Passlock System - Car Forums and Automotive Chat

raycorri

12-30-2005, 08:55 PM

The anti theft in my 2001 Malibu is acting up more than usual lately, i.e having to wait 10-15mins for the system to reset itself. At first it happened every few months or so but now it has happened 3 or 4 times in the last 3 weeks. I am thinking of disabling it. Is it possible and has anyone done it? If so, are there any tricks or tips at disabling it and if it is disabled will if effect anything else with the car?
Any advice is very much appreciated.

Yeah, I'm not so sure that the toggle switch is original equipment. As for disabling Passlock 1 or 2, it can be done fairly easily. I did this to my 2002 Olds Alero with Passlock 2. Yours is apparently Passlock 2 also according to these photos that follow. You don't have to install a toggle switch, but I would suggest it in case you go to a dealership for service and they need the Passlock re-enabled. I'm sure they will try to tell you that you shouldn't do this. You can just print out this article to educate them on their own system. The BCM is already programmed to go into "fail-enable" mode when the key reference circuit (yellow passlock wire) is broken (cut) while the engine is running. That's the key ---- while the engine is running. The security/anti-theft light will come on and stay on until the circuit is repaired. Your Passlock is now disabled. Just don't repair the circuit (reconnect the wire) unless absolutely necessary. I have read where others just tape up both ends of the cut yellow wire and leave it that way. This probably works fine, but I like the idea of being able to repair the circuit by the flip of a switch. (Just in case.)

This is the MOTOR AGE article describing "fail-enable" mode:
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf
page 3, If the correct key is in the cylinder and that circuit
fails while the engine is running, this is considered a
malfunction, not a theft attempt. The “Security” light
may turn on to warn of a system malfunction, but even if
it doesn’t, a key recognition circuit failure with the proper
key in the lock will cause the TDM to enter what GM
calls a “fail-enable” mode. Essentially, the theft-deterrent
system goes offline and the engine will start and run
with any key that turns the lock.

Here are 2001 Malibu photos to help you get to the Yellow Passlock 2 wire to cut it while the engine is running. Read the directions below each photo. By the looks of these photos, you should probably go ahead and start your car with your key (no keyring or keys attached) so you won't have to figure out how to start it with the Switch in an unsecure position later in the process.

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=761&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=762&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=765&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=766&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=768&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=769&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=772&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=775&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=777&link=BULLDOG

That yellow wire is the one to clip while the car is running! Incidentally, Malibus, Grand AMs and Aleros are all having the same Passlock problems. Coincidentally, we all have the same part # for the Ignition Lock Cylinder. A Passlock sensor is built into this cylinder. If this sensor goes bad, you have to replace the entire Ignition Lock Cylinder. GM is making a killing and so are the dealerships. I'm not knocking the Certified Technicians, they are just doing what they are trained to do. How can anyone deny that this part is defective? If you are tired of having to wait to start the car that you worked so hard to buy with your own money, you should be able to disable the Passlock if you want to. This is just one way to do it. Here is the Ignition Lock Cylinder part # and I hope this disablement will really help some of you.
1999 - 2004 Alero
1997 - 2003 Malibu
1999 - 2004 Grand Am

The GM part number is 12458191.

kees45

12-31-2005, 05:28 PM

Will this work for a 2002 Impala as well?

raycorri

12-31-2005, 08:30 PM

Will this work for a 2002 Impala as well?

Yeah, you have Passlock 2 also. If you are afraid to cut the Yellow wire, just unplug the plug with the 3 Passlock wires on top of the ignition lock cylinder while the car is running and it will provide the same end result. This way you can see it work and feel a little more at ease before you cut the yellow wire to install a toggle. It's just sometimes a little harder to get to the plug on some vehicles. Here is a suggestion that I found on how to get to your wires.

NOTE *1 To get to the IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS, you MUST remove the RADIO without unplugging the radio. Make sure you catch ALL ignition wires at the back of the ignition switch.

This shouldn't take very long at all! By the way, I am just getting basic info at
http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/ and clicking on Vehicle Wiring Diagrams---then select your make---then select model and year to get hints on how to access the Ignition Lock Cylinders. It also tells you which anti-theft system you have for your particular car. Welcome to the Anti-Passlock Club!

raycorri

12-31-2005, 11:30 PM

I keep finding more info on this way to Disable the Passlock utilizing a switch. The following bulletin is from GM on this exact modification. We are just accessing the "Yellow Passlock Data Wire" at a different point than they are on the trucks. Interesting, huh? Maybe this is the same modification that bcopeland had on his 99 Malibu?
http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf

kees45

01-02-2006, 03:00 PM

raycorri

01-02-2006, 03:38 PM

Went thu the procedure of cutting the yellow wire. Added an extension to it with a toggle switch. Car starts. But message center shows security lock message on all the time because toggle switch is in off position. Am a bit hesitant to switch toggle switch to on as that put system in precut condition. Do I start the car with the toggle switch off? And then switch it on? Any suggestions how to work it? Or is the situation now that the security lock light will or has to be be on all the time?
In the meantime I thank you for your responses. It certainly did help a lot. Happy New Year.
Kees

Wow! Coincidence that I just logged on. It looks like you did everything right. Yes, the Security Lock message will always be on while the Passlock is disabled. I would suggest that you test your system while the car is running. Just flip the switch to on while the car is running to put Passlock system in precut condition as you said. Your system should reset and clear out the Security lock message.(Passlock Enabled) Once this works, go ahead and break the circuit again by flipping the toggle in the opposite direction. Security message should again illuminate.(Passlock Disabled) You can now shut your car off and know that it will start every time. Please post back soon to let me know that this worked for you. Now that I have my Passlock Disabled, I just leave the toggle in that position and never touch it. My car cranks every time with no worries of the dreaded 10 minute wait. Incidentally, how long did the whole modification take you? Thanks for posting back, Ray

kees45

01-02-2006, 04:17 PM

Wow! Coincidence that I just logged on. It looks like you did everything right. Yes, the Security Lock message will always be on while the Passlock is disabled. I would suggest that you test your system while the car is running. Just flip the switch to on while the car is running to put Passlock system in precut condition as you said. Your system should reset and clear out the Security lock message.(Passlock Enabled) Once this works, go ahead and break the circuit again by flipping the toggle in the opposite direction. Security message should again illuminate.(Passlock Disabled) You can now shut your car off and know that it will start every time. Please post back soon to let me know that this worked for you. Now that I have my Passlock Disabled, I just leave the toggle in that position and never touch it. My car cranks every time with no worries of the dreaded 10 minute wait. Incidentally, how long did the whole modification take you? Thanks for posting back, Ray

Hey, Thanks for being so quick. It took me about 2 hours on the impala. Most of the work is getting the dashboard apart as I had no idea where the screws and clips are that hold it all together. I also suggest to write down the sequence of taking it apart as that will make it easier to put it all back together again. Once that was done it was a bit akward as the tranny lever is in the way so you have to put that into its lowest position. Which means you have to start the car. Also Just use the key, nothing on it. But once that is done all you need to do is take the 2 bolts that hold the ignition key. No need to take the radio or panle for the heat/airco out.You then have enough room on the left next to the instrument panel to push the ignition switch back and to the left. That exposes just enough of the 3 wires and just enough room to cut the yellow wire. When cutting make sure you allow enough so you are able to solder 2 wires to the cut yellow. Lots of room to bring the added wire down and install a toggle. I am going to drive/stop/start the engine for the rest of the afternoon. Tomorrow I am away for the whole day so I will report back as soon as possible. Probably Wednesday.
Again, thanks for all your unput.
Kees

raycorri

01-02-2006, 05:32 PM

Wow, it appears that accessing your 3 Passlock wires was a bit more involved than what I had to do. On a lot of these cars, you can simply remove the radio and reach in to the left to grab the 3 Passlock wires to perform the modification. Regardless, I think you will be happy with the results of your effort.
Later, Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

MT-2500

01-02-2006, 06:55 PM

Ok
Fellows be carefull out there.
I ran this by an double checked it with a GM master anti theft tech.
And here is the hole ball of wax on it.

quote
there is no such thing as Passlock 1 or 2, unless you are talking about PassKey, which has 1,2, or 3....

As for cutting a wire while the vehicle is running(FIRST YOU HAVE TO GET IT RUNNING IF IT'S IN A NO START MODE), this might work, IT MAY GO INTO FAILSAFE MODE, but I'm not into cutting wires to make something work....and guess what, if your battery dies, needs to be replaced, or is disconnected for any reason, then you are screwed, because then it will NEVER START...

As stated there if your battery goes dead or is unpluged you may have to replace the pcm and anti theft module.

And a gm anti system is not the only system that can have total shut down from anti theft system being jumped or unpluged. Or a dead battery problem.
MT :grinyes: :lol: :lol2: :grinyes:

troy1

01-02-2006, 08:36 PM

best to put the switch in there like the TSB says instead of cutting the wire

raycorri

01-02-2006, 09:17 PM

Ok
Fellows be carefull out there.
I ran this by an double checked it with a GM master anti theft tech.
And here is the hole ball of wax on it.

quote
there is no such thing as Passlock 1 or 2, unless you are talking about PassKey, which has 1,2, or 3....

MT :grinyes: :lol: :lol2: :grinyes:

I see your point and certainly understand your concern. The initial question was something to the effect of, "Is it possible and has anyone done it?" This bulletin from GM clearly describes the procedure that I used (or should have used) on my vehicle and addresses all of the concerns that you mentioned.(ie.-battery disconnect or dead battery.)(Incidentally, I disconnected my battery for a day and reconnected it. Then I placed my toggle switch in the Enable mode to put the system back on as in this bulletin. The car started up fine. I then disabled the Passlock again with no problems.) Please print out this document and have your friend read it. Maybe he can shed some further light on it.
http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf

I agree with you that you need to get the vehicle running without any Security light flashing or staying on before you start this modification. Once the "Hall Effect Sensor" goes completely bad in the Ignition Lock Cylinder it's too late to try this method. You will just have to replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder before you can get the car to start again. Those of us that have had numerous failures with the Ignition Lock Cylinder are just too fed up and too broke to not try something else.

As for the term Passlock, I don't know what to tell you. The above document from GM and my 2002 Alero Owner's Manual refer to it as Passlock. This Motor Age article gives a brief history of GM's anti-theft systems also:

http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf

The Vehicle Anti Theft System (VATS) was first installed on the 1985 Corvette. The Personal Anti-theft Security
System (PASSkey) replaced VATS in 1988, and while there
are some differences, VATS and Passkey I and II all work
the same way. There is no radio communication involved;
the system merely looks for the ignition key’s unique electronic
signature. Passkey III and the newer Passlock systems
were introduced in 1998, but the earlier systems
weren’t completely phased out until 2003.

Here's another document explaining the Passlock sensors:

Document ID# 468000
1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass

Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Description

Important
Due to component variability, the vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system must have the learn procedure performed regardless, if the vehicle starts on the first ignition cycle after a VTD repair.

All codes in the theft deterrent module must be cleared for a relearn.

The vehicle theft deterrent system is designed in order to prevent vehicle theft by disabling the fuel injectors unless the lock cylinder is correctly engaged by a mechanical key. The theft deterrent system uses the following 4 components for theft prevention:

The lock cylinder
The ignition switch
The body control module (BCM)
The powertrain control module (PCM)
When starting the engine, the PCM searches for a password from the BCM through the Class 2 serial data circuit. If the password is not recognized or not present, the PCM will disable the engine. Two modes of tamper detection are provided:

No password received The engine will start and stall quickly. SECURITY telltale will flash on the instrument panel cluster (IPC) and then stay ON steady.
Incorrect or disable password received (More than 3 invalid passwords are received) The engine is disabled for at least 10 minutes and the SECURITY telltale will illuminate solid on the IPC during the 10 minutes.
After the vehicle has passed theft detection, the PCM will continue normal operation.

Ignition Switch
The mechanical key and lock cylinder is located in the instrument panel assembly. The electrical switching portion of the assembly is separate from the key and lock cylinder. Both of the components are synchronized and work in conjunction through the action of the actuator rod assembly.

Passlock™ Lock Cylinder
The Passlock™ lock cylinder is a locking cylinder that turns a rotating magnet past a stationary hall effect sensor. This action creates the Passlock™ cylinder data. The Passlock™ cylinder data is sent to the body control module (BCM). The Passlock™ lock cylinder is interfaced with the BCM via a 3-wire connection:

Power
Ground
Data

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is located on the lower left side of the instrument panel.

The PCM communicates with the body control module (BCM) via serial data over the class 2 serial data bus, CKT 1807. When the BCM determines a passed theft condition, the BCM sends a coded password to the PCM. When the PCM receives the correct password, the PCM enables the fuel injection system, allowing the vehicle to operate correctly. The PCM may allow the car to start and quickly stall during a failed theft condition.

The following conditions may cause the PCM to enter a tamper mode:

A bad timing cycle
An incorrect password
If the BCM does not receive a password within a preset time window, the BCM will enter a short tamper mode. During this mode, the PCM will not allow the car to operate for 4 seconds.

If the password is incorrect, the PCM will enter the long tamper mode. In the long tamper mode, the following actions will occur:

The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will flash.
The fuel injectors will be shut off for approximately 10 minutes.
Although the vehicle may start, the engine will quickly stall due to a fuel cut-off.

In the event of an open in the serial data communication between the BCM and the PCM, the following actions occur:

The PCM will become fail-enabled if the car has already passed theft for that ignition cycle (i.e. the engine is running).
The PCM may set the diagnostic trouble codes (DTC).
The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will light continuously.
The PCM will become fail-enabled for future ignition cycles.
If a failure occurs in serial data before the ignition cycle, while the PCM is not fail-enabled, the PCM will never receive a valid password in order to enable the continued use of the fuel injectors.

All of that to say this...... This is really a great forum. You are able to question the information that I provided because you really care that others are hearing all sides of the discussion. I question your friend's information too. Has he seen the Motor Age article or the GM UIB(Upfitter Integration Bulletin) that I have referred to? A title doesn't necessarily make him right. That's not an attack on him by any means. You know none of this would be necessary if GM would just stand up and take responsibility for a defect. I'm not willing to spend another penny on this problem. I started posting this "one way of doing it" because I have rarely seen other posts actually give a different answer other than "take it to the GM dealership." I questioned a few dealerships and they "will not disable Passlock or Passkey" for anyone.(If they told us how to do it ourselves they would have to kill us.) So this means they "will replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder" for a nominal fee. Honestly, I'm just trying to help other desperate people out there. You know what they say, "Desperate people do desperate things." I think this modification works great!

Just one more thing. Why is it that we never see any posts on this forum of people who are happy with their Passlock or Passkey. You know, like, "Passlock really saved my car from being ripped off!" Hooray! I'm not ready to relinquish my membership in The Anti-Passlock Club just yet.

Ray :smokin:

raycorri

01-02-2006, 09:34 PM

best to put the switch in there like the TSB says instead of cutting the wire

I assume you mean cutting the wire while the engine is running? Yeah, I had already made my modification before I found the UIB(Upfitter Integration Bulletin). It would have saved me some gas $. It's nice to have this bulletin as confirmation. I also wired my toggle backwards from the way it suggests. (On for Passlock Enable---Off for Passlock Disable.) Either way, it works.

Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

MT-2500

01-03-2006, 02:56 PM

I see your point and certainly understand your concern. The initial question was something to the effect of, "Is it possible and has anyone done it?" This bulletin from GM clearly describes the procedure that I used (or should have used) on my vehicle and addresses all of the concerns that you mentioned.(ie.-battery disconnect or dead battery.)(Incidentally, I disconnected my battery for a day and reconnected it. Then I placed my toggle switch in the Enable mode to put the system back on as in this bulletin. The car started up fine. I then disabled the Passlock again with no problems.) Please print out this document and have your friend read it. Maybe he can shed some further light on it.
http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf

I agree with you that you need to get the vehicle running without any Security light flashing or staying on before you start this modification. Once the "Hall Effect Sensor" goes completely bad in the Ignition Lock Cylinder it's too late to try this method. You will just have to replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder before you can get the car to start again. Those of us that have had numerous failures with the Ignition Lock Cylinder are just too fed up and too broke to not try something else.

