, they are absolutely clueless.

A viper is all about brute power and style. It was never meant to compete on a road course and it was never meant to set hp per liter records. It was meant to turn heads and smoke tires. Why then test it against a caterham? The only problem I see is the fact that chrysler decided to sell it overseas where no one wants a big, stylish boulevard brute.

Its also over a DECADE old!


Not to worry, typical (insert nationality here) obnoxiousness. Were you not touting the Escort RS a moment ago? Did you know ford owns aston martin?


Another Great post to what is on its way to becoming an officially "Retarded" thread.

Were u being sarcastic? (I really cant tell)

This thread was retarded to begin with.

Originally posted by Fliquer
Were u being sarcastic? (I really cant tell)

This thread was retarded to begin with.


No dude, I agree with you. And yea your right.

Originally posted by Fliquer
This thread was retarded to begin with. *ding*ding*ding*

AstonMartin was obviously "taking the piss."

Click Here if you never want to read a post by AstonMartin again. (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member2.php?s=&action=addlist&userlist=ignore&userid=34772)

Originally posted by SilverLotus340R
polygon, actually your wrong i dont like the Skyline much. And i am right about the viper it sucks ass and it falls apart little by little. A neighbor arond here bought a viper BRAND NEW and he drove it for a week and by then he had to replace 3 fuses inside and his exhaust had fallen completly off....so i think that qualifies as LACK OF QUALITY

Ok, you don't like the Skyline, but that isn't very relevant anyhow. You are right about the Viper? It sucks ass, very eloquent. So he had to replace three whole fuses and the exhaust fell off? I don't buy that load of BS. Perhaps it hasn't been treated very well. I have seen many Vipers even around here with exhausts completely intact. You keep proving to me that you are more and more ignorant and foolish with each post; you chose to disgrace a great car manufacture by using that name. Same goes for you AstonMartin.

Honestly, where is Viper 10 when you need him? He always explains thing best.

right, not once did i say my Clio would beat a Viper, simply because anyone in their right mind knows it wouldnt. So please, if you're gonna say stuff like that, please say it for a reason, not just to flame me.

DeViL you quite obviously have no idea what a Caterham 7 is, so before you go calling them bullshit, and "like a Mini Cooper". Run a little search on google and you will find they are smaller than a Mini Cooper, yet considerably faster, faster even than you're beloved Viper. Now i am speaking from personal experiences, i dont know where you are speaking from DeViL (you're ass perhaps?), but just last Sunday i watched a Viper Venom 550 get made to look rather stupid by preety much every car that attended this show i went to. Now i know the cars that attended were mostly awesomely powerful, but some were not, yet they still beat all 4 Viper's present. Now i do not debate that they are muscle cars, but muscle cars are, like it or not, a dying breed.

I DO quite like the look of Viper's, i even like the idea of a muscle car too, but the fact is, when compared against other cars they are competing against they just cant cut it, they are too heavy, and too slow. Sorry to burst you're little bubble, but its true, ask anyone who has driven a Viper and some other sports car under $100,000. Reaosn Vipers dont seel so well in Europe is because we do not give a shit about American history and muscle, we want a fast car for as little money as possible. In the US you like to keep it American, keep you're heritage hence all you're Mustangs, etc.

Ermm, and i realllllly would go slagging off Escort Cosworths, you dont get them in the US, so you dont realise just how fast they actually are.

Are you saying the 7 has better quarter mile times than the viper? Or are you still trying to compare them when they are in completely different market segments?

Ermm, and i realllllly would go slagging off Escort Cosworths, you dont get them in the US, so you dont realise just how fast they actually are.

I dont know what you mean by slagging, but I do know what cosworths can do. Thats why I told him not to bash american car companies.

Firstly, let me just say sorry f you thought I was slagging off your Viper manufacture, I was not. I just looked through a lot of your threads because I recently watched an extremely reputable car show, one that would not show biased to any country, and in fact in my opinion should show a bit more loyalty to the British car manufacturer’s, but that’s another story. And all I can see was praise for a car that seemed to me did not deserve it.

