2003 Dodge Viper

Detroit serves up a new lucky number. 500.

The 2001 North American International Auto Show in Detroit played host to more than a few performance vehicles (Nissan’s Z Concept, BMW’s M3 Convertible, and Mazda’s RX-8 come to mind), but perhaps most surprising was the new “500/500/500” Viper from Dodge and the beleaguered American arm of DaimlerChrysler.

But let’s take a trip back shall we? Back to when Chrysler was still struggling, but was on the verge of a styling breakthrough that would carry them through the 90s. The year was 1989, the setting was again the Detroit Auto Show. In front of the usual room filled with auto “journalists,” Chrysler’s Advanced Styling Studio rolled out the stunning Dodge Viper RT/10 concept.

The reaction to this serpent on steroids was positive to say the least. According to Chrysler, Dodge received potential orders for the car before the show ended. What would become of the RT/10 is what many in this country consider to be America’s only true supercar.

More than a decade later, Chrysler is in trouble again. This time thanks in large to their German handlers. Despite the financial constraints, DC was still able to pump up America’s favorite snake for it’s first major redesign since the 1989 debut. The decision to show the new Viper at NAIAS may have been a move to build confidence in Chrysler because this vehicle is still more than a year away from hitting the streets. Therefore, many technical details have not been released, probably because they aren’t set in stone yet.

What we do know is that the 2003 Viper will come with an 8.3L (in other words, 505 inches of cubic displacement) V10 with a more-than welcome 500 bhp and 500 lbs-ft of torque. The chassis has been reworked for improved handling dynamics. The wheelbase has been stretched 2.6 inches while the overall car is close to a half-inch shorter. The overall curb weight for the new Viper is expected to be around 67 lbs. less than the current RT/10 roadster.

Exterior design is always an issue of discussion., and there’s no exception here. While the looks are familiarly Viper, they also bring to mind a certain Chevrolet sports car. Overall, it’s a crisp, clean design. But looks are subjective, so we’ll let you decide. Interior design is also a practice of evolution. Dodge seems to have fixed some things than needed to be fixed, but still remains true to it’s “Viperness.” It’s a nice design, but nothing really stands out.

This latest Viper appears more than able to hold onto it’s perch atop the American sports car arena, but does it have the qualities to compete in the world market? To tell you the truth, that really doesn’t matter to us because this car looks to be one hell of a ride.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/img/viper/viper1.jpg
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http://www.automotiveforums.com/img/viper/viper91.jpg
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Article Copyright 2001 Mike Cervantes.
Photos Copyright Daimler Chrysler.

Now that's what i call an awesome Viper. I wouldn't mind getting my body in one of those Vipers. It would be my dream come true if i drive one of them all over town. The heck with riding it around town i might ride it all over the United States, or maybe the whole western hemisphere that has land.

I'm glad. This will make roadsters more popular. The GTS is awesome, so is the GTS-R Concept Car but the RT/10 was always the favored one in my family. ;) Most people nowadays think of the roadster as a small perfectly balanced Mazda Miata or a torquey BMW M roadster or Z3. But Chryster proves that the American muscule/exotic can also be an increadible roadster that has extreame preformance.

*shrugs* the front part looks like a Honda S2000 to me. :bloated:

Originally posted by superposition
*shrugs* the front part looks like a Honda S2000 to me. :bloated:

That makes three times someone's said they think the Viper looks like the S2000. (And not vice-versa) Hmmm...

I can see why people would think it looks like an S2000, but really it is the same front that has been 'chisled' down. It is no longer volumptuous looking, they've made it edgier.

..............I dont get it. I mean dodge had it going on with the original viper. OH!! her sweet body lines!!!!!! Now dodge makes the bad choice of making it all boxy!¿!?! Why dont they just take off that dumb old bar on the RT/10 nad make it a real convertable!!! Sorry but they could also stand to put the cool side scoop things that are behind the front tires back on the Viper too. Cause the ones they put on this new one are so small. I cant belive I'm doggin a Viper!!! :confused: And did they put in of those hidden roll-bar things that activat when the car starts to flip?? :confused: But heck I'ed sure as H@#L drive one. But i mean Dodge has got alotta technology at their hand being part of Daimler-Chrysler whos partnered with Benz. Look at all the possiblities!!! Well thats all i can think of......get pissed at me if you wanna but thats what i gotta say.

I havent seen this mettioned anywhere else, but the dodge exec that is ahead of the new viper ( i have autoweeks write up) and he called the 500 hp conservative, he said its gonna be at least 525.

letts steal the pics

That is one hella ugly damn car!!!!!:apuke:

That bitch is bad. I'd drive the hell out of it and get hella pussy. Girls would just cream in their pants after seeing one of those:D

Originally posted by KooLLaiD
That is one hella ugly damn car!!!!!:apuke:

Klueless:

That's just too funny... a guy in a VW Passat calling a Viper ugly.:rolleyes: Why don't you put a picture of your car up here and compare? The Germans do EVERYTHING better, right? Yeah right, the Germans completely F_cked up a healthy growing company like Chrysler to pay off their crippling debt.

Now the S Class looks like a freaking Intrepid. For someone that hates ricers, your argument sounds awfully similar (if I can't have it, then it sucks and is ugly...). Why don't you go down the HP/liter path next?

Get a life.

Well said, bubba. :)

I think the Viper engineers should get the hell out of the wind tunnell. Its a good think Larry Shinoda passed away so he didnt have to see such an ugly car. The 2003 Viper in general looks like a cheap knock off of the Camaro. The bubbly front looks like a Dodge Dakota and the rear just ends like the new Vette. From the side the car looks like an ironing board and from the top it looks like a tug boat. It has absolutely no nice lines. The Viper was a beutiful car, they really screwed up a good thing. I've seen Miata's that look nicer than the new Viper. We can only pray that Dodge realizes this before 2003.
-Pat

omg RIPPED apart!

=)

My friend (my 17 yr old friend) thinks hes getting a Viper.
Those things are damn purty.
Quick too.
Prolly not as quick as the 02 vette... ;)

and its still frikin BAD! :sun:

that is an awsome looking car :flash: :flash:

Originally posted by 68vette
I think the Viper engineers should get the hell out of the wind tunnell. Its a good think Larry Shinoda passed away so he didnt have to see such an ugly car. The 2003 Viper in general looks like a cheap knock off of the Camaro. The bubbly front looks like a Dodge Dakota and the rear just ends like the new Vette. From the side the car looks like an ironing board and from the top it looks like a tug boat. It has absolutely no nice lines. The Viper was a beutiful car, they really screwed up a good thing. I've seen Miata's that look nicer than the new Viper. We can only pray that Dodge realizes this before 2003.
-Pat

Larry Shinoda was a good designer, but he had his share of uglies too. My good friend was in charge of getting Larry's place in the Ford, GM and Japanese-American Museums. Larry did a stint over at White Freightliner too. I like Shinoda's styling, but he wasn't perfect by any means. Having met Larry, I think that he would have liked the new Viper, and he would have found ways to clean up the lines to make them more distinct.

The convertible will be coming out next summer, so you probably won't see many changes. The big question is whether or not DC will be producing the GTS Coupe version of the Gen 3. As it stands right now, they are not going to do it. The closest thing that you will see to one is the Competition Coupe, which is strictly a track car. There will only be 25 made and they are not a replacement for the GTS-R's that dominated Le Mans, Daytona and Sebring. Oreca has been dropped by DC as its factory race team (which also means that the LMP program is up in the air too).

Before you get on the wagon comparing the looks of a Viper to a Miata, take a look at this car as an evolutionary change( and not the revolutionary change that the original RT and GTS's were). The purpose of this body style was to get the production car over 200 mph (out of the showroom) and an affordable price. It's hard for any factory to develop tasteful looking evolutionary cars. I personally don't care for the Gen 3 convertible at all, and the GTS is more palatable. I think that the guys a DC 'feminized" the Viper.

JMO.

Brad

Originally posted by jay@af


That makes three times someone's said they think the Viper looks like the S2000. (And not vice-versa) Hmmm...

Make it 4 man!! New Viper rear end looks much nicer to the eye than previous generation for me. Overall I give it a 10/10 for the re-design.

I can just imagine how hard it is to keep this monster under control. Where can you use the 500+hp.

Let's put it this way, the torque makes the Viper a real handful even at the track (as in road racing circuits). From what I understand, it can hurt you at the drag races (even though I have never ventured on to a 1/4 mile track). In reality, the torque sharply reduces your margin for error.

Once you get used to it (and learn to respect it), it is a real rush. You just have to do your thinking with your big brain (and not the little one below your waste).

Have a great Veteran's Day weekend.

Brad

Excuse me while I wipe the drool from my mouth:eek2:
Thats got to be one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen!!!!:angel:

Originally posted by viperluvr2002
Excuse me while I wipe the drool from my mouth:eek2:
Thats got to be one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen!!!!:angel:

Thanks for the nice words. I'm sure that you can put a Viper on your target screen if you got a college degree and worked your tail off. It fun to own a car like this, but even more fun when you don't owe any money on it. I also have a very understanding wife who lets me follow my passions (which also means that she lets my Corvette keep my GTS company in the garage). My kids really love these cars too.

Be safe.

Brad

How is the maintenance for Viper?

Oil changes every 3,000 miles using synthetic oils, fluids twice a year. Everything else is covered under extended warranty. From my experience they are pretty reliable cars.

Brad

That doesn't sound too bad compare to the horror story from Ferrari owners.

:flipa: This isnt one of the better looking vipers. although a great car it looks to much like an NSX or avanger. id still drive it but not happy with its looks

Originally posted by Prelude1897
That bitch is bad. I'd drive the hell out of it and get hella pussy. Girls would just cream in their pants after seeing one of those:D

:eek: LOL!! :lol2: :lol2: :hehe:

Originally posted by F20C
That doesn't sound too bad compare to the horror story from Ferrari owners.

You mean this kind of horror? This is what can happen if you have a car that exceeds a drivers abilities...

Brad

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1545079&a=13495668&p=51760842&Sequence=0
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1545079&a=13495668&p=51760831&Sequence=0
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1545079&a=13495668&p=51760840&Sequence=0
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1545079&a=13495668&p=51760843&Sequence=0

NOOOO! not a ferrari!:crying:

I seen those pics as well.

Originally posted by F20C
I seen those pics as well.

They were taken last summer at Willow Springs Raceway. The weekend before two Vipers were totalled on the same back straight.

Brad

Was the Viper yellow?

I think that they were both blue. I was not at the track that weekend, but it was a VCA event that it happened at. They took the wrong line up through turn 6 and hit the back wall (after plowing the back 40).

Brad

What are the clubs for Viper owners?

The only club that I know of is the Viper Club of America. Their web site is http://www.viperclub.org.

I don't hang out with these people. Not my style. I like the people who don't take themselves too seriously.

Brad

I heard Vipers have alot the the same suspention components as the Dodge Dikota pick up truck!! Is this true??? thats what I have heard form someone forgot where Just curious.

PS: 6 extra cylenders!! For what??? Its good to know my 4 cylender makes more HP then a viper and gets on avarange 24/29 city/freeway gas milage.:rolleyes:

Well you modded the hell out of your car. And you have more HP than a stock RT-10, go against the GTS, GT2, Vennom 805, or the GTS-R.

The Viper has more potential than your car does.
As for the suspension. Where did you hear that?

Originally posted by Polygon
Well you modded the hell out of your car. And you have more HP than a stock RT-10, go against the GTS, GT2, Vennom 805, or the GTS-R.

The Viper has more potential than your car does.
As for the suspension. Where did you hear that?

Well it better have more potential with 6 more cylenders. Thats a lame uncompairable statement. I talked to some guy on the phone one evening for about 3 hours who works for quite a few large magazines such as road & track and Car & Driver etc. He does freelance work so he claims. We got to talking about how thay where doing this big Supercar compairison test drive for the magazine and he invited me to come drive the cars. But of course it was on a weekday and I had to work. So we got to talking and he mentioned about the Viper and what a peace of shit it was and how the suspention was shaired in some way by the dekota and the engine was form some 70's technology car with 2 cylenders graphed on. Some wild claims.

Well, I meant that as in if you mod the Viper as much as you have modded your car it would probably not be street legal.

As for the suspension, that is strange. I will admit that the Viper's handling isn't the best but I doubt that it could do 1.03 Gs on the Dakota suspension.

Interesting to say the least.

Chris:

What are you smoking? The comments that you state are totally off of the wall.

First of all, the pushrod V-10 that is in the Viper is based on the legendary 360 V-8. The intake and conversion from cast iron to aluminum was facilitated by Dodge and Lamborghini (which Chrysler owned at the time). Did your bright freelance writer mention anything about the hemi head construction on the Viper powerplant? Look at Chrysler's track record in racing. There is not a single factory (including Porsche and Ferrari) that can match Chrysler's dominance in racing (ala NASCAR, NHRA and more recently Le Mans and ALMS). The Dodge Superbirds were going over 230 mph in the 1960's.

You seem to be under the ricer dillusions that the technologies like W engines, VTEC, hybrids are all new. Get a life! The W engines and VTEC were developed in the 1930's! Hybrids have also been around since the 1930's. Audi had racers running over 230 mph in the 1930's. Stop believing all of the crap that is printed in those stupid car rags and do some real homework. They are nothing but propoganda and high paid advertising.

As for your comments about taking a six banger engine and making it put out more than a Viper (GTS-R or Venom), you are absolutely right. If you have enough money, you can do this to any engine or car (if you want it to perform better than a Viper). The problem is that it will not be street legal (as Polygon said), and it will be unreliable as hell. It will never produce comparable torque numbers because it lacks cubic inches. You also forget to mention that you will have to spool up your engine to 4,500 rpmm to even touch the torque and power curve. On a Viper you get 490+ lb-ft of torque from idle (450 rpm) to 5,400 rpm.

Since when does a Dakota truck have a coil-over Koni suspension? Since when did they have a double A-arm layout that had a lower A-arm that was comparable in size to a NASCAR race car (2 1/2 inches wide by 1 1/2 inches tall at the base)? What in the hell are you talking about? Why don't you mention that the Viper shares things like:
- the mirrors with the Stealth
- the emergency brake from a Caravan
- the gas cap from a minivan
- the turn signal from a ...
- the license plate frame from a Yugo?

What's your point? What are you trying to say (or are you just here to make insinuations about Chrysler's engineering or quality)? Are you insinuating that a Dakota handles as well as a Viper or vice versa? As Polygon said, since when can a Dakota pull 1.03 G's on a skidpad? You know the answer.

In the end, you can make any piece of sh*t put out more power or even go faster than a stock Viper (BFD). The bottom line is that it will probably cost you more than a Viper to make, and that in the end it will still be a piece of sh*t. Quit trying to demonstrate your ignorance in places like this and do your homework. You are way too predictable in your ricer argument. I am truly surprised that you didn't mention anything about HP/liter or cubic inch? If you made these statements at the Viper BB or the Mopar web sites, they would rip you a new sphincter.

Get a life! Go back to the toilet and do some more arm chair quarterbacking. If you read enough, maybe one of those rags will give you a job spewing their pabulum.

Originally posted by Viper 10
Chris:

What are you smoking? The comments that you state are totally off of the wall.

