Our Community is 705,000 Strong. Join Us.


Passlock System


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

JAW9
09-07-2005, 01:03 PM
The anti theft in my 2001 Malibu is acting up more than usual lately, i.e having to wait 10-15mins for the system to reset itself. At first it happened every few months or so but now it has happened 3 or 4 times in the last 3 weeks. I am thinking of disabling it. Is it possible and has anyone done it? If so, are there any tricks or tips at disabling it and if it is disabled will if effect anything else with the car?
Any advice is very much appreciated.

bcopeland
09-08-2005, 09:20 AM
on the 99, there is a toggle switch under the dash near the brake pedal.

lmarie77
12-28-2005, 12:07 PM
cac@chevrolet.com

Send everybody who has a Malibu passlock issue this email address. Complain, complain, complain - that's what it will take to get these bastards recalled.
I've been emailing for 2 days - and they've danced around the issue at hands - I swear these customer service "managers" are politicians.

L Marie

RahX
12-28-2005, 06:16 PM
on the 99, there is a toggle switch under the dash near the brake pedal.

someone must have added it on yours, none of the anti-theft systems im looking at on malibu's come with a toggle switch unless its an aftermarket system.

raycorri
12-30-2005, 08:55 PM
The anti theft in my 2001 Malibu is acting up more than usual lately, i.e having to wait 10-15mins for the system to reset itself. At first it happened every few months or so but now it has happened 3 or 4 times in the last 3 weeks. I am thinking of disabling it. Is it possible and has anyone done it? If so, are there any tricks or tips at disabling it and if it is disabled will if effect anything else with the car?
Any advice is very much appreciated.

Yeah, I'm not so sure that the toggle switch is original equipment. As for disabling Passlock 1 or 2, it can be done fairly easily. I did this to my 2002 Olds Alero with Passlock 2. Yours is apparently Passlock 2 also according to these photos that follow. You don't have to install a toggle switch, but I would suggest it in case you go to a dealership for service and they need the Passlock re-enabled. I'm sure they will try to tell you that you shouldn't do this. You can just print out this article to educate them on their own system. The BCM is already programmed to go into "fail-enable" mode when the key reference circuit (yellow passlock wire) is broken (cut) while the engine is running. That's the key ---- while the engine is running. The security/anti-theft light will come on and stay on until the circuit is repaired. Your Passlock is now disabled. Just don't repair the circuit (reconnect the wire) unless absolutely necessary. I have read where others just tape up both ends of the cut yellow wire and leave it that way. This probably works fine, but I like the idea of being able to repair the circuit by the flip of a switch. (Just in case.)

This is the MOTOR AGE article describing "fail-enable" mode:
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf
page 3, If the correct key is in the cylinder and that circuit
fails while the engine is running, this is considered a
malfunction, not a theft attempt. The “Security” light
may turn on to warn of a system malfunction, but even if
it doesn’t, a key recognition circuit failure with the proper
key in the lock will cause the TDM to enter what GM
calls a “fail-enable” mode. Essentially, the theft-deterrent
system goes offline and the engine will start and run
with any key that turns the lock.

Here are 2001 Malibu photos to help you get to the Yellow Passlock 2 wire to cut it while the engine is running. Read the directions below each photo. By the looks of these photos, you should probably go ahead and start your car with your key (no keyring or keys attached) so you won't have to figure out how to start it with the Switch in an unsecure position later in the process.

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=761&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=762&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=765&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=766&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=768&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=769&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=772&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=775&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=777&link=BULLDOG

That yellow wire is the one to clip while the car is running! Incidentally, Malibus, Grand AMs and Aleros are all having the same Passlock problems. Coincidentally, we all have the same part # for the Ignition Lock Cylinder. A Passlock sensor is built into this cylinder. If this sensor goes bad, you have to replace the entire Ignition Lock Cylinder. GM is making a killing and so are the dealerships. I'm not knocking the Certified Technicians, they are just doing what they are trained to do. How can anyone deny that this part is defective? If you are tired of having to wait to start the car that you worked so hard to buy with your own money, you should be able to disable the Passlock if you want to. This is just one way to do it. Here is the Ignition Lock Cylinder part # and I hope this disablement will really help some of you.
1999 - 2004 Alero
1997 - 2003 Malibu
1999 - 2004 Grand Am

The GM part number is 12458191.

kees45
12-31-2005, 05:28 PM
Will this work for a 2002 Impala as well?

raycorri
12-31-2005, 08:30 PM
Will this work for a 2002 Impala as well?

Yeah, you have Passlock 2 also. If you are afraid to cut the Yellow wire, just unplug the plug with the 3 Passlock wires on top of the ignition lock cylinder while the car is running and it will provide the same end result. This way you can see it work and feel a little more at ease before you cut the yellow wire to install a toggle. It's just sometimes a little harder to get to the plug on some vehicles. Here is a suggestion that I found on how to get to your wires.

NOTE *1 To get to the IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS, you MUST remove the RADIO without unplugging the radio. Make sure you catch ALL ignition wires at the back of the ignition switch.

This shouldn't take very long at all! By the way, I am just getting basic info at
http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/ and clicking on Vehicle Wiring Diagrams---then select your make---then select model and year to get hints on how to access the Ignition Lock Cylinders. It also tells you which anti-theft system you have for your particular car. Welcome to the Anti-Passlock Club!

raycorri
12-31-2005, 11:30 PM
I keep finding more info on this way to Disable the Passlock utilizing a switch. The following bulletin is from GM on this exact modification. We are just accessing the "Yellow Passlock Data Wire" at a different point than they are on the trucks. Interesting, huh? Maybe this is the same modification that bcopeland had on his 99 Malibu?
http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf

kees45
01-02-2006, 03:00 PM
Went thu the procedure of cutting the yellow wire. Added an extension to it with a toggle switch. Car starts. But message center shows security lock message on all the time because toggle switch is in off position. Am a bit hesitant to switch toggle switch to on as that put system in precut condition. Do I start the car with the toggle switch off? And then switch it on? Any suggestions how to work it? Or is the situation now that the security lock light will or has to be be on all the time?
In the meantime I thank you for your responses. It certainly did help a lot. Happy New Year.
Kees

raycorri
01-02-2006, 03:38 PM
Went thu the procedure of cutting the yellow wire. Added an extension to it with a toggle switch. Car starts. But message center shows security lock message on all the time because toggle switch is in off position. Am a bit hesitant to switch toggle switch to on as that put system in precut condition. Do I start the car with the toggle switch off? And then switch it on? Any suggestions how to work it? Or is the situation now that the security lock light will or has to be be on all the time?
In the meantime I thank you for your responses. It certainly did help a lot. Happy New Year.
Kees

