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What's the BEST oil and filter?


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sheetmagnet
12-01-2005, 03:00 AM
Well a couple months ago I did the spark plug question and poll, which got active again lately, so now I thought I would do the oil and filter poll. Now, due to the NUMEROUS options behind oil viscousities and brands, I limited the poll to the most popular brands and weights, but any input is welcome obviously. Post your vote and share your experience!

(Please reply with text for any outstanding filter advice or questions... sorry, there were just too many filter/oil combinations to include the filter in the post)

das2123
12-01-2005, 08:37 AM
*Mobil 1 Full Synthetic (Probably the best for everyday use and keeps your engine running smooth for a long time)
*AMS-Oil (Don't know much about it, but have heard very good things)
*Quaker State Synthetic (I have tried it and it worked)
*Castrol Syntec (Synthetic belnds are crap, don't waste your money)
*Pennzoil (The original is hard to beat)
*Royal Purple Synthetic (Best for racing applications)
*Other oil, conventional petroleum grade (If you change your oil every 3000 miles, then conventional works great)

I personally use regular Pennzoil in my car, for everyday use. If I were tougher on my car, I would use Mobil 1 and change the filter every 3000 miles and top of the oil. Maybe actually change the oil twice a year.

neon_rt
12-01-2005, 01:02 PM
Here is some Oil for thought.
I have been doing some research and found that Shell has a product for Diesel engines called Rotella and Rotella Synthetic. The Synthetic is 5-40 grade and contains considerably more anti-wear and detergent additives than any gas only grade motor oils. According to some others that were researching, the Rotella is certified for most gas engines but is not certified for the latest revision because it contains too much anti-wear agents which could possibly result in Cat converter fouling in a oil consuming engine. So... is having too much anti-wear ingredients a good thing or bad? I thought it was a good think actually unless your engine is burning oil already. BTW Rotella synthetic is only $13 a gallon at the local department store.

ttiiggy
12-03-2005, 09:52 PM
Please reply with text for any outstanding filter advice or questions... sorry, there were just too many filter/oil combinations to include the filter in the postGood read on oil.
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article105.html

sheetmagnet
12-07-2005, 12:59 AM
Here is some Oil for thought.
I have been doing some research and found that Shell has a product for Diesel engines called Rotella and Rotella Synthetic. The Synthetic is 5-40 grade and contains considerably more anti-wear and detergent additives than any gas only grade motor oils. According to some others that were researching, the Rotella is certified for most gas engines but is not certified for the latest revision because it contains too much anti-wear agents which could possibly result in Cat converter fouling in a oil consuming engine. So... is having too much anti-wear ingredients a good thing or bad? I thought it was a good think actually unless your engine is burning oil already. BTW Rotella synthetic is only $13 a gallon at the local department store.

I just finished working in a factory for 7 years, and we used Rotella in our vacuum pumps. Imagine a 500-lb supercharger spinning at 3000 rpm for a year straight, never stopping, with no filtering... then draining the oil out to see that it is still relatively clean. I would have tried this oil in a motor if I had a chance. And as far as the catalytic converter thing... the auto companies hate that problem. Basically, a thicker oil or a conventional oil with more petroleum impurities in it will clog a catalytic converter faster than a lighter-weight, conventional oil... which is why Ford decided to go with 5W-20 synthetic in many of their vehicles... because they got tired of catalytic converter warranty work $$$

TEXSRT4
12-07-2005, 02:21 AM
royal purple is ok, but redline and amsoil are better.

your not going to find an oil that surpasses amsoil in any market. we run them in all of our race cars and street cars! do some reading on it. its so good, that they recommed oil changed at 35,000 miles with their 0w-30 oil (filter change every 3000-5000 miles, and a drain and fill at 35,000). coming very soon (like in a week or 2) there filters are coming out that only require being changed every 15,000-20,000 miles. whats even better, is their guarentee. if your motor dies, due to wear, they will not only pay for a new motor, but also the labor to install it! they also offer a test option, where you can send them a bit of your oil. they will test it and give you a print out of the additives still left in it! that way you know exactly how your oil is doing.

das2123
12-07-2005, 08:24 AM
they also offer a test option, where you can send them a bit of your oil. they will test it and give you a print out of the additives still left in it! that way you know exactly how your oil is doing.Kind of like asking the fox to watch the hen house. Free oil analysis isn't very good nor thorough. Just like anything in life, if you want quality, you gotta pay for it. I work in an oil analysis lab and have seen the "free" oil analysis campaign. Your basically paying for it through the cost of the oil.

