Tranny fluid with oil? How much?


Ramblin Fever
06-05-2005, 10:30 AM
I'm getting conflicting answers when I research the idea of adding tranny fluid to the oil.

Don't know why I've developed a tick of sorts; have always changed oil every 3K and used 10W-30 Havoline.

Would not say it's loud at all, can't hear it inside the truck. But if I'm sitting next to a brick wall and it's running, I can hear it echo. Again, not loud, just mild, but it's there and I don't like it.

Yesterday, before I decided to dump the oil (which only had 1,300 miles), I dropped a quart and added a quart of Dextron III, then ran it up and down the neighborhood for 10 minutes or so, hitting 3-4K RPM's at least 3 times. Brought it home and let it idle for 5-10 minutes.

I then dropped oil and filter and put on a fresh Isuzu filter with 10w-30 Havoline (now SM/GF4 rating). I did not add any transmission fluid upon refill - however it now ticks a tad louder.

WHY?

Got some questions -

Is it safe to add 1/2 qt or 1 qt of tranny fluid to 10W-30 Dino oil and run it for 2-3K miles or will it thin out the oil too much?

Our outside summer temps range from 50-100 degrees, but I run the I-70 mountainous corridor in Colorado rockies a LOT. And I want to make sure the oil remains lubricating enough not to cause other issues.

The tick/tap is also more appearant through the front passanger wheel well.

I'd say it's louder at start up, then quiets down, but doesn't go away.

FWIW, Timing belt, tensioner, water pump were replaced at 60K miles, I now have 139,500 miles.

Another question that I'm sure is hard to answer, but this ticking, does it shorten the life of the engine?

df2000
06-05-2005, 12:35 PM
ATF as cleaning agent old staff, it MAY BE worked at 50s.
Look at VOA of dexron on OILGUY site, nothing in ATF will clean engine.
" run the I-70 mountainous corridor in Colorado rockies a LOT" with lower
viscosity and desolve antiwear package in motor oil NOT a good idea.
Want spend some money try Auto-RX...
Or just keep changing oil 3k-5k mi.

anthonyn
06-05-2005, 02:54 PM
I'm getting conflicting answers when I research the idea of adding tranny fluid to the oil.
Got some questions -

Is it safe to add 1/2 qt or 1 qt of tranny fluid to 10W-30 Dino oil and run it for 2-3K miles or will it thin out the oil too much?

Our outside summer temps range from 50-100 degrees, but I run the I-70 mountainous corridor in Colorado rockies a LOT. And I want to make sure the oil remains lubricating enough not to cause other issues.

The tick/tap is also more appearant through the front passanger wheel well.

I'd say it's louder at start up, then quiets down, but doesn't go away.

FWIW, Timing belt, tensioner, water pump were replaced at 60K miles, I now have 139,500 miles.

Another question that I'm sure is hard to answer, but this ticking, does it shorten the life of the engine?

1. I don't believe in diluting the oil with any substance and driving the vehicle. The most I'll do is to idle the car for 5 or 10 minutes. Anything added to the oil can potentially change the oil's properties, including viscosity and shear strength.

2. Try going with a thinner oil for one oil change, like a 0w or 5w oil that has good detergents. Also consider diesel oils like chevron delo or shell rotella since they have excellent detergent packs and are rated for gas vehicles.

3. Oil filter makes a big difference in the ticking especially at startup. Before I knew better, I used fram oil filters and the ticking was horrendous. Try purolator pure one's or wix(napa gold). They work best for my rodeo.

4. I have never heard of the ticking causing any damage to the engine or reduce engine life. The lifters are just getting batted around a bit.

5. I love the havoline oil's by the way.

Ramblin Fever
06-05-2005, 04:50 PM
Can't seem to find diesel oil thin enough, all I can find is 15W-40 or so.

I'm not fond of synthetics, have never used a thicker weight oil in this truck, don't think I want to.

