Is a Bigger oil filter Useful?


nfoss
03-09-2006, 01:33 PM
I've read about a couple of people putting in larger-than-needed oil filters on their GPs. Why do some people do this - what's the benefit?

ern2112
03-09-2006, 01:36 PM
I've read about a couple of people putting in larger-than-needed oil filters on their GPs. Why do some people do this - what's the benefit?


LOL....yeah....I have one of those "oversized" oil filters myself....mobile one extend life filter......you cant even hardly see the difference between that and the AC delco!! I just use it because I run the mobile one 15k syn oil. Do not believe it makes any differance in my case whatsover.

richtazz
03-09-2006, 01:43 PM
There is absolutely NO reason to put a longer filter on. There are actually some vehicles that a longer filter causes dry start problems because the additional oil retained in the filter overcomes the surface tension and the oil drains back. If your filter is mounted vertically, and the filter won't hang down too far where it could get hit by anything, it won't "hurt" anything, but there is no advantage either. If your filter mounts horizontally or at an angle greater than 45 degrees, stay with the factory filter.

BNaylor
03-09-2006, 02:09 PM
IMO a waste of money. For the same cost you can get a K&N Performance Gold Oil Filter. That is all I use now.

nfoss
03-09-2006, 02:12 PM
OK that's what I thought - a performance oil filter, though, I would be interested in. Right now I use Fram 3387A oil filters.

ern2112
03-09-2006, 02:13 PM
Hummm..may have to try that K&N Bob.....same price as the M1 if I recall

BNaylor
03-09-2006, 02:16 PM
OK that's what I thought - a performance oil filter, though, I would be interested in. Right now I use Fram 3387A oil filters.

K&N makes two types of Performance Gold direct replacement (short) and long. Short is the one I use. Cost around $10.99.

BNaylor
03-09-2006, 02:35 PM
K&N makes two types of Performance Gold direct replacement (short) and long. Short is the one I use. Cost around $10.99.

Forgot to mention the K&N oil filter number is HP-1001.

BTW - Removal is easy on K&Ns. It has a 1 nut at the top of the filter canister.

Langning
03-09-2006, 03:14 PM
IMO a waste of money. For the same cost you can get a K&N Performance Gold Oil Filter. That is all I use now.

I used the larger 3970 (?? or whatever the # is) instead of the smaller #3387A oil filter. I buy the cheapest brand - Super Tech - at Walmart and they are of same price at $2.07/ea.

Because I change my oil/filter religiously at 3000-3500 miles interval, I doublt the brand quality or filter size make a difference to my car.

richtazz
03-09-2006, 03:26 PM
cut one of those cheapo filters in half, and you'll never use another one. You might as well filter your oil through an old sock.

ern2112
03-09-2006, 03:28 PM
I used the larger 3970 (?? or whatever the # is) instead of the smaller #3387A oil filter. I buy the cheapest brand - Super Tech - at Walmart and they are of same price at $2.07/ea.

Because I change my oil/filter religiously at 3000-3500 miles interval, I doublt the brand quality or filter size make a difference to my car.


One reservation I would have here is whether or not there is a diaphram in the filter to help keep oil in the top of the motor....thus helping prevent dry starts. You can look and see if it is there or not....it is by where to filter screws in...look inside the filter holes....should be a black piece of rubber there covering the in/outs.

BNaylor
03-09-2006, 03:36 PM
cut one of those cheapo filters in half, and you'll never use another one. You might as well filter your oil through an old sock.

Yeah, thats true Rich and I agree. Someone on the forum opened up a Fram and didn't have much good to say about that brand. I can imagine Walmart or Lube n Go el cheapo generic stuff. I don't take any chances and go with the good name brand stuff. Can't afford to blow my motor at a race just because I wanted to be cheap. But to each his/her own.

However, like everyone else I shop at Walmart to get consumable items like bulk name brand tranny ATF fluid and motor oil. Also, they have the best prices on the Autolite copper core spark plugs we modded guys use.

BTW - The K&N oil filter was developed for a racing engine so you cant go wrong with one in the daily commuter. I luv that 1" nut on top.

ern2112
03-09-2006, 03:42 PM
I luv that 1" nut on top.


