AWD 2006 Rally ART Eclipse

Anyone seen the new Rally Art Eclipse???? I saw it in a mag, looks tight, with a Turbo 400Hp, AWD. The numbers are good, the body work was sweet, but I think it lacks the sex apeal of the 3KGT!!!!! I don't know if anyone agrees with me or not, the the 3000GT I find is a more complete looking sports car. Why the hell didn't they just put all that crap inside the 99 3K, and call it a day.
it's a sweet ride though
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/1540000-1540999/1540830_228.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/1540000-1540999/1540830_229.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/1540000-1540999/1540830_240.jpg

This is my only beef, a 4 Banger, they should have just stuck with the V6 from the get go. WILL SOMEONE REMIND THESE IDIOTS THAT PEOPLE WILLING TO PAY 10,000 AND MORE FOR THE PERFORMANCE MODEL ARE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND NOT GAS MILEAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/1540000-1540999/1540830_231.jpg

Woah woah woah, not just any 4 Banger...the legendary 4g63-t motor is back. The new Ralliart Eclipse looks sweet and hopefully it get's into production...we see Mitsu finally decided to head back to the roots of the DSM.

Woah woah woah, not just any 4 Banger...the legendary 4g63-t motor is back. The new Ralliart Eclipse looks sweet and hopefully it get's into production...we see Mitsu finally decided to head back to the roots of the DSM.

I understand, but for gods sake, what happened to TT V6????? They were all on the right track, most of these other countries pay $2.00 for a liter of gas!!!!! we get a Gallon for the same price, and they send us economical sports cars............. I want a 3.0L V6 450hp like the british Holden 390hp TT V6. That's why I'm gonna sell my Sl and get me a VR-4. BMW right now seems to be the one company on the right track when it comes to performance, V10 M5, I-6 Z4, and yes, the next gen M3 V8!!!!! and all RWD!!!!! even if it's an AWD, they always have a RWD engine setup like the Skyline.
But in anycase, the 3000GT looks sweet.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/264000-264999/264136_12_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/264000-264999/264136_10.jpghttp://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/225000-225999/225485_23_full.jpg
Now that's damn sexy, look at that big mouth, reminds me of Angelinas' Lips, just ready to suck in what comes at it..........................Ok maybe I got a little carried away, but you get the meaning, that's got to be one of the best looking car there it out there BAR NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone Disagrees????????

It's a question of packaging... It's easier to mass produce (IE: cheaper) a bomb proof I-4 and feed it high pressure FI then it is to produce a strong V shaped engine because of the moving parts and torsional stresses and reciprocating mass involved.

It also gives you more room to fit in the AWD and re-enforced tranny in a FWD chassis.

I think BMW got it right but not for the reasons you think... They:
1) realised they are not Honda or ferrari and can't build a reliable 6-cylinder engine with a redline around 8000rpm
2) do not believe in forced induction
3) realised the only way to get around 1 and 2 and make a lot of HP is to build bigger engines.

I might be getting old, but I do think the sports cars were sexier in the mid nineties but the 3000Gt chasis was starting to show it's age... Too bad they didn't bother to keep the looks when they started to re-do the lineup.

WHAT!!!!!!!! one of the main reason for BMW going to a V8 M3 was that the race verion used a V8 n/a and they were banned because they didn't have a production 3 series with a V8, anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but there was an article stating they will be back into the races with an addition to a new line up.
And if the I-6 wasn't so reliable, why are they still producing it in the M roadster?????? The engine is reliable, but 333Hp was about all they could get without sacrificing too much reliability. And as you stated, they don't really put Turbos into their cars, so they decided to upgrade, M5 to V10, M3 to V8. and Z to I-6.
And by the way, BMW is the king of quality, Honda doesnt have a 6 cylinder N/A 333Hp engine that passes emissions for under 50K, actually no one has that I've heard of, and as for reliability issues, power comes with compromise, you can't want race car performance and grocery getter reliability for under 80K, if thats what you want, go buy a ferrari.
So, rev a Honda engine to 8000 RPM and do the 1/4m in 18 secs and talk of how they still get 28 miles to the gallon and save 30K, even though it lost to the M3. Power costs, how fast can you afford to go.
Yeah and lastly, it may be CHEAPER (notice the emphasis on CHEAPER!!!) to mass produce the 4-banger, but a 400Hp Turbo 4-Cyl will not be as reliable as a 400Hp Turbo 6-Cyl, reliability, and emissions limits are approaching, but on the 6, you still have some room to work in, and you can reliably get up to 500-550hp and still pass emissions. Throw in a couple of extra $$$$ and you can even get 600Hp, and stay street legal, try that with a 4-Cyl. How many 400Hp Supras and 300Zs, and Skylies are there compared to 400Hp 4-bangers.