Wow! Coincidence that I just logged on. It looks like you did everything right. Yes, the Security Lock message will always be on while the Passlock is disabled. I would suggest that you test your system while the car is running. Just flip the switch to on while the car is running to put Passlock system in precut condition as you said. Your system should reset and clear out the Security lock message.(Passlock Enabled) Once this works, go ahead and break the circuit again by flipping the toggle in the opposite direction. Security message should again illuminate.(Passlock Disabled) You can now shut your car off and know that it will start every time. Please post back soon to let me know that this worked for you. Now that I have my Passlock Disabled, I just leave the toggle in that position and never touch it. My car cranks every time with no worries of the dreaded 10 minute wait. Incidentally, how long did the whole modification take you? Thanks for posting back, Ray

kees45
01-02-2006, 04:17 PM
Wow! Coincidence that I just logged on. It looks like you did everything right. Yes, the Security Lock message will always be on while the Passlock is disabled. I would suggest that you test your system while the car is running. Just flip the switch to on while the car is running to put Passlock system in precut condition as you said. Your system should reset and clear out the Security lock message.(Passlock Enabled) Once this works, go ahead and break the circuit again by flipping the toggle in the opposite direction. Security message should again illuminate.(Passlock Disabled) You can now shut your car off and know that it will start every time. Please post back soon to let me know that this worked for you. Now that I have my Passlock Disabled, I just leave the toggle in that position and never touch it. My car cranks every time with no worries of the dreaded 10 minute wait. Incidentally, how long did the whole modification take you? Thanks for posting back, Ray

Hey, Thanks for being so quick. It took me about 2 hours on the impala. Most of the work is getting the dashboard apart as I had no idea where the screws and clips are that hold it all together. I also suggest to write down the sequence of taking it apart as that will make it easier to put it all back together again. Once that was done it was a bit akward as the tranny lever is in the way so you have to put that into its lowest position. Which means you have to start the car. Also Just use the key, nothing on it. But once that is done all you need to do is take the 2 bolts that hold the ignition key. No need to take the radio or panle for the heat/airco out.You then have enough room on the left next to the instrument panel to push the ignition switch back and to the left. That exposes just enough of the 3 wires and just enough room to cut the yellow wire. When cutting make sure you allow enough so you are able to solder 2 wires to the cut yellow. Lots of room to bring the added wire down and install a toggle. I am going to drive/stop/start the engine for the rest of the afternoon. Tomorrow I am away for the whole day so I will report back as soon as possible. Probably Wednesday.
Again, thanks for all your unput.
Kees

raycorri
01-02-2006, 05:32 PM
Wow, it appears that accessing your 3 Passlock wires was a bit more involved than what I had to do. On a lot of these cars, you can simply remove the radio and reach in to the left to grab the 3 Passlock wires to perform the modification. Regardless, I think you will be happy with the results of your effort.
Later, Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

MT-2500
01-02-2006, 06:55 PM
Ok
Fellows be carefull out there.
I ran this by an double checked it with a GM master anti theft tech.
And here is the hole ball of wax on it.

quote
there is no such thing as Passlock 1 or 2, unless you are talking about PassKey, which has 1,2, or 3....

As for cutting a wire while the vehicle is running(FIRST YOU HAVE TO GET IT RUNNING IF IT'S IN A NO START MODE), this might work, IT MAY GO INTO FAILSAFE MODE, but I'm not into cutting wires to make something work....and guess what, if your battery dies, needs to be replaced, or is disconnected for any reason, then you are screwed, because then it will NEVER START...

As stated there if your battery goes dead or is unpluged you may have to replace the pcm and anti theft module.

And a gm anti system is not the only system that can have total shut down from anti theft system being jumped or unpluged. Or a dead battery problem.
MT :grinyes: :lol: :lol2: :grinyes:

troy1
01-02-2006, 08:36 PM
best to put the switch in there like the TSB says instead of cutting the wire

raycorri
01-02-2006, 09:17 PM
Ok
Fellows be carefull out there.
I ran this by an double checked it with a GM master anti theft tech.
And here is the hole ball of wax on it.

quote
there is no such thing as Passlock 1 or 2, unless you are talking about PassKey, which has 1,2, or 3....

MT :grinyes: :lol: :lol2: :grinyes:

I see your point and certainly understand your concern. The initial question was something to the effect of, "Is it possible and has anyone done it?" This bulletin from GM clearly describes the procedure that I used (or should have used) on my vehicle and addresses all of the concerns that you mentioned.(ie.-battery disconnect or dead battery.)(Incidentally, I disconnected my battery for a day and reconnected it. Then I placed my toggle switch in the Enable mode to put the system back on as in this bulletin. The car started up fine. I then disabled the Passlock again with no problems.) Please print out this document and have your friend read it. Maybe he can shed some further light on it.
http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf

I agree with you that you need to get the vehicle running without any Security light flashing or staying on before you start this modification. Once the "Hall Effect Sensor" goes completely bad in the Ignition Lock Cylinder it's too late to try this method. You will just have to replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder before you can get the car to start again. Those of us that have had numerous failures with the Ignition Lock Cylinder are just too fed up and too broke to not try something else.

As for the term Passlock, I don't know what to tell you. The above document from GM and my 2002 Alero Owner's Manual refer to it as Passlock. This Motor Age article gives a brief history of GM's anti-theft systems also:

http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf

The Vehicle Anti Theft System (VATS) was first installed on the 1985 Corvette. The Personal Anti-theft Security
System (PASSkey) replaced VATS in 1988, and while there
are some differences, VATS and Passkey I and II all work
the same way. There is no radio communication involved;
the system merely looks for the ignition key’s unique electronic
signature. Passkey III and the newer Passlock systems
were introduced in 1998, but the earlier systems
weren’t completely phased out until 2003.