As for the term Passlock, I don't know what to tell you. The above document from GM and my 2002 Alero Owner's Manual refer to it as Passlock. This Motor Age article gives a brief history of GM's anti-theft systems also:

http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf

The Vehicle Anti Theft System (VATS) was first installed on the 1985 Corvette. The Personal Anti-theft Security
System (PASSkey) replaced VATS in 1988, and while there
are some differences, VATS and Passkey I and II all work
the same way. There is no radio communication involved;
the system merely looks for the ignition key’s unique electronic
signature. Passkey III and the newer Passlock systems
were introduced in 1998, but the earlier systems
weren’t completely phased out until 2003.

Here's another document explaining the Passlock sensors:

Document ID# 468000
1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass

Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Description

Important
Due to component variability, the vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system must have the learn procedure performed regardless, if the vehicle starts on the first ignition cycle after a VTD repair.

All codes in the theft deterrent module must be cleared for a relearn.

The vehicle theft deterrent system is designed in order to prevent vehicle theft by disabling the fuel injectors unless the lock cylinder is correctly engaged by a mechanical key. The theft deterrent system uses the following 4 components for theft prevention:

The lock cylinder
The ignition switch
The body control module (BCM)
The powertrain control module (PCM)
When starting the engine, the PCM searches for a password from the BCM through the Class 2 serial data circuit. If the password is not recognized or not present, the PCM will disable the engine. Two modes of tamper detection are provided:

No password received The engine will start and stall quickly. SECURITY telltale will flash on the instrument panel cluster (IPC) and then stay ON steady.
Incorrect or disable password received (More than 3 invalid passwords are received) The engine is disabled for at least 10 minutes and the SECURITY telltale will illuminate solid on the IPC during the 10 minutes.
After the vehicle has passed theft detection, the PCM will continue normal operation.

Ignition Switch
The mechanical key and lock cylinder is located in the instrument panel assembly. The electrical switching portion of the assembly is separate from the key and lock cylinder. Both of the components are synchronized and work in conjunction through the action of the actuator rod assembly.

Passlock™ Lock Cylinder
The Passlock™ lock cylinder is a locking cylinder that turns a rotating magnet past a stationary hall effect sensor. This action creates the Passlock™ cylinder data. The Passlock™ cylinder data is sent to the body control module (BCM). The Passlock™ lock cylinder is interfaced with the BCM via a 3-wire connection:

Power
Ground
Data

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is located on the lower left side of the instrument panel.

The PCM communicates with the body control module (BCM) via serial data over the class 2 serial data bus, CKT 1807. When the BCM determines a passed theft condition, the BCM sends a coded password to the PCM. When the PCM receives the correct password, the PCM enables the fuel injection system, allowing the vehicle to operate correctly. The PCM may allow the car to start and quickly stall during a failed theft condition.

The following conditions may cause the PCM to enter a tamper mode:

A bad timing cycle
An incorrect password
If the BCM does not receive a password within a preset time window, the BCM will enter a short tamper mode. During this mode, the PCM will not allow the car to operate for 4 seconds.

If the password is incorrect, the PCM will enter the long tamper mode. In the long tamper mode, the following actions will occur:

The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will flash.
The fuel injectors will be shut off for approximately 10 minutes.
Although the vehicle may start, the engine will quickly stall due to a fuel cut-off.

In the event of an open in the serial data communication between the BCM and the PCM, the following actions occur:

The PCM will become fail-enabled if the car has already passed theft for that ignition cycle (i.e. the engine is running).
The PCM may set the diagnostic trouble codes (DTC).
The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will light continuously.
The PCM will become fail-enabled for future ignition cycles.
If a failure occurs in serial data before the ignition cycle, while the PCM is not fail-enabled, the PCM will never receive a valid password in order to enable the continued use of the fuel injectors.

All of that to say this...... This is really a great forum. You are able to question the information that I provided because you really care that others are hearing all sides of the discussion. I question your friend's information too. Has he seen the Motor Age article or the TSB that I have referred to? A title doesn't necessarily make him right. That's not an attack on him by any means. You know none of this would be necessary if GM would just stand up and take responsibility for a defect. I'm not willing to spend another penny on this problem. I started posting this "one way of doing it" because I have rarely seen other posts actually give a different answer other than "take it to the GM dealership." I questioned a few dealerships and they "will not disable Passlock or Passkey" for anyone.(If they told us how to do it ourselves they would have to kill us.) So this means they "will replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder" for a nominal fee. Honestly, I'm just trying to help other desperate people out there. You know what they say, "Desperate people do desperate things." I think this modification works great!

Just one more thing. Why is it that we never see any posts on this forum of people who are happy with their Passlock or Passkey. You know, like, "Passlock really saved my car from being ripped off!" Hooray! I'm not ready to relinquish my membership in The Anti-Passlock Club just yet.

Ray :smokin:

My advise is still proceed with caution.
Gm uses 4-5 different anti theft systems depending on year and make and model. The wrong disconnect or jump can shut down or wipe out the pcm or body module or theft module.
I know it takes money to fix the system if it gives problems and the dealer do not help any. They to often just replace everything.
And a lot of people just want to bypass the hole sysem.
When a lot of trouble is just a simple dirty connection or loose wire or
pcm or body module or theft module or what ever.
When a system acts up it should be tested out first thing. To find out for sure what it is.
The wire disconnect you showed us may fix the problem on some but it depends on the problem or what it is.
I can not see it being a fix all for all modles and systems.

On that GM Upfitter integeration Truck Group UI bulletin # 26 is it from GM or a GM factory bulletion or from other source?
I can not find it in any of my repair programs.
MT

SpinnerCee

01-03-2006, 04:42 PM

I have seen the same no-start on a 2001 Impala -- I actually called the dealer, and they told me this "procedure" over the phone:

Turn Key to on position, wait 5 minutes, turn key to start.... Vrooooom!

It worked! I told the dealer, and he suggested I bring the thing in anyway because it wil probably "happen again"

This was the first time, so we'll wait and see...

Anyways, thanks for the info in this thread, it really helped me.... :)

MT-2500

01-03-2006, 06:44 PM

SpinnerCee
It was giving you a warning.
You need to get it tested out.
You were luckie and got it to override and start.
The next time it may or not overide.
But again proceed with caution on trying to bypass or fix it.
The Impala 01 is a long way from a 01 malibu that only has one theft system.
The 01 Impala has 3 different anti theft systems.
Passlock TM system
Content Theft Deterrent CTD system
Vehicle Theft Deterent VTD system
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/01impala.pdf
First step in repair or check out is to get it on a body capable scanner and check for codes past and present.
And as soon after it acts up as you can get it checked.
Good Luck MT

MT-2500

01-03-2006, 07:31 PM

SpinnerCee and 00-05 Impala Monte Carlo owners.
Here is A GM tsb that may help on anti theft no start.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/Impala%20.pdf
MT

MT-2500

01-03-2006, 07:39 PM

SpinnerCee and 00-05 Impala Monte Carlo owners.
Here is A GM tsb that may help on anti theft no start.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/Impala%20.pdf
MT

raycorri

01-05-2006, 06:21 PM

I can not see it being a fix all for all modles and systems.

On that GM Upfitter integeration Truck Group UI bulletin # 26 is it from GM or a GM factory bulletion or from other source?
I can not find it in any of my repair programs.
MT

Hey MT, I concede after reading your info on the Impala.(Maybe not a fix for all models and systems.) They don't have a bare bones ride like mine.(2002 Alero-no key fob or Content Theft Deterrent CTD system.) I am still very interested in hearing back from kees45 on his modification results. (To see if he is having any adverse effects.) I am not privy to most TSBs that you might be able to access. I find whatever I can by Googling. I just happened to put in the right keywords to find that GM Upfitter bulletin. This is what I could find as the source:

Technical Bulletins

The Technical Bulletin Process informs manufacturers of any product changes or issues that may affect their designs. The need for a bulletin may come from:
a. A GM Vehicle Engineering source such as a Mock-up review, where a product change requires an upfitter design or manufacturing modification;

b. One or more upfitters who have expressed repetitive concerns or experienced a frequent
vehicle difficulty.
The investigation process for a bulletin is similar to a Hotline request in that an Upfitter Integration Vehicle Engineer is assigned the responsibility of researching the situation; however, a question or concern only becomes a bulletin when it is judged to affect all upfitters or an entire vehicle platform and any resolution needs to be communicated to every concerned party. Engineering drawings that illustrate the issues and highlight corrective action measures or possible redesigns are gathered, the Bulletin goes through a review and approval process by all affected areas within GM Vehicle Engineering, and is then published and distributed to the entire upfitter community.

So, I guess that bulletin came from GM Vehicle Engineering.(Dated 4/22/99) The upfitter community appears to deal mostly with GM Fleet Trucks and Vans.

Anyhow, Thanks for your continued input!
Ray
Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

raycorri

01-06-2006, 08:28 PM

kees45 has replied back at this thread!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=500103

Ray

MT-2500

01-06-2006, 10:05 PM

raycorri

01-07-2006, 05:43 AM

Raycorri
Thank for posting back with the info on the upfitters bulletin.
It would be nice and a lot simpler if the manfactures would make the anti theft systems where you could turn them off or disable them if they give problems or if a person does not want them.
Good luck MT

I just thought that this thread has gotten so involved that I might as well put this info out there as well for people to read. Here's all that you ever wanted to know (and a whole lot that you didn't want to know) about Passlock and Passkey/VATS and which keys use resistors and why sometimes Glove Box, Trunk, or Door Keys will or will not start the car. Have fun wading through this stuff!

http://www.insurorsservicebureau.co...ical/ISB_QA.pdf

PASSLOCK I, NEW GM SECURITY SYSTEM(Page4)
http://www.techtrainproductions.com/bulletin/ttb_14.pdf

GM TEN-CUT BITTING: A STUDY IN CONFUSION (Page 7)
http://www.techtrainproductions.com/bulletin/ttb_15.pdf

Ray - Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

maliblue98

01-19-2006, 11:38 PM

I have been struggling with this Passlock II (Malibu 1998) issue for the past year, and it seems to be getting worse. I am thinking of going with raycorri's method as I don't care to have the "sercurity" or having the theft-light on while driving. My only concern is the possible battery issue MT-2500 brought up, I am not entirely sure if this was concluded to be irrelavant or not. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I am hoping to save some time, money and hassle of having a dealer fix this issue. If anyone knows a knowledgable and reasonably priced dealing in the California Bay Area I might be willing to spend to fix it.

Thanks to everyone, especially raycorri, for this thread. I know this thread has helped many owners of Passlock systems.

raycorri

01-20-2006, 11:00 AM

My only concern is the possible battery issue MT-2500 brought up, I am not entirely sure if this was concluded to be irrelavant or not. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I am hoping to save some time, money and hassle of having a dealer fix this issue.

I think we just kind of agreed to somewhat disagree on the battery issue. The GM upfitter engineering bulletin is written pertaining to Passlock disablement for Trucks and Vans. I just took these ideas and found the Passlock wires in my car. Here is what it says about a disconnected battery:

NOTICE
Any condition which removes battery power from the Vehicle Control Module/Powertrain
Control Module (VCM/PCM) (e.g. dead battery, disconnected harness connectors, etc.) will
prevent the vehicle from being restarted. If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not
start” symptom, check to make sure that the modification switch is in the OFF (contacts closed) position.

That last little bit should probably read (as it pertains to us):If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not start” symptom, place the modification switch in the OFF (contacts closed ) position.

So, some questions you will need to ask yourself, at least from my point of view are: How many times in the past has your battery died or have you disconnected your battery? I had to have my car towed way more times for passlock issues than for a dead battery or disconnect.

It is my hope that others like yourself will report back to this thread with successes or failures pertaining to this modification. (Months or even years from now!) Good luck and I'm sure you will make the right decision based on your particular situation and point of view.

Ray Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club:smokin:

bopdancer

01-20-2006, 05:32 PM

MT-2500

01-20-2006, 06:14 PM

I wish that i had read this before my car stopped starting. My secerity light flashes. I can not start my car. I took it to a car repair shop. They tell me that I need new ignition module. Is there any way that i can get around replacing the module now that my lite is flashing or do I have to replace it. t
Welcome to your first post on AF.
Before anybody can help you on your car.
We need the year make and model and eng and trans and mileage. And also what the garage found.
Did they find a ign module on the eng/ign/coil spark system or the the anti theft system module/ign key switch bad?
The bypass on the anti theft system that was talked about only pertains to certain models and certain anti theft systems.
Also the best I understand it it has to be done with the engine running.
No run and you may not be able to perform that certain bypass.
Have you tried leaving the key on 10-20-30 minutes to over ride the system and see if it will start?
If the security light is flashing and you have a no start I would suggest you get the codes out of the body computer first.
And post them back along with the make and model and year and engine sise.
MT

bopdancer

01-21-2006, 06:15 PM

MT-2500

01-21-2006, 06:38 PM

I have a 1997 Oldsmobile 88. It has the passkey II (key with resister in it)system on it. 3800 engine and auto transmition. The security light flashes and will not turn over. The battery has gone dead and will not take charge anymore. the shop did not tell me of any codes. they said they would have to install ignition module of some kind. will not be able to find out for sure until monday.

I think yours is a older system.
If the battery is dead or has gone dead. Put a new battery in it first.
Then if no start or security ligt is on.
Turn key on for 10-20-30 minutes and see if it will over ride and start.
Also pull codes and see what is going on. And post back any codes no.
Let us know how it goes.
MT

raycorri

01-29-2006, 01:48 AM

Here is a re-write of the GM upfitter bulletins ( http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull2wsA.pdf and http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf ) so that we can more readily apply it to our cars! There is no need to add a remote starter.

PASSLOCK I or II DISABLEMENT

The following is a procedure to disable Passlock I or II Systems for vehicles in which remote start/stop system installations are required. This procedure is required because a remote start system will not function with the current Theft Deterrent System (Passlock) which is included on many 1996 and up GM vehicles.

Please note that this modification is intended to be used only in conjunction with the installation of a remote start/stop system and does not provide a procedure to install a remote start/stop system.

CAUSE
If an attempt is made to start a vehicle by a means other than a key rotation in the ignition switch, the Body Control Module (BCM) will interpret this start as a vehicle theft and disable the fuel injectors.

CORRECTION
A minor wiring modification may be made to allow the vehicle to be started remotely. This modification includes adding a switch to allow the customer to select “ON” to disable Passlock or “OFF” for normal Passlock operation.

CAUTION: When this modification is performed and the switch is set to the ON position, the theft deterrent feature will be disabled. When the theft deterrent is disabled the SECURITY or THEFT telltale will light up indicating that the theft deterrent system is NOT functioning.

PASSLOCK MODIFICATION
Refer to appropriate GM service manuals and/or SVMQP Electrical Guideline Manual for instruction on splicing and electrical connections.
1. Select a suitable on-off switch (see note below) which will be used to disable/
enable the Passlock System. Mount the switch in a location such that it is
accessible to the driver and will not interfere with normal vehicle operation.
NOTE: This is an extremely low current circuit (approx. 7mA), it is therefore very important that a high quality, low energy, fast acting switch be utilized
for this application.
2. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position.
3. Locate the Main Ignition Switch Harness. GM's Passlock System wires exit the Ignition Switch Tumbler together and then join with the Main Ignition Switch Harness. (See http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/ or http://64.85.6.118/diagrams/diagrams.asp and select your Make, Model and Year for wire colors and clues on the quickest way to access these wires.)
4. Locate the Yellow Passlock Data Wire which is included in a bundle of three tiny (20 GA) wires wrapped in friction tape.
Cut this wire and splice a 0.5mm2 (20 GA) yellow wire to each end of the cut wire.
Keep wire length to a minimum. Route modification wires clear of moving parts.
Connect the yellow wires to the switch such that the contacts are OPEN when the switch is in the ON position.
5. Turn modification switch to the OFF postion (contacts closed).
6. Start vehicle to verify normal operation. If engine “cranks but will not start"
recheck the switch position (contacts should be closed), wire connectors and
modification wiring.

