2006 Monte Carlo


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Sticky
05-13-2005, 03:37 PM
I like the body style of the car, I especially like the engine that they put in the SS version...but why did they make it FWD? The only positive is that there is a slight chance that there is a possibility of a RWD V8 car coming from Chevy in the near future...but that's just speculation by me.

Muscletang
05-13-2005, 07:35 PM
:useless:

http://www.ferrari0george.com/sportscars/2006_Chevrolet_Monte_Carlo_SS/1.jpg

http://www.ferrari0george.com/sportscars/2006_Chevrolet_Monte_Carlo_SS/2.jpg

http://www.ferrari0george.com/sportscars/2006_Chevrolet_Monte_Carlo_SS/8.jpg

http://www.ferrari0george.com/sportscars/2006_Chevrolet_Monte_Carlo_SS/10.jpg

This is the only information posted about this car, horsepower is 303 and torque is 323. The price is unknown but does anybody see what I'm seeing?

drunken monkey
05-13-2005, 08:21 PM
that has to be one of the most uninspiring things i've seen in a long time...

the front end is ok (kinda like a cross between an old civic and and old mondeo with sharper looking light units)..... but the rear is nasty and the wishy-washy slashes on the side are too 'weak', almost like a half hearted attempt at detail.
that rear spoiler is a joke.
the dash is lifeless and er... am i spotting gaps in the fitment or is the top panel suposed to overlap in that corner like that?

of course, it might be that i can see what they're trying to imitate which lends me to having a harsher opinion of it.

Jimster
05-14-2005, 02:51 AM
Styling- Bland

Fit and Finish- Terrible

Engine- might be allright

Handling- Can only get worse. FWD and V8 are not exactly a match made in heaven.

blindside.AMG
05-14-2005, 03:31 AM
That car looks obese. The interior looks ok, but that's about it. I would never consider buying it.

crayzayjay
05-14-2005, 08:16 AM
The front is bland at best and the back is simply hideous. And a FWD V8? :lol2:

Wouldn't be seen dead in that.

Jimster
05-14-2005, 08:32 AM
I think that Chevy put this car out simply to remind people that while American cars are getting better, there are still a few that we can have a good laugh at.

crayzayjay
05-14-2005, 08:42 AM
Indeed :iceslolan

mason_RsX
05-14-2005, 09:16 AM
when I first looked at the front end I had thought GM came up with a brand new design for the monte carlo...then I saw the other pics and it still is as bland as the 2004s.... I dont mind the instrument cluster, it looks pretty good... but like the rest of the guys sayd Fwd and V8 and 323lb-ft of torque, ouch! was it you Jimster that said a fwd car is better than rwd up to 250hp?

crayzayjay
05-14-2005, 09:39 AM
If Jimmy did say that why would he have bought a 330ci and not say, an Alfa GTA ;)

The 250bhp is the figure many believe is the most you can put through a FWD car. After that the wheels struggle to put the power down AND steer.

I could be mistaken though, Jim does often talk a lot of sh... ahem, never mind :icon16:

drunken monkey
05-14-2005, 10:54 AM
....the 250bhp fwd max is something saab announced in some kind of article way back in the late 80s/early 90s and so far, it has been more or less proven right.... ish.
(igonroing autodelta offerings....)
230-240 seems to be a more realistic figure cos so far, anything fwd with around 250 has been too much even for the gizmos they stick in to control the rough edges.
either that or the engineering to quell the problems like torque steer end up numbing the feel/response at 'normal' driving speeds.

mason_RsX
05-14-2005, 09:11 PM
I could be mistaken though, Jim does often talk a lot of sh... ahem, never mind :icon16:

He is an accountant...baaaazing!

thats an interesting theory tho

YukiHime
05-15-2005, 01:55 PM
Where is the CLUTCH??

crayzayjay
05-15-2005, 05:37 PM
Say it with me. AU-TO-MA-TIC.

mason_RsX
05-16-2005, 08:56 AM
au...to...ma...ti...c? what the hell is that?

crayzayjay
05-16-2005, 09:06 AM
A sin ;)

drunken monkey
05-16-2005, 08:53 PM
christ.. and i thought i was harsh....

Filthy Sanchez
05-24-2005, 04:17 PM
A sin ;)


Amen brother. Well with a front drive lightwieght you can do great with 250hp. My uncle works for Cadillac and he said they get 90's Caddies in all the time and the V8 eats up the transaxle. As stated before not a match made in heaven. GM though seems to want to keep doing it, and just recently scrapped plans for a new rear drive platform for Monte Carlo, GTO, and possibly a return Camaro. Those GM guys are brilliant, actually they're idiots but hey who knows maybe a front drive Camaro will come along.

YukiHime
05-31-2005, 07:00 PM
A-too-pathetic?

Is that how to say it?

Is this a sports coupe? Then where is the basic thing called a clutch pedal?

