2003 Viper

I'm not flaming------I'm just to shitheads----who are the same as those who beleieved the world was flat---because no one ever ventured to disprove it. Yea---you guys are right-------the Viper technology is light years away from Ford. Ford has been around so much longer than Dodge-----and off course-----they don't have a bright idea or top car engineer at Ford. Oh and I bet SVT bit off the Dodge PSV or whatever the hell it is. Please, the Viper is a great car-------but every competitor outhere can get a hold of one----break it down piece by peiece and figure out its geometry. You dicks make it sound like the Viper is built in some secret cave at the core of the earth. Wake the fuck up snotnoses------what makes you think other companies haven't developed the technology. Typically chumps postin!

sorry but i´m not gonna read there huge text even if i´m a big fan of the viper!

Where the hell is Viper 10 when you need him?

Look man, I never said that you stated that a Cobra was better than a Viper, I would like you to quote me on where I said that. Our problem is that, yes, you are flaming people. Anyone with a contrasting opinion is wrong to you. I don't know a whole lot about Ford, but where did I ever say that they had no technology compared to Dodge, and just because they have been around longer does not automatically make them the better auto manufacture.

My complaint is that you have to put a blower on the Mustang to get any real power out of it. The Viper is naturally aspirated; stock for stock tit for tat the Viper will kill any Mustang. Yes you can easily make a Cobra faster than a Viper, but the Viper engine has so such more potential than the 4.6L. Mod for mod the Viper will still be faster. Yes your modified Mustang is faster than a stock Viper, and yes the Viper is a lot more money, but when you buy a Viper you aren't only paying for straight line performance you are paying for a true Exotic that can handle VERY well in the hands of someone that knows how to use it. It is not some grocery getter, it is true sports car. Might I remind people that the Viper GTS-R dominated LeManns in 1998, and I mean all classes, in fact I watched some GT races the other day and saw Vipers take 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th in the same race.

You get what you pay for, you pay for a Mustang and you get a quick street car, you pay for a Viper and you get an exotic track car.

Thank you so much Poly for pointing that out to him. He has been going on forever about how Mustangs are better than anything. You just said everything I have been trying to say to him: Cobras are not half as good as he thinks they are. Thanks. :D

a lot of nerve man talkin about how I'm flaming here------and especially talkin about where is Devil----he's the one who started ripping on the stuff which I stated----which is all true---I didn't make up anything. So don't play the ole victim bit. These forums are for discussion and some of you guys turned it into warfare---because it bothered the hell out of you that I explained how a Cobra could match its performance. Thats a fact. I never said a stock cobra could compete against the Viper. I'm smart enough to know though---where the faults in engineering are. And I went into detail what needed to be corrected in order for the 2 to match up. But you guys have to tear everything down----and you guys attempt to portray what I say to be as bullshit. You call any top mustang tuner in your area----and you ask them if they can get an 03 Cobra to run wickedness like a Viper. AND they will tell you YES, but you are going to have to be willing to spenbd some money. That has been my point all along, but you guys started the flaming----by stating that what I was talking about ---was total BS! Thats how the flaming started, and like I said you guys don't have the knowledge about what our aftermarket has to offer----to make any claim that its BS. and I say that again------because YOU DON'T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE!!!!!! You guys get so caught up in what rolls off the plant stock. And i never said stock for stock---the 03 could whip ass. I always stated what could happen with aftermarket parts. So don't play dumb, no one can have a simple discussion with you and DEVIL because you guys are quick to tear everything down----and you are trying to discredit things that are 100% TRUE. Like I said before, I think you guys have a problem with anyone saying that the Viper can't be matched in anyway. You guys would probably even go as far as telling a Z06 owner that they could never match or exceed the performance with Chevy aftermarket parts. Thats where you guys are wrong----thats where you guys are unwilling to listen. I don't see the problem here. I know that a Cobra can be upgraded to exceed the performance of a STOCK 03 VIPER-----but I also know if you add some aftermarket parts to that VIPER----it will exceed the performance of an aftermarket 03 Mustang. I'm not disputing that. So why hell can't you guys accept. Then you wonder why I speak like an asshole in this board-----its because you guys are so unrealistic and the minute you here a Cobra can exceed the performance of a Viper-----you just want to start ripping on me. I'm knowledgeable-----but you guys just fall in love with what the magazines say----and I don't even argue those points.

