Replaced water pump and timing belt, plugs, wires, dist. cap & rotor on my 1992 V6 , 3zve engine. I lined up the timing marks. The rotor should point to the #1 cyl. & TDC when crankshaft timing mark is checked. Bolting on the distributor cap with the 3 screws lines up the #1 wire location as marked on the cap @ about 1 o'clock and the rotor points just to the left of #2 wire location at 10:45 o'clock as marked on the cap. The rotor doesn't point to any definite wire location. I attached the wires and the engine cranks but doesn't fire. I checked for spark and fuel and both are present. According to everything I've read the rotor should point to the #1 wire location on the dist. cap when the engine is at TDC for cyl. 1. Should I adjust the distributor to line the rotor up with the location of #1 wire as marked on the cap ? If so, how do you adjust the distributor on this engine.

We're walking right now as my little B2200 pick-up has just now lost its brakes. I could really use some help!
Thanks.

Sounds like you know what your doin'. to insure that you indeed have the #1 cylinder at TDC carefully run a long rod down the spark plug hole,notice that the timing mark is on TDC? Us a rod long enough that you don't lose it down the cylinder. If not start over with the timming belt

Thanks for your reply Augie.

I did what you suggested and the #1 cyl. is at TDC when the timing mark notch on the pulley is lined up with the zero mark on the timing plate. The rotor still points to a location where there isn't any terminal on the dist. cap.

I'll just assume you timed everything correctly by the book. You simply used the wrong cam alignment & the right distributor alignment.

Doesn't matter which TDC the cams are at on the 3vz-fe as long as the distributor is on the opposite stroke.


Pull your distributor off, spin the rotor 180*, bolt it back in - problem solved, Set your base timing to 10*btdc, or see the FAQ where I say lean the AFM a few clicks & set the timing to 17*btdc for a little better throttle transision & more mid-high rpm punch.






If it runs really funny when you do it, you've fudged cam, and distrubor timing. Take everything off & start again.

I'll just assume you timed everything correctly by the book. You simply used the wrong cam alignment & the right distributor alignment.

Doesn't matter which TDC the cams are at on the 3vz-fe as long as the distributor is on the opposite stroke.


Pull your distributor off, spin the rotor 180*, bolt it back in - problem solved, Set your base timing to 10*btdc, or see the FAQ where I say lean the AFM a few clicks & set the timing to 17*btdc for a little better throttle transision & more mid-high rpm punch.


If it runs really funny when you do it, you've fudged cam, and distrubor timing. Take everything off & start again.

Toysrme...Thanks for your input.

I admit to being confused.
I'm going to do the 180* change but I don't understand what is meant by using the wrong cam alignment and the right distributor alignment.

When I turn the distributor 180* do you use the same numbers on the cap for the wires ? e.g. #1 terminal is now at 6 o'clock or do I put the #1 cyl. wire into the #5 marked terminal on the cap which would be located where the #1 terminal should be as shown on the diagram in the manual ?

You say I may have to take everything off and start again. Do you mean right back at reinstalling the timing belt ? If I have to do this what do you do different ?

Thanks.

I would take Timming belt off,insure cam marks are at the top,crank pully at TDC mark, reinstale belt & double check marks. sounds to me like the cam marks are off. its easy to slip a notch during instilation. I know what a bear it is with no room to see much less manuver. Bill

No... What I'm telling you is the printed directions don't work.

Forget everything about the pistons. It doesn't matter if it's on itnake, or exhaust top dead center. The reaosn is because the bottom end of the VZ blocks do not have any sensors to confuse. Those are located in the distributor (Cam & crank angle sensors i.e. NE & G1 G2 G-). The Computer cares what the distributor says.


If you don't understand that, just forget it. The bottom end needs to say 0* & that's it.






Printed directions tell you to set the cams at the sets of 2 alignment dots & then set the distributor alignment marks together.

That is 100% incorrect. You will have spark at exactly the opposite time that you want it.





You need to do either of the the things I'm telling you & it DOES NOT matter which one you do (Cause like I told you first, the computer doesn't care what the bottom end says, only the distributor).



1) Take everything off & do it 100% correctly. Align the cams by the SINGLE alignment dots & align the distributor dots.


OR
2) Simply take the distributor off, turn the rotor 180* & reinstall it.

It doesn't make a shit to the computer, it's the same end result either way.

















Take the distributor off, turn the rotor 180* & reinstall it. it'll fire right up. Then put a timing light on it. Correct timing when you're in diagnostic mode is 10*btdc. If you want a little more performance read the FAQ where I talked about it.

You need to understand... The instructions can't be taken literally when it comes to alignment.


You can either align the cams to the pair of dots & have the distributor rotor 180* off, or you can align the cams to the single dots & align the distributor like the manuals tell you.



You can't do both, or else you get spark in the opposite time you want it. (180* of crankshaft rotation off)

No... What I'm telling you is the printed directions don't work.