OH, one more thing, The M3 Revs to 8000 RPM comfortably, the M5 V8 reved to 8000 RPM comfortably, and the 06 M5 V10 reved to 8000 RPM comfortably, and they say the V8 and V10 can go further but the legal dept and for public safety, they are rev limited. So please, don't talk crap about a company, do some research, leave the Bimmers alone. Go slap on a Turbo on a Honda V6 and you might just manage to stay three car lengths behind, unless he goes to some curvy road, and again your @SS is gone!!!! BMW - Be My Wife

Well Mitsu did try the TT V6 and now look where the 3000GT has landed. Most people who buy cars don't have the mindset of "this will by my race car and the other one will be my daily driver". People want a "complete" package when purchasing a vehicule. They want it to be roomy, sporty, classy etc...
And then weight comes into play as well, the 4th gen is a porker alreeady without a beefed up V6 in there, I doubt the benefits from such an engine in that would equalize the cost. You see a lot of companies doing the same, they go with a smaller engine to reduce the cost but at the same time minimize the performacnce loss (S2000 is one example of this).
And then you have to realise what the car is made for. Can you guess another car made by mitsu that has a turbo'd awd 4 banger? That's right, it's the Evo...now why would mitsu want to make another car that's the same as something they have now? Simple, look at the cost of an Evo and thinkof how mnay people can afford it, now take some of the higher enf stuff out and you've got a pretty decent 4-banger that can hold it's own, the Eclipse. But I do belive Mitsu is playing with fire here for as the Eclipse most likely won't be significantly cheaper than the Evo and might get a lot of criticism for that. (if you remember the same thing was happening between the 3000GT and the Eclipse back in the day, that's why they scrapped the 3000GT and made the Evo their ultimate sports car and then took out all the goodies out of the Eclipse to make it affordable and not to compete with the Evo).

Who knows, they might not be able to make it affordable enough to start producing, although it would be nice to have the 4g63-t make it's return.


EDIT: As far as gas prices go, if you're ready and willing to pay that much for a gas guzzler then you go ahead and build them yourselves, in the meantime...Japan wants econo sports cars, Japan will make Econo sports car, you don't have to buy or like em.

you guys are more than welcome to differ in opinion, but Sho I'd appreciate it if you keep it respectful.

So please, if you are gonna talk shit about a company, do some research, leave the Bimmers alone. Go slap on a Turbo on a Honda V6 and you might just manage to stay three car lengths behind, unless he goes to some curvy road, and again your @SS is gone!!!! BMW - Be My Wife

I don't think he was "talking sh*t" about BMW, just giving another reason for their sucess. Theres no reason that both of you couldn't be right. And as far as Honda's V6, you might want to check out this video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2949919259744802395&q=M3+nsx\ (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2949919259744802395&q=M3+nsx%5C)

Not to say that you're completely wrong, but I think that Honda's V6 can hold up against its competition.

I am not saying that honda is better then BMW... I did not mean to insinuate that but the fact remains that the M3 engine eats a quart of oil less then every 5000 miles and the S2000 engine does not.

If you would pay attention, I said a V shaped engine is inherently less stable when you stable when you try to approach the limits. Any engineer will tell you this and it's something that engine designers spend years trying to get around.

Also... Another general rule in engineering is the less parts that move the less there is to break down and the more efficent the engine. A optimistic (and this would be very optimistic) is that each cylinder displaces the same volume the NA V6 would be 1.5 more powerful then a I4. Now for the same manufacturing cost per engine you could build the the I4 more relable at 18Psi boost then a V6 at 12Psi boost. and have the same howerpower.

And additional advantage is the 18Psi I4 would be smaller and lighter allowing you more room to re-enforce the tranny.

Anyway, before you get all offended realise all I did was state what is already known about engine builders trying to exceed 100HP/L NA. I am not talking overall output. In fact I like BMW and plan on getting a 540 as my next car. I have never owned a honda and probably never will, but I as an engineer am asounded that Honda managed to product a mass produced engine (the M3 engine is practically hand build) that puts out more then 100HP/L more reliably (check the number of problems per unit produced) then any other engine manufacturer.

OK, not to make this a verbal war I'll edit the post...............sowwy......

