ok guys heres the deal... i am 16 now and during the summer i am hoping to bring in enough money to buy my first car. my older sister is going to college and is not allowed to drive her car, which is a bright green 99 jetta gl. i could just drive the jetta to school and back and let her use it when she gets home or something, but i really think it is time for me to get my own car. i was looking at cars such as early 240s, 3rd gen supras, and things at that nature, but as a 16 year old insurance is a big factor. so i am open to any suggestions on a car that is quick and fun to drive with some aftermarket that will not kill me on insurance. i am on here quite a bit and here people suggest 3rd gen integras, and older civics and corrollas, but really any feedback would help. not to forget, my budget is proly around 5000 - 8000, but my parents could chip in and i already have about 3000 in the bank from previous jobs. thank you guys in advance.

yeah insurance will kill you on anything with some speed to it, but 5 to 8 thousand will get you a nice car......integras are an option, also accords, maybe a escort zx-2 5 speed, that would be a good starter car

Its not really my style but integras are good starter cars. I have had 3 friends that got the older ones and nothing seems to go wrong with them and they are fairly cheap. One of my friends was an 89 and was just like new. It burned oil but he just kept putting a quart in every couple of weeks. He never changed the oil in 2 years but it still ran like a champ. Also another friend had a 91, it was a total POS but it was very mechanically sound. Pretty quick for what it was, much faster than the hondas and stuff that were local.

yea i was just saying what others had suggested but thats just it, there are a lot of tegs around and i wanted something unique, i am in no way saying anything about your posts, but was asking more of what cars do you suggest, like a was thinking miata, but i dont know they just scream homosexual (no offense)

A lot of people perceive Miatas as strictly girl cars. Those people are merely ignorant and judgmental, and don't let them deter you from buying what is quite possibly the best first car for someone looking for something sporty yet economical. If you care about straight-line power more than handling, the Miata might not be for you, but if you want to go autocrossing, drifting, or road racing, and you're looking for a first car, I can't recommend anything higher than a Miata.

yeah the miata is good car, dont know how the insurance would work out for you, but its a nice little car, excellent handling and quick and fun

to be honest, i'd buy some cheap beater car (which is in decent condition, like a honda/toyota) and really learn how to drive. You think you know how.. but when you face certain situations.. you won't know what to do and you'll be screwing yourself.

get a cheap car that is disposable.. just drive it for a lil under a year. then get yourself a better car

just a suggestion

Look for like a Civic, Integra, Prelude, Maxima, or something like that. Good luck finding a 3rd Gen Supra. :rolleyes:

One thing about the miata is that its a convertable. I don't know why but girls love a convertable. If I was 16 I would rather that than any other economy car. If you can find one for cheap go for it and pick up some chicks.

yea by no means am i saying i am going out to buy a 3rd gen supra or that i am mario andretti but i am going to consider a miata, it really all depends on the time and place. thanks for the help guys

A lot of people perceive Miatas as strictly girl cars. Those people are merely ignorant and judgmental, and don't let them deter you from buying what is quite possibly the best first car for someone looking for something sporty yet economical. If you care about straight-line power more than handling, the Miata might not be for you, but if you want to go autocrossing, drifting, or road racing, and you're looking for a first car, I can't recommend anything higher than a Miata.

by the way you should definetily be a moderator because of how much you help people, i am glad i got your opinion on the matter

why is everyone telling this kid to get a miata, whats so good about them?? dude, go out and look for a used civic si, integra gsr, prelude, 300zx, 240sx, something alone those lines.. miatas are chick cars... :rolleyes:

why is everyone telling this kid to get a miata, whats so good about them?? dude, go out and look for a used civic si, integra gsr, prelude, 300zx, 240sx, something alone those lines.. miatas are chick cars...

The Miata handles better than any of those except for the 300ZX, and I don't think he can afford a 300ZX when you factor in gas mileage and insurance. So what if chicks drive it? That's no reason not to buy one, unless you're that sexually insecure about yourself, in which case I pity you anyways.

The Miata handles better than any of those except for the 300ZX, and I don't think he can afford a 300ZX when you factor in gas mileage and insurance. So what if chicks drive it? That's no reason not to buy one, unless you're that sexually insecure about yourself, in which case I pity you anyways.

Yup I'm sexually insecure about myself, how did you know? :rolleyes:

Why do you say he wouldnt be able to afford a 300ZX? You can easily find one for $8k-$10k in good condition. For insurance, if its put under his parents name it will be less $. Cant really do anything about gas because the prices go up all the time.

As far as the miata, the car is way underpowered for anything anyway. 142hp, 125tq. :thumbsdow. I would get something with alot more pep to it.

Why do you say he wouldnt be able to afford a 300ZX? You can easily find one for $8k-$10k in good condition. For insurance, if its put under his parents name it will be less $. Cant really do anything about gas because the prices go up all the time.

Yeah, and then if he gets in a wreck (which, with a 300ZX for a first car, is somewhat likely), he's screwed.

As far as the miata, the car is way underpowered for anything anyway. 142hp, 125tq. :thumbsdow. I would get something with alot more pep to it.

Well, it just depends what he wants to do with the car. As I said, the Miata is not a car for drag racing. It's a car for autocrossing and club racing.

Who gives a crap about racing in his case. This is his first car. He's young. He dosn't need to be wasting money on a High powered car like a 300zx. He's still in high school for crying out lould. I would go with the Miata, for the simple fact that it is a chick car. I guarantee the 16 year old with a miata gets laid before the 16 year old with a 300zx, and has enough money to do other stuff than buy gas. Practicality comes first especially on a low budget. He wouldn't be going wrong with any of the other 4 bangers though because although they are not fast or anything he would at least be able to beat the shit out of it for the next few years in college without worrying about it too much.

Who gives a crap about racing in his case. This is his first car. He's young. He dosn't need to be wasting money on a High powered car like a 300zx. He's still in high school for crying out lould.

Okay, I am still in high school too, and I know a kid with a '05 WRX STi and a kid with worked '93 Corvette in my school. Are high school kids not allowed to have fast cars? :rolleyes:

I would go with the Miata, for the simple fact that it is a chick car. I guarantee the 16 year old with a miata gets laid before the 16 year old with a 300zx, and has enough money to do other stuff than buy gas.