Thay where not my coments 1st of all. Thay where thing I heard of so I thought I would ask and you get all defencive. WTF???? All I was trying to imply was that what someone told me was so far out I wanted to conferm his bullshit talk. I see the guy from time to time and want to tell him he is full of shit to his face . Personaly I don't like the guy after meeting him for the 1st time.

Originally posted by CHRIS200T


Thay where not my coments 1st of all. Thay where thing I heard of so I thought I would ask and you get all defencive. WTF???? All I was trying to imply was that what someone told me was so far out I wanted to conferm his bullshit talk. I see the guy from time to time and want to tell him he is full of shit to his face . Personaly I don't like the guy after meeting him for the 1st time.

Chris:

There isn't much constructive discussion that could come out of raising garbage like that. If you post opinions that aren't yours, then say so. The assumption is that if you post it (and don't say anything like what do you think? or something else), then why shouldn't I believe that it is also your opinion? The stuff that you heard is total garbage and it is a debate that is not based on facts or intelligent and rational thought.

What if I said that I heard from someone say that your car was once a beer can, what would you say? The only thing that I will apologize for is the gravity of my reply. Think about your post before you throw it on a BB, or stand back and wait to get get replies like mine.

By the way, your friend is full of poop.

Brad

Originally posted by Viper 10
Chris:

What are you smoking? The comments that you state are totally off of the wall.

First of all, the pushrod V-10 that is in the Viper is based on the legendary 360 V-8. The intake and conversion from cast iron to aluminum was facilitated by Dodge and Lamborghini (which Chrysler owned at the time). Did your bright freelance writer mention anything about the hemi head construction on the Viper powerplant? Look at Chrysler's track record in racing. There is not a single factory (including Porsche and Ferrari) that can match Chrysler's dominance in racing (ala NASCAR, NHRA and more recently Le Mans and ALMS). The Dodge Superbirds were going over 230 mph in the 1960's.

You seem to be under the ricer dillusions that the technologies like W engines, VTEC, hybrids are all new. Get a life! The W engines and VTEC were developed in the 1930's! Hybrids have also been around since the 1930's. Audi had racers running over 230 mph in the 1930's. Stop believing all of the crap that is printed in those stupid car rags and do some real homework. They are nothing but propoganda and high paid advertising.

Ah, yes. This was what I was thinking it just didn't want to come out. :)

Dodge Vipers are cool.

Vipers kick ass.
Old school mustangs r0xed, but the new ones I dont like at all, except maybe the GTS.
Viper10 is a very smart person.
As I recall, the Viper was based on the old-school kickass Shelby Cobra, as is quite obvious if you look at the blue/white GTS Coupe =)

The Viper is, pound for pound, the greatest street-legal production car ever made. As some guy on speedvision stated recently, the Viper is all muscle and no stipulations. It just goes.
And goes it does, quite fast.

Does anyone have a Dyno from any Viper?
Im surious to see the curve as V10 mentioned its torque thru the range.
Normally you dont see even a remotely constant torque...

Also, as you, Viper10, seem to know what you are talking about, I was wondering if you had and info on the wherabouts of:
- A mark2 MR2 (I dislike the Mark 3 for some reason)
or
- A 3-series Toyota engine from a supra
or
- Some other 2.5l - 3.5l engine (either 4 or 6) that will fit where there used to be a 1.6l 4A-GE Inline4 :D

And finally...
A blower that can be squeezed in there.

Also, I have a question about body work...
If I end up putting a blower in my corolla, I wanted to make a small unidirectional cut in the side of the engine bay and bend it ever so slightly inwards to create a flowpath for the blower.
Is this: a) Legal - b) Sane

(Yes, a corolla. I really wanted a GTO, or a camaro, or any decent american car, but since I only had $1300 to spend, and Im no mechanic...)

Rice:

You are partially correct on your assessment of where the Viper's roots are from. Carroll Shelby had technical input into the development of the original RT/10. The influence for the GTS Coupe was from two cars, the Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe and the Ferrari GTO. Peter Brock, who ran the Cobra Le Mans racing campaign during the '60s, was a direct contributor to the development of the GTS.

The dyno's on Vipers show very even (and parallel) torque curves. RWHP driveline loss is 10% (compared to most other cars that lose 20% or more). My stock GTS is putting down 417 RWHP (stock flywheel HP is 450-460 HP).

I cannot tell you where to pick up the powerplant that you are looking for. I would like to know why you would want to do this swap? I think that you might reconsider this mod, because you might find that the change in weight and HP might exceed the Toyota's chassis and suspension parameters. The result would be a dangerous car that can't handle or stop, or is undriveable. Added HP will do nothing but reduce your margin for error.

Save your money and enroll in a good high performance driving school. Good driving techniques can make up for tons of performance mods any day of the week. I have attended more than 20 driving schools (mostly weekend events).

Good luck and be safe.

Brad

Well, obviously the weight would be a consideration.
I would replace the suspension with a newer one.
As for the chassis, that really wouldnt be a problem unless I tried to throw a really big engine in. As for a V6, I dont beleive the weight difference would approach the dangerous level.

Anyways... as I said, Id rather just find a vette or a GTO in decent shape, becuase in order to get a corolla up to the level of performance that I could get out of a stock '85 vette would take enormous amounts of money anyway, and it would simply make more sense otget a whole new vehicle.

The KBB value for my car is $2500, which is pretty damned good condidering its a 12yr old car. (The engine is in unusually excellent shape for a 4banger)
As I mentioned, I payed $1400 for the car (but it included a really nice alpine stereo thats worth $200, and I figure it adds $100 to the RS) and its now worth $2500. Quite a find...

Anyways... I also would just like to mention something quick: My name.
Its becuase when I was young and stupid, I always thought that loud, flashy cars with uber-tinted windows, 500 inch wheels and spoilers that knock down birds were the greatest cars.
Then I grew up and realized that I was an idiot.
Hence... Fried Rice.


*edit*
I just realized what it sez under yer name.
Your vette...
I have questions :D

Where are you?
(excuse my illogic for a moment... is M. Beach in Manhatten? or anywhere in NY?)
What condition is the body/engine in (if not the same)?
Miles?
Are you willing to sell? If so, how much?

Vipers rule. And what the heck is with all the trash talk? A Vette faster then a Viper? Fat chance. Stock Vipers are still faster then alot of the tuned Vettes.

As for the Ferrari....ouch, but I've got an awesome set of tools! I can fix it, really I can! :D

Fried:

I live inManhattan Beach, CA (Southern Cal). The C4 is an '85 and is not for sale. It's got 156,000 miles of enjoyment. It was built up with some bolt-ons and taken back down to almost stock.

I still think that you should save your money and use it for driving school. I think that an engine upgrade like you are thinking of is a waste and could create handling and stopping issues. JMO.

I plan to give the Viper and the Vette to my kids.

Take care and be safe.

Brad

who ever doesnt like this car should be shot! SHOT! look at it, its a beauty. Id give my car x10 to drive that beast. Pull up to a little pimped out honda, rev the engine and watch their face. haha jk. but still, who wouldnt love this car?! damn

i dont like it.. so what now ur gonna shoot me?:finger: (j/k)

it looks cool.. not my favorite car but it looks cool.. saw it at the International Auto Show in Miami.. i mean i wouldnt mind owning it.. but id rather have a lambo or a ferrrari or porsche or SKYLINE.. but thats just me:D

I see the Viper as a True Muscle Car..
The sound, the cubes.. Nothing comes near it.. In time it will definately be a classic.

I see a farrari driving on the road.. Look yer looks nice..

See a Viper on the road.. can't stop looking.

well they say there is no replacment for displacment, but 8.3 liters is a waste of gas, isnt a z06 just as fast with 5.7 litters, I think dodge over did it, I mean how hard could it be to engineer less displacment and get the same horsepower

Now I am not dumb and gonna say honda does 1 liter = 120hp, thats cuz their fkn cars way 2000lbs and need 0 torque, but i mean the m3 used engineering and squeezes plenty of juice......just wondering, anyone have any ideas why?

JBL they can squeeze a lot more than you think out of the V10. All the Vipers use the same exact engine block and there are ones that produce over 750HP.

Thats better :D

But still, the Mustang GT at leasts gets some juice,

260HP 305Torque

Japanese 4.7L

245HP 315Torque

thats a little better then the viper (hp/L)

Well, I guess that depends on the Viper.

if I had a Viper I would not complain, dont get me wrong =)

That thing definately "borrowed" some styling from the Mustang and Vette.

Originally posted by easyduzit4
That thing definately "borrowed" some styling from the Mustang and Vette.

Ya, rigggghhhhht. :rolleyes:

yeha....it used 4 wheels, a engine and a body and has seating....big copy =)

Originally posted by JBL85
yeha....it used 4 wheels, a engine and a body and has seating....big copy =)

Hahaha, thats too good. :D :p

Viper 10,
Do you mind me asking where you are from? what viper do you drive? I take it you much prefer the viper over the vette!! good thinking hehe

Originally posted by Jimmy2times
Viper 10,
Do you mind me asking where you are from? what viper do you drive? I take it you much prefer the viper over the vette!! good thinking hehe

Jimmy:

I live in Los Angeles (CA). At this point I prefer the Viper over anything else out there.

I am very excited about the Ford GT-40 and hope that Bob Lutz will do a massive makeover on the C6 Corvette Project that he has labelled "Viper Killer". My allegiance does not lie with a manufacturer, it lies with the company that produces the best performing car (that will also stir my emotions). The Viper and the GT-40 prototype do this for me (the current C5 does not).

Of course these are my personal tastes and opinions. I don't care for cars or manufacturers that compromise a cars performance to appease women and people with soft butts. GT cars do exactly that.

We now have 3 road racing venues in Southern Cal, and the weather is warming up again.

Brad

brad,
nice! i just wondered cos i met a guy in florida ages ago, couldnt remember where he was from but he had his vette and viper down and he was telling me about his wife!! you just reminded me of him, That guy was cool though he let me take his viper for a quick spin!! sweeet
it was a black RT/10

Originally posted by Prelude1897
That bitch is bad. I'd drive the hell out of it and get hella pussy. Girls would just cream in their pants after seeing one of those:D

so you can't get women without a car like that....that's sad

Yeah no shit, prelude, girls dont get off looking at a guys car, they got off at the idea you have money and they can suck u for it.....get a chick in a civic or something and then you know you can spit decent game....I drove a maxima junior year in high school and got plenty of chicks and even nailed one in it.

A nice car helps to get good girls, but you should be able to without the car. I drive a 00 Infiniti G20, and girls love that car, and I have also nailed a few in it, but I had a lot of girl friends before I even got that car. But overall a nice clean car is good, girls like that shit

I drive a Lexus now and I get less girls, so this weekend im going to get a Honda Accorn or see if I can get a 2002 Maxima....I have a GF too, so i guess thats why I get less girls hehe, anyways yeah nice car is fun to drive but its the wrong way to pick up chicks.

:frog:

Depends man, I picked up two chicks about a week ago in my car. I was just cruising around through downtown and they were waving at me so I pulled over and they come over. So its not just your car, its your style

i didn't buy a car to help me pick up chicks. any chick who would want to be with me to be seen in my car....isn't a girl I want around. There are lots of chicks in the world....I will pass on the attention seeking, money grubbing hookers.

Yeah its a little different down her in Cali, especially in my city.....you should see the cars in our parking lot, a Mercedes isnt impressive, the car that got the most attention was a Saleen mustang

a saleen mustang? oh man.. i hate mustangs.. no offense to anyone but its my opinion..

I dont like em much, but once I drove it I loved it....

Originally posted by Viper 10
Fried:

I live inManhattan Beach, CA (Southern Cal). The C4 is an '85 and is not for sale. It's got 156,000 miles of enjoyment. It was built up with some bolt-ons and taken back down to almost stock.

I still think that you should save your money and use it for driving school. I think that an engine upgrade like you are thinking of is a waste and could create handling and stopping issues. JMO.

I plan to give the Viper and the Vette to my kids.

Take care and be safe.

Brad

Manhattan Beach? I live in Redondo! Iv'e seen a blue Viper like yours driving around, maybe it's you...

RX7, I was just wondering, how reliable is yoru RX7...I never talked to anyone with one

Originally posted by RX7_4_Eva


Manhattan Beach? I live in Redondo! Iv'e seen a blue Viper like yours driving around, maybe it's you...

RX:

There are only a couple of blue/white GTS's in the South Bay. It was probably me because I use mine as a daily driver. My license plate is VIPER 10. If you see me around, just wave me down.

Ruby's in Redondo Beach is starting to gather on saturday mornings from 7 to 9 in the morning. Maybe I'll see you around.

Take care and be safe.

Brad

your guyzes are all rediculas, me and my buddies all got one and we go racing crazy up and down the streets! It's peckin' mint. We got all the hot snappers we can handle, and this car should get lots more. As far as the guy with the El Camino. My Dad's gots one of those ones, and it's all minted and chromed-up! My dad's the mintests. Your guyses are all dum.

Jack Leggs

Originally posted by taanku racing
your guyzes are all rediculas, me and my buddies all got one and we go racing crazy up and down the streets! It's peckin' mint. We got all the hot snappers we can handle, and this car should get lots more. As far as the guy with the El Camino. My Dad's gots one of those ones, and it's all minted and chromed-up! My dad's the mintests. Your guyses are all dum.

Jack Leggs

I must be getting old, because I have no idea what you just said...

Brad:confused: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Viper 10


I must be getting old, because I have no idea what you just said...

Brad:confused: :rolleyes:
Hey, I'm 24....and I don't consider that old....and I had no idea what he said either! :)

HAHA.....im 18 and lost about that =)

Hey I like the New Viper, and also VIPER 10's ride too:cool: The one thing I don't like, though, is the leg room. I considered a 2K Hennessey, but I just coudn't "fit" into the cockpit.

I heard a rumor that the pedals are adjustable. Is this true?

Brad!!! Hey I live in Manhattan Beach too!!! Vipers have been my favorite car for years and I would die to ride in one...... Maybe we can can meet up sometime...??? You wouldnt happen to live in the Village would you?? Because I lived there for a year and I saw a blue one just like yours every now and then... I live off Avation now near Artesia... Im leaving for college (Georgia) as soon as my senior year is over.. Im at Mira Costa right now.... You mentioned that you have kids... where do they go to school????

Originally posted by 87AccordsterLX
Brad!!! Hey I live in Manhattan Beach too!!! Vipers have been my favorite car for years and I would die to ride in one...... Maybe we can can meet up sometime...??? You wouldnt happen to live in the Village would you?? Because I lived there for a year and I saw a blue one just like yours every now and then... I live off Avation now near Artesia... Im leaving for college (Georgia) as soon as my senior year is over.. Im at Mira Costa right now.... You mentioned that you have kids... where do they go to school????

Hi Nathan:

I do live across from Manhattan Village in Liberty Village (behind Trader Joe's). I would be happy to meet you and take you for a spin. You'll have to wait about 6 weeks, because I am having my engine crated and shipped back to Arrow Racing for a complete rebuild.

I use my Snake as a daily driver, so I am sure that you have seen me around town near Ralph's, Bristol Farms or at the Pier. I know of one other Snake in the area like mine in Redondo Beach (there is a guy who has a garage queen up in PV).

Drop me an email at bhchang@earthlink.net . I have to drive my beat up old Corvette until my engine comes back.

