Nissan S13 vs. E30 325i

Hi,

I'm still searching for a cheap, not-too-high-maintenance, and most of all, RWD-car.
It should at least have about 150hp and shouldn't weigh over 1300kg.

My initial thought for a fun car was, of course, the Nissan S13.
Not the 240sx, the CA18-DET powered 200SX.
http://www.sydmannion.co.nz/200sx.jpg

Then another lightweight, RWD-car came into my mind:
The BMW E30, I'd buy either a 325i or a 320i:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/BMW-E30.jpg/300px-BMW-E30.jpg

I'll compare these in a "tabular" scheme on specifically important points.

Looks:

Of course, this is biased.
But face this situation: You see five E30s a day, looking rusty/dirty, sounding like a bag of nuts.
Unfortunately, it's the white-trash car No 1 here.

The S13 is sleek, small and rare. But it's a Nissan, and everybody here will think they see an old Mazda 323 or sth.

Performance:

325i: 170 hp at 5800 rpm, 226 Nm at 4000 rpm
S13: 171 hp at 6400 rpm, 229 Nm at 4000 rpm

They're pretty even here, only difference is that the BMW 6cyl will rev smooth and even up to the redline while the S13 has a turbo lag.

Weight:
325i: 1200 kg
S13: 1190 kg

well.. same here. The 325i has an alloy block, but the engine is definitely larger and probably weighs more that the CA18.
Important for handling.

But wait! I heard different voices - Keiichi Tsuchiya said the S13 tends to understeer. I'd like to have a little oversteer.



My opinion so far:

The BMW is cheaper and available. I can get good ones for about 900-1300$. And it's reliable.

The Nissan has better options on modifications. It looks better. It's got the whole JDM-thing I like.

Which one would you choose?

Any better ideas? (RWD, at-least-150hp, available?)

Nissan 200SX. More available mods, lighter car, higher revving, better on gas.

Just my opinion. :2cents:

It's not better on gas. It's pretty much the same, 9-11l/100km.
And the difference on the weight is just 10 kg.

They're about even on paper, so it really just comes down to which one you like more. I'm more of a Japan guy, so I voted S13.

I'm also a total Nissan-guy, but I heard of soo many people having problems with their CA18.

At least 20% of S13s that are available to me at the moment have damaged or broken engines. No compression, turbo broken (and still driven...), crankshaft bearings broken etc

And even if I spend maybe 2500$ on an S13, I might end up with burnt valves or sth like that.
Whereas the 325i keeps promising it'll last.

While the S13 doesn't have a spotless reliability record, the majority of the really messed up ones are because "JDM tyte" kids bought one, drove the SHIT out of it, took little to no care of it, and destroyed it. That's just a risk you're gonna have to take if you want the cheap speed and visceral feel of an older Japanese sports car.

Jup, but it's a bit different here in germany.
No over here one knows what 'JDM tyte' means, except maybe some die-hard Initial-D fans (me = not :smile:)

They're driven by a more dangerous group, the whoaa-cheap-power-people. stop! I also want cheap power, but I have technical knowledge (and a sense for gears, temperature etc..) and I care for my cars. Unfortunately, these people do not always. Buy an old Nissan, pedal to the metal till it dies.
Edit: well ok, in the end you got the same result. But those people don't know what they've got on their hands, no respect for old-school-jdm-lightweight-hatch.

I guess if I want to get a good one, I would have to spend about 3300-3600$. The price for two good 325i.

325i with no doubt. Especially if you live in Germany, where i assume parts are readily available and dirt cheap :)

definitely available.

but why would you choose the 325i?

I'm just a big fan of E30's. My cousin had a 325i; i like the way it went, sounded, and handled. It did have a lot of problems though, mainly electrical...

jup, heard of the electrical problems.

good thing - if electronics make problems, I'll simply go and buy another used motronic/ecu/whatever

did you ever drive an S13, and if so, how would you compare the handling?

