PCV Oil Catch Can, see what your engine is burning!

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 03:36 AM

Nah, not necessary at all. There is a lot of hose seeing I didn't want any sharp bends to crimp the lines and restrict the flow.

This whole system installed in 5 minutes total.

Here is what you will need:

-Air Compressor Air/Water Separator
-Two 1/4" thread to 3/8" tube connectors.
-Four 1/2" hose clamps
-5-6 Cable Ties
-5-10 minutes worth of time.
-Teflon thread sealing tape for the fitting being screwed into the separator.
-depending on setup, 4-7 feet of 3/8" fuel line

You can get everything at Home Depot other than the 3/8 fuel line which you can get at you local auto supply store.

Works mint, and also, the oil that is caught DOES NOT get added back into the engine. You might think it is oil, but it is also a good portion fuel and contaminents.

After installing you will notice that you engine over time will start to run smoother and smoother as the carbon depostits are slowly burned out of the combustion chamber seeing there is nothing more being added to keep the deposits forming. Also, this will extend plug life considerably.

Hope you guy enjoy this, I love it, better in that plastic vial than in my intake fouling my plugs.

ZL1power69

10-16-2005, 10:50 AM

muzzy1maniac

10-16-2005, 12:03 PM

I wouldn't think you'd replace the PCV it's there as a vent. As for the oil - it would get burned up in the combustion chamber w/o this catch so it wouldn't change your oil consuption. If you regularly need to add oil you still will - if not then you still won't. I gotta get me one of these.

New project!!! DING DING!!!

ZL1power69

10-16-2005, 02:41 PM

ok now its making sense. now my only question is after the separator, where does the hose go? does it just connect to the PCV valve?

Brian R.

10-16-2005, 04:56 PM

couple questions for ya LT;
-does this completely eliminate the pcv valve?
-if so, how is this system conected to where the valve would have been (can't see it in the pics)
-whatever is collected in the system, is it just discarded?
-because this system is removing oil from the engine, do you need to keep adding oil every so often?
-where does this thing actually hang in relation to the engine (toward the radiator, next to the manifolds)? maybe a pic from the pass side would help.
-also, is it ok to leave the filter in the separator or does it need to be removed (one link u posted has the filter out but in ur video u left it in)?

No, don't remove your PCV valve. One critical function of the PCV valve is to prevent backfiring flame from getting back into the crankcase. It only allows gas flow in one direction - into the air plenum. That's why it's a one-way valve instead of just a tube.

Also, you need to retain the PCV connection to keep removing blow-by gases from the crankcase, not to mention keeping the trap itself working. The PCV valve eliminates alot of fuel dilution and acid contamination from the oil in the crankcase by sucking out contaminating gases.

Yes, just discard the gunk in the trap after it gets half full or so.

I would discard the filter. At worst, it lets a little of the air-borne gunk pass through. You will still catch alot. I am worried the filter will get more and more plugged with gunk over time and restrict the ventilation flow of the vapor out of the crankcase. I think, the more the better. If you decrease the crankcase ventilation, you will increase the oil contamination.

My 2 cents

BlazerBoyLT98

10-16-2005, 05:09 PM

Seems really neat. I will have to try this in expensive mod. Cool post and great pics!

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 06:04 PM

couple questions for ya LT;

You got it bro, fire away...... ;)

-does this completely eliminate the pcv valve?

No, you connect the hose to the PCV valve in the valve cover, the PCV valve remains.

-if so, how is this system conected to where the valve would have been (can't see it in the pics)

See above ^^^^^

-whatever is collected in the system, is it just discarded?

Yes, some people might think it is only oil, but it is actually oil + water + fuel + other random gases.

Discard it, this is the stuff you don't want going back into your oil. Just dump it into a safe and designated dumping container AKA old oil bottle.

-because this system is removing oil from the engine, do you need to keep adding oil every so often?

No, this is the oil that your engine will normally consume normally, the only thing is you are removing it instead of burning it. The results will be the same if not less burning seeing you will be keeping the oil cleaning and stopping the excess fuel from thinning you oil out. It is this oil that gums up you intake and valve.

Cliff's Notes: Nothing will change, if anything will change, oil consumption will be lower.

-where does this thing actually hang in relation to the engine (toward the radiator, next to the manifolds)? maybe a pic from the pass side would help.

Ok, you have to mount it where it is accessable and where it is safe from being damaged. You don't need to be fancy, as you see, I used cabel ties and it doesn't move a fraction of an inch.

Here is the requested photo you asked for, other year engines like 1996+ will probably benefit from a driver's side mount seeing the PCV valve is in the driver's side valve cover whereas my 1995 CPI engine has it in the passenger side cover.

Again, remember mount it on the side which your PCV valve is mounted.

http://x10.putfile.com/10/28817005397.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

-also, is it ok to leave the filter in the separator or does it need to be removed (one link u posted has the filter out but in ur video u left it in)?

Yes, leave the filter in, I am sorry I confused you that way. Remember, not all the photos were mine (The photos in the post with the video is mine) . Leave the filter in and it will slow the flow down so more oil will and can be extracted. When I reinstalled the filter, the trapped oil amount went up a lot.

Hope this info helps you.

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 06:04 PM

Oh and remember guys, this mod costs less than 25 bucks.

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 06:19 PM

Just for your information, guys, here is how it goes:

1.) The separator has a flow direction, it has an arrow denoting that direction.

2.) Hose connects to the pcv valve and travels to the inlet side of the separator.

3.) Then the hose connected to the outlet side is connected to the connectio on the intake.

4.) You are done.

See, it is so easy. Just use fuel line and not flimy tubing seeing the gas is hot and the tube will actually collapse from the vacuum and heat.

Also, do NOT try to get cheap with the hose and have the hose turned at sharp angles seeing you will be crimping the hose and restricting flow.

VERY IMPORTANT, KNOW THE SIDE WHERE YOU PCV VALVE IS AND NOT THE SIDE FOR YOUR FRESH AIR INTAKE.

ZL1power69

10-16-2005, 06:23 PM

yes that helped me alot. I have everything except the hose which i'll get tomorrow. just 2 final questions for ya;
-can that filter be cleaned by like rinsing it out with water?
-brian r makes a good point: if the filter slows down the air flow to capture more contamenents, wouldn't that reduced airflow to the pcv cause the problem that the system is trying to eliminate?

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 06:31 PM

yes that helped me alot. I have everything except the hose which i'll get tomorrow. just 2 final questions for ya;

Ok, here we go again.....I kid...I kid......

-can that filter be cleaned by like rinsing it out with water?

It is a solid plastic filter and when you look inside of it, it is mostly hollow. You cna clean it in some mild cleaner every once in a while. But it won't be trapping much solids, more gases and liquid which flow right through it.

-brian r makes a good point: if the filter slows down the air flow to capture more contamenents, wouldn't that reduced airflow to the pcv cause the problem that the system is trying to eliminate?

You see, this is what I though to when I initially removed it. The thing is, my engine idle was 50rpms above where it was before which is because the hose tubing is quite large and you don't have that much restriction in the system.

I installed the filter again and everything smoothed out and the idle is perfect and spot on again. It was leting too much flow through and I know that the PCV valve is supposed to regulate that, but out PCV valves are not spring loaded so it will open up even more.

Even with the filter installed, you will be flowing more than the stock setup.

Trust me on this, I have had this installed for over 3 weeks now. And no, you are still getting rid of all the gases in the crankcase and there is nothing being left behind.

ZL1power69

10-16-2005, 07:03 PM

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 07:09 PM

yea sry about all the damn questions, lol. i just like to know all the details before i start a project. i got it all straight now and i'll install the system tomorrow. again thanks for the info. i'll let ya know how it works out seeing that i have the same engine.

Oh for sure, and also route the hose coming from the PCV valve through the back of the accumulator and have a little slack going down to the PCV valve connection so you don't have the PCV valve on an angle.

ZL1power69

10-16-2005, 07:15 PM

Oh for sure, and also route the hose coming from the PCV valve through the back of the accumulator and have a little slack going down to the PCV valve connection so you don't have the PCV valve on an angle.
thanks for that tip. i had planed on using ur photos as a "map". I'll route it exactly as u have it on urs. this system might be a cheap way to save my high mileage motor.

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 09:11 PM

thanks for that tip. i had planed on using ur photos as a "map". I'll route it exactly as u have it on urs. this system might be a cheap way to save my high mileage motor.

Oh for sure. You will like it. Might as well install a news PCV valve while you are at it if you have never done it.

ZL1power69

10-16-2005, 09:33 PM

Oh for sure. You will like it. Might as well install a news PCV valve while you are at it if you have never done it.
changed the pcv as part of the tune up i did while performing the cpi swap so i'm good to go :bigthumb:.

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 09:51 PM

changed the pcv as part of the tune up i did while performing the cpi swap so i'm good to go :bigthumb:.

Excellent, take photos of your install.

ZL1power69

10-16-2005, 09:59 PM

Excellent, take photos of your install.
i'll do that.

Brian R.

10-16-2005, 10:42 PM

It is a solid plastic filter and when you look inside of it, it is mostly hollow. You cna clean it in some mild cleaner every once in a while. But it won't be trapping much solids, more gases and liquid which flow right through it.

It was leting too much flow through and I know that the PCV valve is supposed to regulate that, but out PCV valves are not spring loaded so it will open up even more.

Even with the filter installed, you will be flowing more than the stock setup.

The oil that is in the filter will restrict flow through the filter. It will continuously and slowly flow through the filter, slowly since the oil is viscous, and continuously since once it flows through the filter, it will be replaced by more oil from the crankcase. Your oil viscosity and dilution will change how much the filter restricts flow, so each engine will have different restrictions. As the filter gets dirty, it will restrict more.

The PCV valve is the biggest restriction in the stock system by alot. If you hook up bigger tubing, it will not make any difference to the flow since it will not affect the PCV valve restriction. Also, the PCV valve is either on or off. There is no variability to how open it is. If it clicks closed, it is closed. If it clicks open, it is open. If the filter becomes nearly as restrictive or more restrictive than the PCV valve, then the total restriction of the PCV system will increase and you will get less flow out of the crankcase.

It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.

tblake

10-16-2005, 10:48 PM

I'm kinda being nosy here, but what are the real benafits of installing such a system?

Brian R.

10-16-2005, 10:50 PM

You are trapping contaminated oil that is otherwise burned by the engine. The oil will contribute to carbon formation in the combustion chamber as well as emissions.

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 11:11 PM

The oil that is in the filter will restrict flow through the filter. It will continuously and slowly flow through the filter, slowly since the oil is viscous, and continuously since once it flows through the filter, it will be replaced by more oil from the crankcase. Your oil viscosity and dilution will change how much the filter restricts flow, so each engine will have different restrictions. As the filter gets dirty, it will restrict more.

The PCV valve is the biggest restriction in the stock system by alot. If you hook up bigger tubing, it will not make any difference to the flow since it will not affect the PCV valve restriction. Also, the PCV valve is either on or off. There is no variability to how open it is. If it clicks closed, it is closed. If it clicks open, it is open. If the filter becomes nearly as restrictive or more restrictive than the PCV valve, then the total restriction of the PCV system will increase and you will get less flow out of the crankcase.

It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.

Brian,

I sincerely appreciate your contribution to this thread.

Unfortuneately, I am going to have to disagree with you there based on the following. I thought the same thing and I cut the element out seeing you still need the filter element assembly to put everything together. I did this and the idle engine speed went up by close to 50-75rpms. I then installed a new filter element back in there and everything went back to normal. The increase in hose size did allow for more flow through the assembly and because you also removed the small stock PCV hose size restriction which lead to more flow and there for the engine recognized it as a vacuum leak. Even if there is only a finite amount the pcv valve opens up doesn't mean there is a finite amount of air that can be sucked through that diameter of opening.

http://x10.putfile.com/10/28821583721-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28821583721.jpg&s=x10)

The filter element does restrict the flow, but nothing close to what you think it does.

As shown above, the filter is incredibely porous and if you blow or suck through the actual full assembled separator assembly, the restriction is minimal.

What it boils down to is the filter does not hinder the PCV gas evacuation from the crankcase. As you can see in the photos, it is getting PLENTY of airflow if it is able to get that much oil in that small of a timeframe.

I tested it both ways and the engine and filter performs better with the filter installed. With the filter cut, the flow was just too high and oil way not being separated as well. The flow was too high and some of the oil was still getting through and into the intake.

It is perfect with the filter installed. Check out the other links in the first post in this thread. Most people actually leave it in.

Brian R.

10-16-2005, 11:31 PM

drdd

10-16-2005, 11:34 PM

with the filter and catch can being oriented at 90 degrees to the hose/air flow ... ... ... how is the oil/air/fuel/gunk being drawn towards the filter and into the can?

does the filter extend up into the black plastic part with the directional arrow? meaning all flow must go thru the filter first?

Brian,

I sincerely appreciate your contribution to this thread.

Unfortuneately, I am going to have to disagree with you there based on the following. I thought the same thing and I cut the element out seeing you still need the filter element assembly to put everything together. I did this and the idle engine speed went up by close to 50-75rpms. I then installed a new filter element back in there and everything went back to normal. The increase in hose size did allow for more flow through the assembly and because you also removed the small stock PCV hose size restriction which lead to more flow and there for the engine recognized it as a vacuum leak. Even if there is only a finite amount the pcv valve opens up doesn't mean there is a finite amount of air that can be sucked through that diameter of opening.

http://x10.putfile.com/10/28821583721-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28821583721.jpg&s=x10)

The filter element does restrict the flow, but nothing close to what you think it does.