Here's another document explaining the Passlock sensors:

Document ID# 468000
1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass

Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Description

Important
Due to component variability, the vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system must have the learn procedure performed regardless, if the vehicle starts on the first ignition cycle after a VTD repair.

All codes in the theft deterrent module must be cleared for a relearn.

The vehicle theft deterrent system is designed in order to prevent vehicle theft by disabling the fuel injectors unless the lock cylinder is correctly engaged by a mechanical key. The theft deterrent system uses the following 4 components for theft prevention:

The lock cylinder
The ignition switch
The body control module (BCM)
The powertrain control module (PCM)
When starting the engine, the PCM searches for a password from the BCM through the Class 2 serial data circuit. If the password is not recognized or not present, the PCM will disable the engine. Two modes of tamper detection are provided:

No password received The engine will start and stall quickly. SECURITY telltale will flash on the instrument panel cluster (IPC) and then stay ON steady.
Incorrect or disable password received (More than 3 invalid passwords are received) The engine is disabled for at least 10 minutes and the SECURITY telltale will illuminate solid on the IPC during the 10 minutes.
After the vehicle has passed theft detection, the PCM will continue normal operation.

Ignition Switch
The mechanical key and lock cylinder is located in the instrument panel assembly. The electrical switching portion of the assembly is separate from the key and lock cylinder. Both of the components are synchronized and work in conjunction through the action of the actuator rod assembly.

Passlock™ Lock Cylinder
The Passlock™ lock cylinder is a locking cylinder that turns a rotating magnet past a stationary hall effect sensor. This action creates the Passlock™ cylinder data. The Passlock™ cylinder data is sent to the body control module (BCM). The Passlock™ lock cylinder is interfaced with the BCM via a 3-wire connection:

Power
Ground
Data

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is located on the lower left side of the instrument panel.

The PCM communicates with the body control module (BCM) via serial data over the class 2 serial data bus, CKT 1807. When the BCM determines a passed theft condition, the BCM sends a coded password to the PCM. When the PCM receives the correct password, the PCM enables the fuel injection system, allowing the vehicle to operate correctly. The PCM may allow the car to start and quickly stall during a failed theft condition.

The following conditions may cause the PCM to enter a tamper mode:

A bad timing cycle
An incorrect password
If the BCM does not receive a password within a preset time window, the BCM will enter a short tamper mode. During this mode, the PCM will not allow the car to operate for 4 seconds.

If the password is incorrect, the PCM will enter the long tamper mode. In the long tamper mode, the following actions will occur:

The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will flash.
The fuel injectors will be shut off for approximately 10 minutes.
Although the vehicle may start, the engine will quickly stall due to a fuel cut-off.

In the event of an open in the serial data communication between the BCM and the PCM, the following actions occur:

The PCM will become fail-enabled if the car has already passed theft for that ignition cycle (i.e. the engine is running).
The PCM may set the diagnostic trouble codes (DTC).
The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will light continuously.
The PCM will become fail-enabled for future ignition cycles.
If a failure occurs in serial data before the ignition cycle, while the PCM is not fail-enabled, the PCM will never receive a valid password in order to enable the continued use of the fuel injectors.


All of that to say this...... This is really a great forum. You are able to question the information that I provided because you really care that others are hearing all sides of the discussion. I question your friend's information too. Has he seen the Motor Age article or the GM UIB(Upfitter Integration Bulletin) that I have referred to? A title doesn't necessarily make him right. That's not an attack on him by any means. You know none of this would be necessary if GM would just stand up and take responsibility for a defect. I'm not willing to spend another penny on this problem. I started posting this "one way of doing it" because I have rarely seen other posts actually give a different answer other than "take it to the GM dealership." I questioned a few dealerships and they "will not disable Passlock or Passkey" for anyone.(If they told us how to do it ourselves they would have to kill us.) So this means they "will replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder" for a nominal fee. Honestly, I'm just trying to help other desperate people out there. You know what they say, "Desperate people do desperate things." I think this modification works great!


Just one more thing. Why is it that we never see any posts on this forum of people who are happy with their Passlock or Passkey. You know, like, "Passlock really saved my car from being ripped off!" Hooray! I'm not ready to relinquish my membership in The Anti-Passlock Club just yet.

Ray :smokin:

raycorri
01-02-2006, 09:34 PM
best to put the switch in there like the TSB says instead of cutting the wire

I assume you mean cutting the wire while the engine is running? Yeah, I had already made my modification before I found the UIB(Upfitter Integration Bulletin). It would have saved me some gas $. It's nice to have this bulletin as confirmation. I also wired my toggle backwards from the way it suggests. (On for Passlock Enable---Off for Passlock Disable.) Either way, it works.

Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

MT-2500
01-03-2006, 02:56 PM
I see your point and certainly understand your concern. The initial question was something to the effect of, "Is it possible and has anyone done it?" This bulletin from GM clearly describes the procedure that I used (or should have used) on my vehicle and addresses all of the concerns that you mentioned.(ie.-battery disconnect or dead battery.)(Incidentally, I disconnected my battery for a day and reconnected it. Then I placed my toggle switch in the Enable mode to put the system back on as in this bulletin. The car started up fine. I then disabled the Passlock again with no problems.) Please print out this document and have your friend read it. Maybe he can shed some further light on it.
http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf

I agree with you that you need to get the vehicle running without any Security light flashing or staying on before you start this modification. Once the "Hall Effect Sensor" goes completely bad in the Ignition Lock Cylinder it's too late to try this method. You will just have to replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder before you can get the car to start again. Those of us that have had numerous failures with the Ignition Lock Cylinder are just too fed up and too broke to not try something else.