there you go makinga stupid remark------not as good as I think they are------how many cars make 500rwt at 3500rpms. You think that a cobra making that much power down low isn't going to hall ass. You think 3.55 gears aren't going to make that car move-----you think putting in 4:10 gears aren't going to get you beastly numbers at the 1/4 mile----Bro-------you don't know shit------and you repeatedly show that. The Viper redlines at 6000rpm and the Cobra at 6800rpm. The Cobra is making monster torque like the Viper.

The 4.6L can make a great deal of power. The current engine doesn't have an aggressive cam---or ported heads for that matter. You can get aftermarket V-8 modular engines with ported heads and high lift cams------and you will see over 500 hp N/A. You don't believe me----contact DSSracing.com-------they make plenty of these engines that are used by mustang drag racers. Yes they are aftermarket, but they are still 4.6L DOHC. The modular can make over 500hp with the right hardware-----and N/A thats pretty damn impressive for a fuel injected V8. And if you don't think so------then you guys just don't know jack shit.

Originally posted by vortech
I'm not flaming------I'm just to shitheads----who are the same as those who beleieved the world was flat---because no one ever ventured to disprove it. Typically chumps postin!

Ok Columbus thank you for enlightening us. If this forum and this threads are not up to your standards maybe you should go someplace else. The rest of us like these "shithreads" as you put it what can you do I guess we're all chumps.

watchi it vortech, that smart ass cocky boy attitude is gonna git my fist in your face, as well as a lot of other people's fists, you might as well get off AF because no one likes you and you talk shit out of your ass. you come here and criticize the Viper your almost guaranteed to get flamed. you dont listen to Polygon, Devil, Neutrino, or me or anybody else, well if Viper 10 were here you would listen to him becaues not only does he know his shit about the Viper, he knows more about cars and engineering than you do little boy.

real tough guy. I wish I lived close to you pussy----because if you saw me in person-----I'd make you apologize on your knees. I wish I could meet you in person, you're probably some punk ass, dumbass ---- raised by white trash as it typical with guys that sound like you.

Originally posted by vortech
real tough guy. I wish I lived close to you pussy----because if you saw me in person-----I'd make you apologize on your knees. I wish I could meet you in person, you're probably some punk ass, dumbass ---- raised by white trash as it typical with guys that sound like you.


are you crazy?

calm down man!

V10_Viper be careful I've run into this picture of vortec and looks like he means business.:eek:

hey all guys come down and come back to the facts of the viper!
stop argueing!
thanks!

Originally posted by Menu dei Motori
hey all guys come down and come back to the facts of the viper!
stop argueing!
thanks!

Viper what is a viper???:confused:


Just j/k.

Well back on topic I guess. 500/500 Hp/Tq + lighter than the new 350Z with a super stiff frame = a helluva nice car.

I didn't mind getting into the debate with vortech it was getting good. Neither of us were throwing slander at each other. Nothing like a little healthy debate right? I'm not going to reply anymore because you did start to get out of hand, and rude. When it gets to that point there is no reason to continue argueing because it won't go anywhere.

Last thing I'm going to say. You asked where did you say the Cobra is better then the Viper? You're right no where, you didn't directly come out and say that, but that is what you were trying to prove so you said it throughout all of your posts. And by proving that you were argueing that with 15 psi the Cobra was much faster, and with modifications to the suspension, it can outhandle a Viper, and you can do all this for less then the price of a Viper. Those statements right there, are showing that you are saying the Cobra is better. Whether you came out and said it or not is irrevelent.

Originally posted by Neutrino
V10_Viper be careful I've run into this picture of vortec and looks like he means business.:eek:


OH NO!!! he might bite my ear!!