Sorry, ive never driven an S13. I should tell you though, the 325 can be a real handful in the wet ;)

Just my two cents Ive got a S13 here in the states and it honestly depends on what your looking for. The nissan is not going to be as reliable as the BMW but its going to be ALOT cheaper to fix and find parts for. But I doubt your from the states so hell get the beemer, They handle awesome have a beautiful engine and are easy to drift. But the 200sx looks Soooooo much better. And with an upgraded blow off valve and a 3 inch exhaust it has a great sound. you honestly cant go wrong with either. I just think the S13 has a more modern look to it and has more potential in the long run.

my brother has a 240sx, and swaped out the KA18 for an SR20 for 1500 which makes a lot more power and has un believably too many mods for it, i say if you are serious buy the nissan and swap the motor. My mom has a 98' 328i and it has tons of problems costs a bill to repair, is great to drive but the 240 my bro has is a lot more fun...nissan over bimmer in this catagory for me, i know you said 200 so dont flame if youa re capable and serious the SR20DET will close to double your power with a few dollars...

For the same price of the SR20DET swap, you could buy all of the Dinan upgrades for the E30 325i, putting you at about 200hp. The BMW is a little nicer, and a bit more reliable. I would go with the Bavarians.

i see your point about BMW's being better quality but if you run any car hard as it seems he is talking about in his post that its going to have things break. The SR20DET is between 202-247 stock HP range, then upgrades beyond that can give you in the range or scope of 350 without damage to the engine block and components beyond that you will need internal upgrades, yes the Dinan can make close to the SR20 but with upgrades beyond that the SR20 is a proven engine and is still being installed into newer cars for the tunablity of it. It's mainly a matter of what he is planning against what he can manage.

I'm sorry to say so, but forget about the SR20.

No problem to pick one up here, but the CA18 is more than a worthy enemy for it.
The CA18 has a cast iron block which is very durable and robust.
About the costs for a swap - same money invested in the CA18, and I have stable 300 WHP. With less sweat and blood.
Not to mention the TÜV (our MOT) that will make a lot of problems to make the car street-legal.

Maybe it's just me, I'm so much into forced induction, the whole BMW-6cyl-N/A-thing is still a bit alien to me

i will say S13, i just love the timeless look of it...get the minor change body kit...as for the engine....if u are going to mod it...may i recommend you sending ur CA18DET to tomei? tomei is a firm that are specalise in tuning Nissan's engine...they have been tuning Nissan's engine since the L20 of the late 60's...and they take order for complete build engine. so u can send ur engine to Japan for a month or so and it will come back with all the after market part brand new with already tuned ECU. We have a Skyline GT-R R34 here with a complete build Tomei engine...900WHP+ (sorry for got the real number) but what i am saying is 300WHP for them is easy...and it will still be very reliable

well, sending it to tomei would be too expensive, but I know a lot of people/tuners which use the entire range of tomei parts, especially forged pistons/rods.

if u can rebuild the engine urself, i see no reason why u shouldn't buy the S13

money

nr. 1 reason so far.

I never modded/rebuilt an engine, so I'm a bit anxious about that.
As I said, I have a lot of technical insight and I'm also capable of fast learning. Still, this would be the first time.

So if anything goes wrong, I might end up with a lot of junk.

I got my license for three years now, drove more than 40,000mls and want to learn drifting and basic racing techniques now.
That's why I don't want to spend all the time in garages (I don't even have one).


But hey, I'm a rationalist but also courageous :D

CA18DE, turbo is a whole nother story, the us 240's don't come turbo so the CA18DET is out of the question unless you are going to buy a turbo kit for a couple grand...CA18DE would be all motor if you were looking to spend less that the SR20DET and would be a lot more technical because you are dealng with internals and such, too much work when you can swap it out and add bolt up upgrades for close to the price.

Plz....He is from Germany...

...damn germans always get the good shit...

the bmw is old and ugly, get the nissan.

I'm a huge BMW fan, but I cant imagine an E30 would be that unique in germany unless you gave it or found one with external modifications - they can look very sexy indeed.

My final decision is that if I were you, living in germany, i would take the s13. It's more unique and more versatile (and more popular in the drifting world, but that may just be because it's from japan). They may cost a little more for a good one, so i guess the financial issue is your call.

Its hard to find a good deal on a 3 series in the states, otherwise I'd probably have one.