As shown above, the filter is incredibely porous and if you blow or suck through the actual full assembled separator assembly, the restriction is minimal.

What it boils down to is the filter does not hinder the PCV gas evacuation from the crankcase. As you can see in the photos, it is getting PLENTY of airflow if it is able to get that much oil in that small of a timeframe.

I tested it both ways and the engine and filter performs better with the filter installed. With the filter cut, the flow was just too high and oil way not being separated as well. The flow was too high and some of the oil was still getting through and into the intake.

It is perfect with the filter installed. Check out the other links in the first post in this thread. Most people actually leave it in.

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 11:44 PM

As I said, if you leave the filter in, you better have a way of check it's contribution to flow restriction as time goes on. Your short time using it is not indicative of how it will perform in your truck (nor in other's trucks) in the future. How much it resticts the flow now and how much it restricts the flow in 20k miles are two different things.

Regardless of what happens in your truck, i think it is advisable for everyone who tampers with the PCV system to be cautious and be aware of how much each truck differs in blow-by, as well as oil viscosity.

Extrapolating advise to everyone on the basis of what is best for your truck is chancy in this type of modification, at best.

All I am communicating is what I have noticed and what performs the best through my in-hand testing.

If you are concerned about restrictions, you can always clean it every 10,000 miles or clean it everytime you dump out the trapped oil.

Reagardless, the benefits out-weigh all drawbacks and if anyone is concerned you, can see the 1000s of them on ebay and on racing and performance enthusiest sites along with the links in the top starting post in this thread.

Thanks for your contribution Brian, I rally appreciate it. :)

BlazerLT

10-16-2005, 11:46 PM

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 12:01 AM

All I am communicating is what I have noticed and what performs the best through my in-hand testing.

If you are concerned about restrictions, you can always clean it every 10,000 miles or clean it everytime you dump out the trapped oil.

Reagardless, the benefits out-weigh all drawbacks and if anyone is concerned you, can see the 1000s of them on ebay and on racing and performance enthusiest sites along with the links in the top starting post in this thread.

I understand your purpose exactly and I am not misinterpreting that at all. I am just making sure that everyone sees the possible problems with this system. I don't care if everyone in the world uses it. Popularity has very little to do with functionality, particularly when there is a drawback that is not easily measured, as there is in this case. I am not concerned about restrictions (since I will not install this) but everyone who does install it better be concerned about restrictions. I am only concerned about their engines.

Your caution about washing the filter periodically is exactly the type of caution that needed to be submitted up front, and my point in bringing this to everyone's attention since it was obviously overlooked. I think it is absolutely necessary to either check it by flow, or clean it. How often is going to be each person's responsibility to determine for their engine and driving habits, oil viscosity, etc. If their engine gunks up the PCV valve, it will certainly gunk up that filter over time.

ZL1power69

10-17-2005, 12:11 AM

so either don't use the filter or use it, but clean it when u dump out the contamenents. thats all u had to say.

drdd

10-17-2005, 12:20 AM

sorry to be so 'un-scientific' but ... if it flows (with no change in vacuum or rpms or idel), then, it flows! right!

of course, oil will slightly restrict flow ...

all filters (and the junk that they collect) slightly restrict flow ... thats why we replace filters ...

" ... It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.[/QUOTE ... "

IS NOT THE CATCH-CAN ITSELF A WAY OF TELLING IF IT IS RESTRICTING PCV SYSTEM FLOW ???!!!

If idle/vacuum are OK, and oil/gas/vapors are collecting in the can ... what other evidence is necessary ???

The oil that is in the filter will restrict flow through the filter. It will continuously and slowly flow through the filter, slowly since the oil is viscous, and continuously since once it flows through the filter, it will be replaced by more oil from the crankcase. Your oil viscosity and dilution will change how much the filter restricts flow, so each engine will have different restrictions. As the filter gets dirty, it will restrict more.

The PCV valve is the biggest restriction in the stock system by alot. If you hook up bigger tubing, it will not make any difference to the flow since it will not affect the PCV valve restriction. Also, the PCV valve is either on or off. There is no variability to how open it is. If it clicks closed, it is closed. If it clicks open, it is open. If the filter becomes nearly as restrictive or more restrictive than the PCV valve, then the total restriction of the PCV system will increase and you will get less flow out of the crankcase.

It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 12:23 AM

I understand your purpose exactly and I am not misinterpreting that at all. I am just making sure that everyone sees the possible problems with this system. I don't care if everyone in the world uses it. Popularity has very little to do with functionality, particularly when there is a drawback that is not easily measured, as there is in this case. I am not concerned about restrictions (since I will not install this) but everyone who does install it better be concerned about restrictions. I am only concerned about their engines.

Your caution about washing the filter periodically is exactly the type of caution that needed to be submitted up front, and my point in bringing this to everyone's attention since it was obviously overlooked. I think it is absolutely necessary to either check it by flow, or clean it. How often is going to be each person's responsibility to determine for their engine and driving habits, oil viscosity, etc. If their engine gunks up the PCV valve, it will certainly gunk up that filter over time.

If you have a bad restriction in this PCV system on this truck, you wil know it. The engine wil actually start to stumble and the idle rpms will fall low enough that the engine idle rather poorly.

If you want a test for that when you install this system, pinch the PCV hose between your thumb and index finger and you will hear the engine idle drop about 100rpms. You release and the idle sooths out perfectly.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 12:33 AM

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 12:46 AM

so either don't use the filter or use it, but clean it when u dump out the contamenents. thats all u had to say.

No. Apparently, in BlazerLT's engine, you have to use the filter to add restriction. If your engine is exactly the same as his, then you better use the filter too.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 01:02 AM

sorry to be so 'un-scientific' but ... if it flows (with no change in vacuum or rpms or idel), then, it flows! right!

of course, oil will slightly restrict flow ...

all filters (and the junk that they collect) slightly restrict flow ... thats why we replace filters ...

" ... It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.[/QUOTE ... "

IS NOT THE CATCH-CAN ITSELF A WAY OF TELLING IF IT IS RESTRICTING PCV SYSTEM FLOW ???!!!

If idle/vacuum are OK, and oil/gas/vapors are collecting in the can ... what other evidence is necessary ???

Yes, it will always flow to some extent. How much restriction you can tolerate without additional oil contamination is unknown.

Yes, that is why you replace filters. I don't believe that most people who read the first few posts in this thread would replace or clean that filter periodically. It's my job to make sure that any advice given out is as complete as possible so that anyone who reads about any recommendations on this site isn't mislead or remains even partially uninformed. I have to be more careful than the average poster. The reputation of this site and this forum is at stake.

No, the catch-can will not tell you what flow is going through the system. If you never catch any oil, then you have no flow and that's about all you can say. If the flow is restricted, then how much is acceptable? I doubt you or I or BlazerLT, or for that matter anyone else here knows that.

All I can do is make you aware of potential problems that I see. I don't mind being corrected by anyone who knows more about a particular engine than I do. Such discussion adds to everyone's knowledge. In the end, it's your truck and you can do what you like to it. I just don't want people to go away from here partially uninformed.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 01:06 AM

If you have a bad restriction in this PCV system on this truck, you wil know it. The engine wil actually start to stumble and the idle rpms will fall low enough that the engine idle rather poorly.

If you want a test for that when you install this system, pinch the PCV hose between your thumb and index finger and you will hear the engine idle drop about 100rpms. You release and the idle sooths out perfectly.

Excellent - here is a way of telling if you have no flow. Now the $64,000 question that everyone should figure out is: How much flow restriction is acceptable and how much is harmful to your engine?

This is not important only if the filter never gets plugged further than it is when freshly installed. If it gets more and more plugged, you have a problem that is different for each engine.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 01:23 AM

Excellent - here is a way of telling if you have no flow. Now the $64,000 question that everyone should figure out is: How much flow restriction is acceptable and how much is harmful to your engine?

This is not important only if the filter never gets plugged further than it is when freshly installed. If it gets more and more plugged, you have a problem that is different for each engine.

Easy really, check your idle rpms, if it is in the range, you are fine. If it was plugged your engine will idle low.

Also, there is proactically no chance that an liquid will plug this coarse filter. Only solids will.

BlitzKeg

10-17-2005, 01:26 AM

yea, I would'nt recommend this to anybody who has a problem with keeping up there car maintence.

If your pcv filter became clogged it can cause oil leaks from seals and/or gaskets due to high crankcase pressures.

besides the blow-by, fuel, and moisture from the crankcase actually helps the combustion process by improving drivability and performance.

Its normal for automobiles to have some oil comsumption. just aslong its nothing big.

If you suspect your valves be clogged, just use a top end engine cleaner.

the way I see it, if it works fine why f*** with it? :cheers:

BlitzKeg

10-17-2005, 01:37 AM

oh yea a good way to check ur pcv valve is to either take it out and shake it,....
its normal for the valve plunger inside the valve body to make a rattle,,....no rattle bad valve.

or you can use a suitable tool to pinch the pcv valve hose while the engine is at idle,..
there should be a change rpms when u pinch and u may hear a clicking noise when releasing and pinching the hose.
No change in rpms or no click means bad valve.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 01:45 AM

Try it if you want, but I don't think blowby gas is good for the driveability.

Our engines are only made to recycle this back into the intake for emmisions and environmental purposes, NOT to make the engine run better.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 02:02 AM

It's good that you can see restriction in your truck. I don't know how good an indicator this is for others with either the same or different engines.

Thanks for attempting to answer my questions.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 02:29 AM

It's good that you can see restriction in your truck. I don't know how good an indicator this is for others with either the same or different engines.

Thanks for attempting to answer my questions.

I hope you are not upset with me. =(

Ah, the $64,000 question you mean, it sounded more like a statement, not something youwanted me to answer directly.

You know what enough flow is, it is enough that the idle is exactly the same as before when it was not installed.

The MAP pressure sensor will tell you that for sure and does the measurements for you by controlling the vacuum in the intake.

If my idle is the same, then the flow and vacuum must be the same right?

Either way, you are removing the PCV gas out of the crank seeing if you didn't have enough flow, you sure wouldn't be bringing enough vapour into the separator to cause that amount of oil to collect.

But honestly, I installed it as many other have and suffered no problems whatsoever over 1000s of miles worth of direct evidence.

I understand you point but nothing is exact science like you seem to want it to be.

Example

- Do you think the difference in airflow from a cold air intake might hurt the engine?
- Does a high performance muffler reduce backpressure and does that hurt the exhaust valves?

Do we have any hard evidence saying that these tow things might in the long run cause harm to our engine? Not really....

But they sure will help which is exactly what this mod does. If it was a problem or it caused potential damage, you wouldn't think the diesel industry would use it in their industrial applications because I know my father's construction equipment has it.

Most of his equpment is 10-20 years old and working just fine.

Most of the mods on the market don't have the hard tested evidence you are asking for Brian.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 03:35 AM

Upset with you? No never. The only way I'd be upset is if you refused to discuss it and called me some kind of asshole for asking questions. You always attempt to answer question and do a really good job in that regard.

I don't expect answers to all the questions perfectly. I want answers to as many as possible. If you run out of science, it's not your fault. The systems are too damn complex. Once I know the limit of people's understanding of the system, I can give better recommendations on what to do and what not to do.

Getting that discussion on paper (more or less) is important for others to make up their mind about whether to adopt a mod or not. Saying "I've tried it and it worked for me" is not good enough for alot of engine mods. People need as much information as is available to provide the most critical of them to make an informed decision. Many mods are so simple in their effect, this is not necessary. This mod your advocating is not simple in its effect on the crankcase ventilation over time.

If the "hard tested evidence" is not available, I can easily live with that. That's the way things normally are. I just want to know that it's not available and have it on paper for the reasons I've just cited.

Just to belabor one point. IMO, the lack of oil in the separator is too coarse of an indicator to show that flow has been reduced when and if the filter partially plugs. The reduction in flow may be critical to crankcase ventilation and oil life.

Those examples you provided are much more simple than the mod in question. They both only change airflow through the combustion chambers of the engine. The potential problem with the oil-separator is a reduction in crankcase ventilation when the filter partially plugs. That is much more complex a system (lubricating ability of engine oil over time with varying ventilation) and really difficult to predict, even in an engine you are extremely familiar with - much less the rest of the engines belonging to people who might read this forum.

Don't worry about me. I think I know my limitations. :)

PS I apologize if I've trashed your thread with nonsense. To me, it's important - I know it isn't to everyone.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 05:05 AM

I appreciate your thoughts and you are right on the money.

But I wantd to firm up one point. The filter is on the outlet of the separator and fluid is unable to plug it. There is no relative solids coming through this system so filter plugging is practically non-existent.