By the way, just seen one couple days ago. I would take the old one over the new one...(Well, if I want to commit suicide after buying either of them...)

gonenuts15792
06-20-2005, 02:22 AM
Styling- Bland

Fit and Finish- Terrible

Engine- might be allright

Handling- Can only get worse. FWD and V8 are not exactly a match made in heaven.
Styling: Looks just as good if not better than the competitors . You want a lineup of bland appliances, check out toyota and honda.

And you back up the fit and finish claim how again? You haven't seen one, you haven't sat in one, you haven't even looked at one from 20 feet yet. If the fit and finish is anything like the recent GM vehicles coming out, well then you're completely wrong. HHR, Cobalt, H3, etc. Anyone?

Engine: Might be alright? Yeah that's why that engine in RWD format is cosidered one of the best. Small Block Chevy V8 anyone?

Handling: So you're saying you rather have a FWD I4 or V6 like in the Camry Solara? V8 sounds good to me, even if it's in FWD format (with recent transmission and handling improvements torque steer is virtually eliminated), find me a competitor of this vehicle that beats that...

Zachp911
06-20-2005, 08:25 AM
when is Chevy gonna realize that they suck at making cars? :shakehead

gonenuts15792
06-20-2005, 02:11 PM
when is Chevy gonna realize that they suck at making cars? :shakehead
When will you drive a new Chevy and realize they don't suck at making cars? :shakehead

Zachp911
06-20-2005, 02:54 PM
When will you drive a new Chevy and realize they don't suck at making cars? :shakehead

umm let me see... never :rolleyes:

Just people I've talked to who own a chevy automobile say that chevys craftmanship and quality sucks ass, always something breaking.

Wolfwood
06-20-2005, 03:04 PM
I drive japanese cars myself, but in the interests of giving credit where its due, i would like to say my dad owns a 86 chevy astro-van with 370,000 miles on it, and no engine work. The 700r4 auto trans has been replaced once at about 200,000, and no significant other work has been done on the car. Its the best damn car i've ever seen and its still running! I'm not saying all chevy's are this reliable, but its sure proved to me that they are at least capable of making a great product.

gonenuts15792
06-20-2005, 03:21 PM
umm let me see... never :rolleyes:

Just people I've talked to who own a chevy automobile say that chevys craftmanship and quality sucks ass, always something breaking.

OH just people you talk to huh. Well come back after driving a new GM vehicle, when you have expierence. :shakehead

Jimster
06-22-2005, 02:17 AM
Styling: Looks just as good if not better than the competitors . You want a lineup of bland appliances, check out toyota and honda.

And you back up the fit and finish claim how again? You haven't seen one, you haven't sat in one, you haven't even looked at one from 20 feet yet. If the fit and finish is anything like the recent GM vehicles coming out, well then you're completely wrong. HHR, Cobalt, H3, etc. Anyone?

Engine: Might be alright? Yeah that's why that engine in RWD format is cosidered one of the best. Small Block Chevy V8 anyone?

Handling: So you're saying you rather have a FWD I4 or V6 like in the Camry Solara? V8 sounds good to me, even if it's in FWD format (with recent transmission and handling improvements torque steer is virtually eliminated), find me a competitor of this vehicle that beats that...
Styling- What you're essentially saying is that a pile of runny shit looks better than a pile of vomit. Yes, the Camry is just as boring, but that does not excuse the Monte Carlo for being unspeakably bland. Looks nowhere near as good as a Holden Commodore or Ford Falcon, though.

Fit and finish, look at the panel gaps most notably the front panel on the passengers side between the top panel and the cener console, the plastic panel above the cupholders looks like it wasn't put on properly, the center console and the panel around the vents/steering wheel don't meet close enough and the plastics appear to be about the same grade as an economy Nissan, American cars never have and probably never will use proper plastics in thier interiors, so yes I hardly expected an insignificant model like the Monte Carlo to lead a supposed GM attack on interior quality.

Handling- Sorry, but the Monte Carlo was sloppy as a V6 and a V8 will do nothing other than add unnecessary weight to the front of the car, provoking understeer and give the car an appetite for CV joints.
If the car eliminates torque steer, then it's probably TCS/ESP doing it, in which case it'll be slowed down to no end with the computer dictating what the car does, instead of the driver.

gonenuts15792
06-22-2005, 03:51 AM
Styling- What you're essentially saying is that a pile of runny shit looks better than a pile of vomit. Yes, the Camry is just as boring, but that does not excuse the Monte Carlo for being unspeakably bland. Looks nowhere near as good as a Holden Commodore or Ford Falcon, though.

Fit and finish, look at the panel gaps most notably the front panel on the passengers side between the top panel and the cener console, the plastic panel above the cupholders looks like it wasn't put on properly, the center console and the panel around the vents/steering wheel don't meet close enough and the plastics appear to be about the same grade as an economy Nissan, American cars never have and probably never will use proper plastics in thier interiors, so yes I hardly expected an insignificant model like the Monte Carlo to lead a supposed GM attack on interior quality.

