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Warplane and Curious George


grantrl78
05-18-2005, 12:07 AM
Wanted to be a fighter pilot.
Then realized that I was a wimp :)
I do still love jets tho.
That one is all engines. :naughty:
Looks kind of like a zonda.

The picture of george was done with prismacolor black. ??? - hours



http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/323461george1.jpg

knightvision
05-18-2005, 04:22 AM
#1: WOW - Looks amazing!

#2: LOL!

asaenz
05-18-2005, 05:38 AM
I love the jet.
The toon is funny.

I like the F15E version because of the wide fuel tanks that are part of the frame, make the jet look aggressive.

My favorite fighter is the F14 and my 2nd fav is the Mig 29.

al

HighOctaneNOSUser
05-18-2005, 07:28 AM
Awsome work man as usual man!

But oh how I despise the F-15 lol. SU-27 all the way;)

grantrl78
05-18-2005, 07:40 AM
Thanks guys!!!
My fave russian jet is the mig-31.
It is VERY fast and a badass like the mig-25 with a killer weapons system.
It is also modified for flying low like the f15e. Really cool to see a poweful jet like the strike eagle made
to fly low to shoot stuff on the ground too:)
Must put fear in ground troops to hear that thing pass over!!!

ClearHooter
05-18-2005, 08:31 AM
Excellent! Looks like a photo of a model. If some land mass were just indicated under her you wouldn't be able to tell it from a photo. Not enough to detract but enough to give depth. There's no way I could knock it out on PS in three hours. And no way it would look that good. My hats off to ya! Of course we all know "Real planes have props." :grinyes:

George? Not my favorite person. Doubt if I'd of put forth that much effort on him. He sure hasn't put forth much effort towards the US job market...... Daddy didn't either. Nor did "Slick Willy" for that matter. Yeah. I'm anti-NAFTA or anything else that takes jobs out of the USA. Been hearing any odd clicks or drop-outs on your phone since you posted this? :sunglasse

grantrl78
05-18-2005, 09:25 AM
"Been hearing any odd clicks or drop-outs on your phone
since you posted this?"
LOL! :lol2:
I didn't too much like his daddy either :) Not a good idea to have
the former cia chief to lead the country. Those guys are pretty dirty
At least he was smarter than W though. You can tell in
his interviews that George #1 has a large brain. :eek:
I think it's funny to listen to the far right wing
try and spin w's many screw ups.

Thanks for the compliments clearhooter!
I will spend some more time on the f-15 to finish the missiles and
try a land mass to give it some depth :)

knightvision
05-18-2005, 10:49 AM
A-10 Warthog!!!

No serious. F-14 is probably the most beautiful modern fighter plane.

Interesting that nobody in the US seems to like George W...

ClearHooter
05-18-2005, 10:59 AM
I wouldn't go overboard with the ground. Just enough to show altitude. I noticed it looked like it had launched one of the missles. That might be cool to show the moment of launch. Might also be tricky.

My biggest fear with our present job market is, we run the risk of no longer being able to produce our own hard goods. We are already to that point with steel and textiles. The furniture industry is well on the way of going to foreign markets. The textile industry in the south was our main industry. It is now almost nonexistant. Who do they think is going to buy $30,000 Chevy or a $30.00 pair of Levis? A guy making $5.00 a week! And now Jr is wanting to get into more free trade agreements. You can't have a "level playing field" when your dealing with dictators, despots and communists that keep wages down and artificially and unrealistcly subsidise their labor market and then "dump" their goods back on us. When we can no longer produce our own hard goods we are at risk of being held hostage by those that hate our very existance. Wouldn't that make those who promoted and voted for free trade agreements guilty of treason? :gives:

Riiiiing....Riiiing.....

Hello.............Hello.

click...click.

grantrl78
05-18-2005, 01:18 PM
Man I like warthogs too! Those things are so ugly that they are cool.
It is sad that the 80's "f-14's and f-15's" badasses are
about to be replaced :( .
I think most of the world hates bush!
And half of all americans. :) And growing.

Clearhooter, it is a bad thought about our economy.
We are losing the fight to make most of
our own stuff to other countries.
Seems like the South suffered from the same problems
(among other things) around the time of the civil war.

