learning to drive a manual (5 speed)

im 17 and my family only have auto cars, and i wanted to learn how to drive and get my license. so i just learnt and passed the driving test on an automatic car. now i can get my own car soon (got a job) and i want to learn how to drive a manual as the car i want will be manual. how long does it take to learn? how hard is it to learn? any knacks or tricks that could help me? one of my friends are learning how to drive manual now and i was in his car while he was practising and it looked really hard compared to an automatic car. thanks in advance

Sure it's really hard - until it 'clicks'. It's like learning to ride a bike. What I'd recommend - because it's how I learned - is find a car with a lot of low-end torque, and a tachometer, and practice letting the clutch out sllloooowwllyyy with NO gas, until the car is rolling. This will give you a good feel for where the clutch engages. Every car is different this way but this is a good start. After that, you can try a slight up-hill. You will have to be fast, switching your foot from the brake to the gas, but eventually you will get it. When you try shifting, obviously don't start with speed shifting because you'll miss shifts and probably redline or worse. Start nice and slow, on level ground on a long, deserted straightaway. Get rolling in first, give it gas until you're above 3000-3500 rpm, then press the clutch all the way down, shift to second and slowly let the clutch out. Then of course proceed to third. You want to keep your RPMs between about 1800-2500 for coasting, but of course for power 2500-5000. This should give you a good start. Good luck.

Its not that hard. Just don't worry about stalling the engine a couple times, consider it a cost of buying a 5 speed. Find an empty parking lot or something, take along a passenger that knows how to drive if you can find one, and just drive around for a while. Just make sure you don't go too fast or rev the engine too much and you should be fine.

thanks for your replies guys, one more question, is having the clutch engaged and in 1st gear the same as just a auto in drive mode ? (no accelerator)

A manual with the clutch out, in 1st will move at approx the same speed as an auto in drive, if you are on level ground. Uphill, the manual would require some gas or else it might stall, whereas the auto prevents stalling.

if the car is already in gear, clutch engaged and in 1st gear, can u just press on the accelerator to make the car move faster without jerking or stalling?

When you say 'engaged' I am assuming you mean the pedal is out...

Yes, assuming the clutch is out, the car is in first, it will be rolling. You can then press the accelerator, and the car will begin to accelerate, and will keep accelerating clear up past redline if you let it. There aren't really any 'safety catches' on a manual, it won't prevent you from doing something harmful. The only safety is that it's impossible to shift straight back from 5th into reverse.

thanks for all ur help, im feeling abit more confident about learning how to drive stick. thanks again

If the clutch is engaged and you're in first gear but not giving it any gas, the car will die.

There is no simulation of the Drive gear in an automatic for a std transmission, it's a whole other ball game. It's easy to pick up, and if it's a daily driver you'll have no problem at all within a week. The only real problem is first gear and the killing thereof. I still (rarely) kill my dad's miata but it almost never happens anymore and its not even my car, he lets me drive it every once and a while. So if you drive it full time you'll be more than ok.

Originally posted by Bryan8412
If the clutch is engaged and you're in first gear but not giving it any gas, the car will die.


That wasn't true on my Sentra. I could let out the clutch INCREDIBLY slowly, and the torque would be able to get the car rolling, at about 2 miles an hour with NO gas whatsoever. This is also possible on my Dad's Spirit, and even easier there, because the Spirit has more low-end torque. Maybe the Miata has no low-end power, or maybe you're not letting the clutch out slow enough. I know, I put 22k on my Sentra in a year and it was a stick.

I know you could "let out the clutch INCREDIBLY slowly" and move, but could you have the clutch completely engaged and still move without gas? I assume thats what everyone else ment, because iwantlancergsr said nothing about gradually releasing the pedal.

yeah, there are lots of vehicles with closed-throttle torque output high enough to keep the vehicle moving. My mom's nissan pickup could idle up a hill w/o gas pedal help.

Originally posted by V.S.
I know you could "let out the clutch INCREDIBLY slowly" and move, but could you have the clutch completely engaged and still move without gas? I assume thats what everyone else ment, because iwantlancergsr said nothing about gradually releasing the pedal.

