confusion

yes, i am confused.........why cant auto-makers build light cars with big horsepower?? i mean....take ford for example, why cant they drop one of their v8 or v6 motor into a light car such as a their Aspire(2000 lbs.) back in 94? or how come honda couldn't put the h22 or b18c into their civics?? or nissan with one of their v6 or more powerful inline four into thier sentra? should i continue? how about mitsubishi dropping the evo engine into the mirage (2100-2200 lbs)??

u guys know what im saying? why cant they do that? am i the only one who notices this?

Why don't you? You'll look cool if you do.

lol....that sounds like basiclly the story on how the shelby cobras were started. biggest engine avaliable in lightest body possible for it to be reliable or somethin....but y would u want a v8 or v6 in a civic if you get about 30mpg running low 15s with I/H/E cams, clutch, flywheel, and stripped interior...i think you would at least run a 15.2...(tell me if im wrong here)
or turbo/supercharge the inline 4 and still have better gas mileage than a v6 or v8?

yes ive noticed it, but it doesn't really bother me.
i wonder how much a tercel, paseo, and a mx-3 weigh in @. does any one know? mx-3 might be my next car if its hella light and there is a good known engine swap.

They can do that. but why? thats the question.

B18's and H22's in Civics...

A Civic is considered an Economy car. When you start dropping anything other then a D-series motor into civics, you are start giving up your economy (mpg) and reliability.

Not everyone is a racer, not everyone wants 200hp in a light car. More Horsepower, the more you have to worry about traction.

Traction = More money being put into the car by the manufacturers

More Money means that honda and nissan can't produce their cars at the same cheap price, and make the same profits.

There are tons more reasons as to why car manufacturers don't drop larger engines into lighter cars, but those are just a few.

You want a quick Honda and horsepower???

get an S2000.

pay more and get more.

lol....that sounds like basiclly the story on how the shelby cobras were started. biggest engine avaliable in lightest body possible for it to be reliable or somethin....but y would u want a v8 or v6 in a civic if you get about 30mpg running low 15s with I/H/E cams, clutch, flywheel, and stripped interior...i think you would at least run a 15.2...(tell me if im wrong here)
or turbo/supercharge the inline 4 and still have better gas mileage than a v6 or v8?

yes ive noticed it, but it doesn't really bother me.
i wonder how much a tercel, paseo, and a mx-3 weigh in @. does any one know? mx-3 might be my next car if its hella light and there is a good known engine swap.


I used to have a paseo, they weigh in at about 2200lbs.

And to point out again, civics and other little cars such as tercels are based on being cheap affordable economy cars.

So lets break it down..


Bigger Engine means more money and lower amount of MPG -
More money means less affordable -

so what are you left with?

A car.

yep a car....i dont want this to turn into a flame war over civics are econ cars and the Si version wasn't, and all that mess.....

but basiclly rice(er), thats your answer

this is basiclly your question rice(er), y should we not put a v12 in a dodge omni for the normal car consumer? that's not exactly you're question, but it should give u an idea of your answer

well, you guys kinda answered my question, but the real question is......why are you guys still on here this late at night? :nono: jk, well, anyways....im still kinda confuse, how come no one has done this before though? or am i just blind? a 2000 lbs car with over 200+ hp from the factory, they could build a hybrid car for their "economy" models, know what im saying here? or a turbo that dont spool untill 3-4k rpm and the car would still be an economy car since its not always on boost and eating gas, right? you can probably still get a good 25-30 mpg driven carefully or what not, right? i mean, at least for their "performance" cars, a light car with big horsepower would make anyone happy

and as for the expense, im sure a couple thousand $$ wouldn't make a difference? im pretty sure there is a way around the expense$$

and for chiq, the tercel, paseo, and mx-3 are pretty light cars, they're right there with civics, but if i were you and had to choose between those 3, i'd probably go with the mx-3 with the v6, the paseo and tercel would have to be swapped for any major gains, and swaps cost $$$ good luck choosing though, i remember i had a hard time choosing as well

an evo is based off the mirage. want proof?

mirage

http://www.autoseekandsell.com/userimages/Mitsubishi%20Mirage%20-%20Side%20&%20Back%20view.JPG

evo 4-5-6

http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/CasualAds_images/2299159_2_m.jpg

you see the mirage was actually the lancer in japan. the older gen EVO's from I to 6 where feather weight compared to now. they usually weight in from 2700-2800lbs with AWD and all. the reason why you can't just dump such a engine into a mirage is that it would cause a ridiculous amount of wheel spin without ultra high grip tires with a limited slip differential. and also their original econo box chassis can't take that kind of power for a long time. they need to beef up the chassis to handle the power accordingly. when you start adding power you need to give it better brakes, you need to give it better suspension, more structural rigidity, stronger tranny, bigger tires and wheels. all these things adds weight. and a mirage does not weight 2200lbs. its more like 2500 lbs. so with a added weight of only 200-300 lbs for all that is very very good.

