What's the BEST oil and filter?


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BlazerLT
03-26-2006, 11:51 PM
Takes a shit-kickin and keeps on tickin.....

sheetmagnet
03-28-2006, 09:24 PM
Okay I hate to keep this thread going much longer, but since this post was started, there was an addition to the Mobil1 group that has been gaining some popularity, and that is Mobil1 Extended Performance (15,000 mile). Mobil1 says that the only difference between this and regular Mobil1 synthetic is that the new 15k-mile stuff has 50% more "SuperSyn" in it, although they don't go into too many details on what specifically "SuperSyn" really is (like a polymer, detergent, maple syrup, etc). Also noticed they only offer three multi-grade viscosities for it. Anyone know any other differences or used this stuff against regular Mobil1?

Twas' wondering about the "SuperSyn" mystery funk because they say they only gaurantee it for 15k if you drive like a pansy. On the other hand, if you read their details for regular Mobil1 synthetic they pretty much tell you to beat the life out of it and it'll hold up great, and oh btw you can use it for normal driving too... if 50% SuperSyn is so much better, why act cautious about it compared to what's supposed to be a lesser oil (Mobil1 synthetic original)?

BlazerLT
03-29-2006, 02:20 AM
It is basically the same oil with a little more calcium, zinc and other additives.

Nothing hugely different.

Hell, standard Mobil1 can go for 15k highway miles.

sub006
03-29-2006, 04:17 PM
Castrol Syntec fans,

Just noticed a new variant of this oil at Auto Zone, a 0W-30 made in Germany to meet German car manufacturers' new standards. It was over $6 a quart but the next time I was in they were blowing it out at $4.97.

Most of my Bimmers are old enough to require 20W-50, but this stuff might be the ticket for my Suburban 383 with a Melling HD oil pump that exceeds 50lb when cold.

sheetmagnet
04-15-2006, 04:04 AM
Just changed my oil. Last time I changed it, I put Mobil1 synthetic 5W-30 in it, and used a Mobil1 filter too. That was last September, about 8000 miles ago...

Drained it out, and although it was brownish in color and definitely smelled used, it wasn't too dark, and was still thicker than water... it basically looked "well" considering it had 8000 miles of beating on it, including many days below freezing and a few at 0 degrees or worse.

This time, I replaced it with Mobil1 synthetic 5W-30 just the same, but I am using a K&N filter now (Mobil1 and K&N filter are both $11 each here, so I thought I'd give it a try). I guess I'll let you guys know how it holds up to summer abuse after 8000 more miles!

BlazerLT
04-16-2006, 11:50 PM
good for you, you took advantage of the oil's life.

sheetmagnet
04-17-2006, 02:40 AM
good for you, you took advantage of the oil's life.

True, but that's the first time I ever pushed ANY oil that far (more my fault than the oil or the car)... I grew up in the country, listening to Dad as a kid and helping him change oil every < 2000 miles with $1-a-quart 10W-30 Valvoline or Pennzoil (because Arnold Palmer said so he he) and the cheapest Fram filter he could find...

I'm sure I'm not the only guy here that got older, with that similar "mental block" on oil changing. Years ago, our parents thought that 2k and conventional oil was the standard. Synthetics were labeled as "outrageous" or a "gimmick." If I ever would have borrowed my Dad's car years ago, and somehow put 3k+ miles on it without an oil change, he probably would have drove the car off a cliff with me in the trunk lol.

BlazerLT
04-17-2006, 11:55 PM
3000 miles on standard oil is now a myth as well.

Regular oil is so refined it can go to 8000 as well with no problems.

sheetmagnet
04-18-2006, 12:47 AM
3000 miles on standard oil is now a myth as well... Regular oil is so refined it can go to 8000 as well with no problems.