The contest took various super cars from various countries with the goal of finding the ultimate car. There are various types of cars from super cars, Sunday driving cars, 4x4’s etc taken into consideration. The section I refer to was on super cars, the idea being to pick the best and put it through to the next round, then compete for the ultimate car from throughout the various types etc, etc, etc,

The team measured these ‘mainstream’ super cars on what they are intended for; performance, appearance, desirability, prestige and heritage.

And, although this must pain you to realise, the Viper was slagged on all accounts as a worthless, overpriced, all noise no action boring typically ugly American designed car.

But the caterham seven was brought in as ‘punishment’ for one of the presenters, whilst the others all drove super cars, he had to drive the little caterham seven!

The winner of the performance section of this test was the TVR, sorry if this was British but it left the Ferraris standing also! But the overall winner of the super car section of the ultimate car was the Aston Martin! But I new that anyway!

Again, did not come in here to slag your car. But to indicate that you seemed to be very narrow minded and blind to the fact that there are plenty of other cars out in there in or under the same price as the Viper, they look a thousand times sexier too.

Oh and by the way, after several tests throughout the day, the new Viper had to have a new clutch? A little over 1000 miles on the day and the poorly made Viper had to have another clutch? MADNESS!

Remember no blubbering! Just a crap car when compared with the competition! (And the Caterham Seven was not even meant to be a competitor!


Aston Martin Man!

well, from caterhams own website, i get the fastest car(fast comparable to other caterhams of course) as the R500 superlight, a stripped, race ready track car with no trunk space, a pathetically weak engine with only 230 BHP at an astronomically high 8600 RPM (revving to F1 speeds in the real world, unlike european belief, is not always a sign of a fast car) and an even weaker 150 BF/lbs at 5750 RPM, you couldnt manage to get this car up driveway in 1st gear until nearly redline, bahaha. the caterham weighs in at 460 kilos or 1012 lbs (if i did the conversion correctly, feel free to correct if wrong) and contains multiple pieces made of carbon fiber and magnesium, most notably the wheels. a car built like this would not last 2 weeks on a real road in everyday driving, nor would it meet any north american crashtest rating, unless going under the car thats about to hit you counts. . .
you cannot compare a car built strictly for racing with no amenities, trunk space nor a usable engine to a viper, which is, while i'm not a large fan, a very well balanced car in he fact it can please the rich of the world and still offer performance. as to a TVR winning the whole show over ferraris and porsche's, you just proved at that point how wholly biased and completely useless this whole thing has become, top gear is an extremely european, and british most notably, biased source, believe otherwise all you like aston, but aston martin cannot compete witht he true performance manufacturers of the world, nor is this caterham a worthy opponent for any of the cars mentioned.
why dont we compare this to a shelby replica? thats quite a bit more fair. sorry, i forgot, europeans dont like making fair comparisons, it tends to make their false aura of superiority fade away to a lackluster sub 1st place category. . .

The fact that you’re not even interested in objective arguments regarding the Viper, and that you try to ‘stop’ people from viewing my posts says it all! You pathetic narrow minded inbred man-on-man lover!

See, if you want me to be blunt about it I can! At the end of the day, the Viper is a shit, wank, crap, lame, boring, stupid, outclassed, pointless, typically American styling waste of money!

Now piss off you stupid thick fucking waster!

Oh that was liberating! One has never spoken like an American before! I feel so degraded!

All I said at the end of the day was the most reputable British motoring show slagged the Viper completely! That’s all! Just wanted your (the Viper community) input on the situation! But no, you start crying writing little ‘do not see Aston’s posts’ You have completely embarrassed yourself and I understand that the ‘Viper’ community is so narrow minded, cannot accept negative proven reports about the ‘Shitmobile’.

If you want to be nasty with me, I can dance to that tune!

Aston Martin Man (Currently slumming it with the inbred Viper community)

Okay, your not listening are you FYRHWK1, let me speak more slowly for you

The Caterham Seven was the ‘booby’ prize in that it was a punishment drive for one of the presenters and was not even in the competition. Read the damn posts you fool!

The Viper can please the rich in the world? What the fuck are you on mate? If a person who is deemed ‘rich’ wanted to buy a car he/she would strive to purchase a car that has the ability to turn heads, has amazing looks, have the elite status that pushes the person from the ranks of normal car drivers etc etc etc.