The US stil makes the best military hardware though. :)

knightvision
05-18-2005, 01:44 PM
The US stil makes the best military hardware though. :)

No. The Europeans do. :smile:

Your economy problem is just the same as in Germany. They send production to Poland or China, and what we receive is a worthless shit that brakes down after using it 3 times. And it takes away our jobs. If they continue doing that, bye bye "Quality made in Germany".

Fortunately, enterprises like Porsche depend on their "made in Germany".

I only bought my Maglite because it is "made in USA" and I also bought my swiss army knife because of "made in Switzerland".

I think this is a very important factor for the decision what to buy.

asaenz
05-18-2005, 02:24 PM
Thanks guys!!!
My fave russian jet is the mig-31.


Aaagh, the Fox Bat right?

That is one over sized and ugly looking F15, dont ya think?:)

It seems in the 70s and 80s Russia was trying to copy our planes.
What was that one plane that looked just like our B1 bomber?

Al

I think the F15 was considered the best fighter jet in the world. So I guess that means the U.S. made the best fighter jet right?

OOps I forgot the coolest looking and badest plane ever was the Soviet FireFox. That plane can take out the F22.

http://www.jimbrooks.org/web/aviation/full/firefox2.jpg

http://www.jimbrooks.org/web/aviation/full/firefox.jpg

:)

grantrl78
05-18-2005, 02:56 PM
That is a cool painting!!!!
Clint Eastwood is a god. I thought it was fictional though!!!
Think in russian :)


The mig-25 was the foxbat.
I think the mig-31 foxhound looks beautiful though!
Huge intakes! Massive engines. Almost as fast as an sr-71!!
But really kind of more angular than the f-15.
Oh...yeah
The plane like the b-1 was the Blackjack.
And there was one like an f-111 was called an su-24 fencer :)

Knightvision we and the russians did steal all of our
cool ideas from the germans :)

Thanks for the replies!! :)

ClearHooter
05-18-2005, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE=knightvision]No. The Europeans do. :smile:

I'd have to question that since ours is the only ones that have been successfully combat tested. "Successfully" is the operative word here. I'm not saying that "combat testing" is a good thing, just a fact. Also you have to figure in the men and women that fly and support them. I salute them proudly.

ClearHooter
05-18-2005, 04:33 PM
A-10 Warthog!!!

No serious. F-14 is probably the most beautiful modern fighter plane.

Interesting that nobody in the US seems to like George W...

The A-10 IS my favorite modern bird. Its maybe the only "in your face" plane left in any arsenal in the world. Its made to "take a likckin' and keep on tickin'." And to think that they wanted to scrap them 15 years ago.

My vote for best looking is the F-18.

People that like "W" are just as adament as those that don't. The big difference is they have the money to buy elections when the popular vote goes against them. :smokin: Bad precident.

grantrl78
05-18-2005, 05:18 PM
"My vote for best looking is the F-18. "

Yep it is pretty too! I like em in bright blue and yellow accents.
Mcdonald Douglas made most of the coolest and baddest
jets before they went under. Hard to believe that thing is over
25 years old :)
And to think desktop computers are
out of date in 3 years or less. :)

knightvision
05-19-2005, 04:20 AM
[QUOTE=knightvision]No. The Europeans do. :smile:

I'd have to question that since ours is the only ones that have been successfully combat tested. "Successfully" is the operative word here. I'm not saying that "combat testing" is a good thing, just a fact. Also you have to figure in the men and women that fly and support them. I salute them proudly.

Yep...

http://www.geocities.com/rams88wr/apache-crash.jpg

http://www.hummer.euweb.cz/index/images/crash/iraq03.jpg

Well seriously, you're right. We haven't tested ours in combat yet. We probably not have to test them in combat in the nearer future, because Mohammed only attacks the US and not the EU anyhow.

Your forces are in a war in at least every decade, so of course they are trained.

Nevertheless, our land and sea warfare equipment is in any case competitive to yours. I mean the tech, not the account of it, e.g. the Visby Corvette, Tiger Attack Helicopter, Leopard II, new generation German submarines...

Only the fighter plane sector is ways ahead to ours. This Eurofighter must be a joke.

