ITBs on 91' 240sx
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View Full Version : ITBs on 91' 240sx ITBs on 91' 240sx Nissan_Tuner 01-27-2006, 09:10 PM Gary Narusawa performs the most sacrilegious act possible to the SR20DET, but we never expected this By Jonathan Wong Photography: Wes Allison According to Yamz’ urban folklore, Gary Narusawa is an old school legend; a street racer from the South Bay area of So Cal who marched to the beat of his own drum by fabricating his own components, all while earning his reputation of being that fast. It’s his school of thought that would pave the way for guys like Yamz and other local DIY’ers. He has owned an arsenal of classic compacts, including a turbo’d V6 ’81 Celica (the same one Yamz later bought and made worse; see our March ’03 issue), a ’67 Datsun Roadster with a 13B rotary conversion, and the S14 he’s become famous for amongst the road racers with its RB25DET powerplant. But even with such highly-tuned vehicles, Gary needed something for the daily drive and settled on this ’91 Nissan 240SX, which he quickly admits, he “got carried away with” during the build up. Fashioned with a common SR20, there’s a twist to the way it’s been set up. Look closely—what do you see? Well, unless you had the spec sheet in your hands, your first guess that it’s a SR20DET long block would be wrong; it’s actually a S13 SR20DET cylinder head that’s been mildly ported and polished to work harmoniously with a high compression 10:1 S14 SR20DE bottom end. Gary, who did the engine work himself, also fitted it with 272-degree Bee*R camshafts and upgraded the valve train with sodium-filled exhaust valves from a SR20DET along with Tomei valve springs and rocker arm stoppers. The real trick lies with the intake system, which is a JDM GTI-R ITB manifold that was custom modified to fit onto the head. But the task of getting those to work was not simple; the ITBs also needed the right fuel mixture to get it running, which required Gary to fabricate his own fuel delivery system with ND 365cc top feed injectors from a supercharged MR2 mounted to a custom fuel rail, an AEM fuel regulator, and enough fuel to be fed through the system with a Walbro 255 fuel pump. On the exhaust side, he also modified a stainless header intended for the KA24DE since none of the JDM headers would clear the left-hand drive steering rack, which then leads out to a custom-fabbed, mandrel-bent 2.5-inch exhaust. http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_01_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_01_z.jpg',640,480)) http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_02_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_02_z.jpg',640,480)) http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_03_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_03_z.jpg',640,480)) http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_04_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_04_z.jpg',640,480)) http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_05_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_05_z.jpg',480,640)) http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_06_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_06_z.jpg',640,480)) orestes 01-27-2006, 09:51 PM looks pretty sweet, but the picture links go nowhere. Hit_N_Run-player 01-27-2006, 10:49 PM Looks pretty sweet. http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0510_240sx_06_z.jpg Murherar 01-28-2006, 01:32 AM yeah its pretty cool, its the same one that was in superstreet a couple months ago Skylindrftr 01-28-2006, 01:35 AM im guessing he was going for the n2 endurance look, but you could always do that on a sr20de, which would be cheaper, more practical etc... Nissan_Tuner 01-28-2006, 01:53 AM it’s actually a S13 SR20DET cylinder head that’s been mildly ported and polished to work harmoniously with a high compression 10:1 S14 SR20DE bottom end. Nissan_Tuner 01-28-2006, 01:55 AM do you guys think that would be better than a turbo or what? cuz i heard that the ITB is not good for a daily driver because it eats gas like crazy and does harm to the engine when driving it slow. nissan_240sx 01-28-2006, 01:57 AM Nice, I bet it sounds mean Skylindrftr 01-28-2006, 04:54 AM They are facking loud oh