As for the term Passlock, I don't know what to tell you. The above document from GM and my 2002 Alero Owner's Manual refer to it as Passlock. This Motor Age article gives a brief history of GM's anti-theft systems also:

http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf

The Vehicle Anti Theft System (VATS) was first installed on the 1985 Corvette. The Personal Anti-theft Security
System (PASSkey) replaced VATS in 1988, and while there
are some differences, VATS and Passkey I and II all work
the same way. There is no radio communication involved;
the system merely looks for the ignition key’s unique electronic
signature. Passkey III and the newer Passlock systems
were introduced in 1998, but the earlier systems
weren’t completely phased out until 2003.

Here's another document explaining the Passlock sensors:

Document ID# 468000
1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass

Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Description

Important
Due to component variability, the vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system must have the learn procedure performed regardless, if the vehicle starts on the first ignition cycle after a VTD repair.

All codes in the theft deterrent module must be cleared for a relearn.

The vehicle theft deterrent system is designed in order to prevent vehicle theft by disabling the fuel injectors unless the lock cylinder is correctly engaged by a mechanical key. The theft deterrent system uses the following 4 components for theft prevention:

The lock cylinder
The ignition switch
The body control module (BCM)
The powertrain control module (PCM)
When starting the engine, the PCM searches for a password from the BCM through the Class 2 serial data circuit. If the password is not recognized or not present, the PCM will disable the engine. Two modes of tamper detection are provided:

No password received The engine will start and stall quickly. SECURITY telltale will flash on the instrument panel cluster (IPC) and then stay ON steady.
Incorrect or disable password received (More than 3 invalid passwords are received) The engine is disabled for at least 10 minutes and the SECURITY telltale will illuminate solid on the IPC during the 10 minutes.
After the vehicle has passed theft detection, the PCM will continue normal operation.

Ignition Switch
The mechanical key and lock cylinder is located in the instrument panel assembly. The electrical switching portion of the assembly is separate from the key and lock cylinder. Both of the components are synchronized and work in conjunction through the action of the actuator rod assembly.

Passlock™ Lock Cylinder
The Passlock™ lock cylinder is a locking cylinder that turns a rotating magnet past a stationary hall effect sensor. This action creates the Passlock™ cylinder data. The Passlock™ cylinder data is sent to the body control module (BCM). The Passlock™ lock cylinder is interfaced with the BCM via a 3-wire connection:

Power
Ground
Data

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is located on the lower left side of the instrument panel.

The PCM communicates with the body control module (BCM) via serial data over the class 2 serial data bus, CKT 1807. When the BCM determines a passed theft condition, the BCM sends a coded password to the PCM. When the PCM receives the correct password, the PCM enables the fuel injection system, allowing the vehicle to operate correctly. The PCM may allow the car to start and quickly stall during a failed theft condition.

The following conditions may cause the PCM to enter a tamper mode:

A bad timing cycle
An incorrect password
If the BCM does not receive a password within a preset time window, the BCM will enter a short tamper mode. During this mode, the PCM will not allow the car to operate for 4 seconds.

If the password is incorrect, the PCM will enter the long tamper mode. In the long tamper mode, the following actions will occur:

The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will flash.
The fuel injectors will be shut off for approximately 10 minutes.
Although the vehicle may start, the engine will quickly stall due to a fuel cut-off.

In the event of an open in the serial data communication between the BCM and the PCM, the following actions occur:

The PCM will become fail-enabled if the car has already passed theft for that ignition cycle (i.e. the engine is running).
The PCM may set the diagnostic trouble codes (DTC).
The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will light continuously.
The PCM will become fail-enabled for future ignition cycles.
If a failure occurs in serial data before the ignition cycle, while the PCM is not fail-enabled, the PCM will never receive a valid password in order to enable the continued use of the fuel injectors.


All of that to say this...... This is really a great forum. You are able to question the information that I provided because you really care that others are hearing all sides of the discussion. I question your friend's information too. Has he seen the Motor Age article or the TSB that I have referred to? A title doesn't necessarily make him right. That's not an attack on him by any means. You know none of this would be necessary if GM would just stand up and take responsibility for a defect. I'm not willing to spend another penny on this problem. I started posting this "one way of doing it" because I have rarely seen other posts actually give a different answer other than "take it to the GM dealership." I questioned a few dealerships and they "will not disable Passlock or Passkey" for anyone.(If they told us how to do it ourselves they would have to kill us.) So this means they "will replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder" for a nominal fee. Honestly, I'm just trying to help other desperate people out there. You know what they say, "Desperate people do desperate things." I think this modification works great!


Just one more thing. Why is it that we never see any posts on this forum of people who are happy with their Passlock or Passkey. You know, like, "Passlock really saved my car from being ripped off!" Hooray! I'm not ready to relinquish my membership in The Anti-Passlock Club just yet.

Ray :smokin:

My advise is still proceed with caution.
Gm uses 4-5 different anti theft systems depending on year and make and model. The wrong disconnect or jump can shut down or wipe out the pcm or body module or theft module.
I know it takes money to fix the system if it gives problems and the dealer do not help any. They to often just replace everything.
And a lot of people just want to bypass the hole sysem.
When a lot of trouble is just a simple dirty connection or loose wire or
pcm or body module or theft module or what ever.
When a system acts up it should be tested out first thing. To find out for sure what it is.
The wire disconnect you showed us may fix the problem on some but it depends on the problem or what it is.
I can not see it being a fix all for all modles and systems.

On that GM Upfitter integeration Truck Group UI bulletin # 26 is it from GM or a GM factory bulletion or from other source?
I can not find it in any of my repair programs.
MT

SpinnerCee
01-03-2006, 04:42 PM
I have seen the same no-start on a 2001 Impala -- I actually called the dealer, and they told me this "procedure" over the phone:

Turn Key to on position, wait 5 minutes, turn key to start.... Vrooooom!

It worked! I told the dealer, and he suggested I bring the thing in anyway because it wil probably "happen again"

This was the first time, so we'll wait and see...