Yeah....like that too. Think I will try one next time. Makes it easy to get out. I finally learned to turn my wheel all the way to the right.....makes the whole process painless. 10-15 minutes man......and I am done with the change.

richtazz
03-09-2006, 04:15 PM
The K&N's are made with a thicker steel outer shell and a better o-ring than even teh oem AC-Delco which can withstand higher pressure than a stock filter, another plus if you run high R's while racing.

jimmyv-21
03-09-2006, 05:04 PM
now i am scared....

guess i better start taking the bus until i can get the fram off...

lol just kidding...i use the k&n but i cant afford the mobil 1 synthetic so i put the mobil 1 6000 mile, and i change to less than every 3000. since i dont race it should be alright.

ern2112
03-09-2006, 05:41 PM
Man...if I told you guys how I ran my oil...you would think I was nuts. Been doing it the same way now 188,000 miles......I will just say this. If you use good synthetic oil and good filters......3000 mile change is just not needed less you live on a dirt road...drive in the city all of the time....or just run the ever loving s%^&T outta your car all the time.

I am 95% highway (850-900 miles a week) so I let it rip and get my moneys worth so to speak :)

MT-2500
03-09-2006, 05:55 PM
I've read about a couple of people putting in larger-than-needed oil filters on their GPs. Why do some people do this - what's the benefit?

Well bigger is not always better.:grinyes: :lol:
Here is a link you may find interesting.
MT
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

StevePT
03-09-2006, 06:47 PM
I've cut open the following filter brands:

Fram
Purolator (Std and Pure One)
Wix
Fleetguard
K&N
STP
NAPA
And a few other odd-balls

The conclusion was this:

The only difference between oil filters is whether it has a coil spring or a leaf spring to put pressure on the bottom side of the filter can, the number of filter media pleats and the end cap material for the filter can.

As far as I can tell everyone out there besides Fram uses metal caps to hold the filter media together. The Frams use cardboard about the thickness of a cereal box. I'm not kidding. I will never let a Fram product near any vehicle I service.

As far as most of the other filters out there you'll find that most of them are made by one manufacturer and someone else puts their name on it.

I personally use Purolator Pure One's on my GP and Wix or Fleetguard on everything else. The Pure One has dense filter media, a lot of pleats and an anti-drainback seal. They are usually about $5-6.

Also, regarding oil change intervals, like ern said, unless you're driving dirt roads all day long or stop and go in the city, you should be letting your oil go at least 5K miles. I personally run Mobil 1 10W-30 and let it go about 7,500 miles.

richtazz
03-10-2006, 07:11 AM
yep, most manufacturers have backed off the 3k interval, because it's overkill.

wlkjr
03-10-2006, 07:46 AM
OK that's what I thought - a performance oil filter, though, I would be interested in. Right now I use Fram 3387A oil filters.

I too use the Fram and have for the last probably 150,000 miles. I changed from the AC primarily because the Fram has the grippy end and is so much easier to remove. I've read many negative posts about Frams but have used them on many of the family cars I service. I've never had any problems with them, but it may be due to the fact that we don't abuse them or drive them hard. I change oil every 5000 miles with Havoline 10W30 and my commute is 50 miles one way, so I change about every 8-10 weeks. I have done about 4 oil analyses and the Havoline proves out to be a very good oil. I've had good results with this procedure so I see no need to change as it works for me. On my Duramax I use a Purolator filter and Chevron Delo 15W40 oil.
It does amuse me that someone would use a more expensive filter and then buy store brand oil. I frequent the Bobistheoilguy forum and I get absolutely tickled at how many people rant about different oils and try to formulate their own concoctions. It can be very entertaining.

BNaylor
03-10-2006, 08:00 AM
Mea culpa! I'm guilty of using a Fram oil filter too on my wife's Regal. However, it is the next one up, the Tough Guard not the Extra Guard. On sale...lol. :lol:

Here is an interesting read on air filters. Test was done on a vehicle with a GM DuraMax diesel but has interesting, not so good data on K&N air filters. The OEM AC Delco paper element proved the best.

http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

richtazz
03-10-2006, 04:13 PM
That was a VERY interesting read Bob, and exactly the reason I haven't switched to a "high-flow" air filter. I believe cold air intakes work because it straightens the air flow and you're not going through the factory sound deadening twists and turns, but then again it may be a subjective improvement. You can hear the intake, so it "seems" that you're going faster. I've heard that installing a K&N filter in a Duramax truck will void your warranty, but I have no facts to back it, just something I heard.

Mt2500, that oil filter write up was interesting as well. I like the fact that he divided hard fact and subjective opinion.

bearinns08
03-10-2006, 05:20 PM
I finally learned to turn my wheel all the way to the right.....makes the whole process painless. 10-15 minutes man......and I am done with the change.