If he was to buy a Viper he would be saying what? I’m a fucking tit look at me in my ugly car with no status whatsoever! I’m rich I drive a Dodge, sorry, Dodgy Viper? I’m rich I drive a Ferrari! I’m rich I drive an Aston Martin! You tell me what sounds right you dumb ass!

Then you go on and say that I said the TVR won over the Ferraris and Porsches. Will you please read the damn posts! Fucking hell you get some really stupid idiots on here! I said the TVR pissed all over the lot of them on performance, which it did! By a fucking shit load! Jesus Christ read! I did not say it won the whole super car contest, that went to the Aston Martin simply because it has the ability to keep up with the ‘super car’ bunch. And I agree doesn’t beat them in anyway but does beat the likes of Ferrari on the prestige, heritage desirability and over perception the Aston Martin offers. No other car the world over can offer that!

Then with that you said the overall winner of the ultimate car in the world is the TVR? You really do have the brain of a two-year-old don’t you! I have not even said what car won the ultimate car! All I have said is that each grouping of cars, be it super cars, 4x4’s, executive cars etc etc all compete with each other to find the very best in that class. Then the winner of each group goes forth and competes against each other!

Then you go on to slag the Europeans and in particular the British and its highly reputable car show, that many believe brought the initial demise of Rover, a British car manufacture by stating that they were crap all the time! They were, but now they are really improving but that’s another story! So how can they be biased? Hmmm Fuckwit aren’t you!

Also the car that won the entire competition for the ultimate car was the BMW M3! Now correct me if I’m wrong, as I have been spending at lot of time with you American fuck heads and have ‘lowered’ myself to your level, the BMW is a German car? Hmmmm you really are a fuck wit mate pure and simple!

But your stupidity is not satisfied at this point, you go on to state about the shelby replica and how unfair we are not to include it (Blubbering all the time it sounds) I will say this once more, read the fucking posts you really fucking thick twat! I said mainstream super cars! MAINSTREAM! If I this was not the case, I could include the Ascari KZ1 An amazingly fast super car or even the Italian Zonda! But these are NOT MAINSTREAM!!!!!!!

So please go check yourself for ‘Dunce’ hats or ‘please kick me’ stickers on your arse! You sound the type of person who would have them!

Cannot even read?

the Escort Cosworth is actually designed for European markets, but thats beside the point. I am not comparing the two cars overall as they are two different cars, the Caterham is a track day car or a weekend car. I am just saying that the Caterham is faster than the Viper, and thats not just in a straight line. And for it not meeting you're crash tests, the Porsche 959 never did you're crash tests, so are you gonna take the piss outta that too? Now all of you seem to discredit the Aston Martins. The new Vanquish is a very different car than the old dinosaurs, and is a very worthwhile Ferrari competitor. But the Viper is not. It is Americas supercar, yet it is too heavy and too slow to keep up with the competition. It is just like you're Mustangs etc stand no chance against similar offerings from BMW and Mercedes, even though they are popular in America for their "muscle".


BTW, i dont understand you to realise how good TVR's are as you dont get them, especially for their price tag of under £50,000 (that price tag is probably why it won). The 4.5 is a massively quick car, and i will guarantee it will leave any American car for dead in the 1/4 or on a circuit. Probably the same as it is with me underestimating the Saleens.

Pennzoil, don’t you feel as though you’re in a thread full of wankers who just cannot take any criticism?

What a waste of time these losers in their shit cars are!

I wonder if you put a the standard top of the range clio up against the dodgy Viper, not too much difference would there?

0 to 60 6.3 Seconds
0 to 100 18.9 Seconds
Top Speed 146 Miles Per Hour
6 Speed Manual Gearbox
230 Brake Horse Power
Power Train Layout - Mid-Engine/Rear Wheel Drive


The clio is not a slow as you may think!

Aston Man

Originally posted by AstonMartin
Okay, your not listening are you FYRHWK1, let me speak more slowly for you

The Caterham Seven was the ‘booby’ prize in that it was a punishment drive for one of the presenters and was not even in the competition. Read the damn posts you fool!