SWITCH OPERATION

To enable remote start:
Start the engine with the ignition key (modification switch must be in the OFF
position). Turn modification switch to the ON position (contacts open). The
SECURITY or THEFT telltale will light up indicating that the Passlock System is inoperative.
Once the SECURITY or THEFT telltale has been on for at least 5 seconds the vehicle can be turned off and then remotely started.

To disable remote start:
The Passlock System can be reactivated by turning the modification switch OFF
(contacts closed). Vehicle can either be running or off when this is done.

Please note that the VCM/PCM will record Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) related to the security system when the modification switch is in the ON position (circuit open). This is due to the way that the VCM/PCM interprets this condition.

NOTICE
Any condition which removes battery power from the Vehicle Control Module/Powertrain Control Module (VCM/PCM) (e.g. dead battery, disconnected harness connectors, etc.) will prevent the vehicle from being restarted. If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not start” symptom, place the modification switch in the OFF (contacts closed) position. This will reactivate the Passlock System and allow the vehicle to be started with the ignition key.

Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club:smokin:

rputnam

03-05-2006, 05:30 PM

I have a used 99 Astro Van purchase 3 years ago from a dealer without a pass key. The van will start and run but I always noticed the "Security" light come on. My problem is that if I turn the vehicle off it will not re-start until the passing of time. (I guess the 10-minutes I read so but about).

The yellow data wire trick did not work. I cut it will with the motor running and the light came on but would do re-start until I connected the wire and waited. Then it would.

It seems I will have to have the BCM replaced with new passkey and then disable the "feature". I would hate to trade it off to some other fellow as it has taken me 2 years to come across your thread with the obbious problem.

Any other ideas?

rputnam

03-05-2006, 05:54 PM

Looks like the 1st one did post....more details
Thanks to this thread a 2 year old '99 Astro Van mystery is solved. I noticed the "Security" light on sometimes but the van always started.

My problem is I never received the "Pass Key" when I purchased the vehicle used from a dealer, just hardware store type keys. The vehicle starts everyday unless I turn the vehicle off and try to re-start right away. It seems to be more of a problem the last year.

I tried the yellow data wire cut with the engine running and the security light off. The light came on as described but the van would not start. I reconnected the wire and let the 10 minutes pass and it started. I tried disconnectong and re-connecting as described but the light never goes off once it is on.

I guess I need to purchase a new system complete with pass key and then apply the fix. Any other ideas

ponchonutty

03-15-2006, 10:41 AM

Guys, Passkey 1 and 2 systems can use regular keys. The Passkey 3 or 3+ systems can't. Inside the ignition on PK1,2 systems there are tiny magnets that operate the security system. Most of the time those wear out or move to where they won't activate the needed resitance for the BCM to read. The only way to fix that is to install a new decoder/ignition module or to use resistors in between the yellow and black or orange/black wires.

reydemx

06-04-2006, 12:35 AM

how u doin guys, i have a 1998 v6 malibu 115,000 miles. I had the Theft System problem where you have to wait 10 minutes to start, it lasted about a week. Now the car wont start, well it stays on for a second and shuts off but this time the Theft System light does not come on. Do you guys think if i did the toggle switch solution it would work? thanks for the help

ponchonutty

06-05-2006, 05:49 PM

yes it could but you need to diagnose what's actually at fault.

hassanr2000

06-07-2006, 07:59 PM

I’ve been reading up on how to disable the Passkey II alarm system (by cutting the yellow wire [data wire for Passlock system] and installing a toggle switch) but the information was for a Malibu and Oldsmobile. Does anyone know the wire color and its location for a 98 Buick Regal 3.8l. My car is like a reoccurring bad nightmare. It seems like every three weeks now the car just cut off on me while I’m driving, thank God for Triple A. Took it to the dealer, and low and behold they said the computer read code # 1626 (ignition cylinder) and suggested that I replace it for a cost of $545. The other 3 times that the car cut off on me, I had it towed to my mechanic who got the car started without replacing the ignition cylinder. This causes me to believe that the problem is the alarm system. Can anyone help

raycorri

06-08-2006, 11:36 AM

Now the car wont start, well it stays on for a second and shuts off but this time the Theft System light does not come on. Do you guys think if i did the toggle switch solution it would work?

If you can't get your car to start, then the toggle switch will not help you. The car needs to be running when you put the switch in "disable" mode or "cut the data wire".

Ray

raycorri

06-08-2006, 11:53 AM

I’ve been reading up on how to disable the Passkey II alarm system (by cutting the yellow wire [data wire for Passlock system] and installing a toggle switch) but the information was for a Malibu and Oldsmobile. Does anyone know the wire color and its location for a 98 Buick Regal 3.8l.

Does your key have a small chip in it? If I'm not mistaken, your car has Passkey/VATS technology, not Passlock technology. Here is the link for your wire colors. Click on Buick on the left and then select Regal.
http://64.85.6.118/diagrams/diagrams.asp

Here is a specific "how to" for VATS bypass.
http://vats.likeabigdog.com/

This new product is great and easy, but pricey if you have to buy the whole set. Maybe call the number listed to see if you can buy the specific one that you need.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LOCKSMITH-VATS-SECURITY-BYPASS-KIT-for-GM_W0QQitemZ4645273886QQcategoryZ33720QQssPageName ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ray

ponchonutty

06-09-2006, 08:52 PM

MalibuBob

06-10-2006, 12:35 AM

Anyone know if this method works on an '05 Malibu LS?

raycorri

06-13-2006, 06:22 PM

Anyone know if this method works on an '05 Malibu LS?

2005 Malibu Classic-- Passlock 2---- Yes

2005 Malibu Maxx-- Passkey 3 Transponder-- No

Just remember, this can void your warranty!

Ray

hassanr2000

06-14-2006, 03:04 PM

ponchonutty

06-18-2006, 09:41 AM

Sorry, without having the car in my hands at the time it does it, I can't say what could the problem be. I had an older Caddy that would shut down if you went a constant 40-50 mph. Above or below that it would be fine. Ended up being a rotted battery cable.

When it comes to electronics, it can be a number of things being the culprit.

hassanr2000

06-18-2006, 12:25 PM

Sorry, I have a 98 Buick Regal 3.8l

MT-2500

06-18-2006, 12:40 PM

Well, I really don't know what is going on with that car. The car just stopped running again. The dealer said that it is the ignition control module and that it would cost $454. When the car cut off the other three previous times I 'm almost certain that my mechanic replaced the ignition control module (twice) and told me to take it to the dealer ther next time the car cut off because he don't know how to correct what is really wrong with the car. Can anyone offer any insight?

If it is at the dealer and he has found the problem let him have at it.
The only thing I would check out is.

Tip on going to the dealer
Ask that only a factory certified gasoline engine performance specialist work on your car.
Not all dealerships are concerned with how repairs are dispatched, and not all dealership techs bother to take advantage of the training offered by Factoty (the vast majority of which is paid training). If the dealer is uncooperative, ask for your money back and call around for a dealer that will accommodate you.

Good Luck
MT

MalibuBob

06-18-2006, 06:14 PM

2005 Malibu Classic-- Passlock 2---- Yes

2005 Malibu Maxx-- Passkey 3 Transponder-- No

Just remember, this can void your warranty!

Ray

Mine is an '05 Sedan, not the Maxx, but I'm going to assume that doesn't make any difference in this case.
Guess I need to go buy a few $$$ spare keys!

Thanks!

Kevro869

07-14-2006, 08:31 PM

I just insert the key into the ignition by itself, i.e., no keyring weighing it down. Haven't had any problems since...

ponchonutty

07-14-2006, 10:37 PM

I just insert the key into the ignition by itself, i.e., no keyring weighing it down. Haven't had any problems since...
There might be something here. It seems that the highest failure is with women. The only thing they've seen much the same is HUGE keychains or many keys and stuff on there. They think that weight causes the failure.

haligantruckie

07-16-2006, 07:13 PM

I just want to be sure on the correect fix to my car problems. I have a 1998 malibu with the 2.4 L 4 cyl and 130,000miles. Sometimes when you get in to start it the theft deterrent light flashes and the car will not start. Had it to a dealer and he said it was the tumbler for the theft sys. I assume that is in the ignition switch. Usually after 10-20 min the car will start. Will cutting the yellow wire/switch insertion work or do i have to do something else. PLEASE HELP Thanks

ponchonutty

07-16-2006, 08:49 PM

Nope, you have the classic PK2 failure.

Sayguh

07-16-2006, 11:51 PM

2002 Chevy Malibu, I've had the theft light problem a lot and now I have a new problem and I'm not sure if it's related. Occationally I'll go to turn on the car and it won't start, but not only that, none of the gauges show anything (0 fuel, 0 rpm, 0 everything) but the car is getting power. (CD player works, fans work, dome light, head lights). When it does work, the theft light is usually on, and while driving all the gaugess will occationally turn off and turn back on arond 10 min later. Is this theft system problems? What could it be? PLease e-mail me.

Youssef_Bagoulla@hotmail.com

dalvarez46

07-19-2006, 10:18 PM

I wish I could provide you with some positive or helpful information for your passlock system. I had a 2002 Malibu LS and experienced the same exact problem. I had it towed, several times (I thought AAA was going to drop me at one point). In fact, the local tow truck driver knew me and asked how my roomate and family were b/c of his frequent visits. The local chevy dealer told me the first time I had it towed, that it was the computer and a module had to be replaced. They said if this happened again, the computer would need to be replaced. Well, it happened again and I was told this time that there was an update the computer needed and it should be ok. Then it happened again. I bought a honda 3 days later. Prior to my recent purchase, I had always had chevys, with minimal problems. The malibu I owned was a nightmare. In addition to the passlock system, the breaks and usually rotors required frequent replacing and usually started shaking and vibrating after 3,000 miles, but usually they said the breaks were fine so I would drive it like this. $1700 went to fixing an internal dex-cool leak. I replaced the ignition switch and ignition cylinder 2x. I'm really sorry to hear of your problems with your malibu, in the end I had to get rid of mine. The most frustrating part wasn't so much the car being so problematic, it was Chevrolets refusal to recognize any of these problems which I think sadly has cost them much business.

ponchonutty

07-26-2006, 10:46 AM

This is what I've found out and I've read the service manuals, and it sure seems doable.

Connect a resistor that would be within the normal range for the passlock system......

1. Attempt to start car; it will crank and fail, with the security light flashing. Leave the ignition on for 10 minutes, until the security light goes out.

2. Repeat step 1, two more times.

3. Car should now have learned its new key cylinder, or in this case, new resistor.

Sayguh

07-26-2006, 12:46 PM

I don't know about the resistor trick, i just cut the passlock wire and put a switch in. I've even unplugged my battery for a few hours, and switched the switch to enable it. turned the car on, and then disabled while the car is running. It's easy to do, skill level 1 i'd say. You just need wire strippers (a knife could do it) and a switch from radio shack. I soldered long wires to the switch and then just wire knoted it to the other ends of the security wire. I'm sure you could do it with out soldering, just loop the wire in the hole that comes on the switch.

ponchonutty

07-26-2006, 09:44 PM

Yes but the switch is totally unnecessary. With this resistor constantly grounded to the "input" wire on the PK2 system, it'll always work. There's no reason to flip a switch.

Sayguh

07-27-2006, 08:18 AM

Do you have any documentation on it? And also what resistor value is in the proper range? Has anyone else tried this?

ponchonutty

07-29-2006, 08:32 AM

I've talked to a few other remote start installers that have done this to vehicles that are had the security light comming on even before they did a remote start or other installs. The procedure I listed is what you have to do when you replace the ignition cylinder.

britchick

08-05-2006, 04:24 PM

HI I am having the same problem as most it seems with the Malibu pass lock. I went to start up the car this morning and the Theftloc light is on and car will not start. I have cleaned the key, left key on for 10 minutes, unlocked the doors with the key etc etc and nothing is working. I called chevy and they want to toe it in and in a not so nice way told them unless they wre going to pay for it heck no. There are to many others having the same problem can anyone else tell me another idea plz i am going nuts over this

ponchonutty

08-07-2006, 10:26 PM

leaving the car sit for 15 minutes usually does the trick.

mdmjcc2

09-06-2006, 11:02 AM

MT-2500

09-06-2006, 11:20 AM

HELP!

I am new to this forum, but have already found it very helpful.

I too have a continuing Passlock system problem. It usually takes me 20 minutes to get my car started after the Theft System light comes on.

BUT, I have a new problem - both last night and again this morning, I started the car and about a minute into driving - the theft system light went on!

Will my car stop while I am driving? Will I be left in the middle of the highway?

Has anyone experienced this problem? What do I do?

Thanks!

Welcome to AF on your first post.

I will give you a hint. If the light is on you will have a code set that will point you to the problem.
You need to get codes checked and post codes and.
It would be better to start a new post on you problem in the proper forum.
And give us all of the info you can.

Tips on getting a good answer to your questions.
People trying to answer your question do not have a crystal ball.
So give them all of the info you have like year make and model and engine and transmission.
Also service cars engine and transmission service history or any recent repairs or problems.
Also a good description of your problem and what it is doing or not doing.
If you have codes give up the code no.
And remember a code does not say replace the part but only points to the problem that you have to check out.
So to better help you give up all of the info you have on it.
MT

mdmjcc2

09-06-2006, 11:39 AM

MT-2500

09-06-2006, 11:55 AM

Thank you. I thought I was posting to the proper group - since my problem is with the passlock system.

And I don't understand the hint - I don't understand about codes.

As I said - I have had the same problem - having to wait 20 minutes to start my car - but I asked why the theft system light went on and stayed on after the car started.

Where and how would you suggest I post this question on the forum?

Thanks

If the anti theft light is on you will have a code set in the body computer.
You need to get tthe code checked with a body computer capable scanner.
Good repair shop or dealer can check it for you
This post is old but you can read threw itfor info on it.
But You should start a fresh post on your car and problem.
To many different people on one post can get confusing with two many different answers.

You need to go to the forum of the car you have and look for the New Tread button upper left side and start a new post for your problem.
MT

felixthecat

09-13-2006, 09:14 PM

felixthecat

09-13-2006, 09:17 PM

ponchonutty

09-15-2006, 10:26 PM

Make sure to have a battery jumper or charger ready because the POS oem battery won't hold up to that.

ZMore

09-18-2006, 07:47 AM

My security light comes on and disables my car about once a year. Bypassing the system sure sounds like the way to go. I have found that cleaning the ignition switch with electronics cleaner fixes the problem until ignition gets dirty inside again. To clean ignition: wrap key with very thin paper or cloth, soak it with electronics cleaner and insert key and leave it in a few minutes. Remove key and cloth/paper and it will be black from dirt, etc. This has always fixed my problem until it gets dirty again. Takes about a year for it to happen again.

Important: Use tissue paper that will not come apart when wet with cleaner. I use the paper they put in some boxes of new shoes. You can buy the cleaner at large retail stores like WM.

