300ZX Drifting Downfalls?


GSR2NR94
07-05-2005, 01:10 AM
I never see anyone drifting Z32's. What is the downfall on making those into drift cars? I know they are heavy and all, and the engine isn't much of a high revver, but what if you were to put in a 2JZ, or an SR, or an RB? Im just curious because I love Z32's, but I never see them drifting. Why not?

Broke_as_****
07-05-2005, 01:22 AM
Well to my understanding the ability to rev to X rpm is not as important as the ability to keep the tires spinning, which the VG can most certainly do. Probably because S13s and AE86s are alot cheaper to repair.

240SXSlideStar
07-05-2005, 01:23 AM
Probably because the body isnt stiff enough (with the targa top and all). Or is it a t-top..well no matter, it prolly makes the body a lot less stiff.

Hit_N_Run-player
07-05-2005, 01:26 AM
becuase nobody has tried it alot? i would but i can barely afford to buy a 240 let alone a zed

240SXSlideStar
07-05-2005, 01:29 AM
People drift Skylines in Japan and they are more expensive then Zeds, Z32s aren't even drifted in Japan.

Broke_as_****
07-05-2005, 01:32 AM
Probably because the body isnt stiff enough (with the targa top and all). Or is it a t-top..well no matter, it prolly makes the body a lot less stiff.

I don't about that. My Z is much stiffer than my 240 even with the strut braces on it. I had a ghetto home made brace for the front sub-frame on the 240 too, that helped alot but the welds started breaking after a year so I just took it off. Probably should have used better tubing.

Hit_N_Run-player
07-05-2005, 01:33 AM
hmmmmm, wheelbase reasons? im just taking a guess but i have heard that is why the G35 is drifted more than the 350z becuase of the larger wheelbase

supracampbe11
07-05-2005, 06:56 AM
The only important downfall is that it is not as popular as the 240sx or corolla, which are mostly seen. In drifting a downfall of one fr car is not as important as another. Remember drifting is not a race or an event for only one type of car.I have seen a truck at chicago drift events, civics and integras, dsm, and z's from all generations. So I don't think there is any downfall with the z32, except for the driver.

leestewart
07-05-2005, 07:18 AM
I had a Z32 and it was fun to drift. I would say the repair costs is what keeps them out of it most

GSR2NR94
07-05-2005, 07:23 AM
Well a guy I know has a Z32 TT with 70,000 on it and he was willing to sell it to me for $7500 which is mega cheap. I was just wondering because I would love to build a 300ZX drift car that no one uses. Kinda like the RS*R S2000. Id probably mount an SR or something in it. Who knows. There has to me a different downfall than popularity though. It doesnt seem like people would just not drift them because they are less popular. I mena, those are bad ass cars. So why not drift them?

240SXSlideStar
07-05-2005, 08:20 AM
Anyone who says they aren't drifted for money reasons is wrong. You think drift teams give a shit about repair costs? People drift FDs all the time and they are in the same price range as Z32s. People drift everything in Japan, but I've never seen a drift Z32, it's not a question of money, there's just something about how the car is built that doesn't make it any good, maybe its to wide and not long enough or maybe the steering angle is garbage, who knows.

GSR2NR94
07-05-2005, 09:29 AM
That what I want to know. I don't get it. I mean, if they can modify an S2000 to have the right suspension and setup for drifting, then why not the 300ZX? Damn, I wanna find out.

SHIFT_KA24DE
07-05-2005, 10:08 AM
not many people have tried it... that's all. Additionally, Z32's are power monsters with their VG's... nobody wants a heavy drift car. (well except for american drifters with their vipers and GTOs... wtf...) anyway, i'm sure it's not a hidden legend waiting to be unleashed or anything..

here's a nissan commercial that aired when the first Z32's came out...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/s/d/sdt128/misc/Z1.mpeg

i'd use the Z for wangan racing in japan... =] muahaha...

GSR2NR94
07-05-2005, 10:26 AM
Well it probably wouldn't be nearly as heavy if you were to out in an SR or something. I think it would kick ass. I mean, aren't 350Z's around that weight also?