:bandit:

Oh I bet the 03 Viper looks so much better than this right? yea, whatever.

yes, it does indeed look better, although i'll admit, from this angle the Mustang looks very nice, but the Viper is by far better looking:D

thats a picture of 2001 Cobra---wrong car buddy.

:bandit:

:bandit:

:cool:
Thats an awesome rear end. If the devil cruised on this planet------this would be the car of choice!

I like what they did with the very minor little fin on the trunk instead of a spoiler, and I also like how they colored it black where the exhaust pipes are. The new hood, fine, what I don't really like about the new Cobra is the front bumper. Its fatter, makes it sort of look bulky.

I'd have to say my favorite mustang is that new Bullitt.
This one isn't too far behind though..
http://www.fordvehicles.com/images/2003/EN/photo/cars/mst_pgextpop9.jpg

I saw a brand new blue Mach I a couple weeks ago, that was nice. Don't care for the wheels too much but still sweet.

But....I still think the Viper is better looking then the Bullitt and Mach I. Interior wise though I would say the Bullitt might look better.

air dam/spoiler-----is the sweetest part of the beast. I like the Viper hood the most of all on the car. I still think---they never should have tinkered with the old Viper designs. Here is what I feel is the baddest Viper design of all! In fact I'll go a step further, I think this is the most beautiful muscle car ever design-----Yes---you heard me---even better than any Cobra. :apuke:

I will say this too---I don't like the growl the exhaust makes. I think the coolest growl ever on any car that I've heard---are the 90s Twin Turbo Porsches. Just Un&uckin beleievable sound.

I don't know what to tell ya about the exhaust noise. I've never heard a Viper with a louder muffler on it. I've heard them on videos but sound quality on mpegs isn't as good as in reality.

As far as favorite exhaust note. I like the way Lamborghini's sound. There was this video on the internet showing a Diablo racing a Supra, it lost to the Supra but it sure did sound awesome. Sounded like a true race car.

Vortech, you bitch about him comparing the 2003 Viper to a 2001 Cobra, and then you turn around and compare the older Viper to the new Cobra, give me a break. :rolleyes:

There is little difference between the 2001 and 2003 Cobra and there is a huge difference between a 2003 and 2002 Viper. In my opinion the 2003 Viper looks a hell of a lot better than the Mustang. Also, a Geo Metro can do a burnout, big deal.

Also, the new Viper sounds a lot better, I'll admit the older Vipers didn’t have that growl about them; they were more of a hum. The new ones sound a lot better and have the low growl to them.

Also, in my opinion, the only real shaker hood is the one you could get on the old Mopars. Just my opinion though.

Vortech, you bitch about him comparing the 2003 Viper to a 2001 Cobra, and then you turn around and compare the older Viper to the new Cobra, give me a break
Was he being sarcastic? I thought he was being serious that he liked that silver one.

Originally posted by vortech
I will say this too---I don't like the growl the exhaust makes. I think the coolest growl ever on any car that I've heard---are the 90s Twin Turbo Porsches. Just Un&uckin beleievable sound.


That why they completelly changed the sound on the new one. The old one just didn't sound like a 8L engine.

I know in the videos I've seen on the internet, the Viper almost sounds like a 4 cylinder. Whats up with that. What does the new one sound like? Does it have more of a tougher sound like a V8?

Originally posted by DeViL
I know in the videos I've seen on the internet, the Viper almost sounds like a 4 cylinder. Whats up with that. What does the new one sound like? Does it have more of a tougher sound like a V8?

Yes that was one of the things people were complaining about so they changed the sound to a deeper one.

kinda makes you wonder why they didnt just make it like that from the start.

Aston Martin managed that fabulous sound on the Vantage using a trick exhaust & electronics, and god knows what else.... works a treat!

Now I'm really interested in hearing what this new one sounds like. I hope some street or drag racing videos pop up somewhere with new Vipers.

hey shithead---the pic he had up was of a 2001 cobra---and they are different in the fron, rear, side, and hood. Shaddup ya dope-----if you actually owned an 01---you'd know where the differences lie. Lastly, I'm a big fan of the Viper I posted--not the current one. You know what----just shut your fricken mouth----you don't read the posts closely----and I was talkin to Devil on that not you. When I want to hear shit from you---I'll squeeze your head---so don't start flaming---or I'll resort to being impolite agin.

look vortech, i'm sorry i posted pics of that mustang but too me there are that big of differences that someone is gonna notice. dont bitch at polygon either. and your startin to get impolite again, please try to be polite about this.

