Eighties Contest Entry: 1988 McLaren MP4/4 (and Introduction)

Hi everybody!

I have watched your Le Mans contest during the earlier part of the year with great interest but i was way too late to join. Now with the new contest i'll give it a try:-) With a deadline 11 months away even i may have a chance to finish something in time.
My interest if it comes to modeling are F1 and LM cars from 1:43rd up to 1:12 scale. To be honest though i have finished only one 43rd car in "recent times" and a couple under progress on my desk ( for longer than i'd like to admit:-).
The contest theme has now changed my planned schedule and against my promises i have started something new.
My choice was in between a Rothmans 956, a Sauber C9, the McLaren MP4/4 and a Ferrari F189 ( aka 640 ) ( all by Tamiya ). Since the Porsches and Saubers seem to be very popular here i decided to go F1 and while the Ferrari is my favourite F1 car the McLaren finally won for a couple of reasons.

- Reference.... I managed to take a bunch of pictures of the real thing during the last two Goodwood FOS.....very important :-)

- Modeling problems.... i have a 1993 McLaren MP4/8 on the desk which is about half finished. It has become a testbed for my modeling skills and various techniques and after i had my fair share of problems with it this will make the 4/4 a bit quicker ( hopefully ). The Ferrari would be more trying new things out again....

- Detail..... I think the Ferrari would be a bit too short on details for this contest in fact. One of the things i like about that car is its cleanliness! There's just so little in comparison to other cars ( especially an active suspension MP4/8 ) but since i want to add some serious detail for the contest the McLaren looks like the better option:-)

- History....and success. I wanted something great as a topic and if it comes to successful F1 cars of the '80s this is the one!
Driven by Senna and Prost it won 15 of the 16 races that year and would have won all of them if not for an end of race collision of Senna laping J.L.Schlesser ( Sauber C9 anyone :-) at Monza....but that's history;-) Senna finally won his first championship in the 4/4 that season and i guess it will look great next to the 4/8 ( his first next to his last McLaren ).
The Ferrari was more innovative one year later but unfortunately very unreliable.....it's still the nicer car though:-)

So much talking for now! Watch this space until i have figured out how to post pictures here and then i'll start the build diary. So far the forum rules at the bottom of the page say i may not post attachments!? What do i have to do? Any hints are very welcome!

Cheers

Jaykay

Welcome! This should be an interesting build, I'll be keeping an eye on it.

As for posting pictures, my advise is to foind some webspace to put them in (your ISP might give you some with your account, or you could by a domain and some space like I have). Upload your pictures there and then when you create a new post you can click on the icon of the picture frame and link the pictures in. You do get a gallery with your AF membership but there's a limit on the size of pictures you can upload, and the number. If you are like me you'll run out very quickly!!!

Thanks for the welcome:-)

My first step to adding pictures.....is by link. It works only like this but i want the image to show up in the thread of course! Have to find a better place to host them. So far i'm using the company account and i can't host pictures here:-(
I'll see....


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/GoodwoodDisplay.jpg

This is the real thing on aerial display at this year's Goodwood Festival of Speed. It's the "early season" version with turbo air intakes coming out on top of the sidepods. I will build the late season one without them. More to that later:-)

Next one is the kit contents:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/Kitcontents.jpg

It's not a lot and you can see it's an old kit if you compare the quality and amount of parts to one of Tamiya's later F1 kits like the Williams FW24 but it's a good starting point:-)

Welcome,
Looks to be a good subject for the 80's contest. i would highly recomend that you paint all the red on the body instead of using the decals. its pretty easy to mask these areas off.

Also you can use the AF gallery to post your pictures. Go the Gallery, the link is at the top of the page. once in the Gallery at the top right there is a button that says upload image, click it. now hit "browse" and find the picture you want to upload. then hit "upload and submit". then you need to hit "process image". now your image is in the AF Gallery. go back to the Gallery and click on your picture. it will now be full-size and just under the picture there will be text that is the link to your picture. right click the link (and NOT the picture) and select copy. now you can paste the link in your post and the image will show up in your post.

Hope this helps!

Hi Jaykay, great entry, I look forward to seeing your progress. On the subject of image hosting, I use www.photobucket.com You can upload your pictures there and it gives you the [img] link below the picture. You can then just cut and paste this into the forum and your pic will display.

Good luck with both the pic hosting and the build.

Wahey!!!!

Thanks for the tip with photobucket willster! I read about it before once but had forgotten about it. I had a look at fotki but this will work fine for the moment and if i need to upgrade it's half the price:-)
As you can see the pictures show up now! So on we go:-)

freakmech..... the stripes will of course be painted! As i mentioned i am a bit more advanced with the 4/8 who got the same treatment ( fully painted with 2K-primer, 2K-white, 2K-RAL3024 ( that's the exact McLaren fluorescent red ) and 2K-clear!