See you around. By the way, my kids are real young. My oldest is in 3rd grade at Meadows Elementary, and my daughter is in pre-school at American Martyrs.

Take care and be safe.

Brad

Originally posted by 87AccordsterLX
Brad!!! Hey I live in Manhattan Beach too!!! Vipers have been my favorite car for years and I would die to ride in one...... Maybe we can can meet up sometime...??? You wouldnt happen to live in the Village would you?? Because I lived there for a year and I saw a blue one just like yours every now and then... I live off Avation now near Artesia... Im leaving for college (Georgia) as soon as my senior year is over.. Im at Mira Costa right now.... You mentioned that you have kids... where do they go to school????


Nathan....

Talk about weird coincidences.... I live in Manhattan as well as you two. I go to Costa as a Sophomore. I think Iv'e seen you drive your accord out of the parking lot before. I live right across the strret from the school.

Brad, you have kids and drive a Viper, how does that work out....I couldnt drive my 300zx b/c my little sister hated sitting so low.....and that car is high compared to a viper.

Does your wife have a grocery getter?

Originally posted by JBL85
Brad, you have kids and drive a Viper, how does that work out....I couldnt drive my 300zx b/c my little sister hated sitting so low.....and that car is high compared to a viper.

Does your wife have a grocery getter?

JB:

My wife does have the urban assault vehicle minivan. Ironically, I also have a C4 Corvette in the garage. I have an incredible wife who understands the importance of cars to me. She trusts me to do all of my fast driving on the road courses and not on the street. I am blessed.

My 3 kids are always fighting to get a ride in the Viper. My 3 year old boy is the biggest car fanatic around. They have all been on the race track with me, and have gone on several cruises.

While my Snake is out of commission for the next 6 weeks, I have been cruising in the old worn out C4. The kids like the targa roof. The Viper will be ready in time for the summer and track season.

See you guys around.

Brad

Sounds like you got it made......i will just hope I am over cars by the time I get older...I dont want to kill myself.

I never got over cars. I've driven performance cars for my whole life and love it as much as I did when I was a kid. As I got older, the toys got more expensive, and I had less to prove.

I never was a street racer, so all of my time was on road courses. Refining my skills over the years and understanding my limits always makes things enjoyable.

I have 3 herniated disks in my back from my sports cars... I'll never give them up.

Take care and be safe.

Brad

I hope that's how it is for me... I love cars and I hope I never lose interest in them. Brad, I'll email you in a week or so to see whats going on and maybe we can meet up as soon as you get her back in one piece... J_Spec, What's your name?? That is pretty wierd that we go to the same school being that people from all over the world use this forum... Ya there are 2 other people besides myself with 87-88 accords at costa...but you can set mine apart rather easily...just listen for my intake/exhaust it's really loud. The only other kid that I could say would have one close to mine is this guy w/ a 90-93 accord white w/ rims. Its rather funny because whenever we see eachother we rev our engines purely to show off and to see who's is louder (I dont even know him). Its all good fun though. ONLY IF I HAD A VIPER!!!!!! lol...one day... When are you getting your integ? drop me an email nathan@ghalili.com... same to you Brad... It would be cool to talk cars w/ someone that actually has one worth talking about..lol..... If not I'll drop you one soon....
PEACE!!! :flash:

Its a small world after all :p

Viper10: "The germans completely f_cked up a healthy growing company like chrysler to pay off their crippling debt"

have you been buried under a rock or something? the chrysler group is losing money, not daimler-benz--even before daimlerchrysler came. now, as like back then, the mercedes brand is still making money--more so than ever before. the mitsubishi and chrysler brands, however, are losing money. chrysler still has the same problems it always had--mainly quality issues. they had this problem before daimler-benz came in, and they still have it now. and how can you associate the s-class with the intrepid? they look no where similar. name a part of the s-class that's anywhere near an intrepid. in fact, find someone else who thinks an s-class looks like an intrepid. you might as well say that the 3-series looks like a neon.

now, don't get me wrong, i think the new viper is nice--nicer than the old one, even. although the interior looks a bit cheap. the stereo looks like it's been lifted right off the grand cherokee (or a dodge caravan, for that matter), the overall quality of the interior seems a bit tacky for a car of its intended price range. but overall, it's an improvement. and if that's what you think, then that's about all i'll agree with you.

well you are definitly entittled to your opinion... all I have to say is that for a car to have 450hp and 490 lb/ft tourqe give or take a lilttle.. it doesnt need to have a 4 star interior... if you pull up next to a viper at a red light.. your interior doesnt seem to hold much weight anymore.. not to mention the fact that every interior is capable of a little modifacation... it's easyier to buy a stereo than it is to buy a 8.0 liter v10... and with top speeds of 190+ mph your not really thinking about your interior as much as you are about every car bluring by... sorry Im just a big time dodge fan and I think you have to give more credit to them then that....

Well hehe...
Ima add my two cents here I guess.
Personally, I don't like the new Viper like I like the Gen1 and Gen2 ones.
But that doesn't mean that I don't droool on this picture as if I was leaking. For sure not. I like the car.
But the "original" Viper is a lot more masculine (the usual phallus shape like on all good cars: E-Type, Maranello, Viper etc.) and these curves...
Wow... I mean, the new "Snake" has the long hood as well, but it doesn't look muscular due to the lack of curves in the body's shape. The old one looks like a trained male body with a good six-pack (no, not the one you drink, the one you get when you DON'T drink) and all.
And that Passat driver's comment really puts again a bad light on Germans. I mean, it's okay if he doesn't like, but wow... For no reason? FUCKIN UGLY or sth... Wow... What a good argumentation.
Im german too, and I hope I won't get a reply like that passat dude got from Viper 10 (high five, m8, you got it right with your cars and all). I dont see no reasons for that atm, too. :)
So... Yea, I have to agree that I don't think the S-Class looks like an Intreprid tho. S-Class looks better... But... There are a lot of crappy german cars, too, so the German cars are not always better.
I only have TWO german cars on my wish-list, too:
These are: AUDI S8 and AUDI RS4.

Peace out, doods!

Yeah american and german cars aint all that.....its all about the imports.....reliability and speed in one.... :D

Originally posted by pismeov
Viper10: "The germans completely f_cked up a healthy growing company like chrysler to pay off their crippling debt"

have you been buried under a rock or something? the chrysler group is losing money, not daimler-benz--even before daimlerchrysler came. now, as like back then, the mercedes brand is still making money--more so than ever before. the mitsubishi and chrysler brands, however, are losing money. chrysler still has the same problems it always had--mainly quality issues. they had this problem before daimler-benz came in, and they still have it now. and how can you associate the s-class with the intrepid? they look no where similar. name a part of the s-class that's anywhere near an intrepid. in fact, find someone else who thinks an s-class looks like an intrepid. you might as well say that the 3-series looks like a neon.

now, don't get me wrong, i think the new viper is nice--nicer than the old one, even. although the interior looks a bit cheap. the stereo looks like it's been lifted right off the grand cherokee (or a dodge caravan, for that matter), the overall quality of the interior seems a bit tacky for a car of its intended price range. but overall, it's an improvement. and if that's what you think, then that's about all i'll agree with you.
Pissy:

Since when does anyone buy a Viper for it's amenities and the quality of the interior? If you want cupholders and pretty cushy interiors, go buy a Corvette, NSX or Porsche. Your comments sound more like a jealous person, than that of a sports car enthusiast.

I believe that the unfriendly takeover of Chrysler by Daimler was the worse thing that could have ever happened to this blossoming American icon.

First off, boy wonder Bob Eaton ousted Bob Lutz before the merger, who happened to be credited as the visionary at Chrysler (and the only Chrysler exec who spoke and understood German because of his time with BMW). Lutz is now in a position to kick the crap out of DC at GM.

Secondly, the reason for the takeover was because Chrysler was a cash cow (with over $100 million in the bank at the time of the merger), and Daimler was on the verge of bankruptcy (insolvency). The result of the merger was that Daimler paid off a significant portion of the debt, and sold Chysler's soul in the process.

Thirdly, I would not call this a merger of companies when every significant senior exec from Chrysler left the company within a year of the merger. The German's cannot stand the management style of the Americans, and it shows.

Forth, the quality of Daimler is highly overrated. DC's quality since the merger has gotten worse, than what Chrysler was doing before... what happened to German quality? It's all marketing.

I believe that Daimler actually hurt Chrysler's racing program. The Nascar effort was committed to long before the meger. DC dropped the Viper racing program at the peak of it's dominance, and replaced it with an okay LMP effort (probably because the Chrysler LMP directly competed with the MB LMP cars). DC fired Team Oreca (who went undefeated in the Vipers of 2 1/2 seasons of Le Mans and ALMS racing (with 3 consecutive wins at Le Mans-Daytona-Sebring). Never has an American manufacturer been this dominant. Where are they now? Absolutely invisible, with no plans in the future of campaigning the Viper or any other Chrysler product in these series'. I think that what Daimler did to the racing effort has been pathetic. The only upside was their Nascar effort.

You will find that this was a merger of similar companies, rather than complimentary companies. I understand that there are taalks going on about taking Chrysler private again.

Read the book called "Taken For A Ride...How Daimler-Benz Drove Off With Chrysler" (by Vlasic and Stertz). It will tell you the painful truth about this marriage.

Brad

Very well put Brad.... Let me know when you think you'll be expecting to have her back together and we'll meet for lunch or something... you did say 6 weeks right.. think they'll finish earlier???? Hey we are going to race right...LOL... my 115hp vs. your what 460...??... I think I can take you...lol...... hey a 6 cyclinder difference is nothing.... hehe.... take care... :D

Originally posted by 87AccordsterLX
... J_Spec, What's your name?? That is pretty wierd that we go to the same school being that people from all over the world use this forum... Ya there are 2 other people besides myself with 87-88 accords at costa...but you can set mine apart rather easily...just listen for my intake/exhaust it's really loud. The only other kid that I could say would have one close to mine is this guy w/ a 90-93 accord white w/ rims. Its rather funny because whenever we see eachother we rev our engines purely to show off and to see who's is louder (I dont even know him). Its all good fun though. ONLY IF I HAD A VIPER!!!!!! lol...one day... When are you getting your integ? drop me an email nathan@ghalili.com... same to you Brad... It would be cool to talk cars w/ someone that actually has one worth talking about..lol..... If not I'll drop you one soon....
PEACE!!! :flash:


My name is Brandon. I know it's kinda weird that we go to the same school. Just today I saw the other person with the white accord and rims outside woodshop during 5th. If I can't find a GSR by this summer, then I will probably get a 94 or 96 4.6 Mustang and supercharge it (they respond VERY well to boost). Maybe I'll see you around.

Ya those mustangs are quick cars but I think you should really try hard to get that GSR.... There are so many things you can do to an Acura that you couldnt do to a Mustang... Sure it goes both ways but it's my opinion that you'll have way more fun working on a GSR then you will with a Mustang.... Hey where do you usually hang out at during break/lunch.. I think I know who you are but Im not sure..... anyways check out autotrader.com and even ebay.. I'm sure you'll find one pretty quick if you keep at it.... How much are you looking to pay for it??

During Snack I usually stay by the soda machines by the gym, but sometimes wander. At lunch, I hang out right by the exit of the cafeteria closest to the teachers eating place. About halfway through, I walk with soke of my friends to the locker hall by the swimming pool.

I am slightly biased towards imports as opposed to muscle, but I think that if I can't find a GSR around $6500 or so, then a Mustang would be a much better choice than an Integra LS. I know I could do the LS-VTEC swap, but it doesnt really seem worth it...

Youre a junor, right? You know a senior named Dereck Paulsen?

Nah.. I'm a senior.. and the name sounds familiar... Im sure that If I saw him I would recognise him.... what kind of car does he drive??? I just searched autotrader.com and I found 16 listings of 95 integs from $4000-$7000 and half of them are under $6500...all of them in the area... You should check it out.... ya if you decide to go 4 imports dont do any engine swaps unless you buy the car for cheap w/ a bad engine.... Well either way they're both good cars... my cousin and 3 of my friends have mustangs and they love them so either way you'll be happy... your a sophamore right...?? do you know my friend Corrine Lee...?? She hangs out by the teachers lounge too...

I have been looking at autotrader.com for a while and can only find Integra LS's. I can find plenty of Mustangs though. I don't think I know your friend, but I have heard her name. Dereck doen't have a car, but will get a Cvic soon. What color is your Accord?

My Accords a dark blue color... Im getting it painted soon (most likely black).. I have a 4th gen. accord spoiler on the way so that should be on in 2-3 weeks.... I'm saving up for tires(205/40-16) and rims (O.Z. superleggera) as well as a full body kit (kaminari)....drop 2.25 inch... along with some other things... Im thinking the entire thing with be done around the end of summer break...

I dont usually make fun of other peoples posts but I couldnt help this time I even signed up just so I could. Someone needs to sit the person down and show him some pictures of Camaros and Vettes. I own a Camaro and my dad owns a Corvette and I can tell you that the new Viper looks nothing like either one.

V
V
\/

"Viper
I think the Viper engineers should get the hell out of the wind tunnell. Its a good think Larry Shinoda passed away so he didnt have to see such an ugly car. -> The 2003 Viper in general looks like a cheap knock off of the Camaro. <-The bubbly front looks like a Dodge Dakota and ->the rear just ends like the new Vette.<- rom the side the car looks like an ironing board and from the top it looks like a tug boat. It has absolutely no nice lines. The Viper was a beutiful car, they really screwed up a good thing. I've seen Miata's that look nicer than the new Viper. We can only pray that Dodge realizes this before 2003.
-Pat"

Viper 10>
There is not a single factory (including Porsche and Ferrari) that can match Chrysler's dominance in racing (ala NASCAR, NHRA and more recently Le Mans and ALMS)
you sound like you know vipers very well, but that statement just doesnt hold, im sorry. Porsche has the most successful racing history of all time, thats a fact. i wouldnt call chrysler a more dominant racing firm than ferrari either....
and for what its worth, the new viper looks ok , but not a patch on the old one... oh ya, and if someone drives a passat or regular car, it doesnt take away their right to call ANY car ugly if they think it is.. like i said, i dont think the new viper is spectacular, and i dont drive a supercar... its just my opinion

cheers,
jay

Originally posted by crayzayjay
Viper 10>

you sound like you know vipers very well, but that statement just doesnt hold, im sorry. Porsche has the most successful racing history of all time, thats a fact. i wouldnt call chrysler a more dominant racing firm than ferrari either....
and for what its worth, the new viper looks ok , but not a patch on the old one... oh ya, and if someone drives a passat or regular car, it doesnt take away their right to call ANY car ugly if they think it is.. like i said, i dont think the new viper is spectacular, and i dont drive a supercar... its just my opinion

cheers,
jay

Jay:

While I consider myself a road racer more than anything else, I have to correct you on your assessment of Porsche or Ferrari's racing dominance. You can trace Porsche's success in spurts during 50's 70's and part of the 80's. Porsche was getting it's butt handed to them through the 90's and to date. They were getting beaten so badly that they rigged their own challenge series and dropped down in classes in Le Mans IMSA and dropped out of Trans Am. The dominance that was being referred to has more to do about being a dominant powerplant as compared to the dominance by a manufacturer, as much as anything else.