Anyways, thanks for the info in this thread, it really helped me.... :)

MT-2500
01-03-2006, 06:44 PM
SpinnerCee
It was giving you a warning.
You need to get it tested out.
You were luckie and got it to override and start.
The next time it may or not overide.
But again proceed with caution on trying to bypass or fix it.
The Impala 01 is a long way from a 01 malibu that only has one theft system.
The 01 Impala has 3 different anti theft systems.
Passlock TM system
Content Theft Deterrent CTD system
Vehicle Theft Deterent VTD system
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/01impala.pdf
First step in repair or check out is to get it on a body capable scanner and check for codes past and present.
And as soon after it acts up as you can get it checked.
Good Luck MT

MT-2500
01-03-2006, 07:31 PM
SpinnerCee and 00-05 Impala Monte Carlo owners.
Here is A GM tsb that may help on anti theft no start.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/Impala%20.pdf
MT

MT-2500
01-03-2006, 07:39 PM
SpinnerCee and 00-05 Impala Monte Carlo owners.
Here is A GM tsb that may help on anti theft no start.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/Impala%20.pdf
MT

raycorri
01-05-2006, 06:21 PM
I can not see it being a fix all for all modles and systems.

On that GM Upfitter integeration Truck Group UI bulletin # 26 is it from GM or a GM factory bulletion or from other source?
I can not find it in any of my repair programs.
MT

Hey MT, I concede after reading your info on the Impala.(Maybe not a fix for all models and systems.) They don't have a bare bones ride like mine.(2002 Alero-no key fob or Content Theft Deterrent CTD system.) I am still very interested in hearing back from kees45 on his modification results. (To see if he is having any adverse effects.) I am not privy to most TSBs that you might be able to access. I find whatever I can by Googling. I just happened to put in the right keywords to find that GM Upfitter bulletin. This is what I could find as the source:

Technical Bulletins

The Technical Bulletin Process informs manufacturers of any product changes or issues that may affect their designs. The need for a bulletin may come from:
a. A GM Vehicle Engineering source such as a Mock-up review, where a product change requires an upfitter design or manufacturing modification;

b. One or more upfitters who have expressed repetitive concerns or experienced a frequent
vehicle difficulty.
The investigation process for a bulletin is similar to a Hotline request in that an Upfitter Integration Vehicle Engineer is assigned the responsibility of researching the situation; however, a question or concern only becomes a bulletin when it is judged to affect all upfitters or an entire vehicle platform and any resolution needs to be communicated to every concerned party. Engineering drawings that illustrate the issues and highlight corrective action measures or possible redesigns are gathered, the Bulletin goes through a review and approval process by all affected areas within GM Vehicle Engineering, and is then published and distributed to the entire upfitter community.

So, I guess that bulletin came from GM Vehicle Engineering.(Dated 4/22/99) The upfitter community appears to deal mostly with GM Fleet Trucks and Vans.

Anyhow, Thanks for your continued input!
Ray
Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

raycorri
01-06-2006, 08:28 PM
kees45 has replied back at this thread!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=500103

Ray

MT-2500
01-06-2006, 10:05 PM
Raycorri
Thank for posting back with the info on the upfitters bulletin.
It would be nice and a lot simpler if the manfactures would make the anti theft systems where you could turn them off or disable them if they give problems or if a person does not want them.
Good luck MT

raycorri
01-07-2006, 05:43 AM
Raycorri
Thank for posting back with the info on the upfitters bulletin.
It would be nice and a lot simpler if the manfactures would make the anti theft systems where you could turn them off or disable them if they give problems or if a person does not want them.
Good luck MT

I just thought that this thread has gotten so involved that I might as well put this info out there as well for people to read. Here's all that you ever wanted to know (and a whole lot that you didn't want to know) about Passlock and Passkey/VATS and which keys use resistors and why sometimes Glove Box, Trunk, or Door Keys will or will not start the car. Have fun wading through this stuff!

http://www.insurorsservicebureau.co...ical/ISB_QA.pdf

PASSLOCK I, NEW GM SECURITY SYSTEM(Page4)
http://www.techtrainproductions.com/bulletin/ttb_14.pdf

GM TEN-CUT BITTING: A STUDY IN CONFUSION (Page 7)
http://www.techtrainproductions.com/bulletin/ttb_15.pdf

Ray - Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

maliblue98
01-19-2006, 11:38 PM
I have been struggling with this Passlock II (Malibu 1998) issue for the past year, and it seems to be getting worse. I am thinking of going with raycorri's method as I don't care to have the "sercurity" or having the theft-light on while driving. My only concern is the possible battery issue MT-2500 brought up, I am not entirely sure if this was concluded to be irrelavant or not. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I am hoping to save some time, money and hassle of having a dealer fix this issue. If anyone knows a knowledgable and reasonably priced dealing in the California Bay Area I might be willing to spend to fix it.

Thanks to everyone, especially raycorri, for this thread. I know this thread has helped many owners of Passlock systems.

raycorri
01-20-2006, 11:00 AM
My only concern is the possible battery issue MT-2500 brought up, I am not entirely sure if this was concluded to be irrelavant or not. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I am hoping to save some time, money and hassle of having a dealer fix this issue.


I think we just kind of agreed to somewhat disagree on the battery issue. The GM upfitter engineering bulletin is written pertaining to Passlock disablement for Trucks and Vans. I just took these ideas and found the Passlock wires in my car. Here is what it says about a disconnected battery:

NOTICE
Any condition which removes battery power from the Vehicle Control Module/Powertrain
Control Module (VCM/PCM) (e.g. dead battery, disconnected harness connectors, etc.) will
prevent the vehicle from being restarted. If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not
start” symptom, check to make sure that the modification switch is in the OFF (contacts closed) position.

That last little bit should probably read (as it pertains to us):If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not start” symptom, place the modification switch in the OFF (contacts closed ) position.

So, some questions you will need to ask yourself, at least from my point of view are: How many times in the past has your battery died or have you disconnected your battery? I had to have my car towed way more times for passlock issues than for a dead battery or disconnect.

It is my hope that others like yourself will report back to this thread with successes or failures pertaining to this modification. (Months or even years from now!) Good luck and I'm sure you will make the right decision based on your particular situation and point of view.