First comes a picture of the monocoque as it comes off the sprue....can't stay like that:-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/03monocoqueboxstock.jpg

The nosecone will get a different trim and for the installation of suspension and other components it's in my way anyway.
If you do it the way the instructions say you will get shutlines where they shouldn't be and other problems. I'll do it my way.
Same goes for the sidepods. Their material is way too thick anyway so off they go....:-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/04initialsurgery.jpg

The undertray loses the holes where the body pins are supposed to go. That's all wrong and would look very toyish...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/05undertray.jpg


The rear end of the undertray is also plagued by the "injection molded model material thickness"-problem:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/06diffusorboxstock.jpg

That diffusor is waaay too thick....

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/07diffusorboxstock.jpg


...so it follows the sidepods:-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/08rearendsurgery.jpg

That's it for now.....gotta go for a birthday party:-)

Welcome to AF and the Eighties Comp jaykay! :wave:
Good luck with the MP4/4 - looks like you know what you are doing. :)

Thanks RallyRaider....i hope:-)

Here we go with some more progress:

After cutting the rear end pieces off i filed and sanded the middel part thin to about 0.3mm ( very annoying job with PS but there will be more...) and started replacing the pieces with 0.3mm sheet-PS using the old pieces as templates. This creates a more realistic undertray and diffusor thickness.
In the background you can see i also started filling holes on the monocoque with sheet-PS superglued in and then i sanded all surfaces to get them straight and even.


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/09diffusorreplacement.jpg


In the next photo you see the diffusor in an advanced state. The middle fins are missing. They will be seperate pieces also from 0.3mm PS and follow later.
Around the sides you see a 0.15mm thick brass strip. This is also superglued and creates a flange like on the real car that will later fix the body. My first try to do this on the MP4/8 was with a plastic strip but that didn't last. Metal is the much better solution here:-)
In the rear part where the body tapers that flange on the real car has a kink downwards. In the kit that's just a straight edge so i filed it about 0,7mm lower. I'll also have to change it on the body part.


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/10undertrayadvanced.jpg



This is the real nosecone:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/11realnosecone.jpg


The kit piece looks like this and needs changes:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/12noseconeboxstock.jpg


This is another view of the nose where the nosecone meets the monocoque. You can see the black piece in between that also has the mounting points for the upper front suspension arms.


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/13realfrontsuspensionwasher.jpg

I built this from 0.15mm sheet brass and a brass U-profile ( soldered together and then filed a lot....). Plastic again doesn't do the job ( yes i tried before :-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/14brasswasherWIP.jpg


It now looks like this:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/15brasswashernosecone.jpg



The white bits show where i added material to fill the holes or change the shape ( nosecone....to get it right...see original ).
The hole on top through which the pedals and steering column will be visible later was too big. The openings for the pullrod dampers in turn were to small and i changed the shape slightly. I cut the molded in dampers off to replace them with extra bits in a deeper hole later ( that's gonna be tricky in fact because i want to do it after CF-decaling and painting to get seperate pieces like in reality ( see next picture ). I'll see how i get that done:-)


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/16realfrontdamperhole.jpg



Next is a picture of the real cockpit:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/17realgearshiftarmrest.jpg



The armrest/gearshift in the kit ( the black piece ) is way too rough so i cleaned the sidewall and scratchbuilt one from 0.3mm ps ( step by step always with superglue ). It has a bigger hole like in reality and will get an insert with the gearshift. They will stay extra bits through painting and CF-decaling. This will make that job much easier:-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/18armrestcomparison.jpg


This is the piece in place:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/19armrestinplace.jpg

That's it for the moment. I had some holidays which gave me more time to model so now i need to carry on ( job permitting :-)
Don't expect daily updates:-)

Lovely, I ve always wanted one of these mastodonts built up!

great step by step, a joy to follow.

Olivier

this is some incredible work your doing! im building the Lotus Honda 99T as one of my entries, but i dont stand a chance of acheiving this kind of detail due to lack of reference. you wouldnt happen to have some good reference pics of the 99T you could send me? you know... to make things fair :naughty:

Keep up the great work!

this is some incredible work your doing! im building the Lotus Honda T99 as one of my entries, but i dont stand a chance of acheiving this kind of detail. you wouldnt happen to have some good reference pics of the T99 you could send me? you know... to make things fair :naughty:

Keep up the great work!

Send me an email at nicholas@scalecentral.org and I will send you some pics this weekend to help you out.
Nic

this is some incredible work your doing! im building the Lotus Honda 99T as one of my entries, but i dont stand a chance of acheiving this kind of detail due to lack of reference. you wouldnt happen to have some good reference pics of the 99T you could send me? you know... to make things fair :naughty:

Keep up the great work!