I would just like to take this time to say anyone who thinks that any Mustang is nicer or better than the new Viper is a complete moron. Viper is so much better in every way, those two cars are uncomparable.

vortech, what are your thoughts on the so called 2004 Mustangs??

If you want to atack someone please do atack their posts and not the person. Also namecalling is not tolerated in this forum except in stress release under cofee brake.

What is different on the side of the 01 and the 03. I know the snake emblem has red eyes in the 03. From those two pictures the only other thing I can make out is the right below the door panels, the 03 looks more smoother. Is that the difference?

Another thing about the 03, the taillights. Did Ford get rid of the yellow part next to the backup lights? I can't tell in that red Cobra and I saw on a video of a blue Cobra racing a Supra, it had the standard all red taillights as well. They didn't get rid of the "Cobra taillights" did they? I always thought those made it a little more neat and unique.

the cobra tail lights are still the same. On the side of the car---the rocker panel molding is different. The 01 had a skirt on the rocker panel---01 eliminated that. I'm not a big fan of the new design. They are going the wrong way with the stang. But I still think they are going to sell a ton of stangs. I just can't picture in my mind a mean looking stang with the new design. Ford sold out with this nostalgia trip. Whats the name of the Dodge truck that is going to be using the Viper engine?

if Ford only produced a Mustang Cobra----and there was no such thing as a mustang GT or V6---and Ford slapped a $70K price tag on it----then I guarantee the Cobra would have the same prestige and 'exotic' tag as the Viper. Thats really the state of affairs with the way the Cobra is looked at. As far as in the mustang community, the current Cobra is hailed like the Viper. Like I said---thats within the MUSTANG community. If there was a Viper V6 and Gt version-----the Viper would have the same recognition problem as the Cobra. If you don't believe this---then you don't understand what perception is all about.

Vortec, you know your shit when it comes to Mustangs, and I agree with 99% of what you said. However, even if the Mustang Cobra was the only model, and the proce rose to $70,000, the Mustang still would not compete with the Viper. Like Car and Driver put it, the high-end Mustangs have "the most go for the dough". If the raised the price on any Mustangs, it wouldn't change the fact that the Dodge Viper is the better vehicle.

Originally posted by vortech
hey shithead---the pic he had up was of a 2001 cobra---and they are different in the fron, rear, side, and hood. Shaddup ya dope-----if you actually owned an 01---you'd know where the differences lie. Lastly, I'm a big fan of the Viper I posted--not the current one. You know what----just shut your fricken mouth----you don't read the posts closely----and I was talkin to Devil on that not you. When I want to hear shit from you---I'll squeeze your head---so don't start flaming---or I'll resort to being impolite agin.

Well it is a little late for that now isn't it?

Anyhow; I understand it was a 2001, I stated that in my post. I guess I missed the point of your post, I'm sorry, it is no need to get your undies in a freaking wad. I don't know what your damn problem with me it, I have never even given you shit, I have been polite up until now, I have put up with you bashing my car, but it seems you aren't capable of self control just because I have a contrasting opinion.

I am sorry if I've pissed you off for some damn stupid reason, but I won't tollerate someone talking to me like that. I am done with this crap thread, because that is all it has become.

uh yeah it would compete with the Viper. It would have to for the money you spend on it. It would be twice the car it is now. Yes you're absolutely correct if the Viper came with a V6 option, a weaker v8, and the big block, it probably wouldn't be looked at as an exotic. And if the Cobra was that expensive it probably would be an exotic.

Thus goes back to my theory. High price, high power, rare, and exported all around the world = exotic.