Well, maybe... but you may be hard-pressed to find many people here that would be willing to push conventional oil that far in their cars; especially on a newer engine. I know Mobil1 makes a conventional that claims this, but I personally would have a hard time trusting it... I'd be checking the dipstick every time before my car left the driveway after 3k or 4k miles... which brings us to an updated poll...

das2123
04-18-2006, 08:28 AM
Well, maybe... but you may be hard-pressed to find many people here that would be willing to push conventional oil that far in their cars; especially on a newer engine. I know Mobil1 makes a conventional that claims this, but I personally would have a hard time trusting it... I'd be checking the dipstick every time before my car left the driveway after 3k or 4k miles... which brings us to an updated poll...I have pushed my conventional oil to 6000-8000 miles and did the oil analysis afterwards and it still looked good. Once it was Quaker State and the other time was good ol' Pennzoil.

neon_rt
04-18-2006, 11:32 AM
The recommended change interval on my Jeep is 7500 miles with conventional oil. I usually go 4000 miles (Mobil 1), change the filter, top it off and then change the oil and filter at the 8000 mile mark. Because of bad weather and not having any place to dispose of 6 quarts of oil, I have done the filter only change every 4K for 16K miles a couple of times. The oil did not appear or smell any different than an 8K change. Some people only change the filter, top off every 5K or so and do a change at about 20K the whole time they own a vehicle.

ryandotcom
04-18-2006, 10:49 PM
FYI, if you are going to be cheap on filters, do not use FRAM. They use a paper element and can degrade and pieces can come out filter and clog oil intake and cause low oil preasure. After i found that out, i switched to AC Delco. No probs.

BlazerLT
04-18-2006, 11:30 PM
Well, maybe... but you may be hard-pressed to find many people here that would be willing to push conventional oil that far in their cars; especially on a newer engine. I know Mobil1 makes a conventional that claims this, but I personally would have a hard time trusting it... I'd be checking the dipstick every time before my car left the driveway after 3k or 4k miles... which brings us to an updated poll...

It is all about knowledge.

Peopl without the knowledge and the research will be worried about it seeing they just don't know.

A little research and you will see that it will never harm a tuned up engine that is working properly.

Hell, my friend's Civic states right in the engine compartment that it can go 7000 miles on conventional and that was 14 years ago.

Engines today are even more cleaner and can easily go longer.

BlazerLT
04-18-2006, 11:31 PM
FYI, if you are going to be cheap on filters, do not use FRAM. They use a paper element and can degrade and pieces can come out filter and clog oil intake and cause low oil preasure. After i found that out, i switched to AC Delco. No probs.

Good point, Fram are absolute shit.

sheetmagnet
04-19-2006, 06:26 AM
Engines today are even more cleaner and can easily go longer.

This is very true... between the technology of better engines, better oil, and more accessibility to better filters, there is no reason why oil can't be easily pushed multiple times beyond what our elders remember of their cars and PM's back in the 50's and 60's...

FYI, if you are going to be cheap on filters, do not use FRAM.

I never heard anything good about Fram except from a few ol'-timers... and no offense to them, they just assumed that it was normal for their oil to look like black water after 2500 miles... not realizing that the filter was plugged and baked, and the oil was just roasting everywhere else in their motor. I bought a Fram filter for my F-150 one time... I was spinning it FOREVER trying to get it to go on, when I finally pulled it back down and looked at it closer, and realized that it had NO THREADS in it (wtf, right?). As a matter of fact, I only tried Fram a few times ever, and had similar problems with REALLY dirty-ass oil... I would never use a Fram again unless they offered a filter such as Mobil1, ACDelco, or K&N... which they probably never will. Come to think of it, I'm not impressed with anything that Fram makes at all. Hell, a terrorist could probably be doing a filter change on his car right now, and planning to blow it up in an hour, and even HE probably wouldn't even use a Fram!

neon_rt
04-19-2006, 12:41 PM
I usually use MotorCraft (Ford) filters. I use the one designated for the Ford V8, it is about twice the size of the filter designated for the Mopar 6 and 8 cyl. Sorry off topic, these filters alternatives don't work for the Neon. They apply to the 2.4l , most V6's and V8's.
The Ford filter is made by purolator and features synthetic medium.
I have used the AC/Delco filters before, again I use the one designated for the Ford V8. There are a couple of different filters you can use as an alternative to the one designated for Mopar use. If you don't have enough room to use the Ford V8 filter, you can try the Ford V6 filter which is also bigger than the Mopar one. Don't try to substitute a filter designated for GM use, the GM filters don't contain an anti-drainback valve.

tothedumpster
04-28-2006, 02:50 AM
i know the mobil 1 filter lasts almost 10,000 miles but how long does the K and N last? it doesn't say on the box for it.