And please don't get me wrong. I don't want to make a decleration of war with these words. It's just my own opinion, a bit patriotic maybe, which is still seen as a problem in Germany. But we're wellknown for our mechanical engineering and that somehow includes military hardware.
I also have a F-16 poster in my room... :smile:

grantrl78
05-19-2005, 07:32 AM
Knightvision we like to smack really weak countries! Not sure how honest
a test the last couple of wars have been. I mean how effective is it to
launch a $1million cruise missile at a cave or camel using a strategic bomber
that cost a couple of billion? I think our fighting force does have
some problems. We are still set up to wage war against
a massive ww2 army like the old ussr. The main weakness of planes like the f-15 is that they are too easy of a target sitting
in their weak assed hangars and too expensive and to big of a pain
to service and need too large of a runway to function. A capable army that might use tactical nuclear weapons would wipe out our mighty f-15's
on the ground :)

HighOctaneNOSUser
05-19-2005, 07:57 AM
I still say it's too close to tell between the SU-27 and the F-15. I mean, the SU is the most agile dogfighter, one of the most agile fighters of all time (Jets) And also has a fair array of weapons. But the Eagl has about .1 mach over it, and a few more guns...

And if someone argues the F-22 is still dominent I am, again, going to say 4 letters. SU-37. Thrust vectoring, improved eroganomics and weapons AND radar:) Plus thrust vecotring AND canards so the best just keeps getting better ;)

ClearHooter
05-19-2005, 10:32 AM
The reason the USA is in the sights of Islam is we seem to be one of the few countries that have the nads to support the right of Isreal to exist, after the UN gave it the right to do so. For some reason a large part of the Islamic world finds it hard to co-exist with anyone that isn't. This may be due to a bunch of clerics that feel the only way to stay in control is to use the name of their god to invoke hatred. Since politics and economy haven't, there has to be something to rally around. The problem I have with these people is... "IM NOT MOSLEM. AND AIN'T GOING TO BE!!!!! That makes me and all of those like me INFADELS. And what do they want to do to infadels? And that brings us to a non-negotiable point. By my religious teachings and Constitution, Man has a God given right of self determination. This means to believe in any religion ...or not. To be able to say what we want without fear of retaliation from clerics or government.....George. When we feel its threatened we do react. Hence the war casualties so flipantly shown in the previous reply. If our "allies" were just that they'd see some of their hardware in smoldering piles as well. Its a price we are willing to pay to keep their self-determination. Your welcome. As for being in a war every decade I can't argue that. But the preceeding can to some degree can be blamed as a cause for the tensions of most since WWII.

Tactical Nuclear Weapons??? Now there's a contradiction in terms. It reminds me of a cartoon I once saw called "O Kelly." It involved a dog and a boy master. One day the dog ( a smart one; at least for a dog) showed the boy an atomic fly-swatter he'd invented, saying there was only one problem with it.........."He couldn't find a handle long enough." :grinyes:

Personally if we could do the job with stand-off conventional weapons I'm all for it. But that's not going to happen. We do have to get our hands dirty. War is abhorrent. That's why it doesn't need to be drawn out. Once a course is determined politicians should stay the Hell out of it. We don't get into these things to make friends, that's obvious. If that were the case France would be our best buddy. We get into them to preserve our freedoms, our nation and way of life that most nations envy. If others benifit from the "fallout" fine.

Sorry this deginerated into pissing contest.

grantrl78
05-19-2005, 10:48 AM
Clearhooter i don't feel we were theatened by iraq.
That is where we differ the most. :)
We were attacked by saudis on 911.
But we have no intention of invading them.
We ARE threathened by china and north korea. But somehow
the fact that north korea does have nukes doesn't bother our leaders.
That is a much bigger problem than iraq ever was.
I think we don't go after the north koreans or chinese because they are much stronger and they don't have oil.

Like you though, I have alot of respect for the guys who fight for us.
They are really good and brave. I just hate that they are used by corrupt
leaders.