TEXSRT4
12-07-2005, 09:29 PM
no, its not free. you do pay for it. i apologise if ti read that way. no, they charge you for it. yes the oil is not the cheapest, but if you do the math, its actually cheaper to run than most other oils

DetroitMuscle
01-05-2006, 12:30 PM
This is a good read


http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

nuwt
02-25-2006, 12:35 AM
I do not own a vehicle that has less than 100,000 miles on it. I own 1 with over 200,000, 270,000 to be exact, and I use the cheapest oil. I just change it fairly regular, 5,000 miles, and i dog my vehicles.I drive 70+ and start and go with no warm up. On my last oil change I bought Fred's Brand oil for a dollar a quart. Fred's is close to Dallor general Store. I have not used synthetic oil cause its to pricey. My other vehicles have around 115,000 and does not use enough oil to add between oil changes. I own a chevy, A dodge and a Saturn. My ford blew up 2 moters before 100,000 so I junked it. So I don't believe oil has alot to do with engine wear. I think it depends on how well it was built.
BTW
I sold a Fiero with 179,000 and it didnt use any oil between oil changes either. Just blew the clutch out on it.

das2123
02-25-2006, 11:38 AM
So I don't believe oil has alot to do with engine wear. I think it depends on how well it was built.Oil has everything to do with engine wear! Now whether a synthetic is better than mineral can be argued over and over again. nuwt, has a valid point, if you change your oil regularly then engine wear can be minimized greatly regardless of oil type. But make no mistake about it, synthetic oils DO MINIMIZE wear better than mineral oils.

onerchprk
02-25-2006, 01:55 PM
I have never use any synthetic oils in my cars but i use Castrol GTX in all my cars with Fram filters and all my cars have had over 150,000 miles on them. My Trans Sport has 166,000 miles and my Neon has 180,000 miles...Last 2 cars 1990 Aerostar had 210,000 miles when sold and my 89 Reliant had 320,000 miles so i am sticking with my GTX and Fram Filters...

BlazerLT
02-28-2006, 01:07 AM
Just remember guys, not all synthetics are TRUE synthetics, some are just a;tered conventional oil.

The only true synthetics are:

Mobil1
Amsoil
Redline

das2123
02-28-2006, 02:43 AM
The only true synthetics are:

Mobil1
Amsoil
Redline
Motul
Royal Purple
Neo Synthetics
Synergyn
Torco
Elf

Those are other true synthetics.

BlazerLT
02-28-2006, 02:51 AM
Those are not exactly easily available but Royal Purple.

Royal purple is not a true 100% synthetic. It is a Group 4 and 5 with a Group 3 basestock.

Not true PAO like the ones I have listed earlier.

sub006
03-02-2006, 07:01 PM
Before we get into oil, let me say I have found K & N oil filters to work best under severe conditions. While Fram and Purolator trumpet claims of 96% and 98% efficiency, K & N states 90%. Sounds like the ring of truth to me!

In addition to the K & N HP3002 filters, my 400,000-mile Suburban runs on 5W-30 Castrol full Syntec. My cold oil pressure (55 lbs) and warm freeway pressure (45 lbs) is so high, I'm sure I'm wasting power turning that Melling NASCAR pump. I am interested in 0W-30 but have read too many Amsoil horror stories.

On the subject of horror stories, that's what other oil companies spread around about Syntec's base stock, until Castrol took them to court and won.
Syntec is the factory fill on my wife's 2004 BMW 325CI, I suspect they know what they're doing.

And dino oil guys, I use Castrol GTX High Mileage 20W-50 in my kids' 200,000
mile BMW 1980 and 1984 commuters, changing every 90 days with Purolator filters.

BlazerLT
03-02-2006, 11:29 PM
Castrol Syntec is a hydrocracked conventional oil so don't get too high on it being a superior oil.

Also, nothing wrong with Amsoil, what are these horror stories you are hearing?

Castrol didn't take anyone to court, they got taken to court and they won through a loophole in the wording of synthetic.

For the price of Syntec, you can get a REAL synthetic like Mobil1.

das2123
03-03-2006, 08:29 AM
Hydrocracked conventional oils perform just as well as pure synthetics from what I have seen. The main difference between the two is true synthetics have a higher viscosity index, which is better.

BlazerLT
03-03-2006, 03:38 PM
Hydrocracked conventional oils perform just as well as pure synthetics from what I have seen. The main difference between the two is true synthetics have a higher viscosity index, which is better.

Not in the long run they don't.