yes, i am confused.........why cant auto-makers build light cars with big horsepower?? i mean....take ford for example, why cant they drop one of their v8 or v6 motor into a light car such as a their Aspire(2000 lbs.) back in 94? or how come honda couldn't put the h22 or b18c into their civics?? or nissan with one of their v6 or more powerful inline four into thier sentra? should i continue? how about mitsubishi dropping the evo engine into the mirage (2100-2200 lbs)??

u guys know what im saying? why cant they do that? am i the only one who notices this?

Nissan did put in a good 4 cylinder into their Sentra's, back in the early 90s with the Sentra SE-R. SR20DE (non turbo) but in a light weight chassis that could handle. They go like stink.

And Mitsubishi did put the "Evo" motor into the Mirage, back in the day before EVO there was the Mirage VR4. Then the EVO I came out in 1992 based on the Mirage chassis.


but y would u want a v8 or v6 in a civic if you get about 30mpg running low 15s with I/H/E cams, clutch, flywheel, and stripped interior...i think you would at least run a 15.2...(tell me if im wrong here)
or turbo/supercharge the inline 4 and still have better gas mileage than a v6 or v8?


when did he say putting V6s or V8's into a Civic? :p

lol....that sounds like basiclly the story on how the shelby cobras were started. biggest engine avaliable in lightest body possible for it to be reliable or somethin....but y would u want a v8 or v6 in a civic if you get about 30mpg running low 15s with I/H/E cams, clutch, flywheel, and stripped interior...i think you would at least run a 15.2...(tell me if im wrong here)
or turbo/supercharge the inline 4 and still have better gas mileage than a v6 or v8?

yes ive noticed it, but it doesn't really bother me.
i wonder how much a tercel, paseo, and a mx-3 weigh in @. does any one know? mx-3 might be my next car if its hella light and there is a good known engine swap.

The original Shelby Cobra only had the 289 in it, the 427 wasn't till the next generation. There was actually a concern for weight with that car and the 289 was the lightest V8 at the time. That made the car the beast that it was.

this here red neck....

...take ford for example, why cant they drop one of their v8 or v6 motor into a light car such as a their Aspire(2000 lbs.) back in 94? or how come honda couldn't put the h22 or b18c into their civics?? or nissan with one of their v6 or more powerful inline four into thier sentra? should i continue? how about mitsubishi dropping the evo engine into the mirage (2100-2200 lbs)....

im not seeing things from partying too much yesterday morning.....

this here red neck....



im not seeing things from partying too much yesterday morning.....


Yeah, but if you read what he said, he said putting H22's and B18's into Civics. Not V6's or V8's. The other brands yes. Not Honda's.

Specifics my dear friend... Specifics. :evillol:

ok ok...one mistake for u redneck.....ricer(er), according to the pic a girl..........

idk the smilies...maybe

::powned:: ?

im gettin tired of u pwning me..... first was my sig pic, now this.....aye, i wonder wats next.... how about saying i wanna swap a inline 4 in a vette since my LS1 is guzzling gas....

no flame war please lol

redneck i would have to correct you on something. theres no such thing as a mirage vr4. haha its a gallant vr4 which is basically the same size if not smaller then the last gen mirages.

And Im not sure if it was mentioned, but every manu. of cars like mitsu or ford have to keep an average MPG for all their cars as a whole. So lets say if the average is 25mpg, and ford has 23mpg averaged, they have to pay big fines. That is why they come out with the cheap econo cars in my opinion.

I think Tat summed it up pretty well. If you dump a V8 into an economy car without any modifications it becomes an extremely dangerous car for you and everyone else on the road

So you have to upgrade all the underlying parts to the car increasing its weight to the point where its just another V8 relatively heavy car

I kept almost typing things and than back spacing over them realizing that there was nothing that I could type that would be news to anyone. Everyone knows why not every little car is offered with a V8 option.