Ray Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club:smokin:

bopdancer
01-20-2006, 05:32 PM
I wish that i had read this before my car stopped starting. My secerity light flashes. I can not start my car. I took it to a car repair shop. They tell me that I need new ignition module. Is there any way that i can get around replacing the module now that my lite is flashing or do I have to replace it. t

MT-2500
01-20-2006, 06:14 PM
I wish that i had read this before my car stopped starting. My secerity light flashes. I can not start my car. I took it to a car repair shop. They tell me that I need new ignition module. Is there any way that i can get around replacing the module now that my lite is flashing or do I have to replace it. t
Welcome to your first post on AF.
Before anybody can help you on your car.
We need the year make and model and eng and trans and mileage. And also what the garage found.
Did they find a ign module on the eng/ign/coil spark system or the the anti theft system module/ign key switch bad?
The bypass on the anti theft system that was talked about only pertains to certain models and certain anti theft systems.
Also the best I understand it it has to be done with the engine running.
No run and you may not be able to perform that certain bypass.
Have you tried leaving the key on 10-20-30 minutes to over ride the system and see if it will start?
If the security light is flashing and you have a no start I would suggest you get the codes out of the body computer first.
And post them back along with the make and model and year and engine sise.
MT

bopdancer
01-21-2006, 06:15 PM
I have a 1997 Oldsmobile 88. It has the passkey II (key with resister in it)system on it. 3800 engine and auto transmition. The security light flashes and will not turn over. The battery has gone dead and will not take charge anymore. the shop did not tell me of any codes. they said they would have to install ignition module of some kind. will not be able to find out for sure until monday.

MT-2500
01-21-2006, 06:38 PM
I have a 1997 Oldsmobile 88. It has the passkey II (key with resister in it)system on it. 3800 engine and auto transmition. The security light flashes and will not turn over. The battery has gone dead and will not take charge anymore. the shop did not tell me of any codes. they said they would have to install ignition module of some kind. will not be able to find out for sure until monday.

I think yours is a older system.
If the battery is dead or has gone dead. Put a new battery in it first.
Then if no start or security ligt is on.
Turn key on for 10-20-30 minutes and see if it will over ride and start.
Also pull codes and see what is going on. And post back any codes no.
Let us know how it goes.
MT

raycorri
01-29-2006, 01:48 AM
Here is a re-write of the GM upfitter bulletins ( http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull2wsA.pdf and http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf ) so that we can more readily apply it to our cars! There is no need to add a remote starter.



PASSLOCK I or II DISABLEMENT

The following is a procedure to disable Passlock I or II Systems for vehicles in which remote start/stop system installations are required. This procedure is required because a remote start system will not function with the current Theft Deterrent System (Passlock) which is included on many 1996 and up GM vehicles.

Please note that this modification is intended to be used only in conjunction with the installation of a remote start/stop system and does not provide a procedure to install a remote start/stop system.

CAUSE
If an attempt is made to start a vehicle by a means other than a key rotation in the ignition switch, the Body Control Module (BCM) will interpret this start as a vehicle theft and disable the fuel injectors.

CORRECTION
A minor wiring modification may be made to allow the vehicle to be started remotely. This modification includes adding a switch to allow the customer to select “ON” to disable Passlock or “OFF” for normal Passlock operation.

CAUTION: When this modification is performed and the switch is set to the ON position, the theft deterrent feature will be disabled. When the theft deterrent is disabled the SECURITY or THEFT telltale will light up indicating that the theft deterrent system is NOT functioning.

PASSLOCK MODIFICATION
Refer to appropriate GM service manuals and/or SVMQP Electrical Guideline Manual for instruction on splicing and electrical connections.
1. Select a suitable on-off switch (see note below) which will be used to disable/
enable the Passlock System. Mount the switch in a location such that it is
accessible to the driver and will not interfere with normal vehicle operation.
NOTE: This is an extremely low current circuit (approx. 7mA), it is therefore very important that a high quality, low energy, fast acting switch be utilized
for this application.
2. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.
3. Locate the Main Ignition Switch Harness. GM's Passlock System wires exit the Ignition Switch Tumbler together and then join with the Main Ignition Switch Harness. (See http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/ or http://64.85.6.118/diagrams/diagrams.asp and select your Make, Model and Year for wire colors and clues on the quickest way to access these wires.)
4. Locate the Yellow Passlock Data Wire which is included in a bundle of three tiny (20 GA) wires wrapped in friction tape.
Cut this wire and splice a 0.5mm2 (20 GA) yellow wire to each end of the cut wire.
Keep wire length to a minimum. Route modification wires clear of moving parts.
Connect the yellow wires to the switch such that the contacts are OPEN when the switch is in the ON position.
5. Turn modification switch to the OFF postion (contacts closed).
6. Start vehicle to verify normal operation. If engine “cranks but will not start"
recheck the switch position (contacts should be closed), wire connectors and
modification wiring.

SWITCH OPERATION

To enable remote start:
Start the engine with the ignition key (modification switch must be in the OFF
position). Turn modification switch to the ON position (contacts open). The
SECURITY or THEFT telltale will light up indicating that the Passlock System is inoperative.
Once the SECURITY or THEFT telltale has been on for at least 5 seconds the vehicle can be turned off and then remotely started.

To disable remote start:
The Passlock System can be reactivated by turning the modification switch OFF
(contacts closed). Vehicle can either be running or off when this is done.

Please note that the VCM/PCM will record Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) related to the security system when the modification switch is in the ON position (circuit open). This is due to the way that the VCM/PCM interprets this condition.

NOTICE
Any condition which removes battery power from the Vehicle Control Module/Powertrain Control Module (VCM/PCM) (e.g. dead battery, disconnected harness connectors, etc.) will prevent the vehicle from being restarted. If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not start” symptom, place the modification switch in the OFF (contacts closed) position. This will reactivate the Passlock System and allow the vehicle to be started with the ignition key.

Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club:smokin:

rputnam
03-05-2006, 05:30 PM
I have a used 99 Astro Van purchase 3 years ago from a dealer without a pass key. The van will start and run but I always noticed the "Security" light come on. My problem is that if I turn the vehicle off it will not re-start until the passing of time. (I guess the 10-minutes I read so but about).