I disagree there. If I saw a young teen driving in a miata I'd think hes a bit :gay: gay, but thats me. I would buy a Civic Si before a Miata.

Look man, I'm only trying to help you. You're gonna eventually want something faster and sportier than a Miata. You're gonna get tired of the fact that the Mazda is underpowered and gonna end up selling it to upgrade to a faster/nicer car. I'm not strictly saying get a 300ZX, but something ALONG those lines, even like a '98-'99 Maxima would be nice. But hey, if you want the slow Miata, by all means go for it.

yeah kids in high school can have fast cars....its not about age and having a fast car...its about maturity and being able to know when and when not to use its power...........and for the miata, i see plenty of guys driving it, with chicks in the front seat, they're not gay, besides their are too many 16 year olds with Civics, yeah he might want something faster than a miata, but its a good way to start, the miata will out handle the civic any day, and will be alot more fun to drive than the plane ole honduh civic

I disagree there. If I saw a young teen driving in a miata I'd think hes a bit :gay: gay, but thats me. I would buy a Civic Si before a Miata.

If you'd really make a judgment about someone's sexual orientation based on what kind of car they drive, you're stupid beyond belief.

Look man, I'm only trying to help you. You're gonna eventually want something faster and sportier than a Miata. You're gonna get tired of the fact that the Mazda is underpowered and gonna end up selling it to upgrade to a faster/nicer car. I'm not strictly saying get a 300ZX, but something ALONG those lines, even like a '98-'99 Maxima would be nice. But hey, if you want the slow Miata, by all means go for it.

*sigh* What's so hard to understand? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't care about going fast in a straight-line. The Miata is plenty fast around the corners, much more so than any Honda shy of an Integra Type R.

Whatever man, this thread is getting stupid & pointless over a dumb little Miata. I'm done here. :rolleyes:

LUDE, I don't know where you get your information from, I was in highschool too. Your typical civics aren't exactly speed demons, nor do they exude masculinity (not to say that they are gay). I would say he would be just as well off in the performance department with a Miata. And you know maybe eventually he will want something faster, but then he can sell what ever he has and get something new. I am telling you though, if you go to the beach with a stock slow miata, you will pick up a girl twice as fast as if you had the most highly modified prelude on the planet. Trust me, my friend had a shitty convertible Lebaron, that thing picked up more chicks than I can count, and that thing sucked.

LUDE, I don't know where you get your information from, I was in highschool too. Your typical civics aren't exactly speed demons, nor do they exude masculinity (not to say that they are gay). I would say he would be just as well off in the performance department with a Miata. And you know maybe eventually he will want something faster, but then he can sell what ever he has and get something new. I am telling you though, if you go to the beach with a stock slow miata, you will pick up a girl twice as fast as if you had the most highly modified prelude on the planet. Trust me, my friend had a shitty convertible Lebaron, that thing picked up more chicks than I can count, and that thing sucked.

First off, I never said Civics are "speed demons." I simply said that I rather drive a Civic than a Miata any day.

Second off, If you need a certain kind of car to get pussy, then thats sad my friend. :rolleyes:

Who knows, maybe some girls would like a stock Miata over a hooked up Prelude, maybe some dont. All I know is even if I didnt have a car, I wouldnt need one to get ass.

Haha what are you saying here "true love is on the inside", come on man first impressions are everything. I agree you shouldn't need a car to get a chick, but the fact is that girls like convertibles and its an easy way to pick them up. You can sit around and make fun of it all day if you want to, but it won't change anything. If I was still in high school and I had a choice, I would go with the Miata. You may not have had to pick up chicks yet, your still in high school and have likely been with the same girl the whole time, or maybe your second, or maybe you don't have a girl period. You don't need nice clothes to pick up a girl either but you're a fool if you say it won't help.

I agree you shouldn't need a car to get a chick, but the fact is that girls like convertibles and its an easy way to pick them up.

So what are you saying, you'd go out and buy a convertible just because it will get you girls easier? Man thats pathetic. I will drive what I wanna drive, if a girl doesnt like it then fuck her. If the kid wants a Miata, then thats his choice. What I wanna drive isnt gonna revolve around whether its a magnet for girls.

You may not have had to pick up chicks yet, your still in high school and have likely been with the same girl the whole time, or maybe your second, or maybe you don't have a girl period. You don't need nice clothes to pick up a girl either but you're a fool if you say it won't help.

For your information, I've been with plenty girls in the past, and I currently am in a relationship with one right now. My girl didnt choose to be with me because of the kind of car I drive. Maybe you're right, maybe the Miata might help you to get a girl, but you shouldnt set your decision on that when buying a car.

Well anyway, this thread is getting boring and I'm not gonna keep arguing with you. Good luck booya.achieved on finding a car. Hope you make a good choice...

Agreed I am done

I want to know why the miata is a chick car and the civic coupe isn't. I see just as many chicks driving these as miatas. See alot of guys driving miatas. They look alright if they have new/larger wheels on them.

I honest to God see more older men (late 50's) driving Miatas than women of any age. Why? Because they remember the lightweight, European roadsters of their youth that the Miata so masterfully duplicates. It's a unique and visceral sports car with all kinds of heritage and a massive enthusiast following, and the mass majority of them aren't women. The whole "Miata chick car" myth is just a facade put forth by testosterone-driven, cheuvenistic assholes who feel the need to show off their manliness by driving a big car with lots of horsepower. It's archaic, stereotypical, all-American backwards mentality at its finest.

I actually like the new mazdaspeed car, but wouldn't buy one not because I am worried that people would think that I am gay but because the ribbing would get very old. Don't know if most people would realize that the mazdaspeed is even a miata. :lol2:

sorry guys, i didn't mean for you guys to argue. Also when disagreeing with another post and saying how miatas are chick cars, at least give reasons man. I am probably going to go out and start looking next week at miatas. Probably because of what kman said. hey lude, if you have to explain that you are in a relationship with a girl to excuse yourself for things you say maybe you should think deep and hard about your sexuality. yea this thread has gone from help from knowledgable people helping on the thread topic, to some guy who is unsure of his sexuality pleading that he is in a relationship with a WOMEN. lude man you need to think before you post

i dont think ive ever seen a woman driving a miata. its all older guys, autoxers, with a few gay guys thrown in for good measure (jk lol but its true)
buy a sentra with the 2.0 Liter SR20DE(91-93 SE-R, 95-01 SE
decent speed, VERY VERY reliable, low insurance, and the 95-up are even 4door to carry friends around in.

im not sure about the 240sx insurance for a 16yrold but i got my 1989 240sx when i was 20 and paid 110$ monthly for full coverage/$500 deductible

Some to consider:
Acura Integra GSR- Quick, reliable, and sporty
Honda Prelude- About the same as the Integra but a bit classier in my opinion
Mazda Miata- Looks like everybody else has summed it up
Nissan 240SX- RWD, not a huge fan of them personally, but a lot of people love them

I think only in america is the miata considered a chick car.(not by everyone) In Europe they're considered fun reliable sports cars.

