Always a hard one for me between the R34 GTR and the NSX. Probably easier to tune the R34 but the NSX looks so good and is a good performer. which do you prefer?

R34 GT-R. Cheaper for the amount of performance you get, all-wheel-drive, and sharp looks.

I can see this one getting ugly...

Very different strategies between the two cars. Twin Turbo, Front engined, AWD vs. a n/a V6, Mid engined, RWD.

I understand the tuner appeal of the GT-R, but the NSX really changed the face of the supercar market. The NSX fits my style more so I'll go with that.

for the road, the GT-R. for the track, the NSX.

if it was one over the other, the GT-R. just because i like them more.

RB26 powered NSX an option? If not, probably the NSX anyway.

NSX are amazing track cars, drove one on the highway and it felt like it was, seriously, glued to the road. pure thrill...

never driven a GTR but i would have to say that if i wanted a street monster, i would go with the GTR. much better platform for modifying and AWD keeps traction inline for the street.

the NSX i would take for a dedicated track car or if i just wanted something exotic. really cant go wrong with either, just different cars for different forms of performance.

GTR, not only for the road, but for the street and the track.

Nurburgring times

8:28 --- 145.984 kph -- Nissan Skyline GTR, 277hp
8:33.80 144.336 kph -- Honda NSX (6-speed) Coupe, 276hp

Sweet!

NSX, the engine is in the correct place.

NSX because you'd need a (when new) £100,000 ferrari to beat it
and
nothing else sounds like it

ya know, i was thinking...these 2 cars are always compared but shouldn't be and can't be. they are 2 totally different cars; the only thing similar is that they run similar times in certain events.

there is no doubt that the NSX is the better car but at twice the cost, there shouldn't be a doubt anyways.

the build on these cars are totally different. AWD front engined car vs. a true MR RWD sports car.

i have always thought that the NSX is underpowered for its price epecially beings they are not hand built anymore but it still isnt a valid complaint compared to the next true sports car which would have to come from a european high end brand.

IMO, the skyline in this comparison is more like a muscle car rather than a finessed, fully engineered capable performance car.

so...i will take an early 90's NSX and i will modify it to fix the only "flaw" in this car, that being its power. :D

If you think it's hard to keep a 300ZX running, try keeping an early 90's NSX running...I've heard horror stories. But I guess it really depends how well the previous owner knew the car, and how well they took care of it.

If you think it's hard to keep a 300ZX running, try keeping an early 90's NSX running...I've heard horror stories. But I guess it really depends how well the previous owner knew the car, and how well they took care of it.

trust me...reliabilty isn't even something i consider when buying a performance car to build for performance. i think the 300zx is quite reliable, i just cant keep mine running because i cant stop modifying it long enough to get it on the road. :D

the same would be for my early 90's NSX...

nsx easy. the gt-r is just not an attractive car. why drive something that looks like a 240sx when you can drive something that looks like a ferrari.

why drive something that looks like a 240sx when you can drive something that looks like a ferrari.

If you want something that looks like a Ferrari and isnt overpriced like an NSX, get an MR2 Turbo.

i don't think the NSX is overpriced.
more or less 100% hand built car at £60K-£70K when new sounds more or less spot on.
if the badge on the nose wasn't an H but a little horse on a yellow shield, we'd all think it was cheap.
the problem with the MR2 is that yes, it might be cheaper but that's because it isn't an NSX.

If you want something that looks like a Ferrari and isnt overpriced like an NSX, get an MR2 Turbo.


yea mr2 turbos are badass, they look really good and preform great too.

id have to agree with the badge thing as well. if the nsx had a ferrari badge, people would jump on it for its preformance. it may not be as powerful as a ferrari but its alot cheaper and looks just as good.

well, don't forget that at the time the NSX was first introduced, the equivilant ferrari was the 348 and that was running under 300 bhp as well.
it took an extra 100 bhp in the 355 to actually make a better car but even then, it was debatable whether or not it actually was better than the NSX.

too many people seem to like comparing what is essentially a 10+year old car with something like the 360 and instantly saying the NSX is not good.
of course, i'd have to agree that in today's world, it doesn't make sense to be shelling out £60,000 for a brand new NSX but second hand and at around £20,000-22,000, it's amost a bargain.
put it this way, if it were a £20,000 993 carrera and £20,000 NSX, I'd be very hard pushed to make a choice.
As it stands, the comparison here is GT-R and NSX and for me, the NSX is simply more special.