BlazerLT
04-28-2006, 02:51 AM
Not that long.

The K&N is a good filter, but it is overpriced.

Wix or NapaGold would be just as good at 1/2 to 1/3 the price.

FemaleRacer
05-19-2006, 06:24 AM
I use Pennzoil in my Neon and change it every 2500-3000 miles. My engine has ran great on it.

sheetmagnet2
05-19-2006, 03:44 PM
I use Pennzoil in my Neon and change it every 2500-3000 miles. My engine has ran great on it.

Well changed regularly and driven well, a motor should last pretty long on Pennzoil. As for me, I drive like a bat out of hell half the time, :iceslolan so I need all the extra help I can get (of course, not saying that you don't drive like that either).

BlazerLT
05-21-2006, 03:29 PM
Today you can go much more than 3000miles on conventioanl.

Everyone is brainwashed with the old 60s and lube shops telling them how to change it.

In Europe they go to 15,000miles on one oil change. Only North America has the 3000mile bullshit. Check out your owner's manual, it will say the same thing I am saying.

f1fans02
07-26-2006, 06:17 AM
TBN is the Total Base Number and is the amount of anti-wear additive added to the oil. The higher the number, the longer it can go before it drops to 1 which is when you change the oil.


How to know the TBN number of the oils in my engine ?

Kimi

das2123
07-26-2006, 09:45 AM
How to know the TBN number of the oils in my engine ?
KimiSome oil companies put it on the bottle, although it's more prominent in deisel engine oils. The only way to check what's currently in your car, would be to send it to a lab, like mine :grinyes: , that can analyze it.

f1fans02
07-26-2006, 10:07 AM
Some oil companies put it on the bottle, although it's more prominent in deisel engine oils. The only way to check what's currently in your car, would be to send it to a lab, like mine :grinyes: , that can analyze it.

but how to know the current TBN status if the oils are still in my engine ? it's less likely to send the used oils to lab each time when I want to know the current TBN after miles of usage.

das2123
07-26-2006, 10:17 AM
but how to know the current TBN status if the oils are still in my engine ? it's less likely to send the used oils to lab each time when I want to know the current TBN after miles of usage.It has to be measured...so how else would you do it? It has to be titrated. If you don't want to send it to a lab buy one of these...
http://www.kittiwake.com/Default.aspx/ProductSection/75/ProductSubSection/86/ProductSubSubSection/181/Product/414

BlazerLT
07-26-2006, 12:38 PM
but how to know the current TBN status if the oils are still in my engine ? it's less likely to send the used oils to lab each time when I want to know the current TBN after miles of usage.


You can take a sample with a sample extractor out the oil dipstick tube.

sub006
07-26-2006, 11:43 PM
For info about TBNs and other esoteric oil topics, visit bobistheoilguy.com!

sub006
07-26-2006, 11:47 PM
Blazer LT,

I ran my '90 Suburban 90 days or 4500 miles on conventional oil. With Syntec I'm going more like 7000 miles.

My '04 BMW dashboard computer asks for an oil change at about 15,000-mile intervals, but this is synthetic oil ONLY! I think you'd be asking for trouble stretching conventional oil this long.

'Course if you trade every couple of years or only want to get to the end of the warranty, the car would probably make it in the SHORT run!

sub006
07-26-2006, 11:48 PM
Blazer LT,

I ran my '90 Suburban 90 days or 4500 miles on conventional oil. With Syntec I'm going more like 7000 miles.

My '04 BMW dashboard computer asks for an oil change at about 15,000-mile intervals, but this is synthetic oil ONLY! I think you'd be asking for trouble stretching conventional oil this long.

'Course if you trade every couple of years or only want to get to the end of the warranty, the car would probably make it in the SHORT run!