The filter is extremely coarse and by the picture I showed earlier with is cut across the center, it is not a considerable restriction even when wet.

herkyhawki

10-17-2005, 10:38 AM

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 12:00 PM

This will mainly help high-mileage engines. Large amounts of oil are an indication of excessive blow-by due to worn piston rings. As the amount of blow-by increases, the velocity of flow through the PCV system increases. The faster-flowing air is able to keep more oil-mist particles in suspension, and therefore carries more oil mist through the PCV system.
One thing to keep an eye on is to watch for new leaks from your engine gaskets. Addition of this filter will increase the pressure that is acting on all the seals and gaskets in your engine.
With all things considered, it is probably a good idea IF the separator screen is always clean, AND you change your oil often.
Another indication of excessive blow-by or plugged/restricted PCV is prescense of oil in the breather inlet line (hose from air filter to valve cover).
When the amount of blow-by exceeds the amount that can flow through the PCV valve, the blow-by starts to flow OUT of the breather line, where it is sucked into the main air intake. If your intake butterfly is getting gummed up, this is why. So if the addition of this separator causes restriction, you should keep an eye on the breather hose for signs of oil.

I understand what you are saying, but my friend just installed this on his 2004 Civic with 20,000 miles and he is already seeing collection after only 1000 miles. Honda's are known to really consume oil through the PCV system.

This system will NOT cause crankcase pressure. I just removed the hose connected to the PCV valve and stuck my finger over the hole and the suction was so strong it kinda hurt and left a raised area of skin that was sucked up the hole in the hose. I then removed the hose from the outlet side of the filter and again stuck my finger over the hole and was met with the same state with no real difference felt.

The filter in this setup is not a serious restriction in this system. The filter element is extemely thin and I wish you guys would go buy one and look instead of saying it is restrictive from your computer chair. There is no way a liquid can plug this small hollow porous filter element. It just won't happen.

As said earlier, I thought the same thing as you guys and cut the element off only to have to much PCV flow through causing the engine to perform and idle like I had a vacuum leak.

I will prove this by attaching a vacuum gauge sometime in the near future for you guys to show the relative small difference.

ZL1power69

10-17-2005, 02:38 PM

LT, i just finished the install on my 95 jimmy 5 minutes ago. Took about 10 minutes to install. I started the truck and the idle was spot on. I also left the filter in. like u said, i looked at the filter and it is thin. I installed it similar to urs. i routed the hose coming from the pcv behind the accumulator and tucked it in between the ecm and the accumulator. How long did it take for u to notice contamenents in the separator? I am curious to see how this thing works on my 200,000+ mile engine. anyway, i'll get some pics up here ASAP. O and the total cost was about $30-$40. thanks to everyone for the info and i'll keep u updated on the system's performance.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 03:27 PM

Shouldn't take long at all.

Remove the PCV valve with it hooked up and feel the strong vacuum still there. You can reference me as to just how strong this vacuum is.

ZL1power69

10-17-2005, 03:39 PM

Shouldn't take long at all.

Remove the PCV valve with it hooked up and feel the strong vacuum still there. You can reference me as to just how strong this vacuum is.
i just did what u told me to do. yes the vacuum is very stong and it does hurt after a while. just as i put my finger over the hose, the engine started to bog down. let off and the idle rises somewhat. plug the pcv back in and normal idle resumes. i guess this means the system is working well.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 07:32 PM

I understand what you are saying, but my friend just installed this on his 2004 Civic with 20,000 miles and he is already seeing collection after only 1000 miles. Honda's are known to really consume oil through the PCV system.

This system will NOT cause crankcase pressure. I just removed the hose connected to the PCV valve and stuck my finger over the hole and the suction was so strong it kinda hurt and left a raised area of skin that was sucked up the hole in the hose. I then removed the hose from the outlet side of the filter and again stuck my finger over the hole and was met with the same state with no real difference felt.

You are confusing vacuum (a presure measurement) with air flow (a mass transfer measurement). They are two different things. Your finger stopped the flow and measured the vacuum available. This vacuum is available anywhere in the system and is independent of the opening. Flow is dependent on the diameter of the opening and the difference in pressure between the two sides of the opening.

This is analogous to measuring normal fuel pressure and assuming your fuel filter is OK. You have to measure fuel flow to see if the fuel filter is plugged and you are starved for fuel. Vacuum is a static measurement. Flow is dynamic.

BlazerLT

10-17-2005, 08:25 PM

You are confusing vacuum (a presure measurement) with air flow (a mass transfer measurement). They are two different things. Your finger stopped the flow and measured the vacuum available. This vacuum is available anywhere in the system and is independent of the opening. Flow is dependent on the diameter of the opening and the difference in pressure between the two sides of the opening.

This is analogous to measuring normal fuel pressure and assuming your fuel filter is OK. You have to measure fuel flow to see if the fuel filter is plugged and you are starved for fuel. Vacuum is a static measurement. Flow is dynamic.

Yes, but if there was a restriction there wouldn't be any vacuum or very small flow.

There is a lot of vacuum and flow here and we both have seen it and experienced it.

drdd

10-17-2005, 09:17 PM

doesn't the pcv valve control airflow (mass) by how far it opens? At low idle, blowby is not strong which means the pcv valve will only open slightly. Under heavier engine load, the blowby is greater and the pcv opens wider allowing more airflow (mass) to go thru.

Thus, if vacuum is normal (as determined by MAP and idle), then the PCV is under normal conditions / circumstances to do its job controlling the (mass) ... ???

also, if the blowby is so strong that the pcv cant allow ALLl blowby to escape (or perhaps the catchcan filter is slightly dirty) then the excess goes back thru the breather hose? is that right?

seems like changes in airflow (mass) caused by a filter (gradually over time becoming saturated) would be compensated for at the PCV valve.

thoughts ??

You are confusing vacuum (a presure measurement) with air flow (a mass transfer measurement). They are two different things. Your finger stopped the flow and measured the vacuum available. This vacuum is available anywhere in the system and is independent of the opening. Flow is dependent on the diameter of the opening and the difference in pressure between the two sides of the opening.

This is analogous to measuring normal fuel pressure and assuming your fuel filter is OK. You have to measure fuel flow to see if the fuel filter is plugged and you are starved for fuel. Vacuum is a static measurement. Flow is dynamic.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 09:24 PM

Yes, but if there was a restriction there wouldn't be any vacuum or very small flow.

That's not correct. As long as there is any flow (and no leaks), you will get the same vacuum as with high flow. That's my point.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 09:26 PM

drdd

10-17-2005, 09:32 PM

yup, I just got to thinking ... its not a spring loaded valve ...

got it.

The PCV valve only controls the direction of flow (a check valve), not how much is flowing. It is not a variable valve, only an on-off valve.

What you said about the strong blowby is pretty much correct.

drdd

10-17-2005, 09:54 PM

http://gm-trucks.com/IAR_pcv.shtml

fixed-orifice VS valve style?????????????

thoughts ?

would changing over to the fixed-orifice (kinky) do the same thing as the catch-can? are these on late-model trucks?

The PCV valve only controls the direction of flow (a check valve), not how much is flowing. It is not a variable valve, only an on-off valve.

What you said about the strong blowby is pretty much correct.

Brian R.

10-17-2005, 10:03 PM

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 01:15 AM

doesn't the pcv valve control airflow (mass) by how far it opens? At low idle, blowby is not strong which means the pcv valve will only open slightly. Under heavier engine load, the blowby is greater and the pcv opens wider allowing more airflow (mass) to go thru.

Thus, if vacuum is normal (as determined by MAP and idle), then the PCV is under normal conditions / circumstances to do its job controlling the (mass) ... ???

also, if the blowby is so strong that the pcv cant allow ALLl blowby to escape (or perhaps the catchcan filter is slightly dirty) then the excess goes back thru the breather hose? is that right?

seems like changes in airflow (mass) caused by a filter (gradually over time becoming saturated) would be compensated for at the PCV valve.

thoughts ??

Ok, once and for all, liquids cannot plug this filter. We cannot compare this to an air filter. It is so coarse and stiff it will not plug. The filter element is NOT SOLID, it is just a shell and take a look at the previous photos of a cut away of it.

So please guys, stop saying this filter is going to plug up seeing that any excess in the filter will just drip out and into the vial once you turn your engine off if there is any oil in it at all.

If you have that much blow-by, even a stock system would have a problem with it.

This system does not restrict the PCV line at all. It is made to flow compressed air at over 150psi or the negatice pressure here is practically child's play for it.

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 01:28 AM

"GM has a new pcv valve that is used on their trucks that is suppose to help reduce oil consumption that some customers have complained of. The new pcv valve (GM P/N 12572717) is known as a “fixed orifice” pcv valve. It does not have any internal moving parts, like many pcv valves do, and will not rattle when shaken."

I'd be interested in finding out more about that valve.

http://gm-trucks.com/images/Guides/changepcv/pcv_valves.jpg

Now THAT is what you call a restriction. :lol:

Now you can see that this filter is not a big deal now if GM uses sucha small opening there. ;)

Brian R.

10-18-2005, 02:20 AM

http://gm-trucks.com/images/Guides/changepcv/pcv_valves.jpg

Now THAT is what you call a restriction. :lol:

Now you can see that this filter is not a big deal now if GM uses sucha small opening there. ;)

Here we go with another $64,000 question: What is the point of greatest restriction in a stock PCV valve? It's obvious where it is in this new valve.

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 02:24 AM

Stock system?

I think the major restriction is probably within the crankcase itself.

Can we downgrade to a $64 question, you are emptying my AF bank account here. :lol:

ZL1power69

10-18-2005, 10:24 AM

LT, i have had this system on for 30 miles now and already contamenents are being trapped in the separator.

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 05:20 PM

LT, i have had this system on for 30 miles now and already contamenents are being trapped in the separator.

Doesn't surprise me at all. That stuff would be in your if you never extracted it..

ZL1power69

10-18-2005, 10:08 PM

Excellent, take photos of your install.
Here ya go dude. sorry for the size and quality of the pics. my digital camera is not working so i used my cell phone, lol.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4147/1995gmcjimmy0132tv.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1203/1995gmcjimmy0127kg.jpg
as u can see this is the crap this thing caught after having it installed for about 30 miles.
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7154/1995gmcjimmy0119de.jpg

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 11:23 PM

Here ya go dude. sorry for the size and quality of the pics. my digital camera is not working so i used my cell phone, lol.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4147/1995gmcjimmy0132tv.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1203/1995gmcjimmy0127kg.jpg
as u can see this is the crap this thing caught after having it installed for about 30 miles.
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7154/1995gmcjimmy0119de.jpg

Holy hell bro, you have more than I have after over 400 miles. Good thing you installed that system, that is one helluva lot of oil going back into the intake.

Also, I noticed where you have the hose going from the filter to the intake. Remove the tubing and have the tube going behind the throttle intake bracket instead of through it just in case it interferes with the throttle cable at all just to be cautious.

Like this.

http://x2.putfile.com/10/28720582351.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

Also, do you have the filter positioned so the arrow is pointing towards the intake?

Can you show me a pic of where it is attached to the PCV valve?

Make sure you give it lots of slack so the PCV valve sits in its rubber grommet properly. Having not enough slack will have the PCV valve sitting on an angle.

nrlemons

10-18-2005, 11:25 PM

hmm just curious would the oil that the engine burns normally without the catch can make for a slightly oil burning smell in the exhaust, makes sense it would.

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 11:32 PM

hmm just curious would the oil that the engine burns normally without the catch can make for a slightly oil burning smell in the exhaust, makes sense it would.

Not all of it burns, but a portion will. The rest will accumulate in the upper plenum and drain back into the crankcase where it will contaminate the engine oil faster.

ZL1power69

10-18-2005, 11:38 PM

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 11:45 PM

no prob LT, i'll get that pic of the pcv up for u tomorrow. I do have the hose from the filter to the intake behind the throttle bracket, u just can see it in that pic. yes the arrow on the filter is pointing toward the intake.

Take a photo os where it is going to the intake so I can see it along with the PCV valve one.

In my pic you can see the slack I have on the hose just before the PCV valve.

ZL1power69

10-18-2005, 11:50 PM

Take a photo os where it is going to the intake so I can see it along with the PCV valve one.

In my pic you can see the slack I have on the hose just before the PCV valve.
again, not a problem. when i get back from class in the morning, i'll snap those pics for ya.

BlazerLT

10-18-2005, 11:54 PM

Thanks bud, I appreciate it.

herkyhawki

10-19-2005, 09:36 AM

The rest will accumulate in the upper plenum and drain back into the crankcase where it will contaminate the engine oil faster.

There is no path for drainage to flow from the plenum to the crankcase. Once the oil mist reaches th plenum it will stick there or stick in the intake runners or flow into the combustion chambers.
Overall this filter is a good idea if you remember to service it regulaly. I used to think all the black coating in the intakes was from EGR, but now I see that at least some of it is from PCV.

ZL1power69

10-19-2005, 11:27 AM

There is no path for drainage to flow from the plenum to the crankcase. Once the oil mist reaches th plenum it will stick there or stick in the intake runners or flow into the combustion chambers.
Overall this filter is a good idea if you remember to service it regulaly. I used to think all the black coating in the intakes was from EGR, but now I see that at least some of it is from PCV.
on the cpi 4.3, there are holes in the lower plenum that can allow oil and gas(if cpi is leaking) down into the crankcase.

ZL1power69

10-19-2005, 12:13 PM

LT, here are the pics u requested;

as u can see, i left some slack in the hose that is between the a/c accumulator and the pcv. the pcv sits perfictly flat in the hole.
http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/1269/1995gmcjimmy0144dh.jpg

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/8647/1995gmcjimmy0157jt.jpg
and here is the shot of the hose at the throttle bracket. i could not remove the stock hose so i used a 3/8 hose coupler to join the old with the new and put a clamp on there to be safe, but i may remove the clamp later.
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1635/1995gmcjimmy0164qd.jpg

herkyhawki

10-19-2005, 01:45 PM

on the cpi 4.3, there are holes in the lower plenum that can allow oil and gas(if cpi is leaking) down into the crankcase.