Well i don't have anything i took but instead of building on my model last night i gave my scanner a workout and got you the stuff i have in my reference books. There are three pages in the F1Modeling Ayrton Senna Giga Special ( which i guess you don't have and won't get anymore:-) and some others. I can't post them here obviously so pm me where to send them ( some are big....).
For more i recommend you get over to F1M.com and ask. There should be someone who took pictures of it last year at Goodwood.....i just didn't have enough time:-)

Now you know what that means.....i wanna see some results from you here!!:-)

Cheers

Jaykay

Lovely, I ve always wanted one of these mastodonts built up!

great step by step, a joy to follow.

Olivier

I couldn't said it better.

More progress over the weekend:-)

I started to work on the seat. This is the piece that comes in the kit:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/20seatboxstock.jpg



It's supposed to look a bit more like this:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/21realseat.jpg



First of all the molded in seatbelt had to go ( rotary tool, files and sandpaper ) and then it needed some shape around the legs!
I put styrene strips on the sides and the middle, then shaped the edges and filled them up with polyester putty. With more filing and sanding i got the right surface and then drilled and filed holes for the lower seatbelts and some cables. These are also thinned out from the rear to get the material very thin at the holes' edges. Now it needs some primer.



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/22seatchanged.jpg



I also changed the armrest again....got the rear end wrong the first time:-( It still needs a little cutout near the gearstick and the insert bit.



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/23changedseatincockpit.jpg


I then decided to attack the cowling. The kit part comes like this:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/24cowlingboxstock.jpg



Generally speaking it's not bad but needs some work all over. I started by closing the holes for the turbo air intakes on the sidepods and the mirror holes with bits of styrene and then sanding all outer surfaces to get them straight. Below the front wing i closed some holes ( wonder what they were meant for in the first place....) and ejection marks and sanded the wing elements. The trailing edges needed some thinning and i cut of a little piece of plastic that connected the flaps on each side. That will later be replaced with PE.
Then started the really annoying part....thinning the whole cowling. Due to the injection molding process all the walls are way too thick for that scale ( like on the undertray before ) but instead of replacing the only choice here is "dremeling", filing and sanding. The inside of this cowling is not very clean anyway. You can see there's been some serious improvement in mold making during the last 15 years:-)
It's a bit difficult to show here ( especially on this white piece ) but this is one of the sidewalls before treatment:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/25wallthicknesscowling.jpg



....and this is another corner afterwards.


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/26wallthinner.jpg




I try to get the walls quite thin especially where it's very obvious ( to around 0,5mm - 0,7mm ) because that looks better and helps with space when i add details later. With several layers of paint and decals in some areas they'll grow some "fat" later on anyway. The material stays pretty strong but it's a major league p.i.t.a. to work on. Resin is nicer in that respect but it breaks more easily of course.
So much about this. I have another couple of hours to file and sand along and you wont see much of that in a photo but it needs to be done:-)
I figured i have to do it now before i start scratchbuilding the sidepods and putting the engine to get the height correct....
Also i have to get the cowling and the monocoque alligned before i get into the internals!

Jaykay

nice work. ill be watching this progress carefully for tips as F1's arent my speciality :lol: im dreading having to remove the seat belts on the 99T but over all accuracy seems a bit better then your 4/4 seat. keep the progress coming, its great to watch!

O.k. here finally comes an update. It's not that i haven't been working on the model.....it just wouldn't have shown in pictures really:-)
As i mentioned in my last post i thinned down the whole cowling. This took about 15 hours of careful work alone. It's so thin now, the surfaces are flexible and can be pushed in. That's of course not the goal but may give you an idea.
I then scratchbuilt the inserts on the sides of the cowling. I put the kit piece ( early season big hole ) for comparison.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/27sidepodbeam.jpg

On the inside it looks like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/28cowlinginside.jpg

There will follow another piece that leads towards the radiator. That's a seperate component on the real car and for easier painting and decaling i decided to do it the same on the model.

This is a view of the thinned rear end of the cowling. It's actually quite tricky to take pictures of this white plastic stuff under the light conditions i have in the evenings when i work on the model:-(

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/29cowlingrearend.jpg

I then added a plastic strip to the lower edge of the cowling to match the modified undertray.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/30cowlingextendededge.jpg

At this point i went on to fit cowling and undertray. Originally i wanted to keep the cowling in one pice as long as possible but it turned out that didn't work too well so i cut the nose piece off along the molded shutline.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/31noseseparation.jpg

On both pieces i added flange walls...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/32noseconeflangewalls.jpg


...and then worked on the underside of the nosebit and made it fit nicely to the monocoque. I put the blue tape to protect the wing bits from bending or breaking off.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/33noseconeinside.jpg

Now when the pieces of monocoque and cowling are put together there's only a thin gap that should be even smaller once the pieces are CF'd and painted (...hopefully:-)


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/34nosesketchassembly.jpg


The cowling unfortunately has a bit of tension and doesn't slide on and stay perfectly where i want it to, so i will later add some pins where the real car has it's fasteners on the sidepods to make it fit tighter.