ClearHooter
05-19-2005, 01:07 PM
I don't disagree that Iraq was further down on the list than those you mention. But we are threatend by Islamic fundamentalist not only as a nation but world wide. I do think it was a mistake to remove Sadam when we did. But I also think if given time he would have been a threat once more. China and N. Korea are threats which is another reason I call the "Free Trade Agreements" treason.

knightvision
05-19-2005, 03:04 PM
You Americans do a lot in the World. There may be different opinions whether you do the right or the wrong, but you act and react. I once watched "Blackhawk Down" which was very tragic.

As you invaded Iraq, nearly all my school mates went on a demonstration against Bush. But I then thought: Ok. they go in, some of them will die, they have the administrative problems and aftermath, George will become serious problems, but we in Germany and France do nothing at all, have one enemy bastard less and then maybe even get an order for some 1000 Mercedes abulances.

I did not go to any of these demos.

This has become a very political thread now. It's a bit off-topic, I think, but very interesting.

stuffbyalex
05-19-2005, 09:04 PM
Looks great Grant. Nice caricature as well

Alex

grantrl78
05-19-2005, 09:13 PM
Clearhooter I know you feel strongly. Thanks for not ripping on me about my politics.
I kind of dreaded reading your response. Because
I thought I would piss you off. And this should be about drawing!
I promise not to mix my war machines with my political drawings anymore :)

Knightvision it is really cool to hear first hand what was going
on in europe at that time. I saw it on the news:) I also saw
some pretty large demonstrations over here on the
news. I think that fact alone showed that this was
far from the clear cut action that happened in the first gulf war. And
I loved blackhawk down! It was a great view of how
complex and screwed up the reasons for war are. From what I have read :) .

And thanx alex! Man you always have cool stuff to say about my work.
I appreciate it!

ClearHooter
05-20-2005, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=grantrl78]Clearhooter I know you feel strongly. Thanks for not ripping on me about my politics.

You can't do the artwork I've been involved with over the last 15 years and meet the people who've lived it and not become appreciative, biased and opinionated. Simply put, we're intitled to our own opinions and self determination. Intollerance is what is intollerable. If we could learn to agree to disagree we could stop wasting resources on destruction and put it towards the many problems we've created that threaten our extinction. I unfortunately don't see this happening, given the present course. Man's intellegence is only equaled by his gullability. What kind of god desires that we kill each other in his name? Thats not devine...Its evil! If we could stand off and look at that question it might take that factor out of the equation. Then we could turn our attention to the real villans; those that thurst for power at our expense. On that final note I once again apologize for my part in taking this thread off its intended course.

I appreciate your excellent artwork and now ask the questions I probably should have asked in the first place. Where did you pick up your PS technique? Is there a publication that might be available that you could suggest? One of my many problems trying to create anything on computer is drawing the initial line art. I've presently been drawing that by hand, scanning it then sending it to PS. What's the trick to being able to create a smooth, irregular, arc? Your work looks like its been masked then airbrushed. Is there something I'm missing in the tools that allows that?

Again...I appreciate everyone's opinions and tollerance.

grantrl78
05-20-2005, 03:19 PM
Thanks Clearhooter ! Your work rocks! I wish I could do the stuff that you do with pencils.
I learned to paint in school. And never touched a brush for about 2 years then got a job coloring for a crappy comics company called chaos! I did 2 books before they went bankrupt! I know that it was my shitty colors that did it :) But I learned from a guy called Todd Boeker who colored alot of spawn books. The main thing he taught me is how to be neat and fast.
It really is the lowest form of art with the lowest pay known to man though:)
Since - I have been painting stuff for myself in my spare time.
It is mostly about using the lasso tool and flat colors to select parts of your canvas. Cool toots are all over the web :)

I sometimes draw with a pen and other times I use a raster program like photoshop or painter. It is just about learning a wacom instead of a
mouse :) And making fast marks. The only advantage to drawing into the computer is the undo function. There is really no secret tool for drawing.
Some use the vector tool in ps but it leaves me with a really boring line
that takes years to do. It is the one that looks like the pen :).
It is a cool thought that some comic inkers are all
digital :) And they use a wacom , their hand and photoshop.

I hope to one day be good enough to paint stuff in my spare time to sell.
The lousy thing about digital art is that you aren't left with a finished canvas :(

Clearhooter, I would love to hear how you learned to paint and etch!