Please explain how this can be true. If there are holes that would allow oil to drain, the same holes would allow blow-by to flow directly from the crankcase into the plenum. This would short-circuit the PCV system and make it inoperative. If these holes existed they would be a major vacuum leak that would cause additional serious problems. There are no holes in the plenum that connect to the crankcase.

Gasoline from a leaking CPI can reach the crankcase, but it does so through leaky gaskets, or by leaking into the combustion chambers and then leaks past the piston rings to reach the crankcase.

BlazerLT

10-19-2005, 03:46 PM

Please explain how this can be true. If there are holes that would allow oil to drain, the same holes would allow blow-by to flow directly from the crankcase into the plenum. This would short-circuit the PCV system and make it inoperative. If these holes existed they would be a major vacuum leak that would cause additional serious problems. There are no holes in the plenum that connect to the crankcase.

Gasoline from a leaking CPI can reach the crankcase, but it does so through leaky gaskets, or by leaking into the combustion chambers and then leaks past the piston rings to reach the crankcase.

Yes, there are two holes that drain into the two middle cylinder areas of the crankcase.

That is why when the nut kit ruptures you always see a #3 misfire and #3 plug being completely carboned up.

BlazerLT

10-19-2005, 03:49 PM

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1635/1995gmcjimmy0164qd.jpg

You should remove that old PCV hose and run a new line directly to the hose connection right on the intake.

And yes, you can take it off. Remove it when you engine is warm and you will see that you can easily pull it right off.

It is just a rubber connector up there onto the hose nipple.

ZL1power69

10-19-2005, 04:25 PM

You should remove that old PCV hose and run a new line directly to the hose connection right on the intake.

And yes, you can take it off. Remove it when you engine is warm and you will see that you can easily pull it right off.

It is just a rubber connector up there onto the hose nipple.
ok, i'll do that tonight. the system works great. every 30-40 miles the level in the filter goes up. im glad i have that on there now.

BlazerLT

10-19-2005, 04:54 PM

ok, i'll do that tonight. the system works great. every 30-40 miles the level in the filter goes up. im glad i have that on there now.

Just remember that the stock rubber coupler can be removed as well.

When you have properly removed it, you will be attaching the new hose directly onto a metal hose connection.

ZL1power69

10-19-2005, 05:34 PM

i'm on it boss!

herkyhawki

10-19-2005, 10:52 PM

Yes, there are two holes that drain into the two middle cylinder areas of the crankcase.

That is why when the nut kit ruptures you always see a #3 misfire and #3 plug being completely carboned up.

What??? Let's start with simple definition. Crankcase= lower end of the block which houses the crankshaft, (thus the name"crankcase") bearings, connecting rods...

If the leaking fuel reaches the #3 plug as you say, then it is not reaching the crankcase. It is leaking into the #3 combustion chamber, (top of the #3 piston). So your example is additional proof that what I posted is correct. There are no hole between plenum and crankcase.

BlazerLT

10-19-2005, 10:55 PM

What??? Let's start with simple definition. Crankcase= lower end of the block which houses the crankshaft, (thus the name"crankcase") bearings, connecting rods...

If the leaking fuel reaches the #3 plug as you say, then it is not reaching the crankcase. It is leaking into the #3 combustion chamber, (top of the #3 piston). So your example is additional proof that what I posted is correct. There are no hole between plenum and crankcase.

Ok, kewl down man, you are taking this a little too serious and personal. Lower the angst a bit.

It will drain into the two middle cylinders and into the crankcase.

drdd

10-30-2005, 10:15 PM

installed my oil catch can tonite. ten minutes tops.

Got a Campbell-Hausfeld filter from WalMart for $11.97. the two fittings for $1.94. The hose was $1.18 at Advance Auto. I bought 3 ft.

I got a 1997 and so the PCV is about 3 inches from the intake connection. I routed mine up from the valve cover, around the master cylinder, back towards the brake booster, and back over to the intake. Didn't even need any cable ties to secure (although I'll keep an eye on it). The filter sits close around the brake booster. Plenty of clearance around hot rad hoses.

First start up, idle was spot-on (left the filter in).

I like to think my engine is pretty clean so it will be interesting to see how much oil accumulates in how much time ...

Ok, kewl down man, you are taking this a little too serious and personal. Lower the angst a bit.

It will drain into the two middle cylinders and into the crankcase.

BlazerLT

10-30-2005, 10:30 PM

drdd

10-31-2005, 09:39 PM

Well, installed the oil-catch last nite. I only drove 11 miles today!! Lookie how much I caught!

Hey BlazerLT, does your oil-catch have a purge at the bottom "nipple" of the cup? Mine does.

Anyhow, here are pics ... I know you guys out there wish your girlfriend was as dirty as my engine compartment !!

1) routed around the master cylinder and up by the brake booster

http://photobucket.com/albums/b390/drdd/Jimmy/?action=view&current=P1010055.jpg

2) front end drivers-side view ...

http://photobucket.com/albums/b390/drdd/Jimmy/?action=view&current=P1010057.jpg

3) this much after only 11 miles !!

http://photobucket.com/albums/b390/drdd/Jimmy/?action=view&current=P1010058.jpg

still haven't found a need to cable-tie anything down. I'll keep an eye on it ...

Keep us posted WITH PICTURES!

BlazerLT

11-01-2005, 12:53 AM

Yes, there is a purge but you can't use it.

You will have to unscrew it and dump it out like I did every time it gets reasonably full.

JoulesWinfield

11-01-2005, 08:02 AM

If anyone is actually interested in finding out the possible impact of the filter being clogged.
We need to find out the actual SCFM for the PCV.
If anyone knows that we can get the SCFM for the coelesing filter and determine a percentage of plugging that is acceptable.

The fact is that when you are using a filter of any kind particles of debris are trapped in the filter, especially when you are using an oiled filter.
Not just to disagree with LT but I would like to know what the flow is through the PCV before I put anything in front of it.

herkyhawki

11-01-2005, 09:05 AM

Flow rate is probably in the range of 8-10 ACFM (approx 6-8 SCFM).

BlazerLT

11-01-2005, 12:31 PM

The filter won't get clogged.

It is not handling particulate nor is the filter the type to clog with liquids.

JoulesWinfield

11-01-2005, 02:37 PM

Flow rate is probably in the range of 8-10 ACFM (approx 6-8 SCFM).
Thats the flow rate for the PCV?
What is the ID of the tube that is being used?

OH, the other thing is does anyone know the actual vacuum in inches of mercury.

BlazerLT

11-01-2005, 04:50 PM

Thats the flow rate for the PCV?
What is the ID of the tube that is being used?

OH, the other thing is does anyone know the actual vacuum in inches of mercury.

You are getting way to technical about this.

Everyone installs it and has no problems and catches lots of oil and vapor.

Needing all these concrete scientific measurements to take sure a small plunge leads me to believe that you might as well pass on this mod and look into something else..

Everyone here that has installed it has loved it.

JoulesWinfield

11-01-2005, 05:18 PM

@ BlazerLT, I'm merely looking for some data for my own calculations.
I never said anything about anything working or not.

Geeze, stop taking things so personal.

BlazerLT

11-01-2005, 06:21 PM

@ BlazerLT, I'm merely looking for some data for my own calculations.
I never said anything about anything working or not.

Geeze, stop taking things so personal.

Nothing being taken personal here.

The information you are asking can easily be collected by yourself on your engine. The information you require is not the same for all engines and PCV valves from different years.

Brian R.

11-01-2005, 07:42 PM

If it's not personal, why criticize him? What he thinks has nothing to do with what you think. Your opinions have been extremely well documented in this thead. Why repeat them?

BlazerLT

11-01-2005, 07:57 PM

If it's not personal, why criticize him? What he thinks has nothing to do with what you think. Your opinions have been extremely well documented in this thead. Why repeat them?

Of course they are well documented, I created this thread.

I am just saying that the things he is asking is not obtainable through other members seeing different engines and their different PCV systems have different PCV valves, flow rates, and vacuum requirements.

I am sorry if I seemed harsh initially, it wasn't my intention.

Thx :D

Brian R.

11-01-2005, 08:20 PM

No big deal. There are 100 different ways of looking at things.

ZL1power69

11-02-2005, 07:50 AM

You are getting way to technical about this.

Everyone installs it and has no problems and catches lots of oil and vapor.

Needing all these concrete scientific measurements to take sure a small plunge leads me to believe that you might as well pass on this mod and look into something else..

Everyone here that has installed it has loved it.
I have had mine on for appx 300-400 miles and i love it. i've had no problems with it at all. after 30 miles the thing way 1/4 full so i think the $30-$40 for the materials was well spent.

Brian R.

11-02-2005, 10:59 AM

Do not neglect it. It is not going to stay the same for the next 50k miles.

ZL1power69

11-02-2005, 01:11 PM

Do not neglect it. It is not going to stay the same for the next 50k miles.
obviously i check it often. i have emptied it twice already.

BlazerLT

11-02-2005, 02:06 PM

obviously i check it often. i have emptied it twice already.

Yea, I emptied mine as well when I just changed my oil.

Brian R.

11-02-2005, 05:15 PM

obviously i check it often. i have emptied it twice already.

I was not referring to the oil in the trap, I was referring to the filter, obviously. I don't buy the assumption that it will never clog.

drdd

11-02-2005, 10:40 PM

the manufacturer's packaging states that the Average Air Flow (based on 100 psi inlet pressure with 5 psi drop) is 24.8 SCFM. It is a 5 Micron filter (meaning it's designed to filter particles of 5 microns or bigger) and the body material is zinc.

I do not know what the SCFM is for our PVC systems. how can it be measured?

can psi be converted to SCFM or ACFM ?

If anyone is actually interested in finding out the possible impact of the filter being clogged.
We need to find out the actual SCFM for the PCV.
If anyone knows that we can get the SCFM for the coelesing filter and determine a percentage of plugging that is acceptable.

The fact is that when you are using a filter of any kind particles of debris are trapped in the filter, especially when you are using an oiled filter.
Not just to disagree with LT but I would like to know what the flow is through the PCV before I put anything in front of it.

drdd

11-02-2005, 10:46 PM

I completely understand you hesitations, however, since the filter is a dense, zinc (most likely embedded in carbon) filter (similar to your Brita water filter), it will more likely reduce performance in filtering ability, rather than clog. In other words, that nasty oil vapor schtuff will flow through faster, rather than slower (clog). Also, the o-ring seal will probably loose its efficiency before the filter fails.

thoughts?

I was not referring to the oil in the trap, I was referring to the filter, obviously. I don't buy the assumption that it will never clog.

Brian R.

11-02-2005, 11:08 PM

5-micron filter? Reminds me of the old bronze or metallic filters we used to use in the carburetor's gas inlet (Quadrajet? Holley?).

I wish I had one in my hands - However, all I know is that filters clog. It is only a matter of how fast. This is a filter that is being used for a purpose that it was not designed for in a system that was not designed for a filter - Also the system that if flow is restricted, crankcase (oil) contamination increases.

I am much too cautious to do this type of mod without having some way to test if the filter is clogging. Maybe replacing the entire unit (if that's what it takes) every 10k or so for peace of mind. Maybe back-flushing the filter with solvent periodically would be enough. I know that the old gasoline filters I mentioned above could not be cleaned by back-flushing. You had to throw them out once you got fuel starvation.

Maybe nothing is ever needed to keep it free-flowing. You guys will find out.

drdd

11-02-2005, 11:35 PM

yeah, I agree with most of what you're saying ...

the proof may lie in the PCV SCFM rating ...

I would disagree on the point that the filter is being used for a purpose that it was not designed for ...

the manufacturer's description says that it is "... a general purpose filter [that] is designed to remove most liquid and solid particles from the air supply."

it seems to be doing that satisfactorily ...

at the risk of sounding too "unscientific" ... do not all filters clog or otherwise lose their effeciency? of course they do. Is an engine DESIGNED to run on a perfectly clean, brand-new air filter? what if that air-filter is slowly clogging? after 50 miles? after 100 miles?

what about oil? is a system DESIGNED to run on a brand-new filter? should we be sceptical of that system after 50 miles? after 100 miles?

hmmm ... our air intakes were not DESIGNED with a CAI, "cone-type", 360 degree filter in mind ...

more ideas!! keep 'em coming!!

anyone on SCFM ???????????????????????

would the SCFM of (a particular make/year) a PCV system be the "proof" ???

5-micron filter? Reminds me of the old bronze or metallic filters we used to use in the carburetor's gas inlet (Quadrajet? Holley?).

I wish I had one in my hands - However, all I know is that filters clog. It is only a matter of how fast. This is a filter that is being used for a purpose that it was not designed for in a system that was not designed for a filter - Also the system that if flow is restricted, crankcase (oil) contamination increases.

I am much too cautious to do this type of mod without having some way to test if the filter is clogging. Maybe replacing the entire unit (if that's what it takes) every 10k or so for peace of mind. Maybe back-flushing the filter with solvent periodically would be enough. I know that the old gasoline filters I mentioned above could not be cleaned by back-flushing. You had to throw them out once you got fuel starvation.