While doing all this test fitting i realized there was another problem around the cockpit. The opening in the cowling was wider then the one in the monocoque.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/35cockpitwide.jpg


Since it was pretty low in the sideview as well i decided to add about 1mm and also new inner walls to change that.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/36cockpitnarrow.jpg


This is only one place of many where the proportions of the kit don't exactly match the real car but changing everything would be a bit too much and actually if you don't have the reference pictures for comparison nobody will notice:-)

So much for now!

So much work, if I didn't know I would have said that it was Revell kit since it needs so much improvement :D, just kidding, I love when someone takes so much care about the details, great and throughout work on this one.

amazing build to watch and admire!
Your attention (and devotion :) ) to detail is as awsome as your skill :bigthumb:

fantastic detail work! I can't wait to see more progress!

Man you must have nerves of steel! Keep the updates coming!! :D

Thanks for the comments guys:-) So far my nerves actually haven't been tried on this one. As i said i kind of know now where trouble most probably will strike from building the MP4/8 ( which isn't finished yet ) and others like a Lotus 25 that has stalled after it's 3rd set of scratchbuilt exhaust pipes that still don't work ( dohhhhh!!).

After a weekend with some good modeling time though here comes another update:

First up a reference picture of the cowling frontend i forgot in my last post:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/37realcowlingflangewall.jpg

I carried on with the inside of the cowling and added some surface details ( i.e. dodgy CF layup ). Here's a picture of the real one:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/38cowlingunderside.jpg


...and this is the model. I added a piece of 0.2mm plastic sheet in the front and some polyester putty. It does make me feel quite stupid to first sand those surfaces nice and smooth and then mess them up again....but that's the way it goes:-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/39cowlingundersidemodel.jpg


In the rear part of the cowling i added those two pieces made from 0.8mm plastic sheet.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/40heatshieldscowling.jpg


They seem to be heat shields and will later be covered with chrome foil. I forgot the picture where they are mounted but here is one of the real car:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/41realheatshields.jpg


The cowling is now ready for some primer but first i'll build some more bits. First up were the sidepods. After cutting off the kit pieces in the beginning i scratchbuilt them from various thickness plastic sheets. I do two pieces per side as on the real car.

The real one on the right hand side:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/42sidepodfrontright.jpg

...and the built up piece with the top and bottom bits copied for the left hand side:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/43sidepodfrontrightmodel.jpg


Now this is the major difference between the early season MP4/4 as it comes in the kit and the late season version i'm building. Instead of the periscope airducts sticking out of the cowling the turbos are fed internally. The turbo intercoolers are smaller and the intakes run around them on both sides of the car so the sidepods are different here:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/44sidepodrightrear.jpg

This is a picture during buildup:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/45sidepodrightrearinprogress.jpg


And this is the finished bits with some tiny flanges:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/46sidepodrightrearfinished.jpg


Finally an overall view with all sidepods done.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/47sidepodsbuiltup.jpg

They took longer to make than i first expected....but in fact that happens most of the time :-)
Next up in this area i have to build the radiators and connect them to the engine but there's more to do on the monocoque first!

Cheers

:eek2: :worshippy :worshippy :worshippy :worshippy

They took longer to make than i first expected....

longer than expected? :) I'd still be doing them in 3006 LOL BRAVO

It is getting better and better, stunningly clean scratch work!

Awesome

Another fantastic update! I am amazed again at the scale accuracy you are achieving! Excellent work!!

Some nice styrene sculpting there !

welcome to AF! it looks great so far!

This is really nice work. It is good to see people who are aware of details.
I plan to build the F189 do you have any idea where to find such nice reference photos?

I have TONS of respect for you, man! Tons of respect!

Increadible work!

I will follow this thread very closely. And probably build my MP4/4 again using your tips and techniques as well...

fabulous scratchbuilding going on at your place.

It's nice to watch such craftsmanship and attention to detail unfold before my very eyes. :)

Oustandingly clean scratchbuilding, WOW !!