I figure my car has to be similar to many other GM vehicles. I have never had any parts replaced concering this.

ponchonutty

09-18-2006, 08:06 PM

Using compressed air works as well too but eventually the magnets inside either wear out or move making the whole system dead therefore needing to be bypassed or repaired.

davedj

10-08-2006, 12:58 PM

Just wanted to thank you, this bypass works great. The only problem that someone may encounter is if your battery goes dead, you need to have that lock cylinder work "one more time" to start the car, then disconnect it again. It needs to set that code to take the system off line. I did it for a friends car that was acting up. You can take it a step further and pull the dash and remove the bulb for the light too.

Thanks,

Dave Stierle
Chief Automotive Instructor
Automotive Training Center

ponchonutty

10-11-2006, 08:25 PM

dbeale

10-13-2006, 03:04 PM

ponchonutty

10-14-2006, 02:02 PM

To start with I have a 2001 Impala with NO chip in my key. I have read how to disable the passlock security after having the car running. Is there any way to temporary bypass the THING when it won't start without having to have the security light On all the time by using the cutting of the yellow wire trick? i.e. instant start!

Right. No PK1 or PK2 system has a "chip" in the key. It's all in the lock mechanism itself. It uses cheap little magnets inside it. Usually they get cruddy or even move if the cyl. is worn enough to rub up against them. That's why the problem is always constant.

PK3 vehicles like most of the newer Caddy's, and brand new GM vehicles do have a "chip" in the head of the key. You don't see it but there is one.

If you do what I did in my previous post you'll eliminate the magnets completely. Once you do it and it starts, it should be fine every time.

Admiral Michael

10-21-2006, 04:03 PM

randy78

11-06-2006, 02:30 PM

Right. No PK1 or PK2 system has a "chip" in the key. It's all in the lock mechanism itself. It uses cheap little magnets inside it. Usually they get cruddy or even move if the cyl. is worn enough to rub up against them. That's why the problem is always constant.

PK3 vehicles like most of the newer Caddy's, and brand new GM vehicles do have a "chip" in the head of the key. You don't see it but there is one.

If you do what I did in my previous post you'll eliminate the magnets completely. Once you do it and it starts, it should be fine every time.

what ?

i was always told that passkey is with resistor in the key and passlock is with resistor in the cylinder only

what gives ?

ponchonutty

11-07-2006, 09:29 PM

what ?

i was always told that passkey is with resistor in the key and passlock is with resistor in the cylinder only

what gives ?
I think you have the VATS system mixed up with these newer systems. VATS had that chip you could actually see in the metal shaft of the key. The new PK3 keys use a chip that's embedded into the black head of the key.

kabrown

12-18-2006, 05:07 PM

You may have code #1626 but your car shutting off while driving isn't a symptom of it. Once your car successfully starts, VATS or Passlock can't shut it back down. You have something else going on as well.

Doing some research on my exact same problem I found this thread, but this post from ponchnutty really worried me. I have a Malibu LS 2001 and it has been having problems to start ... "Theft System" light on dash. Nevertheless, it has also ocurred to me like 6 times that the car is already running, I'm driving and suddenly it just dies. I put in Neutral and the car starts just fine! ... do you think it may be a problem with the auto-tranny? I am wondering if the computer keeps a log of all error messages ... just to make sure if it's passlock or other system the one with the problem.

Thanks for any comments on this.

ponchonutty

12-21-2006, 08:46 PM

Yes, any and all error codes will be stored but again, if the car just dies as you drive, it isn't a security issue. My guess would be a loose wire or connection somewhere. It could even be as easy as a loose/dirty battery cable. GM did have major issues with battery cables and batteries. The leads on the cables were too long and would crack the leads on the battery causing acid to leak inside the cables and rotting them out.

cj1414

02-22-2007, 02:09 PM

I assume you mean cutting the wire while the engine is running? Yeah, I had already made my modification before I found the UIB(Upfitter Integration Bulletin). It would have saved me some gas $. It's nice to have this bulletin as confirmation. I also wired my toggle backwards from the way it suggests. (On for Passlock Enable---Off for Passlock Disable.) Either way, it works.

Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club :smokin:

hey Ray-

Gosh i wish i would have found this website sooner as i just had my Alero taken to the shop today for this very same non-starting problem. I am going to print of f some things from here and take it to the dealer later this afternoon and show them all of this. I wonder what kind of reaction i will get? Well i know where to go if i have a future problems...thanks :)

CJ

gherikill

05-08-2007, 06:47 PM

HEY TRY TO RESET YOUR SYSTEM .
THIS HOW YOU DO IT .
1ST PUT KEY IN SWITCH
2ND TURN TO ACC LET IT STAY ON OF 11 MINS.
TURN IT OFF AND BACK ON TO ACC FOR 11 MINS.
TURN IT OFF AND BACK ON TO ACC FOR 11 MINS.
IT TAKES ABOUT 33 MINS TO COMPLETE P.S. DO NOT TURN
THE CAR ON ALL THE WAY JUST TO THE ACC WHEN TRYING TO RESET . AFTER THE 33 MINS IT'S OK TO START. YOU JUST RESET THE
SECURITY SYSTEM........... EMAIL fvalle@houston.rr.com

Has anyone tried this? Does it really work?

MT-2500

05-08-2007, 07:17 PM

if that is what the systems needs it will work.
It is a relearn procedure for when the body or anti theft modules are replaced or it has lost it memory.
But it is key off to on not key off to acc for 10 or more minutes and the key off and repeat key on 2 more times.
You will need a good batery or a charger hooked up for the total 30 minutes key on.

gherikill

05-08-2007, 09:59 PM

You will need a good batery or a charger hooked up for the total 30 minutes key on.

Even if you turn off the radio and fans? Will it really drain the battery? Would it be safe to do the procedure then jump start the vehicle?

ponchonutty

05-10-2007, 08:07 AM

gherikill

05-10-2007, 10:12 AM

It's never recomended to jump a car. It'd be better to put a battery charger on it when you go to start the car. Now, if your PK2 system is at fault and stays at fault the relearn won't help you. The same thing is if it's intermittant (like most are).

So if the problem is intermittant - which I think it is. Will reomving the battery negative terminal for 10 seconds clear the light until the problem starts again?

I can't stand the light but don't really want to shell out $400 for a repair that will just turn off a light. I have not had anyproblems starting the car.

slls

05-10-2007, 03:12 PM

So if the problem is intermittant - which I think it is. Will reomving the battery negative terminal for 10 seconds clear the light until the problem starts again?

I can't stand the light but don't really want to shell out $400 for a repair that will just turn off a light. I have not had anyproblems starting the car.

Black tape, I got rid of my 04 malibu orange MPH always on. It is there because you can change it to KM through the DIC.

gherikill

05-10-2007, 04:36 PM

Black tape, I got rid of my 04 malibu orange MPH always on. It is there because you can change it to KM through the DIC.

Thats good but now I have to figure out how to take off the screen that protects the instrument panel.

slls

05-11-2007, 12:03 PM

Thats good but now I have to figure out how to take off the screen that protects the instrument panel.

I put right over the shield, when the day comes that the cluster needs work then I will put it directly on the panel. Works for me.

lboggie36

05-14-2007, 11:11 PM

will this work with04 chevy venture?

slls

05-15-2007, 06:50 PM

will this work with04 chevy venture?

Will what work?

lboggie36

05-15-2007, 09:52 PM

i would like to know how to disable the passlock system in an 04 chevy venture and was wondering if the passkey 1 and 2 are simmilliar to the 3 or it is totally different?I've been using the hanes schematic but it's not giving me enough info can anyone help?

lboggie36

05-15-2007, 10:02 PM

how do you bypass the pk3 system on 04 venture?

slls

05-16-2007, 12:10 PM

how do you bypass the pk3 system on 04 venture?

Is it PK 111+, is there a + on the metal part of the key near the plastic. If it is there is a transponder in the plastic part.

ponchonutty

05-18-2007, 07:42 AM

yeah, the PK3 is totally different. I think usually though the dealer changes out the decoder that's attached to the ignition switch. If you take your shroud off around the column, you'll see it right next to the ignition switch. It even says pk3 right on it.

lboggie36

05-20-2007, 07:37 PM

it only has pk3 on the key.

lboggie36

05-20-2007, 07:39 PM

IS there a way to disable the passkey system?

slls

05-21-2007, 12:40 PM

IS there a way to disable the passkey system?

Try here, PK 111 also has a transponder, not easy to bypass.
http://www.designtech-intl.com/accessories.asp

fisherdm

06-13-2007, 05:11 PM

I have a 1997 Chevy Malibu 3.1L. No black chip on the key, no alarm system, no auto start system. I have experienced the problem of my Malibu not starting in that it will start and then die immediately. It did this once in 2004, once in 2006 and twice over the past month which now has me concerned. The only time I noticed the theft light was today. Even when I took the key out the theft light stayed on. As I sat for a bit I tried to start it a few times w/o success. After sitting for a bit I noticed the theft light went off. The key was in the ignition but in the off position. Once I noted the theft light was off I turned the key and the car started and stayed started.

I have read through the entire thread and I am a bit confused. I have read about bypassing by cutting a yellow wire while the car is running and about magnets in the lock cylinder being worn out. I know it will cost more to buy the part than bypass but will just replacing the ignition lock cylinder fix the problem just the same? Chiltons manual makes the removal/installation appear straightforward and the part looks like it is about $125 which is a reasonable price if I can do it myself and save labor at the dealer.

Also, how does the the old key still work after the ignition lock cylinder is replaced?

ponchonutty

06-15-2007, 04:07 PM

fisherdm, sorry but your BCM is bad. It's not the PK system although it could be on its way out too. I had a '01 S10 in the shop for the same thing. The security light would be lit even when the key was removed. If you unplugged the BCM it'd go out and you could get the car to start when you plugged it back in. Then, a few times later it'd lock up once again. After doing some scans it was found out the BCM was bad. After $423 in buying a new BCM, it was fine. That's been about 3 months ago.

pairejohn

07-02-2007, 12:43 PM

Great thread great advice H ave 2002 malibu had problems with pass lock system had to have car towed to dealer in 2006 new ignition switch and some sort of control module don't remember excatly what the called it said they replaced. Last week car died again crank no start. had car towed to local service station. They claimed car started when it arrived. Station said battery was week and should be replaced had battery replaced and a relearn on security system. Next day car ran fine no problems. Second day ready to go to work car would not start same problem crank no start. Found this web site left battery disconnected over night next morning reconnected battery car started right up. Followed instructions and disabled passlock cut yellow wire. Did not bother with toggle switch I am not worried anyone will steal my car. No starting problems last 4 days Finnaly I think problem is fixed for good.

Thanks again raycorri

slls

07-02-2007, 12:58 PM

bringit1605

07-03-2007, 12:58 PM

well hello. i finally signed up because this site seems very thorough on what i am looking for.
I have a 2001 Malibu (4 door sedan 6 cyl 3.4 liter)with wouldn't you know it,the same problems. I have done this ACC thing too many times and now "when" the car starts i usually incure other lights being on, the radio/clock doesnt work, ac and heater and power windows and locks dont work and daytime running lamps. takes about 2 minutes and they kick on, but windows take up to 10 minutes.
i contacted the dealer i purchased and they said they have to hook up to diagnostic ($40) to make sure what it is but the service man said more likely it is the ignition switch passlock($300). what do you guys think?
i have a mechanic friend who is checking on it today and said he could do the fix if it was the above mentioned.
i sprayed my ignition with electrical cleaner about 5 hours ago when out and it started and everything worked but the check engine light and theft system lights are a steady on(not flashing). how do i reset this stuff? and should i even?
any help is appreciated.
also, what is this black chip on the keys people are talking about? if i have a passlock should i have a black chip? could that be the problem then?

ponchonutty

07-04-2007, 12:27 PM

The toggle is for easy rearm, if you disconnect the battery you will need to do the yellow wire cut again, with engine running.
Yep, if you just simply cut the yellow wire and didn't use the resistor method, if the battery is replaced or dies, the car will never start until it "sees" the correct code again.

This is true for the toggle switch too. The only way the toggle will work is if the rest of the system still works. The problem is that normally the decoder in the ignition switch fails so all you are doing is putting the car in "fail, bypass mode". So, if the decoder competely fails, you have to jump or change the battery and you try your toggle switch, the car still won't start because it'll never get the correct code. This is why using the resistor method is 99% failsafe.

ponchonutty

07-04-2007, 12:29 PM

bringit1605

07-04-2007, 01:05 PM

lboggie36

07-04-2007, 10:26 PM

is there anyone know how to disable the pk3 system in a 04 venture and if so please give me info?

bringit1605

07-06-2007, 09:03 AM

MT-2500

07-06-2007, 09:31 AM

i was told at one of these forums ( i dont think it was this one) to contact cac@chevrolet.com and complain. has anyone else done this? i sent them the same email everyday for 4 or 5 days and recieved a response. I am wondering if what i recieved was a typical response or if they might actually do something.

Try the 800 customer service no in your owners manual.
Also your dealer service department may be able to help.
They will not go for a disable but may have some ideas on how to fix it.
Good luck
MT

juleeanna_05

07-13-2007, 09:37 PM

will it work with a 1998 oldmobile cutlass?

ponchonutty

07-15-2007, 10:40 AM

the electrical cleaner did a lot of good. well temporary. it has worked ever since, but i feel that i will have to have it replaced. but what is this black chip on the keys they are talking about, does that signify anything about the theft system not reading my key right?
If you have a black chip in your keys (you can see a little pellet in the shaft, close to the head) you have the oldest version of the PK system. That pellet you see is actually just a resistor. There's only like 15 different values they used. When you insert the key, 2 fingers touch that pellet. One on one side and one on the other. Then the BCM reads the code.

One of the common failures is gunk in the ignition so squirting anything sometimes can work. Mostly just compressed air is all you need. The most common problem is the wires inside the column break. For that you either need to replace the ignition lock or bypass the system using a resistor with the matching resistance.

ponchonutty

07-15-2007, 10:44 AM

is there anyone know how to disable the pk3 system in a 04 venture and if so please give me info?
I haven't figured out anything as of yet. That system uses a transponder setup so there's no mechanical parts to bypass. The most common problem with that is the decoder ring that's around the ignition fails. Replacing that is usually all that is needed.

ponchonutty

07-15-2007, 10:44 AM

will it work with a 1998 oldmobile cutlass?
Yes, you have the PK2 system so doing the trick of cutting the yellow wire and putting a resistor between that and the ground will work.

ebilartninja

07-23-2007, 01:56 AM

Yes, you have the PK2 system so doing the trick of cutting the yellow wire and putting a resistor between that and the ground will work.
Will cutting the yellow wire and putting the resistor between work for Passlock 1 also? And what if you can't get the car started at all? What is a normal range of resistance? We were considering just started at the minimum resistance and going up, because we can't really get the car to stay cranked due to the passlock killing the fuel.:runaround:

EDIT: BTw this is for 97 Grand am GT

ponchonutty

07-23-2007, 08:49 AM

Nope, sorry. I haven't been able to try to bypass the PK1 systems. They are really wierd in the wiring. I know back years ago they were a major PITA to bypass for remote starters. I had a call on one about 6 weeks ago and I tried for about 2 hours to bypass it but couldn't get it to work. Not sure if it was me or the car. I don't think I was getting the bulb check wire to work properly. Read this link and it'll help you out. http://www.directeddealers.com/manuals/ig/accessories/2555111_555T_Installation_Guide.pdf You can take this info and try it out.

ebilartninja

07-23-2007, 12:58 PM

ponchonutty

07-23-2007, 09:57 PM

ebilartninja

07-23-2007, 11:31 PM

well, you can't install a remote starter either unless this thing works at least 75% of the time because you'll need to get the resistance right. I meant to read and study that diagram to understand how the system works and may be how to bypass it.

