98 Ply. Voyager - 3.3 L. V6

*Intermittent* Start Prob - 1 (one) click, but starter does not engage. Click seems to emanate from under vehicle, perhaps from the area of the starter, but not sure.

Checked main starter relay under hood; tried swapping with same from another function, no help.

Does it both in P and in N (w/ brake on).

Seems it *might* be ambiant temp related, not sure.

Usually will work fine after 3-4 attempts, but last week it took at least 20-25 tries. Has since been working w/ 3-4. Well, until I just went to try it again and it took 15-20 for 1st start, and then it'd work say 1 out of 6-7 tries. This has been an +85* day.

Definitely intermittent, so sometimes it cranks right up.

Is this more likely to be one to the several relays (tranny gear selection, brake pedal depressed, other) or the starter solenoid?

TIA,

S Coleman

Sounds like the solenoid to me. In case you didn't know, the solenoid contains the final contact switch for the starter. The solenoid pushs a contact plate into two open contacts that completes the circuit that supplies electric power to the starter. Over time, the contacts become corroded from the arcing of each connect and disconnect.

Pull your starter and have it bench tested at an autoparts store. This will give you the conclusive diagnosis.

Definately the starter contacts, change the starter or replace the contacts in the starter yourself.

[ Note: This is in response to more than one reply, on more than one site, so if reference is made to something not in this thread that's why. ]

First, thanks a bunch for the helpful tips.

I've checked and althought they really didn't need it, I cleaned up the battery posts; no help. Haven't gotten to the grounding tabs, etc. yet. Visually they don't appear an issue, but will check as I go.

I'm pretty sure at this point that it's likely the solenoid contacts, or a bad starter? Advance Auto says they can do a check that will confirm which? For a cursory DIY check of the contacts, would rapping it with a hammer while it's 'engaged' by someone holding the key to 'start' be an indication of contact issues?

I've got it up on stands where I can access the starter pretty well. It almost looks too easy to get too.... http://www.jonko.com/auto_repair_forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

First, can someone tell me, before I drag out too many tools, does this puppy use Metric or SAE bolts, I thought SAE, but have noticed that there are definitley some 10 mm stuff top side in the engine bay.

As for removing the starter, are there any caveats, or things to be aware of that will impede it's removal / reinstallation? There's a large wiring bumdle directly underneath, but appears it'll move out of the way albeit reluctant. Anything else needing to be moved, removed?

From what I can see / feel and from the pics on the Advance Auto site there appears to be only TWO bolts holding it on, and one fixed locating pin. There is a mounting bracket of some sort right next to the upper bolt, but doesn't appear to be involved, is that right? The Neg. wire is to stud underneath and Pos. to stud on top. Starter 12v. ign. wire (I'm assuming that's the only small wire to solenoid / starter) connects next to Neg. post. AM I on track here?

The best deal price wise at Advance Auto is this item, which has a caveat about connector layouts:

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail....ype=123&ptset=A (http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=WWA&mfrpartnumber=17012&parttype=123&ptset=A)

I'm assuning the best bet is to take the old unit in and just compare right there, if they have on stock. Thought they'd be off today, but just spoke w/ the guy there and he says they can test and they do stock the cheaper unit; note it is life-time guaranteed, which some of the higer priced units aren't, obviuosly a trade off on initial cost vs ones time, but hey after once it's easier, right? Also, this vehicle gets mininal useage, for now. But I may turn it into my race car hauler (small car, a Miata) with trips of mostly 90 mi. and maybe some up to 300 mi.

The other question, is if it's the solenoid, they make a repair kit:

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail....ype=618&ptset=A (http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=VLP&mfrpartnumber=ND34SOL&parttype=618&ptset=A)

I'm not afraid to tackle this repair, unless it's got some steps that you folks think would be a real PITA. Any thoughts on that?

Again thanks for all your input, and I'm waiting to hear back to proceed much further.

Steve

When you did the battery posts did you clean the inside of the battery connectors also ? I found that you can get a high resistance film buldup adn cause these types of problems . Also might want to pull the battery connectors and go after the connectors on the starter also and clean those up , if problem persists then maybe a new starter is in order .

When you did the battery posts did you clean the inside of the battery connectors also ? I found that you can get a high resistance film buldup adn cause these types of problems . Also might want to pull the battery connectors and go after the connectors on the starter also and clean those up, if problem persists then maybe a new starter is in order .
To bring you up to date [ as posted to another site ], here's what I've done today and it doesn't appear to be a wiring contact issue. Yes I did the inside of the connectors, but they really didn't need it; my wife reminded me I'd done them not too long back and they were already nice and shiney:

I've got the starter out. Easier than I thought, as what I thought was the Pos. connection on top was the Pos. link between the solenoid and the starter (all I could feel was a rubber shrouded connection, and assumed there was a wire there). And of course, what I *thought* was a Neg. connection to the solenoid was actually the Pos. from the battery. Ground is obviously through the case. Sure made things easier.