The Viper can please the rich in the world? What the fuck are you on mate? If a person who is deemed ‘rich’ wanted to buy a car he/she would strive to purchase a car that has the ability to turn heads, has amazing looks, have the elite status that pushes the person from the ranks of normal car drivers etc etc etc.

If he was to buy a Viper he would be saying what? I’m a fucking tit look at me in my ugly car with no status whatsoever! I’m rich I drive a Dodge, sorry, Dodgy Viper? I’m rich I drive a Ferrari! I’m rich I drive an Aston Martin! You tell me what sounds right you dumb ass!

Then you go on and say that I said the TVR won over the Ferraris and Porsches. Will you please read the damn posts! Fucking hell you get some really stupid idiots on here! I said the TVR pissed all over the lot of them on performance, which it did! By a fucking shit load! Jesus Christ read! I did not say it won the whole super car contest, that went to the Aston Martin simply because it has the ability to keep up with the ‘super car’ bunch. And I agree doesn’t beat them in anyway but does beat the likes of Ferrari on the prestige, heritage desirability and over perception the Aston Martin offers. No other car the world over can offer that!

Then with that you said the overall winner of the ultimate car in the world is the TVR? You really do have the brain of a two-year-old don’t you! I have not even said what car won the ultimate car! All I have said is that each grouping of cars, be it super cars, 4x4’s, executive cars etc etc all compete with each other to find the very best in that class. Then the winner of each group goes forth and competes against each other!

Then you go on to slag the Europeans and in particular the British and its highly reputable car show, that many believe brought the initial demise of Rover, a British car manufacture by stating that they were crap all the time! They were, but now they are really improving but that’s another story! So how can they be biased? Hmmm Fuckwit aren’t you!

Also the car that won the entire competition for the ultimate car was the BMW M3! Now correct me if I’m wrong, as I have been spending at lot of time with you American fuck heads and have ‘lowered’ myself to your level, the BMW is a German car? Hmmmm you really are a fuck wit mate pure and simple!

But your stupidity is not satisfied at this point, you go on to state about the shelby replica and how unfair we are not to include it (Blubbering all the time it sounds) I will say this once more, read the fucking posts you really fucking thick twat! I said mainstream super cars! MAINSTREAM! If I this was not the case, I could include the Ascari KZ1 An amazingly fast super car or even the Italian Zonda! But these are NOT MAINSTREAM!!!!!!!

So please go check yourself for ‘Dunce’ hats or ‘please kick me’ stickers on your arse! You sound the type of person who would have them!

Cannot even read?

Oh we're going to have a BALL here folks, someone pass the popcorn i dont think the limey is finished yet, they have a propensity to babble on incessantly.

Now, if YOU will read my posts a bit more carefully, you would notice THIS
"you cannot compare a car built strictly for racing with no amenities, trunk space nor a usable engine to a viper"

now tell me where do you get the idea I claimed the MAGAZINE included it in the comparison when i CLEARLY included the word 'you' in there? I wonder sometimes about the schooling over there . . .
A rich person decides to buy a car based upon prestige, power, looks and pricetag, as for prestige the Viper has been spanking you limeys around LeMans for years, thats enough prestige for anyone who isnt a biased fuck with little to no automotice knowledge (read: you)

and you claimed the TVR had the best times out of the lot of them, that to me means WINNING(which the TVR isnt capable of when put up against a real set of cars & drivers, but thats obvious, its british) The problem here is that a TVR beat a lineup of Ferrari's and Porsche's in a PERFORMANCE aspect, do you actually think the hunk is capable of something like that? your blind brand, or country of origin i should say, bias is rampant, and IF they didn't include such cars in a test, well SURE, put a pathetic driver in the car which can dethrone it (the viper) and cut out the rest of the contenders, and call the TVR a winner, whoop de doo. and if you couldnt understand that, read it again and notice the word IF.

Now, onto your further babble about MAINSTREAM cars being included, you mean to say they tested (no, not included int he comparison, TESTED) a caterham and you consider them MAINSTREAM? thats a RIOT, seeing as how a Factory Five racing car can be bought and have had assembled for you, OR can be bought and assembled yourself, much like the inferior caterham cars, how you could consider the caterham MAINSTREAM and the Cobra replica not i fail to see, but you never made any sense anyway so this hardly comes as a suprise.

