new to the forums. I have a few Q's...


tainted_demon
02-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Hey, I'm new to the forums obviously, I know a decent ammount about cars (I took 4 years of mechanics in High School) but not in depth specialties of them, Honda / Acura being what I'd like to know better.
I was looking here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=273828) and here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=515235) and it seems the b18a / b18b is a good engine. I could probably find one at the local auto wreckers thats in decent condition, and work on it until I get the car I'd put it in.

I'm just wondering:
What cars would this fit in? I don't really like the styling of the Integra but I could learn to like it (I don't like the headlight design). I was looking at a Civic / Accord, non-hatchback.

I'm also looking for how to identify which engine it is, I'm guessing it's on the block somewhere?

Comparing b18a/b to b18c I see a decent gain in HP on the b18c, is there any reason the a/b is better over the c? Easier parts to get, ect?

I'd like to have a car with a nice engine, something I can work on by myself and throw some money at to have a nice ride. I'd probably look at a turbo within 2 years, 4cyl greatly preferred (my car is a inline 6cyl thats a beast to drive).

Also, is the design for connecting a standard tran. to a auto tran. the same? Just bolt on and go? I know there is a clutch on the standard tran but I don't know how it comes into play.

And last of all, SOHC vs DOHC, VTEC vs non-VTEC? I know this is a topic on it's own but I'd like to just have a quick answer. Or a link to something on the forums.

Thanks,
Colin


*To mods, if this is in the wrong spot please move. I believe this is more related to Integera's engine then anything else.

//edit. Or would a b16a be more viable?

superbluecivicsi
02-07-2006, 03:12 PM
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878010

tainted_demon
02-07-2006, 06:31 PM
Thanks, that helped out a lot.
I also found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine

Also, what the difference between GS-R, Type-R and a 'regular' Integera (if there actually is a 'regular' Integera)?

TurboGSR96
02-07-2006, 07:55 PM
Tainted.....if you dont like the Integra headlight but you do like the Accord's....Then the Japan Spec front end for the Integra is for you. Any engine from a Civic/Prelude/Integra/Accord is interchangeable.

"Also, what the difference between GS-R, Type-R and a 'regular' Integera (if there actually is a 'regular' Integera)?"

Everything, the Integra Type-R is arguably the best handeling most complete FWD car ever built period. The suspension/engine/transmission/interior are all different than that of a Type-R. If you look abouve you will see a fucked up Type-R (lol). The engines are hand assembled using lightweight parts for a higher redline (8400 RPM). Even though it only has 25 more horsepower, you could put every bolt on possible on a GSR and not achieve the performance of the Type-R. Both the GSR and Type-R have a DOHC VTEC engine and the regular Integra LS/RS's are not VTEC. Base Hp is 140/ GSR 175/ Type-R 200 (and is lighter). A imple net search will further elaborate any questions you might have.

kicker1_solo
02-07-2006, 08:28 PM
The B18a, b, and c are all the same when swapping into a car as far as what they will fit into. They are a direct swap into all integras and a fairly simple swap into civics and CRXs. Swapping a B series into an accord isn't done very often. If you do get an accord, look at the H series motors, such as the H22 (VTEC prelude motor). I would stay away from the B18a if you could help it. Go after a B18c motor first (they are the most expensive) and if you can't do that then look at the B18b motor.

To identify what motor it is look for the stamp on the block. See pic below, circled in red.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kicker1_solo/stamp.jpg

As far as finding parts for the three motors, the B and C will be much easier to modify than the A. But as far as the B and C are concerned, parts are everywhere. So if you do get a B18B, don't worry, you'll find plenty of parts for it because most of them are interchangeable with the C anyways.

If you're planning on going turbo I would personally get the B18b if I were you. The b doesn't have vtec but you can take the head off of a b18c or B16 and bolt it onto the b18b (called ls/vtec). That's the route I would go if going turbo, ls/vtec.

For the transmission, you can do auto or manual, but try to go manual if you can. When it comes to integras I personally see more manuals than autos so that's probably what you'll find. You can also get an upgraded clutch ;) When getting a car, try to find one that is manual too, so that way you don't have to change over all of the pedals, shifter, guage cluster, and all that other fun stuff that comes with it.

SOHC, DOHC. Single OverHead Cam and Dual OverHead Cam. One cam, or two. Two is better, I'll just leave it at that. :)
non-VTEC, VTEC. VTEC is a boost of power at a little over 5,000 RPMs. It's basically like hitting a tiny shot of nitrous. (read up on it, there's thousands of threads) So VTEC is better, it gives you the top end power and a higher redline.

None of that probably makes sense, I just got home from a long day of work lol

tainted_demon
02-08-2006, 12:41 AM
Thanks a lot! The last 2 posts were great and yes I did understand most of it :D.

So let me get this straight... if I don't get a VTEC motor (such as a b18b) and put on a b18c / b16 head, I would then have a VTEC engine? From what I read in your post, thats how I interpreted it.
What kind of HP gain would I be looking at with the new head on there?