(this is sorta copy/pasted from here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4864248#post4864248))
Well my roommate and I fooled around with it today, and we finally got it to crank! Several times. It wouldn't start EVERY time, though. In fact more times than not it wouldn't start at all, it would turn over and then just die. The THEFT SYS light was of course on. The only thing we did different was use a different key. The key we were trying the past couple days wasn't the one I've been using the past year or so, but once we went back to using that key it cranked every so often. We did get a reading, finally, 7.95 kW. We had tried many times before to get one but it turns out his ohmmeter was fuxxed. Hahaha. So we went and bought a new one and finally got that reading. We tried soldering the resistors together to that resistance and put them in there and the car would crank every so often, really no different than when it wasn't there.

Anyway since I CAN eventually get it to crank now, and can get a reading, would I be able to get the remote start? I guess I could call ahead of time and let the installer know the situation, or maybe try to install it myself. Anyone know how much the parts/labor run ?:shakehead

ponchonutty

07-24-2007, 08:21 AM

Nope, most shops won't touch it unless it'll start and run on its own. Labor and such I'm sure it'll be 2x more because of the known issues.

Rhuby

07-29-2007, 01:51 AM

I've had the "theft system" problem for years with my 99 chevy malibu. I found this forum while searching for a solution to my problem- saw a solution, mulled it over for a few weeks, got stuck in parking lots in the 100 degree weather 3 times in one day, and the next day I did the fix.

Clipped the yellow wire with the car running, turned the car off, soldered a 3 dollar on/off switch from the Shack, left it in the "off" position, I've been a happy guy ever since.

The funny thing is, I heard on the radio just today a guy calling in with this exact problem. The shop guys immediately knew exactly what he was talking about and said, oh yeah, that's a GM thing, don't they have a recall on that yet, we see this all the time! Then they proceeded to recommend replacing the ingnition switch and lock cylinder. Now, I looked into doing that myself and it was about $300-350 so imagine what it would cost a shop to do it.

Anyway, point being, the swith thing works great. I've even turned the passlock system on and off to see if I did the wiring right- works like a charm. A million thanks to all who have help save me hundreds of dollars and the possible safety of my family.

As a side note, taking out the ignition assembly wasn't quite as easy as they say in the pictures posted in this thread. In the 99 Malibu LS there's a plastic bracket that lies between the ignition and the radio. I had to pull the radio out and the instrument panel as well to lift the ignition up and out. I've had to do this before so I was aware of the procedure- just thought I'd warn others who are wondering why they can't pull their ignition switch out through the radio slot.

Does this mean I'm also a member of the Anti-passlock Club too? Raycorri, you're my hero- really. Thanks.

ladybug130

07-29-2007, 07:49 PM

had problem once i think you should disable, too many times will lock your trans. for good. 300-480 bucks to replace i know my mechanic told me and i even called chevy dealerships they offered the same advice.

ponchonutty

07-30-2007, 10:15 PM

Be carefull though because if your disconnect your battery or it goes dead, it'll lock you out for good. That's why doing the resistor trick will fix it for good 99% of the time no matter if the battery goes dead or not.

slls

07-31-2007, 12:07 PM

ponchonutty

08-03-2007, 09:04 AM

With the switch installed you can rearm it, and start over, if you disconnect the battery.
Yep up and until the decoder in the ignition completely takes a crap. When you "rearm" the system, all you are doing is putting it back to normal. If "normal" isn't right, the car won't start. Trust me on this.:smokin:

slls

08-03-2007, 12:01 PM

Yep up and until the decoder in the ignition completely takes a crap. When you "rearm" the system, all you are doing is putting it back to normal. If "normal" isn't right, the car won't start. Trust me on this.:smokin:

Just need to use the bypass procedure to get it running, 1/2 hour is what it takes.

ponchonutty

08-03-2007, 10:13 PM

Why waste 1/2 hour when you can permenately disable it and never have to wait again? Besides, if you can't get the correct code or ANY code to the BCM, it'll never start. Not even through the fail-enable mode which is what you are making it do. Read it up in your owner's manual. It states that you can only get it to start in the fail-enable mode so many times before you have to tow it to a dealer.

slls

08-04-2007, 12:08 PM

DOS7impala

08-05-2007, 05:57 PM

Hello,
I have a 2001 Impala 3.4. I changed the thermostat and sensor. I disconnected a couple of sensors that are between the intake man and the air box. After every thing was reinstalled I received the battery/security flashing light, the engine will turn over but will not start. The car started fine before I started the job. I am missing or not doing something correct and I could use some advice.
Done thus far:
CarQuest advised, disconnect/connect the battery, lock/unlock passenger twice, driver side once, turn off then on and start. I have locked/unlocked from the outside and in.
11 min acc. Three times
Turn to on position and waited 10, 15, and 30 min turn off then on to try to start, also from the on position to starter position w/o turning off, the security light never stopped flashing on ant attempt.
I have done the above #3 at 10 min intervals, 4 times.
I have disconnected the negative battery terminal for 15 min.
I called AutoZone (its Sunday) to borrow a code reader to see if maybe I could use it to reset and the manager told me the car needs to be running.
As of this post I have been on hold w/ Roadside Assistance for a little more than three hours.Battery at this point needs charging, after I will do the 11 min. in the on position instead of the ass. position. Will it affect the reseting of the security if I continue w/ charger connected to the battery and on the 2 amp setting?Is there something obvious that I am missing on the procedure turn the car on and wait 10 min? Do you have to be sitting in the car or can this be done through the lowered window? I would rather not say how long I have been working on this the great thermostat/security event, but I have been charging the battery as I go.

I must of spoke this situation into existence (repeated use of expletives) when I found out how unnecessarily complicated changing the thermostat was. Does Microsoft own GM?
Thanks,
P

ponchonutty

08-05-2007, 09:59 PM

The bypass does not need a code, it bypasses that. I have gone 120K and never disconnected the battery. But if by some chance you do, just rearm.
I'm sorry but you do not understand what I am saying. With this toggle switch you are not bypassing anything. What you are doing is making an open short in the decoding system. Doing so makes the car go into fail/enable mode. When you have a dead battery or for what ever reason the voltage drops to a certain level, the car will not let you start no matter what because it won't see things in the correct way. The only way you are "bypassing" it as of now is because the BCM is retaining memory and can remember there's a fault in the passlock system. Once the BCM forget that, you are going to shell out some $$.

ponchonutty

08-05-2007, 10:03 PM

DOS7impala

08-05-2007, 10:43 PM

Hello,
No, not like I should have. In the morning I will disconnect the battery then pull, clean and check every fuse. Yes, good advice (advice my grandfather would have given me) “fix it w/ a hammer” figuratively of course. I will do some tapping and shaking.
Thanks
P

slls

08-06-2007, 12:24 PM

I'm sorry but you do not understand what I am saying. With this toggle switch you are not bypassing anything. What you are doing is making an open short in the decoding system. Doing so makes the car go into fail/enable mode. When you have a dead battery or for what ever reason the voltage drops to a certain level, the car will not let you start no matter what because it won't see things in the correct way. The only way you are "bypassing" it as of now is because the BCM is retaining memory and can remember there's a fault in the passlock system. Once the BCM forget that, you are going to shell out some $$.

Whatever, case closed.

DOS7impala

08-06-2007, 03:57 PM

I must say your problem is interesting. Did you check EVERY fuse to make sure everything else is OK? Lightly bang on your dash where your ignition switch is or lightly wiggle the key when you go to start it. If it still doesn't start try going into the passlock learn sequence. It should be 10min intervals and that light should just come on and stay on when its ready. No, leaving a charger on while doing this will not cause any issues but having a real weak battery or low voltage can.
Hello,

1. All fuses checked out.
2. Manual manipulation (jiggling, shaking, or tapping) has had no affect.
3. I have gone through the 11 min. in the on position 3 times.
4. I did notice that the ignition assembly does have a small amount of play in it. The plastic ring with the writing, on the outside of the assembly also has play in it.
5. I have focused on the 10 min reset time, repeating the procedure many times.

I am not a fan of coincidence. It is hard for me to believe that the security system goes on the fritz as I finish the thermostat job. I understand that working with electronics this can happen.

Is the replacement of the ignition assembly available only at the dealer?
The resetting is not working, what else could the problem be?

Thanks
P

Update:

Called a mechanic that I know as was told to try, disconnect the battery pause reconnect, from the outside lock/unlock passenger door one time then turn on and wait 10 min, start. No joy. Called him back he said the dealer can reset it, and or replace the alarm. Just under $600.00 for the alarm. This is Insane. How can I trust the dealer not to sell me an alarm if mine is not truly bad? Ask for the old part then what?

ponchonutty

08-06-2007, 05:05 PM

Hello,

1. All fuses checked out.
2. Manual manipulation (jiggling, shaking, or tapping) has had no affect.
3. I have gone through the 11 min. in the on position 3 times.
4. I did notice that the ignition assembly does have a small amount of play in it. The plastic ring with the writing, on the outside of the assembly also has play in it.
5. I have focused on the 10 min reset time, repeating the procedure many times.

I am not a fan of coincidence. It is hard for me to believe that the security system goes on the fritz as I finish the thermostat job. I understand that working with electronics this can happen.

Is the replacement of the ignition assembly available only at the dealer?
The resetting is not working, what else could the problem be?

Thanks
P

Update:

Called a mechanic that I know as was told to try, disconnect the battery pause reconnect, from the outside lock/unlock passenger door one time then turn on and wait 10 min, start. No joy. Called him back he said the dealer can reset it, and or replace the alarm. Just under $600.00 for the alarm. This is Insane. How can I trust the dealer not to sell me an alarm if mine is not truly bad? Ask for the old part then what?

Yes, I hear ya. I know there's some very good dealers out there that bend over backwards to help but there seems to be more that make you bend over if you get what I mean.

As far as the ignition switch being loose, they all seem that way. Again, at this point I'd hate to tell you to replace this or that since I am unsure exactly what the problem is. My guess is that if you replaced the decoder ring in the column (the PK2 signal) that would be a good bet.

Your mechanic friend, doesn't he have a tech2 scanner like from Snap-On that'll read the code stored in the BCM? Maybe for $20 or a beer or 10 he'll come over and see what's stored in there. From that point you should be able to find out what's going on.

You could always try to do the bypass thing but it'd be a little difficult with out the car running at all.

cpoleary

08-13-2007, 04:31 PM

My car is a 2002 Malibu LS. The car will not start and the Theft System light stays on steady.

I put in a new ignition cylinder from GM. ($226.00 included $30 to re-key it to my key. The dealer said he could program the car for another $125.00 but I decided to try the 30 minute learn instead)
I put the car back together and turned the key to the run position and the Theft System light started to flash and went out after about 10 minutes
I turned the key off and waited 5 seconds and turn it back to the run position and the Theft System light stayed on steady and never went out no matter how long I waited
Called the dealer and told them I was towing it there to have them program it. The dealer said they found a loose connection at the BCM and repaired it, (for $260.00!). The dealer called and said the car started and ran for about 10 minutes and died. They say the fuel pump is bad and need to be replaced to the tune of $700.00+!!! I told them to forget that since I was still a bit certain that the Theft System could be shutting it down.
I had the car towed back to my house and low and behold, the Theft System light is still on steady! I have no idea what they did for $260.00 but I don’t think it was to program the system to the new cylinder like I asked them to do.
So my questions are:

Since the Theft System light is on steady, could this be a DOA switch or a bad BCM? Anyone have any thoughts on this? I would think that since it’s electronic that anything is possible with this
When we say the Theft system has encountered a problem and causes a no-start condition, does it shut down the fuel pump and/or the injectors? If it shuts down the fuel pump I then I’ll pass on dropping the tank and throwing more money at this POS until I get the theft system issues worked out
Once this is fixed has anyone tried a remote start bypass rather then the switch or resistor trick? Just wondering since I happen to have one for this car. ~ Although I’m leaning towards the RadShack switch install.

Thanks for reading all this, I’m interested in any and all comments.

gmhater

08-13-2007, 06:27 PM

Well, I just bypassed one the other day too. What I did was cut the yellow PK2 wire, stripped a little off of the black reference ground wire, put one lead from my ohm meter on the black ground wire and the other lead on the wire yellow wire going to the ignition switch. Then I put the car in gear and cranked it over. When you do that, the switch will send out what code it has been using. It came out to something like 6.21ohms. I then got some resistors that were about 6.25 and connected one end of the resistors to the cut yellow wire GOING to the BCM and the other end of the resistors to the ground reference wires. It started right up and the theft light went off.

Excellent idea, but the ignition switch has to be working when you make your initial resistance measurement, otherwise you get the wrong value. Did you find those resistors locally or did you have to order them? That value sounds unusual. Also, when you say "I put the car in gear and cranked it over," you don't mean literally, do you? You mean it's in park, right?

DOS7impala

08-14-2007, 12:22 AM

Hello,
To conclude:

Overheated.
Changed the thermostat and sensor (wow).
Would not start security light.
Researched and found an honest dealer.
10 min wait is correct, didn’t work.
Tow car.
Loose connection to one of the wiring harnesses! $125, ok
Leave dealer enroute to radiator specialty shop w/ car overheating, many stops.
Must leave car inside shop, bad area, not normally allowed, only place in small shop for one car, cannot make across town.
Remove and rotor rooter radiator, change one side of radiator, flush engine $235.
Get home to find the entire car cover in 1mm pellets of something very hard to remove. Two (2) days of cleaning w/ different stuff; I get it all off.
To wipe the last bit of high grade wax off of the clean running car; Priceless! It was nice to meet this forum and thanks for the fast accurate help.

Thanks
P

anloyo

08-14-2007, 03:37 PM

Will this work for a Malibu 97?

ponchonutty

08-15-2007, 10:45 PM

yep.

skulemowski

08-17-2007, 06:51 PM

MT-2500

08-17-2007, 07:06 PM

i have a 99 cavalier that I have replaced the passlock and ingnition twice and now the key is stuck and locked in the run position and radio power windows and a/c fans will not work it is like the car is not on but it starts and drives but it wont shut off i have to pull the fuel pump relay to kill the engine i know i have to replace the ignition but will the bypass work (cutting yellow wires) to get the other funtions work. :banghead:

Welcome to AF
Sounds like you are going to need more than cutting the yellow wire.

It would be better to start a new thread/post to get help on your problem.
And give all info you can.
MT

ponchonutty

08-18-2007, 10:24 PM

skule, glad to have you aboard but I too think you have something major wrong. Did you replace the ignition with GM-Delco stuff or what ever you could get at some auto parts place? There's been some issues with aftermarket ignition parts not working correctly.

The only other thing I've heard about keys being stuck to the "on" position is on some GM lines if you have a real low battery, it'll cause the ignition to stick to the "on" position. Since you say the car is running fine, I'd doubt this to be the case.

WMM

08-19-2007, 12:29 PM

Hello,

I have a 2003 Malibu, 3.1L with about 19K miles on it. A couple of weeks ago the theft system started acting up much like others have described. I go to start the car and when I turn the key to "RUN" I notice that none of the idiot lights come on and the only light displayed is "Theft System". If I try to start the car at this point it will just turn over, but not fire. If I jiggle the key around the idiot lights will come on and then the car will start and run just fine. However, it seems like most people will have a flashing "Theft System" light and mine comes on and stays on. My question to anybody kind enough to answer is do you think cutting the yellow wire on my ignition switch and installing the switch or resistor will fix my problem or do you think something else is wrong with my car?

Thank you.

MT-2500

08-19-2007, 01:09 PM

WMM

08-20-2007, 09:03 AM

Any warranty left.
If no other lights coming on.
May be a ign switch or just a wiring problem.
I would check it out first and try to find the problem.
MT

There is no warranty left. Do you have any suggestions on how I could find out if it is a wire problem or a bad ignition switch?

MT-2500

08-20-2007, 10:02 AM

There is no warranty left. Do you have any suggestions on how I could find out if it is a wire problem or a bad ignition switch?