Yes, the tricky part is letting out the clutch without killing the car. This is only tricky in cars with little low-end torque. The reason the car dies, is that the engine doesn't have enough power to move the weight of the car, while still keeping itself moving. In my Dad's Spirit, which had more low end torque but less overall horsepower (at peak RPM) than my Sentra, it was very easy to get the car rolling. Once the clutch is out, the car will move forward slowly, and you'd have to try going up a hill to kill the engine once the clutch is fully out.

http://www.1440wnfl.com/Shared/Auto/tutorials/learnstick.html

Originally posted by V.S.
I know you could "let out the clutch INCREDIBLY slowly" and move, but could you have the clutch completely engaged and still move without gas? I assume thats what everyone else ment, because iwantlancergsr said nothing about gradually releasing the pedal.

When fooling around with my car I managed to go up to 3rd gear (30 km/h) without touching the accelerator :D

As for learning and stalling and stuff - 10 minutes at an empty car park should do it till the end of your life. What you do have to do first is learn the principle of how the clutch / gearbox work. Good luck.

ok sorry if this is the most stupid newbie question but....

when i drive my auto the engine revs never go above 4000rpm even if i almost floor it. i read some of the other forums and such, and i see people talking about how turbo only begins to kick in at around 5500rpm, and how mivec and vtec engines have their maximum power at 7600rpm and that power increases can be noticed until around 8500rpm. isnt pushing the engine revs that high bad for the engine? or is the engine built to handle that kind of performance (5500 - 8500rpm) and auto cars just keep the engine in the 'good and safe' rpm zones?

by the way thanks a lot for all your replies and tips. im learning more about cars everyday...

I wouldn't rev it that high all the time, as that can be harmful, but on occaision it's no biggie. I have an auto, (I had to buy a car on a week's notice, okay?) and the power peak is at 4800, but it lets me go to redline when floored. Also, if it's a new car, during the break in period (first 5000 miles or so) you shouldn't rev it higher than about 4000. Doing so would cause the engine to deteriorate faster, though you probably wouldn't see the effects for 60-100,000 miles.

Honda's vtec kicks in at 7600?? Isn't the redline 7000?

mitsubishi mivec engines have maximum torque at 7600rpm and its redline is around 8500rpm and rev limiter cuts in at 9000rpm. but the mivec kicks in around 5500rpm. sorry if it didnt come out right. im not sure about vtec, but i think mivec and vtec are basically the same thing just made by different companies. guess they redline at different rpms.

Originally posted by iwantlancergsr
mitsubishi mivec engines have maximum torque at 7600rpm and its redline is around 8500rpm and rev limiter cuts in at 9000rpm. but the mivec kicks in around 5500rpm. sorry if it didnt come out right. im not sure about vtec, but i think mivec and vtec are basically the same thing just made by different companies. guess they redline at different rpms.

Huh. My understanding is that Vtec is merely variable-valve timing, which is common on every brand of Japanese car nowadays. Personally, I would go for a car with a lower power peak, where you'll be getting max. power in normal driving. I mean, what good is max power at 7600 if you have to floor the car to get there? How often will you actually be running 7600 rpms? Esp. in a manny-tranny, you want a lower power peak.

I looked up the new civic coupe, max torque is as 4800, but max hp is at 6100 just for reference.

i read about the mivec info on someones site dedicated to mivec engines. i thought it was kinda weird that the mivec only started to increase performance at 5500rpm and has maximum torque at 7600rpm, but i think the idea behind mivec is that under 5500rpm, the motor acts like a normal 1.6L engine, but when you push the revs it gets an increase in performance.

The shifting for auto is controlled by the computer. It really depends on your car. You can throw in a new computer in there and program for higher redline.. but then again, if its automatic, you still ain't going no where.. and this will probably shorten the lifetime of your engine too, the reason for "redline" is to PROTECT the engine, when you hit it, the engine will be cut off, and you get no more power from it..

On jap cars, u can probably floor and get it up to ~5k, and then it'll shift automatically, or you can go to ~4k, and then release accelerator for a split second, and it'll shift.. but normal driving.. it'll shift at ~2k.. the reason? to save fuel... higher revs burn more fuel..

Ok, but my Auto Infiniti G20 lets me redline, which is at 7250. Only have twice, though.