Now if we were comparing the normal GT-R vs. say an NSX-R...that's a different beast.

http://www.hvkobe.co.jp/site/cgi/voting/carpic2/nsx-r.gif

well, don't forget that at the time the NSX was first introduced, the equivilant ferrari was the 348 and that was running under 300 bhp as well.
it took an extra 100 bhp in the 355 to actually make a better car but even then, it was debatable whether or not it actually was better than the NSX.

too many people seem to like comparing what is essentially a 10+year old car with something like the 360 and instantly saying the NSX is not good.
of course, i'd have to agree that in today's world, it doesn't make sense to be shelling out £60,000 for a brand new NSX but second hand and at around £20,000-22,000, it's amost a bargain.
put it this way, if it were a £20,000 993 carrera and £20,000 NSX, I'd be very hard pushed to make a choice.
As it stands, the comparison here is GT-R and NSX and for me, the NSX is simply more special.

this is a good point and brings into question, why hasn't acura done anything to improve the NSX over the past 15 years to better compete with its rightful competition. i mean, yes it was in fierce competition with ferrari and beating it out but when ferrari upped the ante, i think acura should have fired back too. that is the whole point and now the car is underpowered for its value, especially in the 21st century. cars are making twice as much power and shall i say performing better leaving the buyer with $30k left in his pocket after he walks away from the dealership. yes, the NSX is a special car and it gives the exotic look and prestige without breaking $100k but Honda/Acura could serisously benefit by upping the power into the 350/450hp range. even if it shot the price of the car just over $100k, i think it would sell more than it ever has.

my :2cents:

simple:
the silly japanese agreement of 276 bhp (or whatever PS)
the foriegn market wasn't/isn't that big and nowhere enough to warrent another big cash injection into the car.
there was also internal perference that if they were to do another NSX, it would have to be a brand new car taking things to the next stage again as the NSX did.

i'm notr sure if the NSX is still overpriced.
take into consideration that a 997 carrera costs more or less the same, only has an extra 50 odd bhp and is still not the hand built thing the NSX was. Ok, it's arguably the better car but still.... on terms of build quality, the NSX is right up there.
just don't mention the Cayman S, oh bugger... I just did.

Anyway.
let's just wait for the V8 (if it ever gets the green light) to see what Honda can do.

simple:
the silly japanese agreement of 276 bhp (or whatever PS)
the foriegn market wasn't/isn't that big and nowhere enough to warrent another big cash injection into the car.
there was also internal perference that if they were to do another NSX, it would have to be a brand new car taking things to the next stage again as the NSX did.

i'm notr sure if the NSX is still overpriced.
take into consideration that a 997 carrera costs more or less the same, only has an extra 50 odd bhp and is still not the hand built thing the NSX was. Ok, it's arguably the better car but still.... on terms of build quality, the NSX is right up there.
just don't mention the Cayman S, oh bugger... I just did.

Anyway.
let's just wait for the V8 (if it ever gets the green light) to see what Honda can do.

yes, we will have to see...and the car should be fully re-invented just to add something new but it should stick with its exotic sports car roots but adding a different look and a different motor. honda is doing just as good as it always has and this could be the car to get Honda back into the performance market.

and that japanese agreement rating there cars at a certain PS was blown out the window quite a few years back. i even think Toyota rated the Supra at the actual 320hp it was making back in the mid 90s.

well.... it seems that only honda actually stuck with the 280PS thing.
the Skyline was always known to have more than 276.
the numbers/revs/torque of the R34 more or less proved this back in the day as the car had more torque and could rev higher than the R33.

the facts of honda's skill in making a car is undeniable.
they have the knowledge and the skill to craft cars 100% in aluminium.
they have more than enough experience in making V8s.

now this is conjecture on my part but i can't help thinking that the HSC concept was vetoed mainly because it still looked like a jazzed up NSX, not to mention that it wasn't in keeping with their actual road car design themes.

i think the new civic is a good place to start looking for what kind of details the future car would have.
then again, there's still aonother 2 odd years to go and that's an age.
by then lotus have planned to have sorted their cam-less engines and Honda are bound to be interested in that sort of thing.
i also hve a sneaking suspicion that honda are working on versatile aluminium chassis in the vein of Lotus'.
the sheer number of cars they (honda) sell could make it more viable than you would think.

but then again (again) i've yet to actually see what the new chassis structure of the GT-R concept translates to in real life.
i'd love to see the backbone translate 100% but i can't see it being done, especially if the car is going to remain at the £50,000 mark.

in short, in terms of those two cars, i'm expecting very big things.