Plus, you are paying top dollar, what would you rather have for the same price, a real synthetic or an altered conventional oil which through a loophole in the wording law is able to call synthetic.

It is all about comsumer marketing tactics. Castrol used to be full true synthetic, but now that they found this loophole, they didn't tell anyone and switched over to the hydrocracked version to save money but yet oddly kept the price the same....HMMM... food for thought.

What would you rather have an honest synthetic, or Castrol synthetic sneak which is the same as the other synthetic garbage posing as the PAO alternative.

For the same price, get the real deal and don't be suckered in by ignorance and corporate greed.

das2123
03-03-2006, 04:34 PM
Not in the long run they don't.Based on what? I work in an oil analysis lab and see the data day after day. No big difference in wear metals, viscosity/thermal breakdown and/or degradation of the oil. Both are pretty consistent and similiar and this is after thousands of miles of use.

I hear what you are saying about the price, but just because it's not a true synthetic doesn't mean it doesn't perform like one.

BlazerLT
03-03-2006, 04:52 PM
The whole point of running synthetics is to have superior protection while undergoing long oil change intervals above and beyond the 6000-8000 miles mark.

On most hydrocracked conventioanl synthetics, you will see a TBN of around 8-9.5 range whereas with the PAO true synthetics you will see a TBN of 11-12.2 range.

TBN is the Total Base Number and is the amount of anti-wear additive added to the oil. The higher the number, the longer it can go before it drops to 1 which is when you change the oil.

Couple that with the fact that PAO based synthetics for the same money will flow better at startup and allow for flow at much colder temperatures and you have an oil that for the same price is just superior.

das2123
03-03-2006, 05:42 PM
On most hydrocracked conventioanl synthetics, you will see a TBN of around 8-9.5 range whereas with the PAO true synthetics you will see a TBN of 11-12.2 range.
TBN is the Total Base Number and is the amount of anti-wear additive added to the oil. The higher the number, the longer it can go before it drops to 1 which is when you change the oil.I know what TBN stands for, I run them all day long :wink: ...A TBN of 1 would mean bad things for your car. The TBN is mostly used for Diesel engine oils rather than regular engine oil. How would the average person know what their TBN rating is anyway? I'm not debating which is better or which is a better bang for the buck. I am stating that after looking at and reviewing tons and tons of data they test similiar. I have also seen engines that had over 100,000 miles on them run with both the "pure" synthetic and hydrocrakced synthetic and I'd bet you couldn't tell me which engine had which oil in there!

*On another note BlazerLT, it's nice to see someone else with a knowledge of oils on a car forum.

sub006
03-03-2006, 06:23 PM
The typical Amsoil horror story is "I changed oil in my Ford pickup, putting in Amsoil 0W-30. Immediately upon start-up I heard awful rattling, knocking sounds from the engine until it warmed up. This happened on the next couple of cold starts 'til my mechanic convinced me to drain it out and put Mobil 1 back in. The sounds went away." I notice them from time to time on various forums.

I would like to try Amsoil (have heard incredible fuel mileage increase claims) but cannot get testimonials from anyone online other than Amsoil executives or dealers.

Race shops that work on my Corvette and BMW's all endorse Redline, and I use their D4 ATF with excellent results, much better than Mobil 1 ATF. But these same guys kind of scratch their heads when I mention Amsoil and say they don't know anyone who uses it and don't know enough about it to recommend it.

BlazerLT
03-03-2006, 10:28 PM
I know what TBN stands for, I run them all day long :wink: ...A TBN of 1 would mean bad things for your car. The TBN is mostly used for Diesel engine oils rather than regular engine oil.

Just remember that I am not only writing a reply for you, but for anyone reading this thread which might like to see the information.

I am not questioning your knowledge at all, just laying my case and frame of mind out on the table.

On the TBN note, TBN of 1 doesn't mean there is anything wrong with an engine at all unless that TBN has gone from 12+ to 1 in 2000 miles which means the additive is being used to counteract something happening in the engine at an advanced rate.

TBN of 1 just means the oil is worn out and needs to be changed. And TBN is not only important for diesel engines, it is just as important on gasoline engines as well. Mind you I recognize that TBN might be a little more important seeing the fuel dilution that diesels introduce into the oil. TBN is the life of your oil, if you have 6000miles on your oil change and still have a TBN of 5, you still have lots of active additive left and realistically, there is still no need to change the oil. Just swap on another filter and keep on going.

