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Intake manifold antifreeze leak


Luiggi
04-28-2005, 05:21 PM
I also have the problem of antifreeze leaks (external leaks) through from the intake manifold gaskets on my 2000 Montana. I tried with GM last year (77K miles) and this year (109K miles) but they will not help me to fix the problem. I noticed the problem a few years ago and last year I tighten the bolts on the drives side and top of the manifold and it helped a lot. This past year, I put over 30K miles on the vehicle. This year I added loctite to the bolts on the driver side. I could not get to the passenger side as I will have to remove the steering pump and I have never done the pump.

My question are: Am I wasting my time by just tightening the bolts ? Last year it seemed to help until they re-loosen - I am hoping that the loctite this year will help them keep in place.

How many bolts are on the passenger side of the manifold? I can only see one directly underneath the steering pump. Do I have to remove other items to get to any other bolts ?

Thanks much for any advice.

LC-x
06-06-2005, 10:54 PM
Your putting off the Inevitable, at some point your going to have to do the intake gasket , there is a problem solver(updated in other words) gasket. You could end up doing serious motor damage, and it isn't really that hard to do. I can knock them off in around 3.5 hours.

GTP Dad
06-07-2005, 05:46 AM
LC-x is correct. If you delay replacing the intake manifold gaskets much longer you are going to end up with some serious engine problems. Have you checked for water in the oil lately? If you haven't I would suggest that you check it now and continue to check for it often. You can ruin the engine with a crankcase full of water and oil mixture so I would suggest that you spend the money now or you will spend a whole lot more later. Around $3000 more!

cdru
06-07-2005, 08:09 AM
Changing the gasket isn't hard, just time consuming and labor intensive as you have to remove a lot of stuff. If you don't want to do it, take it to a non-dealer mechanic and the price is usually significantly less. Be sure to use OEM parts though. I used aftermarket parts my first time in orde to save a buck or two only to do it again 6 months later (and again 1 week later when my head gasket decided to go as well).

The PSP doesn't have to be removed in order to get to the passenger bolts, just detatched. There are 3 bolts that are accessable through the pulley. You may have to remove the upper intake though to slide it out of the way though. If you go that far, you might as well go all the way as you are over half way there.

don14026
06-28-2005, 08:54 PM
I may be a little late to help you out but hopefully this will help out others. GM knows that there is a problem with these gaskets and do offer a "secret" extended warrenty to these items. I was lucky enough to find out about it with my '01 before the time limit passed.
This is a copy of an email I received in regards to the gasket problem;

""
GM admits to the defect in two service bulletins. First one is
#03-06-01-010, Date March 2003. Other bulletin is #vss20030024 dated
04-MAR-2003. Tell dealer you want a goodwill policy extended to you in
compliance with these bulletins. If refused, sue in small claims court
and subpoena these bulletins. They'll settle.

""
They will cover up to 60,000 miles (100,000km).

Hope this helps somebody out there......

cdru
06-29-2005, 08:57 AM
There is no such thing as a "'secret' extended warranty". GM just chooses to throw you a bone. They are not obligated to honor any rumor of it.

VSS20030024 just states:
Adm Msg - New Intake Gasket for 3.1L LG8 and 3.4L LA1 Engines #vss20030024 - (03/04/2003)
Adm Msg -- New Intake Gasket for 3.1L LG8 and 3.4L LA1 Engines
1999-2003 Buick Century, Rendezvous; Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo, Venture; Oldsmobile Alero, Silhouette; Pontiac Aztek, Grand Am, Grand Prix and Montana

Service Manager, Parts Manager, Warranty Administrator

A new design intake gasket, P/N 89017279, has been released for service on the 3.1 and 3.4 engines and is currently available from GMSPO. The material used in the gasket has been changed in order to improve the sealing qualities of the gasket. The instruction sheet sent with the gaskets advises the technicians to replace the intake bolts with new ones that have a thread locker adhesive added. Currently the new bolts are unavailable from SPO. In the interim, the technicians are to clean the existing bolts and then apply a thread locking adhesive, P/N 12345382, and tighten to a new torque specification.

The new torque specification is a 2-step process; tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (the four middle ones) to 7 Nm (62 lb in). Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (two on each end) to 7 Nm (62 lb in). Tighten the vertical lower intake manifold bolts (the four middle ones) to 13 Nm (115 lb in). Tighten the diagonal lower intake manifold bolts (two on each end) to 25 Nm (18 lb ft).It's barely a TSB that notifies dealer shops that a new part exists with new instructions. As you can see, it says nothing about a "secret" extended warranty.

The other TSB, #03-06-01-010, if it's the one I have at home, says about the same thing but has some nifty useless pictures with it. It too doesn't say anything about a "secret" extended warranty.