yeah and i forgot to read the ss article so i didnt know it was a s14 sr20de with the s13 sr20det woops Nissan_Tuner 01-28-2006, 03:12 PM yeah i bet its loud but i think that a turbo might be faster, not sure though? R.W.240 01-28-2006, 03:55 PM Meh, that car isnt too fresh. The E*SR Cars make me wet my pants though. N/A is gonna be slower for what money you put into it... obviously. but therer is a bling factor to it. D-Bo 01-28-2006, 05:48 PM i like the rims too.. Nissan_Tuner 01-29-2006, 01:59 AM yeah those rims are pretty badass orestes 01-29-2006, 02:51 PM i would drive that shit and just leave it. i bet its fast enough. S13wanabe 01-31-2006, 06:51 PM Actually, turbo cars being faster than NA cars is a common misconception in the import scene. Now I don't know how much he spent, but NA high reving motors generally get better traction than turbo cars and make up for power differences in traction. Many guys with turbos on street cars just spin tires all day long, and NA guys scream down the track. Top end or freeway racing almost always goes to turbo cars though. As far as pricing goes, turbo kits are around $3000 and you wouldn't believe what and motor could do with $3000 put into it NA. I have a 240 for a daily driver and a Civic for racing. My civic has under $2000 into the motor, and should make around 200-215 whp and revs to over 9,000 rpms. My car should run high 12's. Most civics with the same stock motor and tubos are running mid 13's to low 14's with a larger investment. Yes this is front drive, but with my experience with a 350z twin turbo and sr20det 240SX with some mods, I believe the same holds true for rear drive. I'm still breaking in my Civic motor so please don't ask for proof, but if you do want the proof I will be posting it in the Honda forums soon and you can find it there under the same s13wanabe name. nissan_240sx 01-31-2006, 09:13 PM ^ long time no see s13wannabe Nissan_Tuner 01-31-2006, 11:13 PM I am not trying to be a dick or trying to judge or anything, but whats with you guys and hondas? what is so special, you have to spend alot just to get them to pull high 13s, whats the point? Just asking, I mean i still appreciate your input on the thread and all, i just always wondered that, and never really asked anyone. 240SXSlideStar 01-31-2006, 11:38 PM Maybe 1/4 mile times aren't everything. S13wanabe 02-01-2006, 12:57 AM Yeah, I'm back at school now so I will have time to be on again. As far as Hondas, it doesn't take a lot of money to make them fast. I had a stock LS/vtec motor in my civic. I have put about $2,400 total into the motor and fuel delivery and tuning coming up. NA of course. With slicks I will be running high 12's. My motor builder garantees it. Now for under a $10,000 total investment I have a car that runs 12's and will destroy most other cars around a track aswell. That includes the car originally and the motor I installed and bought, and the crazy rebuild, and suspension rear sway and tie bar and strut bars included, and wheels and tires (RT615 too), and integra front and rear brakes. They are very cheap and easy to make fast not only in a straight line but around a course too. Hondas are fun cars, the motors sound awsome and rev way high(mine 9,500 rpms on 91 octane), and they are easy to work on and cheap. Hondas are cool, but so are 240's. That's why I have both. Hit_N_Run-player 02-01-2006, 01:02 AM can i ask how you expect to get into the 12's with only 210whp? Nissan_Tuner 02-01-2006, 12:59 PM my buddy on www.omaharacing.com (http://www.omaharacing.com) has a 97 RX7 with twin turbo and thats it and he pulls high 12s i shit you not. My other friend dave has a 97 civic hatch with a JDM GSR swap, and a ecu and he only does mid 14s and the car is only 1800lbs. S13wanabe 02-01-2006, 01:12 PM My car weighs 2300 lbs, and it is actually weighed, not a guessed number (1800 would be one of the lightest EK's in existance). 