Believe me I was not too thrilled about what I did yesterday, and I choose not to do that on a daily basis.

I would just like to know why I have the "tick", this truck has been meticuliously maintained, and I am the original owner.

Ramblin Fever
06-06-2005, 10:05 AM
Bump

rodeo02
06-06-2005, 03:08 PM
ATF as cleaning agent old staff, it MAY BE worked at 50s.
Look at VOA of dexron on OILGUY site, nothing in ATF will clean engine.


Amen to that! Look at any data out their on ATF's They are nothing more than a 20wt motor oil, with red dye and OEM specific adds & friction modifiers. They will do nothing but thin your oil, just like you could do by adding a quart of off the shelf 5w-20. ATF's of the 1950-1960 were made with whale oil that had excellent natural cleaning properties. That's where the old wives tale came from.
G/luck
Joel

Ramblin Fever
06-07-2005, 12:33 AM
So all of these threads in this Rodeo forum about adding tranny fluid to your oil to help clean the hydralic lifters is all a bunch of poky??

If that's the case, they need to be deleted so people won't be mislead into believing that adding 1/2 qt of tranny fluid to the crank case along with oil will help the "tick".

Just about every newer and older thread about the "tick" has responses, a few even from an Isuzu tech (I believe) saying how adding tranny fluid will eventually assist in eliminating the tick.

I'm not trying to be nasty by any means, and I know you are supposed to take what you hear off the internet with a grain of salt, but I spent a lot of time yesterday researching every thread on this board about the tick, paying particular attention to those that stated they'd worked on vehicles and/or Isuzu's in general. And I've been on this board long enough to feel I can trust some of these answers, and I don't want others to believe that adding tranny fluid will do the same thing.

Thank you for a fresh clear answer, I will never do that again, and I only hope I didn't do anything to worsen the condition.

I should've went with my gut feeling, as I've heard to NEVER, under any condition, add anything to your oil. Won't happen again.

Thank you for the answer.

rodeo02
06-07-2005, 08:50 AM
So all of these threads in this Rodeo forum about adding tranny fluid to your oil to help clean the hydralic lifters is all a bunch of poky??....

Ramblin- You wont hurt a thing by adding a qt or two to your sump, but it wont do anything magical. All it does is make the oil easier to flow through small passages, which is why it works for some people. The thinner oil will get passed the partially clogged lifter orifices, allow them to 'pump up' and reduce the tick noise. Even though 5w-30 & 10w-30 both 30wt's at operating temps, I think I'd still run a 5w-30 in the 1993-1997 3.2L My 2002 3.2 with the direct attack valve actuation is inherently noisey as well. Kind of a rythmic sewing machine noise. I've tried just about the entire viscosity range the manual suggests. 15w-40 to 5w-30. I've gone 'out of the box' now & run 5w-20 and napa/carquest filters. I first tried the 5w-20 almost a year ago (had it on hand already for my ford) and the 'zu runs super smooth & quiet on this. Wisper quiet idle, No increased consuption, oil loss, etc, maybe a fraction of a MPG better on fuel consuption. Still horrible though.. like 17-18mpg max. Try a mix of 5w-30 and 5w-20 in yours, see if it helps.
G/luck
Joel

Ramblin Fever
06-07-2005, 10:56 AM
I know they say not to change brands; but are there any diesel oils you recommend?

I must admit, the actual ticking "sound" doesn't bother me, what does bother me is knowing that it's actually there.

I've heard diesel oils are very high in detergents, that's the only reason I'm asking if you know of any "you" would actually use.

I will definitely take your advise on the 5w-30; but, one question, since the numbers are such a wide range, i.e. a 5W-30 versus a 10W-30 isn't there a concern with viscosity break-down?

I have no problems running a 5w-30 in the winter, but I'm leary of viscosity break-down running it in the summer with towing, highway driving, etc.