Maybe nothing is ever needed to keep it free-flowing. You guys will find out.

Brian R.

11-03-2005, 02:07 AM

I would disagree on the point that the filter is being used for a purpose that it was not designed for ...

the manufacturer's description says that it is "... a general purpose filter [that] is designed to remove most liquid and solid particles from the air supply."

it seems to be doing that satisfactorily ...

I would identify a general purpose filter as one not specifically designed for any particular application (purpose is the wrong word). It obviously functions in a high-pressure system ok (compressed air), but I was specifically referring to its use as a filter in the PCV system.

at the risk of sounding too "unscientific" ... do not all filters clog or otherwise lose their effeciency? of course they do. Is an engine DESIGNED to run on a perfectly clean, brand-new air filter? what if that air-filter is slowly clogging? after 50 miles? after 100 miles?

what about oil? is a system DESIGNED to run on a brand-new filter? should we be sceptical of that system after 50 miles? after 100 miles?

I believe they design engines to run on many restrictions of air and oil filters so that there is no significant problem with using them within recommended change intervals (and beyond). Neither of them is a good analogy to this filter.

hmmm ... our air intakes were not DESIGNED with a CAI, "cone-type", 360 degree filter in mind ...

more ideas!! keep 'em coming!!

anyone on SCFM ???????????????????????

would the SCFM of (a particular make/year) a PCV system be the "proof" ???

Let's not get too carried away here...

ZL1power69

11-03-2005, 10:58 AM

I was not referring to the oil in the trap, I was referring to the filter, obviously. I don't buy the assumption that it will never clog.
i check both the oil level and the filter. I have not had a problem yet with the filter cloging.

JoulesWinfield

11-03-2005, 11:56 AM

I was just thinkin that a 5 micron filter designed for 100psi pressure used in a system that is generating probably like 12inHg might be some cause for concern. Like Brian said this system was not designed to utilize a filter.

While BlazerLT has a great mod here, and I applaud his efforts and innovation, I am a little concerned about the flow restriction in a vacuum system.
What is going to happen if that vacuum level is doubled and flow is cut in half?

See, when dealing with vacuum vs compressed air you have totally different variables.

Typically when you restrict air flow in a pressurized system all you get is less flow. When you restrict flow in a vacuum system you could get increased levels of vacuum as well as reduced flow. Dependant on where the restriction is in the system. So the real question is what is going to happen as a result? Otherwise what do "I" need to do to avoid any restriction? Then I dont need to be concerned with the side effects.

I intend on trying this out once I can convince myself that I can do it without any potential damage.

herkyhawki

11-03-2005, 02:19 PM

the manufacturer's packaging states that the Average Air Flow (based on 100 psi inlet pressure with 5 psi drop) is 24.8 SCFM. It is a 5 Micron filter (meaning it's designed to filter particles of 5 microns or bigger) and the body material is zinc.

I do not know what the SCFM is for our PVC systems. how can it be measured?

can psi be converted to SCFM or ACFM ?

PSI is a measure of pressure. ACFM and SCFM are measurements of flow. There is no"conversion" factor to equate pressure to flow.
The PCV flow rate of a seasoned 4.3L is in the range of 8-10 ACFM (approx 6-8 SCFM).

24.8 SCFM( at 100 psi) = 3.2 ACFM. If this filter really has 5 psi pressure drop at 3.2 ACFM then it is too restrictive for use as described in this thread.
Those who leave this filter installed can do a reality check by monitoring the oil deposits in the PCV inlet breather line (fresh air inlet hose from air filter to valve cover) and deposits on the throttle butterfly. As flow is restricted in the PCV valve line, blowby will be forced to flow out the inlet and will then be mixed with intake air.
Use a Q-TIP to swab the inside of the inlet breather line. Oily residue would only be there if you are flowing backwards.

BlazerLT

11-04-2005, 12:39 AM

Brian R.

11-04-2005, 01:15 AM

Brian,

The filter will not clog. There is no way this rigid filter type material will clog with a liquid.

The filter is not like you standard filter and you should go and actually look at these filters before you state they will clog. I have mine here and I KNOW it won't clog.

We aren't dealing with solids here, only GAS, and LIQUIDS.

If there are no solids in your crankcase, why use an oil filter? The crank puts liquid oil from the sump into the air above the crankcase as a mist containing everything that is in the crankcase, including oil and the solids that you need an oil filter for. This mist is part of what you are sucking up in the PCV system. That is where the solids I am talking about are coming from. There may not be much, but you will never get me to believe they don't exist.

@ZL1power69: I don't expect you will have trouble with the filter element after a week or two of use. I'm talking about years and 10s of thousands of miles from now.

Really - You guys may have a fool-proof system for trapping PCV emissions. I am not going to argue about it further because it's only a possibility I'm raising and I have nothing to back up my concerns except what I envision under worse-case usage. I don't think there is anything further that I can add to this discussion.

True experts are constantly being surprised when they see that something totally unexpected happened in a system they have studied for years and thought they knew everything there is to know about that system. You are only fooling yourselves if you think you "know" something, even in a simple system. I am humble enough to know that I don't "know" everything about much of anything of complexity.

Keep an eye on that trap and Good Luck. It's probably bullet-proof as LT says.

BlazerLT

11-04-2005, 11:32 AM

If there are no solids in your crankcase, why use an oil filter? The crank puts liquid oil from the sump into the air above the crankcase as a mist containing everything that is in the crankcase, including oil and the solids that you need an oil filter for. This mist is part of what you are sucking up in the PCV system. That is where the solids I am talking about are coming from. There may not be much, but you will never get me to believe they don't exist.

Comon Brian, comparing this system to your oil filter system is not warranted and is unfounded. Solids don't flow up out of the valve cover.

You are really turning this thread negative.

The PCV system recycles gases and fuel and oil vapor, not solids.

If you had solid flying around you valve cover and in your intake wouldn't your whole intake be full of sand after 100,000 miles?

Cleaning the filter every oil change probably wouldn't hurt but really this arguement has gone to far.

Let's drop it and move onto discussing everyone's experience with the mod instead of constantly negatively talking about all the "possible" worse case scenarios.

Hell, even changing your air filter can be just as damaging as this mod.

herkyhawki

11-04-2005, 11:50 AM

Solids don't flow up out of the valve cover.
The PCV system recycles gases and fuel and oil vapor, not solids.
If you had solid flying around you valve cover and in your intake wouldn't your whole intake be full of sand after 100,000 miles?

The gas flowing within your crankcase and flowing out through PCV does contain solids. Proof of this is the grimy deposits that form inside the engine, inside the valve covers and inside the intake plenum. These deposits contain millions of solid particles.
If your engine did not have these solids deposited throughout, then what were you getting rid of with your AutoRX snake oil??

TonyMazz

11-04-2005, 03:31 PM

Brian R.

11-04-2005, 03:49 PM

Comon Brian, comparing this system to your oil filter system is not warranted and is unfounded. Solids don't flow up out of the valve cover.

It is a valid comparison. Both are exposed to the crankcase contents. They are both involved in getting rid of unwanted contaminants in the oil. Both are filters.

There are solids in the crankcase mist - and I'm not talking about sand. Don't be ridiculous.

I am trying, apparently in vain, to drop this subject by agreeing to disagree - let it alone. Let people make their own decisions. I am willing to drop this, but do not think you will get me to agree with you or to allow you to make such illogical statements without challenge, such as using issues like sand in the valve covers and changing air filters. Exagerations and poor analogies will get you nowhere. It is only an insult to me to see you make such statements, obviously without thinking about what I am saying.

BlazerLT

11-06-2005, 08:32 PM

The gas flowing within your crankcase and flowing out through PCV does contain solids. Proof of this is the grimy deposits that form inside the engine, inside the valve covers and inside the intake plenum. These deposits contain millions of solid particles.
If your engine did not have these solids deposited throughout, then what were you getting rid of with your AutoRX snake oil??

Just looked at my filter will over 1000 miles on it.

Nope, none of these supposed solid plugging it up.

Why are people hypothetically arguing their point when they don't even have it installed or oven looked at the filter. Ask all the guys that have installed it and see if this filter is clogging up with this phantom solids that everyone is bringing up, yet doesn't seem to be in the filter I have?

And thanks for the Snake oil remark cheapshot.

2000blazerls

11-06-2005, 09:02 PM

Geez, it is pretty bad when the mod act that way. I would assume that if they have not installed this upgrade, they should not be preaching of the possible harms it could do.

I will be doing this upgrade myself in the next week or so. Thanks for th einfo LT.

Brian R.

11-06-2005, 11:51 PM

Just looked at my filter will over 1000 miles on it.

Nope, none of these supposed solid plugging it up.

Why are people hypothetically arguing their point when they don't even have it installed or oven looked at the filter. Ask all the guys that have installed it and see if this filter is clogging up with this phantom solids that everyone is bringing up, yet doesn't seem to be in the filter I have?

OK, I've said all I can about possible problems associated with this mod. Good luck.

Brian R.

11-07-2005, 01:15 AM

Geez, it is pretty bad when the mod act that way. I would assume that if they have not installed this upgrade, they should not be preaching of the possible harms it could do.

I don't expect you to understand why I am posting about this. Although I made it quite clear in more than one post earlier in this thread, I don't expect you to read the entire thread to find out all you can about the various opinions associated with this mod. I know, it is a lot of work to read this much at one sitting.

The reason I am posting possible problems associated with this mod is I am and have been educated and employed as a scientist for around 30 years and a mechanic for just as long. I am not posting as a mod, I am posting as a scientist who happens to know a lot about this subject. Not everything, just a lot.

And I don't need a filter in my hand or one installed in my truck to know they plug.

2000blazerls

11-07-2005, 09:05 PM

Hey, why wouldn't one of the work on my Blazer? I want that red on BAD!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8011948135

I mean obviously it is for Ford but wtf is the difference in the two that would make it not work on my Blazer?

drdd

11-07-2005, 09:29 PM

not to challenge the information you posted ... just wanting more info ...

How do you know what the PCV flow rate for a 4.3 is? Is it in the repair manual? Did you test it? If so, how do you test?

I agree with what you said about the breather hose. How does one know when the PCV system is "full" and the breather "comes into play"?

PSI is a measure of pressure. ACFM and SCFM are measurements of flow. There is no"conversion" factor to equate pressure to flow.
The PCV flow rate of a seasoned 4.3L is in the range of 8-10 ACFM (approx 6-8 SCFM).

24.8 SCFM( at 100 psi) = 3.2 ACFM. If this filter really has 5 psi pressure drop at 3.2 ACFM then it is too restrictive for use as described in this thread.
Those who leave this filter installed can do a reality check by monitoring the oil deposits in the PCV inlet breather line (fresh air inlet hose from air filter to valve cover) and deposits on the throttle butterfly. As flow is restricted in the PCV valve line, blowby will be forced to flow out the inlet and will then be mixed with intake air.
Use a Q-TIP to swab the inside of the inlet breather line. Oily residue would only be there if you are flowing backwards.

BlazerLT

11-07-2005, 09:29 PM

Look at the shipping rates.

Here is a cheaper one here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVERSAL-OIL-CATCH-TANK-CAN-RESERVOIR-ALUMINUM-ANY-CAR_W0QQitemZ8012671442QQcategoryZ33556QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OIL-CATCH-RESERVOIR-TANK-CAN-CIVIC-ACCORD-INTEGRA-RSX_W0QQitemZ8012717165QQcategoryZ33556QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Oil-Resevoir-Catch-Can_W0QQitemZ8011101795QQcategoryZ33556QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chrome-Oil-Catch-Can-Tank-Kit-RSX-CRX-Accord-Prelude-R_W0QQitemZ8012728565QQcategoryZ46098QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

As with any of these ebay kits, I would upgrade the hose to fuel pressure grade. The stuff they supply is just too thin.

2000blazerls

11-07-2005, 09:35 PM

Ahh, good finds! Yes, I will upgrade the tubing. Thanks for the info!

Will be going with this one!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVERSAL-OIL-CATCH-TANK-CAN-RESERVOIR-ALUMINUM-ANY-CAR_W0QQitemZ8012671442QQcategoryZ33556QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

BlazerLT

11-07-2005, 09:40 PM

The only thing I dont like about them is how close the two ports are.

When you get it, pack the inside with extremely coarse stainless steel wool and also extend the intake tube inside of the catch can down so the oil won't come in and be instantly sucked out by the oulet if you catch my drift.

2000blazerls

11-07-2005, 09:48 PM

Will do. Just purchased the one thru the link you gave me. Will post pics when done.

Why pack it with stainless steel wool?

I will extend the intake tube as suggested. Good call.

BlazerLT

11-07-2005, 09:51 PM

Will do. Just purchased the one thru the link you gave me. Will post pics when done.

Why pack it with stainless steel wool?

I will extend the intake tube as suggested. Good call.

Just asks as a way to slow the airflow and allow more oil to drop out of suspension.

Also keeps the trapped oil down in the catch can.

herkyhawki

11-08-2005, 09:13 AM

How do you know what the PCV flow rate for a 4.3 is? Is it in the repair manual? Did you test it? If so, how do you test?

I agree with what you said about the breather hose. How does one know when the PCV system is "full" and the breather "comes into play"?