200 whp NA is good power, and with slicks traction is perfect. NA cars with less power than turbo cars run better 1/4 mile times all the time. That's why guys build NA motors. Check out the All Motor class in NHRA sport compact drag racing. Those cars are in the low 10's and even hit high 9's with no more than 300whp. And that is actual dynoed whp, not some imaginary number. Many people claim big numbers. Some lie and don't have the power they claim, others don't lie and just spin tires all day long. I don't lie and don't spin tires. Or at least I won't. Like I said, I will post dyno sheets and 1/4 timeslips when I get them. 1viadrft 02-01-2006, 01:30 PM ITB's.... that's the way to go with NA engines. With some head-work, higher compression pistons, maybe some over-boring... you'll have a 9000rpm monster. Who cares about 1/4 mile times? If it's an issue just spray and get over it. Minus turbo-lag.... these could be great track engines. As mentioned... the daily driver feel of an NA is taken away and the engine becomes alot less reliable. But that's the price you pay... Hit_N_Run-player 02-01-2006, 02:21 PM my buddy on www.omaharacing.com (http://www.omaharacing.com) has a 97 RX7 with twin turbo and thats it and he pulls high 12s i shit you not. My other friend dave has a 97 civic hatch with a JDM GSR swap, and a ecu and he only does mid 14s and the car is only 1800lbs. Ok, i can see a TT RX7 hitting 12s. But not bone stock. And a JDM GSR pulling mid 14's is not very impressive... Id like to see some vids or timeslips of the car when its done S13wanabe. S13wanabe 02-01-2006, 05:38 PM Like I said, when I get them, they will go up online ASAP. I got to shut guys like you up right?:wink: And as mentioned up above, reliability isn't totally sacrificed building an NA motor. My motor should easily get the usual 200,000+ miles that a Honda gets. Now ITB's are hard to tune and you need everything to really flow well for them to be effective, but with filters put on, again, you don't sacrifice much reliability or drivability, you just won't make good power until the high rpm's. Hit_N_Run-player 02-01-2006, 06:15 PM i love the sound of ITBs. There was a local AE86 with ITBs, damn that thing sounded badass when it really got on the throttle. 1viadrft 02-01-2006, 11:38 PM Imagine what this sounds like: http://z32racing.50megs.com/Z/_photos/_20030524/P1010041.JPG Hit_N_Run-player 02-02-2006, 12:19 AM is that your car? I bet is sounds like a wet dream :P R.W.240 02-02-2006, 02:17 AM Comparing a KA to any of Hondas twin cam (and most single cams) is retarded. The KA is not built to make N/A Power. To do 250whp like a 2L honda motor it would literally need to be rebuilt every 5000miles or something insane like that. Scooter, the leader of N/A KA is now going turbo. Its too much money for too little gain. slideways... 02-02-2006, 08:54 AM im actually thinking of going KA n/a but its not decided for sure yet. the only reason why i even would is to stay in an SCCA autox class i wont get my ass handed to me in. if i dont autox it, then im turboing it. actually i havent looked into all the rules for SCCA autox yet so if turbos wont put me in another class then thats what ill do, but the oiling and cooling issues to keep a turbo motor happy under high side g loads is quite a bit more, but its worth it. and yes, RW, i know your opinion of autox and SCCA. its still fun too. and that blue car is sick. but the bling factor is higher than the power factor. and yes a 210 whp honda will run 12s. the fastest n/a FWD hondas out there run high 9s with less than 300whp. no joke. nissan_240sx 02-02-2006, 08:58 AM ^ would that be the blackish 9 sec honda? S13wanabe 02-02-2006, 07:36 PM I know both Skunk2 cars are in the high 9's. I'm not sure what else is. RW240, I don't know what you call too expensive. What does an average turbo kit cost. How about we be conservative and say $3,000. Then you have to add a million other things just to handle that turbo just like you would building an NA car. For $3,000 You can add cams, pistons, port and polish head, balance hot tank and micropolish, and any bolton imaginable. Sure you wouldn't see the same whp #'s that you would from a turbo, but you sure wouldn't be slow. And the KA wasn't built to be a turbo motor either, unless you see a bunch of turboed trucks out there. What's wrong with being unique and different. Plus you may be surprised at how fast an NA motor would be, even if you could only get 190whp which I'm sure is possible out of the KA without getting too crazy. orestes 02-02-2006, 07:41 PM yeah i know i kinda got reamed on here with people saying they didnt believe my friends