ClearHooter
05-21-2005, 01:05 AM
OK you asked.....

My dad was a Marine during WWII. Afterwards he became a Methodist minister. I started drawing at the age of 4 while sitting on the front pew at church. A TV program when I was around 6 years old waaaay back in the mid '50's called "Learn to Draw" hosted by a guy named John NaGee was a huge influence. He was big on perspective and vanishing points. This influenced my style greatly. Like a lot of the younger artist here, I drew all during school. But my high school had no art program so I was pretty much on my own. There I mostly drew Ed Roth type cars; but I also picked up color pencil then. During high school I also played "blue eyed soul" music with a kickin' 9 piece band called "The Contenental Express." We drew our brass section off of the high school band. Our 3rd chairs were like most schools 1st. "The Express" had a song list of over 400 songs. I've played and written music ever since, that ranges from rock, jazz and country and sometimes a fusion of one or more of the these. My last band was named "Clear Hooter" which I found on a TR6 light switch. I worked on import cars at my own shop from 1973-1984. Stuff just got way to complicated by then and I went to work for the local Toyota dealership. I stayed there through 6 years and as at least as many owners. The next to last owners decided to use a hot air balloon as an advertising campaign. They knew I was nuts and that I raced an F Production MG. Plus they also knew I had no problem being a ham since I played rock 'n roll on stage. They called me in one day and told me they had bought "a big red balloon."

"What like you fly in?" "Can I have a ride?" was my response.

"No we need a pilot"

So they trained me. Until my dying day I swear they thought they were going to deliver parts in the damn thing. I was there when my instructor asked them what they were going to use as a chase vehicle? There reply was "A what?" They were informed that the thing usually only goes one way and the chase vehicle brings it back. They never had a clue about ballooning. They were always wanting me to "Go about 2 miles down and take a right...." But the balloon revived an interest in flying I'd had since I was 4 years old. When I got up there the view was incredible. I had to draw it. Since my dad was a Marine, I'd always had an interest in WWII. I decided I'd like to start drawing planes once more. This time I wanted to document history by meeting airmen and depict their stories. It was also at this time "Clear Hooter" broke up and I was introduced to Robert Taylor's aviation art. I went to a Virgina Bader art symposium and met the guest Adolf Galland, Don Lopez, Hugh Godfrey and Johnny Johnson. I was also introduced to Robert S Johnson 2nd highest USAAF ace in the ETO during WWII. He was, like myself, a spectator. We got to talking and I asked him if he would be interested in discussing an incident or two that would be the start of an aviation art project I was considering? He consented readily. I hate his were my first because the work has improved so much down through the years. Since at that time I'd gone back to school for my BA in commercial graphics they let me work pretty much on that project so long as I fulfilled the rest of the critera for the course. When I got out of there I went to work for a local newspaper as a pressman / process camerman. Times changed quickly and the process camera was phased out in favor of computers. The paper was then bought out by a conglomerate. It became no fun to work there. It was then I was offered work as an etcher / sand blaster / shape carver at a monument company. I stayed there several years until we had a falling out. I'm now finishing up via attrition my aviation project that I've titled "Split Second." In the next several years I'll have no one left to relate first had accounts. At that point if I'm still around, this project will reach its conclusion. I hope at that point to be able to interest someone in publishing a book. I still write music and now have about 40 original songs....that are "keepers" No telling how many that aren't. I'm just starting to work on another art project of 50's 60's and early 70's racing cars as well as the glass etchings. Wheather they'll be successful is yet to be seen, since the economy isn't what it used to be. Art is usually one of the first things to suffer when the economy sucks. Hell... I guess that brings us back to why I hate NAFTA, the WTO and FTAA so much. Lets not go there again. :uhoh: That's about the high spots except my getting married and my wife working as a USPS carrier and supports my artistic interest. Maybe one day either the music or the art will come to fruition and actually yeild some rewards while I'm still alive to enjoy them. Most of the time artist have to die to be appreciated. That sucks!

grantrl78
05-21-2005, 04:24 PM
Damn you have an intersting life. And i thought I would never know the meaning of clear hooter :) I think hands down the 40's were the most interesting and important time of last century. I can't imagine any other time being any more amazing. It is depressing that those guys that made that time so good are all dying :( My generation will never live up to their accomplishments.