LaYzIeNoY
07-05-2005, 01:05 PM
ya it's weird, i doubt money issues rwd integra?????,

maybe it's popularity of the other cars and car companies giving up new cars to the teams as semi advertising

orestes
07-05-2005, 01:05 PM
curb weight is like 3350 pounds. heavy but not that heavy. the GTO is 3750.

240SXSlideStar
07-05-2005, 02:41 PM
Prolly because there's to much weight in the back of an NSX and it's hard to keep it steady. And they make HICAS eliminators for the 240, why wouldn't they just stick one on a Z32 and drift the thing? And I thought only JDM Z32s had HICAS and it wasn't all fo them.

LaYzIeNoY
07-05-2005, 03:50 PM
nah the US 300zx TT had HICAS too

i remeber becuase my friends has it

i know that alot of people that i know with 300zx tt for auto-x

240SXSlideStar
07-05-2005, 04:06 PM
Do they all have it?

coolbone28
07-05-2005, 04:38 PM
i believe all of the TT models have HICAS. the n/a do not. also teh TT have the t-tops and are heavier too. the ideal thing would be to get a non-turbo model and swap out engines.

SHIFT_KA24DE
07-05-2005, 06:23 PM
one of tsuchiya's favorite cars to use for drifting was the nsx... well it was... until he crashed it...

Broke_as_****
07-05-2005, 06:33 PM
there's just something about how the car is built that doesn't make it any good

Well there is the most educated thing I've ever read.

Anyway, all Twin Turbo models came with HICAS, the NAs did not. Like the 240, ready made HICAS eliminator kits can be found for fairly cheap.

T-tops were standard for the car, Twin Turbo or NA. (http://twinturbo.net/ttnetrides/208/208header.jpg)

There was a convertible version made in 93-96. (http://www.ragtpz.com/images/frontpagepic.jpg)

A limited amount of non T-top cars, refered to as slick tops, were made through out the production run. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4543379174)

All US slick tops were non-turbo.

There was a 2+2 (had a back seat) made throughout the production run that came as both NA and TT overseas but only as NA in the US. And like the 240SX, the back seat was not so much a "seat" as it was a rear storage shelf.

The NA and TT models are pretty much the same car except for a few heavier duty pieces on the TT so swapping a TT motor into a NA chassis isn't going to save any weight.

http://escort-us.com/img/BM3.JPG
Ignore the 747 wing on the ass.

As for why you don't see them drifting? Well no matter how much money the top drift stars make now they started at the bottom. And if you've been drifting the same car for years you know what it can and can't do and how it will respond to changes in tires, suspension and power. You also have to remember that S13s, S14s, AE86s and the like are very popular with those don't get paid big money to drift. Being a big time star driving the same car as their auidence wins fans I would imagine.

And:

one of tsuchiya's favorite cars to use for drifting was the nsx... well it was... until he crashed it...

There is still the fact that buying and repairing a Z32 is going to cost alot more than a 180sx.

Crashing comes with racing. Drifting is controlled crashing, most of the time.

Chuki_breath
07-05-2005, 07:33 PM
truth is who knows???

nothing is problem for it. It can all be modified. Weight, blah. steering angle, blah. Hicas, blah. A sponsored drift team can take car of all of that if they wanted to. But that is a good realization, i never really noticed that they're never used. There kind of the underdog(in popularity) in alot of stuff arnt they.

240SXSlideStar
07-05-2005, 07:45 PM
Well there is the most educated thing I've ever read.

It might be stupid, but it's obviously true.

Well no matter how much money the top drift stars make now they started at the bottom. And if you've been drifting the same car for years you know what it can and can't do and how it will respond to changes in tires, suspension and power. You also have to remember that S13s, S14s, AE86s and the like are very popular with those don't get paid big money to drift. Being a big time star driving the same car as their auidence wins fans I would imagine.