Forget everything about the pistons. It doesn't matter if it's on itnake, or exhaust top dead center. The reaosn is because the bottom end of the VZ blocks do not have any sensors to confuse. Those are located in the distributor (Cam & crank angle sensors i.e. NE & G1 G2 G-). The Computer cares what the distributor says.


If you don't understand that, just forget it. The bottom end needs to say 0* & that's it.

Printed directions tell you to set the cams at the sets of 2 alignment dots & then set the distributor alignment marks together.

That is 100% incorrect. You will have spark at exactly the opposite time that you want it.
You need to do either of the the things I'm telling you & it DOES NOT matter which one you do (Cause like I told you first, the computer doesn't care what the bottom end says, only the distributor).
1) Take everything off & do it 100% correctly. Align the cams by the SINGLE alignment dots & align the distributor dots.


OR
2) Simply take the distributor off, turn the rotor 180* & reinstall it.

It doesn't make a shit to the computer, it's the same end result either way.

Take the distributor off, turn the rotor 180* & reinstall it. it'll fire right up. Then put a timing light on it. Correct timing when you're in diagnostic mode is 10*btdc. If you want a little more performance read the FAQ where I talked about it.



I took the distributor out and rotated the rotor 180* but I could not reinstall the distributor. Rotated back and the distributor would go back in. How do you rotate the rotor 180* and reinsert. It seems there is a difference. What do i do now ?

Thanks.

I took the distributor out and rotated the rotor 180* but I could not reinstall the distributor. Rotated back and the distributor would go back in. How do you rotate the rotor 180* and reinsert. It seems there is a difference. What do i do now ?

Thanks.

I haven't heard back from Toysrme regarding turning the distributor 180* and reinserting it. He probably has not seen my reply or an email I sent.
I have the distributor out and would like to put it in as Toysrme has instructed. As you see above it won't go back with the rotor turned 180*.

Has anyone else out there performed this operation?
I have been trying to get this car back to operation for a quite awhile !!!!

Your help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

You need to understand... The instructions can't be taken literally when it comes to alignment.


You can either align the cams to the pair of dots & have the distributor rotor 180* off, or you can align the cams to the single dots & align the distributor like the manuals tell you.



You can't do both, or else you get spark in the opposite time you want it. (180* of crankshaft rotation off)


I sent an email to Toysrme. In addition the info. should be available for everyone.

I tried to rotate my distributor 180* and the tabs on the end of the rotor that fit into the end of the camshaft are NOT interchangable on my engine.

I have a 3ve on a 1992 camry. If they are interchangeable on all other engines of this model I have one that is unique. There is an offset of 2 mm from one side to the other lined up on the centreline on the tabs.

Can anyone tell me if the small oin is removeable from each side that holds the tab piece ? If it can be remove the tab can be reversed and then the rotor can be rotated 180* to set up the timing.

Has anyone else ran into this ?

I don't understand the issue Toysrme is bringing up with the reversed distributor, since I don't have the instructions he is referring to in front of me.

To get this straightened out, I suggest you go back in and remove the timing belt (or at least remove the tension on the belt so that you can change the cam timing). Set the #1 piston at TDC and rotate the cams to line up the timing marks, as written in the manual.

At this point (with clockwise rotation as facing the front of the engine) both the exhaust and intake valves for #1 cylinder should be closed and the intake cam lobe having just allowed the valves to close (at ~270 deg of rotation from cam lobe opposite valve lifter, since it closed ~180 degrees of crank rotation prior to TDC on compression stroke) and the exhaust cam lobe should be somewhere around 90 degrees of rotation (since it will open the exhaust valve somewhere around 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation from TDC on ignition stroke).

When the distributor is installed, the rotor should be around the firing position for #1 cylinder.

The above approximation should give you some confidence in the correct timing marks on the cam sprockets. Some engines have more than one type of mark on the valve sprockets or head and this can be confusing.

Then install the timing belt to align the timing marks approximated by the above guestimation. Recheck the valve timing at #1 TDC compression stroke after you have rotated the crank two revolutions with tension on the belt. Recheck the distributor rotor alignment.

Be consistent about which timing marks you use on both banks.

If after all this, the timing marks line up and your distributor rotor is way off of firing #1 plug, there are only two possibilities I can think of. One is you are still using the wrong timing marks or you are not installing the distributor cap in the correct orientation.

There are timing belt installation instructions at:
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/13/e6/07/0900823d8013e607.jsp

^
3vz-fe.

Keep trying. Like Brain said, if it comes down to it, strip the whole thing apart & start with #1 pistons @ tdc & re-align the cams.

^
3vz-fe.

Keep trying. Like Brain said, if it comes down to it, strip the whole thing apart & start with #1 pistons @ tdc & re-align the cams.


I stripped everything down and started over.

Lined the crankshaft pulley notch with 0* on the cover.
Put the belt on took it up to the Left Hand cam sprocket, lined the sprocket up to the mark as described and had a bit of tension on the belt between the LH cam sprocket and crankshaft.