Roberto

Thanks guys for the ongoing positive comments!! I have checked the other contest entries and i agree with a post in one of them....the quality level is getting serious! I'll try to keep up with you guys:-)
So here goes another update:

First up the driver's legroom needed some attention. I needed to put in the "boxes" that will house the front dampers and then the inner walls which don't exist in the kit.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/48damperholesbuildup.jpg

They are necessary to provide mounting points for the suspension arms. I will take those apart ( in the kit they incorrectly go all the way to the middle of the car ). I drilled and filed proper holes as per the original car and put reinforcements between the inner and outer walls.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/49legroomwallfinished.jpg

Now the bastard was finally ready for some glue:-) I put the undertray and monocoque pieces together and filed and fillered them and finally the pieces i made so far were ready for some primer.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/50primered.jpg

I'm using 2K automotive primer because it goes rock hard in a matter of hours and is generally the best stuff i have worked with.
Then came a first round of wet sanding with 600 grit paper.....and oh boy do i hate sanding paint....and it's only just the first layer!!!

Here are two pictures of the real front suspension going into the monocoque:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/51realfrontsuspensiona.jpg


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/52realfrontsuspensionb.jpg


...and the primered and sanded model.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/53suspensionholes.jpg

I also added the holes for the steering arms in the nosecone and small ones in the damper holes and the cutout in the gearshift armrest i mentioned before.

Before carrying on with the body parts i realized i should start with the engine to get things alligned and find any mistakes before doing more painting. Here are the basic pieces from the kit:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/54enginekitbits.jpg

I cut off the pieces of the rear where you would put a jack and also the wing supports. All pieces needed some filing and sanding to get the edges nicer and then i glued them together. This was followed by some filling of gaps and more sanding.
Next up i scratchbuilt a new and proper flange ( or however you may call that thing ) for the vertical rear wing supports. The original looks like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/55realrearwingsupport.jpg

...and the model now looks like that:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/56rearwingsupport.jpg

( Sorry for the picture but the contrast of white and black plastic and bad lighting don't help my little camera at all:-)

While waiting for things to harden here and there i also started on the first engine detail ( that actually comes in the kit...:-)
The oiltank sitting on top of the gearbox. The real one looks like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/57realoiltank.jpg

...and here you can see the steps of building the model piece:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/58oiltank.jpg

I cut off the filler cap because it obviously needs different paint than the tank and like this i could detail the tank better. The molded in piece goes all the way to the tank surface but on the real one there's a recess. I sanded the cut off piece thin and added a round piece of plastic underneath. Also the tank got flanges for hoses that will follow later and these welded on round pieces.
They looked like someone had second thoughts about the fabrication of the real tank at McLaren but they are identical on two different chassis i photographed:-) So now only the weld lines are missing. I'll add them with a brush and primer later!
That's it for the moment!

Wow! simply amazing.. now I feel like I should get a mp4/4 too! maybe all the classic Tamiya Mclarens!
By the way, where did you get those detailed reference pictures? they look sweet!

Amazing!

This thread shows that having good reference pics is only part of the story - it's actually being able to bring them to "life" in 1/24 that's the magic element and there's plenty of it in this build.

Keep it coming!

This build just keeps getting better and better! THe thread is a good source of reference pics too. :)

this is a real treat. thanks for all the effort/work with the pics/info...

Murray

I am really enjoying this!

I am really enjoying this!

NO. I am enjoying this!... :p

Awesome build so far man!

Amazing!

This thread shows that having good reference pics is only part of the story - it's actually being able to bring them to "life" in 1/24 that's the magic element and there's plenty of it in this build.

Keep it coming!

Correction : 1/20!

Great progress BTW!

Wow! simply amazing.. now I feel like I should get a mp4/4 too! maybe all the classic Tamiya Mclarens!
By the way, where did you get those detailed reference pictures? they look sweet!


As i mentioned in my very first post (....:-) ....) the pictures i post here were taken during the last 2 Festivals of Speed at Goodwood. Pretty much the best place in the world to get reference pictures of racecars. I took piles but everytime i build i find something i missed...:-)

Great work, man, this is going to turn out a super McLaren !!!!

Correction : 1/20!

Great progress BTW!

Good point Sennake!

Totally correct although I meant "1/24" in more sort of genereic, overall modelling way. 'Dunno why, but I was feeling a bit full of myself at the time ;) LOL

Still, I have a feeling that this build is going to end up so good that if I called it a 1/1, no one would be able to tell that it wasn't! :)

Rock on!

I sanded the cut off piece thin and added a round piece of plastic underneath. Also the tank got flanges for hoses that will follow later and these welded on round pieces.

I suppose that you use some kind of "punch and die set" for those round pieces? And if so, which brand are you using (Waldron?...)

I'm thinking of buying such a set myself in the very near future since that's about the only tool I lack in my workshop, and I'm curious to know what the master builders inhere use.

Thanks for the feedback!