I'll probably take it to Advance for their free check, but I was wondering why one couldn't do a DIY check by putting juice directly to the starter (at the above mentioned connection btw. solenoid and starter) using jumper cables. If it worked, then odds are the solenoid is the culprit, right? [ see below UpDate ]

If it's the solenoid, then I'm inclined to do the rebuild myself with Advance's kit. What's your take on how hard that will be, I'm thinking it's easy, but I have a way of gitting mesef bit in the fanny. Any caveats, pointers? Take a look at the link below and see if their kit looks like it's got all the right stuff, appears like it to me. (That's if it works from here, one forum I posted it to 'truncated' it and won't work for some reason... aarrggghhh!!!)

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=VLP&mfrpartnumber=ND34SOL&parttype=618&ptset=A


[ UpDate 9:30pm: Just came back from Advance. That was a bust, the guy I spoke with wasn't there and the one who was hooked it up to their machine, but only such that it emulated being in the car, i.e. it didn't bypass the solenoid. He hits the 'start' switch and it doesn't work 4 out of 5 times. He says your starter is bad. So, I asked if it's the solenoid or the starter. He repeats the starter is bad. I ask if he could bypass the solenoid to determine if the solenoid was the issue, and he said no way, they couldn't do that, company didn't allow it, etc. So I came home got out the jumper cables, went down to the van, hooked up three of the cables, stood on the starter, and touched the positive cable to the post off the starter... whrrrrr... once more.... whrrrr... the sucker spins like a champ, but of course doesn't 'kick in' because the solenoid isn't energized. So, it seems to me that's a pretty good indication that the starter is fine, but the solenoid needs work on the contacts or plunger, which comes in the kit. What say you? ]

Anyone's thoughts from this forum is welcome, and thanks for all of the info so far.

Thanks,

Steve

You like to make a simple project more difficult than it has to be.
Go buy a new starter at the dealer, or go buy a rebuilt one at the auto parts store and install it already.
You can keep your old starter and buy a repair kit, then you will have a spare when the rebuilt goes bad.

You like to make a simple project more difficult than it has to be.
Go buy a new starter at the dealer, or go buy a rebuilt one at the auto parts store and install it already.
You can keep your old starter and buy a repair kit, then you will have a spare when the rebuilt goes bad.

Bernard,

You make a good point. I will consider it, however money is an issue and the van only has 75K on it. And as I may have noted it doesn't get many miles put on it, plus being a pack rat I've got way more stuff around than I need anyway.... ;)

It's been suggested that my OEM old starter which appears to be ok, just needs the solenoid fixed, is very likely to be more reliable than an unknown rebuilt unit. And I definitely can't afford a dealer's price, so a rebuilt is the only thing within our budget.

Thanks for the advice and help,

Steve

Hi all,

I don't think there's any doubt about the underlying problem with this unit now:

The pics don't lie.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gid10511197

So, off to order up the $13 solenoid kit. Yeah, I started to just emory them boys up, but came to my senses... in a pinch however, w/o a kit that'd work.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Steve

you made your point, however, you already had the starter out , I would have replaced the unit, now when the starter goes you can start all over again.....

you made your point, however, you already had the starter out , I would have replaced the unit, now when the starter goes you can start all over again.....

Yeah, but I'll be able to do it in about 15 mins. next time.

FWIW, another rather wise gear head suggested that the OEM starter motor was probably better to keep and have the solenoid and / or starter rebuilt at a local shop that getting one of unknown origin rebuilt by a min. wage flunky... the more I thought about it the more I tended to agree, soes I'm gonna do that only leave out the middle man on account of how easy it is to replace the offending parts in the solenoid, and as I said this vehicle isn't getting a lot of use for now.

Your point is however well taken.

Thanks for your interest in the problem,

Steve

I've the identical van as you.
Check out the last post on this link:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4108805&posted=1

Discount tire says it's very hard to come by a new starter,
so I let them put in a reconditioned one.

I've the identical van as you.
Check out the last post on this link:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4108805&posted=1

Discount tire says it's very hard to come by a new starter,
so I let them put in a reconditioned one.

As soon as the $13 solenoid rebuild kit gets here tomorrow I'll have that puppie back up and running in about 45 mins.

The above thread was interesting, I'm curious as to what caused the 'fire' in the starter. It seems to me his problem was the same as mine, corroded solenoid contacts, but could of course been the starter motor itself.

Thanks for your interest,

Steve