As for that new concept Mustang, at first I liked it. I like the 60's car designs a lot and I still think the new Thunderbird looks great. But my friend who is an absolute Mustang fanatic argued that he couldn't stand that retro look and that he wanted something new and up to date. The more I thought about it, the more I started to see his way. It is rediculous to design a car to look similar to it's older model, especially if its a high performance car like a Mustang. Why bother? If I want a car that looks like a 60's version, I'll go out and buy a 60's version. I can buy a 65 Mustang for like $20,000 if I wanted to.

And with that said look at what GM does. Has the Firebird ever gone retro? Has the Camaro ever gone retro? Does the GTO look any bit like the old GTO's? Hell the new GTO doesn't even use a 389 or 400 (which would of been nice to have). Corvette gone retro? Not even a new Stingray, instead there is the Z06. No muscle car GM makes has ever went back to an old style instead they have improved year after year. And thats what they should do. The only thing GM has that is retro is that SSR pickup truck.

you've proved your point---the Viper is every bit the Exotic.
:bandit:

thats the problem with Ford going retro---its go backwards in time---to capture what???? Its so fricken uninventive---that it almost makes you wonder if there are any new creative ideas up in Dearborn. Manufacturers should be moving forward--not backwards in time. They should have left it alone---the current 'New Edge' design is the right direction. Is Dodge going to build the Charger??? The concept model----looks awesome. And is the Razor going into production??? Thats a pretty mean looking car itself.

The worst thing about mustangs are all the v6's out there and their drivers that think that they are all that. What they shoud've done IMO is make some radical outside diferences between the cobra and the v6 model.

Originally posted by vortech
thats the problem with Ford going retro---its go backwards in time---to capture what???? Its so fricken uninventive---that it almost makes you wonder if there are any new creative ideas up in Dearborn. Manufacturers should be moving forward--not backwards in time. They should have left it alone---the current 'New Edge' design is the right direction. Is Dodge going to build the Charger??? The concept model----looks awesome. And is the Razor going into production??? Thats a pretty mean looking car itself.

I doo agree with that too. That is why I like my car so much because the design style does not copy any other car except that they should have made it more powerful:( guess its up to me to change that. :D

Unfotunatelly the public does not want originality. What they want is V6 mustangs and civics. I bet if the cobra (wich IMO is the only mustang worth it) has been the only version avaible it wou've went the way of the f-bodies.

mustangs are all the v6's out there and their drivers that think that they are all that
Do they all think they are all that, or is it just teenagers? I usually see lots of teenagers with v6 mustangs pretending that they have something tough, because thats the way they want to feel. Their kids, what else do you expect?

I don't think what happend to the F-bodies could ever happen to the cobras----even it was the only mustang offered. The F-bodies always came with more power in each version offered. Most importantly---every year in the 90s----ford sold between 65K-100K more overall mustang models than F-bodies were sold. That tells you one thing----a mustang is much more appealing to the public than an F-body. The disparity in numbers of units sold---shows just how much more popular the stangs were overall. The f-bodies----died out primarily because the designs went downhill----and their parent company didn't think much of investing in them anymore. The camaro & firebirds will be back----but they just don't have the appeal they did in the earlier decades.

:right: If the newer models were as popular with today's consumer---they would easily be reflected in sales.

the current cobra is radically different---and no one will mistaken it for a V6. Even the previous models----99 & up would not be mistakened for a V6.

The camaro & firebirds will be back----but they just don't have the appeal they did in the earlier decades.
Now in the Camaro I can see that. Though the latest style is a great improvement, Z28's still look very plain. SS make up for a little bit more with the exhaust pipes, nicer spoiler, and that hood scoop, but I never see many of those on the road.

The Firebirds on the other hand, I think the latest Trans Am is one of the most wicked aggressive designs I have ever seen them make. At least where I live apparantly people do like it I see a lot more Trans Ams then Z28s. But one city isn't enough to make up for sales.