Handling- Sorry, but the Monte Carlo was sloppy as a V6 and a V8 will do nothing other than add unnecessary weight to the front of the car, provoking understeer and give the car an appetite for CV joints.
If the car eliminates torque steer, then it's probably TCS/ESP doing it, in which case it'll be slowed down to no end with the computer dictating what the car does, instead of the driver.

Guess what, the vehicles you are talking about are not available in the U.S where this Monte Carlo is being sold. Again, I ask you, find me a competitor of this vehicle that has more exciting "unbland" styling. Want my opinion it has character unlike the appliances sold by toyota and honda....

I don't know about you, but the Commodore is pretty bland with not much attitude if you ask me...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/BigAlZ/DSC00106.jpg

http://www.nextcar.com.au/i.holden.VZ.commodore.sedan.04aug.jpg

Fit and Finish, let me remind you that these photos are from a very early preproduction model. That said. I've looked at the Hi resolution images, and the body panels have no gaps like you said, yes in the picture above in the areas that you pointed out something doesn't look right, but that is more because of compression and squeezing a hi res picture down to that size. For your enjoyment here are the Hi Res images. If you look the body gaps are very tight, and and also notice the low shine of the plastics, and the new composite materials used as trim around the dash panel and door switches.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10284/MC3.jpg

Oh and until you actually come to the states and sit in a new GM car, I'll take anything you say with a grain of salt..... As I've said before, I've seen, I've sat, and I've touched the material in the recent GM offerings and I'm very impressed.

And again with the handling, I doubt you've driven this car, so again I'll take what you say as a grain of salt. Again find me a competitor that offers what will be offered on the Monte Carlo. BTW, if you live where it snows, you don't always want RWD...

You my friend, seem to jump to conclusion and state stuff that has no way of being backed up. I find it hard to believe that without inspecting something up front you will jump into a thread and make comments like this. Wait strike that, I don't find it unbelievable, afterall you are Jimster. :shakehead

gonenuts15792
06-22-2005, 03:57 AM
GM though seems to want to keep doing it, and just recently scrapped plans for a new rear drive platform for Monte Carlo, GTO, and possibly a return Camaro. Those GM guys are brilliant, actually they're idiots but hey who knows maybe a front drive Camaro will come along.


You're talking about the Zeta platform? It's not scrapped, it's not dead. Holden is continuing to work on the platform, and more work is being done on a new platform called Epsilon II that will allow multiple drivetrain configurations, and multiple body styles, such as AWD, FWD, and RWD. All GM did was shift focus, and the media decided to blow everything out of proportion, but what's new...

Oh and there will be a new RWD performance car coming out, that's been pretty much confirmed, who knows though if it'll be called the Camaro.

Jimster
06-22-2005, 05:12 AM
Character? HUH don't kid yourself, it's a plasticky, bland looking rolling turd, if you want character then look at an Alfa, a Jaguar or a Lanica, this car is simply Americas Camry, the end. I'd also have to say that I can find plenty of cars that look better than the Monte Carlo, given it's price (About $30,000 I'd guess): Ford Five Hundred, Mazda RX8, Dodge Magnum, Volkswagen Passat, Nissan Altima, Subaru Legacy to name a few, all these cars hit the Monte Carlo for six in the visual department.

Secondly, you showed a Monte Carlo SS alongside a Commodore Executive, you DO know that the Executive is the utmost base spec Commodore, do you not? Aka the one that the police/taxi drivers go for.

Here is a Commodore SS for proper comaprisons sake http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/vy/images/vy-ss01.jpg
I think that it goes without saying that Holden wins the rear end view comparison comfortably as well, it's also a no-brainer that the Holden is going to offer a better performance and handling package.

I'll admit I haven't been to the US for nigh on a year now, but I have extensively driven a Cadillac CTS and found the cheapness of the plastics to be somewhat mortifying, given that it costs more over here than a 3 series or an A4 (Though at least the CTS' interior fitted properly, unlike that Monte Carlo), I'm taking it that this is one of the "new GM's" in fact it was only a small step forward over previous efforts in the interior quality stakes.

Handling? Given GM's previous FWD efforts, I really do not hold any hope for the Monte Carlo with a V8 shoehorned in it, the fact is the car should have been Rear Wheel Drive, it wasn't, dumb move.

gonenuts15792
06-22-2005, 01:47 PM
Whatever you say Jimster, I've been here before, I'll leave it at that. Foriegners don't know shit about the american automotive industry, and you prove that. Stubborn italians.....

drunken monkey
06-22-2005, 05:07 PM
american automotive industry.
let's see, MY condensed version of it.

three big companies make various versions of the same car (respective to each company) and sell them under different banners offering the illusion of choice between different quality/class vehicles (using what-ever's left of brand image of said sub-brands) whereas the reality is that they are ALL cheap pieces of tat.

how's that?
and before any response is given, might i just like to remind you of the Chevywoo Matiz.
is that an example of the ingenuity of american car company bosses?

ec437
06-22-2005, 05:16 PM
140??? That's it? From 300+ horsepower? What the hell is up with that?