But anyways a miata will kill you on insurance. I know i looked at them for me and I'm 20. something around 210 per month.

My 91 integra however is about 90 per month equal with a second gen RX-7. Just something to consider

i dont think ive ever seen a woman driving a miata. its all older guys, autoxers, with a few gay guys thrown in for good measure (jk lol but its true)
buy a sentra with the 2.0 Liter SR20DE(91-93 SE-R, 95-01 SE
decent speed, VERY VERY reliable, low insurance, and the 95-up are even 4door to carry friends around in.


Good suggestion on the Sentra SE-R, but your info is just a bit off. From '91 to '94, the Sentra SE-R was offered as a 2-door coupe only. From '95 to '98, the Sentra coupe was renamed to the 200SX, and thus it became the 200SX SE-R. Then, from '99 to '01, the Sentra coupe was dropped, and the new Sentra SE sedan was essentially the Sentra SE-R. Those three years ('99 through '01) were the only years that the Sentra SE-R was offered as a sedan. The '91 through '98 Sentra/200SX SE-R coupe are deadly reliable, but I have my doubts about the '99 through '01 Sentras, because in '99, they switched the Sentra over to a much cheaper and more localized plant, which inevitably led to drop in reliability.

sorry guys, i didn't mean for you guys to argue. Also when disagreeing with another post and saying how miatas are chick cars, at least give reasons man. I am probably going to go out and start looking next week at miatas. Probably because of what kman said. hey lude, if you have to explain that you are in a relationship with a girl to excuse yourself for things you say maybe you should think deep and hard about your sexuality. yea this thread has gone from help from knowledgable people helping on the thread topic, to some guy who is unsure of his sexuality pleading that he is in a relationship with a WOMEN. lude man you need to think before you post

Maybe if you read the last few posts by BlackGT2000 you would understand why I said that, you idiot. :rolleyes:

This thread is fuckin retarded anyway, go and buy a stupid miata 100 people said to anyway.

Its his first car, he is going to have fun with it no matter the drivetrain. I say he gets something safe, nice and economical before he considers power and drivetrain. FWD Honda/Toyota/Nissan's make pretty great first cars.

When he can make use of the rear wheels he can upgrade. Perhaps to a Miata, or a big masculine V8, or whatever sports car he fancies.

What should I get threads are pointless without a complete description of what the kid is looking for and what he intends to do with it. Most guys here wont even recommend a decent sports car unless the "16 year old driver" gives them some sign of Automotive knowhow.

1. These threads are pointless
2. Cars dont have a gender, no matter their color or stigma. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant, or sexist.
3. Age is no indication of experience.

Good suggestion on the Sentra SE-R, but your info is just a bit off. From '91 to '94, the Sentra SE-R was offered as a 2-door coupe only. From '95 to '98, the Sentra coupe was renamed to the 200SX, and thus it became the 200SX SE-R. Then, from '99 to '01, the Sentra coupe was dropped, and the new Sentra SE sedan was essentially the Sentra SE-R. Those three years ('99 through '01) were the only years that the Sentra SE-R was offered as a sedan. The '91 through '98 Sentra/200SX SE-R coupe are deadly reliable, but I have my doubts about the '99 through '01 Sentras, because in '99, they switched the Sentra over to a much cheaper and more localized plant, which inevitably led to drop in reliability.

actually the 95-99 sentra SE had the SR20DE and all were the same bodystyle as the 200sx but had 4 doors and diff taillights. the 99 model had limited edition badges and darker 5spoke wheels, and an optional blue color(which i had) and slightly different front end
the 00-01 sentra was the new style and the engine was good (broader torque curve because of the roller-rocker cams) but i had one with the sport suspension package and it had tons of bumpsteer and i personally didnt like driving it fast
i know i had a 99 sentra SE and it was an awesome car.

But anyways a miata will kill you on insurance. I know i looked at them for me and I'm 20. something around 210 per month.


$210 a month is nothing, dude. In fact, its so cheap. A friend of mine that drives a 96 Civic pays $580 a month for insurance. He has a PERFECT record, and drives about 10 miles a day. Also, its under his parent's name, he is only the secondary driver. You would be lucky if you found insurance for a car under $300 a month here.

actually the 95-99 sentra SE had the SR20DE and all were the same bodystyle as the 200sx but had 4 doors and diff taillights. the 99 model had limited edition badges and darker 5spoke wheels, and an optional blue color(which i had) and slightly different front end
the 00-01 sentra was the new style and the engine was good (broader torque curve because of the roller-rocker cams) but i had one with the sport suspension package and it had tons of bumpsteer and i personally didnt like driving it fast
i know i had a 99 sentra SE and it was an awesome car.

My bad, I see now that the Sentra got an SE version in '98, and wasn't redesigned until '00. But I don't think it had the SR20DE from '95 to '97; only the 200SX SE-R did in those years. Damnit Nissan, why couldn't you have just called the 200SX the Sentra coupe?

Quote: <HR SIZE=1>why is everyone telling this kid to get a miata, whats so good about them?? dude, go out and look for a used civic si, integra gsr, prelude, 300zx, 240sx, something alone those lines.. miatas are chick cars... <HR SIZE=1>The Miata handles better than any of those except for the 300ZX, and I don't think he can afford a 300ZX when you factor in gas mileage and insurance. So what if chicks drive it? That's no reason not to buy one, unless you're that sexually insecure about yourself, in which case I pity you anyways.
are you kidding me? the miata and 240sx are way better handlers than the boaty 300zx...probably the only worse handling car out of those mentioned is the prelude. where do you get this information from?

