Bashing Fram
Booch
07-31-2005, 11:36 PM
Okay guys, I've heard everyone bashing Fram for awhile, and I'd just like to put a few things into perspective....
Up until recently, I worked at AlliedSignal / Honeywell. I was there for a little over 10 years, and the division I was in builds Garrett Turbochargers, Bendix Brakes, Autolite spark plugs, Prestone products, and, yes, Fram Filters.
There seems to be 2 major issues with Fram that everyone likes to complain about; the fibre-board endcaps and the size of the filter paper (as compared against competitive filters).
1) ENDCAPS: It is true that other filter manufacturer's use metal endcaps. Also, all filter manufacturer's glue the filter paper / cartridge assembly to the endcap. However, ask yourself this; what has a better glue bond; filter paper to fibre-board endcap or filter paper to metal? Paper to paper has a much higher bond strength than paper to metal, and is less likely to fail under pressure. Also, as the engine temp rises, the expansion of the paper filter media and fibre-board endcap are similar. This is not the case with a metal / paper combination, and the glue can actually tear off the filter media or come off the metal endcap after a few heat / cool cycles.
2) FILTERING AREA: Believe it or not, every major filter manufacturer buys filter paper from one of 3 suppliers in North America; Hollingsworth and Vose (H&V), Ahlstrom, and Custom Papers. While each filter manufacturer has their own proprietary 'ingredients,' all papers come from one of these three companies.
Before you look at paper size / amount / etc, you have to look at 3 factors; single pass efficiency, multi-pass efficiency, and capacity. Fram tends to use a much BETTER paper than the competition. Because of this, they DON'T NEED to use as much paper; it would be overkill. I don't understand why everyone simply looks at quantity, and not quality! The higher the synthetic media content (aka fiberglass), the better the filter. Cheaper ones have cellulose only (trees). The Fram Xtended Guard is 100% glass, has to have front and back screens (fibreglass doesn't have any strength by itself as does paper), and will hold so much dirt that you don't have to change it for 70,000 miles.
Lastly, BlazerLT made some comments about Fram filters coming from overseas; not the case at all. Fram had a plant in Monterrey, Mexico up until a few years ago (this was closed around 2003). All Fram filter manufacturing is now exclusively in Greenville, OH, Clearfield UT, and Stratford, Ontario, Canada (filters from Greenville have a date code starting with an 'A', while filters from Clearfield have a date code starting with a 'C'). Fram's R & D facilities are in Perrysburg, OH (where I used to work).
A very small percent of low volume / specialty filters are purchased globally (for instance, Intercontinental Auto Parts supplies fuel filters to Fram, Purolator, etc; these are made in Isreal). In most cases, Fram is purchasing the Fram-branded filter from the OEM manufacturer, who is overseas (Mann-Hummel is a large European supplier, while Sogefi is a large manufacturer in South Africa; both are OE for some US filters). Also, keep in mind that Fram is QS9000 certified, and was working to the new TS16949 certification (these are both requirements in the automotive industry; a few steps beyond the ISO9000 you see everywhere today). A supplier of any new filter has to provide drawings, test data, control plans and FMEA's; filters were sourced from different suppliers due to capability, not necessarily cost.
In any case, check the country of origin printed on the package, next to the UPC code; 7 out of 10 times you'll see USA, and 2 out of 10 times you'll see Canada as the Country of Origin.
If you still decide not to buy Fram, that's your purogative. I just hope I've educated you a little, and you can now make a more informed choice.
Again, keep in mind I haven't worked their for about a year and a half, and I have no allegiance to Honeywell or their brands. However, I did see / review competitor filters all the time, and continue to buy the Tough Guard for my own vehicles to this day.
One last piece of advice; no matter what filter you buy, you can usually get a taller filter onto your vehicle, which will add that extra bit of filtering and oil capacity. For instance, if your vehicle calls for a PH3387A, a PH3980 will fit on the motor as well, which is about 2 inches taller. Just be sure you have the clearance in the engine compartment to mount the longer filter.
Up until recently, I worked at AlliedSignal / Honeywell. I was there for a little over 10 years, and the division I was in builds Garrett Turbochargers, Bendix Brakes, Autolite spark plugs, Prestone products, and, yes, Fram Filters.