"music or the art will come to fruition and actually yeild some rewards" I know that feeling. I don't even have a car and I am a regular at AF. Something is telling me that art isn't going to make me any money. But it is fun to do!

That camera department job you had is similar to what I do now at a screenprint company. Making plates ain't very glamourous work. I really hate it.

Thanks for posting! You should write a book :)

ClearHooter
05-21-2005, 06:57 PM
"Ask and ye shall receive" they say. Clear Hooter was, or is, a British horn and switch company. When I saw the name I just thought "cool band name." I'm also kind of fond of the name "Dreadnought." If I get another band (after 10 years the urge is coming back) it'll be a toss up for those names.

I liked working at the paper until it was bought out. It was a afternoon paper. If you think about it thats the best time for a paper since most of the news happens between early morning and mid afternoon. We "scooped" many TV stations and ALL morning papers when we met an afternoon deadline. When we were bought out we immediately went to a morning paper. When we were run by a small company we had NO MISTAKES!!! After we were bought out I can't say any papers were produced that didn't have at least one or two. I loved the printing aspect. I also not only processed the plates but redgistered them. We had old equipment. It was a real challenge to get 100% accuracy. One press had a redgister problem and I developed a skewing method that brought it into accuracy. When I left the knowledge went with me.

"The Greatest Generation" deserve that title. They went through so much. From the pictures and memories I have of my dad I can never recall him looking young. It wasn't WWII that caused that. It was the "Great Depression." I think. This generation not only changed our lives but our childrens, childrens, childrens etc. They pulled us out of the abyss but at the same moment gave us the power to inialte ourselves. Its up to future generations to temper this neuclear sword. This may make us the "next greatest generation" or our children's, children "the last generation."

grantrl78
05-22-2005, 01:34 AM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/grantrl78/moo.jpg

knightvision
05-22-2005, 05:36 AM
WOW!!!

Excellent!! really excellent! If it would be available at the local shop as a poster, I'd pin it up.

Are you going to sell the design? You could get $$$ for that, imo.

ClearHooter
05-22-2005, 11:19 AM
Bad to the bone.....

grantrl78
05-22-2005, 12:04 PM
Thanks for the compliments.!!!
Damn it makes me happy to read your replies!
I really wish I was good enough to sell stuff.
I would if I could. :)

Legionofone
05-22-2005, 01:29 PM
best fighter we have period is the f-22 raptor... its the most manuverable plane there :) it took on 4 F 16s alone and destroyed them all :) (destroyed as in got a lock on them for like 5 seconds i think)

and ur shits beautiful bro... u could sell it

grantrl78
05-22-2005, 05:23 PM
Thanks Legionofone !!
The raptor is cool :)
Newer jets like the f-22 are supposed to be more user friendly than older ones
like the f-15. They are jammed with computers like an enzo. Some think
that it makes it easier to fly and shoot, others don't.
And even in its day the f-15 was a throwback to old school fighter planes.
It is a more fly by the seat of your pants machine like an f-40. The raptor has a big plus though - stealth. :)

Legionofone
05-22-2005, 08:37 PM
umm bro did u make that plane from scratch or did u toon it?

ClearHooter
05-22-2005, 09:10 PM
Have you ever tried having prints made? I can't afford lithos but put mine on 11x17 electrostatic-photocopies. Office Max does really good work where I live. You'd just have to find someone reliable. I can't print my own for what they charge me. The last ones I got were .52 cents a copy on glossy type, heavy stock. I print mine 5 accounts at a time, since most of them are works in progress. But they usually cost about a $1.00. I had 10 per; done at .52 cents. If I'd have them done in lithos they'd run about $3000.00 to $5000.00 per account for 300 prints; and I have 34 accounts at present. Granted they'd be the size of the originals but I'd have to sell them for over $100.00 per copy. I can sell the 11x17's for $20.00 to $25.00 with the written accounts. This way a 12 year old kid might be able to talk his "old man" into getting them one. I'd rather sell a 12 yr old one than someone my age. I know what happened. They really for the most part don't even have a clue. At $25.00 dollars I'm not burning up the woods since I usually can only "finish" at the most 4 per year and the last several years only 2. It depends on the availability of the research material. Since yours are just depicting the aircraft and not a moment in history you should be able to expidite the work. "Just" isn't to mean anything derogotory. But trying to recreate a moment in time requires much more research than drawing time. Like I said about "Moulmein Morning" it took 2 1/2 years and 3 drawings to get what I felt was accurate. Then it took another 6 months to hunt Joe back down, since he'd moved from Franklin, NC during that time. I was lucky to have been able to have found him again. Granted the research does get easier as you go along but there are always missing pieces to the puzzles.