Get a good wiring diagram and a 12 volt test light and check for 12 volt power to and from ign switch.

ponchonutty

08-20-2007, 09:45 PM

malibu_97

08-26-2007, 11:35 AM

Thank u so much i cut the yellow wire while it was running no more problems

dclark_e@yahoo.com

08-27-2007, 08:55 PM

I too was having the frustration of the 10 min. wait for GM's thief deterrent system screw-up( about twice a day!).
I read about the fix where you cut the yellow wire on the ignition switch and install a toggle switch.
I was ready to do the fix ,but I thought I would try one other wild shot. I have 2 sets of keys, 1 used 99% of the time , the other like new. I went to Lowes and had 2 new keys made from like new one.
Went to the parking lot and tried the new key. It has worked, without a single problem for 3 months now!! It may not work for you, but its worth a try ( new key $1.97) I drive a 1998 Malibu which I brought new.

ponchonutty

08-27-2007, 09:25 PM

I doubt that'll completely solve your problems. These systems seem to behave differently with heat and humidity. So, when that changes again, I bet you'll have the same problem. I hope I'm wrong though!!!

luna0755

09-02-2007, 03:11 PM

The problem I have is that my malibu will not start because of the passlock. I am not getting any fuel when I try to start the car. Is there any way to get the car started once it is in this mode ??

Yeah, I'm not so sure that the toggle switch is original equipment. As for disabling Passlock 1 or 2, it can be done fairly easily. I did this to my 2002 Olds Alero with Passlock 2. Yours is apparently Passlock 2 also according to these photos that follow. You don't have to install a toggle switch, but I would suggest it in case you go to a dealership for service and they need the Passlock re-enabled. I'm sure they will try to tell you that you shouldn't do this. You can just print out this article to educate them on their own system. The BCM is already programmed to go into "fail-enable" mode when the key reference circuit (yellow passlock wire) is broken (cut) while the engine is running. That's the key ---- while the engine is running. The security/anti-theft light will come on and stay on until the circuit is repaired. Your Passlock is now disabled. Just don't repair the circuit (reconnect the wire) unless absolutely necessary. I have read where others just tape up both ends of the cut yellow wire and leave it that way. This probably works fine, but I like the idea of being able to repair the circuit by the flip of a switch. (Just in case.)

This is the MOTOR AGE article describing "fail-enable" mode:
http://www.motorage.com/motorage/data/articlestandard/motorage/292005/169809/article.pdf
page 3, If the correct key is in the cylinder and that circuit
fails while the engine is running, this is considered a
malfunction, not a theft attempt. The “Security” light
may turn on to warn of a system malfunction, but even if
it doesn’t, a key recognition circuit failure with the proper
key in the lock will cause the TDM to enter what GM
calls a “fail-enable” mode. Essentially, the theft-deterrent
system goes offline and the engine will start and run
with any key that turns the lock.

Here are 2001 Malibu photos to help you get to the Yellow Passlock 2 wire to cut it while the engine is running. Read the directions below each photo. By the looks of these photos, you should probably go ahead and start your car with your key (no keyring or keys attached) so you won't have to figure out how to start it with the Switch in an unsecure position later in the process.

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=761&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=762&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=765&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=766&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=768&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=769&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=772&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=775&link=BULLDOG

http://www.directwholesale.net/diagrams/Images.asp?ImageID=777&link=BULLDOG

That yellow wire is the one to clip while the car is running! Incidentally, Malibus, Grand AMs and Aleros are all having the same Passlock problems. Coincidentally, we all have the same part # for the Ignition Lock Cylinder. A Passlock sensor is built into this cylinder. If this sensor goes bad, you have to replace the entire Ignition Lock Cylinder. GM is making a killing and so are the dealerships. I'm not knocking the Certified Technicians, they are just doing what they are trained to do. How can anyone deny that this part is defective? If you are tired of having to wait to start the car that you worked so hard to buy with your own money, you should be able to disable the Passlock if you want to. This is just one way to do it. Here is the Ignition Lock Cylinder part # and I hope this disablement will really help some of you.
1999 - 2004 Alero
1997 - 2003 Malibu
1999 - 2004 Grand Am

The GM part number is 12458191.

ponchonutty

09-03-2007, 11:46 AM

No. Once the PK2 system has been tripped by not seeing the correct resistance, the only way to get it to start is to get the proper resistance OR pick a resistance code out and relearn it to the BCM.

usmailman956

09-04-2007, 08:10 PM

My o3 malibu has the passlock and the theft deterent light comes on whenever it wants to while driving so far only refused to start once had to reset system 10 minutes with key on and then turn off and start car. The light stayued off for several days aftyer that now it comes on every day while driving any suggestions. Do not want a light on dash as my daughter drivers this car sometimes and would freak out

ponchonutty

09-05-2007, 06:42 PM

Yep, do the toggle switch or resistor trick that's been mentioned on here a lot!!!

8800taxi

09-26-2007, 01:14 AM

I have 2001 impala with the same problems about a year ago. I added the toggle switch and the procedure worked great. The car sat for a couple of months and ofcourse the battery died, i charged the battery and now im having the same problem again. I try to start it but nothing happens even with the toggle switch in the off or on position. The information center on the dash does not work , the interior lights and radio dont work it seems like im only getting partcial power because the windows seem to be working. When I turn the key i can hear the fuel pump working and a clicking noise coming out of the fuse box located on the driver side of the dash.

ponchonutty

10-02-2007, 09:05 AM

That sounds like either a bad ignition switch or even a bad BCM which both are very common.

Malibu_Newbie

10-23-2007, 09:09 AM

Ok I am rereading this for about the 8th time rcking my brain on how to get my car back to running without going to the dealership. I did the bypass back in Jan.-Feb. but I did not do a toggle switch or resistor I just cut and taped the wires. Which worked great until my battery died (not sure why it died). Now the car with not crank at all. The dealership said that its in failsafe mode and thats 70 to fix not including towing charges. So I am trying to come up with ideas on how to fix this at home and save some money.

Here is what I have tried so far. The key to ACC for 11 mins x 3. But after reading futher I read it is suppose to be to the ON position for 11 mins x 3. So I will give that a try. I have a new battery and a speed charger so that should not be an issue.

I tried reconnecting the yellow wires and still nothing.

I am sure there are other I have tried but I am not drawing a blank. SO does anyone know of anything else that might work. Like is there a typical range of resistor values for the anti theft that I could try to get the car to crank. Or at least make an attempt to crank. Anything to let me know that I am on the right track. Or is my only option going to the dealership (or anyone else that can reprogram the bcm whatever) and getting this reprogrammed. Is there no way to get the codes back without going to a garage to get this to work.

I have a 98 Malibu LS V6. No other issues other than this.

MT-2500

10-23-2007, 10:23 AM

Malibu_Newbie

10-23-2007, 12:43 PM

Any remote start stuff on it?
Remove toggle switch and put it back to OEM set up.
Then try relearn.
The relearn is as follows.
Clear all codes with a scanner.
Turn key on until security light goes out about 10 minutes.
Turn key back off and then on for a while and it should relearn and start.
If security light stays on after the last key on or no start
See what code the scanner resets.
And post back code.
MT
Well my coder has not pulled up anything at this point. The wires are already back together. How many times should I turn it on for?

Oh meant to add no remote starters on the car. I just did the bypass when I was having issues with the passlock.

MT-2500

10-23-2007, 12:58 PM

Well my coder has not pulled up anything at this point. The wires are already back together. How many times should I turn it on for?

Oh meant to add no remote starters on the car. I just did the bypass when I was having issues with the passlock.

Have you removed the bypass and put it back OEM?
Have you cleared codes and see if any returns?
Reread my first post on the relearn for it.

Tell us if the security light goes out after key on bulb test or just stays on.
MT

Malibu_Newbie

10-23-2007, 03:02 PM

Have you removed the bypass and put it back OEM?
Have you cleared codes and see if any returns?
Reread my first post on the relearn for it.

Tell us if the security light goes out after key on bulb test or just stays on.
MT

There are no codes when I use my code reader. I will try the relearn again (this time in the ON position and not ACC) tomorrow. My speed charger is in the husbands truck and I don't wanna kill the battery. Right now its back to being enabled. So no the light is not on. Just won't crank. Heck it does not even try to turn over. Yet everything inside the car works.

ponchonutty

10-23-2007, 03:07 PM

Well you've had the security light on for some time before and that's why you tried the bypass correct? Yes, cutting the yellow wire in 1/2 will put the car into fail-enable mode which you've found out. But, when you have to either jump the car or install a new battery the BCM resets. Now it won't start. Putting the yellow wire back together would work but only if the ignition decoder is working and it may not be.

If you need a resistance code I just did a bypass on a 2002 G-am yesterday. I put a 5320 ohm resistor on the cut end of the yellow wire going to the BCM and attached the other end to the black reference wire and also put a jumper from the black wire to chassis ground (because I have a feeling that's an issue too) Then I only had to keep the ignition on for 11 minutes and the light stopped flashing and went solid and the car started. Sometimes it take 2 or 3x though.

Malibu_Newbie

10-23-2007, 03:43 PM

Ok I just did the relearn thing (ON for 11mins x3) nothing. I hear I guess the fuel pump kick on but no turnover. I guess I am to the point to try the resistor trick and then relearn or it has to go to the shop. Because I can not think of anything else to try.

If I try to crank the car (all the way to start position and let it fall back to off) the light goes off.

I will try and see if there are any codes when hubby gets home. But thus far there has not been any codes to pull so I doubt there will be one with our code reader.

Malibu_Newbie

10-23-2007, 03:44 PM

BTW where is the BCM located at and does it have a fuse or relay that goes with it.

MT-2500

10-23-2007, 05:30 PM

Malibu_Newbie

10-23-2007, 06:28 PM

The relearn procedure is not key on three times.
The anti theft or security system does not shut down the engine starter.
If light comes on key on and then goes off ther anti thef should be working.
If engine does not crank over you have a starter or switch or battery problem.
MT

The dealership meachinic (sp) said that this particular security feature shuts down the starter etc. and that I have to get something reprogrammed to get it to work again. I have called several garages in the past few days and they call confirm the same thing.

MT-2500

10-23-2007, 07:45 PM

The dealership meachinic (sp) said that this particular security feature shuts down the starter etc. and that I have to get something reprogrammed to get it to work again. I have called several garages in the past few days and they call confirm the same thing.

My repair info does not say anything about starter disable.
But it and me have been wrong sometimes.
But.
I would test the startter circuit and make sure the starter is working.

If the security light comes on for bulb with key on and then goes out you should have a go ahead on anti theft.

wesley08

10-24-2007, 06:07 AM

I have a 99 malibu and the theft light comes on every time i try to start it. how would i by pass it can i cut the yellow wire and use a resistor if so where do i connect the rersistor at

Malibu_Newbie

10-24-2007, 06:13 AM

I have a 99 malibu and the theft light comes on every time i try to start it. how would i by pass it can i cut the yellow wire and use a resistor if so where do i connect the rersistor at

You have to have the right resistor value but yeah this is really what I would do. When I did it I just cut the wire (no resistor not toggle switch) and now I am having issue (1 year later) and the car is undrivable till I get this issue fixed. So if you have an ohm meter use it to get you resistance value.

wesley08

10-24-2007, 06:16 AM

i have ohm meter. How do i get resistance value when car won't start at all? and when i do where does the resister go 9what wires do i hook it to

slls

10-24-2007, 12:27 PM

i have ohm meter. How do i get resistance value when car won't start at all? and when i do where does the resister go 9what wires do i hook it to

Read this whole thread from the beginning and your questions will be answered.

wesley08

10-24-2007, 03:52 PM

what does BCM stand for?

Malibu_Newbie

10-24-2007, 04:12 PM

BCM: Body Control Module

Malibu_Newbie

10-24-2007, 04:13 PM

I would test the startter circuit and make sure the starter is working.

Just curious is there a way to test this at home (IE not taking it out and taking it to town) to test this?

MT-2500

10-24-2007, 07:14 PM

Just curious is there a way to test this at home (IE not taking it out and taking it to town) to test this?

Yes
Check at starter.
Make sure it is in park gear.
Jumper small wire to the battery cable post on the starter solenoid and see if starter works.
Or if you can find the small wire to sstarter solenoid you can jumper 12 volts to it for a starter test.
If starter works get a test light and see if small wire at solenoid is getting 12 volts on key on start position.
If no 12 volts go back to neutral saftey switch or ign switch and check for start position voltage.
Also check all fuses you could have blowed a fuse.
Good luck
MT

Hoppy2

11-09-2007, 02:55 PM

Will the resistor work on a 2002 Olds intrigue?

pozokopp

11-10-2007, 12:19 AM

I have read this entire thread and there is a ton of enlightening info here. I too am experiencing the passlock nightmare. the "theft system" light was on steady,cranked but no start.After trying the reset method in owners manual for passlock 2 with light remaining on and no start I began reading this thread. Since then I have tried all the methods suggested still no start. I checked the resistance from the reference wire(black) to the data wire(yellow) after cutting, I did this by turning the key to start with the vehicle in reverse. I read 1760 ohms( checked 2X) after installing the resistors(1750 measured) the light has gone out. I tried the reset/relearn steps again and still not starting. could the R value be wrong or is the problem something else, BCM maybe? Please help this is just the latest battle with this car. This is an 04 Malibu classic 2.2, auto trans, 150k, no reader so no codes, recent work: brakes, new cylinder head complete, exhuast manifold. If it is the BCM will I be able to use the relearn or does it need to go to the dealer for reset? I have not been able to get it started since the light first came on,or since the light has gone out.

ponchonutty

11-10-2007, 08:33 AM

Sounds like it could be a BCM issue since you say the theft light is now out. Is the car cranking then stalling like it's out of gas? Check to see if you have fuel at the rail by having the ignition on then pressing the valve in with a small screwdriver. Can you hear the fuel pump at all?

Hoppy2

11-10-2007, 11:56 PM

Bump.

Will the resistor mod work in an Intrigue?

ponchonutty

11-11-2007, 07:48 AM

Yes.

Hoppy2

11-11-2007, 08:00 AM

Thanks, I'll give it a go. It is to install a remote starter in it.

Hoppy2

11-11-2007, 10:21 PM

It worked, thanks kindly, Now the remote starter! Uhggg

ponchonutty

11-12-2007, 09:06 AM

Well, that's not too bad except having to do most of the wiring behind the radio! Other than that, it's a fairly easy car.

Hoppy2

11-12-2007, 09:10 AM

Any tricks to disconnecting the ignition harness from the switch? Can the harness get pulled down far enought under the dash to do the wire hookups?

ponchonutty

11-12-2007, 01:46 PM

I've never tried to do that and I doubt it can be done. I've just did all of my work behind the radio.

diavolos

11-16-2007, 10:52 AM

Hi all, I've had the passlock system problem also, and read alot on here which was a huge help. I read on here alot that one alternative fix is to get a remote starter. The only way getting a remote starter will help is if you plan to use it every time you start your car if you are experiencing passlock problems. Reason is, if you get a remote starter, the passlock wire "trio" gets wired into an alarm bypass module, which bypasses the ignition "chip" for the alarm when you use the remote, thus starting the car even if you are having passlock problems. This in no way has any effect if you use the key to turn the ignition manually, because now, you are once again turning the tumbler and using the faulty passlock "chip". Also, if you have a remote atarter, cutting the yellow wire is not an option, because it is wired into the remote starter bypass, and if you do so (which I tried), it will not let you start the car remotely, or manually. My fix was that I had my mechanic, who is awesome, get me the part, and do the job on the side for ca$h. He charged me $250 for everything, which is a steal compared to what I see on here. If cutting the yellow wire is an option for you, do it and save the cash, wish I could have

Hoppy2

11-17-2007, 07:57 AM

I did cut the yellow wire and it has nothing to do with my remote starter system. I did the resistor modification.

ponchonutty

11-19-2007, 09:42 AM

diavolos

11-19-2007, 01:53 PM

WOW, the part to fix that is only about $100. I guess he must charge by the hour and included his lunch too.