I'd pick the NSX any day over the Skyline. It looks so much better, performs so much better, and is the better car. Another thing is that the pre-'02 NSX's have those sexy pop-up headlights.

i dont know why most japaneese automakers limit their cars power potential like they do. i guess whenever they make a great car like the supra or nsx it never sells good, mostly thanks to ignorant american buyers buying something else. they are making better cars but people still have the mindset of buying some detroit iron. if the nsx had power upped tom the 400 range which they could easily do with a turbo and some tuning it would easily outcompete most cars in its pricerange, without increasing the price more than 5k.

the thing with the other makers such as nissan and toyota is that in their home market, the respective cars (GT-R and Supra) hardly ever stayed stock anyway so whatever agreement they had on capping the peak power was more or less redundent. Don't forget that the major companies had tuning company taht they owned 100% (nismo is 100% nissan, mugen is own sochiro honda's son, TRD is 100% toyota).
case in point would be that you could buy from Nissan a brand new GT-R and at the same time, spec the engine to be virtually N1 spec, fresh from factory.
er.. what power capping agreement?

i'm not sure if honda needs to turbo the engine to get 400 from it.
it'd be the cheap way to do it but it's not in their current philosophy.
as i said, they have a whole back catalogue of V8s to work from.
don't forget that ferrari can now squeeze 483 out of 4.3 litres.
what can honda do with say, 3.6 litres or even 4 litres?
admittedly, that 430 is going to be very, very hard to beat in terms of engine development.

the thing with the other makers such as nissan and toyota is that in their home market, the respective cars (GT-R and Supra) hardly ever stayed stock anyway so whatever agreement they had on capping the peak power was more or less redundent. Don't forget that the major companies had tuning company taht they owned 100% (nismo is 100% nissan, mugen is own sochiro honda's son, TRD is 100% toyota).
case in point would be that you could buy from Nissan a brand new GT-R and at the same time, spec the engine to be virtually N1 spec, fresh from factory.
er.. what power capping agreement?

i'm not sure if honda needs to turbo the engine to get 400 from it.
it'd be the cheap way to do it but it's not in their current philosophy.
as i said, they have a whole back catalogue of V8s to work from.
don't forget that ferrari can now squeeze 483 out of 4.3 litres.
what can honda do with say, 3.6 litres or even 4 litres?
admittedly, that 430 is going to be very, very hard to beat in terms of engine development.

agreed in all points...japanese automakers design their cars to be modified with their performance brand. one could even stretch as far to say, that there could be a conspiracy that some japanese companies de-tune their cars from the factory a tad, to make them just that much more desired by the tuning market. someone honestly has to question car makers when some of the motors they build can SAFELY rev an extra 1000rpms and produce more than 30hp with a simple ECU re-flash, especially beings they obviously are not following the 276?ps rule anymore.

and honda going back to turbos, i do not see. especially in the NSX...beings its competition kind of completely did away with turbos. except for maybe porsche using their new smart-turbo design.

i dont know why most japaneese automakers limit their cars power potential like they do. i guess whenever they make a great car like the supra or nsx it never sells good, mostly thanks to ignorant american buyers buying something else. they are making better cars but people still have the mindset of buying some detroit iron.
Hold on a second!
I think the reason why there were problems selling cars like the Supra and NSX was more due to economics then any alleged “ignorance” of American car buyers.
After the first gulf war, the US economy was in a bit of a state and the first rule of thumb is that sales of sports cars can only proliferate in a booming economy.
During recessions, people economise and very impractical cars such as sports car are avoided.
Also during the early 90's there were a greater number of sports sedans available, and thus those who couldn’t afford a sedan and a sports car would economise on a sports sedan.

When the US economy stated to pick up later in the 90's, cars like the Supra and NSX still didn’t sell at as greater volume as anticipated. I think this might have been related to the cost of theses car rising greatly by this time, which might have been related to an increase in the value of the Japanese Yen. I don’t know the cause for certain but cars like the Supra, RX7, 300ZX and NSX just became more expensive in the late 90's. By around 1997/98 the only car out of those said that was still on the US market was the NSX.

As far as the NSX is concerned I wouldn’t expect it to sell in great numbers anyway simply because being hand built they wouldn’t produce them in large quantities.
It’s not as if they had NSXs piling up in the factory yard. They obviously had no trouble selling them.

Also (no offence) but please try and avoid the mindset that people who chose an American brand are making a decision based on ignorance. Japan doesn’t always have something superior to offer against every single US model available, so to have such a point of view would be fundamentally flawed.