I also like the look of the firebirds. They have a mean look and an unusual exhaust note. One thing------i've only seen one once-----once being a FIREHAWK. I don't understand why its a car that never, ever got mentioned each year when it came out. From what I've read about the firehawk---it came with some extra goodies from the SLP wing----but I can't honestly ever remember any article on it in any mag. Is the firehawk---an aftermarket car with little to no afiliation with Pontiac or what? Do you have any idea why its so low key? :confused:

How about posting some pics of these cars for those (such as me) who arent so knowledgeable about american cars? :)

I don't really know why they don't mention it very much. A couple years ago I used to see them all over the road now all of a sudden they are extremely rare to seen. I don't think I have seen one since.

When the Firehawk first came out in I think 91 or 92, that car would rip it up. I could be wrong but I think the first Firehawk was around 360 hp. Not bad for the times when 350 V8's came with 240hp. It has always been one of SLP's little toys that they tinker around with. SLP makes a modified Camaro SS just like the Firehawks but I've never seen one at a dealership. You probably have to order the Camaros.

The new Firehawks are mainly a less exhaust restricted Trans Am. They are 345 hp instead of 325. They also combine the 4 nasal looking passages on the front into two big ram air scoops.

Firebird Trans Am Collector's Edition
http://www.andyklein.com/images/KleinSalesFloorc.jpg

Firehawk
http://www.noels.com/03-18-02_02_RED_FIREHAWK_RFimage.jpg
Note the difference in the ram air scoops. Only the top two scoops on the Trans Am work.
Another Firehawk pic
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/02129181990003LRG.jpg


There is also another version of the Firebird, but most likely you'll never see one because it is so rare. Why are they so rare? Because it is too expensive. The price is around the same as a Corvette, so most people would rather go with a Vette then an expensive Firebird. It's called the Pontiac Blackbird or Blackbird Year One edition. Its 380 hp. You can go here to see more pictures and learn more about it. http://www.geocities.com/ramairta2002/2002blackbird.html
http://www.geocities.com/ramairta2002/35thbb-b.jpg

thanks for the pics... i would have thought that something that looks like this would do well in the States. How come it wasnt a big success?

Vortech I guess the reason the Firehawk isn't mentioned is its a special edition type car. Kind of like the Bullitt Mustang. I'm not surprised the Bullitt isn't advertised but what I don't get is why doesn't Ford ever advertise the brand new Mach I or its new Cobra? I would at least think they would have something for the Cobra since its completely different from the others.

How come it wasnt a big success?
In my area it is a big success. It's about as much success as the V8 Mustangs. I see more Trans Ams then I ever see Z28 Camaros, and a Super Sport Camaro is extremely rare.

The Firebird I would think has a more feminine appeal to it then either a Camaro or Mustang. I could definately see a lot of girls riding in something like that bright red Firehawk with t-tops, but for some reason that isn't the case anymore. It used to be that way when the 3rd gen was around. It's strange to see more Trans Ams though then Camaro SS, Super Sports which are almost as nice looking start at $29,000, where as a Trans Am starts at $31,000. You would think you would see more SS's around but I guess there are that many people out there willing to pay more for the nicer styling of the Firebird.

the more and more I look at pics of that firehawk----the more appealing the car gets. I'm not surprised about ford not advertising the Mach I or cobra. At last check, the Mach I was nearly presold--according to blueovalnews. And the Cobra well---I've always beleievd that current or past mustang owners---make up a good portion of the customers who buy cobras, bullits, etc. Only about 8,000 cobras were made this year---and I think only 6,500 Mach Is are to be made. So looking at it over 50 states---itseasy to get them sold. I beleive theres an SVT dealer in every state in the us.

its kinda like the Viper----I can't remember ever seeing a Viper commercial---I beleive people that have money to spend and follow sports cars being made by manufacturers---make up a huge portion of the Viper. So many have been seen on the rode---that practically everyone knows about it-------and I'm sure that those that have that kind of money to spend----always get an image in there mind of a Viper---when it comes down to buying a car in that price range.

There was probably no viper exclusive comercial but it does apear in a lot of Dodge comercials.

yea, i especially like the one with the Viper doin a flip, but does it also get Dodge's powertrain warranties and such or not? maybe what would be a question for Viper 10

V10_viper, that was the best Dodge commercial and one of the best car commercials I have ever seen. :p