honda's are in the 10's. shits are fast. Hit_N_Run-player 02-02-2006, 10:30 PM well i dont really seem to think honda people are very reputable (not anything against you S13wanabe, just personal experience). Heres the last three incidents ive had with honda owners 1) A guy with an LS/Vtec integra with I/H/E tells me he thinks he can break into the 14's with his car. And that he might be able to smoke a VR4. I go watch him at the track one night, he runs a 16.2. Pathetic.... Oh and his car starts burning oil and it smells like Micky D's all the way down the road, his excuse is that he has an imported engine and that it takes more oil than other engines. I cant even name how many times ive reamed this guy for thinking he knows anything more than what a door handle is. 2) One of the first guys friends has a HB civic with some SOHC motor. He get like a .05 reaction time, and still runs a 19.1. A few weeks later, he does an LS/vtec swap and hits 16.1, better times (kudos for that), but still pathetic for how overated this engine swap is, and how light his hatch is. 3) A 4dr civic that has dual exhuast and only one of the mufflers is actually connected to the exhaust is at my school. He got an automatic, and says he used to have a turbo setup. He says he sold the setup because he had a little oil leaking out of the turbo. He then tells me that he sold it and bought a skyline transmission for his car, i then reamed him.... I havent met a honda owner that isnt a cocky bastard and thinks he can smoke vipers. I know there are alot of smart honda owners out there, i just dont think they live in Vancouver WA.... Hit_N_Run-player 02-02-2006, 10:33 PM oh, that guy number one even once tried to tell me that a guy down the street from him already bought a new skyline GT-R. I was like "he maybe bought a G35 and your blind?" orestes 02-02-2006, 10:40 PM one of these guys's hondas really does beat vipers though. Skylindrftr 02-02-2006, 11:16 PM mabye the honda guys you happen to know are all ricers lol... S13wanabe 02-03-2006, 11:21 AM Yeah, it's true, there are a lot of dumbass honda drivers out there. But there must be something wrong with their driving or obviously their motors. Any LS/vtec car should be in the 14's. But put a shitty driver behind any motor and you get slow times. TRUBO_89 02-03-2006, 12:03 PM maybe because they put on bodykits and 10ft tall wings that weigh them down... Hit_N_Run-player 02-05-2006, 10:15 PM Yeah, it's true, there are a lot of dumbass honda drivers out there. But there must be something wrong with their driving or obviously their motors. Any LS/vtec car should be in the 14's. But put a shitty driver behind any motor and you get slow times. are you sure? We also have a 92 integra with a JDM b18 IIRC that runs high 15's. And i would think that the b18 would be better than the Ls/vtec.... Importboom 02-05-2006, 10:56 PM lol, here in minnesota, we get alot of the 10ft honda wings. but on the other hand we do have a pretty sick sti, along with a pretty badass yellow evo, and then this kid at my school who has a black civic, ugliest thing ive ever seen, but it is turbo, but he claims to be running 27psi.? oh and then we have a talon, that it just crazy modded out, why? idk but he claims he can do 180mph but why that matters, beats me. people at my school piss me off, they know nothing about anything, thats right, nothing about anything. Afew people do like my friend he has a N/A celica which is pretty sick. i think its at like 230whp or something of that nature i get to drive it this summer too:naughty: R.W.240 02-05-2006, 11:40 PM RW240, I don't know what you call too expensive. What does an average turbo kit cost. How about we be conservative and say $3,000. Then you have to add a million other things just to handle that turbo just like you would building an NA car. For $3,000 You can add cams, pistons, port and polish head, balance hot tank and micropolish, and any bolton imaginable. Sure you wouldn't see the same whp #'s that you would from a turbo, but you sure wouldn't be slow. And the KA wasn't built to be a turbo motor either, unless you see a bunch of turboed trucks out there. Uhh... 3K into a KA-T will get you like 300whp. It won't be the best parts but not straight off of Ebay. 3K in an N/A KA will get