I take my work to airshows that only want no more than 25% of sales...usually 15% or a space rental of no more than $25.00. This leaves out places like Osh Kosh. They want more for a space than I make on total sales for the year. The problem with upfront rent is....what if it rains? Or what if you don't sell anything? That does happen. Oddly back in April I went to Charlotte Auto Fair. I was trying to sell some of the auto etchings. $60.00 - $80.00. Didn't sell a one! But I did sell over $300.00 in aviation prints. Go figure. Also "TheBay" has been a pretty good outlet to sell in. Sometime you do sometime you don't and it costs you no matter.

Your work is good enough to sell. Invest a $100.00 or so. Its a gamble but its like my friends that do gamble say. "You can't win if you don't play." Personally my work is the only "gambling" I do. I like the odds better when I've got a hand in stacking the deck.

I'd hate to try to make a living out of just this this type of artwork and don't have to thanks to my wife's job; but its a great suppliment to her income. I also still do the etchings on monuments. My only problem is I keep turning the "profit" around into research material. But if you claim it, its tax deductable as art tools. On good shows we go out to a nice dinner. That's even deductable if you keep the tickets.

grantrl78
05-22-2005, 09:10 PM
Legionofone from scratch with a reference photo :) :naughty:
Btw what does toon it mean?

Clearhooter man thanks for the info! $3000...Damn!!!
It is way obvious that you are much smarter than I am
about all of this stuff :) I know I have a good start but
you are way ahead of me in quality. Crap you spend months
on your stuff!You have a solid battle plan and some
great connections too.

I love airshows and that sounds like a awesome way to spend my spare time.
I will definately take your advice. I just have that nagging feeling that I have a ways to go before I can consistently crank out stuff that people would pay for.

Legionofone
05-22-2005, 10:20 PM
just because i found this image trying to make a photochoped car with a jet engine

http://www.freedesktopwallpapers.net/military/f15-eagle-fighter-plane.jpg

grantrl78
05-22-2005, 11:05 PM
Said I used a reference and that was the one.
You still didn't answer my question.
What does "toon it" mean ?
If you do a search on everything that I have posted you will find a desktop wallpaper that I used for a reference.
Here is a higher rez part of the cockpit.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/grantrl78/early-1.jpg

:uhoh:

Legionofone
05-23-2005, 04:24 AM
u can just turn a image into a toon picture... its not to hard... if ur just tracing over lines its not realy a original...

knightvision
05-23-2005, 05:21 AM
u can just turn a image into a toon picture... its not to hard... if ur just tracing over lines its not realy a original...

You're funny. If you have ever did that, you'd see that it is hard. if you want it to look good. Of course you can take corel trace or whatever and let it trace in a second with one mouse click.
But he did it on his own. You have to consider which lines you use, which colors you use, which details you can left, which not and so on. In addition, it takes hours and hours of work.

In my oppininion it IS art.

Legionofone
05-23-2005, 06:17 AM
i dunno when i first saw it i was impressed i thought he had done something like the guys on the auto manipulation forum and used some 3d rendering program... then i read his little blurb... and he said 100% from photoshop so i was like hmmmz... so i was thinking he drew it i mean yeh i can see a reference picture... but traceing lines and such... i can see it would be hard but i dont think that persay he could sell it like they were saying up there... atleast not without royaltys to the original picture creater... (im guessing the goverment or something) anyway... just my moment of crazyness... :) off to school <3

o yeh i messed around in photoshop for like 5 mins and got this

http://img88.echo.cx/img88/3306/f15eaglefighterplane5mo.jpg

far from the quality of his but itz a start :) i might clean it up and finish it up like his later... but like i said school :)