Ferrari is race bred engineering. They had huge successes in the 50's and 60's. They were by no means competitive in any other series other than F1. They have only returned to a dominant position in F1 because of Schumacher and the addition of EFI traction control systems (replacing their home grown Italian fuel management/ignition system). They have not dominated the F1 series or any other series like Mopar.

On the other hand, NHRA has been dominated by Mopar since its inception in the 50's. Their Hemi powerplants continue to this day as being the best and most efficient engine in the history of drag racing. Look at every famous driver and you will find a Mopar behind them. Garlits, Prudhome, McEwan, Muldowney, Bernstein, Force...they ALL run Mopar. They may run other manufacturers bodies, but they all run Mopar powerplants.

Their track record in Nascar is almost as dominant. Since the inception of the stock car (which by the way began in the South with moonshine runners) the Dodge has been the dominant powerplant of choice. Ask anyone that follows Nascar history and the will tell you that Mopar has been there and been banned in every generation of the series. Do you realize that Chevy and Ford both have tried (to no avail) to copy the Hemi designs? Ford actually got a Boss 429 to the track and raced before they were banned. No other powerplant can get more power and durability than the Mopars. Mopars had cars that were modified going well over 230 mph in the 60's with the Superbirds on bias ply tires! Only in the last 10 years has Ford and Chevy become competitive in the series (by banning much of the developments of Mopar). Even during the bankruptcy era for Chrysler of the late 80's early 90's, they were still dominating on many race series.

Check this ut Nascar Wars (http://www.allpar.com/racing/nascar-wars.html)

I am by no means a Chrysler bigot, just because I drive a Viper. I will say that I have taken your position in the past and was shot down when someone taught me about Chrysler's racing history.

I hope that this sheds some light on Chrysler's racing history. I'll try to dig up more to add to this good debate.

Brad

Originally posted by crayzayjay
Viper 10>

you sound like you know vipers very well, but that statement just doesnt hold, im sorry. Porsche has the most successful racing history of all time, thats a fact. i wouldnt call chrysler a more dominant racing firm than ferrari either....
and for what its worth, the new viper looks ok , but not a patch on the old one... oh ya, and if someone drives a passat or regular car, it doesnt take away their right to call ANY car ugly if they think it is.. like i said, i dont think the new viper is spectacular, and i dont drive a supercar... its just my opinion

cheers,
jay

Jay:

While I consider myself a road racer more than anything else, I have to correct you on your assessment of Porsche or Ferrari's racing dominance. You can trace Porsche's success in spurts during 50's 70's and part of the 80's. During this time the factory team and the privateers were running the Porsche badge. Porsche was getting it's butt handed to them through the 90's and to date. They were getting beaten so badly that they rigged their own challenge series and dropped down in classes in Le Mans IMSA and dropped out of Trans Am.

Let's note the Chrysler dominance that was being referred to has more to do about being a dominant powerplant as compared to the dominance by a manufacturer, as much as anything else.

Ferrari is race bred engineering. They had huge successes in the 50's and 60's. They were by no means competitive in any other series other than F1. They have only returned to a dominant position in F1 because of Schumacher and the addition of EFI traction control systems (replacing their home grown Italian fuel management/ignition system). They have not dominated the F1 series or any other series like Mopar. After the 60's Ferrari all but disappeared from the road racing circuits.

On the other hand, NHRA has been almost completely dominated by Mopar since its inception in the 50's. Their Hemi powerplants continue to this day as being the best and most efficient engine in the history of drag racing. Look at every famous driver and you will find a Mopar behind them. Garlits, Prudhome, McEwan, Muldowney, Bernstein, Force...they ALL run Mopar. They may run other manufacturers bodies, but they all run Mopar powerplants.

Their track record in Nascar is almost as dominant. Since the inception of the stock car (which by the way began in the South with moonshine runners) the Dodge has been the dominant powerplant of choice. Ask anyone that follows Nascar history and the will tell you that Mopar has been there and been banned in every generation of the series. Do you realize that Chevy and Ford both have tried (to no avail) to copy the Hemi designs? Ford actually got a Boss 429 to the track and raced before they were banned. No other powerplant can get more power and durability than the Mopars. Mopars had cars that were modified going well over 230 mph in the 60's with the Superbirds on bias ply tires! Only in the last 10 years has Ford and Chevy become competitive in the series (by banning much of the developments of Mopar). Even during the bankruptcy era for Chrysler of the late 80's early 90's, they were still dominating on many race series.

Check this ut Nascar Wars (http://www.allpar.com/racing/nascar-wars.html)

I am by no means a Chrysler bigot, just because I drive a Viper. I will say that I have taken your position in the past and was shot down when someone taught me about Chrysler's racing history.

I hope that this sheds some light on Chrysler's racing history. I'll try to dig up more to add to this good debate.

Brad

Brad definitly knows his shit... lol... heys hows the engine work coming??? :alien:

Im not going to pretend to be a racing history dictionary. in fact, i will state now that i know very little about Chrysler

anyway.....
Success for Porsche in part of the 80's?
OK then, lets just take a look at porsche wins at Le Mans:
'70
'71
'76
'77
'79
'81
'82
'83
'84
'85
'86
'87
'94
'96
'97
'98
16 wins... not too bad.. apart from that barren spell in the 80's of course... 7 Le Mans wins in a decade... i mean really... thats just shameful... they could have tried a little harder, no?
10 wins in the gruelling targa florio, 18 at Daytona 24hrs, 17 at Sebring (12hrs), 2 Paris-Dakar Rallye wins, 4 Rallye Monte Carlo wins as well wins at laguna seca, carrera panamericana, European GT championships, Sports Car and Makes world championships, CanAm, IMSA wins.... and oh yeah, throw in 25 wins powering McLaren in F1 and one without.. no you're right.... porsche's racing success came in spurts..

Ferrari have over 100 wins in F1, so what if their recent success can be (in part) attributed to Schumacher? the point is not valid whatsoever. 9 wins at Le Mans, the majority achieved in the 60's? so youre wrong again when you say they werent competitive in anything other than F1.

OK i understand that Chrysler powered many many victories using their HEMI engine. But have they achieved success in such a wide range of racing fields? i dont think so

cheers,
jay

lol... this is getting good... Let me tell you something... I'll take anyone of those races on in my speed machine...LOL... so whats a 300 hp difference anyway....???? Porsche... Ferrari... they dont have anything on my 2.0l SOHC... LOL!!!! OK Im sure Brad is going to reply still but lets just put it like this... Porsche... Ferrari... Viper... all beautiful cars... all different in there own look, style, and so on... Ok so some people dont like the new body style of the 2003 Vipers... thats ok.. some people do like it... whos to say that Dodge wont put out a 2004 or 5 and adopt the older body style... you have to admit that the HP incrase throughout the years has been one to talk over... a 500hp /500lb/f-t roadster that starts in the low 70k's is something special... all I know is that I wouldnt want to see them put out the same thing over and over again like most imports.. you cant just change the look of the cup holders and say its the 2002 verson of the 2001's model.. change isnt always good but you have to learn someway or another...

I'm not fanatical about the body, but...
It would great if they were going to resurrect the Stealth, and put a big motor in it. A twin turbo inline 6 would be perfect. But, alas, that's not happening.

I love the old Viper's aesthetics. I'd take the body and chassis and put my own motor in. But Dodge has to stay on the cutting edge, I guess. If you ask me, almost all 2000+ styling is ugly compared to that of 10 years ago. Of course, I have a lot of unpopular opinions.

Whatever the final output, this is going to be a fast car. I've always thought the Viper would be perfectly accentuated by a 500+ ci Hemi. I guess that's not as exotic as a Lambourghini powerplant.

This viper has lost its Exclusvity! It looks like an extended S2000. The current viper has all the dips and curves which makes it look different than all the rest of the sports cars on the road.:bandit:

i had to register here to say something. What on the lords green earth did they do to this beutiful car!!! it looks like a s2000. it used to be the most beutiful car i have ever layed eyes on. now its like puke. it makes me want to cry.:cry:

Most current styling trends make me ill. Jewel lights on a Dodge Ram? WTF?! And I constantly find myself in the minority when people start talking about how great the new Celicas look. Blah. I am superficial enough about my cars that I may never buy a new car again.

i cant say that there isnt any one on the earth that doesnt like vipers.Vipers are the best cars,they run,look and,everything the best.And if your readin this and you dont like Vipers,read it.:flipa: :flipa:

zup,

yo VIPER 10,thats a tight picture of a viper.My favorite viper is the 19996 viper GTS.:D :badass: blue

YO Concorde OwNz Jo0! How in he hell could you say that.Vipers are the tightest fucking car ever.If ya dont like Vipers,dont come to a section like this,i hope everyone agrees with me about what you said.Vipers r the best.:stormzap:

lets be realistic. the viper isnt the best at everything. ever seen a viper pulling a horse trailer, or offroading? Hell im sure that some stock cars are faster through the 1/4 or the slalom. Whats so great about the viper is that it performs quite well in mostly all road performance conditions

Its a great car, but to say its the best at everything is a ludicrous statement

and to say it looks best is opinion only. I love the styling of the viper, but personally, i think a C5 looks sexier, and both of those get trounced in the looks department by the porsche 911. argue with me, and youre only proving my point. its all opinion

Personally I think they could have done much better with the SRT-10 Viper, but it doesn't look like an S2000. I don't see where you people are getting that. Just because it has a long hood makes it automatically an S2000 rip off? I don't think so. Granted it is not the best looking Viper ever, but it is not that bad looking either. I like the looks of the new roadster. What irritates me is that the coupe is being held off for two years or so.

This question is for Viper 10 since he is the guru in this forum. Is the Viper coupe the GTS-r pictures I have been seeing, you know the concept GTS-R? Because that is one gorgeous car.

http://www.x-r8ted.co.uk/jb/images/P1200252.JPG
http://www.x-r8ted.co.uk/jb/images/P1200251.JPG

You mean this viper polygon?

Btw, these are the pictures I took at the barrett jackson auto show.

Originally posted by Polygon
[B]Personally I think they could have done much better with the SRT-10 Viper, but it doesn't look like an S2000. I don't see where you people are getting that. Just because it has a long hood makes it automatically an S2000 rip off? I don't think so. Granted it is not the best looking Viper ever, but it is not that bad looking either. I like the looks of the new roadster. What irritates me is that the coupe is being held off for two years or so.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/pfa88550f42c56f24c49591e5075b45fa/fdfece98.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/p70186e3436dd88936f1ab163e3fe3427/fdfed0f6.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/pc5baa5320207f63285f164a78ffaae7f/fdfece80.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/pab973f3c28c04dbd3fffdd0fdef4931b/fdfed064.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/p191bb58f1ee393e860c43485c7e22daa/fdfeceda.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/p9f72a06f3b7fdb840313fd3c26943a85/fdfed01a.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/pfe1062100bc50e91da8b1a0184f98300/fdfece51.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/pdc567aea9fd5cd04354b9e41aafef359/fdfed0bd.jpg

This question is for Viper 10 since he is the guru in this forum. Is the Viper coupe the GTS-r pictures I have been seeing, you know the concept GTS-R? Because that is one gorgeous car.

Yes the Viper Coupe/ GTS-R that has been touring the car shows for many years is the SRT-10 Coupe. DC (mistakenly) decided to come out with the Convertible before the Coupe (even though they sell twice as many GTS Coupe, than they do RT/10's). The release date is for the 2005 model year (which means fall of 2004).

Brad

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/p32a72345d70e2e08a14ecb6c55e273d8/fdfece06.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid17/pd87da23b80e11bd75ac7deca99c756a8/fdfed09a.jpg

I was at that car show! :D

Nice parallel comparison pics! :)

yes looks are opinion and it is my opion that the 911 is fugly, it reminds me os a vw beetle

good for you

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/5728_image.jpg
"So much for the “Valley of the Sun” — it’s a freezing cold January morning in the Arizona desert, and it poses the morning’s first big question: should we put the top up? With the original Dodge Viper RT/10, the answer likely would have been a resounding “no.” The roadster’s fold-up “toupette” was as ungainly as the folding lawn chair in a Laurel & Hardy short that would always collapse as someone went to sit down. So, with the Viper, you were more likely than not to brave the elements even in a hardy downpour.

Of course, this is the new Viper and it actually has a top easy enough to operate with one hand. Thanks for small miracles. But there are plenty of other, far bigger changes coming with the upcoming introduction of the first complete remake of the legendary Dodge sports car.

It’s hard to believe, but in model-year 2002 the Viper was the oldest vehicle in the Dodge fleet, and despite a continuous stream of improvements and upgrades, the original model was undeniably showing its age. The 2003 is designed to keep kicking asp with a blend of its traditional brute power and an assortment of new features that might actually be described as, well, “refined,” much to the consternation of Herb Helbig. During development, recalls the Viper team leader, “People kept saying we were civilizing the car. That kept me up with nightmares.”

Less is more

During a visit to Phoenix a few months back, TheCarConnection got an opportunity to take the eagerly-awaited ’03 for a spin around DaimlerChrysler’s Arizona Proving Grounds. The prototype we drove was still undergoing final tuning and tweaking, so there may be some subtle changes before the bodacious two-seater hits showrooms later this year. But the 2003 Dodge Viper remains at heart true to its original mission. It’s aimed, says Helbig, at “the guy who likes to rip large chunks of pavement out as he goes around a corner.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/5729_image.jpg
First some basic specs: the Viper’s wheelbase has been lengthened three inches, most of that behind the driver. That gives a better balance between ride comfort and handling. So does the new frame, which is 35 percent stiffer. Though longer, the ‘03 now weighs in at 3350 pounds, a full 100 pounds less than the last-generation roadster. That translates into an even more audacious power-to-weight ratio.

The heart of the Viper, its big V-10 has grown from 488 cubic inches to 505. (For the metric-minded, that’s a hefty 8.3 liters.) It now puts out 500 horsepower and 500 foot-pounds of torque, power that comes on strong from the moment your foot first makes contact with the accelerator pedal. The engine is mated to a carryover six-speed Tremec manual gearbox.

Some of the refinements of the ’03 will be welcomed by even the most die-hard snake fans, like the repositioned pedals that make it easier to do heel-and-toe shifts. There’s even a dead pedal for that wandering left foot. As noted, there’s a real ragtop now, and a far more sophisticated interior, but here the emphasis is on performance. The tachometer is the dominant instrument in the cluster. Secondary gauges have been arranged in a column along the center stack angled in cockpit fashion to make them quick and easy to read. A new radio with a six-CD in-dash changer adds another “500” to the Viper’s statistics—500 watts of sound.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/5730_image.jpg
Mounted just below the audio faceplate, there’s an all-new climate control system providing far more control over heating and air conditioning. You can aim them at will, allowing you to extend your driving season—at least until the snow gets too deep for the Viper’s massive tires. We’re talking 18-inch, low-profile Michelin Run-Flats up front and 19-inchers in the rear. (Those 345-30ZR19s measure a full 13.5 inches across, making them the biggest tires on any North American production vehicle.)

Pushbutton fads

Clambering into a Viper has never been a job for the arthritic. You have to slide your way across the big sills that conceal the side pipes. That’s right: the 2003 revives the side-mounted exhaust pipes found on early versions of the roadster. They’re a bit better insulated now and less likely to scald someone wearing shorts or a skirt. Or worse, a short skirt.