Good post, Vettribution. And while I wouldn't think of someone as ignorant just because they only buy American cars, I would hope that they wouldn't think of me as ignorant for buying only Japanese cars. It's not like Japanese cars are always better than every other car on the market, but most of time, they suit my needs best, and I just prefer to have the image of being a Japanese car owner (not to be confused with a ricer; they own all different ethnicities of shit, although admittedly, Civics/Corollas tend to be the most common choices).

there's also the fact that by the late 90s most of those cars were beginning to fall foul of the ever stricter noise/pollution regulations.
the RX-7 and 300zx were dropped in the UK because of noise if i recall correctly.

there's also the fact that by the late 90s most of those cars were beginning to fall foul of the ever stricter noise/pollution regulations.
the RX-7 and 300zx were dropped in the UK because of noise if i recall correctly.
emissions played a huge role in the US among the "Jap Supercars" of the mid 90's. i know for a fact that Nissan had to do some changing with the 300zx in 96', which boosted up the sticker price. Ironically this was the last year the 300zx was sold here stateside but in Japan it continued another 3 years before its final production in 99'. i wouldn't be surprised if this also played a role among other cars which ended production soon after, RX7 among the top.

not to mention the fact that Nissan had to drop VVT in 96' to meet these regulations, which turned one great powerband into a mediocre one.

i don't really know how we got discussing the difference between american and japanese car but anywho:
now-a-days, the American vs. Import debate has almost no relevance, as it seems everyone has a hand in the others pot. Japanese automakers are hvaing their cars built and designed in the US by Americans among other social groups. As for american automakers, you really can't call it Detroit Muscle anymore...Mexico Muscle just doesn't have a ring to it, does it Mustang fans? :D

not to metion the fact brought up earlier that American companies have a rather large hand in Japanese automakers industry.

also, the gas mileage, economy, reliabilty, and value isn't an argument anymore. for every japanese car, there is an american car equaling or bettering it in different areas. one may lack a good interior but gets 7 more mpg. vise-versa. as far as reliability, if you look at some of the charts on magazines, it doesn't really matter where the car came from, there are bad and there are good. nobody would expect Mercedes Benz being towards the bottom of the list but it sure as hell is down there. makes you wonder, how stupid are we as a group of people? we buy cars because of an image or name eventhough it is obviously way overpriced and not that great of build quality.


anyways, back on topic...sort of:

honda/acura is building better cars than it ever has, getting out of the economy car world and stepping up to show they can make one dandy of a refined automobile with its current Acura line, eventhough sales may not be where they want them. so...may i say, that if the new NSX gets the green light, i expect very large things from this car and i would be dissappointed if it did not smoke cars costing twice to three times as much.

i'm almost 100% that the car has been given the go ahead as honda engineers are rumoured to have been assigned to a supercar project already but i can't confirm this.

previously, the project got held up and caught up in the whole debacle about entering the F1 at around 2000. When they pulled out of the project, the supercar also got shunted as the whole question of what place does Honda have for a car of that type inevitably comes up; have a look at what happend last year when the S2000, NSX, Accord Type-R were all pulled from future production lines as well as the Civic Type-r being a shaky prospect; just because toyota bought into F1 and it looked difficult for Honda to enter a full works team.

it's a shame that they're not doing too well in F1 because that would defintely make it easier for them to justify spending (more) money on the new car as they did first time around.
after all, they're doing a lot better in this year's JGTC so far (currently leading the points board) as well, with NSXs coming in the top three and making at least a 10 second lead until the next car (although a honda NOT winning at Suzuka always makes me a little annoyed...)
With that in mind, going back to the engine.
The JGTC V6 in the NSX are at 3.5 litres and run at 500PS and 60kg/m and revs like crazy... no surprises there but it goes to show how much stress the engine can take.
i'm pretty sure it could confortably run at 400 bhp in a lower state of tune; there's just something very "sexy" about a 3.5 litre V6 making 400bhp....
Of course, I'd also love to see a full-on Mugen VTEC V8.
Imagine the sound it would make.

in case you haven't figured it, I am a very big fan of the NSX and I can lament about it forever so here's four reasons why the NSX is for me.