Go for an AE92 corolla; cheap, not bad looking, and kinda fast.:bigthumb:

are you kidding me? the miata and 240sx are way better handlers than the boaty 300zx...probably the only worse handling car out of those mentioned is the prelude. where do you get this information from?

If you're saying a Miata can handle better than a Prelude Type-SH (Sport Handling version) then you're an idiot my friend. :rolleyes:

If you're saying a Miata can handle better than a Prelude Type-SH (Sport Handling version) then you're an idiot my friend. :rolleyes:says 'ludespeed' with 2001 Honda Prelude in his sig. yes i am saying that, and im right... without going into too much detail...

light RWD > heavy FWD

']light RWD > heavy FWD
He's got you there.

looks like this thread has been smashed to death, but i need to say something. your first car should not be fast.
1) youre going to get tickets no matter what. having a fast car will not help
2) insurance
3) youre gonnna crash. you at a higher risk of crashing when you are driving fast.

i would love something that handles over a fast vehicle (for now anyway) which is why i have a civic. upgrade the suspension and it becomes a pretty good driving car.

The 300ZX handles better than the Miata. It may not be as nimble or as tossable, but it simply has a lot more grip to work with, and the chassis rigidity is far superior. You can't buy a $25,000 sports car and expect it to handle better than a $45,000 sports car, because all that extra money went into superior engineering and finer tuning.

']
are you kidding me? the miata and 240sx are way better handlers than the boaty 300zx...probably the only worse handling car out of those mentioned is the prelude. where do you get this information from?

yeah, the sporty economical car that nissan created for people to purchase for under $18k brand new, thats assuming your talking about the S14...handles better than their $50k Grand Touring Sports Car??? i dont think so...:nono:

BTW: an S14 240sx doesnt weigh much less than a 300zx...few hundred pounds. so if the 300zx is boaty, the 240sx isnt quite a dingy...

and like kman said, i have driven a miata or 2 and you can definitely toss around and and is great fun but it just doesnt have better handling characteristics as the 300zx.

I didn't know the 300ZX cost that much new. Hard to believe that nearly 10 years later the 350z is actually cheaper.

I didn't know the 300ZX cost that much new. Hard to believe that nearly 10 years later the 350z is actually cheaper.

i guess you get what you pay for...

haha The 350Z isn't that bad, they should definately offer forced induction though.

yeah, the sporty economical car that nissan created for people to purchase for under $18k brand new, thats assuming your talking about the S14...handles better than their $50k Grand Touring Sports Car??? i dont think so...:nono:
um i live in aust. and if you want a nissan GT, you buy a skyline which will outhandle a 300zx any day of the week. 300zx are very easy to get here and we dont understand why they are so hyped in america, they are not great cars in any particular area at all.... just because it cost more doesnt mean its better... and we dont have "240sx" we have silvia, 180sx, 200sx, the real models. and here is your weight differences, approx curb weights of all 3 cars.

miata - 2100lb (early) -> 2400lb (late)
240sx - 2500lb
300zx - 3300lb

1200lb difference between a early miata and a z32 TT 300zx. ha. a few hundred pounds my ass.

']um i live in aust. and if you want a nissan GT, you buy a skyline which will outhandle a 300zx any day of the week. 300zx are very easy to get here and we dont understand why they are so hyped in america, they are not great cars in any particular area at all.... just because it cost more doesnt mean its better... and we dont have "240sx" we have silvia, 180sx, 200sx, the real models. and here is your weight differences, approx curb weights of all 3 cars.

miata - 2100lb (early) -> 2400lb (late)
240sx - 2500lb
300zx - 3300lb

1200lb difference between a early miata and a z32 TT 300zx. ha. a few hundred pounds my ass.

first of all i said a few hundred pound difference between the S14 and 300zx. the S13 and 300zx shouldnt even be put in the same sentence...last time i checked the S14 weighed in at 2800-3000lbs. 300zx weigh in at 3200-3300.

and your right price doesnt mean its always better, but it usually means better engineering...especially in this case.

well the skyline is less of a GT car than a sports car that nissan made to be their top performer so it doesnt really surprise me that it puts up better numbers than the 300zx. what does surprise me is that with the RWD and more luxury tuned suspension the 300zx still seems to not be too for behind the equal age R32 GTR with AWD.

300zx arent hyped in america, that is the good thing about them...they were never placed in F&F...i have talked to a few austrailians myself that own a 300zxTT and they seem to very happy with it. so maybe it is just you having a bias against the 300zx, which i can respect, but i wouldnt say that the a nissan economical car is better. ever since the drift craze, people talk like the 240sx is a monster, they forget what the 240sx really is, not what it can be made into...i find it quite hysterical.

so the 300zxTT is not a great car in any area but what your saying is that the lesser 240sx is??? :eek7:

haha The 350Z isn't that bad, they should definately offer forced induction though.

oh i didnt mean it like that, i just meant that Nissan went back to their roots of the early Z cars and created an affordable sports car.

K3 I agree with you about the 300zx not being as hyped up, this is the reason I like it better than the skyline. Its a personal pet peve of mine to have cars compared to the skyline. In USA there is no skyline so why compare it? There is also no Silvia's with turbos so the 240 really isn't a contender with the 300zx. I can't picture an instance where i would have bought a 300 new but at the price they are now I could see myself in one possibly. Its a better package in my eyes than its contemporaries. In that price range and market I like it better than the rx7(reliability although I love it), Supra(outrageous price/rice apeal), Corvette(I wasn't the biggest C4 fan, the C5 is a different story).

I agree, I hate how overhyped the Skyline is. The 300ZX TT, or any Nissan Z car for that matter, will always get more respect in my eyes. I don't know how it is in other parts of the world, but here in America, the Skyline GT-R is the car that all the kids want to own, whereas the Z is much more popular with the older, more mature crowd. Is the 300ZX TT a superior performer when compared to the Skyline GT-R? No, but it's pretty close. It's also cheaper, more luxurious, and much easier to find (especially in America). The car has its merits, and you shouldn't shit on it just because Nissan just happens to make a better performing sports car.