Where can you get the whole ignition, with new keys for $100?? I went to Chevy myself, and they were going to sell it to me for $150, with a municipal discount. If you think $250 is expensive, then the others on here must have gotten bent over, and raped for paying $400-$500.

ponchonutty

11-19-2007, 02:05 PM

Where can you get the whole ignition, with new keys for $100?? I went to Chevy myself, and they were going to sell it to me for $150, with a municipal discount. If you think $250 is expensive, then the others on here must have gotten bent over, and raped for paying $400-$500.

Yep they've gotten bent over all right. I've seen them on Ebay. You can even get them out of a late model at the local salvage place. The area ones here only charge about $25 and all you need is one key. Even so it's worthless to do that sort of repair because it'll happen again and again. The resistor trick is 99% effective and it only cost at most $8.00.

Hoppy2

11-19-2007, 02:08 PM

The resistor trick worked for me as well, however only cost me my time as I had a multimeter already and all the resistors I needed in my electronics repair stock. Even to purchase a pack of assorted resistors you are only talking $3.

billducat

12-09-2007, 10:48 AM

You can add me to the non-passlock members. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents into the argument to be able to disable the system as a normal user. I am a electrical technician that works for a large corporation, without going into too much detail about who I work for I deal with integrated multiple computer systems. I am usally pretty good at hacking these systems when i need to in the course of the day.
When I installed a remote car starter in 1998 pontiac grand am for my girlfriend I was aware of the passlock feature and installed the fix of a relay to bypass the key in the ignition. This worked fine for a couple of years until the remote feature stopped working. I did not want to diagnose why the remote no longer worked so i told her to live with it. Then one day she called me to tell me that the car would not start and she was stranded. With her being out of work and on dissability I could not afford to have a repair bill so I went after work to find out what the problem was.
Without going into too many details I just spent $130 of money that i could not afford, towing, 2 wks. Without a car, a small car fire. Having to diagnose a problem outside in the freezing rain and having to take time off from work to take her to doctors appointments because I did not realize that the passlock system was the cause of the system activating at the wrong time.
The car would start and after 2 sec. would stall. Not thinking that the passlock system was the cause I started cheking sensors, fuel injectors, and all others possibilties. After searching the internet I found this forum and tried resetting the passlock system which allowed the car to start.

The message that i am trying to send here is that someone mentioned "adding my name to the class action". That is probably not the best solution as a consumer. My brother (ASE certified mechanic) had the misfortune of bying a newer used impala with a 4 cylinder motor and many problems (coolant leaks, water pump, etc. ) that his final solution was to by a Ford. We can all try to sue corporations to try and make them responsible but all we can accomplish is to make a few attorneys millionaires while you pick up your free key fob at the dealer while they try to sell you a new pile of crap. The pontiac that my girlfriend owns does have 169k on but I dont know if I will be bying another gm car in the future until i can verify that they have cleaned up theire act. Can anyone say toyota.

end of rant

ponchonutty

12-09-2007, 10:23 PM

Well, I'm not sure if I'd pick Toyota as part of my defense. I mean, they did have the #2 most recalled vehicle for 2007 http://autos.aol.com/article/safety/v2/_a/top-10-most-recalled-cars/20071203102409990001

Anyhoo I understand your frustration as many on here have. I don't think it's a bad idea to get on some sort of bitch list to be handed to Gm or any other maker for that matter. You have billions spent on advertising and most of the time in those ads there's something about how reliable the vehicle is. So, the buying public believes this only to find out that soon after warranties end, there's a host of issues at hand. Why GM never fully used a transponder setup like Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda to name a few I'll never know. For years the only transponder vehicles were some of the higher end Pontiacs. Transponder systems are where the key itself has a chip inside the head of the key and the ignition has a magetic field that can read the chip. It's simular to that like what they put inside pets. Instead, GM uses a fragile by designed mechanical setup that is made to fail easily.

To add insult to injury now the newest of GM vehicles have BOTH the Pk2 and PK3 systems!!!!

Guvnuh4

12-10-2007, 02:51 PM

Well, I just bypassed one the other day too. What I did was cut the yellow PK2 wire, stripped a little off of the black reference ground wire, put one lead from my ohm meter on the black ground wire and the other lead on the wire yellow wire going to the ignition switch. Then I put the car in gear and cranked it over. When you do that, the switch will send out what code it has been using. It came out to something like 6.21ohms. I then got some resistors that were about 6.25 and connected one end of the resistors to the cut yellow wire GOING to the BCM and the other end of the resistors to the ground reference wires. It started right up and the theft light went off.

Wife's car (2001 Pontiac Grand Am) experienced the reported issue, security light flashes, starter whirrs, engine doesn't start, blah, blah, blah...

10 minute trick worked, but the wife expressed serious displeasure in having to wait (if needed). So I wanted to try this little fellow out, but I wanted to make sure that my MS Paint style wiring diagram was correct:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f77/Guvnuh4/diagram.jpg

With soldering to the data-to-bcm wire and ground

Hoppy2

12-10-2007, 02:57 PM

You want to check the resistance between the ignition side of the yellow wire and black wire. You don't have to touch the white wire. Once you find the resistance put the same value of resistors between the black wire and the non ignition switch side of the yellow wire. Solder up and seal it up and you are done. I'm not sure what wire colours are in comparison with your neutral, hot and data wires. It is a simple thing to do, but hard to get at in my car at least.

TXMAXX

12-13-2007, 05:00 PM

Hi all, I've had the passlock system problem also, and read alot on here which was a huge help. I read on here alot that one alternative fix is to get a remote starter. The only way getting a remote starter will help is if you plan to use it every time you start your car if you are experiencing passlock problems. Reason is, if you get a remote starter, the passlock wire "trio" gets wired into an alarm bypass module, which bypasses the ignition "chip" for the alarm when you use the remote, thus starting the car even if you are having passlock problems. This in no way has any effect if you use the key to turn the ignition manually, because now, you are once again turning the tumbler and using the faulty passlock "chip". Also, if you have a remote atarter, cutting the yellow wire is not an option, because it is wired into the remote starter bypass, and if you do so (which I tried), it will not let you start the car remotely, or manually.
Interesting! The only time i have had problems with starting is when i do not use my remote start. I have a Chevy Malibu Maxx 2004 with 74k miles on it. The remote start is OEM and the main reason i purchased the vehicle. The last 3 months i have not used it much as someone told me it uses more gas to start that way:banghead: . Have had the car a year and it started acting crazy :screwy: after i switched to key starts. Its very random and never occurs on cold start(1st thing in the mornining or after car has been parked for a few hours). Always when i go somewhere like grocery shopping .

FISH96

12-15-2007, 08:39 AM

GREETINGS TO ALL,
IN THE ABOVE SCHEMATIC:
IS THE IGNITION KEY IN THE IGNITION SWITCH?
IF THAT IS SO, IN WHAT POSTION IS THE SWITCH, ie, OFF,ON,ACCESSORY?

REGARDS TO ALL,
FISH96

Hoppy2

12-15-2007, 09:00 AM

When I did the bypass the key had to be in the start position. I am not sure if it will work in the On position at all.

ponchonutty

12-15-2007, 09:14 PM

Well actually to clarify this you need to CRANK over the ignition and let it rest in the ON position. During the crank is when the PK2 sends out the proper resistance.

Hark

12-15-2007, 09:50 PM

Okay - I've tried to follow thru this post to find a solution - but there are way too many pages to wade thru. My daughter's 1997 Malibu with 125000 miles on it has this problem, antitheft light blinks and it won't start, she turns the key to accessories and leaves it for a while then it will start. Last time it happened though she had to wait 30 minutes, so it's obviously getting to the point of no return. Can someone reply with the technical service bulletin site to put the toggle switch on a 97 3.1? It seems like there is a way to put in a switch instead of just cutting yellow wires. The first couple of pages of threads refer to putting in a toggle switch but it mentions 98 and newer models. There's no check engine light on when this happens, just the antitheft blinking, so I haven't taken it anywhere to check any codes.

Any help appreciated. It's been a good little car for us, but with that many miles would like to fix this before it becomes a major expense, and she drives 1/2 hour to school so it's not ideal to leave her waiting for 1/2 hour in freezing weather. Another weird thing - is this just a cold or damp weather thing? It didn't do it all summer long and now it's acting up quite frequently again.
Thanks!

Hoppy2

12-15-2007, 10:46 PM

Um, If I recall correctly the engine will not crank with the yellow wire cut on the passlock system when you turn the ignition to start.

bboyles

12-27-2007, 04:08 PM

just got my 2001 grand am from shop to have passlock system repaired. got so angry at price I had to pay I fired off a letter to Richard Wagoner, Jr. CEO of GM letting him know how disgusted that GM does not do a recall on the passlock system. hope others out there will do the same.

slls

12-28-2007, 03:28 PM

Some one claims all you have to do if you get a security light and no start. Turn the key to run, shift into neutral and it will start. I have never tried it but another poster said it also worked for him. Worth a try.

ponchonutty

12-28-2007, 11:01 PM

No, it will not start if it's already locked out when you put it into nuetral. Also, on some '98 and all the newer ones you could just cut the yellow wire while it's running and it'll start everytime until the car's battery goes dead. On '97 there's nothing that I know of on how to bypass it because part of the system goes through the instrument cluster. Sometimes it's the cluster, bcm, or decoder that can be bad.

Jemru

12-29-2007, 07:59 AM

The passlock feature has NO USE what so ever. Its made to prevent theives from starting your car without the key.

Yesteday I broke the pins in my ignition switch by accident after forcing my key out after it became stuck. Now u can start it with anything in of a keyshape such as a screw driver.

Im a fan of General Motors, they have STRONG POWERFUL engines and nice bodyies. But their electronics are MENT to fail after a certain amount of clicks 258,xxxKM is where mine is. My temp guage stopped working, abs, parkbrake, engine check, and door open light is on.

My previous 93 civic was up in its 400,000km age, buring black smoke and all that, but still ran when i started it with no dash lights.

foxtrot

01-13-2008, 12:45 PM

2002 MonteCarloSS 35,700 miles
For the past 500 miles or so Ive been having what sound like passlock trouble. But a little different than what Ive read here.
When cold it will always start, after a little while the security light comes on and ding ding ding andI look and see the volt meter reading a big fat 0 then the lights will alternate security, battery, service engine soon.
Then the volt meter with resume reading 14 volt or so and all lights will go out except the security light, for a few minutes then ding ding ding and we are at it again. Some times the traction light will come on but not very often.
A few times the car would not start untill I played with the locks on the ket fob. Once I had to wait 10 minutes to start and once I had to do the 10 minute relearn thing but most of the time it will start just the lights come on and the volt gauge goes off.
I bought a obd2 reader off e-bay and later found out it was only good for engine codes.
Im thinking of the resistor fix, but wondering if this problem could be in the BCM ?
Any thoughts???????????????????????????????????????:uh oh:

ponchonutty

01-14-2008, 07:03 AM

Sounds like you have a faulty ignition switch and not necessarly a PK2 issue.

Yello72

01-14-2008, 07:13 PM

Changed the lock cylinder and now it will crank but not start. The theft system light is flashing. I there a way to reset this. It is a 97 with a 2.4 and auto trans.

MT-2500

01-15-2008, 09:34 AM

Changed the lock cylinder and now it will crank but not start. The theft system light is flashing. I there a way to reset this. It is a 97 with a 2.4 and auto trans.

Try the relearn.
The book says to clear codes first.
Turn key on and hit start and if no start turn back to run for 10 minutes untill light goes out.
The back off and then on and see if light goes out.
Then see if it will start.

If battery is low you may need a charger or jumper on it for the 10 minutes key on relearn.
Good Luck
MT

edfromut

01-15-2008, 09:34 PM

I have an 03 Alero. It cranked but failed to start last week. I'm not sure I heard the fuel pump run or not. The next day I turned the key to On and I heard the fuel pump run for a few seconds and then it turned off. I proceded to crank it and it started right up. It started and ran for several days with no problems. Then yesterday it would crank but not start again. I turned the key to on and I did not hear the fuel pump prime the system. I did hear a couple of clicks under the hood. Also when I turned off the key I heard a series of about 6 clicks right in the engine area. I checked the fuel pump relay and the fuses under the hood and everything was OK. Is this a PK problem, an ignition cylinder problem, or maybe a BCM problem? Is the fuel pump acting up? When I cranked the engine the Security light stays on for just a few seconds and then goes out. If this is a PK problem will the fuel pump still kick on or do the fuel injectors just cut out? Do I hear the F/I clicking under the hood when I turn the key off? I never heard this before. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

E

PennyAnte

01-16-2008, 12:33 AM

I did the procedure to deactivate my passlock security system. (started car, cut yellow wire, installed a cheap, temporary toggle switch). It worked (system light on to indicate it was disabled). I didnt want the security light on, and didnt want to keep that cheap toggle switch so I bought a nice switch that looks like part of the dashboard, drilled a little hole through the dash...inserted the switch that had a teethed nut underneath to hold it flat and solid and centered it above on the radio faceplate. Looks very professional and it works. I installed it reversed from the directions so that the security light is not lit when the security system is disabled because that light is very bright and annoying. By reversing the switch, Security light is on if the security system is Enabled. I will always keep it disabled so that I can start the car, thus the light is off.

I really want to troubleshoot this tho. I want to disconnect the battery and reconnect it to make sure it will still start. I need to know... should I have the switch in the position that the wires are in the closed position (where it makes for a continuous connection) or should I have the switch in the disabled position (wires open, not touching) so that the security system is deactivated when the battery is reconnected?

Thanks ahead in case I can't find my way back to this thread/site.

MT-2500

01-16-2008, 10:11 AM

chevo

01-17-2008, 10:15 PM

ponchonutty

01-18-2008, 07:09 AM

Welcome to AF
It sounds more like a engine starting running problem.
You have to have spark and fuel pressure first thing to check.
Try running a post in the Alero forum for help on it.
If Triped.
The anti theft system cuts injector pulse within or after a couple seconds of engine starting.
If light comes on with a key on buld check and then goes out it it should be OK.
MT
Normally even if the PK2 system is shutting down the the car, the fuel pump is still on and working. Like MT said, the PK2 system shuts down the injectors, not the fuel pump. You may have a fuel pump or other associated issue.

MT-2500

01-18-2008, 02:32 PM

hi im new to this site but like all of us here im here in search of some help. I have looked threw almost all of these post and have not gotten an answer to my problem well today i went to the store and wen i got into my car it did not start and btw im 40 miles from home with my wife and kid and with frozen food in the trunk. well anyway after 3 hours of watiing for aride i got home and got online here to see if i could get help well i have tried the 10 min methode of reseting and nothing i have done it for like 4 hours striaght now and the battery is dead now so im stuck with this car oh sorry the car is a 98 chevy malibu someone please help me start my car i dont have the money to get it towed or to get it fixed at the moment

thanks

Welcome to AF.

I quick question does the security come on with key on and then go out after the bulb check or stay on full time?

Sounds like you are in a tight spot.
With out a scanner or test equipment it is hard to tell what the problem is.
If you are 40 miles from home and no money for tow.
Better see if the store parking lot will let you leave it there a few days.
If you have any way to get some money the for repair.
I would suggest you contact a good repair shop and see if they will have it towed to there shop for you and check it out you.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
Also you might get some help by running a post in the Malibu forum.
MT

mikea1962

01-19-2008, 01:39 PM

Thanks very much to everybody for the details on how to disable this Passlock system. It's an Olds Intrigue, not a Chevy, but this is a major common GM problem that GM refuses to accept responsibility for. Neither the dealer nor the company would cut me a break despite this being a major design defect. They wouldn't even acknowledge it's a problem. Cutting the yellow wire with the engine running and inserting a toggle switch worked and I saved $500.