Originally posted by iwantlancergsr
ok sorry if this is the most stupid newbie question but....

when i drive my auto the engine revs never go above 4000rpm even if i almost floor it. i read some of the other forums and such, and i see people talking about how turbo only begins to kick in at around 5500rpm, and how mivec and vtec engines have their maximum power at 7600rpm and that power increases can be noticed until around 8500rpm. isnt pushing the engine revs that high bad for the engine? or is the engine built to handle that kind of performance (5500 - 8500rpm) and auto cars just keep the engine in the 'good and safe' rpm zones?

by the way thanks a lot for all your replies and tips. im learning more about cars everyday...

The engine max speed depends on the engine, what it's designed for. Larger engines usually use lower engine speeds and smaller engines use higher. Truck diesels usually don't go over 4000 rpm, but F1 engines can go over 18'000 rpms. Most "normal" engines gives their best in the 5-6k range, and the rev. limiter is set a little above this.
Higher revs is a replacement for displacement, the same for boost pressure.

I have a question about the redline. My redline begins at 7500 and the tach goes up to 9000rpm. Now first, if you accidently redline(in a manual) will it hurt your engine really bad? And if you arent suppose to goes past 7500rpm then why does it go up to 9000rpm? And about the shifting in the auto's, it all matters the tranny. My car has a POWER button, which when pressed(and have the gas floored), will shift at 7000rpm, which is basically redlining. However when not pressed it will shift at 5500rpm max. And "the engine will be cut off" at the redline. What do you mean by that? It stops the fuel, or completely shut down the car. I redlined my car once in Neutral(Yes, I know it was stupid), and it made a really loud sound, like someone was skidding their car or something. But hey, its a Toyota it can take anything. :finger:

Originally posted by TrvlynAlec
I have a question about the redline. My redline begins at 7500 and the tach goes up to 9000rpm. Now first, if you accidently redline(in a manual) will it hurt your engine really bad? And if you arent suppose to goes past 7500rpm then why does it go up to 9000rpm? And about the shifting in the auto's, it all matters the tranny. My car has a POWER button, which when pressed(and have the gas floored), will shift at 7000rpm, which is basically redlining. However when not pressed it will shift at 5500rpm max. And "the engine will be cut off" at the redline. What do you mean by that? It stops the fuel, or completely shut down the car. I redlined my car once in Neutral(Yes, I know it was stupid), and it made a really loud sound, like someone was skidding their car or something. But hey, its a Toyota it can take anything. :finger:

well for starts the redline usually means you have 500-1000 rpm before your engine blows up. and the reason it goes farther is because what if you exceed it, it will stay at 7500? you have no idea if you've overstepped your boundry, especially in terms of top speed it would f*** you up. also some cars have computers that shut them off in an effort to save the engine. and the loud sound is probably the rear axel, at least it was when my friends car did a similar sound.

Go up to the redline and even over will not hurt the engine. But it's good to stay of the rev. limiter because it can let fuel out in the exhaust which can damage the catalytic converter.

Most manufacturers have tested their engines at max load and full speed for hours or even days in a row so they are sure it would last.

Originally posted by SaabJohan
Go up to the redline and even over will not hurt the engine. But it's good to stay of the rev. limiter because it can let fuel out in the exhaust which can damage the catalytic converter.

Most manufacturers have tested their engines at max load and full speed for hours or even days in a row so they are sure it would last.

umm the redline is there for a reason. correct me if im wrong but beyond the rev limiter, the valve is prone to being open while the cylinder is on its way up and the off of timing causes them to collide destroying the engine. and depending on the car, it can run rich at high RPMS below the redline because it may not be built for high RPMS and thus it cant supply enough air.

Manufacturers always set the redline lower than the real "limit" to be safe. But you can program the redline to be higher by throwing in a new computer. Some examples are the A'PEXi V-AFC, this can program a higher redline. Obviously, if you go too high, the engine will blow up. Problems could be from anything, but most will likely be due to heat.

If you REALLY want high rpm while being safe with it, you would need a better gear box to start with, and then coating parts with higher heat-capacity materials... but that would involve much mula and work..:licker:

Originally posted by BeEfCaKe
Manufacturers always set the redline lower than the real "limit" to be safe. But you can program the redline to be higher by throwing in a new computer. Some examples are the A'PEXi V-AFC, this can program a higher redline. Obviously, if you go too high, the engine will blow up. Problems could be from anything, but most will likely be due to heat.