gonenuts15792
06-22-2005, 05:50 PM
I know now why I haven't visited these forums. Nobody knows the facts, about anything. it should be called importforums.com every american car is evil and if you happen to be a fan or support an american car company you're evil. :shakehead

drunken monkey
06-22-2005, 06:36 PM
or maybe it's because you don't have a sense of humour?

anyway.
you can be a fan of what-ever you want.
no one has ever argued that.
you just have to be aware that being an ardent fan involves some defending some time or other and if you're not prepared to, or even unable to defend that support, then maybe you should ask yourself why you can't.
in my opinion, being a fan of a brand is a bit daft.
it equates to kids trying/wanting to own the best of what ever there is. even if what their chosen alliegence doesn't produce the best, it is still the best.... (think super nintendo/sega megadrive, PS2/Dreamcube/X-box etc etc).
me?
i like individual cars from who ever makes them.
i am not a fan of whatever brand (but i am aware of the relelvance of a brand), i am a fan of cars. brand doesn't mean much beyond who makes it.
i mean, if cadillac ever made a car that is on par with a 360, i'd be fan of that car.

what we're doing here, is pointing to the bad things that we see from the pics of the car as mentioned in the title of the thread.
if you actually bother to read, you'd see that we do the same to whatever car is put up for discussion.

crayzayjay
06-22-2005, 08:35 PM
Character..... That was a good one :lol2:

Jimster
06-23-2005, 01:12 AM
I know now why I haven't visited these forums. Nobody knows the facts, about anything. it should be called importforums.com every american car is evil and if you happen to be a fan or support an american car company you're evil. :shakehead
No, we know the facts, you just don't want to accept them. Believe it or not, GM can do wrong, in fact most of the time they do wrong. Drunken Monkey was spot on about the American automotive industry as well, that's more or less all it does, while every now and then bringing in a model from overseas and giving it the Amiercan badge engineering treatment (Cadillac Catera, Chevrolet Aveo, Dodge Colt, Pontiac GTO, Ford Contour, need I go on?)

I'm perfectly aware of the American Auto industry, I usually wind up in America at least once every 18 months, whether it be business or pleasure, I've had to put up with Rental cars made by the US "Big three" that have constantly been below par, I've driven cars belonging to family members there (Yes, my old man was born in America, so don't try and give me any "You're anti American" bullshit) and at the end of the day, of the cars on sale in America by the big three I've probably driven about a good 65-70% of them, so I think I'm more than qualified enough to talk about the American auto industry, thanks for playing though.

Jaguar D-Type
06-23-2005, 04:15 PM
No, we know the facts, you just don't want to accept them. Believe it or not, GM can do wrong, in fact most of the time they do wrong. Drunken Monkey was spot on about the American automotive industry as well, that's more or less all it does, while every now and then bringing in a model from overseas and giving it the Amiercan badge engineering treatment (Cadillac Catera, Chevrolet Aveo, Dodge Colt, Pontiac GTO, Ford Contour, need I go on?)

I'm perfectly aware of the American Auto industry, I usually wind up in America at least once every 18 months, whether it be business or pleasure, I've had to put up with Rental cars made by the US "Big three" that have constantly been below par, I've driven cars belonging to family members there (Yes, my old man was born in America, so don't try and give me any "You're anti American" bullshit) and at the end of the day, of the cars on sale in America by the big three I've probably driven about a good 65-70% of them, so I think I'm more than qualified enough to talk about the American auto industry, thanks for playing though.

The Cadillac Catera is no longer made. Cadillac now has a rwd CTS built on its own chassis shared with the new Cadillac STS and SRX.

Have you noticed that MG Rover is dead? Didn't they badge engineer?

Notice the trouble Fiat has now. GM has to pay them $2 billion. Mercedes-Benz lost around $1 billion in the first quarter this year. VW lost over $1 billion in North America last year. They were just fined over $1 million recently.

check here

VW fined (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=421266)

The UAW, pensions, and insurance costs are helping Ford and GM. Some workers get paid $20 per hour to do basic work that just about anyone could do.

http://www.uaw.org/

Ford, GM, and Chrysler aren't the only current American automobile companies. Panoz makes sports cars in Georigia and Saleen builds a supercar, the S7.

Panoz sports car (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=379617&page=1)

Saleen S7 and S7R (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=379893&page=1)

drunken monkey
06-23-2005, 04:34 PM
and your point is?

Jimster
06-23-2005, 08:29 PM
The Cadillac Catera is no longer made. Cadillac now has a rwd CTS built on its own chassis shared with the new Cadillac STS and SRX.

Have you noticed that MG Rover is dead? Didn't they badge engineer?

Notice the trouble Fiat has now. GM has to pay them $2 billion. Mercedes-Benz lost around $1 billion in the first quarter this year. VW lost over $1 billion in North America last year. They were just fined over $1 million recently.

check here

VW fined (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=421266)

The UAW, pensions, and insurance costs are helping Ford and GM. Some workers get paid $20 per hour to do basic work that just about anyone could do.

http://www.uaw.org/

Ford, GM, and Chrysler aren't the only current American automobile companies. Panoz makes sports cars in Georigia and Saleen builds a supercar, the S7.