You want a quick Honda and horsepower???

get an S2000.

pay more and get more.
LOL you ain't getting shit but let down spending that kinda money for a 14 second car :lol:

redneck i would have to correct you on something. theres no such thing as a mirage vr4. haha its a gallant vr4 which is basically the same size if not smaller then the last gen mirages.


doh doh doh, yeah you're right... :D

ok ok...one mistake for u redneck.....ricer(er), according to the pic a girl..........

idk the smilies...maybe

::powned:: ?



He is a dude, he's already clarified that in a post. :smokin:

And Im not sure if it was mentioned, but every manu. of cars like mitsu or ford have to keep an average MPG for all their cars as a whole. So lets say if the average is 25mpg, and ford has 23mpg averaged, they have to pay big fines. That is why they come out with the cheap econo cars in my opinion.

actualy if you put a big engine into a light ass car, the engine will barely waste any fuel esp if you put in a 6th gear. since the car is so light, you can gear it to go 300mph in 6th and still pull decent on the highway.

LOL you ain't getting shit but let down spending that kinda money for a 14 second car :lol:

lol... Quick compared to your 17 second D series lol. not quick by any racing standards. :grinno:

I said paying more gets you more. i didn't say it gets you the best by any means.

14sec car> 17 sec car

lol... Quick compared to your 17 second D series lol. not quick by any racing standards. :grinno:

I said paying more gets you more. i didn't say it gets you the best by any means.

14sec car> 17 sec car
Oh really tell me more about my D series I havn't had one of them for over a year....

A brand new s2k would get fucking RIPPED on by my hatch or my z28 both together even adding mods would be 15K cheaper too.

Yes though most of the time more gets you faster car should put a car with good bang for buck.

but the s2k isn't really made for going in a straight line u see. they were made for handling reasons. it has 50/50 weight distribution and a great suspention for hitting turns....now if u wanted to just go fast in a straight line, well then there are other cars, like v8s and such. so if you wanted to say this i understand

Gt mustang> s2k ------in straight line

now if on a twisty course/track w/e

s2k> stang, z28, basiclly all american cars(generally speaking) that are under 30k

edit : o and redneck i remember the thread talking about it, since i think it was mushashi said there are times where we dont know wether rice(er) is a boy a girl, i never did read that post in it though

S2k is a poor mans boxster its still a honda its not as good at handling as people think nor is it as fast.

Honda wanted to overcharge to sell and compete with classier cars like the boxster z4 etc

MSmitia > s2k.

Lets go back to price 10K into an SRT-4 ACR you'll run circles around s2ks.

They S200 is not a race car its a sporty car for middle aged men too poor for a real roadster but not getting a mitia.

S2k is a poor mans boxster its still a honda its not as good at handling as people think nor is it as fast.

Honda wanted to overcharge to sell and compete with classier cars like the boxster z4 etc

MSmitia > s2k.

Lets go back to price 10K into an SRT-4 ACR you'll run circles around s2ks.

They S200 is not a race car its a sporty car for middle aged men too poor for a real roadster but not getting a mitia.


Guess i didn't come off clear. (obviously i didn't and for that i apologize)

I've read about your old hatch, i know that it was fast. I'm just talking stock for stock.

Not everyone is a Tuner, not everyone is a streetracer, not everyone wants to make their car faster or tinker with it. (95% of these people are not in this forum.. lol.)

My point was that civics are focused more on economy from the factory, whereas the S2k is focused more on performance (No, i'm not sayin the S2k is a beast and everyone should bow down to it).


I'm hoping i made myself a little bit more clear, however if i didn't i'll try and give it another shot.


:uhoh:

pretty much all the old muscle cars were built that way; they tried to be decently lightweight, have big engines, be striped down in luxury, and be affordable to the younger buyers...

dodge charger srt8- 4160 pounds.....ouch only 200 less then the new explorer, that is a big honking vehicle

if that 425 hp came in a lighter, more appealing looking package, It would be a much higher priority on my vehicles to buy list.

Anyone know how much the challenger is supposed to weigh?

Guess i didn't come off clear. (obviously i didn't and for that i apologize)

I've read about your old hatch, i know that it was fast. I'm just talking stock for stock.

Not everyone is a Tuner, not everyone is a streetracer, not everyone wants to make their car faster or tinker with it. (95% of these people are not in this forum.. lol.)

My point was that civics are focused more on economy from the factory, whereas the S2k is focused more on performance (No, i'm not sayin the S2k is a beast and everyone should bow down to it).


I'm hoping i made myself a little bit more clear, however if i didn't i'll try and give it another shot.


:uhoh:
ahhh okie dokie.

All I meant, if you were factoring bang for buck was the s2000 is not where its at.

nice to clear things up for both us :)