'87 Civic Si ECU LEDs 1 & 8

Purley stock '87 Civic Si has been running well...237,000 miles. Recently began hard-starting when warm and PGM-FI warning now lights along with LEDs 1 and 8 on ECU. Using AutoZone on-line repair manual, checked chart for appropriate trouble shooting...crank angle sensor tests good. Replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor. Runs, but idle is a bit sloppy and smelly..like a rich mix. Have had problems with sunroof drains leaking onto passenger side floor, so I pulled seat to check ECU for invasive corrosion. Plenty on the surfaces, but connections seem clean. Bottom line: warning light, sloppy idle, LEDs 1 & 8 still a problem. Any suggestions? Thanks..from a New England Si daily driver.

Impressive mileage,Honda should be proud.

Yeah...I certainly can't complain. And, since it still gets 35+ warm weather mpg when it's running right, I really want to keep it going as long as possible. Never thought I 'd see the day when it would cost over 30 bucks to fill up a Honda!

Sounds like a bad O2 sensor to me.

Code 1 is for the O2 sensor, code 8 is for the crank angle sensor which is located in the distributor. On a car of this age with so many miles on it, I'm suprised these parts didn't go bad sooner.

Click this link for more info:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=236249&page=1&pp=15

Thanks, lxndr...I think I'll give that a try. Although the crank angle sensor seems to test okay, it looks like that should be the next thing I replace. But last tiime I checked, that meant changing the whole distributor. Still true?

Yeah...I certainly can't complain. And, since it still gets 35+ warm weather mpg when it's running right, I really want to keep it going as long as possible. Never thought I 'd see the day when it would cost over 30 bucks to fill up a Honda!
Yep,worth preserving.Too much unnessessary gadgetry on modern cars for me so I'll stick with the Civics.I just spent many hours restoring the underside of mine.Over the worst of it,now ready for the welder.Was nice to drive it again after having it stuck in the workshop for weeks.
Found an interesting article from a 1988 "Autocar" mag.A trial between Civic,205GTI,Renault 5 Turbo,Suzuki Swift,Uno Turbo and Austin Metro Turbo.(Very poor UK hatch,now totally extinct.)The two French cars were most popular but when you look at the equasion now the Honda is the most durable.All the other contenders are gone apart from a few loved 205GTI's,I've had a few of these and i could not have as a daily runner.They run like a dog when cold so not cheap to run.Were these cars available in the USA?Hopefully we did not inflict the Metro on you...
Quote from mag..."an honourable mention to the Honda,roomy,practical,economical,almost certainly the cheapest to own,if not as much outright fun to drive".

Interesting info. Hadn't heard about that comparison before. Speaking of welding, rust around the edges is just now becoming problem. Some spots on the undercarriage, too. Is that what you had to repair, too? Biggest body complaint right now is water leaking in through what I think are the drains coming down from the sunroof. It appears to come in under the dashboard in both corners. Anyone know if this is an accurate assumption on the '87 Civic Si? Is there anyway to stop the leaks short of plugging the drains from the top? And, by the way, the weatherstrip around the roof glass has seen better days, too. But, I haven't been able to find a replacement.

Sounds like a familiar story...Hate to be the bringer of doom but your leak symptoms is the same as mine.I wondered/hoped it was a blocked or split sunroof pipe when I noticed a damp carpet, but after pulling up the underlay matting high in the corners found the dreaded rot.
The problem starts under the front wheelarches where the plastic splash guard clips around the inner wing/engine compartment panel join.20 or so years of road debris collects here which results in rust holes and water entering the passenger compartment.As if this is not tragic enough the water collects under the sound deadeners on the floorpans which then leads to corrosion where the end of the torsion bars fix to body which is obviously not good:nono: .
The good news is that the whole front end is held together by 10 mm bolts and comes apart real easy though be a good idea to jetwash under arches first and lube all fixings in advance.
I've ground/cut all the rotton bits out,treated the bare metal ready for welding,welded up and then some good protection.I was unlucky with my Si,it was driven up a muddy track 6 days a week since 1994 but was still sound enough for a good repair.
I also found corrosion at front of inner wings where the air intake runs so 2 more plates required there.I've also put plates above torsion bars and sealed from below.Carpet really needs to come out for this but at least you can check/protect the rest of the floor.
Go on,get it sorted and see if you can get 300k out of the old girl,you'll miss it when it's gone!
Re.Sunroof gasket.I've heard if no new gasket available you can inject the hollow rubber with silicone which helps to make seal with the glass.sounds messy so cover your seats...

Thanks for those tips. I'll be checking those spots. I was thinking it was the sunroof drains because the leaks happen even when the car is sitting still. Actually, it's kind of weird. :screwy: If I park with the nose facing uphill when it raining, it almost never leaks. But, if it's parked on level ground or with the nose downhill, it always leaks. A light rain doesn't cause a problem, but a heavy rain..like today :crying:.. comes gushing in. I know what you mean about the undercarriage. Last year I spent a week during a New England January under the Si replacing the fuel pump and the rusted lines to it. That's when I noticed the spots of rot blossoming in a few places.

hmm,you could temporarily seal up the sunroof with tape and see wheather the car stops filling up to give you a clue...