I also find it funny that you crap on the 300ZX TT for being inferior to the Skyline GT-R, and then you proclaim that the Silvia is also better than the 300ZX TT. I don't know if you realize how biased that sounds, but any objective car enthusiast will tell you that you're full of shit. The Silvia is not even in the same class as the 300ZX TT. It's got less power, smaller brakes, smaller wheels and tires, a peakier torque curve, and a less bolstered chassis. The 300ZX TT accelerates faster and grips harder than the Silvia does. It's a sports car, as opposed to a sport compact, so if it didn't perform better, there'd be something terribly wrong. Again, the Silvia may have more enjoyable handling characteristics, and it's certainly easier to drive hard, but that doesn't make it faster. I'm not shitting on the Silvia, I'm just saying that you shouldn't claim that it performs better than a car that costs $20,000 more, and is just as dedicated to performance.

I also find it funny that you crap on the 300ZX TT for being inferior to the Skyline GT-R, and then you proclaim that the Silvia is also better than the 300ZX TT. I don't know if you realize how biased that sounds, but any objective car enthusiast will tell you that you're full of shit. The Silvia is not even in the same class as the 300ZX TT. It's got less power, smaller brakes, smaller wheels and tires, a peakier torque curve, and a less bolstered chassis. The 300ZX TT accelerates faster and grips harder than the Silvia does. It's a sports car, as opposed to a sport compact, so if it didn't perform better, there'd be something terribly wrong. Again, the Silvia may have more enjoyable handling characteristics, and it's certainly easier to drive hard, but that doesn't make it faster. I'm not shitting on the Silvia, I'm just saying that you shouldn't claim that it performs better than a car that costs $20,000 more, and is just as dedicated to performance.

thank you for your post...very well said. :)

did i say GTR? no.

']did i say GTR? no.

then what the hell are you talkign about??? the only skyline that will out handle a 300zxTT is the GTR...

thank you for your post...very well said.

I should hope that by now, you realize that when I make remarks against the 300ZX TT, it's not because I don't like the car. I just don't like heavy cars in general, and let's face it, the 300ZX TT is pretty heavy. But it's still a beautiful car, with plenty of performance and a rich history, and I'd certainly rather have it than any Silvia or Skyline.

I should hope that by now, you realize that when I make remarks against the 300ZX TT, it's not because I don't like the car. I just don't like heavy cars in general, and let's face it, the 300ZX TT is pretty heavy. But it's still a beautiful car, with plenty of performance and a rich history, and I'd certainly rather have it than any Silvia or Skyline.

i understand this...you know i respect your thought and opinions.

and it is a heavy car...but what it lacks in lightness, it makes up for in pure grunt and modability.

sometimes i get on here and feel i have to defend it because nobody else really does, it seems alot of people around the automotive world are misinformed about the car and think that beings it was NOT starred on F&F, it must not be a very good performer.

i understand this...you know i respect your thought and opinions.

and it is a heavy car...but what it lacks in lightness, it makes up for in pure grunt and modability.

sometimes i get on here and feel i have to defend it because nobody else really does, it seems alot of people around the automotive world are misinformed about the car and think that beings it was NOT starred on F&F, it must not be a very good performer.

All I can say is, thank God the 300ZX was never in The Fast and the Furious, or I wouldn't even be able to consider buying an N/A, much less a Twin Turbo. Not to mention that it would lose a lot of its credibility with everyone who hates the F&F craze.

the only skyline that will out handle a 300zxTT is the GTR...you make me laugh.

']you make me laugh.

ok...and why dont you explain your thoughts instead of making petty, ignorant comments??? i also get quite a nice, internal chuckle when i read your comments...

Wow, there have been quite a few ignorant statements in this thread, and it's a shame really.

Anyhow the only advise I would give you is whatever you do don't settle on the first thing you come across, test drive several cars and do some good research on the vehicles you're considering. Also, with you being young I would (as I always do) advise you to get something that isn't very fast, insurance is very expensive, and you should really get plenty (read: years) of experience behind the wheel before jumping into a high performance vehicle. That doesn't mean you can't have a sporty car, or something that is fun to drive though, so take these things into consideration if you would.

you make me laugh.

Okay, now I'm completely sure that you're biased. If you expect a $35,000 luxury car (non-GTR Skyline) to outhandle a $50,000 sports car (300ZX Twin Turbo), you've got your facts very, very mixed up.

well.... the R34 2.5GT Skyline isn't exactly a slouch....

I don't think that the Skyline matters much to anyone who lives in USA. Its really a pointless argument. Over here if you wanted nissan in the 90's you had the 300 or the 240. The 300 would kill the 240 in every category. I can't speak for Japan I don't live there or plan to. I don't think that anyone has the right to shit on a 300zx in its day it would match or beat anything in its class, even the famed supra. To tell me that theres a better car than it in Japan really doesn't mean anything the skyline may as well be on another planet to me, its not really a contender. I personally like the way the 300zx looked better than the skyline anyway. From the back a skyline looks like a damn chevy impala with those lights.

well.... the R34 2.5GT Skyline isn't exactly a slouch....

yeah, but it wouldnt really be fair to pin a 15 year old designed car against a 5 year old designed car. and i bet the Z32TT will hold its own against it reguardless. but i am with you there, the R34 lesser GTR would be the only non GTR to compete against the Z32TT. but i feel if your gonna compare the 2 cars, you might as well compare ones of the same year. i even through in the R33 because in Japan the Z32 carried on until 99...

i think its just funny that the R32 GTR with its AWD underrated 280ps(around there somewhere) only beats the 278ps Z32TT 2+2(which is heavier) by a considerably small margin and this kid thinks that the 210hp R32 non AWD GTR is going to keep up with it...

yeah, but it wouldnt really be fair to pin a 15 year old designed car against a 5 year old designed car. and i bet the Z32TT will hold its own against it reguardless. but i am with you there, the R34 lesser GTR would be the only non GTR to compete against the Z32TT. but i feel if your gonna compare the 2 cars, you might as well compare ones of the same year. i even through in the R33 because in Japan the Z32 carried on until 99...

I don't even think the R34 2.5GT would be able to take down the 300ZX TT, but it'd be very close. And the fact that the 300ZX is about ten years older really shows which one is the winner.

If you expect a $35,000 luxury car (non-GTR Skyline) to outhandle a $50,000 sports car (300ZX Twin Turbo), you've got your facts very, very mixed up.
LUXURY CAR? are you kidding me?