BlazerLT
07-27-2006, 09:51 PM
Blazer LT,

I ran my '90 Suburban 90 days or 4500 miles on conventional oil. With Syntec I'm going more like 7000 miles.

My '04 BMW dashboard computer asks for an oil change at about 15,000-mile intervals, but this is synthetic oil ONLY! I think you'd be asking for trouble stretching conventional oil this long.

'Course if you trade every couple of years or only want to get to the end of the warranty, the car would probably make it in the SHORT run!

If you are going to run Syntec, run the 0w30 that is made in germany, it is the only TRUE synthetic. Check the back of the bottle and look for "Made in Germany".

The rest of the grades are Group 3 conventional which is hydrocracked.

The only true synthetics are the 0w30 syntec I said above and the following:

Redline
Mobil 1
Amsoil
Pennzoil Platinum

The rest are NOT real synthetics yet they will charge you like they are.

das2123
07-27-2006, 11:35 PM
The rest are NOT real synthetics yet they will charge you like they are.Although legally they can call themselves "true" synthetics, they aren't!

f1fans02
07-28-2006, 01:08 AM
which grade of oils to choose if my engine is with 140000 kms of usage ? Here in Taiwan, they recommend to use thicker oil such as 5w50 to protect engine.

BlazerLT
07-28-2006, 02:43 AM
5w40 will be completely sufficient.

BlazerLT
07-28-2006, 02:44 AM
Although legally they can call themselves "true" synthetics, they aren't!

Lots of them call themselve "FULL" synthetic although they are just altered conventional oils.

sub006
07-28-2006, 01:28 PM
Here we go again with the "100% true synthetic" vs. "hydrocracked part-synthetic" debate.

This is like the "natural" vs. "synthetic" vitamin argument. For decades I have run comparison tests with real athletes. Conclusion: the human body can't tell the difference.

I have purchased the German Syntec for $1.50 per quart more than the USA Syntec. In real world use, I have noted no difference. The range of weights and easier availability have pushed me toward the USA product.

BMW specifies USA Syntec for American market passenger car and SUV use. Their PTG racers use USA Syntec. I don't know about the Formula 1 team, but if the German product offered useful advantages, BMW would certainly use it in their biggest market in the world.

das2123
07-28-2006, 01:34 PM
Here we go again with the "100% true synthetic" vs. "hydrocracked part-synthetic" debate.Biggest difference is Viscosity Index. True synthetics, which are Group IV oils, are required to have a VI of >120, while Group III oils, hydrocracked oils, are <120. So a 100% synthetic oil's viscosity will hold up against conditions better than a "fake" synthetic.

BlazerLT
07-28-2006, 01:35 PM
If you think true PAO synthetic is the same as hydrocracked conventional, you are wrong.

The PAO bas fluid is so much better than the grp 3 crap that they pawn off as synthetic to the unknowning consumer.

Also, german castrol is a synthetic ester base.

sub006
07-28-2006, 06:19 PM
I did not mean to suggest that Group 3 and Group 4 oils are identical in composition or characteristics. Either one is "too good" for the average motorist to reap the value of their benefits.

My fleet of BMW cars and Chevy trucks get an average of 250,000 miles useful engine life without internal engine work. Using USA Syntec (Group 3) this is extended to 500,000 miles. Assuming I could get German Syntec in the correct viscosities, how much more might I expect?

I keep my vehicles a long time. The average motorist does not come close to the years and miles I put on my fleet.

I was driving one of my Chevy Suburbans on business in Las Vegas a couple of years ago. The temperature was 106 degrees. My a/c compressor froze and threw the serpentine belt. Having a couple of important meetings to make over the next couple of hours, I drove slowly with the temp gauge pegged for a few miles, taking care of the afternoon's business before summoning a flatbed at MY convenience to service the a/c. Without any engine work, this vehicle covered another two years and 60,000 miles of service.

Based on experiences like this, I'd say Group 3 Syntec is more than good enough for any non-racing application.

BlazerLT
07-28-2006, 07:13 PM
This thread is not about you, it is about the consumers getting ripped off and paying premium synthetic prices for a fake synthetic.