And that's why there's an S2000 with a rebuilt steering rack, a G35, a Mustang, 2 Vipers and a GTO, I see the fans drift these cars everyday and these are the cars that the drivers drove when they were living off instant noodles and using there last few dollars for gas and tires when hadn't even eaten in the last 2 days. Not.

There is still the fact that buying and repairing a Z32 is going to cost alot more than a 180sx.

Again, buying and fixing up a G35, Viper, GTO, RX-7, Supra, S2000 or 350Z will be as much or more then a 300ZX, so money is once again, not an issue!

Broke_as_****
07-05-2005, 08:04 PM
It might be stupid, but it's obviously true.

Now you are stealing a page from the same logic that stated the world was flat for thousands of years. I would like you to point out anything about any car that makes it "undriftable", barring front wheel drive perhaps. As for why it is not popular for drifting I can imagine that being specifically designed to keep the tires planted would be an ass-backward place to start when trying to keep them loose. The fact other cars loose their composure far quicker hardly translates into the Z being gimped.

And that's why there's an S2000 with a rebuilt steering rack, a G35, a Mustang, 2 Vipers and a GTO, I see the fans drift these cars everyday and these are the cars that the drivers drove when they were living off instant noodles and using there last few dollars for gas and tires when hadn't even eaten in the last 2 days. Not. Again, buying and fixing up a G35, Viper, GTO, RX-7, Supra, S2000 or 350Z will be as much or more then a 300ZX, so money is once again, not an issue!

Partially correct. Money is not an issue for those who can afford those cars. For the guys who are just barely affording a S13, all of the above are out of their price range.

Chuki_breath
07-05-2005, 08:21 PM
it maybe out of there price range, but thats irrelavent. Because even the sponsored teams dont use them. I dont think anyone is really talking about the average joe who owns a 300zx anyway. I think the main point is that not even sponsored teams use them either. There must be a reason??

Broke_as_****
07-05-2005, 08:53 PM
Because as stated:

It was specifically designed to keep both front and rear tires going in more or less the same direction.

Other cars weren't.

Other cars have greater status among fans.

Other cars have greater status for being easier to drift, the first to be drifted, etc and so on.

If you are looking for something along the lines of:

"The 300ZXs tie rod is of insufficent length to drift."

then you will be coming up empty handed.

orestes
07-05-2005, 09:36 PM
As for why it is not popular for drifting I can imagine that being specifically designed to keep the tires planted would be an ass-backward place to start when trying to keep them loose. The fact other cars loose their composure far quicker hardly translates into the Z being gimped.

since when is the Z the king of grip? ive seen Z's that have no problem getting loose around corners and Z's that keep up with Evo's through mountain roads. good cars but i dont see what would hold people back from drifting them. but if somehow it was extra hard to get the tires loose then i dont think the sponsors would have any trouble adding enough power to make it easy. i think it has to be some other reason than their construction. probably just if people want a nissan they go for a s13 or 14

240SXSlideStar
07-05-2005, 10:05 PM
Basically, it's "who the fuck cares."

SHIFT_KA24DE
07-05-2005, 10:34 PM
Z32 and a 240sx?

let's say you did a sr swap and the same amount of weight reduction to both cars....

240sx would still be superior... cost, wheelbase, weight, etc...

plus the Z32 is shorter and wider compared to the 240... hence, hard to control drifts and less maneuverability.

GSR2NR94
07-05-2005, 11:46 PM
Basically, it's "who the fuck cares."

Well, last time I checked, people make posts for a reason, and I made this one, so obviously, I CARE.

Anyways, I just love the Z32's all around and I am not going to buy a car that is uncapable of becoming a good drift car. If anyone else comes across some more adds showing the Z32 drifting or something, post them please.

AWDSR20
07-06-2005, 12:30 AM
Z32>>>>>>>>>>>240sx


r u serious, i have a 240, i love it...but, the Z32 R a SEAIOUS SPORT CAR! HYCAS, LSD, hella strong BODY! powerful motor, smaller, more nimble, and wayyyy far more intended d for the track then the 240...


no one races the 240.. but the Z, its all over the place !


i LOOOVVVVEEE my 240 but again... the DRIFT stuff is cool, and i bet they car DRIFT the Z, but why? its a matter of publicity, Z32 already have publicity, 240 needs the spot light more then the Z!