Just some info on pricing:

90 NA listed at $27,500 (R&Ts "Guide to the New Z")

90 TT listed at $33,000 (R&T March 90, titled "Import car of the year")

91 NA 2+2 listed at $31,250 (R&T June 91)

91 TT listed at $33,000 (R&T January 92 "Long term wrap up")

92 TT listed at $36,000 (R&T April 92)

95 TT listed at $42,000 (R&T July & August 95)

96 Conv listed at $45,000 (Edmunds.com RoadTest)

I guess the 90s were worse than I thought inflation wise.

Anyway...just FYI

*heads back out to the garage*

whoa..... i was just offering a non GT-R skyline that has a similar price and similar spec to the ZX. i seem to recall that there was a similar R33.

anyway.
y'know, i never knew that the U.S never got the skyline, which is why i am now very confused about all of them kids who go on about it when they've never even seen one, let alone driven one....

Exactly now you see my point, overseas I could see comparing it, but in USA? The only reason I dog on it is because of the rice appeal that its gotten over here. I know its a good car.

y'know, i never knew that the U.S never got the skyline

Yeah we kinda got the shaft on that one.

which is why i am now very confused about all of them kids who go on about it when they've never even seen one, let alone driven one....

Because they are idiots.

Anyway, do you happen to have one of those nice Euro spec 190mph 300ZX TT speedometers sitting around?

http://img173.echo.cx/img173/7356/sawindash0dd6jt.jpg


Even though I could still top that one out too. :cool:

From the back a skyline looks like a damn chevy impala with those lights.

your opinion, but the impala looks like a skyline, not the other way around
the only real popular car to predate the skyline with the double circle tails is the corvette, and that was only by a couple years

i think an R32 gts-t has the same handling potential as a z32, because it IIRC has the same suspension(does the various GTS models have hicas? i think so), the z would stomp it because of its HP dominance though.
the only thing is that the R32 GTS is 300lbs or so lighter than a z, but the z's 75+ extra hp more than makes up for it


the R34 GTR would generally beat the z32 in almost all categories, but then again it is a 10 yr newer car with 10 yr newer technology. the z32 and the R32 GTR were pretty even back in the day, just the GTR was a little faster because it had more technology put into it just to make the big luxury car compete well.

Thats true the Impala came out with those lights afterward, but they do still look very much alike.

the z32 and the R32 GTR were pretty even back in the day, just the GTR was a little faster because it had more technology put into it just to make the big luxury car compete well.

the R32 GTR didnt have exactly more technology...just had the ATTESA AWD system which helped it track a little better than the Z32TT. people forget that the Z32TT and R32-GTR have most of the same control systems and suspension set-up. this is why i find it funny that people talk about the GTR like it is the greatest car ever and then downplay the Z32...slap an AWD system on a 300zxTT and you got yourself a rather good looking GTR.


http://img173.echo.cx/img173/7356/sawindash0dd6jt.jpg


Even though I could still top that one out too. :cool:

and if you could, find 2...:D

LUXURY CAR? are you kidding me?

Um...yes. I don't know where you got the impression that the Skyline series is Nissan's ultimate racing series, but that's wrong; only the red GT-R badge signifies Nissan's designated racing marquee. The non-GTR Skylines are designed, tuned, and marketed to be luxury cars, with a hint of sportiness. Without all of the superb racing technology that goes into the GT-R, the Skyline is just a big sedan or coupe with rear-wheel-drive and above-average horsepower. The Fairlady Z, on the other hand, has always been Nissan's flagship sports car, and the fact that the Skyline GT-R is a better performer than Fairlady Z, doesn't necessarily make it a better sports car. Sports cars are about more than raw performance; they're about the feel, the image, the intangible aspects of driving. In my opinion, the Fairlady Z's shape, styling cues, choice of motor, and handling characteristics, should make it a more enjoyable car to drive than the Skyline GT-R, even though it's not quite as fast. I've never driven either, but I'm just venturing a guess based on what I do know about them.

It's actually kind of funny that there is so much argument between the two cars because they were both sourced from the same prototype, the MID-4.

It utilized the same AWD system later found in the GT-Rs as well as the HICAS system found in both the Skylines and the Zs. It sported a 330hp VG30DETT set in a mid-engine configuration.

Naturally the Skyline and Z were developed as seperate entities with unique chassis and such, but they do share much of the same design in suspension, powertrain setup (less the AWD on the Z) as well as general design strategy. Nissan had dumped an ass load of money into the MID-4 for use as a test bed for systems that would define their cars in the 90s and made use of this technology in many of their cars.

Wow! This thread kind of took a direction all of its own, didn't it?

Not sure what to think about the Skyline vs. 300zx argument. I'd just have to drive each one and see which I like better. Doubt I'll ever get the chance to do that, though. Even if we had the Skyline here in the states, it would be a bit out his budget anyway.

As for the first car deal, I know in my own case, a 300zx would not have been an option at 16, regardless of whether it was an na or turbo. I have an na now, and insurance is still a beeotch. (I just turned 24.) If you can stretch to one, though, I think it is a pretty good all around performer. Lower mileage models dating from 93 and later still bring pretty strong prices, though. Furthermore, if I had my car when I was sixteen, I do think there is a very distinct possibility I would have piled it up in no time. (And I promise I'm not a horrible driver.)

If it was ME, I would consider some of the following personal favorites:

240sx (Great rwd car to learn on that you could keep and turn into a serious project car one day down the road, if you are so inclined.)

Prelude (Pretty good perfomance numbers with the fwd understeer dynamics safety net. My first car was an early 90's model, and I was very happy with it. The last generation car was probably one of the most neutral handling fwd cars ever produced. Despite rumors from the rice world, though, these cars are not autocross monsters. I've never really seen one spit out great numbers. They still do okay, though.)

Miata (Yes, this car was debated earlier, but it is still a good machine. And yes, this car CAN handle! Especially on a tight course. This car IS an autocross demon. I know someone mentioned earlier that there was no way a Miata can outhandle an SH Prelude, but you don't have to spend long on the grass roots level racing scene to see that the Miata performs on a higher level. I know "Car and Driver" voted the Prelude best handling car under 30k at one time, but theory and application just don't match up in this case. A well set up Miata can kill my NA Z on the autocross course. I only stand a chance if the course if bigger with alot of higher speed sweepers and acceleration spots.)