The yellow data wire trick did not work. I cut it will with the motor running and the light came on but would do re-start until I connected the wire and waited. Then it would.

It seems I will have to have the BCM replaced with new passkey and then disable the "feature". I would hate to trade it off to some other fellow as it has taken me 2 years to come across your thread with the obbious problem.

Any other ideas?

rputnam
03-05-2006, 05:54 PM
Looks like the 1st one did post....more details
Thanks to this thread a 2 year old '99 Astro Van mystery is solved. I noticed the "Security" light on sometimes but the van always started.

My problem is I never received the "Pass Key" when I purchased the vehicle used from a dealer, just hardware store type keys. The vehicle starts everyday unless I turn the vehicle off and try to re-start right away. It seems to be more of a problem the last year.

I tried the yellow data wire cut with the engine running and the security light off. The light came on as described but the van would not start. I reconnected the wire and let the 10 minutes pass and it started. I tried disconnectong and re-connecting as described but the light never goes off once it is on.

I guess I need to purchase a new system complete with pass key and then apply the fix. Any other ideas

ponchonutty
03-15-2006, 10:41 AM
Guys, Passkey 1 and 2 systems can use regular keys. The Passkey 3 or 3+ systems can't. Inside the ignition on PK1,2 systems there are tiny magnets that operate the security system. Most of the time those wear out or move to where they won't activate the needed resitance for the BCM to read. The only way to fix that is to install a new decoder/ignition module or to use resistors in between the yellow and black or orange/black wires.

reydemx
06-03-2006, 11:35 PM
how u doin guys, i have a 1998 v6 malibu 115,000 miles. I had the Theft System problem where you have to wait 10 minutes to start, it lasted about a week. Now the car wont start, well it stays on for a second and shuts off but this time the Theft System light does not come on. Do you guys think if i did the toggle switch solution it would work? thanks for the help

ponchonutty
06-05-2006, 04:49 PM
yes it could but you need to diagnose what's actually at fault.

hassanr2000
06-07-2006, 06:59 PM
I’ve been reading up on how to disable the Passkey II alarm system (by cutting the yellow wire [data wire for Passlock system] and installing a toggle switch) but the information was for a Malibu and Oldsmobile. Does anyone know the wire color and its location for a 98 Buick Regal 3.8l. My car is like a reoccurring bad nightmare. It seems like every three weeks now the car just cut off on me while I’m driving, thank God for Triple A. Took it to the dealer, and low and behold they said the computer read code # 1626 (ignition cylinder) and suggested that I replace it for a cost of $545. The other 3 times that the car cut off on me, I had it towed to my mechanic who got the car started without replacing the ignition cylinder. This causes me to believe that the problem is the alarm system. Can anyone help

raycorri
06-08-2006, 10:36 AM
Now the car wont start, well it stays on for a second and shuts off but this time the Theft System light does not come on. Do you guys think if i did the toggle switch solution it would work?

If you can't get your car to start, then the toggle switch will not help you. The car needs to be running when you put the switch in "disable" mode or "cut the data wire".

Ray

raycorri
06-08-2006, 10:53 AM
I’ve been reading up on how to disable the Passkey II alarm system (by cutting the yellow wire [data wire for Passlock system] and installing a toggle switch) but the information was for a Malibu and Oldsmobile. Does anyone know the wire color and its location for a 98 Buick Regal 3.8l.

Does your key have a small chip in it? If I'm not mistaken, your car has Passkey/VATS technology, not Passlock technology. Here is the link for your wire colors. Click on Buick on the left and then select Regal.
http://64.85.6.118/diagrams/diagrams.asp

Here is a specific "how to" for VATS bypass.
http://vats.likeabigdog.com/

This new product is great and easy, but pricey if you have to buy the whole set. Maybe call the number listed to see if you can buy the specific one that you need.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LOCKSMITH-VATS-SECURITY-BYPASS-KIT-for-GM_W0QQitemZ4645273886QQcategoryZ33720QQssPageName ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ray

ponchonutty
06-09-2006, 07:52 PM
I’ve been reading up on how to disable the Passkey II alarm system (by cutting the yellow wire [data wire for Passlock system] and installing a toggle switch) but the information was for a Malibu and Oldsmobile. Does anyone know the wire color and its location for a 98 Buick Regal 3.8l. My car is like a reoccurring bad nightmare. It seems like every three weeks now the car just cut off on me while I’m driving, thank God for Triple A. Took it to the dealer, and low and behold they said the computer read code # 1626 (ignition cylinder) and suggested that I replace it for a cost of $545. The other 3 times that the car cut off on me, I had it towed to my mechanic who got the car started without replacing the ignition cylinder. This causes me to believe that the problem is the alarm system. Can anyone help


You may have code #1626 but your car shutting off while driving isn't a symptom of it. Once your car successfully starts, VATS or Passlock can't shut it back down. You have something else going on as well.

MalibuBob
06-09-2006, 11:35 PM
Anyone know if this method works on an '05 Malibu LS?

raycorri
06-13-2006, 05:22 PM
Anyone know if this method works on an '05 Malibu LS?

2005 Malibu Classic-- Passlock 2---- Yes

2005 Malibu Maxx-- Passkey 3 Transponder-- No

Just remember, this can void your warranty!


Ray

hassanr2000
06-14-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, I really don't know what is going on with that car. The car just stopped running again. The dealer said that it is the ignition control module and that it would cost $454. When the car cut off the other three previous times I 'm almost certain that my mechanic replaced the ignition control module (twice) and told me to take it to the dealer ther next time the car cut off because he don't know how to correct what is really wrong with the car. Can anyone offer any insight?

ponchonutty
06-18-2006, 08:41 AM
Sorry, without having the car in my hands at the time it does it, I can't say what could the problem be. I had an older Caddy that would shut down if you went a constant 40-50 mph. Above or below that it would be fine. Ended up being a rotted battery cable.