How much room does this give you, b/c I do my oil every 3000 and ive always just taken the tire all the way off. Wonder if it would just save time w/o being much more of a hassle to try to turn the wheel instead. Im just wondering, b/c although taking the tire off take all of 2 minutes, it does give you direct access to the filter. ('97 gtp just to make sure if theres any differences in filter mounting)

ern2112
03-10-2006, 05:43 PM
How much room does this give you, b/c I do my oil every 3000 and ive always just taken the tire all the way off. Wonder if it would just save time w/o being much more of a hassle to try to turn the wheel instead. Im just wondering, b/c although taking the tire off take all of 2 minutes, it does give you direct access to the filter. ('97 gtp just to make sure if theres any differences in filter mounting)


Oh my...it makes it easy.....try it. You will never pull the wheel agian!! By the way...one trick to getting this done easily is not over tightening the filter. This is the reason I refuse to let any oil place do my oil changes...w/o fail....they will over tighten the oil pan drain plug and the filter. Pi$$es me off!!!

nfoss
03-11-2006, 01:57 AM
Excellent posted articles, guys, thanks for the read.

I drive my GP on to two little wooden blocks when I do my oil change, and turn my wheel all the way to the right. I can reach the oil filter, and fit my oil pan underneath my car.

I've been taught from childhood to maintain the heck out of my cars, & change the oil every 3k. While I drive mainly paved roads & highway (who takes their GP off-road anyway?), I'd feel weird switching to a 5k oil-change schedule...

BNaylor
03-11-2006, 08:45 AM
That was a VERY interesting read Bob, and exactly the reason I haven't switched to a "high-flow" air filter. I believe cold air intakes work because it straightens the air flow and you're not going through the factory sound deadening twists and turns, but then again it may be a subjective improvement. You can hear the intake, so it "seems" that you're going faster. I've heard that installing a K&N filter in a Duramax truck will void your warranty, but I have no facts to back it, just something I heard.

Mt2500, that oil filter write up was interesting as well. I like the fact that he divided hard fact and subjective opinion.

Yeah Rich, it makes you wonder and it is good food for thought but even these so called independent tests have to be taken with a grain of salt too. What are the conditions applicable to a real world environment. If Underwriter Labs, Popular Mechanics or Consumer Reports reported similar results we'd probably take the test results more seriously.

In the issue of intakes such as CAI/FWI, people that have them are basically stuck with K&N style cone filters. They do deliver more total air flow compared to stock. For example on an L67 a CAI/FWI helps reduce knock retard. Any real horsepower increase as claimed could be debatable. However, in my case I would rather have one installed then not.

On aftermarket parts voiding warranties the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act puts the burden on the manufacturer of the vehicle to prove the part will or has damaged the engine.

In the end, it will be down to our own subjective beliefs, experiences and budget as to which oil filter or air filter works best for you.

wlkjr
03-11-2006, 10:22 AM
Excellent posted articles, guys, thanks for the read.

I drive my GP on to two little wooden blocks when I do my oil change, and turn my wheel all the way to the right. I can reach the oil filter, and fit my oil pan underneath my car.

I've been taught from childhood to maintain the heck out of my cars, & change the oil every 3k. While I drive mainly paved roads & highway (who takes their GP off-road anyway?), I'd feel weird switching to a 5k oil-change schedule...

I wouldn't necessarily recommend a 5K oil change interval for everyone, but with good oil and under my conditions, it is an acceptable interval. I have done oil analysis several times and every time the oil still had life left in it. Short commutes and harsh conditions would require changing more often but that doesn't apply to me.
I have a concrete pad behind my house and I made two wide concrete ramps to drive up on. Makes it real easy to access everything. It will acommodate narrow as well as wide vehicles, as I change the oil in 6 different ones. I just don't like the idea of someone else doing my oil as I don't trust them and also it is less hassle for me--thirty minutes and I'm finished. I've changed my own oil for the last 35 years and have always felt frequent changes have a positive effect on the life of the engine. My daughter starts freaking out when she approaches 5000 miles on her oil. She has over 250,000 miles on a 90 Century with 3.3 that my mother gave her 4 years ago.

MT-2500
03-11-2006, 11:32 AM
That was a VERY interesting read Bob, and exactly the reason I haven't switched to a "high-flow" air filter. I believe cold air intakes work because it straightens the air flow and you're not going through the factory sound deadening twists and turns, but then again it may be a subjective improvement. You can hear the intake, so it "seems" that you're going faster. I've heard that installing a K&N filter in a Duramax truck will void your warranty, but I have no facts to back it, just something I heard.