I beg to differ, Raz, the EVO isn't a big hit because for it's price you can get a much better package..........Subaru...... if people were not willing to spend so much ca$h on high performance cars, then there wouldn't be a waiting line for the M3s, nor would there be SKYLINES in the states. On the contrary, there tons of people willing to spend the extra CA$H for the Performance, hence the return of the Supra, Skyline, Camaro etc.
Look at the demand for Supras and III Gen Rx7s etc. True performance lovers don't want a lateral engine high performance car, that's why the Imprezza does better than the Evo, the skyline, supra, 300zx did better than the 3KGT. People like RWD platforms that has always been the case.
You can't cheap out on a sports car and expect true enthusiast who buy the cars for passion to get it. The 300ZX a very nice car has nothing on the 3KGT, but it outsold the 3KGT even though they both have crowded engine bays. That's why I'm selling my SL, I had a Trans-Am, and some how, a FWD sports car doesn't ring too good in my opinion.
The 350Z and G35 coupe are a hot selling item, look at how many M3s are out there, those little buggers are all over the place. People have money to spend, but auto makers are selling the wrong product!!!!!!!!

The Evo is big mainly because of what it has accomplished over the years. It has been around for decades, but why do you think it is only recently that the name has become huge. Not only because of the accomplishments but just the rivalry between the rally champs (Subaru) the Evo is able to generate income. And as example the new Mazdaspeed6 is a lot cheaper than the STi and Evo and differs in 1/4 mile times by 1 sec. Yes I know 1 sec is a lot in terms drag racing and any other type of racing, but that goes to show that cheaper doesn't always mean worse.
Supra, RX-7, 300ZX, 3000GT...all dead. Most of the Japanese power houses are no longer around and the ones they are bringing back were nothing compared to their roots (RX-8 is still rotary but no longer boosted, Skyline moving away from the I-6 and into a V-8 with a price tag in the 6 figures etc...) If car enthusiast really had the money and really liked these cars, then they would still be in production now wouldn't they?
The demand for these type cars have gone down substantially. People want cars like the SRT-4 and Cobalt SS. Cheap and fast. I know I hate to admit it myself but these cars pack a lot of punch for their price tag and that's what "people" want.
The M3 is a bimmer, the rich do not buy on what kind of car it is moreso then they do on what brand of car it is. They call it a luxury car with some kick, same as the new IS350.

If you compare the volume sold between the EVO and WRX, I think you'll find the WRX on the lead by a big margin, someone knows how to check the amt's sold. Anyway, not everyone that has an M3 just bought it cause they had tons of cash, alot of those guys bought it for the performance it offered.
Yes, the less moving parts the less power waisted, I know the physics part of it. I didn't refuse it is easier to build a I-4 and fortify it, but what does everyone that buys a performance car want? MORE performance. So what happens when you go out and buy this 4-Cyl (that's already pushed close to it's legal limits by the way) and you want more? Sales drop. The Srt and Cobalt were put up for sale for the 16-18yr old that can't afford to go buy an S2000, or 3 series BMW, but wants something with a kick. But look at the M5s' the RS6, the new ZO6, Lingenfilter Corvets, 350Z etc, they are for a totally different market, and it is this market that is willing to pay the price for a decent sports car.
The Supras, ZX, Camaros' and also the 3000GT are DEAD, Yes, but they are back. 98-01 if you look at the market brought out huge paycuts, poor performing portfolios, and tons of corporate restructuring, this took an effect on everything. But as things pick up, look at the Detroit auto show, tons of new High performance cars, and re-introduction of discontinued models. Most companies were trying to predict the market, thinking economy will be the next big thing, only to find grandpa still opts for the Hemi version instead of the V6.
But in any case, whether you admit it or not, people are willing to pay the extra cost for performance, and as for quality, the Shylines and Supras are back, soon to be in production. And by the way, the 350Z is the new 300ZX, it's because they added .5L displ, so they changed the name.
The name EVO is big, but I don't see to many of them, infact for every one I see, I see 4 WRX, and I leave in GA!