Added bonus: since the theft system is now disabled, there's a better chance somebody can steal my car. Please do! I won't have to deal with the next GM design problem that crops up (Passlock in the third, following frequent wiper motor failure and a seized AC compressor at 30K miles.) Life-long GM owner, but this is the last.

Thanks again.

slls

01-20-2008, 09:52 AM

PennyAnte

01-20-2008, 10:51 AM

I do know something is rearming the security system. I've installed the toggle switch as instructed and it's working fine. I turn the car off with the security light on (meaning the security system is disabled) but when I start the vehicle up, the key won't start it and the security light is not ON. I've tried turning the car off with the switch activated (arming the security system) hoping I might have installed backwards, but that doesnt work either. I just want to always be able to start the car with the key, NOT the remote starter, and I dont want to wait 10 mins or whatever. Any ideas on what is reactivating the security system? I want to remove or disable the remote start so that I can see, after disarming the security system with the switch, if the security system stays deactivated. I know that if I can get the system to stay deactivated, the car will start with the key. I understand there might be a fuse in the harness of the remote start (under the dash) that I could take out to disable the remote start.

If they installed the remote start improperly to begin with, could it be reactivating the security system?
Any ideas would be appreciated.

GouldmanRS

01-21-2008, 03:20 PM

Well, it looks like it happened to me, it is -5 degrees here and My car will turn over but not start. If I turn the key to "on" for 10 or 12 minutes and it starts. I have a 2000 Grand Am GT and I am not looking forward to spending the money to have this replaced.

I have read through this thread a couple of times and I wanted to summarize what I have learned to make sure I don’t screw up my car any worse. I'm not very good with this kind of stuff, but I have a brother that will do all the work for me.

Basically, the passlock system that is built into my car is meant to keep you from sticking a screwdriver into the ignition to start it. When you put in a key, two magnates send a current through the key and the computer measures the resistance. If the resistance is within the limit, the car starts, If not then it just turns over without starting.

To replace this system, it is alittle over 500 bucks (give or take a few). But there may be three ways to get around this. They were discovered because people were trying to hookup remote starters and the theft lock was killing the engine. The first is spray cleaner into the ignition to clean the magnets... Check… and no change… Use a different key and it works sometimes.

The second is if you can get the car running (e.g. the signal makes it to the computer) then cut the cable, the computer registers the broken circuit and goes into a failover mode. At that point the car will start no matter if the passlock system is working or not. The draw back is that the security light in the dash stays on and if the power goes out (e.g. the battery dies or need to be jumped) the computer resets and goes out of the failover mode. Some people put in switches so they can control this but you run the risk of the ignition being really broken and never getting it to start again which is necessary to get it into the failover mode.

The last idea is to measure what the set resistance is for your key and put in a comparable resistor instead of a switch. Basically, you bypass the ignition and the computer always thinks the correct key is being used. This way, if you the battery ever goes dead then you dont run the risk of not being able to start it again. Somebody had drawn a MS Paint diagram of this bypass but nobody really responded to it. Is it correct?

Anyway, If there is any information that is not correct or accurate, please let me know. I hope to start working on my car tonight (in the -5 degree weather.) and any frustration that I can avoid would be very much appreciated.

MT-2500

01-21-2008, 03:49 PM

Key on bulb test the security light comes on for bulb and ststem test.
If the light goes out everything on security system is OK.
If not it shuts off the injectors and keeps the engine from starting.
Some times the key on for 10-20 will override it.

But if it is tripping the light there is a problem with the system.
I would suggest a good engine capable scannner to get the code and find out where the problem is.
Post back code.
Depending on the problem a lot of them can be fixed with out to much.
The chev Malbui has a lot of major problems.
Some times the best deal on them is the bypass.

To bypass it look back threw all of the post here on it.
MT

Hoppy2

01-21-2008, 07:02 PM

GouldmanRS,

You summed up the entire 15 pages in one simple post! Good luck with it, unfortunately, if you are having problems and try to check the resistance of the switch you may be getting a wrong reading that the computer is also getting.

I may be wrong, but may suggest if anyone has any comments on whether this is correct or not, but what if you take a reading of the resistance, replace the switch with the same resistance with resistors, then do the "Relearn" on the system with the 10 minute ignition on procedure.

I have had no problem with the resistor install on my Intrigue. Lately it has been getting into the single digits in Fahrenheit and the car starts with no problem, even with the remote starter.

logoody

01-22-2008, 02:00 AM

Well my saga for the Passlock has finally ended, No I didn't get rid of the Malibu. I fixed it, cost was around 100 bucks, and it should be permanent or at least for another 5 years.
First I was having intermittent failures, similar to those posted elsewhere on this and other newsgroups. I went to a very experienced automotive electrician and got detailed schematics of the Passlock or Passkey system used in ALL GM vehicles from 1998 to 2005.

There is an optional system that uses a coded key with a chip resistor in it. Look at your key and see if it has a number or # stamped on it, that and only that key will work.

Mine is a non coded key, or a standard passkey or passlock II system. The key actuates a pair of magnets that pass in the vicinity of a pair of Hall-effect sensors, basically a pair of transistor switches that use a magnetic field as a turn on junction for them. They are each attached to a precision resistor that drops the voltage on the yellow (data) wire, referenced to the black (ground) wire. The data line carries about 5.5 volts normally with the key off, when my key went to start that voltage dropped to 2.088 volts and stayed at that voltage until the key was taken to off. The next start cycle it repeated. A no-start (crank) cycle was 4-5 volts, a tamper was >2.2 volts or <1.8 volts and would cut off the engine after a few seconds.
I measured the voltage then cut the yellow wire after noting the correct START sequence, i.e. the engine started. When I cut the yellow wire the engine was not running but I made sure the voltages were correct, I put the shifter in "R" and did the "START" sequence and checked the voltage before I cut the wire. The "Theft System" annunciator came on just like it is supposed to. I then measured the resistance from the yellow wire on the ignition switch to the black wire and found 1808 ohms, NOTE this is my value yours WILL be different, there are thousands of combinations. I then when to my local Radio Shack and got the necessary resistor to substitute for the above resistance from the hall-effec sensors. I then slid a piece of heat shrink tubing (electrical tape will work) over the yellow wire to the BCM and soldered the resistor to the yellow wire and to the black wire. Now my passkey is permanently set to good data.

Do not try to unplug the three wires from the lock assembly, you will ruin the connector and possibly the lock. The lock must be partially removed to unplug the connector, easy enough, turn you key to run and press the square metal button on the bottom of the ignition switch the whole tumbler and key will slip out, remove it about 1/2 inch then disconnect the connector. You can put the correct resistor between the yellow and black pins , then tape the connector and resistor up, and slide the lock back in.

Well on with my saga, I did the above resistor modification after some experiments to see what values did what, I wrote everything down.

About a week after I did the modifications I noted the vehicle was cranking again and not starting, being the technician I am I started noting symptoms. Turn key all idiot lights light, go to start display goes blank, NO START. Turn key idiot lights stay on vehicle starts, turn key idiot lights stay on then blink off no start. Tells me the ignition switch is FUBAR (Fu--ed up beyond all recognition) anyhow I replaced the ignition switch with a brand new ACdelco part an lo-and-behold it worked perfectly, hence the $100 cause that's what the switch goes for. The part # is ACD1432D, use only this part. You have to take out the instrument cluster to put it in but it takes about 20 minutes, half dozen body clips and 2 screws above the instrument cluster trim piece, 9 hex head screws, (6 if you don't pull the radio) but it makes it easier to get two hands in there.

pat

Zelig

01-28-2008, 08:28 PM

Hi everyone,

I just had a couple of questions.
I, like everyone else here, have been having problems with the passlock on my 2001 Chevy Mailbu. I have read through all the posts here (took me a long time, lol!) as well as on some other message boards, and I decided I'm going to install the toggle switch.

Many people have said that you need to have the engine running before cutting the yellow wire. And that makes sense if all I'm going to do is cut the wire and cap off the ends. But if I'm using a toggle switch. I should be able to cut the wire and install the switch with the engine off, and just make sure the switch is in closed position when starting the car. Then just put the switch in open position after its started. I mean, thats essentially the same thing right?

Another thing I wanted to bring up is someone (forgot the name, sorry) was saying that he didnt recommend installing a toggle switch (use resistor instead) because if the battery konks out, the car wont start. Which again makes sense, but I mean, if that happens the switch can just be placed back into the closed position after the new battery is put in (or charged) and started as normal...or am I incorrect on this? I have seen other sites where they said this can be done.
The reason I would rather use the switch instead of a resistor is because I have never done soldering before and would rather not try it for the first time on my car...LOL! But a switch should be very easy for me to wire in.

Thanks,

Admiral Michael

01-28-2008, 09:19 PM

Well I haven't done it yet but I would prefer the resistor method only because with the toggle you will get a check engine light which would annoy the hell out of me.

Question to those who have done the resistor method: would it work on a 2003 3.4L impala?

slls

01-29-2008, 12:03 PM

logoody

01-29-2008, 06:45 PM

Zelig

02-02-2008, 01:24 PM

Well, I just got through installing the switch. It was so much easier than I thought. It only took me about 35-40 minutes, and I'm really not much of an auto mechanic.

I left the car off when I cut the yellow wire and installed the switch. I didnt solder it, I just twisted the wires together and taped them up, same on the switch. I didnt even mount the switch in the dash or anything. I just left it hanging in the back of the dash. You really cant see it unless you just stick your head down there and look up, but its still easy to get to if I need to enable it again.

I started the car up with the switch closed and it started up fine. After several seconds I turned the switch to the open position. At first nothing happened, then after about 2-3 seconds the 'theft system' light came on and stayed on. I turned the car off and on several times and it started up fine each time. I just stuck a piece of black electrical tape over the light. :grinyes:

I know I just did a cheap, quick method. But all I cared about is getting this to work. I got tired of getting stuck waiting 10 minutes for the passlock to reset. On average it would hapen about once a month, but in the last 2 weeks it happened about 5 times and I was just fed up.

I'll post an update after several weeks and let you know how its going..

I just wanted to offer a big thanks to everyone on here who contributed. Especially to the guy who posted screenshots. You guys were a big help.

-Zelig

Hi everyone,

I just had a couple of questions.
I, like everyone else here, have been having problems with the passlock on my 2001 Chevy Mailbu. I have read through all the posts here (took me a long time, lol!) as well as on some other message boards, and I decided I'm going to install the toggle switch.

Many people have said that you need to have the engine running before cutting the yellow wire. And that makes sense if all I'm going to do is cut the wire and cap off the ends. But if I'm using a toggle switch. I should be able to cut the wire and install the switch with the engine off, and just make sure the switch is in closed position when starting the car. Then just put the switch in open position after its started. I mean, thats essentially the same thing right?

Another thing I wanted to bring up is someone (forgot the name, sorry) was saying that he didnt recommend installing a toggle switch (use resistor instead) because if the battery konks out, the car wont start. Which again makes sense, but I mean, if that happens the switch can just be placed back into the closed position after the new battery is put in (or charged) and started as normal...or am I incorrect on this? I have seen other sites where they said this can be done.
The reason I would rather use the switch instead of a resistor is because I have never done soldering before and would rather not try it for the first time on my car...LOL! But a switch should be very easy for me to wire in.

Thanks,

rsimpalals

02-02-2008, 01:36 PM

Angel4711

02-04-2008, 03:22 AM

I have a 1998 Chevy Malibu that I bought used in December 2007 (a month ago) and it just started having this problem, which is how I found this site.

My poor husband was spending hours outside jumping my car with his and trying over and over again to get my car working. He kept adjusting the jumper cables on the battery terminals thinking that might work, but nothing was getting my car to start.

The first time it happened, I was able to unlock my car (in a grocery store parking lot), open the trunk, load up the groceries, but then I tried to start it and nothing happened. No lights, no radio, no AC, no start. My husband met me there, jumped the car and it was fine. I was so mad because I just bought a new battery when I got the car a month before.

Now, the next time I tried to start it was a few days later. This time, the lights in the car, the radio and AC came on when the key got to the ACC line, but then everything went dead when I tried to start it up. We tried jumping it, but it didn't work. It was at time that I noticed the flashing lights below the steering wheel that apparently have something to do with the security system. I'd looked up an owner's manual online and had read about it prevously (from what I remember, unless it recognizes the right key, it prevents gas from getting to the engine, making your car a doorstop), but I didn't know it had anything to do with that funny black key-looking-thing under the steering wheel. Now that it was blinking, it got my attention. It did slow red blinking, fast red blinking, slow green blinking, but nothing really consistent that I noticed. In any case, I figured now that it probably had something to do with the security system rather than the battery. Still, just in case, my husband tried for about half and hour and then we sadly canceled our for-the-first-time-in-a-month dinner plans since it was now too late at night. :banghead:

The next time I tried to start the car, which was the next day, my husband tried starting it again. He managed to get it started once and left the car running (doors locked) for about an hour hoping to recharge the alternator. We went to start it later and the same thing--the car went dead when I tried to start it. So, I went to the computer and he went back to the jumper cables. :disappoin :shakehead

I saw a thread about cutting wires, but that scared me, so I kept reading. I saw another idea of permanently disabling the security system, but that would cost money, too, and I can't work, so I kept reading. Finally, I saw the answer to my prayers in the post that said to put in the key, put the car in neutral, and then start it and that has been working like a dream!! :p

SUMMARY: If your car's dome/dash lights come on when you stick the key in, but then everything dies when you try to start the car, check under the steering wheel. If lights are blinking, it might be the security system. So, before you spend a zillion dollars on this, try putting the key in (don't start, but you can stick it in ACC), then put the car in neutral, then start. For about the next 6 times I've started my car, it has worked without a problem!!

slls

02-04-2008, 12:05 PM

Ponchonutty , have you read the post before mine.

foxtrot

02-10-2008, 06:29 PM

I have a 2002 impala ls that has this problem, i want to do one of the methods that have been discused but how in the heck to you get to the radio to pull it out...it looks like you have to pull the dash off. That dash goes althe way across to the passenger side, I wish it was split. I did find the screws that look it they hold the panel on but im sure there are clips also, can anyone give some advice on taking the plastic dash off?. I could go to the junk yard and try to find one and experiment, but hate to do that just incase there is a part that someone may need.

Thanks!
al

I have a 2002 Monte Carlo, I thik they are similer but have never seen inside an Impalla. I thought the dash went all the way across I just got pissed and pulled on it and presto the cover came of the intrument pannel and radio.
Thats as far as I have gone so far. Sitting in the driveway half apart.

foxtrot

02-10-2008, 06:35 PM

Sounds like you have a faulty ignition switch and not necessarly a PK2 issue.

Well isnt the passlock part of that switch? Im asuming you mean the box that plugs into the locking cylinder.

I am just wondering if I replace that, about $230 and then it turns out to be the BCM at about $105.
What is weird is it will start every time when it is cold, but only fail when it it warm. The other day is was warm but the car was cold and it would not start. Something is tempature sensative.:screwy:

foxtrot

02-10-2008, 06:51 PM

Either the toggle or the resistor method requires soldering unless you care to mount the toggle right next to the ignition switch which will need a hole in the dash. You will need to extend the wires and using crimp on terminals is not a good method although it will work. I actually went through the resistor install and then again had problems starting. Turns out the ignition switch itself was all carboned up and needed replacement which took less time then the resistor method.

The switch was $100 and I left the resistor in.

goody

Is this switch a fit all type of part?

Another thing that got my attention in your post, when my problems first started, I remeber pulling my key out and it had something on it, like there was some gunky stuff in the lock. Did nt think much of it at the time.

drvnguy

02-15-2008, 10:51 AM