Mt2500, that oil filter write up was interesting as well. I like the fact that he divided hard fact and subjective opinion.

10-4 on the oil filter write up.
Almost any good brand of oil will last beyond the recomended oil change time without breaking down or wearing out.
But that oil filter is what keeps it clean.
Choice it well your engines long life depends on it.
MT

Her is a little info I picked up that may be interestiong.
Not my own words but copied and pasted from web.
But good info on the Magnusson-Moss aftermarketparts law.

As Quoted from the web. :grinyes:
You won't void his warranty. Dealers try to pull that "void your warranty" crap all the time & they LOSE in court or arbitration unless they can PROVE that the particular modification or aftermarket part caused a covered part to fail. Check out the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act for specific info.
Also, according to Hypertech's Web site, the Power Programmer for the '04-'06 Silverado is CARB approved. The EPA recognizes CARB approval as meeting EPA standards as well, so you wouldn't be in violation of the Clean Air Act if you had reprogrammed his speedo to compensate for the big gears & big tires.
From Hypertech's Web Site:
All Hypertech Power Tuning products are legal for sale or use on California pollution-controlled motor vehicles according to CARB Executive Orders. Power Tuning products for 1998-2004 Ford and Chrysler gasoline, as well as Dodge Cummins diesel applications, are currently in approval-pending status, based on completion of required testing presently being conducted. All 2004 and prior Ford Power Stroke and all GM Duramax applications are legal for sale or use on California pollution-controlled motor vehicles under CARB E.O. D-260-10 and D-260-11, respectively.
In the interest of improved air quality, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) requires new vehicle and manufacturers of aftermarket parts to develop engine and emissions equipment that either reduce or maintain specific air pollutants affected by vehicle use. Both the California Vehicle Code (section 27156) and Federal Clean Air Act (administered by the Environmental Protection Agency) prohibit modifications that increase vehicle emissions. Aftermarket parts manufacturers, particularly in the high-performance segment, are required to obtain CARB approval in the form of executive Orders (E.O.s) for any product not qualifying as a direct replacement for an original equipment part. Hypertech includes meeting all E.O. requirements in its product development process. This guarantees that users of Hypertech "Power Tuning" products will meet certification requirements when registering, selling, or needing to pass various emissions tests or Inspection and Maintenance (I and M) programs administered by state or local enforcement agencies. Make sure that any emissions-related product you buy and install carries an E.O. number or is pending an E.O. Without this verification you are at risk, in potential violation of regulations and may incur unnecessary financial obligations during vehicle inspections or emissions tests.

maceman05
03-11-2006, 08:29 PM
Good information on this topic. I was wondering if anybody uses the oil filter with the magnetic ring around it. Suppose to pick up any shavings that pass through the oil filter. Was wondering if it was worth the money, or a waste of money?

wlkjr
03-11-2006, 09:24 PM
Good information on this topic. I was wondering if anybody uses the oil filter with the magnetic ring around it. Suppose to pick up any shavings that pass through the oil filter. Was wondering if it was worth the money, or a waste of money?
Personally I think they are a waste. Anything big enough to be caught by a magnet should be caught by the filter. After a break in period there shouldn't be much wear if using quality oil at a regular oil change interval. Just my opinion.

richtazz
03-12-2006, 09:41 AM
yep, the magnet filters are a gimmick, just like multiple electrode spark plugs. If you have enough metal shavings in your oil that you need a magnet on your filter to trap them, you got serious engine problems. There should be little to no metal in your oil. The reason we change the oil is combustion byproducts, dirt that get's in frmm outside, and condensation.

xeroinfinity
03-12-2006, 11:44 AM
Hey guys! I just read that air filter article with the Duramax. Kinda sounds lik GM secretly promoting thier own filters, thats just my opinion.
Also the Duramax is a Turbo , thier for its drawing X more air than a normally aspirated engine.
I do understand why the K&N has more dirt/dust build up, its the oil on the filter. The AC Delco is paper, as long as its dry, when dirt/dust acumilates it just falls off when throtle is released.
Very interesting article, thanks Bob!

On the oil filters, I hav seen a few, that when they get hot the glu used to adhear the filter medium inside loosens up and lets oil blow by with out geting filterd, thats not good!

I just switched to the K&N oil filter, hoping its as good as I hav read.
As for a longer or bigger filter, it can make oil pressure run low. On My 89' firebird I use a longer filter, and my oil pres runs low at idle and a littel lowr at high speed. I dont think its enough to hurt the motr(starved for oil) but I supose if its to low, you could do damage.
Magnets!:lol: thats a good scam!

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