The PCV flow rates will vary alot due to condition of the engine. The flow rates I posted were based on testing I did with a blow-by flow meter like this one.. http://www.j-tecassociates.com/Engine%20inline2005.htm

If you are backflowing out the breather you will only know it if you see oily residue, or have sludge buildup on your intake piping and throttle butterfly. If you are finding oily deposits on your throttle body / butterfly, it is likely coming from the breather tube.

BlazerLT

11-08-2005, 12:08 PM

The PCV flow rates will vary alot due to condition of the engine. The flow rates I posted were based on testing I did with a blow-by flow meter like this one.. http://www.j-tecassociates.com/Engine%20inline2005.htm

If you are backflowing out the breather you will only know it if you see oily residue, or have sludge buildup on your intake piping and throttle butterfly. If you are finding oily deposits on your throttle body / butterfly, it is likely coming from the breather tube.

GM is now using a different PCV valve in some engines to stop excessive oil burning and you can see the difference here.

http://gm-trucks.com/images/Guides/changepcv/pcv_valves.jpg

This PCV valve in a 5.3L V8 puts a lot more restriction in the PCV system but you don't see any problems do you?

drdd

11-23-2005, 12:31 AM

my oil catch seems to be catching less. Any ideas or thoughts?

here's the scoop ...

First thirty miles filled almost half the bottle.

Lately, I did a 500 highway trip and about 2 1/2 weeks of 1 miles short trips to work and back. And the bottle is at about 1/4 full.

No driveability problems or noticeable changes in idle. Weather has gotten colder recently. The filter in the oil catch looks like a light brown, "iced-tea" color ...

maybe the question might be, "why did it catch so much in the first 30 miles?"

GM is now using a different PCV valve in some engines to stop excessive oil burning and you can see the difference here.

http://gm-trucks.com/images/Guides/changepcv/pcv_valves.jpg

This PCV valve in a 5.3L V8 puts a lot more restriction in the PCV system but you don't see any problems do you?

BlazerLT

11-23-2005, 03:21 AM

my oil catch seems to be catching less. Any ideas or thoughts?

here's the scoop ...

First thirty miles filled almost half the bottle.

Lately, I did a 500 highway trip and about 2 1/2 weeks of 1 miles short trips to work and back. And the bottle is at about 1/4 full.

No driveability problems or noticeable changes in idle. Weather has gotten colder recently. The filter in the oil catch looks like a light brown, "iced-tea" color ...

maybe the question might be, "why did it catch so much in the first 30 miles?"

That is completely normal and EVERYONE is seeing that for some reason.

First 100 miles they see it fill up fast and then barely anything for the remainder of the oil change.

The light tea color is normal and the filter is still perfectly clean.

blazee

11-23-2005, 08:31 AM

I've been waiting to reply to this until I had more information on the subject. Reading this thread was the first time that I had heard of doing this. I liked the idea and the theory behind it seemed to have merit, so I tried. I purchased all the parts at AutoZone for $26 and installed it a little over four weeks ago. I noticed that it immediately started collecting stuff, so it seemed to be doing what it was supposed to do. Brian R.'s points made me think about the possible damaging effects the may be caused by the flow restriction. After the first week I had collected about the same amount as shown in the picture that BlazerLT had posted: http://x2.putfile.com/10/28721041441.jpg

I then removed the filter by unscrewing it, and removed the little air deflector as well. I noticed absolutely no change in the engine performance at speed or at idle. I ran it like this for a week and was surprised to see that it was nearly full.

In order to test the results I reinstalled the filter assembly, I ran it like this again for a week and only collected the same amount as I had when the filter was in place before.

I removed the filter assembly again and again it was nearly full in less than a week.

After seeing these results, I've decided to leave the system in place and use it with the filter assembly removed. I recommend all of you that have installed this air/water seperator try it at least for a week without the filter and compare your results to when you had the filter installed, and make your descision on whether or not to use the filter based on your independant results. I expect that most if not all of you will see results similar to what I have seen. The results are obviously due to the flow restriction of the filter.

For those of you that haven't tried it, my suggestion would be to save your money, the amount that you're removing from the sysetm isn't enough to have hurt anything, so overall I'd say that it isn't a very worthwhile mod.

BlazerLT

11-23-2005, 10:37 AM

blazee

11-23-2005, 10:51 AM

Can I see a picture of your system installed into your truck? I would really like to see it installed in your engine bay to see how a person can install it on a 1996+ engine.

So you are saying that amount of oil being consumed of 1000+ miles is not worthwhile? It might be a little now, but multiply that over hundreds of thousands of miles and you can see the potential of removing on heck of a lot of oil from being burned in to your combustion chambers where it doesn't belong. This is the oil that fouls your plugs and you valves over time and PCV system is there for nothing but emmiossions, not performance or economy.

Deriving a negative conclusion based off what you have said is a little confusing.

Are you saying because it didn't extract a quart full of oil every 3000 miles that it is not a worthwhile mod? If it is not worthwhile, then why are you keeping it installed? Seems contradicting. It is a small investment and is is a worthwhile mod or so many people wouldn't be using it.

For the small investment, you sure will be keeping your engine a lot cleaner and the 1000s of people that use them would agree. The aftermarket industry is full of these PCV catch cans and a lot of higher performance vehicles use them liberally to keep their engine performance from being hindered by foul oil vapor.

I drive a little over 1,000 miles a week. With the filter installed I collected about a teaspoon of junk per 1,000 miles. Without the filter I collected about 4 teaspoons of junk per 1,000 miles. That amount would easily be disposed of by the engine.

I'm leaving it on because, I've already paid for the stuff and installed it. I also feel that the system alone (filter not installed) adds enough restriction to cause pollutants to build up in the oil, however, I don't believe this will be much of a factor for me, because I don't push my oil to it's limits, changing it at 6,000 instead of the 10,000+ that it could be pushed to.

BlazerLT

11-23-2005, 11:50 AM

I drive a little over 1,000 miles a week. With the filter installed I collected about a teaspoon of junk per 1,000 miles. Without the filter I collected about 4 teaspoons of junk per 1,000 miles. That amount would easily be disposed of by the engine.

The engine is not meant to "dispose" of oil and therefore there will be drawbacks over time.

1 Teaspoon [US] = 0.0052083 quart [US, liquid] = 1000 miles

x 200 = just over a quart of oil consumed

Multiply that by four with the filter removed and you have over 4 quarts of oil consumed over its lifetime.

If you think any engine can consume 4 quarts and have no negative drawback you are seriously mistaken.

I know these are all approximate numbers but I know I dump over 1 teaspoon per 1000 miles with my truck and the amount of oil being trapped will increase as the engine starts to wear and the rings aren't holding as much compression as before.

The trapped oil I get is well over 3 teaspoons per 1000 miles. Getting that oil out of the system before it is burned and gums up my valves, poisons my cat and fouls my plugs is good new to me. It might be a small amount now, but multiply that over time and it adds up and seeing people put a lot more city mileage on their trucks, this will help it even more.

I'm leaving it on because, I've already paid for the stuff and installed it. I also feel that the system alone (filter not installed) adds enough restriction to cause pollutants to build up in the oil, however, I don't believe this will be much of a factor for me, because I don't push my oil to it's limits, changing it at 6,000 instead of the 10,000+ that it could be pushed to.

And, it doesn't cause pollutants to build up, what you are seeing trapped is fuel impregnated blowby oil vapor that would have been going back into your oil that will now be trapped inside the separator. Also, if there was a restriction, your idle would be suffering. No idle problems, no PCV problems. This system keeps your oil cleaner.

For the price, this is a worthwhile mod. It doesn't cost much and the benefits reaped from having a smoother running engine that is not being doused with oil inside the combustion chamber. :D

LOL, I just don't get it, it is not worthwhile, but I will leave it installed? :lol:

refrigerationdude

11-26-2005, 04:27 AM

Can you do this mod on any engine, such as a '98 Jeep? I have an extra one of those seperator things, bought it for a compressor then ended up buying a new compressor w/one already on it. Also, what is the cause of oil in the throttle body? This occured on a 91 lumina I worked on for someone in the family, went to clean the TB and found a lot of oil running out of it, and also in the air intake hose that attached to the TB. I'm thinking it came from a small hose that attaches to the front valve cover (breather?)

Thanks.

BlazerLT

11-27-2005, 12:34 AM

You can install it on any engine.

It is has a PCV system, you can reap the benefits of this simple mod.

It is really helping me in the winter with condensation control and the water it is separating is pretty amazing.

ZL1power69

11-27-2005, 09:59 PM

when i first installed the system, the contaminants being separated looked like molassis. then after a few hundred miles, the contaminants started to become more and more liquified. idle has smoothed out a bit also.

Rick1488

11-27-2005, 11:17 PM

Where does one find this product??

BlazerLT

11-28-2005, 02:50 AM

all the parts can be found at your local Lowes or Home Depot.

srbianats

11-28-2005, 11:06 PM

Here is how it looks on my 98 Blazer LS 4x4.

http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/1960/img00166ve.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/9075/img00171us.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BlazerLT

11-28-2005, 11:14 PM

Wow, looks like it is catching some good amounts of oil there.

srbianats

11-28-2005, 11:29 PM

I took that picture after replacing the intake gaskets. Drove around about 50 miles worth in 3 trips. Most of that is from driving agressive and highway driving. I put it back on so I can try to keep the intake as clean as possible after the work I just did on it.

drdd

01-10-2006, 02:18 AM

Wow, looks like it is catching some good amounts of oil there.

GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY!!!

(just an old Zappa quote for all you old timers ... !!!)

anyhow, I've had this catch-can on for a while now ...

within the first 50 miles ... lots-o-stuff in the catch can ...

... lately ... I've gone a thousand plus miles (stop-n-go "city miles") and yet, nothing new in the catch can ... NOTHING !!!

then, I recently drove 500+ freeway miles and still ... still .. not ANYTHING in the catch-can !!! WTF !!!!

no driveability problems ... no codes ... no nothing ...

CATCH-CAN = 'TEMPORARY BLOW-BY REFLIEF ????'

Brian R.

01-10-2006, 02:50 AM

Can you tell if the line or filter are plugged or not?

drdd

01-10-2006, 02:54 AM

Can you tell if it's plugged or not?

does'nt seem to be plugged ...

just, no additional stuff ...

DetroitMuscle

01-10-2006, 08:08 AM

Free EPA friendly mod for me, glad I work with airtools constantly.

BlazerLT

01-11-2006, 12:24 AM

Yea, it works wonders and you will be SHOCKED if you saw the light brown condensation it is getting out of my engine lately in this colder weather.

Half full of this stuff every week.

drdd

01-11-2006, 01:04 AM

yea but ...

nothing has been 'caught' in at least over a month ...

doesn't seem to matter wheather it's 'city' or 'highway' miles ...

weather has been 30 - 45 Farenheit lately ...

why don't I get 'half full of this stuff' every week ??

is my engine THAT clean ??

Yea, it works wonders and you will be SHOCKED if you saw the light brown condensation it is getting out of my engine lately in this colder weather.

Half full of this stuff every week.

BlazerLT

01-11-2006, 01:20 AM

Nothing wrong with nothing coming into it.

Often when you change your oil you will see an accumulation until the oil level settles to a point where the crank is not slapping the oil enough to cause the oil to froth and a bit and be carried in the air.

Remember 30f is not that cold at all, the cold temps I am talking about are much colder than that.

You having nothing in the catchcan is a good thing.

DetroitMuscle

01-11-2006, 01:47 PM

BlazerLT

01-11-2006, 01:59 PM

Im putting two on mine, found the crap in the garage for the install today.
I should see alot , the driver side crankcase vent tube was full of nasty nasties, so hopefully this will cure that problem.

Actually only use one, two will not do a better job all will actually hinder the cleaning efficiency if you hinder the vacuum too much. The vacuum is the key to sucking up all that vapour and getting it out of the system.

Install one and only one and if you want, just install one large one if you are worrying about capacity. You can get larger more industrial air/water separators. People do use them in this application.

All I know is that I do love to see the crap in the vial rther than in the valve covers. The milky water/fuel/oil mixtures would be going back into my intake and if you saw the stuff you wouldn't be happy.

DetroitMuscle

01-11-2006, 02:39 PM

Actually only use one, two will not do a better job all will actually honder the cleaning efficiency if you hinder the vacuum too much.

Install one and only one and if you want, just install one large one if you are worrying about capacity. You can get larger more industrial air/water separators. People do use them in this application.

All I know is that I do love to see the crap in the vial rther than in the valve covers. The milky water/fuel/oil mixtures would be going back into my intake and if you saw the stuff you wouldn't be happy.

Ive got two PCV ports, and it wont hinder anything, put 30 psi of air thru it, got 30psi on the gauge on the other end, i gutted mine and only left the diaphram on top.

On the TBI motor there are two of these "PCV" hoses, one to the baseplate of the TBI and one to the slip collar around the top( the one that sucks in oil from the top to make your injectors that awful brown)I wasnt worried about capacity just the fact i have two of these lines and the one that dumps oil from the top is the worst of the two for the engine.

BlazerLT

01-11-2006, 02:53 PM

You sure there is two?

One is for fresh air going into the block and one is the pcv gas return.

ZL1power69

01-11-2006, 03:24 PM

Yea, it works wonders and you will be SHOCKED if you saw the light brown condensation it is getting out of my engine lately in this colder weather.