There seems to be 2 major issues with Fram that everyone likes to complain about; the fibre-board endcaps and the size of the filter paper (as compared against competitive filters).
1) ENDCAPS: It is true that other filter manufacturer's use metal endcaps. Also, all filter manufacturer's glue the filter paper / cartridge assembly to the endcap. However, ask yourself this; what has a better glue bond; filter paper to fibre-board endcap or filter paper to metal? Paper to paper has a much higher bond strength than paper to metal, and is less likely to fail under pressure. Also, as the engine temp rises, the expansion of the paper filter media and fibre-board endcap are similar. This is not the case with a metal / paper combination, and the glue can actually tear off the filter media or come off the metal endcap after a few heat / cool cycles.
2) FILTERING AREA: Believe it or not, every major filter manufacturer buys filter paper from one of 3 suppliers in North America; Hollingsworth and Vose (H&V), Ahlstrom, and Custom Papers. While each filter manufacturer has their own proprietary 'ingredients,' all papers come from one of these three companies.
Before you look at paper size / amount / etc, you have to look at 3 factors; single pass efficiency, multi-pass efficiency, and capacity. Fram tends to use a much BETTER paper than the competition. Because of this, they DON'T NEED to use as much paper; it would be overkill. I don't understand why everyone simply looks at quantity, and not quality! The higher the synthetic media content (aka fiberglass), the better the filter. Cheaper ones have cellulose only (trees). The Fram Xtended Guard is 100% glass, has to have front and back screens (fibreglass doesn't have any strength by itself as does paper), and will hold so much dirt that you don't have to change it for 70,000 miles.
Lastly, BlazerLT made some comments about Fram filters coming from overseas; not the case at all. Fram had a plant in Monterrey, Mexico up until a few years ago (this was closed around 2003). All Fram filter manufacturing is now exclusively in Greenville, OH, Clearfield UT, and Stratford, Ontario, Canada (filters from Greenville have a date code starting with an 'A', while filters from Clearfield have a date code starting with a 'C'). Fram's R & D facilities are in Perrysburg, OH (where I used to work).
A very small percent of low volume / specialty filters are purchased globally (for instance, Intercontinental Auto Parts supplies fuel filters to Fram, Purolator, etc; these are made in Isreal). In most cases, Fram is purchasing the Fram-branded filter from the OEM manufacturer, who is overseas (Mann-Hummel is a large European supplier, while Sogefi is a large manufacturer in South Africa; both are OE for some US filters). Also, keep in mind that Fram is QS9000 certified, and was working to the new TS16949 certification (these are both requirements in the automotive industry; a few steps beyond the ISO9000 you see everywhere today). A supplier of any new filter has to provide drawings, test data, control plans and FMEA's; filters were sourced from different suppliers due to capability, not necessarily cost.
In any case, check the country of origin printed on the package, next to the UPC code; 7 out of 10 times you'll see USA, and 2 out of 10 times you'll see Canada as the Country of Origin.
If you still decide not to buy Fram, that's your purogative. I just hope I've educated you a little, and you can now make a more informed choice.
Again, keep in mind I haven't worked their for about a year and a half, and I have no allegiance to Honeywell or their brands. However, I did see / review competitor filters all the time, and continue to buy the Tough Guard for my own vehicles to this day.
One last piece of advice; no matter what filter you buy, you can usually get a taller filter onto your vehicle, which will add that extra bit of filtering and oil capacity. For instance, if your vehicle calls for a PH3387A, a PH3980 will fit on the motor as well, which is about 2 inches taller. Just be sure you have the clearance in the engine compartment to mount the longer filter.
blazee
08-01-2005, 09:04 AM
It appears that you are just shit stirring, because you posted this in another thread and after three hours of no response you decided to start a new thread.
These issues have been discussed many times, so instead of going through all of it again, here is a thread that covers most of them:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=373841 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=373841)
These issues have been discussed many times, so instead of going through all of it again, here is a thread that covers most of them:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=373841 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=373841)
DINO55
08-01-2005, 09:24 AM
Amen Blazee, Orange Fram Filters SUCK...
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