Legionofone
05-23-2005, 06:31 AM
Tactical Nuclear Weapons??? Now there's a contradiction in terms. It reminds me of a cartoon I once saw called "O Kelly." It involved a dog and a boy master. One day the dog ( a smart one; at least for a dog) showed the boy an atomic fly-swatter he'd invented, saying there was only one problem with it.........."He couldn't find a handle long enough." :grinyes:

Personally if we could do the job with stand-off conventional weapons I'm all for it. But that's not going to happen. We do have to get our hands dirty. War is abhorrent. That's why it doesn't need to be drawn out. Once a course is determined politicians should stay the Hell out of it. We don't get into these things to make friends, that's obvious. If that were the case France would be our best buddy. We get into them to preserve our freedoms, our nation and way of life that most nations envy. If others benifit from the "fallout" fine.



HAHAHA had to say something... i love ur bro... great reasonings... u know whats crazy... the military is making the terminator situation now... they are breaking the laws of robotics... u know like a robot cant hurt a human and so on... they are making robots that kill :) <3 the goverment... anyone seen those predators... wait till we put a nuke on one of them and send them over and some hacker grabs that thing out of US control and bombs us EEEK! scarry thoughs... i agree though... war is war... we kill 500000000 of there people and are like we are loosing 1 person a day to enemy insurgence... sorry thats part of war... i would probably the 1 of them... glad im not in the army yet... :( but ya im pro war... but im about ready for it to be over :)

grantrl78
05-23-2005, 07:54 AM
I am thinking that you might have have alot
of "school" before you can finish that one up.
Saved by the bell as it were :)
And if you recreate it with with the airbrush,
I will be like "hmmmz"that IS 100% from scratch.
Seems that you left out the important stuff though,
like the painting part.

If you airbrush 100% of the jet and paint a new background
that is your painting. Period.

You are confusing painting with ps and using photoshop
to make chops. That seems to be a common
problem around this forum. Certain rules like you "cant use photoshop"
in the design contests reflect this misconception.
It must be "hand drawn". What else do you use to draw with
on a wacom, your foot ?
It is a fundamental misunderstanding of photoshop
and of art in general. The only thing out of your head is cartoons,
really stylized stuff and bad realism. Everything else
has a strong reference.

There is a book that you might want to
read by david hockney
about the camera obscura called "secret knowledge".
The first thing non painting gallery owners tried to do was smear
hockney because his theories might hurt their bottom line. When the
fact is that realism was born in art with that particular optical tracing
device that he wrote about.

Ever heard of jan vermeer? He was a toon maker too it
seems - that hack!!!! Or sorayama? Or phillip castle?
I guess they do toons too!
How dare they try to pass off those images as their own.
I am with them. A hack toon maker:)

ClearHooter
05-23-2005, 10:13 AM
"The Laws of Robotics"..... I've heard of that but have always considered it to be one of those things in sci-fi books and movies that bring in a conflict of morals to the story. This implies that the science has evolved to a point that the robot would have moral conflicts. I think we have much more to worry about terroist acquiring radioactive materials or a nuke or bio-weapons and setting of a dirty or a catostrophic blast or a bio attack long before they get a robot that can decern the difference between right and wrong. Granted they have robots that can be used for attacks now but they are still guided by humans and its morals are that of the controlers.

I'm not "pro war." I'm pro "Rights of Man." When a group of people want to infringe upon these "Rights" the situation becomes non-negotiable. The way this is going it has a possibility of going on for generations....Or ending in a big flash. I may be trying to simplify a very complex situation but there are logical political solutions but they require people thinking for themselves and that's something they don't seem to do over there. There are non-nuclear military solutions but thats something our government doesn't seem to be willing to do, since politicians want to "win the peace." The first is much more preferred than the latter.

ClearHooter
05-23-2005, 10:30 AM
OOOoo! OOOooo! I like the rocket salvo and the frame overlap. If you softend the line of the outside, horizontal, tail-stabalizer on the rocket side a bit it would give the rocket some trajectory. The smoke would pass over the tail before the rocket dropped and went on its way. :smokin:

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