Well i'm trying to not let this "master modeler" thing go to my head. I don't really see myself as that....but thanks for the laurels:-)

Don't ask me for the brand. I bought some of them at a local tool shop. They are the standard but proper stuff and come in 1mm steps. The 1mm one was a bit difficult to get and i found it at a big German model show in the end. Just don't try to save money on tools:-) The one's you'll find at a cheap DIY store prbably won't make you happy. I first used one of these things to make holes in belts but they hardly make round holes:-)
If you have a lathe you can even make them in the size you need from hard aluminium or steel if you can. For plastic they're good enough.

Anyway...i had to clean the plastic discs up after peeling them out of the tool :-) You can also try to cut slices off plastic rods!

Toolwise i had to learn that one of the most important things to have for scratchbuilding are proper files. Most offerings you get in sets are useless rubbish. I now have a pile and still want more and they usually cost around 10€ each but they are worth it!

since I not love F1 too much, I discovered that thread just now :banghead: I read that article in 1 only breath :)
fantastic work and a lot tech. inspiration for everyone, here. So thanks a lot :2cents:

Hi there, you know how a good modeler Jaykay is but you didn't know that he's also a great photographer : reference photos of the McLaren MP4/4 are online, http://www.gurneyflap.com . I added some photos of the engine alone taken at Geneva this year, here : http://www.gurneyflap.com/hondav6turbo.html

Enjoy

JayKay:

I'm speechless, first of all, hats off! and receive all my respect.

Your work in this McLaren is amazing, the detail level is incredible!, so impressive.

I just can't wait to see more, I'm starving to see what you will do on the engine!

Great job, CONGRATULATIONS!
And welcome to this AF, it's great having people like you here.
And thousand thanks for sharing.

Cheers!

Oh Remi....you're giving away all my secrets at once :-))

To gionc and agamo and everyone else...thanks! I'm happy you like it so here comes some more!
I was knee deep in work on the job and didn't get to model a lot lately but here are some pictures. Turns out there was more than i thought:-))

First up a picture of my "punch and die" set for Guy. The silver one in front is a home made one.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/59punchanddie.jpg

Next step on the engine is the rear suspension. The upper arms from the Tamiya box look like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/60upperrearsuspensionboxstock.jpg

I would call that sketchy...:-) It should look a bit more like this:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/61realupperrearsuspension.jpg


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/62realupperrearsuspensiontop.jpg


Seems there's some serious scratchbuilding necessary...
I started with the mounting points and filled the holes in the gearbox with plastic bits and added some detail. Also i extended the rear end a bit where the brackets ( hope that's the right description :-) for the jack are fixed.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/63suspensionmountsgearbox.jpg

I then realized i need some brass tubes for the supension mounting points but never made it off work during shop hours so i had to stop there.
Instead i worked on the turbo intercoolers. The pieces in the kit come like this:


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/64radiatorboxstock.jpg

They didn't fit anymore to my scratchbuilt sidepods and needed some shrinking:-) It turned out i had to change all the dimensions and the surgery got bigger than expected. To get them positioned and connected i sketch mounted the engine and plenum chamber with tape and modelled the tube in place with bodyfiller and some lengthy filing and sanding....

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/65radiatortestfit.jpg

During that process i also found out the engine was sitting a bit too far to the back so i changed that as well.

Here you can see a comparison shot of the untouched left radiator and the converted right one. Quite a difference. Seems McLaren/Honda improved the efficiency a lot during the season!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/66intercoolercomparison.jpg


And here are both rads changed and installed. The second one was even trickier because it had to be symmetric to the other one....at least kind of :-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/67intercoolerssketchinstalled.jpg

Now there need to come the radiator grills and tube connections, but these will follow after some primer to check the surfaces.

During that process i also started on the rear wing. The main plane comes in two pieces:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/68rearwingmainplaneboxstock.jpg

They don't fit too well but some plastic sheets and bodyfiller helped with that. Unlike the big hole in the kit pieces the original wing has two small slots for the vertical supports.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/69realrearwingmountingpoint.jpg

I recreated that with a piece of plastic. Some sanding on the whole surface was needed and there we go.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/70rearwingmainplaneassembled.jpg

For the vertical bits i'll use the pieces i cut off from the transmisson before. They have the right thickness in this case:-)

That's it for now! Let's see when i can do some shopping for the suspension:-)

It almost seems like you don't need the Tamiya kit at all :). Great scratchbuiding and amazing results.
I hope you have the will to keep building, because I think this model is going to be outstanding!