TBN in my mind is one thing I always first turn to when looking over an oil analysis. I always want to see how my anti-wear, anti-foaming and overall base oil is performing and whether it is really taking a lot of the TBN out of the oil in an advanced rate.

How would the average person know what their TBN rating is anyway? I'm not debating which is better or which is a better bang for the buck. I am stating that after looking at and reviewing tons and tons of data they test similiar. I have also seen engines that had over 100,000 miles on them run with both the "pure" synthetic and hydrocrakced synthetic and I'd bet you couldn't tell me which engine had which oil in there!

This is the thing I am trying to put across, a lot of people don't know about this, but heck, they should learn seeing for the same price they are getting less potential longvity out of their oil for the dollar.

I have looked over several oil analysis results and although the wear numbers are good, the oil is worn out faster when compared to the superior PAO based base oils used in Mobil1, Redline, Amsoil and some other smaller focused companies.

*On another note BlazerLT, it's nice to see someone else with a knowledge of oils on a car forum.

Same goes for you, it is good to have a nice intelligent debate without any cheap shots and some good squabble going back and forth. We all learn and gain from this. :D

BlazerLT
03-03-2006, 10:32 PM
The typical Amsoil horror story is "I changed oil in my Ford pickup, putting in Amsoil 0W-30. Immediately upon start-up I heard awful rattling, knocking sounds from the engine until it warmed up. This happened on the next couple of cold starts 'til my mechanic convinced me to drain it out and put Mobil 1 back in. The sounds went away." I notice them from time to time on various forums.

I would like to try Amsoil (have heard incredible fuel mileage increase claims) but cannot get testimonials from anyone online other than Amsoil executives or dealers.

Race shops that work on my Corvette and BMW's all endorse Redline, and I use their D4 ATF with excellent results, much better than Mobil 1 ATF. But these same guys kind of scratch their heads when I mention Amsoil and say they don't know anyone who uses it and don't know enough about it to recommend it.

No offense, but there is no way that an oil change can all of a sudden cause the noises you are detailing. You might have had a defective oil filter or the oil had to be pumped up properly after being drained.

Amsoil oil although expensive is excellent superb oil that has been testing time and time again to be one of the best in the business and the thing is, the chemical composition is almost exactly the same as the Mobil1 so the difference in protection is negligible.

sub006
03-10-2006, 01:14 AM
Castrol diehard again.

I was in Auto Zone yesterday and noticed quarts of a Castrol Syntec 0W-30.
The fine print said it was made in Germany and met the latest Porsche Turbo
specs.

I've heard oilheads raving about other German oils online, anyone know anything about this stuff? It's about 40 cents more than USA Syntec.

BlazerLT
03-11-2006, 11:17 PM
No, the 05 batch is not the same as the 04 and older batches. It is not the same oil and for the money, I would use Mobil1.

At least Mobil1 is a true synthetic.

sub006
03-11-2006, 11:58 PM
No, the 05 batch is not the same as the 04 and older batches. It is not the same oil and for the money, I would use Mobil1.

At least Mobil1 is a true synthetic.

Was this a response to my inquiry about German Castrol Syntec 0W-30? If it is different than USA Castrol Syntec, are you saying it is better or worse?

I am interested in the TBN factor as it reflects life of additives. I change oil and filter at 7000 mile intervals. Can we get new and used (say zero, 5,000 and 10,000 miles) ballpark TBN ratings for Mobil 1, Amsoil and the two Syntecs? Maybe our lab tech poster can help with this.

Going a year (30,000 miles) changing only the oil filter a couple of times doesn't excite me unless it can be shown I'm throwing away oil way too soon. Why not put in totally fresh oil every 90 days? I do it myself and it's not that expensive, less than $40 a pop including K & N filter.

On a happier note for Blazer and company, I just got the latest issue of "Roundel", the BMW Car Club of America magazine. In the tech discussion section a member asked about Amsoil. The moderator said he and his service colleagues have put it in at the insistence of some customers with no negative results. They accept it as good oil but are sticking with Red Line if the choice is up to the shops.

BMW still recommends Syntec for all new models with a 15,000 mile drain cycle. It is also factory fill (wonder if they use the German stuff for this?) Could be they agreed to do this as part of Castol's sponsorship of the BMW Formula 1 team.

BlazerLT
03-12-2006, 12:38 AM
Was this a response to my inquiry about German Castrol Syntec 0W-30? If it is different than USA Castrol Syntec, are you saying it is better or worse?

Yes, it was different but it is nothing more than a standard Grp 3 hydrocrack anymore. Not worth the money when you have better TRUE synthetics on the market for the same price.