MR2 (A great car in NA or Turbo form. Insurance is VERY reasonable on the na, but a little stiff on the turbo. This is a car that can really bite you in the ass if it is not driven well, though.)

Civic SI (Really just alot like a lighter Prelude with a tad less motor to play with. It's getting hard to find one that the thuggy kids have not ruined, though.)

Porshe 944 (Alot like an na Z, but even more expensive to work on. You'd have to get a pretty old one to fit in your price range. Is ALOT fun to drive, though.)

Golf GTI (If you could afford to stretch just a little, you might find a 1.8turbo Gti. The stock suspension is kind of soft, but it is a nice all rounder, can be made (very) mean, and the motor is great.)

Just my thoughts...

Wahey, we're finally back on-topic! Good post, MclarenF1. Those are just about all of the cars I'd recommend. I can speak from personal experience, actually, because I'm looking at buying a car to replace my boring old Camry by the end of the summer. I'm 18, with just about three years of real driving experience, but I'm still a little scared of getting a 300ZX, even the N/A, and ditto for any Porsche. I don't want a Honda, because they are just way too common around here, but if you don't mind that, the '92-'95 Civic is an excellent choice. Ditto for the 240SX, I actually see way more of those than Hondas at the car meets I usually go to. But again, the '89-'94 240SX is a great car to learn on that fits right into your price range. Right now, my top three contenders are the '90-'97 Miata (1.6 or 1.8), '91-'95 MR2 (N/A only), and '93-'01 Impreza (if I can ever find one in decent shape, they are super-rare around here). But there are a lot of cars that could work for you.

Um...yes. I don't know where you got the impression that the Skyline series is Nissan's ultimate racing series, but that's wrong; only the red GT-R badge signifies Nissan's designated racing marquee. The non-GTR Skylines are designed, tuned, and marketed to be luxury cars, with a hint of sportiness. Without all of the superb racing technology that goes into the GT-R, the Skyline is just a big sedan or coupe with rear-wheel-drive and above-average horsepower. The Fairlady Z, on the other hand, has always been Nissan's flagship sports car, and the fact that the Skyline GT-R is a better performer than Fairlady Z, doesn't necessarily make it a better sports car. Sports cars are about more than raw performance; they're about the feel, the image, the intangible aspects of driving. In my opinion, the Fairlady Z's shape, styling cues, choice of motor, and handling characteristics, should make it a more enjoyable car to drive than the Skyline GT-R, even though it's not quite as fast. I've never driven either, but I'm just venturing a guess based on what I do know about them.
It's being kind to call a Skyline a luxury car, they're cramped as hell and not very comfortable, certainly not a sports car, either if it's not a GTR.

Yes the 300ZX handles better than the R32 Skyline GTS-t, it is far less tail happy, due to better weight distribution, it's also more aerodynamic. The Skyline handling got sorted by the time it got to the R34, too bad the R34 is just about the ugliest thing out.

BMWs are pretty cramped and tightly sprung as well, but they are still considered luxury cars...so I don't see what the difference is. The non-GTR Skylines use good quality interior materials, have complient yet communicative suspensions, and have a respectable amount of passenger and cargo space. They're certainly a lot more luxurious than any 300ZX.

They're certainly a lot more luxurious than any 300ZX.

My ride has power leather seats, power everything else, seude panels, computer controlled environmental system...I would have tried to argue that point but...meh...never been in a Skyline.

EDIT: Since I feel I must pay at least a little bit of attention to the topic, just out of 3 years of personal experience I can say the 240sx is probably one of the best starter cars on the market. Good inital power on the brakes, nimble if soft suspension, enough power under the hood to have some fun but not really enough to hurt you. Stylish to boot.

BMWs are pretty cramped and tightly sprung as well, but they are still considered luxury cars...so I don't see what the difference is. The non-GTR Skylines use good quality interior materials, have complient yet communicative suspensions, and have a respectable amount of passenger and cargo space. They're certainly a lot more luxurious than any 300ZX.

You have driven them right? The R34's are relatively spacious, Jonah Lomu certainly had little trouble getting into his GTR, but the 32's and 33's I could not drive comfortably, though I'm 6'5, so that was part of the problem. I've never met anyone over 5'9 who's been able to get comfortable in an R32 or R33 to the degree that I can in my 330, or even an E36 for that matter. Nor are the plastics in a Skyline very special, I've seen better interior quality in a much cheaper Honda Accord and as with most JDM cars, lacks a leather interior, the seats instead being made from tacky feeling cloth.

I still like to think of a 3 series as more of a sports sedan if it's a 6 cylinder and econobox if it's a 4 cylinder, the 5 series is a luxury car, as is the 7 series. The Skyline tried to take a swing at the 3 series by doing the same thing and ended up as neither sporty nor luxurious, the Toyota Altezza is sort of a demonstration of what the Skyline was trying to do. It took Nissan until the V35 to finally get everything so right.

I can't say that I've driven an R32, but it certainly doesn't look very small to me. I'll take your word for it, though.

looks can be decieving, the amount of space on offer is about the same as an S13 240SX.

I have no problem fitting into my friend's S13, but you're right, that's not luxury car spaciousness.

Since I feel I must pay at least a little bit of attention to the topic, just out of 3 years of personal experience I can say the 240sx is probably one of the best starter cars on the market. Good inital power on the brakes, nimble if soft suspension, enough power under the hood to have some fun but not really enough to hurt you. Stylish to boot.

:iagree:

not TOO much power so the insurance wont go through the roof :bigthumb:

oh yeah, the title of this thread was "suggestion for first car"...

so how did we get comparing GTR's to Z32TT's??? :lol:

anyways, for a first car a 240sx is a good choice...it can be beneficial to you learning how to drive a RWD car and how it reacts to different variables. and like broke as **** said, it has ok power but not big enough power to hurt you unless your blind and cant see a turn coming from 3 blocks ahead.

i find the early mid 90's preludes good first cars too...