If you REALLY want high rpm while being safe with it, you would need a better gear box to start with, and then coating parts with higher heat-capacity materials... but that would involve much mula and work..:licker:

yes but its much more than that. alot of it has to do with the stroke, rod ratio, etc. the shorter the stroke, the less distance the mass has to travel and thus less work and it's easier to run at higher speeds because less mass has to be pushed around. but you're right better materials that withstand heat and are stronger play there part as well, but usually people have to completely re-blue print the compression and everything and stroke/bore it out just right so the rod ratio is good, and the stroke is low etc etc etc and it costs lots of money.

Why redline anyway?? You're just risking damage to your engine (expensive), guzzling gas (expensive), and you're way past your power peak anyway, so you're not getting that much extra power for your efforts. The only possible benefit? Bragging about it. :rolleyes:

correct me if im wrong but beyond the rev limiter, the valve is prone to being open while the cylinder is on its way up and the off of timing causes them to collide destroying the engine
What you've just described is valve float. It can happen at any speed, depending on the stiffness of the springs.

Originally posted by 454Casull

What you've just described is valve float. It can happen at any speed, depending on the stiffness of the springs.

yes, but also at high speeds the camshaft may not be able to keep up with the pistons or most likely vice versa.

The camshaft can't keep up with the pistons? really? how does that happen?

The camshaft can't keep up with the pistons? really? how does that happen?
:D

Originally posted by ivymike1031
The camshaft can't keep up with the pistons? really? how does that happen?

:biggrin2: touche ;)

i was tired as hell, thats what happens when i get on here late at night with nothing to do :P

You don't need a better gearbox just because you're using higher revs. Engine torque is what destroys a gearbox.

The easiest way to change the rev. limiter is just to modify the software in the ecu.

The most common way to blow up an engine by over reving is by changing to a lover gear when the engine is going at max speed. Mechanical failure is a other way, but if the engine is original this practicly never happends.

When gearchanging for maximum performance you should always go over the engine power peak, there can of course be situations when gearshifting at lover engine rpm is to prefer.

If higher revs is wanted it can be smart to use stiff valve springs, short stroke, light pistons, light, stong and long conrods and use mechanical valvelifters.

Lets compare the stresses caused by engine speed in an original engine (in this case a Saab B234R with 225 hp) with the BMW M10 formula one engine which have over 1000 hp.
The engine specs are, the saabengine has 90mm stroke, rev limiter at 6500 rpm and 153 mm long conrods, the bmw engine has 65 mm stroke gives it best at around 12000 rpm (don't know the max speed), don't know the conrod length but say 150mm (this is over 2,3 times the stroke, which is very long conrods).

Original engine:
average piston speed: 19,5 m/s
max acceleration (at TDC): 26981,8 m/s^2
max piston speed at 75,2 and 284,8 degrees after TDC, max speed is 31,84 m/s

F1 engine
average piston speed: 26 m/s
max acceleration (at TDC): 62441,7 m/s^2
max piston speed at 78,5 and 281,5 degrees after TDC, max speed is 41,7 m/s

The max accelerations are i G, 2747,6 and 6358,6, this means that is the piston and crankpin weights 500 grams they will cause stresses in the conrods which are comparable with the stress caused by 1370 kg and 3180 kg weight hanging in them. And this stress is only caused by engine speed, not the combustionpressure.

oops, 60mm is the stroke in the F1 engine.

and this gives

average piston speed: 24 m/s
max acceleration (at TDC): 56848,9 m/s^2
max piston speed at 79,3 and 289,7 degrees after TDC, max speed is 38,4 m/s

this gives a acceleration of 5789 G, and the stress caused by a 500 gram piston and pistonpin is comparable with 2895 kg.

yes yes... thanks for the great details

Originally posted by SaabJohan
You don't need a better gearbox just because you're using higher revs. Engine torque is what destroys a gearbox.



The engine specs are, the saabengine has 90mm stroke, rev limiter at 6500 rpm and 153 mm long conrods, the bmw engine has 65 mm stroke gives it best at around 12000 rpm (don't know the max speed), don't know the conrod length but say 150mm (this is over 2,3 times the stroke, which is very long conrods).