Panoz sports car (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=379617&page=1)

Saleen S7 and S7R (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=379893&page=1)
I know very well that the Catera is not produced, I was giving it as a historical example :rolleyes:

MG-Rover died because they were run by ignorant, elitist and arrogant drop kicks that thought the British and those in the colonies were so patriotic to HRH, that they'd buy a Rover 213 SL, MG Maestro or an Austin Allegro even though they were complete and utter crap. They never listened to the customers and went bust. What has that got to do with GM? Well I actually see GM about where BMC was in the mid 70's and if they don't watch out the Japanese are going to steam roll them.

As for FIAT, as someone who used to work for them, I can tell you it's certainly no surprise that Fiat have fallen to where they are today, thier accounting policies are shockingly untidy and the other part is due to letting quality control slip after the Uno came out, but that's also got only a tiny bit to do with this conversation.

Wow, you talk as if GM, Ford and Chrysler have never had financial problems recently. GM's shares havew shed 74% (You read that right, 74%) since 2000, that's wiped $56 billion off the value of the company.

Ford has reported heavy losses over the years and has recently lost its Number two position to Toyota.

Chrysler had to be rescued by Daimler Benz, for they were on the verge of going bankrupt and do not appear to have recovered from the losses.

Jaguar D-Type
06-23-2005, 10:00 PM
Of course I know about the financial troubles of Ford Motor Company and GM. I've researched this unlike many people on these forums.

drunken monkey
06-23-2005, 10:11 PM
and why do you feel the need to question the knowledge of other people on the forums?

Jaguar D-Type
06-24-2005, 01:54 AM
For example, notice the statement that the Chevy Cobalt was just a restyled Cavalier in this same forum.

gonenuts15792
06-24-2005, 02:03 AM
OK Jimster, you know it all, GM is evil GM is bad, they make no good cars, either does Ford or Chrysler. Oh wait you like Chrysler (Jeep), don't know why they rank at below average on all the reliability and quality surveys but yet where is GM on those, oh that's right they seem to be near the top part of the chart on most of those. So yup Jimster, you're right, GM can't do anything right. Wake up, you tell me I can't accept facts when it's obvious you can't either, or you just don't bother to look things up.

Jimster
06-24-2005, 08:49 AM
OK Jimster, you know it all, GM is evil GM is bad, they make no good cars, either does Ford or Chrysler. Oh wait you like Chrysler (Jeep), don't know why they rank at below average on all the reliability and quality surveys but yet where is GM on those, oh that's right they seem to be near the top part of the chart on most of those. So yup Jimster, you're right, GM can't do anything right. Wake up, you tell me I can't accept facts when it's obvious you can't either, or you just don't bother to look things up.
I actually don't mind Fords newer vehicles, they're certainly better than the rubbish being churned out by GM (Well certainly the Five Hundred is, as is the Focus). GM's American division make three good cars- The Corvette, XLR and the CTS and even then the CTS is ugly and the Vette and CTS have cheap interiors, the XLR could, for all I know, but I have yet to drive one.

Also why do you think that the car which has the pins holding in the floormat break or the ashtray fall out the least means it's the better car? (Yes that's what many Americans deem to be a "fault" on thier car) A Lotus Elise or a TVR T350C is built worse than a Mustang V6, but does that make the Mustang a better car? Nope, not at all.

I can accept the facts, I KNOW the facts, I've worked in the industry before, I've had to deal with customer complaints about cars, I know that the reliability surveys are a crock as a result, according to reliability surveys a piece of plastic trim falling off is just as serious as the engine seizing up, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, don't even get me started on the elasticity of reliability (curtis73 actually gives a fantastic explanation of this). You on the other hand, are just some kid that THINKS he knows everything and I'm sure you would in your ideal world.

Look mate, you live in a free country, so do I, you are quite entitled to think GM is the all-conquering god, just don't expect everybody to think the same way, because they are free to differ.

Jaguar D-Type
06-24-2005, 04:58 PM
The new rwd Cadillac STS is a nice luxury car.

gonenuts15792
06-25-2005, 12:11 AM
I actually don't mind Fords newer vehicles, they're certainly better than the rubbish being churned out by GM (Well certainly the Five Hundred is, as is the Focus). GM's American division make three good cars- The Corvette, XLR and the CTS and even then the CTS is ugly and the Vette and CTS have cheap interiors, the XLR could, for all I know, but I have yet to drive one.

Also why do you think that the car which has the pins holding in the floormat break or the ashtray fall out the least means it's the better car? (Yes that's what many Americans deem to be a "fault" on thier car) A Lotus Elise or a TVR T350C is built worse than a Mustang V6, but does that make the Mustang a better car? Nope, not at all.

I can accept the facts, I KNOW the facts, I've worked in the industry before, I've had to deal with customer complaints about cars, I know that the reliability surveys are a crock as a result, according to reliability surveys a piece of plastic trim falling off is just as serious as the engine seizing up, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, don't even get me started on the elasticity of reliability (curtis73 actually gives a fantastic explanation of this). You on the other hand, are just some kid that THINKS he knows everything and I'm sure you would in your ideal world.