AWDSR20
07-06-2005, 12:42 AM
wow, ok here is my post again but in english!

the Z32 R a Serious SPORT CAR! It has HYCAS, LSD, hella strong BODY! Powerful motor, smaller, more nimble, and wayyyy more intended d for the track then the 240...


no one races the 240.. but the Z, its all over the place !


i LOOOVVVVEEE my 240 but again... the DRIFT stuff is cool, and i bet they cane DRIFT the Z, but why? its a matter of publicity, Z32 already have publicity, 240 needs the spot light more then the Z!

240SXSlideStar
07-06-2005, 01:38 AM
Well, last time I checked, people make posts for a reason, and I made this one, so obviously, I CARE.

Anyways, I just love the Z32's all around and I am not going to buy a car that is uncapable of becoming a good drift car. If anyone else comes across some more adds showing the Z32 drifting or something, post them please.

I meant, we've discused it for 2 pages, no one seems to know for sure, there's no point discussing it further, unless someone knows the real answer.

-The Stig-
07-06-2005, 02:40 AM
Just for the record, the GTO Rhys Millen drives doesn't weight 3700lbs like the production one.

It's fully stripped and weighs in just under 3000lbs. GTO's are fairly fat from the factory, but that's mainly cause there is no other option for them. They're all fully loaded. There is no 'premium' package, it's all leather.

Gotta be fair in these discussions. ;)

orestes
07-06-2005, 03:11 AM
yeah, that just illustrates how weight is not an issue with the Z. the same can be done to the Z, but you are already ahead 400 pounds.

-The Stig-
07-06-2005, 10:42 AM
300zx's weigh around 3700lbs themselves. They're very heavy. I've had quite a few friends with them and they said with full fuel and full optioned out with leather and what not they're just about 4000lbs.

Which isn't suprising. They're fat. But can be fast.

GSR2NR94
07-06-2005, 11:33 AM
Wrong. They are about 3350 lbs like someone stated earlier. Not 3700.

longlivetheZ
07-06-2005, 06:02 PM
I asked the same thing before and from what I understand, the steering isn't geared right to allow for enough counter steering to keep the thing from spinning out. (I guess the 240s turn more...I dunno.) That, along with the HICAS trying to keep a drift from happening and the suspention setup in general not really liking it too much to begin with all work together to make the Z32 not the best drift car in the world...I guess. What I don't know is, why don't people use Z31s. I know for a FACT that they get sideways pretty easy...my last Z31, an 86T with a 5-speed trans, would get sideways on dry ground in 3rd gear before I put new tires on it. It was down right horrifying in the rain. They don't have the HICAS, either. I'd think they'd work quite well.

-The Stig-
07-06-2005, 06:18 PM
Wrong. They are about 3350 lbs like someone stated earlier. Not 3700.


Okay, well you can believe that. But I'm going to believe my friend who actually had one. And I still know friends who still have them.

A fully loaded Twin Turbo 300zx will tip the scales over 3500lbs.

orestes
07-06-2005, 07:15 PM
i found the other number at another site but this site (http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2347/act/usedcarreviewspecs/) has it as

2-door convertible: 3446
2-door hatchback: 3299
2-door hatchback (2+2): 3413

so 300-400 pound savings over the GTO. (stock)

i wonder what Millen's GTO actually does weigh in at though.

240SXSlideStar
07-06-2005, 09:00 PM
The S2000 steering rack iss garbage for drifting so they swapped in an RX-7 steering rack in Papa's S2k.

longlivetheZ
07-07-2005, 12:53 AM
I might be making a z31 drift car, all I really want to do is some basic springs/struts/brake upgrades/and put in this hicas s13 VLSD if I can ever get it to work in a z31. I don't know what I want to do for power yet, its a non turbo 2 seater, 5 speed, 87 model year..... I could either put another turbo v6 in it, another kind of v6, a v8, or I've been pondering a RB20DET swap and have a usdm 200zr.... that would make a nice drift car I think.