It is only labelled a synthetic because of a wording loophole, other than that it is just a premium normal motor oil.

sub006
07-29-2006, 10:11 PM
Besides Castrol Syntec, what other major retail brands are "fake" synthetic?

I know GM recommends Mobil 1 for Corvettes. Which car manufacturers do not list Group 3 oils as recommended?

Are there any manufacturer Service Bulletins warning against use of Group 3 synthetics?

I doubt it, since all the Group 3 and Group 4 oils probably meet the same SAE "S_" classification minimum spec.

BlazerLT
07-30-2006, 12:43 AM
Besides Castrol Syntec, what other major retail brands are "fake" synthetic?

I know GM recommends Mobil 1 for Corvettes. Which car manufacturers do not list Group 3 oils as recommended?

Are there any manufacturer Service Bulletins warning against use of Group 3 synthetics?

I doubt it, since all the Group 3 and Group 4 oils probably meet the same SAE "S_" classification minimum spec.

Better to show you real TRUE synthetics than type out all the other fake ones:

True Synthetics are:

Redline
Schaeffer
Pennzoil Platinum
Castrol Syntec 0w30 (The one made in Germany ONLY)
Exxon XD3 0w30 Synthetic (Esso in Canada) <---This is the one I use.
Mobil1
Amsoil

All the rest are just highly purified hydrocracked conventional oil and do not have the higher quality PAO basestock as used with most of these. The syntec one above is synthetic ester based as I think is the Pennzoil Platinum.

Pay the premium price for the real deal, not a rip-off purified conventional oil.

http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/newsletter_1000.htm

Most of the fake synthetics today used to be true synthetics until a court ruling. Then Castrol saw that it could still call its product synthetic while saving money and using only a Group 3 inferior basestock.

Electricblue.neon
09-19-2006, 03:49 PM
Consumer reports rated all top brand oils and Penzoil and Castrol outperformed all others.They put the oil into a machine and beat the living crap out of the oil.These two faired really well.

BlazerLT
09-19-2006, 04:16 PM
Consumer reports rated all top brand oils and Penzoil and Castrol outperformed all others.They put the oil into a machine and beat the living crap out of the oil.These two faired really well.

Link?

das2123
09-19-2006, 04:22 PM
Link?Yes please!

yale329
09-21-2006, 08:35 AM
I personally use mobil synthetic. Our climate in Winnipeg varies from six months of plus 30 cesius, to about 4 months of minus 40. You still must change it per owners manual in extreme conditions. I notice the difference more in the fridgid season for my vehicles turn over like it were summer. Just got rid of my old and sweet 1990 Dodge Caravan 3.3, showing it's age but still running at 450,000 klms.
I have always used a Fram, but recently bought a Fram synthetic one for $14.oo Canadian. Do't know how much better it is?
Just a Dad, Wayne
Must say I would not advise a synthetic on a new vehikle until the engine is broken in." Wait one full oil Change", or at least a few thousand miles with the factory installed oil.
Still miss. my Caravan, but sold it for three hundre bucks for it had many good parts.

das2123
09-21-2006, 09:14 AM
Must say I would nnot advise a synthetic on a new vehikle until the engine is broken in.Even Mobil 1 suggests that! Royal Purple however says you can use their own right away, which I do not agree with at all.

BlazerLT
09-21-2006, 12:58 PM
When getting a new vehicle, drop the oil after 500 miles, then after 100miles and switch right to synthetic.

It will be broken in and you won't be subjecting your engine to wear from the casting sand and wearing metals.

das2123
09-21-2006, 01:07 PM
^^^Might wanna say 500 miles of "easy" driving.

BlazerLT
09-21-2006, 01:10 PM
Nope, actually, if you want to get to the best way to break in any engine, you take it right off the dealer floor and do three full throttle accelerations from 20 up to 80-90mph.

Then take it home and drop the oil immediately. This seats the rings properly.

das2123
09-21-2006, 01:27 PM
Nope, actually, if you want to get to the best way to break in any engine, you take it right off the dealer floor and do three full throttle accelerations from 20 up to 80-90mph.