Half full of this stuff every week.
same here. i love this thing. though one week the stuff thats trapt will be thick and dark brown, the next it will be a runny light brown. im usually dumping it out once every 2 weeks. i try to clean the filter but it looks the same anyway.

BlazerLT

01-11-2006, 03:38 PM

same here. i love this thing. though one week the stuff thats trapt will be thick and dark brown, the next it will be a runny light brown. im usually dumping it out once every 2 weeks. i try to clean the filter but it looks the same anyway.

I have the same results, sometimes just oil, sometimes runny light brown water mixed with fuel and oil.

The colder the temperature, the lighter the trapped slurry.

y2kblazer

01-13-2006, 09:42 PM

I have a 2000 with 95,000 mi. I changed my intake gasket set yesterday (OH, what fun!) I don't run the PCV "filter" setup ....yet. There was a layer of NASTY, oily dirty crud all over the inside of the intake. On the floor of the manifold, the stuff was prob.1/16" deep or more. Used 2 cans of carb cleaner on it.
Would it be safe to assume the build up is from the blow by etc from the PCV valve, which most of would be removed by the filter/ seperator?

BlazerLT

01-14-2006, 01:26 AM

No, that stuff all over everything was probably coolant mixing with the oil.

BlazerLT

10-15-2006, 09:57 PM

Moderators: Please don't lock this thread, I am just checking in with an update.

Ok, just checking in after close to a year with this mod.

Nothing but great things to report.

1.) I have to dump it every 3 months or so.
2.) No restriction at all. Fitler is intact and is flowing perfectly. I just cleaned it and not one thing came out of it. It is stained brown, but not one bit of restriction or plugging has occured during the last year.

System is working great! And I am glad that my engine isn't burning all this oil I am dumping.

Anyone else have anything to report?

ZL1power69

10-16-2006, 01:17 PM

it was performing well on my 95. dumped it every 2-3 months when the fluid level came up to the filter. The filter was a solid brown but still did not affect function. I just sold that truck so im looking to rig one up on my new one. LT, do you have any pics/suggestions on how to rig one up on a 96+ engine? i have an idea of where to place the seperator but don't know where to route the hoses for best flow.

BlazerLT

10-16-2006, 03:32 PM

Very easy, I believe some of the photos in this thread are from 1996+ engines. You just have to work on the driver's side instead of the passengers.

ZL1power69

10-16-2006, 04:02 PM

yea i found the pics. doesn't look to hard, although, id like to have it someplace out of the way instead of above the distributor. another project for another day.

BlazerLT

10-16-2006, 10:13 PM

it is a good thing to get a white plate every once in a while and dump the contents onto it and see if there is any coolant in it.

The coolant will separate and form small orange blobs in the oil as it settles and spreads on the plate.

Will take overnight to happen, but it will come out.

ZL1power69

10-16-2006, 10:32 PM

thats pretty cool, and a good thing to do, especially on the 96+ as an early indicator of lower intake gasket failure

ZL1power69

10-18-2006, 08:20 PM

installed one on my new truck today. ill take pics and post them tomorrow.

herkyhawki

10-19-2006, 02:57 PM

I am just checking in with an update.
.... after close to a year with this mod.
Anyone else have anything to report?

Let's review. A properly functioning PCV system will pull fresh air in through the hose connected to the other valve cover, through the crankcase , then out through the PCV valve and into the intake manifold.
If the pressure balance in the system is upset, one symptom would be reverse flow- out the fresh air inlet tube. You can easily test to see if this condition is present. Pull the hose from the crankcase fresh air inlet, and swab the inside wall of the hose with a long q-tip. This is the hose that goes from the air intake plenum, right after the air filter. Any amount of carbon dust or oil residue in this hose it is proof of reverse flow. As this condition worsens, you see an increase in oily deposits on the throttle butterfly.
Can those of you running this catch can mod do this hose check and let us know if you see anything? Thanks

ZL1power69

10-19-2006, 03:32 PM

i did that test shortly before selling my 95, which i also had a catch can on and saw no signs of reverse flow. i had a catch can on that truck for exactly 1 year.

BlazerLT

10-19-2006, 04:15 PM

Let's review. A properly functioning PCV system will pull fresh air in through the hose connected to the other valve cover, through the crankcase , then out through the PCV valve and into the intake manifold.
If the pressure balance in the system is upset, one symptom would be reverse flow- out the fresh air inlet tube. You can easily test to see if this condition is present. Pull the hose from the crankcase fresh air inlet, and swab the inside wall of the hose with a long q-tip. This is the hose that goes from the air intake plenum, right after the air filter. Any amount of carbon dust or oil residue in this hose it is proof of reverse flow. As this condition worsens, you see an increase in oily deposits on the throttle butterfly.
Can those of you running this catch can mod do this hose check and let us know if you see anything? Thanks

This is not a pressuized system, it is a vacuum system.

Had it for a year and the vacuum coming through the catch can is strong enough to leave a large red welt on your finger from it sucking your skin into the tube.

ZL1power69

10-19-2006, 07:20 PM

here are some pics of the install on my 2000. after about 30-40 miles, its already started trapping stuff, just like my 95 did.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1821/catchcan1nh8.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4508/catchcan2dw5.jpg

BlazerLT

10-19-2006, 11:43 PM

ZL1power69

10-20-2006, 12:05 AM

You might want to arrange it to take a bit out of that longer pice going to the PCV valve.

Loop it so that goes in the area in between the engine and brake booster.

Keep the lines as short as possible for maximum effectiveness.
i tried different lengths of hose and with a shorter hose, i could not get the pcv to sit flat, it would always be on an angle. they way i have it now keeps the valve flat and the hose out of the way and its only about 2-2 1/2ft long, about as long as the piece i used on my 95 to connect the pcv to the seperator. it works fine but i can always try somethin else if it becomes a problem.

BlazerLT

10-20-2006, 01:40 AM

ok.

herkyhawki

10-20-2006, 11:05 AM

i did that test shortly before selling my 95, which i also had a catch can on and saw no signs of reverse flow. i had a catch can on that truck for exactly 1 year.

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to hear it worked well for you. It's nice to read facts instead of opinions.

BlazerBoyLT98

10-20-2006, 05:06 PM

I can't wait to do this. 145K and still trucking!

BlazerLT

10-20-2006, 05:14 PM

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to hear it worked well for you. It's nice to read facts instead of opinions.

I sincerely hope you are not saying I am shelling out my opinion here.

That would be an uncalled for low blow.

herkyhawki

10-20-2006, 08:59 PM

What ?
Sorry for taking an approach that values science and facts over ego's.

BlazerLT

10-20-2006, 09:09 PM

What ?
Sorry for taking an approach that values science and facts over ego's.

Please back off, I never said anything ego related to you or treated you rudely at any time here.

I have no problem with you whatsoever so please can you get rid of your hostility, it is not helping anyone in this thread.

edbrycem

10-22-2006, 01:28 AM

I have a 98 dodge ram, will this mod work on that?

ZL1power69

10-22-2006, 02:24 PM

if you have a pcv system you can do this mod. you just have to determine the best place in your engine bay to mount the seperator and run the hoses.

BlazerLT

10-22-2006, 04:19 PM

Yes, you can install it on any engine with a PCV valve.

Just have the sparator in between the PCV valve and the intake.

herkyhawki

12-01-2006, 03:47 PM

Here's a home-made version. It's in japanese, but the pictures tell the story. It looks like a motorcylce, but you get the idea.
This method will have less pressure drop than the compressed air type filters. You could use one of those 16 ounce aluminum beer bottles that Bud and Miller have out now to do this real cheap, just make sure it is sealed well.
http://www.synapse.ne.jp/s-hara/bandit/blowby.html

comp

12-02-2006, 05:49 AM

Ahh, I want one of those. Excellent.
i agree , need to do :grinyes:

BlazerLT

12-02-2006, 05:54 AM

i agree , need to do :grinyes:

You will be amazed to see how much it holds in the winter for sure that would be going back to your intake.

Crud is disgusting light brown color and loaded with fuel.

spano

03-28-2007, 06:35 PM

ZL1power69

03-29-2007, 12:13 AM

if you did have a gasket starting to fail, that catch can would have probably have some coolant in it. light brown sludge (oil/gas mix) is normal.

BlazerLT

03-29-2007, 01:19 AM

I installed this a few weeks back and I check it daily and dump it weekly. The "goo" I am getting out is a mixture of light brown sludge and gas. Someone earlier had mentioned a "indicator of lower intake gasket failure" and I was wondering if this light brown sludge is that. Or the light brown what I am looking at getting out. Just want to make sure I am not headed for certain disaster without knowing it!

It is just condensation from the cold, it is not a failure.

Pour it out onto a flat white plate and look for blobs of bright orange coolant forming, other than that, it is just fuel, oil, water and contaminants.

spano

03-29-2007, 04:40 PM

Thanks for the info!! .

vtmecheng

03-30-2007, 10:58 AM

BlazerLT:
I am thinking about installing this on my truck but have a quick question for you. What type of catch can did you buy, was it a air/oil or air/moisture type? I was looking online and don't want to buy the wrong thing, not to mention the air/oil ones seem too expensive. On the other hand I am not sure if the air/moisture type are made of a plastic that can handle oil or fuel. Thanks for your time.

BlazerLT

03-30-2007, 12:54 PM

Any air compressor air/water separator will work fine. You can get them at Home Depot cheap. Don't buy it online, buy it local so you can take it back if there is a problem.

You will be amazed when you see how much it catches.

Marcinko

05-11-2007, 04:31 PM

ZL1power69

05-11-2007, 09:46 PM

Hi guys!! I want to do this mod, but I am a little confused on where the the opposite end of the hose connects. My engine looks similiar to the pictures in post #173, 1996 Chevy S-10. I know the PCV side, but can someone post a clear picture of where the opposite end connects?

The reason for the confusion is there is a line that comes out of the passenger side valve cover and pipes right into the box that sits on top of the throttle body. You can see it in post #173. Looking at the pics it looks like it connects there....just wan tto be sure.

Sorry for the silly question, I just want to make sure I am connecting the end up to the right.:screwy: Thanks to everyone in advance for the great forum and help.
one end goes from the pcv to the catch can and the other end attatches to the factory connection on the intake manifold under the plastic intake "hat". whith the stock pcv system still in place, remove the air intake pipe from the hat, then loosen the wing nut on the hat and pull it toward you. you will then see exactly where the other connection is.

Eslhockey92g

06-15-2007, 05:31 PM

Sorry to those who may want this to stop comming up. But after about a year of wanting to do this i went ahead a bought everything last week and had free time to do it. I poped it in started up and everything was fine it idle fine no problems, yet atleast. Im really looking forward to see if there is gunk that gets deposited in there. I have a new jasper motor so it shouldnt be that bad but im sure ill see some somthing. Any way i posted some pics b/c well they never hurt and could help who ever is thinking about it. tell me if you guys see somthing i dont. thanks

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/eslhockey92g/Picture015-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/eslhockey92g/Picture018-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/eslhockey92g/Picture016-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/eslhockey92g/Picture014.jpg

as you can see i ran from the pcv right to the can, than around the abs thing and back to the top of the intake. I need to get longer clamps or i will make a bracket to hold the can better. but its good for now. I wasnt sure if the length of the hose will be a problem i hope not its about 5 feet long and i think that the long curve will be ok.

ZL1power69

06-17-2007, 12:20 PM

shorter the hose length the better, system is more effective that way. where did you mount the catch can( cant really see it in the pics)? i hung the can off the wiring harness near the wiper motor. i ran the line up under the master cylinder, over the brake booster, to the can, then from the can right to the manifold. my pics are in post 113 or somewhere close to that. i may even change to a hose going straight up from the pcv to the can. you really don't need the hose clamps on there. i've had this installed since september when i got my truck and have not had any problems.

Eslhockey92g

06-17-2007, 11:51 PM

im running right from pvc to the can mounted under the brake booster, on that brake line distributor thing. than from there it wraps around the ABS system right in to the manifold. i was trying to see if there was a smoother was to run everything w/o any aggresive kinks but i did feel confertable in some of the positon. Oh an by the way i have accumlated about a 1/4 inch of oil and what not in the bottom of mine already:eek2:

ZL1power69

06-18-2007, 11:30 AM

yea when you first install it you will accumulate alot of stuff but from then on it fills very gradually until you decide to empty it. mine has never really gotten over half full. i might shorten up the hose from the pcv to the can and see if that make the system more effective.

Eslhockey92g

06-18-2007, 12:25 PM

o ok kool that what i was thinking, yeah mine is only about foot and a half tops from the pvc to the can. it goes stright to the can having some slack for engine movement

ZL1power69

06-18-2007, 03:17 PM

o ok kool that what i was thinking, yeah mine is only about foot and a half tops from the pvc to the can. it goes stright to the can having some slack for engine movement
i guess the set up just looks longer in the pics than it really is.

blazee

06-18-2007, 03:27 PM

What happened to BlazerLT? :dunno: What now that he's got a hemi, he thinks he's too good for us lowly Blazer owners? :lol:

ZL1power69

06-18-2007, 03:30 PM

What happened to BlazerLT? :dunno: What now that he's got a hemi, he thinks he's too good for us lowly Blazer owners? :lol:
pretty much :disappoin

blazee

06-18-2007, 03:47 PM

pretty much :disappoin

:disappoin:disappoin

BlazerLT

06-18-2007, 04:50 PM

laxman21

06-20-2007, 10:21 AM

What is the direction of flow?

here are some pics of the install on my 2000. after about 30-40 miles, its already started trapping stuff, just like my 95 did.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1821/catchcan1nh8.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4508/catchcan2dw5.jpg

ZL1power69

06-20-2007, 12:47 PM

the flow is from the pcv to the catch can, then to the intake manifold.