I am interested in the TBN factor as it reflects life of additives. I change oil and filter at 7000 mile intervals. Can we get new and used (say zero, 5,000 and 10,000 miles) ballpark TBN ratings for Mobil 1, Amsoil and the two Syntecs? Maybe our lab tech poster can help with this.

Mobil1 , Amsoil : TBN 12-12.2
Castrol Syntec: 9-10

You can't get relative TBN's for mileage ranges seeing it depends on so many factors that are different for every vehicle.

Going a year (30,000 miles) changing only the oil filter a couple of times doesn't excite me unless it can be shown I'm throwing away oil way too soon. Why not put in totally fresh oil every 90 days? I do it myself and it's not that expensive, less than $40 a pop including K & N filter.

Changing synthetic oil every 3 months is a down right waste of money, oil and resources. The 3 month myth is something that should have died in the 60s where it was put in place.

You will get no better oil performance changing the oil every 3 months, it is not a better piece of mind, it is just people still believing old myths that are no longer true, but are also used by quick change places to make more money.

Pray on the ignorant.

On a happier note for Blazer and company, I just got the latest issue of "Roundel", the BMW Car Club of America magazine. In the tech discussion section a member asked about Amsoil. The moderator said he and his service colleagues have put it in at the insistence of some customers with no negative results. They accept it as good oil but are sticking with Red Line if the choice is up to the shops.

Yes, it is good oil. In europe, they have the same oil as us yet they drive over 15,000 - 20,000 kms per oil change. Yet we are still stuck with the misinformation of changing it out prematurely.

They get just as much engine life than we do.

BMW still recommends Syntec for all new models with a 15,000 mile drain cycle. It is also factory fill (wonder if they use the German stuff for this?) Could be they agreed to do this as part of Castol's sponsorship of the BMW Formula 1 team.

Yip, you bet your ass it does. It is the factory fill and they are bed mates, for sure they would recommend each other.

sub006
03-17-2006, 12:00 AM
Blazer LT,

If Castrol Syntec is NOT synthetic oil, then why do you say I shouldn't change it at 7500 miles? That's how far I drive in 90 days, and that is not much less than the 15,000 kms (which is 9500 miles) you mention. If I only covered 2500 miles in 90 days I would hold off on the drain.

BlazerLT
03-17-2006, 01:25 AM
Blazer LT,

If Castrol Syntec is NOT synthetic oil, then why do you say I shouldn't change it at 7500 miles? That's how far I drive in 90 days, and that is not much less than the 15,000 kms (which is 9500 miles) you mention. If I only covered 2500 miles in 90 days I would hold off on the drain.

Where did I say to not change it at 7500miles?

ozzman87
03-17-2006, 01:18 PM
if you are running a full sythetic then how often should you change your oil. i've always just went with the 5000 km rule and i agree that it kind of defeats the purpose of using synthetic. if the life is a lot longer then maybe it will be a good idea to run synthetic other than when the temperature drops below 20 C

das2123
03-17-2006, 01:41 PM
if you are running a full sythetic then how often should you change your oil.I know a guy who has been running Mobil 1 oil since the first oil change on his neon and he doesn't change his oil. He changes the filter every 5000 miles or so and just tops off with more Mobil 1 oil. He has put over 150,000 miles on his neon this way and has no major engine damage. I thought he was crazy, but it works from him. He also autocrosses his neon as well as taking to it the dragstrip from time to time.

BlazerLT
03-17-2006, 11:12 PM
if you are running a full sythetic then how often should you change your oil. i've always just went with the 5000 km rule and i agree that it kind of defeats the purpose of using synthetic. if the life is a lot longer then maybe it will be a good idea to run synthetic other than when the temperature drops below 20 C

You can easily go 10,000miles on synthetic with a filter change at 5000 miles.

If chaged properly, synthetic oil is actually a cheaper oil change.

BlazerLT
03-17-2006, 11:25 PM
I know a guy who has been running Mobil 1 oil since the first oil change on his neon and he doesn't change his oil. He changes the filter every 5000 miles or so and just tops off with more Mobil 1 oil. He has put over 150,000 miles on his neon this way and has no major engine damage. I thought he was crazy, but it works from him. He also autocrosses his neon as well as taking to it the dragstrip from time to time.

That would not be in the best interest of anyone using that oil seeing the addtives will not be sufficiently replenished by the 3/4 of a quart the oil filter displaces.

I highly doubt that he has done this throughout the life of the car though.

das2123
03-18-2006, 08:32 AM
I highly doubt that he has done this throughout the life of the car though.Believe me he has!