Hi everybody. I didn’t have anything new to show for a while but now I have a somewhat bigger update ready, so here we go:
The next step after my last update was to make the “normal” radiators sitting in front of the already made intercoolers for the turbos. First here’s the real one from the right hand side of the car.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/71realradiatorrightside.jpg


Because of the new side pods the kit pieces didn’t work anymore so instead of a big ( and therefore somewhat pointless ) conversion I decided to scratch build them from plastic sheets and rods. The tube connections on the kit pieces were a bit sketchy anyway:-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/72radiatorplastic.jpg

Here you can see the left one put in place and the black Tamiya one for comparison.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/73radiatorcomparison.jpg

Now what’s missing here is the radiator grid and that’s where the reason for this delayed update comes into play:-) It was finally time to start on the photo etching!
The typical PE pieces you can buy from the usual suspects in the business are mostly a selection of essential bits that you can more or less just glue on top of the plastic kit pieces. The radiator grids almost never make me happy and the other bits also leave some wishes open ( Scalemotorsport is probably the exception to the rule here ).
Once you start doing bigger conversions or scratch building pieces they often become useless anyway and for some models you don’t even get anything. Personally I want more than most of the available sets offer so a while back I started doing my own photo etch pieces.
For the start on this one i went through my reference pictures and made a list of what seemed reasonable and feasible to make. That became a pretty long list in fact and in the end I spent 2 weeks worth of modelling time just doing the artwork. Admittedly I got carried a way in some cases but that easily happens when you can zoom into things and look at details of 1/10 mm on almost half the size of your screen :-)
For those who haven’t seen the process yet I have taken pictures or screenshots of the process but I won’t go into too much detail.
First to have something to etch you need the artwork. I do mine on Freehand but other vector based software ( Photoshop is no good here ) or 2D-CAD software does the job as well. The tricky part is to decide the sizes on screen without having the possibility of testfitting what you create. A ( digital ) calliper is almost a must for this.
Here’s the steering wheel center during construction…

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/74PEconstruction.jpg

…and the “finished” part along with two more bits that go on the backside of it:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/75PEconstructiondone.jpg

Each piece needs a front and back layer because unlike the rubber backed sheets you have come to know this process here works from both sides. Depending on the pieces the two layers are identical or different. The frontwing sideplate here has two different layers which in the end creates an elevated area ( black stripe ) on the main surface ( gray here ).

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/76PEoverviewzoom.jpg

Here’s an overview of all the pieces. Well actually I just realized you don’t see too much in that screenshot because of the low resolution for these online pics….but you get the idea….there’s quite a few :-)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/77PEoverview.jpg

Next up after “building” all the pieces ( the two mounting plates that connect the camcovers with the monocoque were in fact the most time consuming pieces because everything on them is angled somehow…) i had to put them together on sprues. They are sorted by material and material thickness I can do nickel silver which comes in 0.1mm up to 0.5mm thickness and can be polished or sanded to different surface looks and brass that comes in 0.2mm up to 0.4mm and can be used for golden looking bits or blackened in a chemical solution later on which leaves a very nice metal look ( much better than paint….).
For each sprue again there’s a front and back side. Here’s the full monty laid out . They cover a whole A3 sheet.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/78PEspruesforfilm.jpg

Not every single one of the bits shown will later make it onto the model. Some are double in different thicknesses or materials because I’m not sure if they will work out nicely so there’s a back up if one fails and in some cases I just have space on the spre left so I fill it up with pieces….you never know :-). I always try to push the limit for the sizes of elements and sometimes I go too far. This is after all a ”prototype” run and I don’t want to do another round if possible
I then got this data transferred onto transparent offset film in a printing company. That is the best you can get for this purpose. You can also print it on overhead transparencies with an inkjet or laser printer but they are no match for the pro stuff in either opacity or detail. In fact a test print on a laser printer swallowed half of the fine details…
Here you can see the film that I got back:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/79PEfilm.jpg

I now had to cut it up and put the respective front and back sides together with scotch tape to make little pockets:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/80PEfilmpockets.jpg

Each of them is 5cm wide. I learned previously that it’s better to have small sprues. Once the process goes from digital to chemical there’s plenty of chances for things to go wrong and my non-pro setup etches less evenly than an industrial one. On a big sprue one corner may already be finished while the other still needs some time in the etching bath. On a smaller sprue that’s just less likely:-)
The next step is to cut the metal into the right size for each pocket.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/81metalsheets.jpg

It comes pre-laminated with the photoresist ( that’s the UV-light sensitive layer ) on both sides which in turn is covered with a protective film.The film is then peeled off and the metal fixed inside the pocket ready for exposure. It’s easy to handle in dim light and doesn’t need a darkroom.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/82metalsheetinfilmpocket.jpg

The exposure happens in this box with UV-lamps. The film pocket with metal inside is place on the glass on top of the lamps and pressed from the backside with the blue foam. That’s very important so there is absolutely no gap in between film and metal. A small buckle in the metal can already mess things up…