The ‘03’s new seats fit like cocoons. They’re much more comfortable and supportive than those in the old car. They have real attitude. And they’re ready to accept six-point seatbelts which, at the time of our test, Dodge was likely to offer as an option.

To fire up the V-10, press the “Start” button mounted just in front of the gear shifter. Apparently, even Team Viper couldn’t ignore a good fad. Like a snake coiled and ready to strike, the roadster roars to life, seeming anxious to get into gear. And it doesn’t take much more than a touch of your right foot to realize that this is still a true Viper. The sheer power is eye-bulging. Combined with the grip of those big tires, the sensation is a blend of confidence and exhilaration. Each lap around the Proving Grounds’ short oval goes by a bit faster than before, the roadster firmly planted near the crest of the steeply banked loop. But the course is a little too short and tight to test the 190-mph top speed claimed for the ’03.

As we settle into the run, other details start to stand out, like the engine’s distinctive new exhaust note. A V-10 may produce plenty of power, but unlike a V-8 or V-12, it’s not the type of engine layout that naturally produces a pleasing sound. The old car could sound, at times, more like a UPS truck than a sports car. So Team Viper put in countless hours in the acoustic labs, an effort that paid off with a much more pleasant sound that underscores, rather than belies the car’s raw torque.

One thing missing, by the way, is the unpleasant sensation of wind buffeting that could be overwhelmingly cruel to anyone taking a high-speed run in the old RT/10 roadster. The focus on aerodynamics, which yields significantly greater downforce for the new car, also helps minimize air turbulence in the passenger compartment.

Handling the snake

Where the new Viper’s torque truly became apparent was on the handling track, a tight, weaving course of red cones laid out on a sea of smooth asphalt. A course like this offers a good opportunity to see if all the pieces come together because you’re using the accelerator, brakes, steering wheel and chassis dynamics to make it through as fast as possible.

One of the first things we discovered about the new 2003 Viper is how much more predictable it is than the car it replaces. Steering is precise and once you get the basic feel of the car, you can easily use the throttle and brakes to point your way through a hard corner.

That’s not to say it’s an easy car to drive, at least not when you’re pushing the limits. Some of the newest sports cars have gotten so refined you feel like you could run a race with one arm fiddling with the radio. “You’re not going to have one arm wrapped around your girlfriend,” laughed Helbig, demonstrating his own technique on the handling course. It takes concentration to practice to push this car to the limits. It may be more manageable, but the Viper hasn’t been tamed.

Just how fast off the line is the new car? They’re still finalizing those specs, but 0-60 times well under four seconds are a certainty. After all, the new car has to at least maintain, if not widen, its lead over the Corvette Z06, which posts a time of 3.9-seconds.

Straight-line acceleration is only part of the new Viper equation. The roadster’s big Brembo brakes scrub off speed in a heartbeat, and the ABS system ensures you stop in a straight line. Helbig confidently expects to beat the USAC record of 0-100 and back to zero, currently standing at 14.7 seconds. The goal is 14.2 seconds.

Performance may be the soul of this snake charmer, but style was a big part of the original Viper appeal. Few cars could match its macho excess. Here’s where the new Viper has come in for its sharpest tongue-lashing since the covers were first lifted at the Detroit auto show. There’s no question the new car is a striking exercise in design, but it simply doesn’t have the same curvaceous, over-the-top panache. While those at the Chrysler design studios in Auburn Hills, Mich., insist they had complete control of the project, the 2003 Viper nonetheless has a more European flair to it; it is less of the extreme American machine of the original.

To some, that might actually be a welcome change. Attractive? Absolutely. And the design is far more functional. The horse collar grille is a third larger than before to improve engine breathing. The higher deck lid delivers significantly more downforce, especially at high speeds. And it conceals a trunk that’s actually able to store some luggage. But the second-generation roadster isn’t quite as likely to catch the eye and imagination of road warrior wannabes. If Helbig has any reason to worry, it’s that the new car almost looks too refined.

The styling debate is likely to continue long after the new car hits showrooms in October. But once a few of the 2003 Vipers get on the street, there’ll be little debate over its performance. The new car may wear a more refined look, but under the skin, it’s still got that brute force that made the Viper a legend in its own time."
_________________________________________

2003 Dodge Viper
Base price: $75,000 (est.)
Engine: 8.3-liter V-10, 500 hp
Transmission: six speed manual, rear-wheel drive
Length x width x height: 175.5 X 84.8 x 47.6 in
Wheelbase: 98.8 in
Curb weight : 3357 lb
EPA City/Hwy: N/A
Safety equipment: dual front airbags, security alarm, pretensioning seatbelts
Major standard equipment: keyless entry, tilt steering wheel, six-disc in-dash CD changer
Warranty: N/A

yes looks are opinion and it is my opion that the 911 is fugly, it reminds me os a vw beetle
people still say this kind of thing? jeez.... if thats not blind prejudice i dont know what is

zup all,
where r are you all,there hasnt been very many new posts up:(

what do you mean prejodus? its opinon, my opinion that it liiks like a beetle.

As far as looks go, personally, I like the new design of the Viper. I like how they made it more 'futuristic' than before. I am totally digging those headlights, and most everything about it.
I do though think they went a bit too extreme on the overall body of the car. They took away her georgeous curves, which is the change I dislike the most. I think most of the angles of the car look overall more aggressive (especially the front shot, like the silver one a few posts above), but I just don't like the profile look of the car. I think it is too boxy and 'flat' I guess. They should have kept the curves, and added the new goodies onto that.
I like the change, but I think it was a tad extreme.
As for the power........ :D

Just my 2cents.

How can you not compare it to an S2000 it looks so much like it besides a few curves here and there.

I gotta say for a 70,000 car they should give it a little better interior. The old ones and the new ones look so plain inside. I'd sure like to own one though regardless.

Ok, I know people are gonna hate me for this one, but i gotta say it :) Personally i think the 2003 looks more like the new style hyundai tiburons then a S2000. *ducks flying bricks* I'm not quite sure why, but theres domething about the lights and the front end that jsut remind me of it. *ducks more bricks*

guess what....


I M ON THE WAITING LIST FOR A RED 2003 VIPER...





















i wish...

:D

its a hot lookin car lemme tell you that... and quick too

viper 10

e-mail me some pics of your car pllllllllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeassssssssssss sseeeeeeeeeeee

hilfiger10025@hotmail.com

I gotta say the GTS R version of the 2003 Viper looks 10x better then its Convertible counterpart. In my eyes the stripes, spoiler, hood, makes it almost like a totally different looking car. If they made the new Viper look like that GTS R, you wouldn't hear any complaints from me. :devil:

Vipers are a great car

Vipers are a great car

Thank you for that....insightful reply. You're right though, I hope someday I get to try one of those snakes out.

The viper is a great car, but It's beter in yellow !!! :D
__________________________________________________

http://membres.lycos.fr/tuningaudio/Mycar.jpg
The PT Cruiser... :bandit:

want to know what one of the uglyest cars is?








































pt cruser

its kinda funny...

that pic in that sig. that guy/girl must have paid a pretty penny to have that kit custom painted, and at the bottom of it it is all scraped up..

sucks to be him

:confused: Alright,, How the hell did you guyz get pictures of my new Viper ?! :mad:

a really great car, although i prefer the coupe 2003 version, i love the huge tale.......

(second post!)

As great as the old Viper was, I like this one just as much. I have always thought Dodge had the best styling of any of the auto makers, and when they do something, they do it right. (new car designs, Ram SRT-10) Anyways, one day, I will own this along with my Ram SRT-10. hehe :D

Actually dude, I believe it tops the 0-60 well over the vette.

I would just like to say for everyone to know, that I (me, Cassady Nall) have ridden in the 2003 Dodge Viper, and I approve of it with every cell in my body. I may be 16 years old (and also not allowed to drive the car because I might "do something stupid") and not know too much about cars, but god, this car has BALLS! I didn't get the whole show, because the car has 2 seats and my cousin who was driving it had a friend. But he took me a good mile down the road I live on and we must have gone 100 miles in a very small stretch of road. My god it was probably one of the most amazing days of my life. I must approve of the viper with every inch of car manliness I have. Good work Detroit, keep it up!!!!!
-Cass:silly2:

I totally love the new Viper!!! The Viper is probably one of the HOTTEST cars out on the road, but I must say nothing beats the earlier body styles all those curves, it's like a well curved women :smoka: , I would like to see more curves in the new version but it's still HOT!!! ----- of course it beats out a Corvette first of all it comes with abour or around 500 HP STANDARD and it's a V-10 whereas the Vette is a V-8.

FERRARI F50 TIRES ARE $1000:eek:

here r some pics, i got these from the vca forum. They look better than the ones in MT, IMO

more

it only let me do 1 @ a time

I found them!! they are out finally!

Price: $79,995
Miles Per Gallon: 10/20 mpg
Curb Weight: 3380 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual Engine
Type: V10
Displacement: 8277 cc
Horsepower: 500 bhp @ 5600 rpm
Torque: 525 lb-ft @ 4600 rpm
Redline: 6000 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 3.8 sec
0-100 mph: 8.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 11.9 sec @ 121 mph
Skidpad: 1.15g
Top Speed: 190+ mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: under 100 ft
Slalom Speed: 70.0 mph


Auburn Hills, Mich., Jan 18, 2002 -

The Dodge Viper has always been more than just a car. To enthusiasts, it represents the purest expression of free-spirited driving. For a re-emerging Chrysler Corporation, it heralded a new way of doing business, taking chances and stepping over the edge. To the industry, it served as a wake-up call that the Dodge brand would be the catalyst for change in automotive design throughout the 1990s.

Beneath its iconic imagery, the Dodge Viper has backed up its reputation with cold, hard numbers ? horsepower, torque, 0-60 mph, 1/4-mile, slalom, skid pad and top speed. Unlike the pseudo-sports cars, at Dodge, slick copy has never been a replacement for raw performance.

So when it came to writing the third chapter in the remarkable story of America's ultimate sports car, Dodge once again defied convention and built the all-new 2003 Viper lighter, faster and more powerful than ever.

This chapter's subhead echoes the enthusiast mantra:

There's No Replacement for Cubic Displacement

"When we introduced the first Viper, we set the principles that would forever define the car -- obscene performance, outrageous design and ultimate driver enjoyment," said Jim Julow, Vice President, Dodge Global Brand Center. "With this next chapter, we've stayed true to those principles in creating the next version of the ultimate American sports car."

The next chapter of Viper takes extreme performance further than Dodge has ever taken it before, reaching a Holy Grail of sorts for those worshiping the religion of extreme automotive performance. The Dodge Viper will become the only production car in the world to develop at least 500 horsepower, 500 lb.-ft of torque and feature an engine with more than 500 cubic-inches of displacement.

"When you want to increase the capability of a high-performance car, there are three basic areas you can change: increase the power, reduce the weight or improve the handling," said Larry Lyons, Vice President, Small Car Platform Engineering for DaimlerChrysler. "For the new Viper, we did all three."

The Viper once again underscores the core philosophies of the Dodge brand by being the ultimate automotive icon for extreme performance and extreme attitude.

500/500/500 Performance

Bring back the big blocks!

With performance upgrades that will increase its displacement from 488 to 505 cu. in. and push its V-10 power output to a whopping 500 horsepower and 500 lb.-ft. of torque, Viper has no equal on the road.

The 8.3-liter all-aluminum big-block engine drives wide 19-inch rear wheels and anchors a performance package that eschews technical gimmickry in favor of traditional engineering virtues. The spirit of America's muscle cars lives within the Dodge Viper.

Race-bred Chassis

In creating the next chapter of Dodge Viper, the mission was to enhance its unfiltered blend of performance.

Viper retains a traditional front-engine, rear-wheel drive layout with six-speed manual transmission. The commitment was made early on to use a racing-style chassis including fully independent four-wheel suspension, wide tires and wheels for maximum grip and massive brakes for stopping power.

A new version of the Viper's four-wheel anti-lock disc brake system, originally introduced for the 2001 model year, will be enhanced on this next-generation car.

Body by Dodge

With styling cues derived from the Dodge Viper GTS/R concept car first shown at the 2000 North American International Auto Show, the all-new 2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 convertible packs an outrageous new design into a low-slung roadster shell.

Lowered hood lines, swept-back fenders and deep-cut side scallops take their cues from the classic original, yet bring the Viper into the 21st century. Improved aerodynamics and a partial undertray add functional performance enhancements.

Viper's visceral lines speak volumes of the passion that Dodge designers bring to their craft. The new Viper gives enthusiasts an American sports car that remains true to the credo of pure performance.

Interior Fits Drivers Like a Glove

The next chapter of Dodge Viper continues to set the definition of extreme, yet features greater levels of refinement and finish.

Viper retains its essence -- its Viperness --while taking natural steps forward. A race-derived two-seat cockpit looks over a highly functional instrument panel with center-mounted tachometer and a 220 mile-per-hour speedometer, giving a clue as to the production car's top-speed potential. A traditional push-button starter refires old-time sports car memories.

There's no mistaking that the driver is in command at Viper's helm. Viper is the automotive equivalent of a jet fighter, and at the pilot's control, launches off the line like a Hornet off a carrier catapult.

Viper Redefines the Convertible

The new Viper has a new roofline profile with an easy-to-operate drop top. The Dodge Viper was initially introduced with a full-width sport bar that brought open-air motoring to the Dodge lineup. The second chapter of Viper history was written when an all-new GTS Coupe was added in 1996, and added classic gran tourismo styling to match the car's prodigious performance capabilities.

The new Viper's bi-fold clamshell top with single center latch now makes it a true convertible, and harks back to a time when sports cars delivered serious performance capabilities and stood for untamed freedom.

True to the Mission

Team Viper set out five goals in creating the next generation car:

* Preserve Viper's standing as the ultimate American sports car
* Build a true convertible version that provides better convenience yet retains the original roadster feel
* Refine the original shape without losing it's "outrageous design"
* Raise the benchmark for "unmatched performance"
* Maintain the back-to-basics approach from the original Viper

"With its dramatic styling, 500/500/500 performance and modern racing legacy, the Dodge Viper is unlike any other car on the road and expresses a style and attitude only Dodge could deliver," Julow said. "Viper has earned the title of Ultimate American Sports Car."

The Dodge Viper will go on sale in September 2002 as a 2003 model. It will be built at DaimlerChrysler's Conner Avenue Assembly Plant in Detroit, Michigan.



Auburn Hills, Jul 17, 2002 -

Chrysler Group today announced pricing for the all-new 2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 convertible. The 500 horsepower, 525 lb.-ft of torque, 505 cu. in. V-10 super car will carry a Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of $79,995 (plus $800 destination) when it begins arriving in dealerships around the first of October, 2002.

Featuring more than 100 updates and improvements versus its predecessor, the 2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 has been sold out since January, months before the first cars begin arriving in dealerships. A choice of colors -- Viper red, silver or black -- is the only decision owners will need to make; there is no optional equipment on the car. Prices for 2002 models ranged from $71,725 for the RT-10 Roadster to $82,225 for the GTS ACR Coupe (not including $775 destination).

The 2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 represents the third chapter in the vaunted history of the icon, following the original 1992 Viper RT/10 roadster and the 1996 Viper GTS coupe.

"With the 2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10, we've remained true to the original Viper mission," said Darryl Jackson, Vice President, Dodge Marketing. "We've created -- elevated, actually -- the ultimate American sports car. Dodge engineers have clearly improved and refined the Viper, all the while keeping its outrageous design and road presence -- its 'Viperness.'"