BlazerLT
03-18-2006, 08:57 PM
I wouldn't deem it as being something to be proud of though.

texwill
03-23-2006, 08:55 PM
Ok, whew lots of knowledge and I am about to ask another question, hopefully I am not starting another debate, well I guess it would be OK cause I just learned alot, ANYWAYS, I am running Mobil1 in my 89 Honda it has about 240,000 runs great, gets great gas milage, ran everyday on the Autobahn, but the other day I was a little low and put in some 15W Castrol something from a friend, I just read it was fully synthetic, because I forgot mine at the house and the German station did not carry Mobil1. Now my car smokes, just a little, but my friend noticed it, and I confirmed it. Could I have messed something up? I am going to change the oil on Saturday but I would like to know if an Engine is in my forecast. One last thing, what do the oil weights mean (ex:10W 30, 5W 30, etc.) and what conditions should they be used, it is very confusing thanks.

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 01:43 AM
What color is the smoke?

das2123
03-24-2006, 08:56 AM
One last thing, what do the oil weights mean (ex:10W 30, 5W 30, etc.) and what conditions should they be used, it is very confusing thanks.The weight is the viscosity (the thickness or resistance to flow of a liquid) rating of the oil. The W in 5W30 stands for winter, not weight which everyone seems to think. Multi-viscous oils have the capability to perform like a thin and thick oil. A 5W30 oil will perform like a 5 oil in the cold, say in the morning, and a 30 oil when the engine warms up. The thinner 5 oil will help get the engine cranked up in the cold.

I think in your Honda a 5W30 oil is good for the winter, maybe going to a 10W30 during the summer.

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 01:38 PM
The weight is the viscosity (the thickness or resistance to flow of a liquid) rating of the oil. The W in 5W30 stands for winter, not weight which everyone seems to think. Multi-viscous oils have the capability to perform like a thin and thick oil. A 5W30 oil will perform like a 5 oil in the cold, say in the morning, and a 30 oil when the engine warms up. The thinner 5 oil will help get the engine cranked up in the cold.

I am sorry, but that is wrong, there is no way an oil is thinner when it is cold than when it is hot.

The 5 is a rating, not a weight. It is a relative comparitive coefficient when comparing oil that is the same brand. For instance, a 5w30 from Chevron can be thicker than a 5w30 from Castrol. You can only compare within brand and product lines.

A 5 will be thinner at a certain cold temperature than a 10. A 0 oil is thinner than the 5 at that temperature as well.

I think in your Honda a 5W30 oil is good for the winter, maybe going to a 10W30 during the summer.

5w30 is good for all year around seeing they both are 30 weights at operating temperature. A 5w30 will flow faster as startup as well, not much, but it will help.

das2123
03-24-2006, 02:00 PM
I am sorry, but that is wrong, there is no way an oil is thinner when it is cold than when it is hot.With most oil yes that would be true. But with multi-vis oils, its not. Say my car, which has 10w30 oil in it, has been sitting outside all night in 30 degree weather...when I go to start my car up in the morning the oil will act like an SAE 10 , which has a viscosity rating of 4 and as the engine warms up the oil will act like the SAE 30 oil, which has a viscosity rating of about 12! The oil will get thicker as the car warms up!

In very cold climates, a thinner oil may be used in the wintertime and in very hot areas, a thicker oil may be used in summer. Oil chemistry has advanced from just refining oils to specific viscosities, to adding chemical agents, which control viscosity over a range of temperatures. Now motor oils have viscosity ratings such as 10w- 30w. This means that the oil acts like a thin oil at cold temperatures but at higher temperature gives the protection of a 30-wt. oil.

neon_rt
03-24-2006, 02:20 PM
There are guidlines for the viscosity rating set by the SAE.
There is some tolerance for the rating so there will be some differences in one brand of 5-30 and another 5-30. The standards don't address all aspects of the oil, this is where you could find significant differences between brands.

In the case of 5-30 the oil would have the same thickness of straight 5 oil when it is cold and then it would not get thinner than a straight 30 when it is hot. So 5-30 gives you the flow of 5 and the thickness of 30 to better protect your engine. Most synthetic oils are designed around this principle, although most dino-oil uses a thin base (such as 5) and then adds polymers (plastic) into the oil. The plastic gets thicker as it heats up. These polymers tend to oxidize (burn) when the oil gets hot, so the oil gets thinner and thinner as the polymers burn out. That is part of the reason why you can go a lot longer between oil changes with synthetic, the additives that get "used" up in dino-oil are not present to begin with in the synthetic.