When it comes to electronics, it can be a number of things being the culprit.

hassanr2000
06-18-2006, 11:25 AM
Sorry, I have a 98 Buick Regal 3.8l

MT-2500
06-18-2006, 11:40 AM
Well, I really don't know what is going on with that car. The car just stopped running again. The dealer said that it is the ignition control module and that it would cost $454. When the car cut off the other three previous times I 'm almost certain that my mechanic replaced the ignition control module (twice) and told me to take it to the dealer ther next time the car cut off because he don't know how to correct what is really wrong with the car. Can anyone offer any insight?


If it is at the dealer and he has found the problem let him have at it.
The only thing I would check out is.

Tip on going to the dealer
Ask that only a factory certified gasoline engine performance specialist work on your car.
Not all dealerships are concerned with how repairs are dispatched, and not all dealership techs bother to take advantage of the training offered by Factoty (the vast majority of which is paid training). If the dealer is uncooperative, ask for your money back and call around for a dealer that will accommodate you.

Good Luck
MT

MalibuBob
06-18-2006, 05:14 PM
2005 Malibu Classic-- Passlock 2---- Yes

2005 Malibu Maxx-- Passkey 3 Transponder-- No

Just remember, this can void your warranty!


Ray

Mine is an '05 Sedan, not the Maxx, but I'm going to assume that doesn't make any difference in this case.
Guess I need to go buy a few $$$ spare keys!

Thanks!

Kevro869
07-14-2006, 07:31 PM
I just insert the key into the ignition by itself, i.e., no keyring weighing it down. Haven't had any problems since...

ponchonutty
07-14-2006, 09:37 PM
I just insert the key into the ignition by itself, i.e., no keyring weighing it down. Haven't had any problems since...
There might be something here. It seems that the highest failure is with women. The only thing they've seen much the same is HUGE keychains or many keys and stuff on there. They think that weight causes the failure.

haligantruckie
07-16-2006, 06:13 PM
I just want to be sure on the correect fix to my car problems. I have a 1998 malibu with the 2.4 L 4 cyl and 130,000miles. Sometimes when you get in to start it the theft deterrent light flashes and the car will not start. Had it to a dealer and he said it was the tumbler for the theft sys. I assume that is in the ignition switch. Usually after 10-20 min the car will start. Will cutting the yellow wire/switch insertion work or do i have to do something else. PLEASE HELP Thanks

ponchonutty
07-16-2006, 07:49 PM
Nope, you have the classic PK2 failure.

Sayguh
07-16-2006, 10:51 PM
2002 Chevy Malibu, I've had the theft light problem a lot and now I have a new problem and I'm not sure if it's related. Occationally I'll go to turn on the car and it won't start, but not only that, none of the gauges show anything (0 fuel, 0 rpm, 0 everything) but the car is getting power. (CD player works, fans work, dome light, head lights). When it does work, the theft light is usually on, and while driving all the gaugess will occationally turn off and turn back on arond 10 min later. Is this theft system problems? What could it be? PLease e-mail me.

Youssef_Bagoulla@hotmail.com

dalvarez46
07-19-2006, 09:18 PM
I wish I could provide you with some positive or helpful information for your passlock system. I had a 2002 Malibu LS and experienced the same exact problem. I had it towed, several times (I thought AAA was going to drop me at one point). In fact, the local tow truck driver knew me and asked how my roomate and family were b/c of his frequent visits. The local chevy dealer told me the first time I had it towed, that it was the computer and a module had to be replaced. They said if this happened again, the computer would need to be replaced. Well, it happened again and I was told this time that there was an update the computer needed and it should be ok. Then it happened again. I bought a honda 3 days later. Prior to my recent purchase, I had always had chevys, with minimal problems. The malibu I owned was a nightmare. In addition to the passlock system, the breaks and usually rotors required frequent replacing and usually started shaking and vibrating after 3,000 miles, but usually they said the breaks were fine so I would drive it like this. $1700 went to fixing an internal dex-cool leak. I replaced the ignition switch and ignition cylinder 2x. I'm really sorry to hear of your problems with your malibu, in the end I had to get rid of mine. The most frustrating part wasn't so much the car being so problematic, it was Chevrolets refusal to recognize any of these problems which I think sadly has cost them much business.

ponchonutty
07-26-2006, 09:46 AM
This is what I've found out and I've read the service manuals, and it sure seems doable.

Connect a resistor that would be within the normal range for the passlock system......

1. Attempt to start car; it will crank and fail, with the security light flashing. Leave the ignition on for 10 minutes, until the security light goes out.

2. Repeat step 1, two more times.

3. Car should now have learned its new key cylinder, or in this case, new resistor.

Sayguh
07-26-2006, 11:46 AM
I don't know about the resistor trick, i just cut the passlock wire and put a switch in. I've even unplugged my battery for a few hours, and switched the switch to enable it. turned the car on, and then disabled while the car is running. It's easy to do, skill level 1 i'd say. You just need wire strippers (a knife could do it) and a switch from radio shack. I soldered long wires to the switch and then just wire knoted it to the other ends of the security wire. I'm sure you could do it with out soldering, just loop the wire in the hole that comes on the switch.

ponchonutty
07-26-2006, 08:44 PM
Yes but the switch is totally unnecessary. With this resistor constantly grounded to the "input" wire on the PK2 system, it'll always work. There's no reason to flip a switch.

Sayguh
07-27-2006, 07:18 AM
Do you have any documentation on it? And also what resistor value is in the proper range? Has anyone else tried this?

ponchonutty
07-29-2006, 07:32 AM
I've talked to a few other remote start installers that have done this to vehicles that are had the security light comming on even before they did a remote start or other installs. The procedure I listed is what you have to do when you replace the ignition cylinder.

britchick
08-05-2006, 03:24 PM
HI I am having the same problem as most it seems with the Malibu pass lock. I went to start up the car this morning and the Theftloc light is on and car will not start. I have cleaned the key, left key on for 10 minutes, unlocked the doors with the key etc etc and nothing is working. I called chevy and they want to toe it in and in a not so nice way told them unless they wre going to pay for it heck no. There are to many others having the same problem can anyone else tell me another idea plz i am going nuts over this

Add your comment to this topic!