Why make it more difficult than it has to be? The 87-89 turbo Z31s all had R200 clutch type LSDs from the factory. Why try to get another one to work when it has one? As for the engine, again, why make it more difficult than it has to be with a swap? Just get a turbo one and mod the one that's in it. Find a 87-89 one and you'd have your LSD and power problem pretty much licked out of the box...few mods and you're good to go. They're not the most modern engines ever, but they're plenty capable of producing power.

longlivetheZ
07-07-2005, 11:11 AM
only stock turbo z31's have the posi unit, I have a non turbo as stated earlier.

I know that. That's why I said that, if you got a turbo car (87-89 only...84-86 didn't have LSDs...why, I dunno), you'd be killing 2 birds with 1 stone...you'd be solving your power issue and your LSD issue.

Putting in a Rb20det is really not harder then putting in a VG30ET to me, I have many tools and lifts...... The V nature of the engine makes a turbo setup odd on it. I like turbo's on straight motors. i know im a fool

Fool, no...yer just special...lol...not really. The turbo system on the VG is one of the simplest out there. No I/C, no fancy twin setup, no blow off valves, no nothing. Just a turbo. Simplicity is grand at times...

I didn't know the z31's had a clutch LSD, I thought they were all VLSD's.

Yup...the Z31 came equipped with an R200 (and new ones (http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CP&Category_Code=z31_nismo_limitedslip) aren't cheap, either...) clutch type LSD from 87-89. I'd get one off a junk car if I were you...if you can find one...good luck with that. All the Z32s come with VSLDs...that's probably what you're thinking about. :biggrin:

longlivetheZ
07-09-2005, 07:53 PM
The exhaust manifold is pretty straight forward on it and it's all heat shielded (EXTREMELY WELL...taking all that off is kind of a bitch when the bolts have all been...like...welded on...) so it's not TOO bad. They look quite restrictive, though. Going to look into fabbing up a custom manifold cuz the stock ones don't look too good for the flowage.

I guess what it all ultimately comes down to in the end is, work with what you've got. Good luck with it, man!

Grimmer
08-10-2005, 07:13 PM
Anyone who says they aren't drifted for money reasons is wrong. You think drift teams give a shit about repair costs? People drift FDs all the time and they are in the same price range as Z32s. People drift everything in Japan, but I've never seen a drift Z32, it's not a question of money, there's just something about how the car is built that doesn't make it any good, maybe its to wide and not long enough or maybe the steering angle is garbage, who knows.

Well to let you guys know. There is a kid in Japan that Won Battle of the Drifts in his Z3 . They kept telling him that it really is not the best car to drift in. Two reasons really, wheel base and and the modifications needed to to get the steering angle much more dramatic.

<a href="http://www.streetneeds.com/ttnet/up/bm2.jpg">pic</a>;
<a href="http://northwestnissans.com/board/archive/index.php/t-14733.html">Link</a>;

That should pretty much settle the issue.

R.W.240
08-10-2005, 07:30 PM
huh... this one must have slipped by me when my computer was down... a month ago...


Z32s shouldnt have a problem with adding angle... below the tie rod its all S13 stuff.

An S13 Hicas rack and Uras Inners are all that guy probably used.

I kinda want a Z to build into a drift car.

Z31s have a Clutch type R200? HHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMmmmmmmmm Verrrryy Interesting.


* > Z31

mowerman121
02-26-2012, 07:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86g9wSPA7M
Dont drift in Japan? not sure where you got that from. There are 3 drivers featured in d1 articles for drifting their Z32's. They use TT 2+2 since it has a 10 in. longer wheelbase allowing more control with tie rod spacers for more angle. 3 people including myself drift 2+2's on our local drifting circuit. it can for sure be done, you just have to be very commited to the task at hand and give it your all

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