Yes GM knows that there was a problem with the gasket. Yes it sucks that it effects our vehicles. No GM isn't going to replace it free for everyone. Just because some website obsessed with the problem says you can get it for free doesn't guarantee that you will. Suing in small claims court likely will get you no where either. Your best bet is to ask NICELY for GM to cover the cost if your vehicle has low milage (<60k). If you are over 60k, you are most likely SOL. Suck it up to owning a car.

gpmodelj70
06-29-2005, 09:29 AM
Yeah like CDRU said...suck it up to owning a POS poorly engineered american automobile. (I have a 2000 Montana) As for me I'm completely done with GM after this one.

shogunl
06-29-2005, 06:36 PM
I have to second gpmodelj70 !!!

Are you hearing us happy customers GM?

Maybe you can cut back on Mr. Roger Smith's 1 million/year pension payments and help us poor souls !!!!

jzimms
06-29-2005, 07:12 PM
I will put in my two cents worth and voice my opinion of disgust with GM. I have owned nothing but GM and will definately not be buying their products in the future. I would not mind fixing a vehicle that was more reliable and not having something else pop up around the next corner.

Captquegg
06-30-2005, 02:25 PM
I'm in the other boat. My '98 Trans Sport is the best vehicle I've ever owned. 228,000 miles (367, 000 Km) without a major problem. Even the little problems I've been able to fix myself. Quite frankly, the van still runs like new and Chicago traffic is no picnic.

shogunl
07-05-2005, 07:47 AM
You are a lucky man Captquegg !!
I wish I had your problem.

MontanaMan328
07-06-2005, 01:20 PM
Is it normal to have an anti-freeze odor but see no leaks? (When outside the car, engine running, a/c on, etc)

cdru
07-07-2005, 09:10 AM
Is it normal to have an anti-freeze odor but see no leaks? (When outside the car, engine running, a/c on, etc)Normal? No. I had a faulty head gasket (around cylinder 1) earlier this year and always would smell a slight "burning" antifreeze smell after a drive but only very occasionally would even a small puddle from on the ground. Depending on where it is leaking, it may leak into a valley where it just sits or just evaporate off before it can get to the ground.

I also once had a weak hose clamp on one of the heater core lines next to the firewall and would very slowly leak coolant onto the exhaust manifold cross over pipe heat shield.

You can get a UV dye at Napa autopart stores. I used this to find my clamp leak as it leaves a trace amount of dye that lights up under a UV lamp. It can also show were there may be a head gasket leak if you can get a clear view of the area. Also, it requires a real UV light. Those $4 UV "party lights" that are just a regular bulb dipped in a purple film don't do anything. You'll need a UV lamp or I use a small 18" florescent UV light.

MontanaMan328
07-26-2005, 04:21 PM
Normal? No. I had a faulty head gasket (around cylinder 1) earlier this year and always would smell a slight "burning" antifreeze smell after a drive but only very occasionally would even a small puddle from on the ground. Depending on where it is leaking, it may leak into a valley where it just sits or just evaporate off before it can get to the ground.

I also once had a weak hose clamp on one of the heater core lines next to the firewall and would very slowly leak coolant onto the exhaust manifold cross over pipe heat shield.

You can get a UV dye at Napa autopart stores. I used this to find my clamp leak as it leaves a trace amount of dye that lights up under a UV lamp. It can also show were there may be a head gasket leak if you can get a clear view of the area. Also, it requires a real UV light. Those $4 UV "party lights" that are just a regular bulb dipped in a purple film don't do anything. You'll need a UV lamp or I use a small 18" florescent UV light.

OK... I took my 2000 Ext Van to a mechanic, because I started to notice a small stain in my driveway when I parked there. I wanted them to check & be able to fix the infamous gasket (if that was indeed the problem) before the warranty ran out. According to the mechanic, it was not the gasket, but the waterpump. He said it was a 'cool leak'. It leaked more when the van was off, than when it was running. So, $244 later, I'll see how it goes from here on out... :naughty:

cdru
07-26-2005, 07:37 PM
According to the mechanic, it was not the gasket, but the waterpump. He said it was a 'cool leak'. It leaked more when the van was off, than when it was running. So, $244 later, I'll see how it goes from here on out...Water pumps have a small weep hole on the bottom of the propeller shaft. If/when a bearing or seal fails and coolant is allowed to escape, it comes out this hole. It's designed for that purpose to give an "early warning" of sorts before it becomes a real problem. However, since it was a "cold leak", this might not have been the problem. What may be more likely is a faulty gasket or a pump housing that had become slightly warped. When the engine was hot, things had expanded, forming a tighter seal. But as things cooled down, it loosens back up forming a slight leak somewhere.