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine#B18B1) says:

B18B1
Non-VTEC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC)
Found in:
1994-2001 Integra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Integra) GS/LS/RS (DC)
Displacement: 1834 cm3
Compression: 9.2:1
Power: 142 hp (106 kW) @ 6300 rpm & 128 ft·lbf (172 N·m) @ 5200 rpm
Transmission: S80,Y80[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Honda_B_engine&action=edit&section=15)]

B18C
VTEC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC)
Found in:
1994 Honda Integra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Integra) SiR-G
1995-1997 Honda Integra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Integra) SiR
Power: 172 hp (128 kW)
1997-2001 Honda Integra (Japan) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Integra_%28Japan%29) Type R
Power: 195 hp @ 8100 rpm which shows 146HP vs 172HP with the difference of the VTEC on the eninges. There is probably more then just that but a rough HP gain would be nice.

I'd definatly go with a manual trany since I drive auto now and I don't much like it, less control with it. Whats the difference from the stock clutch vs. the upgraded one?

What years were the Type-R made in?

TurboGSR96, when you talk about the GS-R not being nearly as good as the Type-R engine, what engine models are you referring to?

Thanks, for the pic too kicker1_solo there is so much room it seems to beg for a turbo :D.

Thanks all again,
-Colin

TurboGSR96
02-08-2006, 05:49 PM
The B18C1 is the engine code for the GSR
B18C5 is the code for the R

VTEC has nothing to do with the block of the engine, It is all in the head and valvetrain, basically it is a second set of lobes on the camshaft that start working at a set rpm to give the head a higher lift/longer duration for higher performance. the B18B is a non-vtec engine (LS) if you take the head off of a VTEC engine and put it on the LS engine you will have a VTEC engine now, but your engine size went up due to the larger displacement bottom end of the LS, its a win win situation. Obviously the VTEC is a DOHC engine is going to be more powerful than the VTEC engagement of a SOHC engine.

iVteC_PoWeR
02-08-2006, 05:56 PM
theres actually a lot more involved in making a ls/vtec than slapping on the head...must be PROPERLY built...if you have the money my advice is to go with the gsr swap and boost the beast...i think youll be very happy with that setup

kicker1_solo
02-08-2006, 07:06 PM
Thanks, for the pic too kicker1_solo there is so much room it seems to beg for a turbo :D.

yeah, that's my integra. It's a 90 with a 98 B18C1, love the vtec. :) And there's also a lot of room because I removed the A/C, power steering, cruise control, and many other things.
http://myspace-573.vo.llnwd.net/00063/37/55/63735573_l.jpg
http://myspace-209.vo.llnwd.net/00063/90/26/63736209_l.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/kicker1_solo/f8ab90a31.jpg

tainted_demon
02-08-2006, 07:20 PM
yeah, that's my integra. It's a 90 with a 98 B18C1, love the vtec. :) And there's also a lot of room because I removed the A/C, power steering, cruise control, and many other things.


Looks nice! Any reason you took off the power steering? Just didn't want the few extra HP lost to it?

iVteC_PoWeR
02-08-2006, 07:29 PM
Is there any extra hp lost due to power steering? I actually feel more control of the car without p/s so i like that better even if i have to turn the wheel like hell when the cars not moving

travis712
02-08-2006, 07:30 PM
Wow your the coolest noob i've ever seen on here.

Most of them are like..

waht shud i do to beet mye frends dodge neon?!

Goodluck with the Honda thing, seems like this place is great for any info you would ever need.

tainted_demon
02-08-2006, 07:31 PM
Is there any extra hp lost due to power steering? I actually feel more control of the car without p/s so i like that better even if i have to turn the wheel like hell when the cars not moving
I would suspect so, since the engine has to run a pump. It's a small pump so I don't know what kinda of loss you might get, even if any. I'd say no more then 5HP?

Wow your the coolest noob i've ever seen on here.

Most of them are like..

waht shud i do to beet mye frends dodge neon?!

Goodluck with the Honda thing, seems like this place is great for any info you would ever need.
Yeah I've learned quite a lot in the last 2 days. This is a great site.


/edit
This is a nice car, and since it's at a dealer they might go as low as 12k, BTW these are Canadian prices.
http://driving.canada.com/buy/used/details.spy?carid=652427
I think it's a B18B engine, and the redline looks like it's around 7200ish. Now only if I had the money :(.

nu-b94teg
02-08-2006, 09:45 PM
that's way too much money for that car. kelly blue book values it at about $8000.00. I wouldn't pay more than 7k

kicker1_solo
02-08-2006, 09:51 PM
yeah, that puts it at about $12,200 USD, which is twice what it's worth. Keep looking my friend...

tainted_demon
02-08-2006, 10:43 PM
Thats lame, thanks for the heads up.

I was wondering if anyone has a list of engine types and their redlines. It seems that the b18cX is at 8.5k while the b18bX is 7.5k (or around there). Is this correct?

kicker1_solo
02-08-2006, 10:49 PM
Thats lame, thanks for the heads up.

