P0133, P1133, and P0341 in Saturn SC1


saturndriver
06-17-2005, 02:23 PM
I recently brought my 2001 Saturn SC1 in for emissions testing and failed because of these trouble codes: P0133, P1133, and P0341. The car also idles high from time to time and I notice vibration in the lower RPMs. I've also been told that this car has been burning oil although I don't know why (or if I trust the mechanic who told me that). Since I don't trust anyone in a garage to give a straight answer, I was hoping for some advice on what the REAL problem(s) might be? I had a tune-up and replaced the plugs/wires about a year ago - although I had to bring it back right after the tune up because one of the plugs popped out (so I don't trust that the work was done right). I think that P0133 and P1133 are related to a bad O2 sensor, but have read many different theories on P0341? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

sierrap615
06-18-2005, 01:21 AM
DTC P0133 HO2S Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor 1
DTC P0341 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Performance
DTC P1133 HO2S Insufficient Switching Bank 1 Sensor 1

P0133 and P1133 are basicly the same,they both mean your O2 is lazy. in order for the catalyic converter to work properly the PCM is constintly switch back and forth between rich and lean. a lazy O2 means the O2 sensor is not detecting this rich/lean switch fast enough for the PCM to be happy. a lazy O2 can sometimes also be identifyed by a coating of carbon on the sensor tip. normally a replacement O2 sensor is needed but....

the later years SOHC engines have a tendenicy to stuck the intake manifold in at the cylinder one runner, resulting in a vaccum leak. this would explan the high idle, and maybe the P0341, and although i have never heard of it seting a O2 sensor code, i imagine it may be possible. the quick check for the bad gasket would be spraying the area where the intake manifold mets the head with some carb and choke cleaner, if the RPMs drop, you have a vacuum leak.

if you do have a vaccum leak, i would repair it before working on the above codes(as the leak may have set the codes). otherwise, the P0133 and P1133 should simply need a new O2 sensor, and look here for the P0341 - http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43380

saturndriver
06-20-2005, 10:29 AM
wow, this is great info. while i can't do all this myself, i want to have the background knowledge when i take the car in to be looked at. i happened to notice in your profile that you're from downers grove. do you have any recommendations for a trustworthy mechanic/garage in chicago that would do the job right?

sierrap615
06-20-2005, 11:46 PM
well, i could always a little experince and cash.... but in reality no, the only guy i would recommend anyone to works on hot rods and antquies.

oldmanwalking
06-27-2005, 08:44 AM
my car acted similar and was setting the ses. The o2 sensor was bad in mine BUT the cts was also creating the high idle and ruffness when cold.

sierrap615
06-29-2005, 02:28 AM
i read a TSB today for the 99 model year with this DTC, an updated EEPROM should be installed, you may want to call up your saturn dealership and ask if there is a simular TSB for the 2001 model year.

saturndriver
06-29-2005, 10:12 AM
thanks to all for the great info. i brought the car in to the saturn dealership and they replaced the O2 sensor. they also said i had a cracked engine mount which they replaced. so far that has cleared the codes and stopped the vibration. they also wanted to replace the plugs & wires but i told them no because midas just did that 6 months ago. the dealership said midas used aftermarket plugs and wires which are causing misfire. i called midas about this and they said they did NOT use aftermarket parts and that the dealership was bs-ing me to sell me more work. all i know is that SOMEONE is bs-ing me and i have no idea if it's midas or the dealership.

this may be a dumb question, but how do i know if it really is a problem with the plugs & wires or not? if there's something wrong with them, then midas is liable and is obligated to fix the problem for free.

i'm going to be really pissed if my SES light comes back on before i make it back to the emissions facility.

oldmanwalking
06-29-2005, 03:19 PM
thanks to all for the great info. i brought the car in to the saturn dealership and they replaced the O2 sensor. they also said i had a cracked engine mount which they replaced. so far that has cleared the codes and stopped the vibration. they also wanted to replace the plugs & wires but i told them no because midas just did that 6 months ago. the dealership said midas used aftermarket plugs and wires which are causing misfire. i called midas about this and they said they did NOT use aftermarket parts and that the dealership was bs-ing me to sell me more work. all i know is that SOMEONE is bs-ing me and i have no idea if it's midas or the dealership.

this may be a dumb question, but how do i know if it really is a problem with the plugs & wires or not? if there's something wrong with them, then midas is liable and is obligated to fix the problem for free.

i'm going to be really pissed if my SES light comes back on before i make it back to the emissions facility.
If you are getting a misfire yet then you should see it on a code reader. You can check your wires to see if the ends are corroded and measure the resistance of the wires.. should be less than 12kohms.
You can also remove the plugs and inspect them to see if you have any fouling.
As far as plug wires I would always buy the best money can buy for they can give you some grief.. especially when its damp out.
If Saturn was getting a misfire code after they replaced your sensor I would have let them put the wires and plugs in.. but give me the old parts to take back to midas. I would trust saturn before a muffler place that sells plug wires anyday.

saturndriver
06-29-2005, 06:02 PM
Yes I agree that it's probably better to trust saturn over midas. However, I don't think Saturn read any misfire codes after replacing the sensor. In fact, I don't think they checked for any codes at all - they just went off the printout that I got from the emissions facility. My SES light is still off even after driving it around a few miles yesterday. This is why I'm baffled as to why they'd tell me the plugs/wires were causing misfire - everything seems to be running fine?? I'd imagine there would be symptoms that I would be experiencing if there were a problem? I would at the very least expect the car to run rough if there really was something wrong...

I think these guys see a woman coming and see nothing but dollar signs.

oldmanwalking
06-29-2005, 07:09 PM
If it doesn't come back I wouldn't worry about it.. They should have checked the codes after the repair and ran a diagnostic to see if everything was fine.. takes about 10minutes max and saves a lot of headache.
As far as you being a woman.. your probably right sad to say.

sierrap615
06-29-2005, 11:44 PM
they may be confusing the P0341 for a missfire, as they are closely related.

the plugs/wires can cause the P0341 - pull them out and visially inspect them, also if they are platium they can be a problem, some cars react fine to platium plugs, saturns don't. gap should be 0.040 inches. also don't confuse aftermarket and preformance replacements, if its not made by an OEM endorsed manufatiour its aftermarket, even if it mets OEM specs. in saturn's case i beleave only AC Delco and NGK are OEM replacement for spark plugs.

for a more detailed look into the P0341 check my link above

also just because a car passes a diagonitic check in the stall doesn't mean it it won't fail on the road, thats what OBD-II is for.

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