Look mate, you live in a free country, so do I, you are quite entitled to think GM is the all-conquering god, just don't expect everybody to think the same way, because they are free to differ.


Are are truly funny.....

That's all I have to say. :lol2:

slideways...
06-25-2005, 01:42 AM
gonenuts you are obviously not caring at all about backing up your opinions. jimster and monkey have both stated lots of FACTS while you just blow them off and repeat your opinion that GM is king.
im not an american car hater by a LONG shot but you really need to research and know what your talking about before you speak otherwise you will just look ignorant.

Filthy Sanchez
06-25-2005, 07:48 AM
I know now why I haven't visited these forums. Nobody knows the facts, about anything. it should be called importforums.com every american car is evil and if you happen to be a fan or support an american car company you're evil. :shakehead

I agree with you that those forums are crap, and I am from Detroit as well I have family that works for Ford, GM, and Chryler. I only buy american and will continue to do so. It's just that more often than not GM recently has been nothing more than a dissapointment to me. They make nothing I want save the new 06 Vette. They continue to make bland front drive crap and other ugly cars. I honestly think they've done great with the platforms and chassis of Cadillac yet all the new Cadillacs look like shit! Chevy trucks have the ugly ass Avalanche front end and the Colorado while a descent truck INHO looks like well another ugly GM design. Monte Carlo looks OK yet is a front drive POS, and I could never get excited about a Cobalt (or a Neon, or Focus to be fair) just not into little cars. Look at the Pontiac Vibe it looks just like one of Toyotas uglier cars the Matrix, oh wait it is a Matrix! Made right down the street from my house. The GTO was brought back and I thought hell yeah rear drive great driveline but then it looks like a grand am just plain bland. They need to give it a distinct style. Though I am happy about the Solstice and the Saturn whatever they call it, rear drive with a solid new 4cyl. ecotec. Put the supercharged ecotec in there IMHO nice ride. Other than that it's just blanned cars nobody wants.

gonenuts15792
06-25-2005, 07:20 PM
All you people saying GM builds bland cars need to take a look at honda and toyota, they don't exactly get my blod pumping. Hell honda doesn't even have a V8. Their truck is a joke, and toyotas trucks aren't any better. GM only sells the most trucks and SUVs of any other manufacturers. They are winning awards for best quality and reliability, and are ranking above average on many fronts. And another thing not everyone wants RWD. I'm sick of saying the same damn things over, only to be ignored anyway and have Jimster who is obviously just as biased as me towards vehicles spin the facts. You want facts, and a real discussion about GM cars and other vehicles, head over to www.gminsidenews.com.

Filthy Sanchez
06-25-2005, 07:31 PM
All you people saying GM builds bland cars need to take a look at honda and toyota, they don't exactly get my blod pumping. Hell honda doesn't even have a V8. Their truck is a joke, and toyotas trucks aren't any better. GM only sells the most trucks and SUVs of any other manufacturers. They are winning awards for best quality and reliability, and are ranking above average on many fronts. And another thing not everyone wants RWD. I'm sick of saying the same damn things over, only to be ignored anyway and have Jimster who is obviously just as biased as me towards vehicles spin the facts. You want facts, and a real discussion about GM cars and other vehicles, head over to www.gminsidenews.com.

So for a real discussion about GM cars we should head over to a GM biased site!? Sorry but people who buy a Camaro, or mustang were not the same people who would buy a Dodge Daytona Chrysler learned that the hard way in the 80's. Not everyone wants RWD for certain cars though they do. Luxury car buyers are not willing to spend $40,000 on an extended economy car chassis with all the bells and whistles. GM even realized that and returned Cadillac to rear drive. I don't know what awards they are winning left and right. As their quality levels have been on a constant slide. As far as blandness goes you're right Toyota and Honda both make bland cars too. Many new cars period are ugly or bland! Honda's truck is a joke it's a truck for those who don't want a real truck. The Tundra isn't that strong either, and the Nissan is ugly, yet honestly it's the second best truck in the fullsize market behind the F150 IMHO. GM is second in truck sales and yes they are number one in SUV sales (fullsize anyway). Yet you talk about Toyota being bland and their blandest vehicle is the Matrix, which GM turns around and sell as a Pontiac Vibe. You can get mad and tell everyone they are stupid for their opinions, yet sales at GM continue to decline and something is wrong there. Denial doesn't help that, and the fact that they just layed off 25,000 proud GM employees.

Jimster
06-25-2005, 09:17 PM
I think Filthy Sanchez put it very well, but I'll certainly add that Toyota trucks are probably the best in the world. As far as I know, the Tacoma is 99% the same as the what the rest of the world knows as a Toyota Hilux, the most reliable vehicle in the world bar none, a car favoured in the Middle East/Africa for the unbeleivable strength of thier diesel motors (There's many around parts of Africa with over 1,000,000 km's on them). Remember what they did to one on top gear? They crashed it into a tree, it got swept away to sea, it got dropped off a crane among other things and still started after all that.