Great idea! I'll give that a try. Thanks. If it does turn out to be the sunroof drains, how do I track those down? Pull the fenders to get access?

Hey, lxndr...put in a new oxygen sensor. Looks like someone did a chop job on the old one. I found 3 splices in the wire from sensor to harness. Reduced that to one with new unit. #1 LED on the ECU is now dark, but #8...crank angle sensor...still lights. Disconnected both battery neg and #10 fuse to erase problem code, but it still lights. It's definitely idling smoother, so I'm taking it for a short spin to see what happens. Thanks for your help.

the pipes run down the pillars and kick out at top of inner wing,if bunged up some wire may pick debris out then some (careful) air line use.
Not a leaky screen is it?You can test that by taping it up too...
mix some (weak )bright coloured water based paint with some water to tip on test areas to help you find problem...

I have a CRX SI and my sunroof drain tubes sometimes popped out of the rubber elbow that diverts water out of the car. On a CRX the water drains towards the rear of the car, and I always knew if one of the tubes had popped off because the spare tire area would fill with water.

Your sunroof problem could be as simple as the problem I had, which can be easily remedied with a single zip-tie.

Thanks for the tips, folks. I'll be checking them out during the holiday tomorrow..after I get home from work.

Now back to the ECU trouble lights. Hey lxndr, new oxy sensor cured one problem. Runs smooth with no trouble light until fast idle drops down. Then it runs raggedly and #8 lights up again. Looks like crank angle sensor is the culprit now, but nobody lists it as a part separately. Repair manual suggests that replacing the whole distributor is the only fix. Honda price: $600. Jobber price: $307. Anybody know of any other options? Thanks.

Check Ebay to see if one pops up, check your local junk yards, or check out www.redpepperracing.com to see if someone has a good used distributor for sale.

I recently sold my distributor off my old EW motor for $25, expect to pay $25-$40 for a used one.

Thanks, lxandr...I'll check redpepper. Local junkyards were a bust.

Thanks, lxandr

Ah, close enough. :)

It's actually "lxndr" which is just my name (Alexander) without the vowels.

Anyway, I'm glad to help.

Whoops...sorry about that. I did find several possible hits at redpepperracing, but it seems like the distributors go pretty quickly. Waiting for replies. Thanks again!

Looks like the '86 '87 Civic/CRX Si distributors...I see them call them dizzys over on redpepper..new to me...are hard to come by. They get snapped up fast. Used prices elsewhere seem to range from about $100 to about $225. New prices from $800 (Honda list) :screwy: to about $300 with core exchange through Car Quest jobber.

Thanks to a used parts place out in northern Cal. and a supplier down in Tenn., I found a used distributor that should get this Conn. Si be back in shape soon. Hondanation.

Here's the final chapter (I hope) in this saga. Turned out that Tennessee supplier send the wrong distributor. Not even close. It took a couple more weeks for the used parts guy (actually located in TX) to locate one in Jacksonville, NC. Received it this week. Installed it Friday. LEDs went dark, engine starts well, good power, pickup. Still a slightly rough idle when warm which gets a bit rougher when power brakes are applied. Vacuum leak in the booster maybe? Anyway, orginal problem indicated by LED's...bad oxygen sensor and bad crank angle sensor (in distributor)...cured by replacing both.

Ok..so that wasn't the final chapter. Several days later, with no problems, the darn dashboard trouble light stayed on before the car even cranked over. It runs, but wants to stall after it warms up. Throttle angle sensor or dashpot seem to be screwed up, but the ECM showed no LED trouble codes. And, there was a suspicious smell. Long story short, I found a huge mouse nest, crafted out of insulation taken from the inside firewall pad, inside the cowling! The stuff would blow into the car every time I opened the air vents. Then, a couple days later, a mouse wedged itself inside the driver's side air vent and, of course, died there. So, I'm thinking there's a family under the dash somewhere stripping Si wiring for its nest. I'm tearing it all apart. Anybody disassemble a dash? Is it possible to take it down to the firewall? Thanks for any ideas.

Yes it's possible to take the whole dash out. It's actually relatively simple since there are only about 6 bolts/screws holding the dash in, but there are several wiring connectors to keep track of. It should take about 30 minutes to liberate the dash, but time really depends on how well you work while standing on your head.

Oh, don't forget the screw under a cover in the top center of the dash up against the windshield.

Thanks for the tips Tomorrow's project.

Well, can't find any damage from mice inside the dash. Yet I'm still getting a very low, rough idle after it warms up (around 300-400 rpm) and PGM-FI light stays lit. No LEDs show on ECM. Resistance values show okay on replacement distributor crank angle sensor and throttle angle sensor. MAP sensor connections all seem solid. Any ideas out there? Much appreciated.