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 03:09 PM
With most oil yes that would be true. But with multi-vis oils, its not. Say my car, which has 10w30 oil in it, has been sitting outside all night in 30 degree weather...when I go to start my car up in the morning the oil will act like an SAE 10 , which has a viscosity rating of 4 and as the engine warms up the oil will act like the SAE 30 oil, which has a viscosity rating of about 12! The oil will get thicker as the car warms up!

No but, the lower the number, the thinner the oil, seriously, you can't say that an oil is thinner when cold.

Viscisity rating means nothing, you go by the kinematic viscosity.

This is for any oil.

The 10 in 10w30 does not stand for the weight, AT ALL!

This is from Mobil1's website:

cSt @ 40º C 64.8
cSt @ 100º C 11.3

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp

Oil is thicker when colder.

It is a coefficient, nothing more, nothing less. NOT A WEIGHT!

Anyone saying an oil is thinner when cold has GOT to be joking.

Put your 5w30 in the freezer for two hours and pour it onto a piece of paper and then do the same with oil that is 100c or 210f which is operating temperature.

neon_rt
03-24-2006, 04:49 PM
The oil does not get thicker as it warms up.
It in the case of 10-30 it gets thinner but it thins as if it were 30 instead of 10.

ozzman87
03-24-2006, 05:05 PM
5w30 is the weight of your oil. if you take a straight 5 oil and put it in the freezer along with some 5w30 they will be the same weight. if you took a straight 30 and put it in a stove and brought it to operating temperature with some 5w30 they would also be the same weight.

neon_rt
03-24-2006, 05:34 PM
Substitute "viscosity" for "weight" and you got it.
We are now clear as Mobile1 fresh from the bottle. :)

das2123
03-24-2006, 06:08 PM
cSt @ 40 C 64.8
cSt @ 100 C 11.3
Oil is thicker when colder. So what is the point of buying a 5W30 oil if it's thicker first thing in the morning? Why not just buy a straight 30 weight oil?

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 06:27 PM
The oil does not get thicker as it warms up.
It in the case of 10-30 it gets thinner but it thins as if it were 30 instead of 10.

Actually it thins out to a 30 weight.

All oils thin out when warmer and they thin out only to a 30 weight when up to 210f which is everyone's engine operating temperature.

The 10 has NOTHING to do with weight.

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 06:34 PM
5w30 is the weight of your oil. if you take a straight 5 oil and put it in the freezer along with some 5w30 they will be the same weight. if you took a straight 30 and put it in a stove and brought it to operating temperature with some 5w30 they would also be the same weight.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong.

The 5 in 5w30 has nothing to do with weight bacause if that was the case you are saying then it is thinner when cold which completely opposite of what happens.

Straight 30 weight thickens up incredibly fast as you drop the temperatures seeing it doesn't have any viscosity modifiers for colder temperatures.

15w30
10w30
5w30
0w30

The lower the number, the colder the oil can handle without crossing it pour point where it starts to gel.

That is all the difference it is. At say -15f the higher the number, the higher the viscosity (thicker) it will be at that temperature range.

AGAIN, THE 5 IN 5W30 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WEIGHT. ANYONE SAYING IT DOES NEEDS TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND UNDERSTAND HOW KINEMATIC VISCOSITIES WORK.

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 06:38 PM
So what is the point of buying a 5W30 oil if it's thicker first thing in the morning? Why not just buy a straight 30 weight oil?

All oils are thicker when cold.

The only difference between 10w30 and 5w30 is that the 5w30 is thinner when cold, that is all. Nothing more and nothing less.

A straight 30 weight has very little viscosity modifiers to handle colder temperatures and has a lot higher pour point than a multigrade oil.

A 30 weight oil is NOT a 30 weight when it is cold, it is only a 30 weight when up to 210f.

At -10f a 30 weight will be one heck of a lot thicker than even a 10w30.

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 06:39 PM
http://x10.putfile.com/3/8217410522.gif (http://www.putfile.com)

You will see what I am saying here now.

When cold a 5w30 is not a 5 weight.

Take the M1 5w30, You see at 100c which is 210f it is at 10.0cst which is almost a 20weight but is within the 9.9-12.1 cst range for a 30 weight oil.

You can see that the M1 5w30 and the M1 10w30 and even the M1 0w30 are 10.0cst at operating temperature, but look at the values when it is -20c out, the 10w30 is noticeably thicker and even llok at how much thinner the 0w30 is but when the engine is all warm and toasty, they are all being protected with the same lubrication and thickness of 10.0.