Looked at Left Hand cam sprocket and found 2 sets of marks. The one I used was marked "E3" on the sprocket. Put the belt on with tensioner. Looked at rotor and it was pointing to the #1 terminal on the cap. Rotated the crankshaft the 720* and all the marks lined up including the rotor. Put everything back together ( the right side motor mount cast bracket is really tough to put in....finally left one bolt out.... lower bottom right )

Took the IAC valve off and cleaned it. Turned the ignition and it fired up. Finally success.

One small problem to solve.. The idle speed is high....over 2000 revs and as it warms.... idle drops down to normal then kicks back up and keeps doing this.

Thanks Toyserme and Brian for your help. It's much appreciated.

You're welcome. For the high idle, check your ECT sensor and it's circuit.

Oh wierd, last time I rebuilt mine, it did the exact same thing. It was because the throttle cable was pulling the throttle plate open 1/16" of an inch from closed.

Oh wierd, last time I rebuilt mine, it did the exact same thing. It was because the throttle cable was pulling the throttle plate open 1/16" of an inch from closed.


I tried to adjust the throttle cable to see if my throttle plate was the same as yours. I couldn't adjust it. I took the EGR valve off and cleaned it....actually it was very clean.

Is there some other way to adjust the throttle cable ?

Brian suggested checking the ECT sensor and it's circuit. I'm not sure what what ECT means...I think it stands for Engine Control Throttle ???
Seems like a silly question !!! Couldn't find reference to it in my literature.

Any help with this will be appreciated. When I fire up the revs are at 2000...very high......it sits there for a minute and then occilated down to around 700 and back up to 2200.

Engine Coolant Temperature

Farthest I've seen one run on the coolant temp sensor is like 1500rpm by someone tuning their engine with a pot. That's a good thing to chekc tho.

Pull your throttle cable completely off, then start it & see how it idles.

In winter when they've sat all night, engines will idle at 2000 or around there initially.

In winter when they've sat all night, engines will idle at 2000 or around there initially.


I drove my wife in this morning and drove back...total round trip would be 10 miles and everytime I slowed, the revs would go up to 2500 and back down to around 900 continuously. When braking they would settle back to around a 1000 with my foot on the brake. Accelerating, the cycle would stop. When I slowed and stopped.... sitting in park or neutral the engine continued to go up and down on a 1-2 second cycle.

In our part of the country cold temps. are normal this time of the year and sitting at a start-up rev. rate of 2000 is not unusual and this has been normal for the car since I purchased it in 1997. Something has happened since I did all the work to it. In addition to timing belt, dist. cap & rotor, new plugs and wires, I cleaned the throttle plate, EGR valve and IAC. This cycling has started since all this was done.

What would be the affect if I removed one at a time out of the system.... the EGR valve ? I've read where the EGR valve sticks...would this cause the engine to accel. and deaccel. on a rapid basis ? the ECT sensor ? The ECU would lack signals from the ECT sensor....how does the engine react to this ? I'm thinking of ways to isolate the cause and then rectify.
My experience is limited...it's a learning process for me !

Any assistance is certainly welcomed and is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Murray

Farthest I've seen one run on the coolant temp sensor is like 1500rpm by someone tuning their engine with a pot. That's a good thing to chekc tho.

Pull your throttle cable completely off, then start it & see how it idles.


I'll give it a go in the moning.
Thanks

The ECT sensor may give false readings that are time-dependent. Although your symptoms are weird, there is no way of knowing until you test the sensor. Pull the connector from the sensor and see what voltage is output. If it's a stable voltage, then the ECT is not the problem. The TPS (throttle position sensor) may also send bad data to the ECM.

You're welcome. For the high idle, check your ECT sensor and it's circuit.


I went out to remove throttle cable as Toysrme suggested and test the ECT voltage as Brian advised, before I did this I put a diagnostic on the Check Engine and it was flashing Code 1....no problems. I started up and the engine revved fine. I took it out on our street and everything was fine..... idled at 2000 ...not surprising with our temperature -6 C. So at this time it appears to have corrected itself. I have no idea how !

On the drive my ABS light clicked on and I had a right rear wheel lock up. Removed the tire and rotor after much difficulty and found the emergengy must have locked on and not come off at some point....didn't realize. The brake shoe material cracked off.....thickness about 1 mm.
I hate to admit....but I didn't realize the emergency was tied into a brake shoe system.

One never stops learning and I'm into 6 decades ! It's still great and a good feeling when you get the job done, specifically when I had one of my sons keep telling me just to take it into the repair shop! I can see his side.....I've been working in half my garage open to the weather since this repair popped it's head up due to starting the renovation of the garage into a den.

Now posted in classifieds for a good Toyota OEM parts source in Ontario for brakes.

Thanks to everyone for their kind input.It is much appreciated. This is a very commendable site.

You're welcome. I hope it stays gone.