you like 180 tops. They are not fast. It is not superior in any manner it all. at that power level any turbo with any thought into it wont lag at all. Furthermore, I think not turboing a car to be competetive in autocross is lame as shit. Autocross is the biggest joke ever - "hey pay us 30$ so you can drive through cones for 4minutes at the most and then stand around all day working for us so you runs will get you points" Fuck that noise. you could go to a drift event and get more seat time per dollar than an autocross. Or save up and go to a legit HPDE at a track. In conclusion. Autocross is just a venue for old men with Mini Coopers to stand around and jerk themselfs off about how well their 712s grip at 10mph and should be avoided at all costs. NA K/A Blows Chunks. getting beat by SMIC SR20s is unacceptable and should be avoided at all costs. slideways... 02-06-2006, 08:38 AM but since i live in a barren frozen wasteland of the upper midwest, the nearest drift event is in chicago and im not trying to drive 7+ hours every weekend all summer just for that. the only organized racing around here is autox, some rally, and a bunch of rednecks and their demolition derby and short track ovals. S13wanabe 02-06-2006, 01:30 PM Hit N Run-player, the ls/vtec makes more power than a b18c1 (GSR). They generally are a tad slower than a type-r motor swap (b18c5). And when my ls/vtec was stock in a 4-door with even the stock 93 civic exhaust, I ran 14.3's. Thats on stock shit tires too. My car was stripped to the bone and I would like to consider myself a decent driver. My friend had a GSR swap in a 92 hatch and ran a 14.0. His 92 was the CX model which is the lighest and he had all the basic bolt-ons and better than stock wheels and tires. Driver makes a big difference in any car. I get disgusted everytime I go to drag races and see STi's and Evo's not even breaking into the 13's. Sad isn't it. Nissan_Tuner 02-06-2006, 08:14 PM I thought we were talking in the nissan forums, if you wanna talk about slow cars go to the Honda forums. thankyou very much. R.W.240 02-06-2006, 08:22 PM I thought we were talking in the nissan forums, if you wanna talk about slow cars go to the Honda forums. thankyou very much. If you want to post up stale ass Super Street 240SXs you can go to drifting.com thankyou very much. SUCK IT. S13wanabe 02-06-2006, 09:38 PM Hey Nissan Tuner, since you are new I guess we can go easy on you. Oh, do you even have a 240SX for starters? Next, what are your 1/4 mile times? Have you ever been in an actual sanctioned race before? Are you still a street racer? Just some questions you should ask yourself before you start bagging on people. Nissan_Tuner 02-08-2006, 07:22 PM for right now i am driving/racing a 85 buick regal t-type 3.8 turbo, (ask for list of mods) there is alot done to it, but i just picked up a 91' 240 from a guy that wasnt even sellin he just decided to for 2k cash. I havent taken it to the strip yet but its faster than stock. my buddy warren has a 2002 camaro ss SLP and he works nights so i get it almost every night and to it smokes just about everything on the street. I have had many close races but the only thing that was able to keep up, not win but keep up was a 99 mustang cobra twin turbo, he calls his car boostang. I may be new to the site and a lil bit new to nissans but I'm not stupid when it comes to cars or street racing. I dont call racing at the strip street racing, i am talkin bout racin on the city streets. but anyways the slp camaro does high 11s in the 1/4 mile. oh and to R.W.240 if your gonna talk shit on 240s then maybe your not worthy of owning one or even being on this site, so you SUCK IT!! S13wanabe 02-08-2006, 07:43 PM R.W.240 has been a respected person on this forum for quite some time. I think you had better cool it before you get kicked off. Your 16 year old maturity shines. As for the Camaro, 11's are nice but here we like proof. Time slips do nicely. As for your comment earlier about Hondas being the slow car forum, I might have to tell you that a Camaro running 11's is quite slow considering a minimum of $30,000 and probably more has been put into the car, that includes initial payment for the car, and I happen to know a guy that runs low 10's, and hopefully high 9's soon if he wants