Rick Norwood

06-20-2007, 06:27 PM

Hey now, I had internet ISP problems and it was taking forever for me to access this topic so i had to wait till it was fixed, which just happened 10 minutes ago.

I just haven't been having any problems with the car now so I haven't been coming to this forum much. The 300C forum here is dead compared to the Blazer/s-series.

I have to admit, and this is not a cheap shot to you guys, but I don't miss the truck at all. I don't have any problems anymore and if a small thing come up here and there, it is covered under my warranty.

Don't hate me for likeing my car, my god it is fast.

In my humble opinion, (not that anyone asked for it) In the spirit of purity, I think you should change your picture. :grinyes:

You can keep the name (so we know who you are) but post the new ride. Keeping the same picture is like keeping the Prom picture of the girl you almost married in hopes that some day she'll return.:banghead:

Eslhockey92g

06-20-2007, 08:35 PM

going on a solid week and wow

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/eslhockey92g/Picture004.jpg

this thing does work, Wether it is good or bad, whitch it seems like people will fight on this topic for ever, but im happy

ZL1power69

06-20-2007, 09:11 PM

im not surprized. remember to empty it before the level gets to the filter. after couple weeks it will fill alot slower, unless you have a ton of crap in that engine :lol:. its definately worth the $30 for this mod, it does work.

Eslhockey92g

06-20-2007, 10:41 PM

Id hope theres not alot of crap in it, its a new jasper motor with about 7000 miles on it. I has not even tasted synthetic oil yet, but yea i check my fuild every weekend, so ill keep my eye on it. I wont let it get closer the the filter at all but out of curiosity what would happen?

ZL1power69

06-20-2007, 11:06 PM

if you constantly let the filter get submerged in oil and what not it could clog. if you empty it before then, the filter should not clog. you can try to clean the filter every so often but i personally never had much luck doing so. i forgot you just swapped engines. I believe what you are experiencing is normal. When i first installed it on my old truck, the catch can filled rapidly for a week or so, then it would fill very gradually from then on. Other people have experienced the same thing. On my current truck, after the first week or two, i had to empty it once. Since then it has never gotten passed 1/4 of the way full.

Eslhockey92g

06-21-2007, 06:43 AM

sounds good thanks, yea i hit the filter with some brake clean and it whitened up some so i figure ill be fine as long as i dont let it do

seeknstrike

06-21-2007, 12:38 PM

good info

laxman21

06-22-2007, 07:46 PM

ZL1power69

06-22-2007, 10:41 PM

looks like a nice install. i'm assuming thats a 350. post pics of your blazer's install also.

laxman21

06-22-2007, 11:47 PM

looks like a nice install. i'm assuming thats a 350. post pics of your blazer's install also.

You assume correctly!

I'll get to the blazer in a few weeks.

I did the burb because we are taking a road trip to FLA.

BlazerLT

07-03-2007, 04:02 PM

I put one in my Burb and will do the blazer next

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/therealsundance/DSCF0070.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/therealsundance/DSCF0069-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/therealsundance/DSCF0068-1.jpg

That is a wrong install.

It has to go to the intake, not the oil fill tube.

Your setup will do nothing other than impregnate the oil with fuel and raise crackcase pressures.

All you did was install a pointless loop.

comp

07-03-2007, 04:07 PM

how many have had less oil burn/usage ????

blazee

07-03-2007, 04:11 PM

That is a wrong install.

It has to go to the intake, not the oil fill tube.

Your setup will do nothing other than impregnate the oil with fuel and raise crackcase pressures.

All you did was install a pointless loop.

It looks like he rotated the hard plastic tube from the intake that previously went to the PCV valve, and now the hose connects to that tube. The connection appears to be hidden by the filler pipe, and not connected to the filler pipe itself.

BlazerLT

07-03-2007, 04:12 PM

how many have had less oil burn/usage ????

This isn't meant to stop oil usage, it is just stopping it from gumming up the intake.

BlazerLT

07-03-2007, 04:31 PM

It looks like he rotated the hard plastic tube from the intake that previously went to the PCV valve, and now the hose connects to that tube. The connection appears to be hidden by the filler pipe, and not connected to the filler pipe itself.

Ah, I hope that is the case.

comp

07-03-2007, 04:38 PM

This isn't meant to stop oil usage, it is just stopping it from gumming up the intake.
i'd think it would help some that have blowby problems

Skymac

07-12-2007, 02:20 PM

How often should one change his pcv valce?

comp

07-12-2007, 02:22 PM

How often should one change his pcv valce?
i do it with the air filter

BlazerLT

07-12-2007, 02:32 PM

i do it with the air filter

Or once a year.

cbec1999

02-02-2008, 12:39 AM

No, don't remove your PCV valve. One critical function of the PCV valve is to prevent backfiring flame from getting back into the crankcase. ...

Doesn't electronic timing totally prevent that anyway???

The plug for a particular cylinder can't fire, except for when the intake is closed. Right???

comp

02-02-2008, 02:18 AM

Doesn't electronic timing totally prevent that anyway???

The plug for a particular cylinder can't fire, except for when the intake is closed. Right???
there are duo firing systems

BlazerLT

02-02-2008, 02:26 AM

PCV valves are designed nt to prevent back fire, but to assure PCV vapor flow is in one direction only.

dubc223

02-06-2008, 07:03 PM

Its right that the intake manifold should suck yeah?? Then surely the pcv chamber should blow???????????????

My pcv chamber seems to be sucking:shakehead . Is this a fault??

When my pcv is connected my engine pressurises and whines loudly. The second i disconnect the valve from the chamber the engine goes back to normal

Any help greatly appreciated

BlazerLT

02-06-2008, 09:09 PM

dubc223

02-07-2008, 01:09 PM

Sorry

I own a 1999 Honda integra type r

Since i've had the car it has idled styrangely from 1500rpm to 2000rpm no matter how hot the car is. So i thought "strange"

I decide to have a look around the enigne bay and noticed the pcv valve pipe under the intake manifold was lying loose outside the chamber. I thought great all i need to do is plug it back in. When i plugged it back in and started her up she was idling smoothly at 1000rpm. Roughly 30 seconds into running the car a loud whirring noise appeared and the engine started to pressurise(When i took the oil cap off it wanted to suck my hand in).

I unplugged the pcv valve from the chamber with the car still running and the noise dissapeared and there was no pressure however the idle had obvioulsy gone back to its old self.

I took the pcv valve off.Did all the checks. Its not blocked and it rattles when i shake it.

The intake manifold seems to be sucking which it should do but so does the chamber(i thought the chamber should blow??)

What im wondering is "Does anybody know my problem"????

Thanks

BlazerLT

02-07-2008, 01:14 PM

Completely normal seeing the intake manifold is providing the suction for the pcv system.

I would replace the PCV valve seeing it is probably due for a replacement.

dubc223

02-07-2008, 02:12 PM

I've just taken the pcv valve and pipe off my car again. I can blow through the pipe and pcv valve towards the intake manifold but try and blow the other way(intake to chamber) and i cant get a sinlge breath through.
Is this correct or does it sound like the valve is knackered?

Thanks again

drdd

02-07-2008, 04:22 PM

do you have the valve backwards in the tube?

does the pcv valve rattle when you shake it? it should.

I've just taken the pcv valve and pipe off my car again. I can blow through the pipe and pcv valve towards the intake manifold but try and blow the other way(intake to chamber) and i cant get a sinlge breath through.
Is this correct or does it sound like the valve is knackered?

Thanks again

dubc223

02-07-2008, 04:43 PM

Yes the valve rattles.

The valve is in the direction that....when i blow from the intake end i can only just blow a small amount of air through it.
From the chamber end i can blow cleanly through

????

Thanks

old_master

02-08-2008, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Brian R.
No, don't remove your PCV valve. One critical function of the PCV valve is to prevent backfiring flame from getting back into the crankcase. ...

This is exactly correct. The PCV valve is actually a check valve. It allows a calibrated amount of vacuum through the valve in one direction to ventillate the crankcase. The check valve stops induction, (intake backfire) from entering the crankcase.

Doesn't electronic timing totally prevent that anyway???

The plug for a particular cylinder can't fire, except for when the intake is closed. Right???

If valve timing and ignition timing are correct, the intake and exhaust valves are both closed when the spark plug fires.

dubc223

02-08-2008, 04:21 PM

With both hoses disconnected from the chamber i started the engine and both holes seemed to be sucking in air.
Is this correct

Surely the left hole should blow the gases towards the pcv valve then be sucked from the pcv valve to the manifold????

old_master

02-08-2008, 05:21 PM

The PCV system has two hoses. One end of the fresh air inlet hose is located in the rocker arm cover, usually in a rubber grommet. The opposite end must have a filter, possibly using the air filter, or may have one of its own. The second hose is also located in the rocker arm cover and the PCV valve is located in that hose. The valve usually connects directly to the rocker arm cover in a rubber grommet. The opposite end of that hose is connected to intake manifold vacuum. If the engine is a V6 or V8, the hoses are in opposite rocker arm covers which forces PCV air flow through the crankcase. If it's a 4 cylinder, the hoses are usually located at each end of the rocker arm cover. A divider inside the rocker arm cover forces PCV airflow through the crankcase. The PCV valve has a check valve built into it, that's why it's called a valve. As mentioned in post #236, the valve stops induction pressure, (and sparks/flame if any), from entering the crankcase. The valve allows a calibrated amount of vacuum through it. The connection on the intake manifold draws an equal amount of vacuum from each cylinder so each cylinder receives the same amount of crankcase gasses reducing the possibility of a miss fire.

If the PCV system is operating correctly, there should be a slight negative pressure on the inlet hose while the engine is idling. If the valve is stuck open when induction occurs, the normal slight negative pressure in the crankcase is changed to a positive pressure. When this happens, it pushes gaskets and seals out and creates oil leaks. When idling, if the PCV inlet hose is restricted, the opposite occurs: the normal slight negative pressure increases and sucks gaskets and seals in creating oil leaks. If the PCV valve is stuck closed, or there is no vacuum to the valve, blow by pressure will force the gasses out of the inlet hose and clog the filter with oil vapor, which when cooled, turns back to liquid oil or sludge.

7T9Shark

04-23-2008, 12:13 AM

comp

04-23-2008, 12:33 AM

had a buddy rig his own system ,,yes he has blow-by and oil burning,,,well it has cut his use in half ,,, i was joking with him and told him to pour what was in the trap back in and he said no way,,i said if it doesn't smell like fuel way not it was inside before :grinyes:

BlazerLT

04-23-2008, 02:10 AM

I happened upon this thread, and after reading a few of the entries I have to speak up...This is another of what appears to be an "urban legend" that has gone way out of control. I'm surprised the instigator of this nonsense hasn't also declared an increase in gas mileage of 50%.

If the function of the PCV (Postitive Crankcase Ventilation) system were understood, then you would expect to find an accumulation of oil in the catch jar after a period of time. The function of the PCV system was/is intended to recycle unburned blowby (i.e. oil and fuel vapors) back through the intake system, rather than venting them overboard into the atmosphere. The sole intention is to reduce emissions into the air we breathe.

Therefore, it is entirely normal for any engine to accumulate a measure of oil over a period of time. That amount being totally dependent upon the condition of the cylinders, piston rings, etc.

So, if it makes you feel like you're getting quicker accelleration, better mileage, smoother ride, or better looking, go ahead. It won't hurt anything. But wise up to the fact that the collection of oil by filtering it out of the PCV flow system, is no big thing.:dupe:

So whats your point? That you don't want to do it?

That's fine, 1000s of us do and we see great results and you can actually see what you are removing that won't be coked in the cylinders and intake.

All you are pushing is your opinion without a shred of fact.

No one is using it for no other reason other than to have a cleaner engine WHILE have a pure functioning PCV system.

Your conjecture and insinuations about why we are doing this proven practise is just showing that you have never used it yourself, but are a self-proclaimed professional on the topic.

ericn1300

04-26-2008, 12:42 AM

All you are pushing is your opinion without a shred of fact.

Now that's "the pot calling the kettle black". I have to agree with 7T9Shark as I haven't seen any empirical evidence anywhere in this thread, just anecdotal testimony. Show me the data.

BlazerLT

04-26-2008, 03:11 AM

Now that's "the pot calling the kettle black". I have to agree with 7T9Shark as I haven't seen any empirical evidence anywhere in this thread, just anecdotal testimony. Show me the data.

And what data did we promise to provide you? Did we claim anything numerical would be improved other than a cleaner engine that isn't reburning raw oil?

Now where would I derive a number from a volume of trapped oil that was trapped in the catch-can.

Is that not proof? Is that not what was the reason of this thread is?

So that is my fact, and it is a fact that 1000s of people use daily.

Take a look here.

http://www.google.com/search?q=pcv+catch+can&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Guess they are all idiots and you are the true superior person that has the info to discredit people liking the fact that they are removing oil from the PCV line.

Thanks for your contribution, it was very informative and full of discrediting proof.