In developing the new Viper, Dodge engineers sought feedback from key constituencies -- particularly owners -- on what the 2003 version should be. The replies included more horsepower, bigger brakes, lighter weight, true convertible top operation, a dead pedal and greater interior comfort. The new Viper SRT-10 delivers all, and a lot more, preserving its true American sports car heritage along the way.

2003 DODGE VIPER SRT-10 TECHNICAL DETAILS

The 2003 SRT-10 retains Viper's front-engine, rear-wheel drive, two-seat layout. A true convertible model replaces roadster and coupe offerings. Its wheelbase has been lengthened 2.6 inches to accommodate convertible top stowage.

Dramatic styling cues include lowered hood lines, swept-back fenders and deep-cut side scallops, reminiscent of the original, yet giving the Viper a fresh look. Inside, from a race-derived, two-seat cockpit, the driver looks over a highly functional instrument panel with a center-mounted tachometer and a 220-mph speedometer. A traditional pushbutton starter refires old-time sports car memories.

The Viper V-10 engine retains the basic architecture of its predecessor, but otherwise it is virtually all new -- and more powerful than ever. A new bored and stroked engine block increases the Viper's displacement from 488 to 505 cu. in. and sends its power output to 500, with 525 lb.-ft. of torque -- 90 percent of which is delivered between 1500 and 5600 rpm.

Viper's four-wheel independent aluminum suspension has been revised to handling characteristics, and a new version of Viper's four-wheel anti-lock disc brake system is enhanced for world-class stopping performance. The new Viper rides on P275/35ZR18 front and P345/30ZR19 rear black sidewall Michelin zero pressure (ZP) tires, with low-pressure sensors in the valve stems.

Reduced weight -- along with increased power -- is one of the two most effective means by which a car's performance can be enhanced. Overall, the SRT-10 weighs approximately 100 pounds less than previous models. Numerous weight-saving measures were taken, including use of a one-piece magnesium front of dash, a cast magnesium instrument panel substructure, and aluminum bodied shock absorbers.

Performance targets for the 2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 include a 0-60 mph time of less than four seconds, an estimated top speed of 190 mph, 60-0 mph braking in less than 100 feet, 0-100-0 mph in about 13 seconds, and 1.15g lateral acceleration.

Engineered by Chrysler Group's Performance Vehicle Operations (PVO), the 2003 Viper is the first Dodge to carry the SRT (for Street and Racing Technology) badge. The Dodge SRT lineup will represent some of the most outrageous products ever developed by DaimlerChrysler, and SRT-branded vehicles will be the fastest cars in their segment. Additional SRT vehicles destined for production within the next calendar year include Dodge SRT-4 and the Dodge Ram SRT-10.

After reading those spec's I remember why the Dodge Viper is one of the ultimate sports car ever created!! I can't wait to own one!!! ;)

And some people still thinking the mustangs and corvettes are better than a pure race car like Viper...

V8 5.0L or 5.7L vs v10 8L...

stock barbie chasis vs race proven space frame???


What a fool :flipa: :flipa:


Please don't compare, this is the American Sports Car, and is the ONLY ONE who can eat ferraris and porsches for breakfast!

Please don't compare, this is the American Sports Car, and is the ONLY ONE who can eat ferraris and porsches for breakfast!
Dont make me laugh... The Viper is too cumbersome and its handling and poise comes nowhere near that of any Ferrari or Porsche built in the last 10 years. In a straight line it will leave most cars behind but if thats what matters to its owner, then he's truly a 1-dimensional fool.
Whats an 8l engine, for christ's sake?!?!?! Talk about overdoing it

Say what you want about the first Viper, but you can't really be making assumptions about this new one right now. It hasn't had much if any, chances to compete against other brands of cars.

I was referring mainly to the old Viper, though you make a fair point, i'll give the new one time and opportunities to prove itself.
The capacity excess comment still stands though. If they insist on making it 8l+, i want 600bhp at the very very least...

just my penny's worth

I imagine some day you might see a Viper come stock with 600 hp. 500 horsepower is a lot from the factory. Hehe companies just keep going up and up in power its great. They don't even care about getting carried away. It makes me feel like something is going to happen one day, and we're going to end up with 120 hp V8's and shit like you saw in the 70's and early 80's.

500 bhp is a lot, but 8l is major excess... that was my point....

leaving all that behind, i sure as hell hope i will never see a company offer a 120bhp V8! That's atrocious! Even for a V6 120bhp is nothing... Im curious, what cars had such underpowered large engines?

Leaving all of what behind? Look technology changed quite a bit because of government regulations. The engines were forced to run on low octane gas instead of 100+ octane the old carb. cars used to be able to run on. Cars were equiped with catalytic converters to prevent less smog and protect the environment. Those converters make you lose power quite a bit. Lots has changed, and to get 500 horsepower and still be able to run on 96 octane, thats amazing.

Take a look at this. It's not 120 hp but its bad enough for a 350 Cubic Inch V8.

Displacement- 350 cubic inch V-8
Compression Ratio- 8.2 to 1
Horsepower- 190
Torque lbs-ft- 280
Carburetor- 4 barrel

Guess what car this was? A 1981 Corvette. A Corvette with 190 horsepower, now how pathetic is that? And it's a V8. My truck has close to the amount of power this Corvette is pushing.

I agree the new viper doesn't look bad at all but i will choose the old one if i have enough money to get one. for me i think the old one is better, much better

I definately have to agree with chopstick on that although i do think that the 2001-2002 viper look beautiful:D

Ditto chopstick

Originally posted by Viper 10


Klueless:

The Germans do EVERYTHING better, right? Yeah right, the Germans completely F_cked up




that i didn´t hear :mad:

sorry i was so angry that i forgot to say...
the viper is a absolute great supercar
i love it! for me it´s the best american supercar!

True. It doesnt have much competition though

i like the 2003 viper.;)

the viper Srt-10 does a 1/4mi in about 11.9 and the new cobra at 15psi at a recent mustang shootout has been run by PaulSvinicki and has clipped off an 11.6 in the 1/4 mile and we aren't talkin about using slicks either. $79K--SRT 10 vs. $35K coupe = wow. Sounds like someone is getting ripped :p

it probably does faster then that. If the 450 hp Viper could do 11.9, this thing probably does 11.7 or .8. Maybe even better who knows, we'll just have to see someone do it first.

new cobra at 15psi at a recent mustang shootout has been run by PaulSvinicki and has clipped off an 11.6
It's forced air induction on a V8, of course its fast as hell. 15 psi is a lot of boost power. Viper is doing close to those times without a supercharger so big deal. Don't bring up the cost bullshit again. If I had a lot of money and was able to afford a Viper I wouldn't give a damn what Ford has to offer with their supercharged vehicles. Mustangs are everywhere, Vipers aren't. The car is fast as hell, looks great, handles good, and it's something not seen everyday, I would buy it.

If I was dead serious about drag racing the car, I obviously have enough money to afford parts for it since I'm able to afford the Viper in the first place. I would buy low compression pistons, camshafts, all that good stuff to make it fully blown like a Cobra. So then after spending about 6-8 grand extra on a supercharger and intercooler, I got a car that is in the 10's on around 9 psi. Crank it up even more to like 15 or 20, I got a car doing 9's most likely. Not only that I'm going to need slicks. Which means I gotta rip out the independent suspension in the rear, and put some old stiff Chrysler rear end in it, not only have I just burnt a big hole in my pocket but I just killed the Viper's handling quite a bit. Expensive? Yeah, but since when is drag racing cheap? Why would I do that though, drag race a $80,000 car? Just spent all that money on a car, it's pushing like 900hp and now its barely streetable and I don't get to have fun with it because if just tap the gas I'm 50 miles down the road. It's cool to have a car that fast but its a waste if you don't get to enjoy that power on the road.

Whats your point? That the Cobra is more worth the money and the Viper isn't? The Cobra is worth every bit of the money. Anytime you can get a car with a supercharger, forged internal parts so you can crank it up to more boost then what the factory gives it, thats awesome. Thats one hell of a deal. The Supra is another car in that category. But look at what the Viper is compared to. It's a rich man's car so they compare this car to Corvettes and high dollar cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini. One of those 360 Modena cars with the V8 produce like 390 hp and it costs you like $200k. Now you got the Viper with a V10 that produces 500 horsepower for only $80k. Which is the better buy? Both are hand built so you can't say its the quality of the car. Naturally the Viper is. The Cobra and Viper are in a different category, so stop comparing them.

the Viper is overpriced. Its not an exotic-----beauty is in the eye of the beholder------and the new vipers-----aren't breathtaking like the 94-95s. Mustangs are everywhere-------but u don't see Cobras as often as you'd like to imply. The viper has a big block V-10 - and with the small block V-8 plus blower--------well---I say its definetely fare when comparing engines. Let's see Dodge send out a blown or turboed Viper out for mass production in the 1000s----don't think we'll see one. I really question your knowledge on other cars. I say that because it is very easy to take the current 03 cobra-----swap some suspension parts-----and easily come in way below the $80 Viper sticker---and exceed the 03s performance. If you think thats bullshit-----then you don't know about the aftermarket technology out there for stangs. The 03 is every bit as fast as the current Viper-----and its engine has the forged internals to handle up to 20 lbs boost. So I really don't think the Viper is in such a league of its own. The 03 Cobras are just as beautiful as the Vipers---if not more. Its all good though, because Cobra owners who actually have mods beyond an air filter and catback---no exactly what we have in our aftermarket to give our snakes serious bite. You can have your 900 hp so you can fill your empty pants-----but an 03 can be top dog over a Viper any given day.

The viper has a big block V-10 - and with the small block V-8 plus blower--------well---I say its definetely fare when comparing engines.
Not really, its pretty easy to get power out of forced air induction even with a small engine. Hell I can get this supercharger and intercooler for my S-10 that will put it at 350-360 hp on stock internal parts, 10 psi of boost. I don't even have to change the pistons or anything and I got a truck that has enough power to run with V8 Camaro's. It will also last as well, like the Cobra, the 4.3L V6 is cast-iron. Jumping from around 190-200 to 360 hp, not bad for $4,000. Now if I wanted to buy the internal parts and make it handle 20 psi, I could probably beat a Viper as well.

Let's see Dodge send out a blown or turboed Viper out for mass production in the 1000s
Thats putting out a little too much power for a standard car to buy don't you think? A 1000 hp thats hardly streetable, that wouldn't sell at all so of course they won't do that. A 1000hp car as well, I can imagine the price tag on a car with that much power.
Its not an exotic
What defines exotic? Exotic when it comes to cars, I've always thought it to mean, high powered, high price tag vehicle, very rare to see on the road, and is sold all over the world. Does the Viper not fit that category? As for your comment about the looks, you're saying that as a Ford fan, many people who like imports and domestics from all brands are going to disagree with that.


Besides cranking up the Cobra's psi level, I'd like to also know what else you can do to the vehicle to make it faster when it comes to modifying the engine. You already got some of the best internal parts for a supercharger, so what else is there that you could improve on the engine on the Cobra?

I really question your knowledge on other cars. I say that because it is very easy to take the current 03 cobra-----swap some suspension parts
Really, you're going to insult me because I don't know whats available for a Cobra in the aftermarket? And what do you know about the aftermarket of a Viper? There are also suspension parts that can be changed in the Viper, you ever see that rear end Viper 10 posted on this forum? It might be in this topic. It's not like the Viper doesn't have an aftermarket supply as well you know. You keep trying to compare a stock car vs a modified car, thats not exactly fair.

15 psi to a Viper with 8.5:1 compression heads and such, would make it quite undriveable. Devil has explained a lot, and has done a good job doing so, but you keep fighting, it really shows that your a little jealous ford fan boy. like Devil said, Vipers aren't something you see everyday, up until i went to Vegas i had never seen on in person, hell i see Mustangs everyday, they're not sumthin i look at for more than a flash of a second.

dyno graph of an SRT-10 versus a dyno graph of a SVT Cobra, believe me there are a lot of differences

i have not yet seen a dyno graph of either, but i read that the torque curve of the Viper is flat as the deck of an aircraft carrier. now imagine that 525 lb-ft of torque throughout most of the rpm range, thats impressive, the Mustangs engine is not impressive. 4.6 liter supercharged engine. wow. now, if Dodge/Chrysler made a DOHC Viper engine with the same supercharger and psi of the cobra, can you even imagine the power it would make?? it'd be nothing short of awesome. Wasn't the GTS-R's engine a DOHC v-10, and it made 700 hp and 705 lb-ft of torque, man that thing put shame the to Mclaren F1 for 20% of the price

also take a look at the Viper's gear ratios, tranny/rear diff. It's also got better brakes, and quite a bit lighter, like 500 lbs.

u sound like a guy who creams his drawers to Viper posters at night---trying to go tit for tat. Its still a 10 cylinder big block vs. a small block 8 cylinder with forced induction. Dodge chooses to go N/A---ford goes blower----its still horsepower----there are so many 'slow' people like you on this board----that think because an engine is blown----its unfair, or whatever. The problem is Dodge fans don't want to hear of anything when cars catch up. I could care less whether you agree-----The current cobra can make more power for about $46K less------and is as mean a machine as the Viper. But you viper guys will just keep flapping your mouth--because you finally feel proud that you can say Dodge with your head held up high. Just to reiterate--I never put the Viper down, just simply explained how the CURRENT cobra can make more power with its CURRENT drivetrain. But i'm sure know is where you'll start serenating the board with your girly The viper this, the Viper that . . . blah blah blah :silly2:

Vortec if you want to flame other cars go in the ford forum. What are you trying to prove that the new corbra is the best car in the world? Man get a life and wake up there are other cars out there much better that the cobra and the viper is one of them. If you want to make a price ratio comparison that is a different story. But stap flaming for cring out loud. Look even Devil suports the viper and obviously he's a Chevy guy. How come he can see the advantages of other cars and you cannot?

you don't read posts---------and you need to get a life because you follow me around the threads----like some love sick doofus. None of my posts ever bad mouthed the Viper's performance. Simply pointed out that it has been caught up too. Listen, I'll blow you a kiss---not please stop following me around the threads----I have agirl---and you're not gettin my number.

Stay away from me you nasty bastard. Now I'm flaming you---cause your pestering me like some blood hungry mosquito.

'Cause devil this, Devil that,-----stop kissing ass---be your own man.
:monkeypis Piss face.

Could it be that maybe I like to hang around the viper thread too?instead of stalking you. I just want to find some tread about some cars that you are not flaming and saying how much greater you car is cuz that all your posts are.

put up a direct quote where I say: that my car is better. Let's see it. Go dig----and please post. I know you won't post it-----because it doesn't exist. I bet your next reply will be----"I got better things to do than look through your psots for that quote"

And thats because you are fabricator (in your terms--a liar). You want to make all kinds of accusations------but they are based on total BS. I've read your posts--------on a lot of threads------and you contribute more junk---and just such generalizations about things that aren't true----that they should open up a new thread just for you titled: "Come in here if you want to hear tech talk that I get in direct transmission from the probe in my asshole"

:bandit:

Ok lets see: you own a cobra and you say that cobras are the best cars compared even with a viper aparently.I say that qualifies as saying that your car is better.