Thank you for defining the tranny fluid theory.

rodeo02
06-07-2005, 11:35 AM
5w-30 will typically have more viscosity improvers over a 10w-30, but today's SL & SM 5w-30's hold up pretty well. All oils 'age' the same way in an automotive sump. 1) Shear down/thin out. 2) The lighter more volitile components of the oil boil off/evaporate. 3) Oil starts to thicken, eventually turns to a nasy tar-like goo. This would take a long time with today's oil, probably like 10,000+ miles on $0.99/qt SL/SM oil in an average auto. Walmart carries a lot of diesel oils like chevron delo, shell and super-tech in various viscosity ranges in gallon jugs. These are great HD oils, but I'm not sure their thicker nature will help your hydraulic valvetrain any. Oh and as far as changing oil brands? I personally think that's a bunch of hooey. You get a slightly different batch everytime you buy a quart of any brand oil.
G/luck
Joel

suvguy
06-07-2005, 07:47 PM
SNIP.... All oils 'age' the same way in an automotive sump. 1) Shear down/thin out. 2) The lighter more volitile components of the oil boil off/evaporate. 3) Oil starts to thicken, eventually turns to a nasy tar-like goo. This would take a long time with today's oil, probably like 10,000+ miles on $0.99/qt SL/SM oil in an average auto.....SNIP.....Oh and as far as changing oil brands? I personally think that's a bunch of hooey. You get a slightly different batch everytime you buy a quart of any brand oil.
G/luck
Joel


Not a totally accurate statement. While oils do age (degrade) when in a working engine, they all do so at different rates depending on the number, percentage, and type of base stocks in the blend for a given product as well as the type, quantity and quality of the additive package used. Different brand oils use different addtive packages. Switching from one brand to the other will introduce a problem due to the clashing of the addtive packages if the second oil used a different package. This can lead to reactions that will degrade the oil or reduce it's pretection properties. Could also lead to thickening of the oil or increase of deposits. Interesting article I had saved on matter: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=235&relatedbookgroup=Lubrication

This could turn into a lengthy discussion. I recommend taking a look around the forums of www.bobistheoilguy.com and grab a tasty beverage as there is a wealth of info available in one place.

suvguy

rodeo02
06-07-2005, 11:19 PM
...... Switching from one brand to the other will introduce a problem due to the clashing of the addtive packages if the second oil used a different package. This can lead to reactions that will degrade the oil or reduce it's pretection properties. Could also lead to thickening of the oil or increase of deposits.
suvguy

There is merit in all of that, but it's a non-issue for a 3000-5000 mile oil change interval. Have you ever heard of anyone who had an engine crater due to additive clash of the oil from switching brands? Not gonna happen. You get a slightly different add pack every time you change your oil. There's no 'FDA' type contraints on motor oil that force every batch to be exactly the same all the time. The fella's over at BITOG (yep, I've been a member for a few years) mill this stuff over all the time.
G/luck
Joel

Ramblin Fever
06-08-2005, 09:31 AM
Oh yeah, that oil gets dumped every 3K for sure; not too worried about what "could" happen on an extended drain interval - it'll never happen.

Thank you for the insight, I've just recently been doing a lot of looking on the Bob's the oil guy site myself - lots of information.

Basically I'm guessing the Havoline is about the best dino I can get?

And basically what you're saying is there's no need to find an oil with higher detergents?

You may have said, RodeoO2, but what oil are you running?

rodeo02
06-08-2005, 11:06 AM
...You may have said, RodeoO2, but what oil are you running?

Don't have a lot of wiggle room in the 'ol pocket book lately. I've been running down to the local carquest lately and using their oil and filters. Their oils are an ashland/valvoline product (which BITOG doesnt care for :uhoh: ), Oh.. and I've been using fuel power occasionally in the gas and lube control in the oil. FP and LC are another BITOG endorced product. I've been using them for a couple years. My engines 'look' spotless thru the oil fillers & I've never had a fuel related concern so I couldn't tell you if they work or not :confused: . My usual oil change interval is around 4000mi.
G/luck
Joel

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