And I've seen top gear articles before, of course YOU wouldnt notice the bias but then again, they're biased towards the cars you believe to be the best, and simply because they ratted rover out doesnt change the fact they are biased now, journalists of all kinds LOVE dirty news.

And to make this post even LONGER, pennzoil said "And for it not meeting you're crash tests, the Porsche 959 never did you're crash tests, so are you gonna take the piss outta that too?"
the point was not whether it DID the crash tests or not, the point was that it would FAIL, to pass a crash test you need a minimum level of safety from the cars chassis, a caterham has neither the integrity nor the size to protect its occupants in a wreck of any speed or with one involving another vehicle(s) while the viper actually does fairly well in this case, adding even more weight to it, you do realize if they felt like it they could make a stripper car and blow the caterham out of the water, the point is it would not sell, and unlik caterham dodge needs these to move in large(larger then the caterham anyway) quantities.

So now that i've gotten rid of that irritating false sense of superiority (aston man that is, pennzoil seems to lack the blind idiocy and loyalty you so proudly flaunt), will you wise up and attempt to learn a thing or 2 about automobiles? or are you going to try and insult your way out of the corner again? i've got all day. :bandit:

first off, not a good idea to start using nationalities in this, because it would be alot easier for us limeys to slag of the most hated nation in the world, so please, dont do it, same goes for you AstonMartin, dont slag them off.

You cant say how crap a car is you dont get in the US. While the Caterham is not competing with the Viper, is is faster. In fact, the Caterham R500 is blisteringly quick, and its light weight means it would give any road car bar the Le Mans homoloagation specials a hard time on a road track. And TVR, the 4.5 is fast, and i would not doubt it is the fastest of all cars on test, with a 3.9 second 0-60 time (and 0-60 times are NOT biased). Is it the best? well with all supercars it is down to a matter of taste.

And no, the base 7 probably wouldnt pass youre crash tests, in fact its not much short of a death trap, but the point is it doesnt have to becasue its not built for the US market,

If you want a quick cheap car then get something like a Caterham or a Jap car, if you want a supercar, get a Ferrari. If you want a supercar for the same money as a Viper get a Z06 if ur in the US, if not get a TVR. The Viper no longer has a real niche in the market to fit into. It sells so well in the US because its a Viper. It is the stuff of legends for you guys, a proper muscle car. But the rest of us dont care about that, our roads are twisty and treacherous, we need something that is fast, and can corner, and the Viper just cant cut it

I've just got two things to say.

1.) If the Viper smoked ANY clutches in a test, then it must've been one helluva lame British driver. Imagine that. The stock T-56 trannies on a stock car are pretty much bullet proof. I beat on my stock clutch for over 40,000 miles before finally modded the car beyond the stock clutch holding capabilities.

2.) Those Clio specs just show how much of a turd that thing is. I'd be embarrassed to post something like that for all to see on a sports car forum.

Anyway, carry on kids.

Im surprised you are still trying to compare these cars. The only car you have mentioned so far that MIGHT be called appropriate competition for the Viper is the Cerbera, which by the way is 10 years newer than the dodge (2003 is the year of the new viper, which will be a seriously competitive sports car). Top Gear can be biassed in their opinions, and it was silly of them to put a stock viper on a track against a caterham. When the race is over, you criticize the viper for being slow around the corners? No SHIT! Why are you criticising a car for not being what it wasnt meant to be?

I want to make sure we are talking about the same viper here. A stock 2001 Viper GTS will do 60 in less than 4 seconds, has a slalom speed of 72 mph, and will do sub 12 second 1/4 miles on 105 gas. It costs $72k here in america. The cerbera 4.5 costs 45K pounds (i think) which equals about $72k.

"Worthless, ugly, typical american, etc" - These are your opinions and are not objective in any way. These are words you use when you are trying to piss off someone, not when you are having a constructive argument. Therefore you dont come across as being "critical" of the viper, you sound like youre just trying to pick an easy fight.

Theres more I could criticize about your argument, but I dont like making my posts too long.

BTW, I DO NOT AGREE with those on here who would bash the clio or the caterham. I choose to ignore them since they are so close-minded.