Should i sumarise your posts too: Ok lets see-- The cobra has a forged enngine that can take very high psi numbers making it very fast. Also you can upgrade the suspension in the cobra to outhandle pretty much everything. Have you said anything else in those 100 posts of your NO the same thing over and over with the exception of flaming me and a few other people directly when asked to tone it down. That to me is NOT a forum member that really contributes anything since all your post can be sumarised into one.

Vortech, you prove with every post that you are ignorant and rude. How do you expect anyone to listen to you and give you respect when all you do is flame them for not driving a Mustang, you are a damn fanboy and you are blinded by your closed mindedness. We are not following you around; we frequent all these forums long before you have been coming here.

1. The Viper is an exotic, because like Devil said, it is fast, rare, not mass produced, and might I also mention that they are built by hand, not by a machine. I would say it qualifies as being an exotic.

2. Put a blower on a Viper and what happens to the Mustang? Also, might I add that is easy to get 750HP out of a Viper without using any forced induction, let’s see you do that with a Mustang.

3. The problem with you is not that you are insulting the Viper; it is that you are forcing your Mustang garbage down everyone’s throat. I call it garbage because you have reiterated the same thing over and over and over that it has just become regurgitated and annoying. All you EVER talk about is adding 15PSI and building the rear end. That is all you ever talk about. And when you talk about the Mustang you always take o such a defense that you flame anyone with a contrasting opinion. It doesn't matter what thread it is, it is you talking about how your Mustang can beat everything on the planet. Honestly, it has gotten old. And please, constructive criticism, I can't say that enough; I have only seen a few of your posts that weren't insulting in some way.

I understand that you have a formidable car, but it is not the best, the best for you, but not everyone else. Some people don't like my taste in cars, namely the LeBaron. I understand that and I don't care, but I will defend it against ignorance. I am just asking that you lighten up man.

again, you accuse me of saying things that I never said. Show me in one post---get me a direct quote---where I stated that a mustang cobra was better than a Viper. There isn't one post. All my posts stated was what could be done to a mustang to bring the handling and power up to the Vipers range. Is that stating that a Cobra is better???????????? I don't think it is. And you guys want to imply that and accuse of of your gayish flaming remarks. You guys are drawing conclusions from statements that were all about comparison. But as has been typical in the Viper forum-----other car owners can't point out how their car can be upgraded to match or exceed Viper's performance. You guys are the morons----because I've tested the shit on my car. I'm not talking about hypothetically. Its been done, I know what any Cobra is capable of-----but you Viper lovers----think your fricken car is a rocket ship or something. Thats aright though-----you guys talk about being behind monster power in a car---I actually sit behind it. I know plenty about the mustang and what can be done to it------because I apply the technology. You guys base your argument on on thing only! I'm calling you guys out for the stupidity that you exhibit back and forth---and you can't even defend your statements. YOu guys think that if Ford doesnt roll out a monster Cobra from Ford----that it can't have the handling and power that a Viper does. Dodge sends its Viper out the way it does-----because it has no choice-------no one connects performance and power with Dodge. lol An 03 can easily sit up top with a Viper. You guys sound so fuckin stupid most of time-------and I say this because you think no other manufacturer can build a suspension like one on the Viper LOL YOu guys don't know shit about what Fords aftermarket arms have developed---and thats why you can't fathom a cobra outperforming a Viper-----but we have the technology----and a few of us are willing to spend the extra money to get the extra performance. And lastly, we may have to dip into the aftermarket------but the aftermarket parts + the 03 cobra itself-----will still fall way short of the rediculous price that a Viper carries. The Viper isn't overpriced like a Lambo or Ferrari-------or Ashton Martin-----but it is overpriced. Shoot back with your retarded posts--------but if you looked intot he Ford aftermarket----you'd find that what I was saying is true. It just boils down to you guys not ever wanted to hear that the Viper has been caught up too. You guys sound so gay----because you don't know about the competitors technology. Ford will never put out a Cobra with a Vipers stock performance-------because it doesn't have to scrounge up a few extra dollars by jacking up the price. The mustang client base has been developed. Th evIper is a great car------but like I've said in every post-----the 03 comes with the foundation to meet or exceed Vipers performance ------ but u just have to dip into your pocket. And like I've said---------still falls way short of what u spend on a Viper. You should go out to California sometime------and let me tell you------the 03 Cobras are gawked at as much as the Vipers---------because too many they are better looking than a Viper-------and two others they arent'. I'm done arguing with retards who don't know shit about realife application. Thats the difference between us------I've applied the tech but you just fuckin read about it. WHICH IS A TYPICAL MAGAZINE RACER!!!!!!!!!!! See ya jerkoffs.

:finger:

I'm not flaming------I'm just to shitheads----who are the same as those who beleieved the world was flat---because no one ever ventured to disprove it. Yea---you guys are right-------the Viper technology is light years away from Ford. Ford has been around so much longer than Dodge-----and off course-----they don't have a bright idea or top car engineer at Ford. Oh and I bet SVT bit off the Dodge PSV or whatever the hell it is. Please, the Viper is a great car-------but every competitor outhere can get a hold of one----break it down piece by peiece and figure out its geometry. You dicks make it sound like the Viper is built in some secret cave at the core of the earth. Wake the fuck up snotnoses------what makes you think other companies haven't developed the technology. Typically chumps postin!

sorry but i´m not gonna read there huge text even if i´m a big fan of the viper!

Where the hell is Viper 10 when you need him?

Look man, I never said that you stated that a Cobra was better than a Viper, I would like you to quote me on where I said that. Our problem is that, yes, you are flaming people. Anyone with a contrasting opinion is wrong to you. I don't know a whole lot about Ford, but where did I ever say that they had no technology compared to Dodge, and just because they have been around longer does not automatically make them the better auto manufacture.

My complaint is that you have to put a blower on the Mustang to get any real power out of it. The Viper is naturally aspirated; stock for stock tit for tat the Viper will kill any Mustang. Yes you can easily make a Cobra faster than a Viper, but the Viper engine has so such more potential than the 4.6L. Mod for mod the Viper will still be faster. Yes your modified Mustang is faster than a stock Viper, and yes the Viper is a lot more money, but when you buy a Viper you aren't only paying for straight line performance you are paying for a true Exotic that can handle VERY well in the hands of someone that knows how to use it. It is not some grocery getter, it is true sports car. Might I remind people that the Viper GTS-R dominated LeManns in 1998, and I mean all classes, in fact I watched some GT races the other day and saw Vipers take 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th in the same race.

You get what you pay for, you pay for a Mustang and you get a quick street car, you pay for a Viper and you get an exotic track car.

Thank you so much Poly for pointing that out to him. He has been going on forever about how Mustangs are better than anything. You just said everything I have been trying to say to him: Cobras are not half as good as he thinks they are. Thanks. :D

a lot of nerve man talkin about how I'm flaming here------and especially talkin about where is Devil----he's the one who started ripping on the stuff which I stated----which is all true---I didn't make up anything. So don't play the ole victim bit. These forums are for discussion and some of you guys turned it into warfare---because it bothered the hell out of you that I explained how a Cobra could match its performance. Thats a fact. I never said a stock cobra could compete against the Viper. I'm smart enough to know though---where the faults in engineering are. And I went into detail what needed to be corrected in order for the 2 to match up. But you guys have to tear everything down----and you guys attempt to portray what I say to be as bullshit. You call any top mustang tuner in your area----and you ask them if they can get an 03 Cobra to run wickedness like a Viper. AND they will tell you YES, but you are going to have to be willing to spenbd some money. That has been my point all along, but you guys started the flaming----by stating that what I was talking about ---was total BS! Thats how the flaming started, and like I said you guys don't have the knowledge about what our aftermarket has to offer----to make any claim that its BS. and I say that again------because YOU DON'T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE!!!!!! You guys get so caught up in what rolls off the plant stock. And i never said stock for stock---the 03 could whip ass. I always stated what could happen with aftermarket parts. So don't play dumb, no one can have a simple discussion with you and DEVIL because you guys are quick to tear everything down----and you are trying to discredit things that are 100% TRUE. Like I said before, I think you guys have a problem with anyone saying that the Viper can't be matched in anyway. You guys would probably even go as far as telling a Z06 owner that they could never match or exceed the performance with Chevy aftermarket parts. Thats where you guys are wrong----thats where you guys are unwilling to listen. I don't see the problem here. I know that a Cobra can be upgraded to exceed the performance of a STOCK 03 VIPER-----but I also know if you add some aftermarket parts to that VIPER----it will exceed the performance of an aftermarket 03 Mustang. I'm not disputing that. So why hell can't you guys accept. Then you wonder why I speak like an asshole in this board-----its because you guys are so unrealistic and the minute you here a Cobra can exceed the performance of a Viper-----you just want to start ripping on me. I'm knowledgeable-----but you guys just fall in love with what the magazines say----and I don't even argue those points.

there you go makinga stupid remark------not as good as I think they are------how many cars make 500rwt at 3500rpms. You think that a cobra making that much power down low isn't going to hall ass. You think 3.55 gears aren't going to make that car move-----you think putting in 4:10 gears aren't going to get you beastly numbers at the 1/4 mile----Bro-------you don't know shit------and you repeatedly show that. The Viper redlines at 6000rpm and the Cobra at 6800rpm. The Cobra is making monster torque like the Viper.

The 4.6L can make a great deal of power. The current engine doesn't have an aggressive cam---or ported heads for that matter. You can get aftermarket V-8 modular engines with ported heads and high lift cams------and you will see over 500 hp N/A. You don't believe me----contact DSSracing.com-------they make plenty of these engines that are used by mustang drag racers. Yes they are aftermarket, but they are still 4.6L DOHC. The modular can make over 500hp with the right hardware-----and N/A thats pretty damn impressive for a fuel injected V8. And if you don't think so------then you guys just don't know jack shit.

Originally posted by vortech
I'm not flaming------I'm just to shitheads----who are the same as those who beleieved the world was flat---because no one ever ventured to disprove it. Typically chumps postin!

Ok Columbus thank you for enlightening us. If this forum and this threads are not up to your standards maybe you should go someplace else. The rest of us like these "shithreads" as you put it what can you do I guess we're all chumps.

watchi it vortech, that smart ass cocky boy attitude is gonna git my fist in your face, as well as a lot of other people's fists, you might as well get off AF because no one likes you and you talk shit out of your ass. you come here and criticize the Viper your almost guaranteed to get flamed. you dont listen to Polygon, Devil, Neutrino, or me or anybody else, well if Viper 10 were here you would listen to him becaues not only does he know his shit about the Viper, he knows more about cars and engineering than you do little boy.

real tough guy. I wish I lived close to you pussy----because if you saw me in person-----I'd make you apologize on your knees. I wish I could meet you in person, you're probably some punk ass, dumbass ---- raised by white trash as it typical with guys that sound like you.

Originally posted by vortech
real tough guy. I wish I lived close to you pussy----because if you saw me in person-----I'd make you apologize on your knees. I wish I could meet you in person, you're probably some punk ass, dumbass ---- raised by white trash as it typical with guys that sound like you.


are you crazy?

calm down man!

V10_Viper be careful I've run into this picture of vortec and looks like he means business.:eek:

hey all guys come down and come back to the facts of the viper!
stop argueing!
thanks!

Originally posted by Menu dei Motori
hey all guys come down and come back to the facts of the viper!
stop argueing!
thanks!

Viper what is a viper???:confused:


Just j/k.

Well back on topic I guess. 500/500 Hp/Tq + lighter than the new 350Z with a super stiff frame = a helluva nice car.

I didn't mind getting into the debate with vortech it was getting good. Neither of us were throwing slander at each other. Nothing like a little healthy debate right? I'm not going to reply anymore because you did start to get out of hand, and rude. When it gets to that point there is no reason to continue argueing because it won't go anywhere.

Last thing I'm going to say. You asked where did you say the Cobra is better then the Viper? You're right no where, you didn't directly come out and say that, but that is what you were trying to prove so you said it throughout all of your posts. And by proving that you were argueing that with 15 psi the Cobra was much faster, and with modifications to the suspension, it can outhandle a Viper, and you can do all this for less then the price of a Viper. Those statements right there, are showing that you are saying the Cobra is better. Whether you came out and said it or not is irrevelent.

Originally posted by Neutrino
V10_Viper be careful I've run into this picture of vortec and looks like he means business.:eek:


OH NO!!! he might bite my ear!!

:bandit:

Oh I bet the 03 Viper looks so much better than this right? yea, whatever.

yes, it does indeed look better, although i'll admit, from this angle the Mustang looks very nice, but the Viper is by far better looking:D

thats a picture of 2001 Cobra---wrong car buddy.

:bandit:

:bandit:

:cool:
Thats an awesome rear end. If the devil cruised on this planet------this would be the car of choice!

I like what they did with the very minor little fin on the trunk instead of a spoiler, and I also like how they colored it black where the exhaust pipes are. The new hood, fine, what I don't really like about the new Cobra is the front bumper. Its fatter, makes it sort of look bulky.

I'd have to say my favorite mustang is that new Bullitt.
This one isn't too far behind though..
http://www.fordvehicles.com/images/2003/EN/photo/cars/mst_pgextpop9.jpg

I saw a brand new blue Mach I a couple weeks ago, that was nice. Don't care for the wheels too much but still sweet.

But....I still think the Viper is better looking then the Bullitt and Mach I. Interior wise though I would say the Bullitt might look better.

air dam/spoiler-----is the sweetest part of the beast. I like the Viper hood the most of all on the car. I still think---they never should have tinkered with the old Viper designs. Here is what I feel is the baddest Viper design of all! In fact I'll go a step further, I think this is the most beautiful muscle car ever design-----Yes---you heard me---even better than any Cobra. :apuke:

I will say this too---I don't like the growl the exhaust makes. I think the coolest growl ever on any car that I've heard---are the 90s Twin Turbo Porsches. Just Un&uckin beleievable sound.

I don't know what to tell ya about the exhaust noise. I've never heard a Viper with a louder muffler on it. I've heard them on videos but sound quality on mpegs isn't as good as in reality.

As far as favorite exhaust note. I like the way Lamborghini's sound. There was this video on the internet showing a Diablo racing a Supra, it lost to the Supra but it sure did sound awesome. Sounded like a true race car.

Vortech, you bitch about him comparing the 2003 Viper to a 2001 Cobra, and then you turn around and compare the older Viper to the new Cobra, give me a break. :rolleyes:

There is little difference between the 2001 and 2003 Cobra and there is a huge difference between a 2003 and 2002 Viper. In my opinion the 2003 Viper looks a hell of a lot better than the Mustang. Also, a Geo Metro can do a burnout, big deal.

Also, the new Viper sounds a lot better, I'll admit the older Vipers didn’t have that growl about them; they were more of a hum. The new ones sound a lot better and have the low growl to them.

Also, in my opinion, the only real shaker hood is the one you could get on the old Mopars. Just my opinion though.

Vortech, you bitch about him comparing the 2003 Viper to a 2001 Cobra, and then you turn around and compare the older Viper to the new Cobra, give me a break
Was he being sarcastic? I thought he was being serious that he liked that silver one.

Originally posted by vortech
I will say this too---I don't like the growl the exhaust makes. I think the coolest growl ever on any car that I've heard---are the 90s Twin Turbo Porsches. Just Un&uckin beleievable sound.