Then take it home and drop the oil immediately. This seats the rings properly.I have never heard of that, nor would I recommend it to anyone. Where did this theory arrive from?

BlazerLT
09-21-2006, 01:34 PM
Just because you haven't heard about it it doesn't mean it is wrong.

It is often used to break in racing and high preformance engines.

Many of my friends have used it and swear by how quickly it seats the rings and thus allows a better break in.

Here is a low down on it:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

das2123
09-21-2006, 01:38 PM
Just because you haven't heard about it it doesn't mean it is wrong.Agreed on that part.

It is often used to break in racing and high preformance engines.LOL...the neon is nowhere near a racing or high performance engine. I'm not saying thats what you are calling it, but this thread is in the neon forum :wink:

neon_rt
09-21-2006, 01:52 PM
Interesting break in method. The WOT is the method that I use on my new cars. WOT but not redline RPMs (difficult to do with an automatic). Then I usually change the oil and filter at 500 miles. Then go 2500 more. Then change to Mobil 1 and the largest filter that will fit on the engine.
The Mopar filters are small, there are several Ford filters that are compatible but larger (more filter capacity). I usually use the one designated for the Ford V8 (fl1 in some brands). My Rampage 2.2 calls for a really small oil filter because that is the only one that fits all the models (including the ones with A/C). Since I don't have A/C the full size Ford V8 filter fits just fine.

BlazerLT
09-22-2006, 01:42 PM
Agreed on that part.

LOL...the neon is nowhere near a racing or high performance engine. I'm not saying thats what you are calling it, but this thread is in the neon forum :wink:


Good lord......

It can be used on all 4 stroke engines.

Don't put down what you are too chicken to try.

Doesn't mean it is a bad method. It is how most racing engines are broken in and is the best way to break in a conventional engine as well.

yale329
09-23-2006, 12:02 PM
Did I see right, full throttle on a new engine ???????????
I would hope all would reconsider that post real good before trying such a stunt, vary your speeds. I'ts not being chicken, but foolish to pull such a stunt. First of all even racing engines are started first for quite some time to se what may have gone wrong when assembled. "Never mind the Television shows". Also most all Dealers would know quite quickly by the in board computor if you are blasting the hell out of your powertrain when it explodes. Even new vehicles can have a problem from the factory, so follow the break in procedure.
Not much has change since the 70's. Cripes, perhaps I am to old to here this kind of junk.

Just a Dad Wayne

BlazerLT
09-23-2006, 02:01 PM
Oh give me a break.

All you are preaching is ignorance.

Now go and do your 3000mile oil change and call it a day.

yale329
09-23-2006, 03:25 PM
Okay, ask das, and evryone else, although, I really think your a wanna be.
I mean it in all respect the best I could keep after your email, but it's your call. I have made many mistakes over 24
years and passed them on. Sorry if I offended you, but so many young people view this sight.
No bad feeling, just a Dad with many years of screw ups.
Wayne

BlazerLT
09-23-2006, 03:46 PM
Yes, any many old people preach advice from the 60s like it applies in todays engines.

Just because you are old doesn't mean you are knowledgeable. And just because someone is younger than you doesn't mean they are idiots.

Age doesn't equal intelligence you before you question me, do some research.

There are many professionals that use this technique because it works.

yale329
09-23-2006, 04:41 PM
okay blazer, that's it. Grow up, people need the best possible advice. Age was never my excuse for my reply, it's called past mistakes.
Don't email me again unless you respect my opinion as I do yours.
Wayne

BlazerLT
09-23-2006, 04:45 PM
Keep an open mind and don't slap down a different opinion just because it doesn't agree with yours.

"OH MY GOD, HE IS USING A DIFFERENT METHOD THAN MY DADDY TAUGHT ME...HE MUST BE WRONG........."

People say the same fear mongering crap with the 3000 mile oil change which is PROVEN TO BE completely false.

And I am not emailing you so stop think I am. Every post on this forum sends out an email saying someone replied to a thread that you are participating in.

Add your comment to this topic!