Show me a Chevy/GMC pickup that is held in the same regard.


Oh and by the way, Mr Nuts, American cars are imports, this is a global forum, act like it.

drunken monkey
06-25-2005, 10:56 PM
this possibly highlights the biggest differences and possibly the worth of opinions and facts/truth.

opinions.
you're entitled to them but they may not be truth.

facts/truth.
no amount of opinion is going to change them.

Filthy Sanchez
06-26-2005, 04:53 AM
I think Filthy Sanchez put it very well, but I'll certainly add that Toyota trucks are probably the best in the world. As far as I know, the Tacoma is 99% the same as the what the rest of the world knows as a Toyota Hilux, the most reliable vehicle in the world bar none, a car favoured in the Middle East/Africa for the unbeleivable strength of thier diesel motors (There's many around parts of Africa with over 1,000,000 km's on them). Remember what they did to one on top gear? They crashed it into a tree, it got swept away to sea, it got dropped off a crane among other things and still started after all that.


Show me a Chevy/GMC pickup that is held in the same regard.


Oh and by the way, Mr Nuts, American cars are imports, this is a global forum, act like it.


Thanks Jimster,though what I mean by that is if you take all the full size trucks in America as I don't know about the rest of the world (my apologies) and right now the F150 is easily the best truck there. Engine wise I have no problem admitting Toyota's reliability factor. I have no doubt that you could physically abuse the Toyota and it would still start. It's just that a friend of mines father bought a couple for his construction business and they couldn't do half of what he does with the Ford's he now has. Not that I'm ripping on "imports" (I use that term to refer to Toyota and Nissan in this US market) I think the Nissan Titan is very close to the F150, I would say Dodge would be 3rd and you could take your pick amongst the Toyota or Chevy (GMC). Unlike Nuts though I would never claim the Toyota to be trash! The reliability factor alone is above all others, I just don't think as far as chassis strength and toughness goes Toyota didn't bring their A game to this fight.

gonenuts15792
06-26-2005, 02:42 PM
So for a real discussion about GM cars we should head over to a GM biased site!? Sorry but people who buy a Camaro, or mustang were not the same people who would buy a Dodge Daytona Chrysler learned that the hard way in the 80's. Not everyone wants RWD for certain cars though they do. Luxury car buyers are not willing to spend $40,000 on an extended economy car chassis with all the bells and whistles. GM even realized that and returned Cadillac to rear drive. I don't know what awards they are winning left and right. As their quality levels have been on a constant slide. As far as blandness goes you're right Toyota and Honda both make bland cars too. Many new cars period are ugly or bland! Honda's truck is a joke it's a truck for those who don't want a real truck. The Tundra isn't that strong either, and the Nissan is ugly, yet honestly it's the second best truck in the fullsize market behind the F150 IMHO. GM is second in truck sales and yes they are number one in SUV sales (fullsize anyway). Yet you talk about Toyota being bland and their blandest vehicle is the Matrix, which GM turns around and sell as a Pontiac Vibe. You can get mad and tell everyone they are stupid for their opinions, yet sales at GM continue to decline and something is wrong there. Denial doesn't help that, and the fact that they just layed off 25,000 proud GM employees.

I'm simply saying go to GMInsidenews to research the future vehicles that will be coming from GM.

There is a market for both RWD and FWD. GM has many RWD vehicles in the pipeline, including a Camaro like vehicle.

I don't know where you got your quality facts but you may want to double check, GMs reliability and quality scores have been increasing, not decreasing.

In terms of plant quality: Of Toyota's eight plants, their best quality ranking is 16th. Of the top 10 plants for quality, GM has eight of the top 10 and four of the top five.

I also find this very funny: GM's lowest quality-rated vehicle is the Pontiac Vibe, assembled in California by - you guessed it - Toyota.
Source for above information (http://www.tctimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14615828&BRD=2524&PAG=461&dept_id=497461&rfi=6)

Source for information below (http://motoring.iafrica.com/newsbriefs/441697.htm)

Toyota and General Motors topped the auto industry in terms of the quality of their vehicles sold in the US market, according to a survey of new owners by JD Power and Associates.

Japanese automaker Toyota earned 10 of the 18 top model awards while five GM vehicles were rated best in their class.

Also in the latest long term reliability Study GM ranked above average right up there with toyota:

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2004055a.gif

It's funny how you say toyota and honda vehicles are bland, but yet you also criticize GM for making bland cars, while you don't mention toyota's and honda's bland styling as something bad with the design.

GM sales may be declining in the U.S. (in june their sales are up to over a 30% marketshare), but in canada and other key markets like China and India GM continues to improve sales. I believe GMs sales are growing in 6 out of the 7 key sales areas in the World.