']um i live in aust. and if you want a nissan GT, you buy a skyline which will outhandle a 300zx any day of the week. 300zx are very easy to get here and we dont understand why they are so hyped in america, they are not great cars in any particular area at all.... just because it cost more doesnt mean its better... and we dont have "240sx" we have silvia, 180sx, 200sx, the real models. and here is your weight differences, approx curb weights of all 3 cars.

miata - 2100lb (early) -> 2400lb (late)
240sx - 2500lb
300zx - 3300lb

1200lb difference between a early miata and a z32 TT 300zx. ha. a few hundred pounds my ass.

this is how the GT-R thing started.

aaaaanyway.
if i was going for a first car, i would go for something small and more or less hassle free. i would find it hard to say no to an Integra Type-R (assuming you can get them where you are).
other cars around the same price range would be a focus ST170 (you never got the Puma so this is the ford pick... although i think you have differently set-up versions of this car to us), Golf V5 (the Gti is probably the better car but i just prefer this engine), Alfa 147 or even the newer Civic Type-R.
if it has to be rear drive there's no reason not to look at a smaller engined 3 series (and seeing as you're in the U.S, the old left hand M3 is going to be no problem)
talking of older cars brings to mind the fiat coupe turbo which is a cracking drive that had me smilling all the way to the tyre shop....
if you're looking to an old miata/MX-5 then you shouldn't over look the newer MR-2/S. it's still going to be a bit pricey and a bit girly but it is a sharp handler (not to mention mid-engined) although it'll lack the outright pace of other cars mentioned.

Um...yes. I don't know where you got the impression that the Skyline series is Nissan's ultimate racing series, but that's wrong; only the red GT-R badge signifies Nissan's designated racing marquee. The non-GTR Skylines are designed, tuned, and marketed to be luxury cars, with a hint of sportiness. Without all of the superb racing technology that goes into the GT-R, the Skyline is just a big sedan or coupe with rear-wheel-drive and above-average horsepower. The Fairlady Z, on the other hand, has always been Nissan's flagship sports car, and the fact that the Skyline GT-R is a better performer than Fairlady Z, doesn't necessarily make it a better sports car. Sports cars are about more than raw performance; they're about the feel, the image, the intangible aspects of driving. In my opinion, the Fairlady Z's shape, styling cues, choice of motor, and handling characteristics, should make it a more enjoyable car to drive than the Skyline GT-R, even though it's not quite as fast. I've never driven either, but I'm just venturing a guess based on what I do know about them.

sorry need to hijack this thing once again.

skyline both GT-R and non has always been nissan's flagship sportcar.
Orginal Skyline GT-R in 1969 was created for one reason only. to kill all european from JGTC, which it did.

the S20 engine from the R380 race car was put into the GT-R long before it reach Z432 in 1973, and as far as i know (plz correct me if this info is wrong) Fairladyz never went racing in JGTC until Z33.

I know the orginal skyline (non GT-R) was ment to be lux car and it was in the 50's and 60, (nice interior with walnut steering wheel wow~)

I personally don't think skyline is lux car, for me lux small car in the 90's don't exist. E30, E190 and AE92 has around the same comfort.

and as Skyline not being as lux as E30...plz don't tell me u consider E30 to be a lux car.....it small very very small...(and we are comparing R32 and E30 rite?around same production years R32 from 1989~1993, and E30 sorry don't know when it start not expert but i know it end at around 92) even the E36 is till small especailly the back sit. and as for the lux item...i don't see no digtal air con...the interior have black plastic panel on black leagther seat (personal i am thinking that is probably PVC)

PS:240Z&300ZX are great car, i just have to do a bit of information correcting, since the other guy don't know what he is talking about for skyline

sorry need to hijack this thing once again.

skyline both GT-R and non has always been nissan's flagship sportcar.
Orginal Skyline GT-R in 1969 was created for one reason only. to kill all european from JGTC, which it did.

the S20 engine from the R380 race car was put into the GT-R long before it reach Z432 in 1973, and as far as i know (plz correct me if this info is wrong) Fairladyz never went racing in JGTC until Z33.

I know the orginal skyline (non GT-R) was ment to be lux car and it was in the 50's and 60, (nice interior with walnut steering wheel wow~)

I personally don't think skyline is lux car, for me lux small car in the 90's don't exist. E30, E190 and AE92 has around the same comfort.

and as Skyline not being as lux as E30...plz don't tell me u consider E30 to be a lux car.....it small very very small...(and we are comparing R32 and E30 rite?around same production years R32 from 1989~1993, and E30 sorry don't know when it start not expert but i know it end at around 92) even the E36 is till small especailly the back sit. and as for the lux item...i don't see no digtal air con...the interior have black plastic panel on black leagther seat (personal i am thinking that is probably PVC)

PS:240Z&300ZX are great car, i just have to do a bit of information correcting, since the other guy don't know what he is talking about for skyline

First of all, thanks for sharing your point of view without flaming.

Secondly, I can see where you would get the idea that the Skyline was designed to be Nissan's sports car, but I'm gonna have to disagree. What a sports car really is is much more than what it can do at the track. Though the GT-R is Nissan's flagship performance car, it's not Nissan's flagship sports car.

As for the BMW E30, I didn't mean that it was a luxury car in the sense that it was actually luxurious, but when people see the BMW badge, that's the impression that they get. "Prestigious" would have been a better word. And that's the case with the Skyline. It's always been a notch above Nissan's other non-sports car models in terms of engineering, so it has that image of prestige among Japanese car enthusiasts.

First of all, thanks for sharing your point of view without flaming.

Secondly, I can see where you would get the idea that the Skyline was designed to be Nissan's sports car, but I'm gonna have to disagree. What a sports car really is is much more than what it can do at the track. Though the GT-R is Nissan's flagship performance car, it's not Nissan's flagship sports car.

As for the BMW E30, I didn't mean that it was a luxury car in the sense that it was actually luxurious, but when people see the BMW badge, that's the impression that they get. "Prestigious" would have been a better word. And that's the case with the Skyline. It's always been a notch above Nissan's other non-sports car models in terms of engineering, so it has that image of prestige among Japanese car enthusiasts.

Thanks you for urs too :)

As for the E30 it just happen that i was quoting from you but that was actually trying to answer Jim's argument.

and as far as i know (plz correct me if this info is wrong) Fairladyz never went racing in JGTC until Z33.


i have read that this is the 300zx car that took the IMSA GTS championship but i think it is the same car that was entered into JGTC in 1994. im not positive though...i couldnt find any factual information.
http://www.johnnyoconnell.com/images/previous/300zx_04.jpg

The only valuable information i know and have read is that the 300zx competed in the LeMans races and did extremely well almost every year it was entered...even winning a couple times i believe.