Gordon Murray used it as a reference when designing the F1.
Porsche used it when doing the chassis set-up for the 996.
It gave Ferrari a kick up the back-side in the 90s.
The last Type-R version with that 276BHP matched the time of the 360CS (and its 420BHP) around the Nordschleif.

in case you haven't figured it, I am a very big fan of the NSX and I can lament about it forever so here's four reasons why the NSX is for me.

yeah, i think i may have gotten the hint. :D it is a truly great car...i have seen quite a few very nice ones the last couple of days. one of them was at a car show and had a full ferrari rear end conversion done. kind of a disgrace but eh...whatever.

needless to say, i will have a hard time deciding in a couple years on whether to get a Laguna Blue E46 M3 or a early 90's NSX in just about any color but yellow.

for me, the choices are between an as god as new 308GTB with fibre glass body and normal chin, 993 carrera or NSX; all of which sit comfortably at around £20,000.
I get a feeling that these current prices are going to pretty much remain stable (except the ferrari) whereas the M3 will get cheaper with each regular new generation. I mean, take a look at how the new 3 series has already hit the prices of E46s on the second hand market.

Of the three, one will be a major headache all year around, one will be faultless but anything will cost a bomb, one will be as easy to take care of as an accord with no unknown costs and relatively cheap maintenance (aside from the service, tyres, and clutch/flywheel unit).

I once toyed with the idea of getting myself an elise and using as a daily car, especially seeing as they are now getting near the £12,000 mark for an S1 but I can't shake the feeling that these cars make more sense both in terms of what I can do with it and what I'll get out of it. Having to slow down to wipe a misty windscreen isn't my idea of fun.

And for me, NSX can only come in one colour: HONDA racing white..... And the badge has to be red.

Hold on a second!
I think the reason why there were problems selling cars like the Supra and NSX was more due to economics then any alleged “ignorance” of American car buyers.
After the first gulf war, the US economy was in a bit of a state and the first rule of thumb is that sales of sports cars can only proliferate in a booming economy.
During recessions, people economise and very impractical cars such as sports car are avoided.
Also during the early 90's there were a greater number of sports sedans available, and thus those who couldn’t afford a sedan and a sports car would economise on a sports sedan.

When the US economy stated to pick up later in the 90's, cars like the Supra and NSX still didn’t sell at as greater volume as anticipated. I think this might have been related to the cost of theses car rising greatly by this time, which might have been related to an increase in the value of the Japanese Yen. I don’t know the cause for certain but cars like the Supra, RX7, 300ZX and NSX just became more expensive in the late 90's. By around 1997/98 the only car out of those said that was still on the US market was the NSX.

As far as the NSX is concerned I wouldn’t expect it to sell in great numbers anyway simply because being hand built they wouldn’t produce them in large quantities.
It’s not as if they had NSXs piling up in the factory yard. They obviously had no trouble selling them.

Also (no offence) but please try and avoid the mindset that people who chose an American brand are making a decision based on ignorance. Japan doesn’t always have something superior to offer against every single US model available, so to have such a point of view would be fundamentally flawed.


yea, i see what u are saying, i dont want to sound like a domestic car basher and i definitley dont think that all american cars are inferior. im just saying that in the 90s many japanesse cars that were better cars got rooted out because people wanted an american v8. i know this is not true today with americas growing market for japanese cars but 10 years ago they were overlooked. this resulted in the death of the best era for japanese cars, the 90s. all these great cars like the supra, 300zx, and rx7 were all rooted out even though they were better than alot of american cars being made then. granted they were a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for. really the only domestic cars i would like to own from the 90s is a z28/trans am or a corvette.

i was just ranting so excuse me if i sounded ignorant.

yea, i see what u are saying, i dont want to sound like a domestic car basher and i definitley dont think that all american cars are inferior. im just saying that in the 90s many japanesse cars that were better cars got rooted out because people wanted an american v8. i know this is not true today with americas growing market for japanese cars but 10 years ago they were overlooked. this resulted in the death of the best era for japanese cars, the 90s. all these great cars like the supra, 300zx, and rx7 were all rooted out even though they were better than alot of american cars being made then. granted they were a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for. really the only domestic cars i would like to own from the 90s is a z28/trans am or a corvette.

i was just ranting so excuse me if i sounded ignorant.
No worries. Apology accepted :)
Guys like us on theses car forums get very passionate about our automotive preferences and as such tend to inadvertently offend or overreacted at times. Me especially.

However, I am pretty sure that the problems that made the selling of those Japanese sports cars unviable in the US were not so much the attitude of the buying public as economics and government regulations (ie emissions, noise, ect. As mentioned previously).


:yugosmili <I don’t use this smilie enough. :p

Those brand new NSX-R's sure look but I still cant decide the NSX certainly looks the best though