You all can argue your respective sides until you're all blue in the face, I don't care. You're all entitled to your opinions, TV shows, magazines, etc. But, you can do it WITHOUT PERSONAL ATTACKS. Attacking a make or model of car is one thing, no matter how it hurts the ego, but attacking another AF member is off limits!

This thread is on warning. Personal Attacks = Banned.

Originally posted by Fliquer
I want to make sure we are talking about the same viper here. A stock 2001 Viper GTS will do 60 in less than 4 seconds, has a slalom speed of 72 mph, and will do sub 12 second 1/4 miles on 105 gas. It costs $72k here in america. The cerbera 4.5 costs 45K pounds (i think) which equals about $72k.


well over here the GTS does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, 0-100 in 10.7secs, and tops out at 177. maybe youre times are on slicks? i doubt the cars have different specs (378hp/454lb ft/1293kg) it costs £68,000 over here, wheras the Cerbera 4.5 costs £46,500.

Right, time ones self control kicked in somewhat,

They never tested the caterham seven, it was a booby prize that was expected to come last as a punishment for one of the presenters. As my initial thread stated, it ended up beating the Viper (Which came last) that’s all, nothing more nothing less. The team of very experienced drivers would never be biased at all end of.

You then state that the TVR could not beat the Ferrari and Porsche in 0 – 1 mile test, and various other tests. The car did, like it or not! Sorry if that offends you, and for that I’m sorry if it does.

The caterham is a very inferior car, I never said otherwise. I just said it beat the Viper and it was expected to lose.

Top gear is not biased, again you said that’s my opinion, so probably you’re right. One would hope I would be able to understand when one’s being mislead in any way? I have often thought that they should show a little biased when comparing different vehicles because they seem to do the opposite just to have the appearance of being unbiased. That’s why I have always thought they are not biased.

You keep slating the caterham and that’s good because it is a very poor vehicle. It just beat the Viper that’s all ones saying.

I apologise if I have offended you and your birthplace, Its not your fault where you are born. Again, I apologise for my negativity.

I will finish by stating the fact based on this top gear experiment. The caterham beat the viper in the 0 – 1 mile straight (I’m beginning to wish it had not) and the TVR was the fastest in the test followed by the Porsche. The car that won the super car title was Aston Martin. The car that won the ultimate car title was the BMW M3.

Aston Martin Man (Now fully relaxed)

Well, lets just be happy that the next viper is coming in 2003 and it should cream the old one on the track.

Originally posted by jay@af

Click Here if you never want to read a post by AstonMartin again. (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member2.php?s=&action=addlist&userlist=ignore&userid=34772)

Jay, i am not flaming you, i am serious, but cant this be considered as a personal attack on AstonMartin?

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R
Jay, i am not flaming you, i am serious, but cant this be considered as a personal attack on AstonMartin? I was merely pointing out every member's ability to place people on their (often underused) Ignore Lists (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member2.php?s=&action=viewlist&userlist=ignore). If people were to click that link, all of his posts would simply be hidden from view, with the option to override the feature for any particular post.

IMO, the internet is nothing to get upset about, and to that end people have the option to ignore AstonMartin, or anyone else, they find offensive. (Although, you can't ignore me. :devil: ;))

If you, or anyone else, want to discuss this any more, you're welcome to PM (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=534) me.

OTOH, thank you all for bringing some civility into this thread. :) Much better.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R


well over here the GTS does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, 0-100 in 10.7secs, and tops out at 177. maybe youre times are on slicks? i doubt the cars have different specs (378hp/454lb ft/1293kg) it costs £68,000 over here, wheras the Cerbera 4.5 costs £46,500.

well if thats the version you get then i can understand where the problem with this whole thing is . . .
the GTS we have here is 450 BHP/490 BTQ @ 3460 lbs or 1572.72 kg curb weight and tops out @ 192 MPH, your readings are probably base with no fluids or options. but the power loss i cant account for, its considerable as well . . .
http://www.dodge.com/pdfs/viper.pdf
and i suppose it did get a little bit out of hand, my apologies for that.

Maybe the difference lies in the manufacturers. I know Dodge and Chrysler are essentially the same company, but over here the car is called the Chrysler Viper, not the Dodge Viper. Maybe they are different cars after all.