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/83UVbox.jpg

Both sides are done one after the other and then the metal goes into a developer bath for a couple of minutes. If everything goes right the result looks like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/84metalsheetsdeveloped.jpg

The blue stuff is the photoresist that will protect the metal during etching. The actual etching then follows in this tank in a bath of “Natriumpersulfat” ( you figure out what that is in English :-) at around 45°C.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/85etchingtank.jpg

It’s not exactly healthy stuff that you would give to a 12 year old but not more dangerous than some of the other stuff we work with like paint and glue. It doesn’t eat fingers but has a great appetite for clothes:-)
In the photo on the left side you see the heater and through the clear tube on the right comes air from a small pump that creates bubbles to move the bath.
Depending on the material thickness and how fresh the bath is it takes in between 10 and 30 minutes to etch a sprue.
If everything goes as planned the final result may look like this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/86etchedsprueexample.jpg

The pieces don’t look as shiny as some of the ones you can buy but they will after individual treatment when I put them on the model.
I’m especially happy about how these radiator grids came out. Meshes of that sort are the trickiest things to make because you see every little mistake and basically can’t do anything about them later because you’ll only bend the whole thing.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/87etchedradiatorgrid.jpg

They are the best I made so far and finer than any you can buy. For reference….each of the horizontal stripes is 0.1mm high. Now I only have to get them in place without messing them up…..gulp! :-)
I don’t want to pretend everything was a piece of cake though. This here is a case of uneven etching:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/88notsowelletchedsprue.jpg

I cut the top part of the sprue off during etching to save some of the smaller bits ( otherwise they would have disappeared:-) but the rest can still be used after some filing.
I also had a case that somehow went completely wrong for whatever reason but I gave it a second go and that worked. Here is an overview of all the sprues:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/89alletched.jpg

I won’t get into detail what everything is. Some you can figure out easily and the rest will follow when I put them on the model….hopefully:-)
For a start here’s one piece that is not going directly on the model ( no it’s not 1/20 ….it’s 5cm wide) !!!! :-)
It’s a chassis plate that I will put on top of the model’s box to hide the injection mark in the clear cover. The untreated piece looks like that:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/90rawchassisplate.jpg

I only etched the chassis number in this case.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/91realchassisplate.jpg

To do the black printing I rebuilt it also in Freehand using the photo as an underlay and got it made as a dry transfer ( a.k.a. Letraset ). This is simply rubbed onto the metal. I polished the metal first and then held it into the cold etching bath for about two minutes. That takes away the shine evenly and makes it look matt like the real thing!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/jaykay640/92finishedchassisplate.jpg

By the way…..while making all this I managed to convince David Durst of scaleracecars.com to do a run of his nice SRC nuts and bolts set in brass because they will be useful for this model and others of the same period and I couldn’t find them from anyone else. They are nicer to use from a rubber backed sheet than my homemade stuff. If you are interested in them as well you may wanna get them now. Don’t know if he does more ….and no I don’t get anything for this advertisement:-)

That’s it for now! I don’t know if I will do another update before Christmas but surely in the new year. Seasons greetings to everyone and a happy new year!
Enjoy!

No way :eek:




....... great!




......sorry no words.

What the.....
This build is insane! Fantastic update!
please find the time and get us another update before Christmas???

:eek2:

incredible stuff!!!!

Tim

I have a couple of questions for you. I'm located in Portugal and I can't find nickel silver nor stainless steel in sheets so thin (0.1mm~1mm). The only thing I can find is brass...Where do you get your stuff from?
To etch brass I use ferric chloride FeCl3 (250gr to 600ml of water). What is you mix with the natriumpersulfate (sodium persulfate ;) )?

...amazing...


-Pedro.

Pedro

My supplier is here:

http://www.saemann-aetztechnik.de/

Don't know about his english language skills but if you need help let me know. He has the sheets with photoresist and without.

The natriumpersulfat mixes 250-300g per litre of water. It's supposed to etch quicker than ferric chloride ( and therefore more precisely ) and it's a bit clearer during etching.

Hope that helps

Jaykay


I have a couple of questions for you. I'm located in Portugal and I can't find nickel silver nor stainless steel in sheets so thin (0.1mm~1mm). The only thing I can find is brass...Where do you get your stuff from?
To etch brass I use ferric chloride FeCl3 (250gr to 600ml of water). What is you mix with the natriumpersulfate (sodium persulfate ;) )?

...amazing...


-Pedro.

Stopped. In. My. Tracks.

This is awesome stuff - I was fairly happy with the kit straight out of the box!

Holy Crap!
Your updates are like a class in how to make your own model.

Looking forward to more updates.

Chris

I'm quitting building my Sauber C9.... It is pointless, JayKay makes me feel bad... Now everything I touch feel like I have two hams instead of hands.....
Buh! Buh!