I was wondering if anyone has a list of engine types and their redlines. It seems that the b18cX is at 8.5k while the b18bX is 7.5k (or around there). Is this correct?
that is correct. Most non-vtec hondas redline in the 7 thousands while the vtec hondas are up in the 8s. After a few new parts and some tuning, my integra
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/kicker1_solo/teggy4.jpg

tainted_demon
02-09-2006, 01:06 AM
Thats up there pretty high, my current engine reds at about 6.5k (5M-GE, not the 7M sadly :().

Now if I changed the head of a b18b to that of a b18c would this change the redline to the same spec as the b18c?

Also, a guy in my class said that engines arn't all about HP, and somewhat more about torque. He said his parents have a '03 Mutsubishi, with what he said 140HP, and ~150 torque. He claimed it accelerates faster and has a higher top speed then his Accord with a 2.2L (or 2.0L I forget). I'd say a good balance is better. Which is?

iVteC_PoWeR
02-09-2006, 04:26 PM
if your talking about a bone stock b18a/b those redline at about 6800rpm and the gsr about 8k...honestly i really like to rev high but thats just me...id rather stick with a ls-t and keep it around 6500-7000rpm at the most when i push it

pepsihatman
02-09-2006, 06:58 PM
Also, a guy in my class said that engines arn't all about HP, and somewhat more about torque. He said his parents have a '03 Mutsubishi, with what he said 140HP, and ~150 torque. He claimed it accelerates faster and has a higher top speed then his Accord with a 2.2L (or 2.0L I forget). I'd say a good balance is better. Which is?

Accords aren't exactly meant to be sports cars. It really depends on what kind of engineering went into the engine as to where it accelerates. You then have to pair that with a proper gearbox and ratios. For example, the GSR engine has 170 hp and 128 lbs-ft of torque. Paired with a lighter car and a close ratio gearbox, it does rather well at accelerating. From my understanding, acceleration also depends on how the power of an engine is delivered (where the torque and hp peaks are and how much torque and hp are available through out the entire rev range)

A lot of cars have more midrange power than topend power just for ease of daily driving. Having more in the midrange just means you don't have to rev it as high to accelerate. (e.g. the Accord)

*shrug* But hey, that is just my understanding of engine power. I could be wrong about any of it.

kicker1_solo
02-09-2006, 08:24 PM
Now if I changed the head of a b18b to that of a b18c would this change the redline to the same spec as the b18c?

yes, ls/vtec will let you rev higher. If you are serious about doing the ls/vtec swap, do some research on it. You will need to either get a new computer or run an extra wire or two (to activate vtec) on your stock computer. It's not difficult...

and yes, torque is one thing that is hard to obtain with a honda, but the more, the better.

tainted_demon
02-09-2006, 08:54 PM
I found this link, where some people did the sawp.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0411scc_hybrid/

Wrap-Up
Even though the LS/VTEC's dark side has been known to rear its ugly head as far as the bottom end is concerned, it also has its good side: more power.

Is there any way to improve the bottom end of the engine (btw what RPM's is that? like 1k-2.5/3k?).

Or maybe I should move to an engine that already has VTEC stock and work up from that... b18c models?

kicker1_solo
02-09-2006, 11:47 PM
If you don't mind a little work, ls/vtec is the way to go in my opinion for the price. You could do that for about half the price as buying a gsr motor. A few years ago a lot of people had problems with this swap, but lately it seems like the majority of people are having success. Just do all of your homework before you begin and I'm sure you can do it.

Almost all hondas and other 4cyl imports have a big problem with the bottom end. There's no quick fix for it, upgrading things to improve hp will also up your torque which will help with the bottom end. There's no set RPM range for being gutless because each car is different but I've noticed my integra starts to really pick up at about 4k, where as my accord with a 2.0L has more bottom end power. So it varies....

tainted_demon
02-09-2006, 11:55 PM
If you don't mind a little work, ls/vtec is the way to go in my opinion for the price. You could do that for about half the price as buying a gsr motor. A few years ago a lot of people had problems with this swap, but lately it seems like the majority of people are having success. Just do all of your homework before you begin and I'm sure you can do it.


I have no problem with doing some work, I'd actually like a project car.

Sometimes at the auto wreckers they have a 200$ day where you can take whatever you want for 200$ as long as you (or your friends) can carry it. I'm sure I could scoop and engine for that price which would be nice. Then go for pistons, cranks, vtec head, ect. I don't have much any experiece building an engine so I'd have to get a book or two, but I'd really have fun. But even then, if I could get a GS-R motor for 200$ that would be a steal. Or even a b18c5 *drooooooool*

kicker1_solo
02-10-2006, 06:31 PM
sounds like a good plan but good luck finding a B18b or c in a junk yard. I go to junk yards regularly and have never ever seen one there...

pepsihatman
02-10-2006, 06:33 PM
I've had a hell of a time even finding a 3rd gen teg in the junkyards. (I need a window sail because I broke mine taking the door panel off)

tainted_demon
02-13-2006, 12:24 AM
Maybe they will have one. I hardly see many teg's around town. Just a few, and they arn't modified at all, stock, automatic, 200k+ on the odometer haha.

If I can't find one I'll just wait til I get the car then work on the engine.

Add your comment to this topic!