That why they completelly changed the sound on the new one. The old one just didn't sound like a 8L engine.

I know in the videos I've seen on the internet, the Viper almost sounds like a 4 cylinder. Whats up with that. What does the new one sound like? Does it have more of a tougher sound like a V8?

Originally posted by DeViL
I know in the videos I've seen on the internet, the Viper almost sounds like a 4 cylinder. Whats up with that. What does the new one sound like? Does it have more of a tougher sound like a V8?

Yes that was one of the things people were complaining about so they changed the sound to a deeper one.

kinda makes you wonder why they didnt just make it like that from the start.

Aston Martin managed that fabulous sound on the Vantage using a trick exhaust & electronics, and god knows what else.... works a treat!

Now I'm really interested in hearing what this new one sounds like. I hope some street or drag racing videos pop up somewhere with new Vipers.

hey shithead---the pic he had up was of a 2001 cobra---and they are different in the fron, rear, side, and hood. Shaddup ya dope-----if you actually owned an 01---you'd know where the differences lie. Lastly, I'm a big fan of the Viper I posted--not the current one. You know what----just shut your fricken mouth----you don't read the posts closely----and I was talkin to Devil on that not you. When I want to hear shit from you---I'll squeeze your head---so don't start flaming---or I'll resort to being impolite agin.

look vortech, i'm sorry i posted pics of that mustang but too me there are that big of differences that someone is gonna notice. dont bitch at polygon either. and your startin to get impolite again, please try to be polite about this.

I would just like to take this time to say anyone who thinks that any Mustang is nicer or better than the new Viper is a complete moron. Viper is so much better in every way, those two cars are uncomparable.

vortech, what are your thoughts on the so called 2004 Mustangs??

If you want to atack someone please do atack their posts and not the person. Also namecalling is not tolerated in this forum except in stress release under cofee brake.

What is different on the side of the 01 and the 03. I know the snake emblem has red eyes in the 03. From those two pictures the only other thing I can make out is the right below the door panels, the 03 looks more smoother. Is that the difference?

Another thing about the 03, the taillights. Did Ford get rid of the yellow part next to the backup lights? I can't tell in that red Cobra and I saw on a video of a blue Cobra racing a Supra, it had the standard all red taillights as well. They didn't get rid of the "Cobra taillights" did they? I always thought those made it a little more neat and unique.

the cobra tail lights are still the same. On the side of the car---the rocker panel molding is different. The 01 had a skirt on the rocker panel---01 eliminated that. I'm not a big fan of the new design. They are going the wrong way with the stang. But I still think they are going to sell a ton of stangs. I just can't picture in my mind a mean looking stang with the new design. Ford sold out with this nostalgia trip. Whats the name of the Dodge truck that is going to be using the Viper engine?

if Ford only produced a Mustang Cobra----and there was no such thing as a mustang GT or V6---and Ford slapped a $70K price tag on it----then I guarantee the Cobra would have the same prestige and 'exotic' tag as the Viper. Thats really the state of affairs with the way the Cobra is looked at. As far as in the mustang community, the current Cobra is hailed like the Viper. Like I said---thats within the MUSTANG community. If there was a Viper V6 and Gt version-----the Viper would have the same recognition problem as the Cobra. If you don't believe this---then you don't understand what perception is all about.

Vortec, you know your shit when it comes to Mustangs, and I agree with 99% of what you said. However, even if the Mustang Cobra was the only model, and the proce rose to $70,000, the Mustang still would not compete with the Viper. Like Car and Driver put it, the high-end Mustangs have "the most go for the dough". If the raised the price on any Mustangs, it wouldn't change the fact that the Dodge Viper is the better vehicle.

Originally posted by vortech
hey shithead---the pic he had up was of a 2001 cobra---and they are different in the fron, rear, side, and hood. Shaddup ya dope-----if you actually owned an 01---you'd know where the differences lie. Lastly, I'm a big fan of the Viper I posted--not the current one. You know what----just shut your fricken mouth----you don't read the posts closely----and I was talkin to Devil on that not you. When I want to hear shit from you---I'll squeeze your head---so don't start flaming---or I'll resort to being impolite agin.

Well it is a little late for that now isn't it?

Anyhow; I understand it was a 2001, I stated that in my post. I guess I missed the point of your post, I'm sorry, it is no need to get your undies in a freaking wad. I don't know what your damn problem with me it, I have never even given you shit, I have been polite up until now, I have put up with you bashing my car, but it seems you aren't capable of self control just because I have a contrasting opinion.

I am sorry if I've pissed you off for some damn stupid reason, but I won't tollerate someone talking to me like that. I am done with this crap thread, because that is all it has become.

uh yeah it would compete with the Viper. It would have to for the money you spend on it. It would be twice the car it is now. Yes you're absolutely correct if the Viper came with a V6 option, a weaker v8, and the big block, it probably wouldn't be looked at as an exotic. And if the Cobra was that expensive it probably would be an exotic.

Thus goes back to my theory. High price, high power, rare, and exported all around the world = exotic.

As for that new concept Mustang, at first I liked it. I like the 60's car designs a lot and I still think the new Thunderbird looks great. But my friend who is an absolute Mustang fanatic argued that he couldn't stand that retro look and that he wanted something new and up to date. The more I thought about it, the more I started to see his way. It is rediculous to design a car to look similar to it's older model, especially if its a high performance car like a Mustang. Why bother? If I want a car that looks like a 60's version, I'll go out and buy a 60's version. I can buy a 65 Mustang for like $20,000 if I wanted to.

And with that said look at what GM does. Has the Firebird ever gone retro? Has the Camaro ever gone retro? Does the GTO look any bit like the old GTO's? Hell the new GTO doesn't even use a 389 or 400 (which would of been nice to have). Corvette gone retro? Not even a new Stingray, instead there is the Z06. No muscle car GM makes has ever went back to an old style instead they have improved year after year. And thats what they should do. The only thing GM has that is retro is that SSR pickup truck.

you've proved your point---the Viper is every bit the Exotic.
:bandit:

thats the problem with Ford going retro---its go backwards in time---to capture what???? Its so fricken uninventive---that it almost makes you wonder if there are any new creative ideas up in Dearborn. Manufacturers should be moving forward--not backwards in time. They should have left it alone---the current 'New Edge' design is the right direction. Is Dodge going to build the Charger??? The concept model----looks awesome. And is the Razor going into production??? Thats a pretty mean looking car itself.

The worst thing about mustangs are all the v6's out there and their drivers that think that they are all that. What they shoud've done IMO is make some radical outside diferences between the cobra and the v6 model.

Originally posted by vortech
thats the problem with Ford going retro---its go backwards in time---to capture what???? Its so fricken uninventive---that it almost makes you wonder if there are any new creative ideas up in Dearborn. Manufacturers should be moving forward--not backwards in time. They should have left it alone---the current 'New Edge' design is the right direction. Is Dodge going to build the Charger??? The concept model----looks awesome. And is the Razor going into production??? Thats a pretty mean looking car itself.

I doo agree with that too. That is why I like my car so much because the design style does not copy any other car except that they should have made it more powerful:( guess its up to me to change that. :D

Unfotunatelly the public does not want originality. What they want is V6 mustangs and civics. I bet if the cobra (wich IMO is the only mustang worth it) has been the only version avaible it wou've went the way of the f-bodies.

mustangs are all the v6's out there and their drivers that think that they are all that
Do they all think they are all that, or is it just teenagers? I usually see lots of teenagers with v6 mustangs pretending that they have something tough, because thats the way they want to feel. Their kids, what else do you expect?

I don't think what happend to the F-bodies could ever happen to the cobras----even it was the only mustang offered. The F-bodies always came with more power in each version offered. Most importantly---every year in the 90s----ford sold between 65K-100K more overall mustang models than F-bodies were sold. That tells you one thing----a mustang is much more appealing to the public than an F-body. The disparity in numbers of units sold---shows just how much more popular the stangs were overall. The f-bodies----died out primarily because the designs went downhill----and their parent company didn't think much of investing in them anymore. The camaro & firebirds will be back----but they just don't have the appeal they did in the earlier decades.

:right: If the newer models were as popular with today's consumer---they would easily be reflected in sales.

the current cobra is radically different---and no one will mistaken it for a V6. Even the previous models----99 & up would not be mistakened for a V6.

The camaro & firebirds will be back----but they just don't have the appeal they did in the earlier decades.
Now in the Camaro I can see that. Though the latest style is a great improvement, Z28's still look very plain. SS make up for a little bit more with the exhaust pipes, nicer spoiler, and that hood scoop, but I never see many of those on the road.

The Firebirds on the other hand, I think the latest Trans Am is one of the most wicked aggressive designs I have ever seen them make. At least where I live apparantly people do like it I see a lot more Trans Ams then Z28s. But one city isn't enough to make up for sales.

I also like the look of the firebirds. They have a mean look and an unusual exhaust note. One thing------i've only seen one once-----once being a FIREHAWK. I don't understand why its a car that never, ever got mentioned each year when it came out. From what I've read about the firehawk---it came with some extra goodies from the SLP wing----but I can't honestly ever remember any article on it in any mag. Is the firehawk---an aftermarket car with little to no afiliation with Pontiac or what? Do you have any idea why its so low key? :confused:

How about posting some pics of these cars for those (such as me) who arent so knowledgeable about american cars? :)

I don't really know why they don't mention it very much. A couple years ago I used to see them all over the road now all of a sudden they are extremely rare to seen. I don't think I have seen one since.

When the Firehawk first came out in I think 91 or 92, that car would rip it up. I could be wrong but I think the first Firehawk was around 360 hp. Not bad for the times when 350 V8's came with 240hp. It has always been one of SLP's little toys that they tinker around with. SLP makes a modified Camaro SS just like the Firehawks but I've never seen one at a dealership. You probably have to order the Camaros.

The new Firehawks are mainly a less exhaust restricted Trans Am. They are 345 hp instead of 325. They also combine the 4 nasal looking passages on the front into two big ram air scoops.

Firebird Trans Am Collector's Edition
http://www.andyklein.com/images/KleinSalesFloorc.jpg

Firehawk
http://www.noels.com/03-18-02_02_RED_FIREHAWK_RFimage.jpg
Note the difference in the ram air scoops. Only the top two scoops on the Trans Am work.
Another Firehawk pic
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/02129181990003LRG.jpg


There is also another version of the Firebird, but most likely you'll never see one because it is so rare. Why are they so rare? Because it is too expensive. The price is around the same as a Corvette, so most people would rather go with a Vette then an expensive Firebird. It's called the Pontiac Blackbird or Blackbird Year One edition. Its 380 hp. You can go here to see more pictures and learn more about it. http://www.geocities.com/ramairta2002/2002blackbird.html
http://www.geocities.com/ramairta2002/35thbb-b.jpg

thanks for the pics... i would have thought that something that looks like this would do well in the States. How come it wasnt a big success?

Vortech I guess the reason the Firehawk isn't mentioned is its a special edition type car. Kind of like the Bullitt Mustang. I'm not surprised the Bullitt isn't advertised but what I don't get is why doesn't Ford ever advertise the brand new Mach I or its new Cobra? I would at least think they would have something for the Cobra since its completely different from the others.

How come it wasnt a big success?
In my area it is a big success. It's about as much success as the V8 Mustangs. I see more Trans Ams then I ever see Z28 Camaros, and a Super Sport Camaro is extremely rare.

The Firebird I would think has a more feminine appeal to it then either a Camaro or Mustang. I could definately see a lot of girls riding in something like that bright red Firehawk with t-tops, but for some reason that isn't the case anymore. It used to be that way when the 3rd gen was around. It's strange to see more Trans Ams though then Camaro SS, Super Sports which are almost as nice looking start at $29,000, where as a Trans Am starts at $31,000. You would think you would see more SS's around but I guess there are that many people out there willing to pay more for the nicer styling of the Firebird.

the more and more I look at pics of that firehawk----the more appealing the car gets. I'm not surprised about ford not advertising the Mach I or cobra. At last check, the Mach I was nearly presold--according to blueovalnews. And the Cobra well---I've always beleievd that current or past mustang owners---make up a good portion of the customers who buy cobras, bullits, etc. Only about 8,000 cobras were made this year---and I think only 6,500 Mach Is are to be made. So looking at it over 50 states---itseasy to get them sold. I beleive theres an SVT dealer in every state in the us.

its kinda like the Viper----I can't remember ever seeing a Viper commercial---I beleive people that have money to spend and follow sports cars being made by manufacturers---make up a huge portion of the Viper. So many have been seen on the rode---that practically everyone knows about it-------and I'm sure that those that have that kind of money to spend----always get an image in there mind of a Viper---when it comes down to buying a car in that price range.

There was probably no viper exclusive comercial but it does apear in a lot of Dodge comercials.

yea, i especially like the one with the Viper doin a flip, but does it also get Dodge's powertrain warranties and such or not? maybe what would be a question for Viper 10

V10_viper, that was the best Dodge commercial and one of the best car commercials I have ever seen. :p

I think they did have a Viper commercial when it first came out. I remember seeing a red RT/10 with the side exhaust pipes just driving around a twisty road.

Maybe its because I'm a Pontiac fan but I really think the Firehawk or the Firebird Trans Am has the look of an exotic. It looks really aggressive and curvy. But thats about as far as it goes, wild looks. Doesn't match up to the other parts of an exotic. aka expensive, huge power, etc.

Just found one of the first Firehawk models made. Used to come with 365 hp 400 lbs torque. Take a look at this thing, roll cage and all came straight from the factory.

The car in my opinion is one of the uglier 3rd gen bodystyles. But I would say the power makes up for it.
http://www.transamgta.com/Webmaster/0903_02.jpg
http://www.transamgta.com/Webmaster/0903_03.jpg
http://www.transamgta.com/Webmaster/0903_05.jpg
http://www.transamgta.com/Webmaster/IM000686.JPG
http://www.transamgta.com/Webmaster/027.jpg
6 speed I believe.
http://www.transamgta.com/Webmaster/IM000711.JPG
http://www.transamgta.com/Webmaster/IM000666.JPG

God---that is way, way ugly. Is the a cable TV box or the upper intake in the engine bay?

LOL. Yes, that is one ugly ugly Pontiac. Haha, I can't look at that engine without laughing. :silly2:

not a very good looking car at all, but to be honest it looks like most american cars of that type to me... what year was this thing made anyway

Haha its a pizza box man. Just an example of how companies were struggling trying to make a good emissions legal engine with fuel injection. It's a car certainly not to fuck with but yeah it is hideous. This thing is very capable of dusting C5's.

I don't know what year they first made the Firehawk but it is the 91-92 style Firebird. Thank god it improved to this.

http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/02129181990003LRG.jpg

hey devil what´s that for a nice car... the upper black one?

to be honest the new and improved one, as you put it, looks just as horrendous to me... its a comic book of a car.. it looks like a fourteen year old designed it, no offence... what with all its bulges and scoops... it looks pretty funny but i wouldnt wanna be seen dead in it

From what you said when I first posted it I thought you liked it. Thats ok though not everyone is going to like the way it looks. To me it looks like a bird, which would fits the name Firebird well.

Menu the black car I just posted is a Pontiac Firehawk. Its an improved version of the Firebird Trans Am that Pontiac makes. 345 hp V8. Go to the page before this to see other pictures of the Firehawk and Firebird.

thanks devil,

i´ll have a look there.