As far as the lay offs, GMs employees get some of the best health coverage in the world the cost of the coverage is more than $2,000 per GM vehicle, more than twice the amount that toyota has to deal with. The unions refuse to negotiate with GM so this is what happens GM has to cut costs. GM workers are some of the highest paid in the industry.

gonenuts15792
06-26-2005, 03:03 PM
I think Filthy Sanchez put it very well, but I'll certainly add that Toyota trucks are probably the best in the world. As far as I know, the Tacoma is 99% the same as the what the rest of the world knows as a Toyota Hilux, the most reliable vehicle in the world bar none, a car favoured in the Middle East/Africa for the unbeleivable strength of thier diesel motors (There's many around parts of Africa with over 1,000,000 km's on them). Remember what they did to one on top gear? They crashed it into a tree, it got swept away to sea, it got dropped off a crane among other things and still started after all that.


Show me a Chevy/GMC pickup that is held in the same regard.


Oh and by the way, Mr Nuts, American cars are imports, this is a global forum, act like it.


Jimster that post right there proves you have your head farther up toyotas ass than I do GM.

The Tacoma is a joke for a truck, it can't do anything that Ford or GM trucks can do, it's got a wimpy engine, the interior did not impress me one bit. The tundra is the same thing, the engine is wimpy, and it can't tow are haul much at all. I have a friend that has a tundra, he got bad gas one time and he had to have his whole engine rebuilt, I was getting the same gas with my Suburban and hmmm what do you know, I don't have a problem with it at all. What trucks and SUVs are bringing in top marks? That's right Ford and GM. In the heavy duty segment the GMC Sierra 2500HD is considered to be the best. The Small block GM engines are considered to be the best engine designs of all time, and they last forever. toyota has a long way to go before they are even half as good as the trucks offered by Ford or GM, and when the new GMT900 trucks arrive in 2006 toyota will have to play catchup even more. I never see a toyota towing a 30 foot trailer, or for that matter hauling much of anything either. But yet it's odd to see a GM or Ford truck around here without a trailer being towed behind ir or something being hauled in the back. The engines toyota offers are wimpy compared to the V8s offered by GM. It's funny to how toyota is supposed to be the greenest car company in the world, but yet their trucks and SUVs with smaller less powerful engines don't get as good of gas mileage as the bigger SUVs and trucks offered by GM that make more HP and torque than the trucks offered by toyota.

Oh and the toyota getting dropped doesn't mean anything. I don't know if you are fimiliar with the show mythbusters but on one show there was this older Cadillac that was put through some similiar test and it still ran. Hell the Cadillac engine didn't die so they took it out and put sugar, bleach, lead, paint, anything they could think of in the oil and gas, and it still ran. It took adding massive amount of bleach to the engine before it started to smoke, and it still ran for awhile before starting to smoke and then finally quiting. Don't forget this engine was from the 70s too when GM was supposedly making junk cars. So yeah woo the toyota can survive a crash, getting dropped and getting some salt water in the interior, just about any truck or car can handle abuse like that, most of it's to the body and not the engine itself. Do you know who sells the most big boat engines in the world, yup you guess it GM, engines on boats are subjected to some of the harshes environments around and the Small Block GM engines are the prefferred for this type of application too.

drunken monkey
06-26-2005, 03:17 PM
and as someone else pointed out, 'problems' reported vary greatly depending on the brand and their customers.
squeeky cabin = a problem reported.
engine failing = a problem reported.

hmm, so let's see, GM workers are the best paid and have the most expensive (which doesn't always mean the best) coverage. so when GM wants to cut costs and the unions refuse to negotiate (which they have every right to decline), they choose to simply fire employees instead of looking into their other accounts/expenditure. am i the only one who finds this practice more than slightly dubious?

gonenuts15792
06-26-2005, 04:02 PM
and as someone else pointed out, 'problems' reported vary greatly depending on the brand and their customers.
squeeky cabin = a problem reported.
engine failing = a problem reported.

hmm, so let's see, GM workers are the best paid and have the most expensive (which doesn't always mean the best) coverage. so when GM wants to cut costs and the unions refuse to negotiate (which they have every right to decline), they choose to simply fire employees instead of looking into their other accounts/expenditure. am i the only one who finds this practice more than slightly dubious?


Yes they do vary greatly that's why the surveys JD Powers sends out takes that into account. That's why trim problems and squeaks don't account for as many points off as a powertrain failure. Either way, toyota, gm and every other manufacturer has duds. As I pointed out with my friends rebuilt toyota engine.

It's called business my friend, every company has layoffs. Healthcare costs are one of the biggest problems at GM with the costs projected to triple within the next few years, something needs to be done and the unions won't allow it, this is the next best step.

ec437
06-26-2005, 04:09 PM
OK, just an FYI to everyone who keeps citing JD Power and Associates: all of their stuff is complete bull. Ask anyone in the industry.

drunken monkey
06-26-2005, 04:25 PM
'green' doesn't only mean better mpg.

gonenuts15792
06-26-2005, 06:47 PM
OK, just an FYI to everyone who keeps citing JD Power and Associates: all of their stuff is complete bull. Ask anyone in the industry.
Every Survey is bull depending on who you ask. JD Power is one of the better surveys.

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