to continue to be competitive, for under $15,000 total. Did I mention it's a Honda CRX and doesn't use forced induction or nitrous. Just be smart about what you say. A lot of us have been in the car scene since we were 16 or earlier, and I am 23. We have seen a million new teen drivers say they have the fastest cars in the world, and yet when I go to races, I still see mostly slow times. And these are the people who are actually racing. I give no respect for people racing on local street anymore. Not to say I haven't done it, but now I'm all about organized events like NHRA and not having to deal with a 4 point record. In California that's really bad. Keep your mouth shut a little longer and learn from people who are experienced and are racing. If you want to have a fast car, you should take all the advice you can get and keep an open mind. Hondas can be really fast too. orestes 02-08-2006, 07:47 PM how bout this gets moved to the dumb forums Nissan_Tuner 02-12-2006, 12:29 AM well even thought he may be a respected member does that give him any right to be an asshole? I just returning the comment anyways i will talk to my friend to see if he has a time slip. But i must say that he really didnt spend much on the camaro, same here i didnt spend much on the regal we know people in the machine shop that do most of the stuff for free, ofcourse we do things for them too. but anyways yeah i will talk to him.. Chuki_breath 02-12-2006, 01:05 AM well even thought he may be a respected member does that give him any right to be an asshole? I just returning the comment anyways i will talk to my friend to see if he has a time slip. But i must say that he really didnt spend much on the camaro, same here i didnt spend much on the regal we know people in the machine shop that do most of the stuff for free, ofcourse we do things for them too. but anyways yeah i will talk to him.. he may be cocky, but everything he said is truth. A na ka is waste of time. And i dont know where you guys live but high 11's is slow around here. Well not totally slow, but there are plenty that will eat you. Couple high 11 sr's (barely moded). And about the honda, im sorry bro, its a waste of time. And the 9 second hondas are not what i would consider street drivers everyday builds. There are plenty of hondas around here with way more done than what you have and still.....no balls. Roll patrol races they have a little more advantage. But a dig......peace out. They are quick though. They will trick your everyday mustang driver. But in the world of racing, there poor. Good luck though. Hit_N_Run-player 02-13-2006, 01:15 AM Hit N Run-player, the ls/vtec makes more power than a b18c1 (GSR). They generally are a tad slower than a type-r motor swap (b18c5). And when my ls/vtec was stock in a 4-door with even the stock 93 civic exhaust, I ran 14.3's. Thats on stock shit tires too. My car was stripped to the bone and I would like to consider myself a decent driver. My friend had a GSR swap in a 92 hatch and ran a 14.0. His 92 was the CX model which is the lighest and he had all the basic bolt-ons and better than stock wheels and tires. Driver makes a big difference in any car. I get disgusted everytime I go to drag races and see STi's and Evo's not even breaking into the 13's. Sad isn't it. my info, and yours must not be adding up, because the guy that has the LS/vtec and IHE got beat by my pretty much bone stock ka, and a B&M short throw (Wow the power mods!!!). We raced from a 30 roll and a stop, beat him on both. more on the one from a stop because he thinks hes cool to launch at redline and spin tires... IDK, im still rating the ls/vtec a weak and overplayed swap, but thats just me. And he even said that he loses to GSR's alot... SHIFT_KA24DE 02-13-2006, 03:18 PM possibly a poorly done swap... verify with a dyno or something. lol... have you 'looked' at the motor? maybe it's a fraud. HAHA Hit_N_Run-player 02-14-2006, 12:55 AM no i have, it says honda VTEC and everthing on the head... J_Swigz 02-14-2006, 02:34 AM This is a waste of a thread. Thanks for coming, bye :rolleyes:. If you guys really wanna argue over something that probably means shit anyway, please keep it either in PM's or over AOL, but not on this forum. 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