You need to be comparing the Evo to the STi and not the WRX. I agree that people who want a sports car want the best performance and they do realise the cost of such a thing. Now the 4g63-t came on the DSM's with 200HP and people managed to double it and not have to worry about the internal components failing. Find me one V6 or V8 that you can double the manufacturers HP and still have it being reliable and not have to change any internal components.
But you need to remember one thing here, the reason why Japanese car makers are selling more cars every month is because of reliability and cost to keep the car (this includes cost of gas, initial cost, up-keep costs etc...) The Supra and Skyline are no longer going to be for the regular car enthusists, it is now going to be for those who can afford exotic cars in the 6 figures.
The SRT-4 and Cobalt SS sold quite a lot because of bang for buck. Whether you want to admit it or not, these things sold liek hot cakes because it is now the younger generation mostly into tuner cars then older generation. So they have to figure how much an average teen or young adult can afford and build a car around that budget.

Cars that you can double their factory output without internal modification:
Supra, 3KGT, Skylines...............And in anycase, like I said, the cobalt and SRT-4 are for a diff market, yes they sold like hotcakes because the average kid can't afford an M3, or EVO.
I'm used to WRX, you know what I mean.
This is what I'm saying, everytime they've built a car well from the ground up, whether it costed 25K or 35K people always bought them. Yes they aren't gonna sell in the numbers like your average Civic, but it would be nice if they built some quality cars instead of forcing us to go 6-8yrs back.
I'm talking of RWD platform sports cars, like the Skylines and Supra's that are still selling well even at this date.
The 3000GT would have probably out sold the 350Z if it was RWD, if you ask me, it looks way better, longer and sleeker.
In anycase, they are building high performance cars, for the SRT-4 buyer, and something like the rally art will probably be the same preice as an EVO, I'd rather add 15K, buy me an M3, and do doughnuts all day.
Wish they never discontinued the Nissan 240SX, now that was a sweet little car.

Oh, and for the Video Morph, that's an NSX, the sticker price is around 80,000. For that price, it's not in the same class as an M3. Put the NSX against other 80K sports cars and see where it ends up. Hell, don't get a sports car, get the new M5, and see who wins. The NSX should have gotten a V8........

The days where you could double the factory output without rebuilding the engine are over... Accountants rule the world now.

What I mean is in the early to mid-nineties Japan was in a economic bubble, manufacturing just managed to reach the tolerances commonplace today, 35K bought you more and no-one at the time even realised there was a tuner market.

What this translates to is car companies used to ba able to justify "loss leaders", engineers overdesigned engines and marketing people didn't think "gee, if backyard tuners could make our cars go faster and charge for it we should be making our cars faster from the factory to absorb some of that market".

If you look at it, Raz is right, even the cars that have been "reborn" are not tuner friendly... Most parts are either just minor bolt ons or they are factory racing packages... None of them support the huge HP gains that the mid-ninties Japanese GT cars did.

I'm not dissing the ones that are out now (you get more bang for the buck out of the factory today then you did back then)... But they are not "legendary" cars that will build a entire subculture around them.

I think that dipping in the cake of the aftermarket scene has mostly strungled the competitive edge that was there, due to Performance packages offered from the factory. Buying a base model, then modding it out to higher levels is pointless, because the performance model has those upgrades, and you still keep factory waranty. What this did, was drive up the cost of tunning a car since theyaren't tuner friendly, buy an M3 or M5, and the cost to add performance is the same as buying a civic. This brings in more revenue to dealers and STEALS it from the corner street tuner, yes the old days are gone, that's true.
But, the original beef was the 4 cyl anyway, I say have another edition, V6 TT, and make it like the STi RWD platform, and you'll have a big hit. look at the buzz the Skyline made, look at the sales of the 350Z and G35.
A RWD 3000GT TT wiould be cool as hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we keep in on a "that would be cool" front then yes, a RWD platfrom on a TT 6-cylinder engine would be nice to see again.

But I doubt we will see it in the near future as when the numbers are crunched, it was prohibitively expensive to engineer, manufacture and maintain the rats nest of piping and engine mods required to make a TT 6-cylinder engine work (Most people maintain their cars at the dealer when the car was under warranty and it was costing absurd amounts in labour just to change a timing belt).

There is always more forces at work then just the one you get when you apply the gas pedal.

The buzz surrounding the new Skyline and Supra is because of the mark these cars left in the auto industry. Not trying to be biased but the Mazdaspeed6 is really what other car manufacturers should be leaning towards. For the cost of such a piece of beauty (still much lower then it's competitors), you get almost the complete package. It's a sub 14 sec 1/4 mile stock, AWD, classy and seats 4!

Oh yum, I love that Eclipse. There's a picture of it somewhere that shows off the engine. The 4g63 only takes up half the room under the hood! I'll try and find it.

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/7357/mitsubishieclipseralliartconce.jpg (http://imageshack.us)