Was the shop a dealer shop? $244 for a water pump sounds a little on the expensive side unless it was a dealer. An aftermarket pump costs $22. A remanufactured is even $13. Any decent mechanic should have been able to do the whole thing in under an hour.

MontanaMan328
07-26-2005, 07:52 PM
Water pumps have a small weep hole on the bottom of the propeller shaft. If/when a bearing or seal fails and coolant is allowed to escape, it comes out this hole. It's designed for that purpose to give an "early warning" of sorts before it becomes a real problem. However, since it was a "cold leak", this might not have been the problem. What may be more likely is a faulty gasket or a pump housing that had become slightly warped. When the engine was hot, things had expanded, forming a tighter seal. But as things cooled down, it loosens back up forming a slight leak somewhere.

Was the shop a dealer shop? $244 for a water pump sounds a little on the expensive side unless it was a dealer. An aftermarket pump costs $22. A remanufactured is even $13. Any decent mechanic should have been able to do the whole thing in under an hour.

It was a used car dealer/auto mechanic shop. (Not the place where I purchased the van)

I had no idea that the parts are that cheap... :eek7:

GMCritic
07-27-2005, 06:31 PM
Went out to my van this weekend and saw a little puddle of orange liquid on the ground.... sigh.... Took it to the dealership and was told it's the lower intake manifold gasket. Called Pontiac and they wouldn't offer any assistance (even though the Montana only has 40,000 miles on it, and this is a known problem). Dealership wants over $900.00 (oil change and radiator flush included in the price). I called a local reputable shop and they'll do the same service for $100.00 less.

Let's see... transmission went out in April, $2,500.00. Lower intake manifold gasket goes out in July, $800.00....

I'm thinking about buying a two year extended warranty for $1,200.00... At this rate I'll save myself a few $$$$$....

ThomThom
12-22-2005, 01:06 PM
Just wanted to say thank you for the information. I had the same problem with my Alero at 27K miles. My mechanic hinted that this was a known problem and your description matched perfectly.

I've sent GMLink.com an email, with the VSS number, asking how to gain compensation for the design flaw. I won't hold my breath but it never hurts to ask.

Anyway, thanks again.

dbudworth
12-22-2005, 01:41 PM
Let me know what you find out with this ThomThom. We had the head gasket go out 2 weeks ago, called GM and complained very politely to them. They covered 50% of the bill, still $800 out of our pocket that is GM's fault in the first place. I'm just wondering if there is a way to get reimbursed for the whole bill?

fscarpelli
12-29-2005, 08:39 PM
PLEASE READ MY THREAD ON THE CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT AFFECTING YOUR CAR!!









I also have the problem of antifreeze leaks (external leaks) through from the intake manifold gaskets on my 2000 Montana. I tried with GM last year (77K miles) and this year (109K miles) but they will not help me to fix the problem. I noticed the problem a few years ago and last year I tighten the bolts on the drives side and top of the manifold and it helped a lot. This past year, I put over 30K miles on the vehicle. This year I added loctite to the bolts on the driver side. I could not get to the passenger side as I will have to remove the steering pump and I have never done the pump.

My question are: Am I wasting my time by just tightening the bolts ? Last year it seemed to help until they re-loosen - I am hoping that the loctite this year will help them keep in place.

How many bolts are on the passenger side of the manifold? I can only see one directly underneath the steering pump. Do I have to remove other items to get to any other bolts ?

Thanks much for any advice.

ThomThom
01-10-2006, 01:31 PM
It turned out to be the head gasket and not the intake manifold gasket. But both have been replaced now. However, I can't very well make the claim because the bill doesn't reflect the manifold gasket.

73stingray
07-07-2008, 05:03 PM
I am having the same intake gasket leak on my 99 grand am(3.4l) now. Does anyone know if this is problem is just a poorly designed gasket or is it a dex-cool issue as well? I'm thinking after I replace this I am going to get the cooling system fluched and replace it with the new yellow universal stuff.
Also do the head gaskets usually need to get replaced in these cases, or is it just the lower intake manifold? I've never noticed any milkshake in the oil.

sorry I just noticed this is a montana forum, but its the same engine issue. thanks for any help I can get

rkvons
07-08-2008, 12:22 PM
I had a 99 grand am repaired for a LIM gasket leak. The mechanic showed me a picture of the gasket and why it was defective from the start. He repaired it for me. It was causing the milkshake effect.

Jrs3800
07-08-2008, 01:06 PM
Just a little note and a bit of research if you guys will be working on a 3400 in the U body...

Gm has an updated gasket... But its still made of the Nylon 66..

Felpro has an updated gasket that uses an aluminum carrier.... If you have to do this Job I highly recommend that you use the Fel Pro aluminum gaskets... They are expensive, but may keep you from doing the job again..

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