Thinner oil at startup is the best for cold start protection seeing 80% of engine wear is within 10-15 seconds of starting an engine.

And if anyone thinks a 10 weight oil has a cst of over 3000 they need to give there head a shake and shrug off common misconceptions.

das2123
03-24-2006, 07:28 PM
Thinner oil at startup is the best for cold start protection seeing 80% of engine wear is within 10-15 seconds of starting an engine.Yes, but you are saying that its thicker when cold, so how does that benefit startup?

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 07:31 PM
Yes, but you are saying that its thicker when cold, so how does that benefit startup?

I am saying thinner when compared to other oils. 0w30 is thinner when colder when compared to 5w30 which itself is thinner when cold than 10w30.

All oil is thicker when cold and if you can find a lubricational medium that doesn't do that I am all ears.

das2123
03-24-2006, 08:01 PM
I am saying thinner when compared to other oils. 0w30 is thinner when colder when compared to 5w30 which itself is thinner when cold than 10w30.

All oil is thicker when cold and if you can find a lubricational medium that doesn't do that I am all ears.Would you agree that the "W" stands for winter?

BlazerLT
03-24-2006, 08:44 PM
Yes, I believe that is what it means.

sheetmagnet
03-26-2006, 03:53 AM
I just checked this thread that I started months ago... wow you gys have been busy. Great information though! Too bad not every thread has as much tech information posted to it like this one...

A common "rule of thumb" that I think many of us learned from Dad when we were kids, was that 5w30 was about the standard to fill the crankcase with. Obviously we have all learned that depending on the engine, that can vary...

But reviewing the data in the "flow" chart above, wouldn't it be agreeable by everyone that a good all-around oil for us to use would be 0w30, period? Compareable to other oils, it is thinner at freezing temperatures, and at running temp (i.e., 100C), it is right in line with the other multi-grades. So if 0w30 offers more potential protection on a cold start but performs the same at 100C, shouldn't this grade (at least comparing Mobil1) be the all-out weapon of choice for anyone who's motor calls for a 30-wieght multigrade, period?

Unless you're living in Antarctica or Death Valley, I don't see why you wouldn't automatically grab the 0w30 the first time around...

BlazerLT
03-26-2006, 12:11 PM
I just checked this thread that I started months ago... wow you gys have been busy. Great information though! Too bad not every thread has as much tech information posted to it like this one...

A common "rule of thumb" that I think many of us learned from Dad when we were kids, was that 5w30 was about the standard to fill the crankcase with. Obviously we have all learned that depending on the engine, that can vary...

But reviewing the data in the "flow" chart above, wouldn't it be agreeable by everyone that a good all-around oil for us to use would be 0w30, period? Compareable to other oils, it is thinner at freezing temperatures, and at running temp (i.e., 100C), it is right in line with the other multi-grades. So if 0w30 offers more potential protection on a cold start but performs the same at 100C, shouldn't this grade (at least comparing Mobil1) be the all-out weapon of choice for anyone who's motor calls for a 30-wieght multigrade, period?

Unless you're living in Antarctica or Death Valley, I don't see why you wouldn't automatically grab the 0w30 the first time around...

You know what, you are EXACTLY right.

That is what I use.

I respect your thought process, 0w30 is the superior oil for all year round.

das2123
03-26-2006, 12:34 PM
You know what, you are EXACTLY right.

That is what I use.

I respect your thought process, 0w30 is the superior oil for all year round.Would that depend on location though? I can't imagine needing a 0W30 oil down here in Texas!

sheetmagnet
03-26-2006, 09:09 PM
That's the point though... whether in Texas or Michigan, by looking at the chart, the 0W-30 offers better protection on a cold start than the 5w-30 and higher multi-grades. And at 100C/212F, it looks to me like it offers almost identical characteristics as all of the other 30-wieght multigrades. So if it protects and flows the same at operating temperature, but offers better protection at startup, and performs at least as well as all the others in every other category, why shouldn't everyone used to 5w30 and 10w30 consider this as a more worthy replacement?

And something interesting on the chart above: Do you notice that the 0w30 rating is lower at freezing temperatures compared to the other 5w30's and 10w30's? (as it should be). BUT, look at temperatures in the overheat range... like 150C... the 0w30 shows a rating of 4.5, compared to 4.3, and 4.2 with the 5w and 10w's... like I said, better protection on a cold start, and better durability under extreme heat... looks like a simple choice to me!

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