I believe it's 17500 rpm, I haven't heard the M10 code, but I heard 17500 rpm for the latest Williams BMW.


Okay another question here, I also recently started driving standard, no real problems just wanna make sure that I can do everything well.

So the question is, My shifts are jerky, and how can I correct this, is it just the matter of tapping the gas with the clutch in, to keep engine momentum matched with the car's? (IE the clutch is turning at the same speed as the engine is ?)

Originally posted by Porsche


I believe it's 17500 rpm, I haven't heard the M10 code, but I heard 17500 rpm for the latest Williams BMW.


Okay another question here, I also recently started driving standard, no real problems just wanna make sure that I can do everything well.

So the question is, My shifts are jerky, and how can I correct this, is it just the matter of tapping the gas with the clutch in, to keep engine momentum matched with the car's? (IE the clutch is turning at the same speed as the engine is ?)

well if you shift quickly you're likely to jerk. unless you're REALLY good (where you shift, push in the clutch let off the gas at the same time, then engage the clutch and get on the gas at the same time very precise and perfect). You can shift slowly and smoothly: just be smooth in your foot work and take it easy. It's slower to shift but if thats what you want when you're not racing it should be fine.

Shifting smoothly should be a goal of yours. Smooth shifts make the ride for you and your passengers much more comfortable. After driving a stick shift for a while you will figure out the best speed and time to shift. When i drive my car i have goptten it so that when i shift by the time i have moved the shifter and am just about to release the clutch the RPMs are perfectly matched up. Now, obviously when i am getting on the highway or driving like an asshole my shifts are much harsher but there is no way around that. Just work on smoothing everythjiong out and eventually it will click.

You will learn to shift smoothly with time. I did it in about a month, with a bad clutch. It's just a matter of varying the cluth position and throttle position at the same time, in the right proportions.

On this whole thing about high RPM breakdowns, redline is not the magic point where the engine explodes for reasons unknown. My engine will run nearly 2000 RPM over redline to no ill effect (Nissan engineering) with stock internals. It's all a matter of how the engine is built and how timid the engineers are when it comes time to set the rev limiter. Valve float doesn't usually become a problem until you are waaay over redline anyway, plus some small engines (about the only ones you can get to high enough speeds for this) are non-interference type anyway.

The pistons can only move faster than the crankshaft if the con rods all break at the same time (and fling the pistons into the valves), or if someone puts a Voodoo curse on your car.

Your gearbox is not likely to suffer any harm from higher revs, although your clutch is. Remember, it has to bridge the gap between the crank speed and the input shaft speed. Now imagine you've just let the clutch out and are rapidly accelerating to 8000 RPM. Polished clutch, anyone? Of course, you have to have tons of power and accelerate very fast for this to be a problem, but it's still a legitimate concern.

As for the effect on the valvetrain, you will wear things out faster. In my opinion, the first (and maybe only) thing to attack here is the valves. If you can find titanium valves, buy them. If you can't, pay to have some made. The reduced valvetrain mass will take a lot of stress off of the valve springs, not to mention let you accelerate faster and keep making significant power further on up the tac. I can't stress this enough, Ti valves are great (good enough to convince a lot of people that they don't need a new cam)!

See, I don't need to quote anyone to make an obscenely long post!

[quote=iwantlancergsr]ok where do i began.i a new driver to a 5 speed i to was taught with automatic.but the past few days i have been searching for a car.been alot of places seen alot of junk.then i come across a 1997 acura 2.2 cl.its a sweet car.but its a 5 speed i was scared to buy it but a few days later i sucked up and bought it.i let it sit a few days because i was scared of it.but this is what i did to learn it u dont have to do the same but here is something that will get u boosted to drive one.i started by every night when no traffic was out and i drove it around the block.u know so i could practice stoping at stop signs. and taking off i stalled alot i even threw it it the wrong gear cause i was trying to speed shift.lol....then after 2 days of doing that i was driving by myself with no one in the car and out in traffic.one thing my instructor taught me was to find the g spot of the clucth and always clucth and brake when coming to a stop.u can either put it in neutral are downshift.with shifting down u will have to clucth are the car will stall.with it in neutral u can just use your brake.my first time on a hill i spun my tires so dont worry and good luck.

Whoa, baby... this thread is 7 years old. Don't ressurect old threads, they smell bad.